Monday, August 22, 2005

The Drozd - a CO2 submachine gun

by B.B. Pelletier


Russian "bumblebee" Drozd submachine gun is exciting and accurate.


Today, we'll look at something a little different. Full-auto airguns are very rare because soft lead pellets don't do well in rapidly cycling feed mechanisms. There have been a few "automatic" BB guns, most working on the low-pressure siphon principle you learned in high school science. During World War II, a number of full-auto airguns were built as military trainers. Some of them shot BBs, but a few, like the Hotpoint trainer, shot 3/8" bakelite balls that were the ancestors of today's 6mm airsoft BB.

Flight of the bumblebee
Four years ago, the Russian firm Baikal brought a wicked-looking airgun to the SHOT Show in Las Vegas. It was all black and looked like a military submachine gun. It fired .177 round lead balls, like H&N round balls or Gamo round balls, and it was full-auto with a selector switch. Because the power supply is CO2, the gun cannot fire a sustained burst without freezing, so they designed it to be either a single-shot, a three-round burst or a six-round burst. They also regulated the firing solenoid to three different rates of fire.

The gun was a hit at the show, but many buyers felt it looked too threatening, so Baikal re-skinned it with a bright yellow plastic outer shell for the next year's show. The contrasting yellow and black, plus the sound of the gun firing reminded them of a bumblebee, so they named it that - in Russian, of course. Hence, the Drozd.

Accurate and powerful!
The Drozd is very powerful when the correct ammo is used. At 60 feet, it buries balls two diameters deep in pine wood. When aimed and in the single-shot mode, which is really semiauto because the gun is electrically cocked, it will group on a nickel at 10 meters. That's due to the wonderful rifled barrel it has.

Be careful!
Unfortunately, the importer, EAA, had Baikal include a small package of steel BBs with every gun, even though it is not meant for them. The owner's manual doesn't specify lead or steel anywhere except in one warning reference up front, where it notes that lead is known to California to be a threat to pregnant women. The repairman at EAA told me he gets guns back all the time with steel BBs jammed in their mechanism. At best, the BBs will ruin the finely rifled bore. To keep your gun working smoothly, use nothing but lead balls in your gun.

Operation
The gun is powered by six AA batteries stored in front of the frame under the muzzle. The 30-round magazine also holds the single CO2 powerlet that provides the firing force for every shot. The Drozd is very similar to an auto-electric airsoft gun, except that it's many times more powerful and accurate than airsoft.

Saftey
THIS IS NOT A GUN TO SHOOT AT PEOPLE OR ANIMALS!
It will kill small animals and it will penetrate deeply into flesh, so treat it like a firearm. Shoot only into a safe trap and NOT INTO CRUMPLED NEWSPAPERS. The Drozd will shoot right through newspaper with the first few shots.

If you'd like to liven up your airgunning experience, this is one of the neatest guns to come 'round in a long time. It's worth a try.

168 Comments:

At August 22, 2005 8:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The ad for the Drozhd at Pyramyd specifies steel bb's. No mention of lead balls. ??

 
At August 22, 2005 6:14 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

David,

You'll have to trust me on this one. The Drozd has a .177 caliber rifled steel barrel that is inappropriate for steel BBs. The importer, EAA, apparently asks IZH to send them in with a pack of steel BBs in the box, like I mentioned in the post. I believe that is what confuses retailers about what ammo to use.

The repairman at EAA definitely told me he gets Drozds back with steel BBs jammed in them, and he acknowledged that a .177 lead ball is the correct ammo to use.

Also, in the owner's manual, they refer to lead as a dangerous substance in the warnings section up front. Why do that if you're only shooting steel?

The Makarov pistol went the same way. Rifled steel barrel and EAA had them pack steel BBs in the box. It confused a lot of dealers.

I have tested the Drozd with .177 lead balls. It's both powerful and accurate. If it were really a BB gun, the larger lead ball would jam in the bore.

B.B.

 
At August 22, 2005 11:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually "Drozd" in Russian means a bird - "Thrush" not a bumblebee. Those are great! Looks like PyramydAir is reading this blog :-) I can see they already added the round lead balls to the recommended ammo...

 
At August 23, 2005 4:45 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Thanks for the correction. I had just assumed it meant bumblebee.

Yes, I do believe Pyramyd reads this blog. And remember, they have tens of thousands of pages on their site, so the one I comment on is just a very small part of the whole picture.

Thanks again,

B.B.

 
At September 01, 2005 11:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

HOW GOOD CAN IT BE IF IT ONLY HOLDS
30 RNDS. DESIGN A 60 OR 100 RND MAG. THEN IT WILL BE WORTH THE MONEY. PEOPLE ARE SO QUICK TO BUY THE FIRST THING ON THE MARKET. THEN
THE INDUSTRY GETS SMART AND UPGRADES.

 
At September 12, 2005 12:46 PM, Blogger wgcherokee said...

I wonder how loud this thing is. I read some reviews online. Most people say that it will draw attention if you plink in the backyard. There are a very few others that say the gun is quiet (but maybe they're comparing it to firearms). I live within the city limits on a third of an acre lot, and with people being so sensitive to guns these days I do not want the police knocking on my door :)

 
At September 12, 2005 6:18 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

wgcherokee,

The Drozd is quiet compared to a .22 rimfire, but being CO2 it is louder than a spring rifle. I shot it in my backyard without a problem, but I wouldn't shoot it a lot there.

B.B.

 
At November 05, 2005 11:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The gun isnt that loud, from a distence it sounds like a woodpecker or someone hammering a nail into some wood. HEY BB PELITIER could you tell me were to by the correct BBs for the Drozd. Mine is infact jamming now and lost it's accuracey becasue of that dam company giving me the wrong BB'S. And you now what makes me really mad I tried to call them and they wont return my messages or anything. Please reply because i stopped shooting my gun untill i have the right BB's.

 
At November 23, 2005 2:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys, real intrested in this gun for a Varmit control control gun. I need to remove some Garden Dwellers in fairly close ranges 55ft. I believe this may be fun way to conrtol this issue. I was going to put a Lazer on this guy and clear out my problems. My questions is that of power at this rang. If send 3 burst rounds at my target will it have the knock down power to take out my critters. Please advise.

thanks,

 
At November 23, 2005 3:20 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Drozd for pests control,

You are stretching the limit at 55 feet with an 8-grain lead ball. The Drozd is powerful and would probably take a rat to that range, but not a squirrel or cottontail.

Remember that because the Drozd is powered by CO2 all your shooting has to be done at 60 degrees F or higher. Less than that and you will have severe power dropoff - especially in the burst mode.

I would practice shooting Necco wafers at the range you intend hunting. When you can bust a wafer on command with a three-shot burst, you are ready to try on living things.

B.B.

 
At November 23, 2005 6:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi, when I was a kid some of the guys had Benjamin air rifles and they used a lead BB. I have one of these that has new seals put in and it woeks great, I would like to know where I can get some of the lead .177 BB's. Thank you.
Jack

 
At November 23, 2005 7:01 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Lead BBs,

If you want .177 balls you are in luck. This website has three different brands:

www.pyramydair.com

click on ammo, then click .177 round balls.

There seems to be a worldwide shortage of .22-caliber balls at present, but I'm sure it will work itself out in time.

B.B.

 
At November 23, 2005 7:01 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At November 23, 2005 8:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB thanks for your comment on the Varmit hunting with the DROZD. How about 35' could I wipe a few squirles and cotton tails? I would assume that I should be able to fill them up with a few led balls and if it is fairly accurate at this range so I heard I should be able to put a spot lazer on them and run them out of town.

Iwill be using this in the summer here in MN USA and it gets fairly warm so I should have some power. Let me put it this way if can you rip a can appart at this range? One last question when you turn the feeder on is it noisy? prior to shooting the gun?

 
At November 24, 2005 8:04 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Drozd for Minn.,

I like 35 feet better than 55. There is no noise until you pull the trigger. The motor works only on demand and you never hear it over the sound of the discharge.

I'd say get a Drozd. I think you will enjoy it!

B.B.

 
At November 24, 2005 10:00 PM, Blogger b.s. jimmy said...

I own this gun and all i can say is GET YOUR HANDS ON ONE NOW!!!! This is the only automatic airgun i know of, or that works correctly, and i have heard recent discussion USA will not be importing more from Russia for some reason. This is NOT a kids toy. I'm surprised its still allowed to be sold. The specs put its FPS at 350-375 i have seen but its more in the range of 500-550 FPS. As for the small clip, you can reload in about 30 seconds with the awesome neat little speed loader it comes with, and if you wanna shelf out another 40 bucks and i recommened you do,, you can get a new clip and have twice the fun.

This is truly a one of a kind airgun no one should miss. And yes to whoever it was,,, this will tear whatever varmints you got up in your yard HEHEHE

 
At November 25, 2005 8:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks guys, I am going to get one for myself and put it under the tree so the wife can't say anything. Check out this video link. Gun looks pretty cool.

http://media.putfile.com/PickofCompiled

 
At November 27, 2005 2:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can the drozd be mounted with the Red dot scope? BSA RD30 SCOPE

 
At November 27, 2005 4:44 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Red dot on Drozd,

The Drozd comes with a scope rail, and that means an 11mm rail. The picture looks like the BSA RD30 has an 11mm base. The only other kind it could be is a Weaver. I have asked Pyramyd Air to check on this for you because they have the products to look at.

In short, I believe it can, but let's let Pyramyd tell us both.

B.B.

 
At December 01, 2005 3:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hello
I have a local sporting goods store and had asked the sale guy do they have a lead bbs ammo. He said he never heard of lead bbs and recommend me the Copperhead Premium 6000ct .177 BBs. Would you know this is a lead bbs? because it doesnt said what type on the label. the sporting goods store is dicks sporting goods and Dunham sporting goods.
thanks

 
At December 01, 2005 4:03 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Crosman Copperhead BBs are steel. Take a magnet to them if you wan to test them.

Right here on nthis website:

www.Pyramydair.com

they sell three differeent brands of lead balls (they are not BBs). Gamo, Beeman and H&N. The Beemans are the least expensive at this time.

B.B.

 
At December 03, 2005 6:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

it says right on this site the Crossman Copperhead are copper coated lead bbs. click on the product and read the description.

 
At December 04, 2005 9:20 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

You're right! That is what it says.

I believe this description (and it's on more than one package) is incorrect.

I am notifying Pyramyd Air to check this out and tell me if Crosman Copperhead BBs are lead ot steel. I have always believed they were steel, and the older Crosman Copperhead BBs I have ARE steel, but I don't have a new package to confirm that they still are.

Heck, I'm going to Wally World today with a magnet and I will test a Copperhead package there!

I will get back to you in this posting!

Thanks,

B.B.

 
At December 04, 2005 10:05 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

The product description is incorrect. I have confirmed that Crosman makes only steel BBs. It says that right on the package, which I obtained from Crosman.

I think the mixup was due to sloppy wording. Crosman calls their BBs copper "coated," when, as steel, they are plated. Lead balls must be coated, but steel is always plated. Probably some newbie in the company didn't see a difference between plating and coating and thought coating sounded more descriptive. That is usually the case.

Anyway, FOR SURE, Crosman Coppergead BBs are copper PLATED steel.

Thanks for pointing this out. I will inform Pyramyd Air.

B.B.

 
At December 31, 2005 12:38 AM, Anonymous Ben said...

I have a Drozd, and was interested in the lead BB suggestion, particularly in an AUTOMATIC sytem.

I called EAA and got thru to a repair tech, and asked him about this. He said not to use lead BBs. On further questioning he said that they will deform in the feeding process and jam. He then instructed me to not "go on the Internet, it's all bunk". While he may have a point, I'm going to disregard the last statement.

So why exactly is a .177 rifled steel barrel inappropriate for steel BBs? Aren't BB guns usually fitted with .177 rifled steel barrels?

Ben

 
At December 31, 2005 10:28 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Ben,

I was told exactly the opposite by the EAA repair tech. It seems the company has taken stock of the situation.

A gun made for BOTH BBs and pellets does not use normal rifling. They use a hexagonal bore section that still leaks around the smaller BB, but does not get ruined when it passes through.

The Drozd owner's manual has a warning about LEAD being known as a dangerous substance to the state of California. Why would that be in the manual if the gun shot only steel BBs?

Also, I have tested the gun with both lead and steel. With steel it shoots all over the place, where with lead it is VERY accurate.

As for the jamming comment, I have nothing. The EAA tech told me all the guns that jammed were doing so with steel, which is what I reported.

B.B.

 
At December 31, 2005 3:28 PM, Anonymous Ben said...

I don't know. I contacted a guy named Vance who put together a CD on modding the Drozd. He wrote me that "[Gamos]are not very successful in the Drozd because they are so soft. Some of the guys have purchased bird shot which seems to work bgetter but most just put up with using steel BB's for the best dependability. The problem with the lead BB's is two fold: 1. They are expensive as the dickens. 2. The very nature of the Drozd magazine design which holds the 30 rounds vertically in the "train" under spring tension. The top BB is nestled in a slight depression and when the valve is struck by the electromagnet it forces the top BB down and into the breach. This forces all remaining BB's downward quite violently as well with each shot. They rapidly becomes scored, gouged, flattened, and otherwise tweaked out of shape and will often jam in the magazine or in the barrel...not good. A very few have had no trouble using them but I've NEVER been successful in ay of my own guns and quit using them. Giver 'er a go. The worst that can happen is you'll have to clear them out."

 
At December 31, 2005 4:29 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Ben,

I sounds like the guy you spoke to knew something about the gun. That's good.

I tested two different Drozd guns with lead and had no problems. With steel, however, they shot all over the place.

The power with lead was much improved and so was the accuracy. I still have a problem shooting .172-caliber steel BBs in a .177 caliber rifled barrel. Why do the Russians go to the trouble of rifling the gun if all it's supposed to shoot is steel? That makes no sense at all.

The Germans have a target gallery gun that is smoothbore and shoots ball bearings. It's the Diana model 30. It is quite accurate. And the Daisy 499 is also very accurate without rifling. It doesn't take rifling to shoot steel BBs. So why do it?

There is something strange about all of this.

B.B.

 
At December 31, 2005 11:32 PM, Anonymous Ben said...

BB, I agree. The more I've read up on this, the more it sounds like lead balls would do well thru the barrel, but the feed system is another matter. I ordered the CD for a few bucks from Vance, it might shed light, I dunno. Supposed to contain mods about increasing ROF, adding a FA switch to the burst mode, converting to paintball tanks, barrel extensions, how to best dye the yello parts, and all sorts of things. I proably won't do any of them, except maybe change the yellow to OD green, but should be worth a look.

Cheers,
Ben

 
At January 05, 2006 1:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well guys I just ordered my gun and I going to shot lead through it to begin with and I will report back with how it performs. I bought the Gamo balls. I believe the best way to find out is to just give it a run. I would rather use the lead in a rifled barrel if I can and it one would think it would fire at a better velocitty. I will let you all know. I do plan on adding the tank for an air source as well as an extended barrel when one becomes available. I can't believe someone is selling them already. Longer barrel would increase the power well enough to clear out the Garden in one sweep:)

 
At January 08, 2006 11:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I got the gun and she works fairly nicely. Little louder then expected. Sounds like a nail gun. Gamo balls shoot good through it but you really have to be careful with the little guys they bend/dent out of shape real easy. I can see if your not how they could jam the gun because they are so soft. Very expensive as well holly crap. 5 bucks for 250. I would like somebody to explain how to unjam one if it does happen to me. I am assuming it would just get lodged in the barrel and i could poke it out with a gun cleaner rod. I plan on shooting lead because they are very accurate and I don't want to wreck the rifling in the barrel. I put a scope on the gun right away and at 35 feet I am getting about silver dollar grouping. This is shooting one at a time and you will get some flyers. Auto I can eat up a paper plate very quickly. Over all fairly accurate though for CO2 BB Gun. Eats the CO2 like it is free!!! Need to put a paint ball tank on this ASAP. Sending off for the CD I can't believe somebody isn't marketing this already! The clips are already seperate!! Would also like a longer barrel. Gun shoot clear through a 1/8 sheet of wood with no problems at 35 feet. Has power and I am guessing enough to take out the Garden criters.

Keep on eye on the net for barrels for this gun. A little longer barrel and a tank for air and you would have a real 100% winner. Overall satisfied with the purchase. Santa was good even though I had to wait a week after Xmas to get it. Please post a cheaper place to buy lead balls. I can see right now this summer I will need a buck load of them.

 
At January 09, 2006 8:17 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Gamo balls,

Thank you for such a detailed report. That's how we all learn.

As far as unjamming, I would do it the way you suggest. I never had a problem, though.

If you buy your Gamo balls in quantity from Pyramyd Air I bet you can save some money. And they are already selling the Beeman Perfect Rounds (H&N) for a couple dollars less!

B.B.

 
At January 11, 2006 10:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where can one order the CD from "Vance". For the upgrades and such....

 
At January 13, 2006 12:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just ordered this gun. Where can I find the modifications CD that some people have mentioned?

 
At February 08, 2006 7:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

c'mon over to the Drozd forum:
http://azure.bbboy.net/straferbbmachinegunownersgroup-viewforum?forum=10

 
At February 20, 2006 1:24 AM, Anonymous Yarzak said...

Other manufacturers, besides IZH, have barrels apparently capable of steel on steel, the following from the Daisy website "The 617X features a truly unique 6-shot rotary clip capable of housing .177 (4.5mm) Pellets or BBs. Six shots can be fired from this CO2 powered semi-automatic as fast as the trigger can be pulled. The rapid fire fun makes it the perfect target training gun for any application. The maximum shooting distance of the 617X is 280 yards with a maximum muzzle velocity of 485fps from a rifled steel barrel." Other manufacturers rifled barrels require the lead BBs ie Gamo P-23.

BB have you figured this out??

Ray

BTW-
How does one pronounce Drozd?
& per previous commenter its worth a kool look @

http://azure.bbboy.net/straferbbmachinegunownersgroup-viewforum?forum=10

 
At February 20, 2006 1:36 AM, Anonymous Yarzak said...

Almost forgot, not sure how I found this but check it out:

http://media.putfile.com/PickofCompiled

Ray

 
At February 20, 2006 7:56 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Ray,

The steel barrels that can handle both pellets and BBs are usually hexagonal rather than lands and grooves. It works, but the excessive windage between the BB and the bore makes for poor accuracy.

B.B.

 
At March 02, 2006 1:14 AM, Blogger richard said...

does anyone do repairs to the drozd, EAA were total jerks about fixing mine. I can be contacted at zmason@mindspring.com

 
At March 07, 2006 11:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i just ordered a drozd,ive converted my condor to an external tank and use helium to give me 1750fps!takes me out to 200yards! does anybody have a plan on how to convert the drozd to an external tank? you can write me at krell44@aol.com

 
At March 07, 2006 8:31 PM, Anonymous McCyberChris said...

Hi, I live in the UK, and have had the drozd for a few months now. Im feeling a bit cheated, as the dealer sold it for me for £200, which is probably way too expensive. The version I have is only semi auto. Does anybody know how to convert it to fire fully auto or in a burst fire atleast!

Cheers

mc_cyberchris@hotmail.com

 
At March 08, 2006 8:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

where can i get this vidio on convervions to the drozd?
krell44@aol.com

 
At March 20, 2006 6:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello. I live in nj and i wanted to know if i need to have a permit for them to send me this gun. or if im not allowed at all :).
Thank
You

 
At March 21, 2006 7:47 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

The state of New Jersey requires you to purchase airguns through licensed gun dealers, after you obtain an airgun permit. I imagine your local police department gets involved, at some point.

B.B.

 
At March 24, 2006 8:22 PM, Blogger sgtusarmy said...

I recently purchased a Drozd and absolutly love it! a couple of the short comings that i have read on web reviews stated that the butt stock of the gun came off too easily i have found a simple solution to this. a chemical spray glue made by the 3M company called super 77. when this glue is sprayed it dries to a semi tacky substance texture perfect for holding the butt stock and butt stock extender in place semi permanantly. the only question i have is how to dye it black, I dont want to use standard spray paint because obviously it would rub off over a short period of time, can somone help me with this?

 
At March 24, 2006 8:23 PM, Blogger sgtusarmy said...

I recently purchased a Drozd and absolutly love it! a couple of the short comings that i have read on web reviews stated that the butt stock of the gun came off too easily i have found a simple solution to this. a chemical spray glue made by the 3M company called super 77. when this glue is sprayed it dries to a semi tacky substance texture perfect for holding the butt stock and butt stock extender in place semi permanantly. the only question i have is how to dye it black, I dont want to use standard spray paint because obviously it would rub off over a short period of time, can somone help me with this?

 
At March 24, 2006 10:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do not understand, Could you just hold down the trigger on this bb gun and have all of the BB's shoot out like a fully automatic gun. Some websights say that it is Semi- Auto and other say that it is fully-auto.

Please replly by simple leaving a comment,
THANX!!!

 
At March 25, 2006 8:29 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

The Drozd is full-auto, but only burst-fire. That means full-auto for a limited number of shots (3 or 6, as it turns out). That prevents the CO2 that powers the BBs from freezing the gun's action.

There are firearms with burst-fire full-auto, too, so this is a legitimate firing mode.

B.B.

 
At March 25, 2006 9:18 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for answering my question. Do you happen to know of any other fully auto BB Guns that shoot .177 bb's?

 
At March 25, 2006 4:12 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

I don't know of any other BB guns that shoot full auto, but there was a Gatling gun that did. As I recall it put out 4000 to 6000 BBs a minute. It was hand-held, smaller than a mini gun, but modeled after one, and it had to use air to let the mechanism continue to run without freezing. The cost was in the $2,500 region and you might still find one on an aution site..

Of course it shot steel BBs, which are not .177. They are about 0.172 at most. The only .177 balls that exist to my knowledge are round lead balls made by H&N and the Shark company.

B.B.

 
At March 25, 2006 6:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't afford that kind of deal. I am probably going to get the Drozd. thanx for the help you have given me. By the way, have you been watching LSU lately? they beet Duke and then beet Texas!!!

 
At April 20, 2006 9:21 PM, Anonymous Reaper said...

Could anyone please tell me if .177 COPPER PLATED steel BB will work with the Drozd?

 
At April 21, 2006 7:05 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Reaper,

You CAN shoot steel BBs in the Drozd, but they will destroy the rifling in the barrel.

B.B.

 
At April 30, 2006 11:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, guys I just purchased two items for my drodze. 14 inch riffled barrel extention and a bulk co2 adapter. I have read all over that the longer barrel will increase it to around 650 fps. The bulk co2 adapter is here: http://www.cooper-t.com/airguns2.html. I plan on slapen a 9oz paintball tank on it. I will post back and let everyone know how it improves the gun. I do not and will not shoot steel through this gun. Barrel riffling is what makes this gun worth the money. Even with a super short barrel it accurate for BB gun. I know this will improve with the new barrel. My main funtion of this gun is to take care of some yard diggers that I have running around. It brings a whole new definition to shock and yaw. The 12 gram co2 is a joke. The first sleave and then power starts to drop off quite a bit. Overall a very cool fun gun to own. If you want to be that guy that has something nobody else does this is it. I would break in the nieghbors though. I told mine I am building a Paintball gun. In fact I left the gun that goofy yellow on purpose no need to scare anyone. It just a toy after all :) They see me sweeping my yard with this thing off my deck and think nothing of it.

 
At May 01, 2006 12:07 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh ya forgot to mention if you are the guy that keeps spending the 4 bucks to shoot the star out and you know you can never win but you do it anyway because you can't help yourself. This is the gun for you. Do be careful this gun will do damage. It is not an air soft gun. It will rip a can in half with no problems. Common sense applies. Shoot down towards the ground from an elevated position if possible. Be aware of what is beyond your shot. People that do stupid things with this will wreck it for us all. If you the have to read the directions to use your toaster oven or blender please buy something else.

If you have tried chemicals, traps, and still have problems with the stripped rodents that leave mounds of crap in yard. This will solve your problems. I am not sure but I think thier friends leave just out of fear.

 
At May 06, 2006 3:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

if you want a full auto bb gun that shoots steel bbs (172)cal you can do what i did i made one for my self and it shoots 12,000 rounds per min use,s compressed air so it wont freez up and i have 125 round mags for it :) hehehe.

 
At May 17, 2006 1:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the best source of a bulk tank supply to add to my new DROZD toy? I also found a BSA laser on ebay. Is it worth 20.00 for this laser sight.Any thing else I'm missing?

 
At May 19, 2006 9:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just bought this and an extra mag. THe only upgrade I'd be interested in is the CO2 tank adapter since I play so much paintball anyway. But I found these and thought they would be the best solution for this gun. Copper coated lead BB's:

ROUND BALL Copper (4.50 mm) by Haendler & Natermann

https://pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/pellet.pl?pellet_id=37

 
At May 19, 2006 9:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

At May 01, 2006 1:07 AM, Anonymous said...
Oh ya forgot to mention if you are the guy that keeps spending the 4 bucks to shoot the star out and you know you can never win but you do it anyway because you can't help yourself. This is the gun for you.


To anonymous.... You CAN shoot the star out...start your shots at the BOTTOM (just below the star) and shoot a circle AROUND it. The secret is to "cut" the star out, not obliterate it.

 
At July 02, 2006 12:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to clarify a few things about
the Drozd, specifically regarding the
ammo to shoot with this gun. First,
without question steel BB's will severely
damage the counter bore in the barrel's
breech after only 5-6 thousand rounds.
The reason is not so much the wear and
tear on the rifling as it is the valve head on the magazine which has a small'indent' at the top in order to 'capture' the BB in battery for each shot. Without this indent, the BB's would simply roll out the barrel without being fired. When the gun is fired, the air forces the BB out of 'battery' at an angle which is not aligned with the barrel. The BB then just ricochet's into the bore. Successive BB's simply hammer away at the barrel breech until they ultimately cause the barrel to become unrepairable, and nearly impossible to remove.

Lead BB's will not destroy the barrel,
but do create a whole new set of problems for this gun. First, the 'indent' in the valve body severely distorts the soft lead balls prior to entering the rifling, and secondly the impact on the forcing cone or 'counter bore' ahead of the rifling further distorts them. Add to this the fact that due to the rapid rate of fire, the BB's become pretty banged up just working up through the
magazine. The net result is progressively decreasing accuracy through the full 30 shots. The first
three might group on a nickel at 50',
after that they can stray up to a foot!

Another issue with the lead BB's is the
fact that the factory barrel is rifled
to .174 land to land, and not to American .177 bore diameter. This means the standard .177 (4.5mm) round lead balls available in this country are even further distorted after passing through this barrel. Perhaps PyramidAir could make some arrangements
to stock some of the 4.4mm H&N lead ball listed in their European catalog
to help with this problem.

The solutions to making the gun work
accurately with lead ball involve
rebarreling to .177, and modifying the magazine to minimize the damage to the BB's if you hope to maintain accuracy.
Lead BB's also stick in the barrel when
CO2 pressures drop low enough. I've
concluded that 30 rounds is about it
for a cartridge if you don't want a
fouled barrel.

This is a fun gun to shoot...just needs
the right ammo/barrel combination to
work right.

 
At July 11, 2006 9:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've done a conversion of drozd to full auto (not bursts). vic20owner@yahoo.com

 
At August 06, 2006 11:15 AM, Blogger benoit said...

i totally agree with you when it comes to rebarreling the drozd to a perfect .177, but how to avoit the gamo lead bbs to be indented or deformed while in the magazine ??? and i still cant understand how mr. pelletier shoots lead bbs from his drozd with no problem..

do you think that lead bbs diameters slightly vary according to their brand ( personnaly i use gamo lead balls)???
the same problem arises with the baikal mp654 makarov , and some people resolved the problem by making sure that the first bb to be inserted in the magazine is steel and then the others can be lead bbs , and by doing this you avoid jamming....i tried it and still got jammed bbs...i'm lost...
please give me your comment

thanks

 
At August 23, 2006 5:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi BB,
I just purchased a Drodz and am looking to add either a lazer or red dot, tactical light or scope on the gun. I am doing many mods to the gun including a longer barrel for accuracy at distance what would be my best move to complement it? I am also consitering the Gammo Varmit Hunter kit for Shadow... what do you think my best option is?

 
At September 10, 2006 10:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You guys are saying shoot this lead ball and some are saying shoot steel bb. Does anyone out there know how to read an owners manual? It says right in the manual under Basic Data 2.1 the gun is disigned to use 4.5mm steel bb intended for air weapon.

 
At September 11, 2006 5:19 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

The owners manual was written by EAA, the importer. There is no such thing as a 4.5mm steel BB. They are 4.3mm, but the person who wrote the manual doesn't know that.

The manual also contains a warning against the dangers of lead. Why put that in a manual for a BB gun?

This gun is rifled in such a way that ONLY lead is to be used. The bore is also troo large for 4.3mm.

Those are the reasons we say to use lead, besides the fact that lead works and steel jams the gun. Lead is accurate and steel isn't. Lead is powerful and steel is less so.

B.B.

 
At September 13, 2006 10:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey BB,

Just got a DROZB and can't get the Crossman CO2 cartridge in. The steel plunger from the bottom of the mag is just a bit tall. When I close the lever to lock the CO2 it just leaks. Anyone reported this? I guess I could file it down or the CO2 cartiage a bit. Any suggestions?

 
At September 13, 2006 11:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nevermind! I figured it out, I am such a dummy. Did not have the CO2 lever all the way down..Just shot 2 full mags..shoots great will do more tests over the weekend I am impressed.

 
At October 06, 2006 3:29 PM, Anonymous Thomas Washington said...

I hope people are still checking this but here's my problem I also had a hard time with the crossman C02 cartridges. they were a bit too long it seemed but I finally got it in and locked it in place no problem. Until recently it worked great, now everytime I put one in the clip it leaks c02 out pretty bad. hissing the whole time. and my other clip does the same thing, any suggestions on how to fix this problem? I really don't want to have to buy new clips since they're like 50 dollars each or something around that.

 
At October 06, 2006 4:16 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Thomas,

We check all the blog postings all the time.

If the CO2 is coming out fast that's a sign of a torn seal. From your description, I suspest the flat seal that the powerlet goes against.

There is no easy fix for this. The seal has to be replaced. But I wonder why you had difficulty inserting the powerlets to begin with. I hope you didn't use nitrogen cylinders because they will dry out the seals inside the gun.

Have you been putting a drop of perllgunoil on the tip of every new powerlet? That oil (and ONLY that oil) lubricates all the internal seals of your gun.

Pyramyd Air can repair your two magazines so they don't leak. Call them at 888-262-4867.

Also they are now offering an adaptor to run your Drozd on a paintball tank instead of powerlets.

B.B.

 
At October 06, 2006 11:05 PM, Anonymous Thomas Washington said...

I'm using C02 powerlets but the Crossman brand tanks are just a tiny bit longer than the Daisy brand ones.

one of them is working again now. I think it may just be the C02 cartridge

thanks for telling me about the perllgunoil I'll definately look into that.

Thanks for your time!

Thomas

 
At October 07, 2006 3:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,
Did you ever try one of those freon powered "m-19a" or "annihilator" guns from the '70s or '80's?

 
At October 08, 2006 10:06 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

You are referring to the Larc. No, I never tried one, but I've seen a few shot. They work well and are very quiet.

B.B.

 
At October 09, 2006 2:16 PM, Anonymous Shukin said...

I have had issues with Crossman CO2 as well, What I do now is I prechceck each CO2 capsule with a quick check to see if they fit in the Drozd Magazine or not. It is not consistant with the Crossmand brand because in a case of 40 only one is 4 did not fit. The ones that do not fit work great in my other CO2 pistols with more room. Yes it is true there is a deffinate inconsistancy in size from cartridge to cartride from Crossman. I have used other brands without incident.

 
At October 09, 2006 3:26 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Shukin,

Thanks for the heads up.

B.B.

 
At October 17, 2006 11:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to purchase a Drozd, but discussions like this confuse me.

“B.B. Pelletier said...
You'll have to trust me on this one. The Drozd has a .177 caliber rifled steel barrel that is inappropriate for steel BBs
The repairman at EAA definitely told me he gets Drozds back with steel BBs jammed in them, and he acknowledged that a .177 lead ball is the correct ammo to use.”

Then why does the manual specifically say to use steel balls? Why should a manufacturer make such a fundamental error?

“Also, in the owner's manual, they refer to lead as a dangerous substance in the warnings section up front. Why do that if you're only shooting steel?”

Well, warnings are dictated by law. Not logic. Warnings such a health and safety tend to be included because laws state all products of a certain type must have certain warnings.
By the same logic of the manual being right, why wouldn’t the manual say lead OR steel if that was the real intension?

And that warning is irrelevant to the rest of the world. It seems that it is only in the US version of the manual. The original manufacturer’s manual can be found here: http://www.baikalinc.ru/en/company/123.html
Says absolutely nothing about lead. ONLY steel.

And I don’t know where one anonymous poster came up with the reference to 4.4mm bbs. The manual clearly says 4.5mm.

I like the idea of the Drozd, but have no desire to end up with a lemon that is picky with ammo or requires much more expensive ammo such as the lead or steel balls.

Can anyone point to a source that gives the tolerances and differences between .177 steel and .177 lead?

Then another little inconsistency in this discussion copper plated/coated balls. Seeing as the copper would be interacting with the rifling, what would it matter if the internal metal were lead or steel?

 
At October 17, 2006 12:43 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Steel balls,

Okay, once again, steel BBs are size 4.3mm NOT 4.5mm. And rifling is not for steel, unless it is polygonal. Steel BBs are 0.172 to 0.173" in diameter.

The plating on a steel BB is only microns thick, so the steel does, in fact, "interact" with the rifling.

Lead balls come in all sizes, but .177 caliber balls are all 4.5mm.

I have said all I can about this subject. If you want to shoot steel BBs in your Drozd, that's your decision. I have tried it with both and lead works much better.

I did read the Russian manual and they have definitely changed the wording. It used to say lead balls only. Perhaps EAA, the current importer, requested that change.

I don't have an old Drozd manual but I do own an MP654K Makrov pistol that is made by the same company and has a rifled barrel also. It uses a similar feed mechanism in the magazine and the manual (which is 8 years old) say to use lead only. It specifically states that the use of steel shot will void the warranty.

B.B.

 
At November 02, 2006 12:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Note:
The cuircuit boards in the DROZD (to control the solenoid, etc) have components soldered to them. Solder contains LEAD (especially since lead-free solder was not in popular useage when the DROZD first came out). This could easily explain why the manual contains the California Proposition 65 warning. ANYTHING with lead has to carry that warning.

BB Pelletier: Have you considered that the manual changes, the packing-in of steel BBs, the recommendation in the manual, all of it- is due to the fact that Baikal changed to a different barrel (one suited to steel BBs) after they started exporting to the USA?
Do you obtain early units from Pyramid? Maybe later units had barrels more suited for the US.

Perhaps the best solution would be posting a list of determining factors, and let people determine on their own what kind of ammo to shoot; for example:
Pictures showing the differences between the different types of rifling, micrometer measurements, etc...

 
At November 02, 2006 12:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

PS why doesn't Pyramid sell the bulk fill kit as an add-on? I already own a DROZD and would like to purchase the kit- looking at it you can tell it doesn't involve any changes to the gun itself.

 
At November 03, 2006 6:02 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Thanks for that info,

The Drozd is three years old, so the lead-free solder based on age doesn't cut it. I was using lead-free solder in the 1970s.

I'm sure Pyramyd will off the kit soon, but first they have to catch up with demand for the guns!

B.B.

 
At November 03, 2006 9:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, lead-free solder did exist, but no electronics manufacturer would willingly use it until the laws started popping up (Prop 65 in CA, RoHS rules in Europe, etc) because it was more difficult to work with and not as well suited to electronics as plumbing.
Trust me, Baikal (or their supplier) was NOT using lead-free solder on their PCBs in the late 1990s-early 2000s. The warning applies (at least) to the solder. Whether or not they intended the gun to shoot lead ball is a secondary issue. It sure does seem like they did initially design it for lead.

 
At November 03, 2006 7:10 PM, Anonymous dlb said...

Now this is interesting - http://imzcorp.com/en/info/12867.html

The MP-661K “Drozd” can employ various power sources: 12-gram and larger capacity CO2 cylinders or pre-charged air cylinders. The hopper-type super-high capacity magazine accommodates up to 400 BB’s in caliber 4.5 mm (.177).

* I'd really like to see EAA carry a more extensive selection of Baikal air arms (e.g. the MP-532(T) and their PCP rifles). Anyone know of a Canadian distributor who carries their full line?

 
At November 05, 2006 9:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My preliminary tests indicate that beeman perfect rounds are too large to perfectly fit in the drozd barrel or magazine and may be unsafe to use. Perhaps the gamo rounds are smaller?

 
At November 05, 2006 12:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pyramyd Air sells the bulkfill kit for the Drozd

 
At November 06, 2006 6:53 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

There may be a few ten-thousandths difference between the Beeman and Gamo round balls, but they are supposed to be the same size.

B.B.

 
At November 10, 2006 9:17 PM, Anonymous Shukin said...

Hey has anyone else tried the H&N copper jacketed lead balls in 4.5mm? I find they are fantastic, accurate, powerful and a very low jam issue. The Beeman perfect rounds are good but a little to soft for the magazine as it is always the last one or two that foul. With the copper jackets from H&N success from jamming is a lot better, it still happens as but not nearly as often as again they are "LEAD" not "STEEL". Myself i prefer the lead over steel just for that accuracy.

Shukin

 
At November 17, 2006 12:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My 3 year old Drozd (and Makarov, for that matter) wouldnt run on Gamo lead BB's. Crosman Copperheads work fine, but I had trouble with Daisy's, which were oversized and jammed in the barrel and acted as a locked detent preventing removal of the magazine. The rounds in the magazine prevent pushing the stuck BB back. The magazine shroud can be pivoted permitting access to the magazine follower spring with a dental pick or similar tool so the follower can be retracted, along with the remaining BB's in the mag. NOW the mag can be removed and the barrel cleared.
The 30 round mag isn't a problem, that's about par for real submachine gun firearms, and at 600 rpm and 6 shot burst, it reminds you that movies are just movies- 5 medium bursts require a reload. That's why they sell spares (we have 3 in all).
The speedloader is the nuts, it works on the Makarov too. For best efficiency, clip it on the mag, then tilt to fill the half round portion of the speedloader, then tilt to roll BB's not in the half round trough away or they'll obstruct the flow. Now retract the follower with a thumbnail, tilt, and watch the stack of BB's flow into the mag. Repeat 'til full. Now fill the other mags. OK, now ROCK AND ROLL!
If your chosen CO2 is a tight fit in the mag, there's language in the manual, I think, about adjusting the locked down length of the CO2 ram by pushing out the pin that prevents the ram adjustment from turning, adjusting the length, then pushing the pin back in. See page 10.
As regards lead warnings in the manual, it's stock language for all their airguns, like the dry fire warning for the IZH46.
Love my Drozd!
Fort Worth Silhouette Shooter

 
At November 17, 2006 4:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

CANADIAN AIRGUN REGIMENTAL HEADQUARTERS

Completed 100000th projectile,(steel,copper jacket), through 1 year old model. Accuracy continues to be a less than 1inch grouping at 30feet. Power is a consistant 561fps for the first 11 rounds.
A well used gun continues to get spectacular accuracy with some extreme punch.
Representatives of our organization recently spent a great deal of time with Baikal associates within Canada. All Baikal,EAA,and Drozd. related individuals indicated that the proper and only ammo to use with the MP661K is STEEL. The barrels will not sustain any damage from steel projectiles. These barrels are specialy designed for STEEL Shot. LEAD projectiles will eventualy ruin your gun. Lead is soft. It deforms, fragments, and is not made for a high powered speed machine pistol like the MP661K. Your Mag. will cause the balls to get deformed. Bits of lead will remain inside the mag. causing a future jam situation. These bits of lead will also deposit around key areas within the gun after repeated use.
I understand the concern for the rifled barrel, however, my self as well as 9 other Drozd. owners have been completely satisified by the company that these barrels are made for steel projectiles as is the entire gun. TAKE NOTE: We fired 100000 STEEL projectiles, WITHOUT 1 STOPPAGE. No seal leaks, no change in accurracy or power.

C.O.
Canadian Airgun Regiment

 
At November 17, 2006 4:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Canadian Airgun Regiment Addition

Lubrication of the STEEL projectiles before firing, will help increase fps as well as maintain a lubricated system.

 
At November 17, 2006 4:56 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Canadian Airgun Regiment,

Thanks for your input. 100K shots is impressive.

I will soon test a Drozd with both steel and lead and will show the accuracy/power results in this blog.

B.B.

 
At November 17, 2006 10:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Canadian Airgun Regiment
B.B. Looking forward to your results.
Further to previous information. We shoot together 4 nights a week, different weopons etc. The 1 Drozd is now over 100000 projectiles. We have several over 60000 as well. And I believe all are over 50000. We know this because we buy our shot in 6000 increments which are marked and documented for study. When a gun has completed 6000, the bottle is placed in a register. Most are over 10 bottles. We inspect these guns on a regular basis, barrel lights and follow thread calipers, etc. Not 1 gun, shows any signs of wear. Not 1 mag from any of us, and some of us have several, has had the slightest leak, or malfunction. In Short. This gun is an absolute GEM. Durable, powerful, and dependable.
Rumors also of some security teams, for celebrity estates are using, MP661K for defence of these areas. This has NOT been confirmed however. If someone has insight please feel free to respond.

C.O.
Canadian Airgun Regiment

 
At November 25, 2006 9:50 AM, Blogger Nuglor said...

Yee Haw!!!! Just got my Drozd yesterday. This thing ROCKS!!! Using compressed air in a bulk tank is incredible. No freeze up, no loss of power. Our buddies from up North state, "Rumors also of some security teams, for celebrity estates are using, MP661K for defence of these areas." I can just see the he