Friday, February 10, 2006

Marksman 2004 single-stroke pistol

by B.B. Pelletier

Here's a sporting pellet pistol that can also be used for informal target shooting. It has fully adjustable sights, a single-stroke pneumatic powerplant, a nice trigger and it sells for less than $50. It's the Marksman 2004 pistol!


Marksman's 2004 single-stroke pneumatic pistol is a direct copy of the HW 40 PCA/Beeman P3.


Made in China
Let's get this out in the open from the start. This pistol is made in China for Marksman. Marksman is based in Southern California, where they build many of the guns they sell. The Marksman 1010 spring-piston pistol is the oldest and most famous of all the guns they make. Some day I'll write a report on the 1010, but today we're looking at the 2004.

One more thing to reveal. This gun is a close copy of the Weihrauch HW 40 PCA, which Beeman sells as the P3. And, Marksman owns Beeman. As far as who did what to whom or is the 2004 just as good as the P3, I am not qualified to say. Yes, there is a lot of intrigue in the airgun business, but I try to stay out of it if I can. I'm just interested in this pistol on its own merits.

It looks like high quality!
Don't underestimate the Chinese as manufacturers. If they have a good design to begin with, and if the factory can overcome some cultural hinderances, they can make products as good as those of any other country on this planet. Where they fall short is in a cultural belief system (no doubt the result of Communism) that "good enough is all it takes." When that belief system runs the show, things go downhill fast. Some Chinese airguns are so laughably poor that they are a comedy of errors and deserve the scorn they receive from the rest of the world for making those airguns.

In other areas, the Chinese have now set the world standard. Optics, for instance. Most sport optics (scope sights, lasers, astromonical telescopes, dot sights, etc.) are now made in China. Most of the world's finest cameras are either made there or their lenses are ground there, because the Chinese lead the world in lens production. The Europeans and Japanese set them up in that business in the 1970s, and they've been expanding the market ever since.

The 2004 pistol I have looks more like a fine camera than it does a typical Chinese airgun. Whoever is in charge of making it is doing things right. There are no voids in the synthetic body, the corners and lettering are crisp, the plating on the bright parts looks even, the pins are all the right size and length (they're solid, not rolled), all the screws fit and are undamaged, and the lubricant doesn't smell like a slaughterhouse! These are all the visible indicators that a typical Chinese airgun would get wrong. The only way to tell if the barrel is any good is to shoot the gun. The way to test the powerplant is with a chronograph.

Shooting
I chose two target wadcutter pellets I've come to trust for this test. The JSB Match Diabolo is a world-class target pellet, and the Gamo Match pellet, while less expensive, often performs just as well. I shoot 10-meter air pistol competitively, so my experience with both pellets is first-hand. I find pumping the 2004 a little hard, which is probably due to the length of the top part of the gun that's used as a pumping lever. This is not a gun for youngsters. On the other hand, the pumping effort became smoother and somewhat lighter as the shots increased. Pumping the gun automatically sets the safety - a feature I detest but understand in today's litigious world. There is no dry-fire feature.

The trigger-pull is slightly creepy (that means you can feel the movement of the trigger through stage two of the pull) but very nice and light at 1-1/2 lbs. The only feature that would make it nicer is an overtravel adjustment. There IS a small screw of some kind in the trigger blade but no corresponding access hole in the triggerguard for the Allen wrench to fit through, so I was unable to make any adjustments.

The front sight is a wide square post that is too wide for the rear notch. It was difficult to obtain a precise sight picture because of little light on either side of the front post. Nevertheless, I managed to group five shots inside three-tenths of an inch at 25 feet when I did my part. That answers the big question about the barrel. This one is very good! The rear sight adjusts in both directions, but the screws lack detents. Pay attention to the scribe marks around the elevation adjustment screw and the orientation of the screw slot on the windage screw to see how far you've gone. They move the shot group very precisely.

Velocity
Marksman says this gun shoots 410 f.p.s. JSB Match Diabolo pistol pellets averaged 411 f.p.s. with a 3 f.p.s. total deviation over 10 shots. Gamo Match pellets went an average of 406 f.p.s. with a 9 f.p.s. variation for the 10-shot string. All shooting was done in 58-degree (F) weather. I'd say the 2004 is right on the money!

Evaluation
The Marksman 2004 pistol is a $150 value selling for less than $50! It's that good. I cut this gun no slack because of the pistol it copies, but this one needed no apologies. If I were Weihrauch, I'd be concerned.

164 Comments:

At February 10, 2006 3:31 PM, Anonymous Matt said...

Looks great, great review, great price. I'm surprized to see this much day pass without a comment. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Matt

 
At February 10, 2006 8:30 PM, Blogger airgundoc said...

Matt,
I agree with BB about the M 2000 for the most part. I have one and I have enjoyed its power and accuracy but only after correcting some initial irritating problems. The hinge pins tend to get loose and even fallout if you are not careful but you can correct that with a little Loctite or even Super Glue. The rear sight tends to creep but that also responds to Loctite.
The major problem(s) I had was a failure of the "o" rings. The small one that seals the breech fell out and was lost. The pressure seal failed and also had to be replaced. Fortunately, all these things are fairly easy to correct if you have a little mechanical ability and a source of "o" rings.
I've been shooting the gun now for several months without further problems and truly the gun is a real bargain.
CWI

 
At February 11, 2006 3:04 AM, Anonymous Yarzak said...

The Marksman 2004

Accuracy, Price, Value - a great air pistol! I think that the trigger is simply fantastic and awesome for an inexpensive air gun. - I LOVE THIS PISTOL!!

Purchase:
After doing quite a bit of research on this air pistol, I purchased my Marksman 2004 from Pyramyd at reduced price (it has minute scratch in handle). An additional 10% off during Thanksgiving Holiday online discount sale (Thanksgiving 2005).

Minor Things:
The hammer locking pin backs out a bit. Easily fixed with allen set screw on each side (the holes are already there) or Loctite. Elevation adjustment screw loosens (up another candidate for Loctite). These issues are frequently noted in reviews and forums.

**Issues/Questions? (BB timed his article perfectly!)
1. Put air gun rifle scope on and discovered a "small puff" of gas on my face when firing? I had not noticed prior since the escaping gas does not blow towards hand (coming "up" from around hammer/latch?) but does towards eye held to scope.
There does not appear to be any movement of barrel front to back (checked by loosening screws & set plate holding barrel). Gasket is in place with no apparent damage where meets barrel when closed.
Could this be normal?
2. After cocking if pull back on hammer/latch top (barrel) pops up a bit? Anyone else?


Worth Checking Out:
A painstaking and excellent review of Weihrauch HW40 by Todd Cooper. It includes helpful tear down photos and parts diagrams which correspond to Beeman P3 and Marksman 2004:
http://my.tbaytel.net/coopers/HW40Review/


History if interested:
During 1992 Richard Kazmaier Jr., president of Kazmaier Associates Inc. of Maryland, was interested in the purchase of the Beeman company. The Kazmaier company reportedly owns Bike (athletic clothing), S/R Industries (sporting and recreation equipment), and other holdings. S/R Industries, in turn, owns Marksman Products. Mr. Kazmaier was interested in adding the high-end specialty, dealer distributed products of Beeman to S/R Industries, separate from Marksman, to help provide a balance with Marksman's economy level, mass-market products. April 1,1993 S/R Industries purchased almost all of the operations and assets of Beeman Precision Arms Inc. and the Beeman trademarks.

I believe S/R Industries is listed on side of both the Beeman and Marksman versions.

Ray

 
At February 13, 2006 9:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree totally with all that has been said. In fact, this little gun has great potential for accuracy. I mounted a rifle scope on it and put the pellet through a 1/4" mark at 30 yards (of course I had the gun on my knee and my back braced, etc.-I'm not *that* good). For the $40 I paid at Wally world it is excellent! I had to turn the scope back in as the 3" eye relief was not enough. It was a BSA 3-9x20, a really nice adjustable scope, and only about $30 for the scope. Unfortunately, the only handgun scope I've been able to find anywhere near as nice is closer to $200. The only (relatively) inexpensive handgun scopes I've been able to find are 2x20. 8-( Anyone have any suggestions?

Michael

 
At February 14, 2006 12:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you don't mind paying $120 or so, Simmons has a nice 2-6X pistol scope. Pistol scopes don't start out as cheap as their rifle brethren, I think it's the eye relief.

 
At February 14, 2006 12:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dont like hand guns at leasdt air ones because I only like airguns that have at least enough power to shoot through a fence piece 30 ft.

 
At February 14, 2006 12:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have always gone for rifles anyway,I like the style better too.

 
At February 15, 2006 8:11 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Ray,

What a comment! I went to Todd Cooper's report and found it superb, as promised.

At the SHOT Show, I saw that the Beeman name is now on the pistol instead of Marksman. Apparently the company feels it will sell better that way. It may take some time for this change to be seen in stores.

B.B.

 
At February 16, 2006 5:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree that the M2004 is a super value. I don't think mine was much over $30 at Walmart. It is because of its good virtues, that its short-commings seem all the more irritating. With just some minor design tweeks, it could be even better. For example, the safety should be on the right side so that with just a flick of the trigger finger, the gun is ready for shooting. The top rear of the receiver where the shooters hand pushes down while cocking should be more ergonomic so that all those sharp edges arn't cutting into ones hand.

Regards,

Fred

 
At February 21, 2006 8:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just purchased my Marksman last week after reading the article. It shoots great and the velocities are right in line according to my chronograph. I do have a problem though; every so often it will not discharge with a normal trigger pull. It sometimes goes off on the release of the trigger or other unexpected times (like maybe the second or third release of the trigger). This is a very unsafe condition. The problem seems more pronounced with my red dot mounted on the forward area of the rails, I have no idea why. Has anyone else experienced this? Should I send the gun back to Pyramyd or is there some adjustment or repair I can make?

Thanks,

Bill

 
At February 22, 2006 7:48 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Bill,

I don't like the sound of that trigger! If you haven't adjusted it, something is wrong. I would exchange the pistol with Pyramyd.

B.B.

 
At February 22, 2006 4:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks BB, I'll exchange it. I have not tried to adjust it.

Bill

 
At April 09, 2006 11:38 AM, Anonymous Ferlin said...

Just a quick and probably silly question for anyone. Is the M2004 a single shot? Does one require loading a round each time or does is hold multiple rounds?
Thanks

 
At April 09, 2006 1:54 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Ferlin,

The 2004 is a single-shot pistol. You load one round at a time.

B.B.

 
At April 11, 2006 1:31 AM, Anonymous Ferlin said...

Hey, thanks for the quick reply B.B. I appreciate that.

 
At May 02, 2006 9:12 AM, Anonymous Ian said...

I'm itching to get one of these, but they are VERY hard to find. Pyramidair is on backorder, no retailer stocks them anywhere in the USA that I can find. The current models of Marksman being sold in stores are pathetic plastic toys compare to this gun.

What gives?

 
At May 02, 2006 10:07 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Ian,

I don't know what gives, but I do know that the Beeman name is being put on the gun. That could account for the shortages, as changeovers of a hot item will cause delays.

B.B.

 
At May 24, 2006 7:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know some of this was in the article, but...

I am debating on whether to buy the Beeman p3 or the Marksman 2004. I have heard good reviews from both, but some say the m2004 is a cheap P3 ripoff and falls apart, and also it has a lower velocity. I want to buy an air pistol that has little maintenance, high velocity, and does not require CO2. Also the fact that the M2004 is $45 while the P3 is $189 makes you think that the P3 is better quality, but maybe the m2004 is just manufactured really cheap, but works fine.

 
At May 25, 2006 7:32 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

To tell the truth, the Marksman 2004, which will henceforth be called the Beeman 2004, is just as nice as the Beeman P3. In fact, Weihrauch repairs both guns in Europe!

I know quality when I see it, and this Chinese pistol has good quality. I have heard that some of them had seal problems from the start, but if you buy from a reputable dealer, you will be spared that problem.

Keep your gun oiled properly and it should last a long time. If it doesn't, for some unforseen reason, you are out a lot less money.

I often ask dealers to lend me guns to test, but I bought this one. I own a Beeman P2 and an IZH46, so I know what a high-quality single-stroke should do, and my Marksman 2004 does it all.

B.B.

 
At May 25, 2006 1:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks. I think that settles which gun i'll buy :)

 
At June 03, 2006 8:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just got my model 2004, and on the first day one of the seals failed. I can't believe it broke on the first day. I only fired about a dozen shots when I heard a noticeable air leak. The power fell drastically. Any repair ideas would be gratefully accepted.

Fred

 
At June 04, 2006 9:47 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Fred,

No repairs. Get the dealer to replace the gun.

B.B.

 
At June 06, 2006 3:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just called Pyramid Air and they said they would replace the gun for free. Thanks for your advice

Fred

 
At July 10, 2006 4:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From what I've recently discovered and read, I believe that the $50 Marksman 2004 is the EXACT same pistol as the $150 Beeman P3! Had I known about the Marksman pistol and its price several years ago, I would have NEVER bought the Beeman back then. I must say that this pistol (P3)is a great shooter though... light trigger pull, no recoil, and awesome accuracy. I went out and bought a $20 3x9 BSA rifle scope (I was told by another shooter that this was a 'cheesy' set up, but hey, who cares) I can shoot Beeman hollow point pellets (the best shooting pellets I've found for this gun so far) within the same hole practically at 10 yards, and quarter inch groups out to 20 yards all day long... and I'm just an average shooter. The open front sight blade is too wide for the guns accuracy potential, as one blogger mentioned previously. I noticed only about a 1 inch point of impact difference between 10 and 20 yard distances when I sighted the scope, which for a pistol rated at only 410fps, seems pretty flat-shooting to me. I sighted my scope in for 20 yards and 'Kentucky aim' from there. I've even used this gun to cleanly dispatch several large pesty black birds at distances from 15-25 yards away, with the open sights... I guess it doesn't take much power when you can basically decide head or center-mass shot placement. Gun is HIGHLY recommended... I just wished they made a folding, detachable butt stock for this gun... so long as it's not sold under the Beeman name. Don't get me wrong here, I have an R1 and a .25 Kodiak (which are awesome), I just feel I got ripped ($$) with the P3 thanks to the name game. And I could care less if it's made in Germany or China... if it's the same thing! Hope this helps someone.

 
At July 10, 2006 4:54 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

No, the Chinese Marksman 2004 isn't the same gun, but Beeman has muddied the water so much that it might as well be! And now that the Beeman name will be on the Chinese gun in the future, the P3 might not exist much longer.

Weihrauch is now repairing Chinese-made guns (only in Europe) to keep their own brand from being tarred with the same brush. I do believe they are looking eastward for their future, as all European companies seem to be, but there is a difference (for now) between these two guns.

That said, the difference isn't large.

B.B.

 
At July 22, 2006 10:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

im lookin to buy this gun can u put more than one bb in at a time or no

 
At July 23, 2006 9:22 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

No!

This air pistol does not shoot BBs. It is a pellet pistol that shoots lead pellets, only. And it is a single shot.

B.B.

 
At July 24, 2006 5:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i bought this gun and was wondering can you shoot darts

 
At July 24, 2006 5:09 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

No, this gun has a rifled barrel and should only shoot lead pellets.

B.B.

 
At July 31, 2006 11:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does Walmart sell the Marksman 2004 still?

 
At August 29, 2006 10:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i dnt kno but i was wondering...im having trouble cocking this gun because a friend let me have it and i have no idea how to cok it....can sum 1 please comment back?!?!?

 
At August 30, 2006 8:13 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Poor speller,

Cock the Marksman 2004 by first pulling back and down on the silver hammer at the rear of the slide. The upper part of the slide can now be pulled away (up) from the lower part. Swing it up and as far forward as it will go.

Now load one pellet into the rear of the barrel with the nose going in first.

Close the upper part of the slide by rotating it back down until it locks shut. Watch your hand when you do this, as it is easy to get it pinched between the two slide halves as they come together.

The gun is now cocked, loaded and ready to fire. The safety went on automatically when you opened the top part of the slide, so push the silver button on the left side of the gun forward and you are ready to fire.

B.B.

 
At September 14, 2006 7:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seals on my sample failed within first hour of ownership. Junk in my opinion.

 
At September 14, 2006 10:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey guys,

In my opinion and experience,(I own 2 2004's and one P3), There really is no comparison between the 2004 and the P3. The P3 blows the 2004 away! It really is worth the extra bucks to have the P3 instead. The main difference is in the trigger pull. This trigger is amazingly sweet, just about the best I have encountered (next to my Feinwerkbau) in an airgun. It really has to be experienced to be believed. Cabelas here in Texas sells them and I was allowed to test fire it there.(nice salesman!) I plunked down my cash on the spot. It put the triggers on my 2004's in their proper place as the cheap Chinese copies that they are. Because the trigger is so excellent, I think the P3 is a perfect starter gun for anyone interested in giving target air pistol a try. All the problems you have heard about with the 2004's are non-existent with the P3. I have a Simmons 2x pistol scope on the P3 and regularly shoot 5-shot one-hole groups at 10 meters off a rest. If you don't believe me, get down to Cabelas and check that trigger out! I have a high regard for German craftsmanship and it really shines in the P3. I guess a decent salary and 6 weeks of vacation can make a difference in fine work; at least at Weihrauch it does.

 
At September 14, 2006 10:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Seals on my sample failed within first hour of ownership. Junk in my opinion."

As a follow up to my previous post, after returning the "Junk" Marksman 2004, I purchased a Beeman P3 because the design concept is obviously sound. Put quite simply, the P3 delivers 100% on all expectations. The trigger is very nice for a pistol in the $150 range. Accuracy is very good. The only complaint I have is that loading pellets into the breech is a bit awkward.

Why throw away $30-40 learning the hard way that you should buy a P3 instead???

 
At September 17, 2006 6:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Had awful seal problems with the Beeman 2004e. Had to return it 3 times to have the gun replaced as seal kept giving up within the first week!!!!
Finally decided I'd had enough of this, Changed from the 2004e to the HW40.

Waiting on the HW40 to arrive.
Hopefully I'll have better luck with it than the 2004e!

 
At September 17, 2006 10:17 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Actually, Weihrauch also repairs the Chinese gun in Europe. The seals are idenical, according to Hans Weihrauch.

I understand being angry about the low price of the 2004, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a well-made airgun. At least Weihrauch thinks so.

B.B.

 
At September 18, 2006 4:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bought a Beeman P17 which looks identical to the Marksman 2004, Beeman P3, and Weihrauch HW40. It developed an apparent seal problem, giving low power and a funny double report when dry fired, as if the air was coming out in two pops.

I took the pump off and removed the valve and the O-rings were fine; HOWEVER, the valve was full of emulsified oil! Cleaning it out and reassembling it made it shoot like new! I don't recommend taking it apart unless you are very mechanically inclined like me. BTW I had never oiled it and only had 50 shots thru it. They overdo it at the factory.

 
At September 18, 2006 4:48 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

I've not heard of the Beeman P17. You say it looks like a P3? Where did you get it?

B.B.

 
At September 18, 2006 10:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE: P17:
That's what it's called on the "sportsman's guide" website. The deal was too good despite the tech info I get for free on pyramydair.

I tossed the box and can't find the instructions right now; the gun itself is not marked with any name.

I believe SG may buy up short runs and things like that.

But it was just jam packed with what looked like light brown mayonnaise. I never oiled it!

 
At September 19, 2006 6:28 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Okay,

I went to Sportsmans Guide and checked it out. That gun is the Marksman 2004. Several companies asked Beeman (who also is a part of Marksman) to have the Chinese put the Beeman name on the gun, because they felt they would have better sales under that name. It's not a short run - just a re-labeled box for the 2004.

Since Beeman is the importer of this gun, you can call them and request a new owner's manual. Even though the gun isn't marked, Sportsmans Guide sells it as a Beeman, so they have to take care of it for you.

714/890-4800 or 800/227-2744 (Orders Only)

B.B.

 
At September 19, 2006 9:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE: P17:
My writing was unclear. The gun says "Beeman" in electroless nickel. It doesn't say the model. I am sure the gun is the same as the others but by "short run" I mean maybe they were planning to call it "P17" but changed their mind and dumped the few boxes they made on SG. It certainly is not some kind of custom gun. SG carries irregulars and stuff.

I have a manual but could not find it when you requested info on the model.

The gun is fine now but I will bear your advice in mind if it goes wrong again.

 
At September 21, 2006 12:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

Who is angry about the price of the 2004? It sounds to me like you need to get your hands on a P3 to check out the difference for yourself. Granted, I think the 2004 is o.k. for the money (I own two of them), but it is no P3. The notion that the 2004 and the P3 are the same gun will not hold water anymore once you have actually compared them. The 2004 may be alright for the price, but the P3 is a steal.

 
At September 27, 2006 11:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey guys. Those who have the new P17... can you tell if there is any upgrades in the P17 from the Marksman 2004?
Or it is just only a name on the gun what differs.

Thanks. It has been very intersting reading.

Robsalguz

 
At September 28, 2006 5:37 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Robsalguz,

The P17 is the same gun as the 2004. Beeman was asked to put their name on it, in hopes it would sell more guns. That information comes from Beeman.

Marksman and Beeman are owned by the same holding company - SR Industries.

B.B.

 
At October 13, 2006 9:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to know whether I should get a Marksman 2004, or a Crosman 1377C. In your opinion, which one do you think is better overall?

 
At October 14, 2006 9:03 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

The two airguns are very different. The 2004 is for target use only. The 1377 can be used for small pests and targets.

Get the 2004 if all you want to do is shoot at paper targets. Get the 1377 if you waqnt extra power for shooting rats.

B.B.

 
At November 03, 2006 12:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

First, I don't know jack about guns, air or otherwise. I was going to get the the Beeman P17 from the Sportman's Guide until someone said you can only shot one BB at a time!! To me that's ludicrous. Can someone recommend a pellet pistol that allows more than one shot to be fired at a time, but also has good power similar to 410 f.p.s.?

If you could, respond to my e-mail as I probably won't be able to find this site again. Thanks!
kryptic_mystery@hotmail.com

 
At November 17, 2006 9:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bought the 2004 today and thought the name was the year it was made *shrug*

Fantastic piece of engineering.
Is there anything the Chinese can't replicate and mass produce? Oh yeah, porn!

Feel like a kid on Christmas morning all over again today, only bitch is I paid $100 for it @ Canadian Tire. And the dimwit sold me a case of 25 CO2 catridges that I later refunded.

P.S. Hey B.B., jus wondering, do you have a girlfriend?? LOL

 
At November 21, 2006 6:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was thinking about getting a single shot pistol that doesn't use CO2 for shooting mice in my garage and maybe some pigeons too. I don't want to spend a whole lot of money on this, so I was thinking the 2004 might be a good gun for my money.
I've given the Crosman 1377 some thought too, my only problem with it being that I would rather a little more compact job and I don't really like the multi-pump part either.

 
At November 22, 2006 8:25 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

The 2004 is okay for mice but marginal for pigeons. I would go with the 1377. For a humane dispatch you need POWER, and most air pistols don't have it. The 1377 is an exception.

B.B.

 
At November 24, 2006 12:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

can anyone hlep me put my 2004 back to gahter if it would be grate

 
At December 02, 2006 6:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi bb,

What is the best air pistol thats under 200$

 
At December 03, 2006 9:12 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

I don't know what you are looking for. Accuracy? Then the Marksman 2004 is a good buy. Howeverr there are those who would advise getting a Beeman P3 instead, because it isn't made in China.

A Crosman 2300T is a good buy if accuracy and power are important.

A Benjamin HB22 is a great pistol for the money. Good power and decent accuracy. Nothing wrong with the HB17, either.

You see how difficult this is? You asked for the best air pistol under $200 and I gave you five choices. You must decide what YOU want.

B.B.

 
At December 05, 2006 9:46 PM, Anonymous Isaac said...

Hey there.

I bought the Marksman 2004 a little while ago and it is a grand air gun. I shoot pigeons and black birds as a hobby and this gun does just the job. I had a rather large problem with the seals though. It happened pretty fast. I took it apart and I am looking to put it back together. If you could tell me if there is a diagram on the internet or something that would be very appriciated. Thank you. I also run a Diana Model 20 rifle with a 200$ rifle scope and I have never had a better gun in my life. I recommend it to anyone. Had it for years, still shoots 495 f.p.s. and straight as an arrow. Dead hit every time. Even from 100 ft. away.

Thank you, Isaac.

 
At December 06, 2006 5:51 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Isaac,

I'm not aware of any diagrams for the 2004 on the internet.

B.B.

 
At December 08, 2006 11:04 PM, Blogger Mr. Farknocker said...

I just bought the last one at an online site last week for $34.95 and spent about an hour firing away with no seal or trigger problems. Its now called the "Beeman Sportsman Series P17". I fired my buddies P1 for a couple hours a week before and can tell you that its accuracy is not consistent with the p1--at least not with me. I think the weight and the fact that I'm still sighting the gun may have something to do with it. The craftsmanship is good but the trigger is not as smooth as the P1. I can't vouch for the p3 but have no doubt that it's an excellent pistol. Buying the P17, howver, is a no-brainer when you consider that you're buying something very close in accuracy to the P3 for roughly 5 times less than what some people are selling it for.

 
At December 30, 2006 11:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was given a M 2004 a couple years ago by my neighbor. He had goats that roamed free, and when I complained he bought me the pellet gun and told me to shoot them in the butt and run them off! Well, anyway, this pellet pistol is very accurate. I have a lot of carpenter bees around my shop, and they will zoom around and then hover in one spot for a few seconds. They make for a very challenging target, but I have nailed quite a few of them with it. I also shoot wasps that land on the building, and spiders too.
The only thing I don't like about the gun is the rear sight gets loose, and I had to shim under it to sight it in. But the gun shoots great, and it was free! I have also shot a piece of metal about 1 foot by 1 1/2 foot with this gun at around 75 yards. Don't know where I hit it, but I heard the pellet hit.

 
At January 10, 2007 9:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i have the pt-80 tactical and the p23 with laser and the mendoza RSW 2003 adn the nightstalker and the gamoviper shotgun and i recomend them all

 
At January 31, 2007 1:15 PM, Blogger mohusker said...

Cabela's online offers a Beeman 2006 with red dot. The description appears identical to the Beeman P17/Marksman 2004. Can anyone tell me if it is the same pistol? Anyone tried it? Have the seals improved? Thanks for your help.

 
At February 28, 2007 4:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

what type of velocity can i expect from this gun with a magnum pellet meant for hunting. im assumming if 7.6g match pellets average about 410 than a heavier hunting pellet would average maybe 375 fps, correct me if im wrong. last, im a little bit curious about the kodiak extra heavy pellets. what kind of velocity would the m2004 deliver with a kodiak extra heavy. if i took a guess id say somewhere between 300 and 340 fps. (im not looking to hunt with this air pistol, in fact i would feel terrible for the animal i shot, im just a bit curious with pellets and velocities)

 
At February 28, 2007 4:51 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

The 2004 is too weak for hunting. What you want is a pistol with at least 12 foot-pounds like a Falcon or AR6.

B.B.

 
At February 28, 2007 6:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks for the quick reply as always bb, but you are missing my point a little bit. personally, i am not a hunter, just a recreational shooter. i was just curious as to what type of velocity this airgun would deliver with different pellets so i can get an idea of its power level in comparison to my crosman c11, even though this only shoots bbs. for example, what type of velocity would this gun deliver with a kodiak extra heavy, which weighs 10+ grains, correct? if you have any rough estimate, that would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

 
At March 01, 2007 7:21 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Sorry, but when you used to term "hunting pellet" I was thrown off.

I have no idea what a Kodiak will do in a 2004, so I'll try it today and report the results here. I would guess 300-325

B.B.

 
At March 10, 2007 5:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

how do you know if a seal is failing. i have fired about 30 rounds with this gun that i got from cabelas, and i hear what sounds like air escaping the chamber when i pull back the slide. however, it doesn't seem like the power has dropped since it shed through 140 pages of thick paper. i really like the gun, but once i heard the air which i think i did not hear at first, im starting to get nervous. i don't want to have to return the thing. however, some say that the seal problem is fixed which makes me feel better and also there doesn't appear to be any drop in power. the good thing is i have a whole year to return the thing if something does happen by then.

 
At March 11, 2007 11:13 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

The sound you hear is air rushing INTO to compression chamber. That's why you pull the "slide" up - to retract the piston that sucks air into the compression chamber.

B.B.

 
At March 11, 2007 7:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks alot bb. i must say, even if the seal failed (which it didn't since it is the identical seal to the p3)the gun is amazing. same exact thing as the p3 just one hundred dollars less. why anyone would be upset with the price of this gun is beyond me. i personally am very glad i bought one - i trust your word that you know quality when you see it!

 
At March 17, 2007 10:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am also wondering what the deal is with the Beeman 2006???

I saw it at Gander Mountain today for $40.

Seems exactly like the descriptions/pictures I've seen of the Marksman 2004 and Beeman P17, except it includes the red dot sight...

My other question about this series of air guns:
How quiet are they? I'll need something quiet enough to shoot in my apartment...

Thanks for any info,
Dave

 
At March 18, 2007 12:29 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dave,

Beeman has simply changed the name of the pistol two times. That happens a lot these days.

I think it's quiet enough to shoot indoors, but a Daisy 747 is much quieter.

B.B.

 
At March 20, 2007 4:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i am confused, can someone tell me how to load. This is my first time with this pistol and i have no clue how to load it.

 
At March 20, 2007 4:48 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Pull the hammer back and lift the top of the gun. Rotate the topo forward until it stops. Put a pellet in the rear of the barrel, point-first (you can use any type of pellet).

Close the top until it locks shut. Take the safety off and shoot the gun.

B.B.

 
At March 21, 2007 1:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I purchased three of the Beeman 2004 from Sportsman's Guide last week. They advertise it as a Beeman Sportsmans P17. One of them started to lose compression within two days. I was going to give the others as gifts, but was afraid that they might also be faulty. I then took the other two out of the plastic packaging they come in and cocked and loaded them and let them sit for several hours. They seemed to hold their charge okay. I would like to know if leaving them with compressed air is a proper way to test the seals or is it possible to damage the seals by doing so? Thanks for all the good information.

 
At March 21, 2007 2:00 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

You should never leave a single stroke pneumatic airgun pressurized for more than 5 minutes, according to all the owner's manuals. They do not have an inlet valve, so the pump head serves the purpose. It is flexible and leaving it compressed can ruin it.

B.B.

 
At March 22, 2007 1:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear B.B.
Thank you so much for the reply about not leaving these pistols pressurized. I gave one to my brother after his Webley Hurricane started shooting erratically.(A foot higher than before at 10 meters) He is having a ball. Does anyone know if it makes financial sense to have a 20+ year old Hurricane rebuilt and who might be able to do the work? Thanks.

 
At March 22, 2007 1:31 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Yes to fixing the Hurricane, but to keep the cost low try to do it yourself. A Hurricane isn't that hard to work on.

Here's where the parts are and he can do the gun if you want.

John Groenewold, PO Box 830, Mundelein, IL 60060-0830, (847) 566-2365

B.B.

 
At March 23, 2007 12:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear B.B.

Thanks again for the information about whether or not to repair the Hurricane and who may be of service. Oh, by the way I went back and reread the brief owner's pamphlet (a sheet of folded paper) and it said "do not leave cocked if storing for long periods of time." So, you can see how confusion on this matter might arise. Thanks for the warning on not keeping this gun pressurized.

 
At April 30, 2007 11:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear B.B.

I am very tempted to purchase the marksman/beeman 2004e, but prior to purchasing the gun, what kind of maintenance procedures should i be aware of? I know with a one stroke puematic gun requires different maintenance steps than a spring and co2 gun. Thanks in advance.

youzi

 
At May 01, 2007 9:29 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

youzi,

Not much maintenance of any kind. Perhaps a single drop of Pellgunoil in the compression chamber every five years if you shoot it a lot. I haven't gotten that far yet.

B.B.

 
At May 21, 2007 1:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hello everyone i was wondering since i read a few lines above i see it is not recommended that you use BOLTS OR DARTS for this gun so can anyone recommend to me the best gun to use for a bolt set that i use in my gameroom?? I WOULD PREFER A GUN THAT DOES NOT USE CO2 BUT DOES PACK ENOUGH POWER TO GET ACROOS THE ROOM WITHOUT TEARING UP THE CORK BACKING THAT I USE

 
At May 21, 2007 8:00 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

You need a smoothbore air pistol. At one time they were plentiful, but today, Marksman and Webley are the only companys who make them. Look at the Shootin' Darts II. he Wenbley Singer is not in stock currently, but it's the other one to look at.

B.B.

 
At May 23, 2007 2:19 PM, Anonymous doughnut56 said...

hi! i recently bought a marksman 2004 air pistol. i just want to know what type of scope mount(red dot)can i use for this gun? is it dovetail? is it weaver? please advise.

 
At May 23, 2007 2:29 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

doughnut56,

The 2204 has an 11mm dovetail.

Weaver dovetails are identifiable by slots running transverse to the dovtails.

This blog explains it:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/02/what-is-weaver-mount.html

B.B.

 
At May 23, 2007 2:45 PM, Anonymous doughnut56 said...

thank you so much for your help.

 
At May 31, 2007 4:19 PM, Anonymous BILL said...

I WAS LOOKING FOR A QUIET PISTOL TO SHOOT INDOORS AND ORDERED A BEEMAN P17 BECAUSE IT WAS ONLY ONE QUARTER THE PRICE OF THE DAISY 747 HERE IN CANADA. DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW THE SOUND LEVELS OF THESE TWO PISTOLS IN DECIBELS? FOR COMPARISON, I KNOW MY 15XT PUTS OUT 100 DECIBELS AND I KNOW THAT 3DB EITHER WAY WILL HALVE OR DOUBLE THE PERCEIVED VOLUME.

 
At May 31, 2007 5:01 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Bill,

I do not know the loudness of the Beeman P17, but I suspect it is quieter than the 15XT, because that is a CO2 gun.

The 747 is probably below 94 decibels.

That's measured on the A scale of an impulse tester 10 feet to the side of the muzzle.

B.B.

 
At May 31, 2007 5:15 PM, Anonymous Bill said...

Thank you for the quick response B.B. You are my major source of info on airguns and I consider you to be a very valuable resource. I ordered my P17 from a Canadian affiliate of Pyramydair and expect to receive it next Tuesday. I am guessing that the P17 would be around 97dB which would make it half the perceived loudness of my 15xt which should do for my needs. By the way, I started shooting my 15xt through a tunnel as you suggested in an earlier article and I find it really does help. But it is not really convenient and I look forward to a pistol I can shoot freely in my apartment.

 
At June 01, 2007 12:28 PM, Anonymous Bill said...

I dryfire my pistols perhaps more than I actually shoot them and have read that the Beeman P17 is safe to cock and discharge without a pellet because it has no mainspring. Is this true? can I dryfire to my heart's content without risking damaging my new gun?

 
At June 01, 2007 11:55 PM, Anonymous Brendan in Vancouver said...

wow! this was a great read. I thought that my next gun would be the 747, but I'm going to buy the Marksman 2004 (it's a good deal at my local daeler).
Thanks for all the great info BB (your patience is astounding ;-)

 
At June 02, 2007 9:32 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Bill,

All single-strokes can be dry-fired. The HW 75 even has a training capability so the gun doesn't have to be pressurized.

B.B.

 
At June 02, 2007 11:04 AM, Anonymous Bill said...

Thanks for the info B.B.

 
At June 02, 2007 3:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am looking to purchase an inexpensive yet robust-quality BB or Pellet airgun with high muzzle velocity and decent accuracy. In addition to the Crosman 1377c and the Marksman 2004 what other air pistol models would you recommend?

 
At June 02, 2007 4:28 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Look at the Beeman P1 and the RWS Diana P5.

B.B.

 
At June 19, 2007 8:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

does this gun have rifling - I'm wondering if i can fire round lead pellets, but i highly doubt it if it has a rifled barrel - esp. since this is a target pistol. but what the heck, worth the chance of asking.

 
At June 20, 2007 1:39 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Huh????

Target pistols would ALL be rifled, and - yes - this one is rifled. Round balls can be fired, but why would you? You get so much more accuracy with a diabolo target pellet.

B.B.

 
At July 14, 2007 6:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How loud is this gun on a 1 2 3 4 and 5 point scale because... well... it does not say even though there is a review can you please answer because i am woundering if it is quiet enough for an indoor shooting

 
At July 15, 2007 11:08 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

it's about a 2.7. I shoot it indoors with no problems, but I live in a single-family detatched house.



B.B.

 
At July 29, 2007 7:17 PM, Anonymous Pajo said...

Hi, I got my Beeman P17 Model 2006 from Cabelas in PA with red dot scope for $40. I worked great without the scope (had problems to adjust it, so I took it off) for about 400 shoots. Than suddenly after 7-8 sessions in course of 10 days, I started hearing air hissing out when I put the barrel back. The hissing sound lasts for 10 seconds. If I fire it instantly after loading it, I get different pop sound than if I wait fir the hissing sound to stop. I believe that also the power got decreased.
Is this seal problem? I don't know what to do since I don't know where I put my receipt.

 
At July 30, 2007 6:25 AM, Blogger