Tuesday, June 13, 2006

RWS 850 AirMagnum: Part 2

by B.B. Pelletier

Yesterday, I took the 850 AirMagnum to the range and tested it at 50 yards. The temperature was 90 degrees - warm enough that a CO2 rifle should be performing well. There was no wind to disturb the pellet's flight, so I was able to test the rifle in the best of all possible conditions. The Bushnell 6-18x Trophy scope was up to the task, and I was sighted-in in under 15 minutes.

JSB Exacts were first
I expected the JSB Exacts to out-perform all others, and I wasn't disappointed. I shot the heavy version, which weighs between 10.0 and 10.2 grains. It averaged 656 f.p.s. for a muzzle energy of 9.65 foot-pounds (based on a weight of 10.1 grains). At 50 yards, it delivered 5-shot groups that ranged from 0.89" to a high of 1.325". The average was just under one inch. Because this pellet shot so well, I shot many more groups with it.

Beeman Kodiaks were next
The 10.6-grain Beeman Kodiak (10.4 to 10.7 grains) averaged 641 f.p.s. but had the largest velocity spread of all the pellets I tested (26 f.p.s.). The energy was the highest, at 9.67 foot-pounds. I thought it might challenge the JSB, but a best group of 1.328" and an average of 1.399" knocked it out of the running.

Premier lights were fast but not accurate
The 7.9-grain Crosman Premier (7.7 to 7.9 grains) was fastest, with an average of 708 f.p.s. and a muzzle energy of 8.8 foot-pounds. Downrange it was a disappointment, though, with a 5-shot group size that averaged 1.895" Clearly, this is not a pellet for the 850 AirMagnum.

Premier heavies were better
Premier heavies weigh 10.5 grains (10.2 to 10.7 grains) and are sometimes the most accurate pellet of all in a gas or pneumatic rifle. They averaged 624 f.p.s. for a muzzle energy of 9.08 foot-pounds. The average group was 1.409", placing them behind the Beeman Kodiak.

At 30 yards
I moved the target to 30 yards and the group size with JSBs shrank to 0.73". This is a more realistic distance for the power and the accuracy the 850 AirMagnum offers.


This is a conventional bolt-action rifle. The sliding button below the bolt holds the magazine pin in place. Open the bolt and slide the pin to the rear to remove the 8-shot magazine.



The bolt is back, and the automatic safety button has popped out of the rear of the receiver.


Loading and feeding
The 8-shot magazine loads easily with every pellet. A large O-ring around the circumference of the magazine intrudes into each pellet chamber to hold the pellets securely in place. To remove the magazine, cock the bolt and leave it back, then slide the magazine retaining pin back as well. The magazine slips easily out of the receiver on the left side. When reinstalling it, I sometimes found the bolt a bit difficult to push forward. When reloading for the next shot, the bolt likes to be worked briskly. I had just one jam the whole time at the range, and that was the result of being tentative with the bolt.

This is a different kind of rifle for Umarex to make. It's useful as a sporter and in .22 caliber as a hunting rifle, too. It offers PCP features, such as repeating action, for less than half the price.

154 Comments:

At June 13, 2006 8:48 AM, Anonymous Denny said...

One question. Must all the air be used at each session or can the gun be stored charged?

 
At June 13, 2006 9:07 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Denny,

It isn't air. It is CO2 and it can be left charged for a long time.

B.B.

 
At June 13, 2006 9:36 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

I was under the impression it was a 12fpe rifle in .177!

Jason

 
At June 13, 2006 11:16 AM, Blogger kd5byb said...

Hey B.B.,

I'm curious to know what you thought of the trigger pull, general ergonomics of the rifle, and the fit and finish? Since its Umarex/RWS, I'd expect high marks in all these areas, but am curious...

thanks,
ben

 
At June 13, 2006 11:31 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Jason,

It can't be. If it is advertised in both .177 and.22, they will give the highest power it reaches. That has to be the .22 because it is roughly 20 percent more efficient than .177 in a given powerplant.

B.B.

 
At June 13, 2006 11:41 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

ben,

This was just my first look at the rifle, but you have a valid point. In fact, I should have commented on those things. The marks are all high as you would assume, but I will get specific in another report.

I also have something that may change the way it shoots, so I guess we are in store for more on the 850.

B.B.

 
At June 13, 2006 12:32 PM, Blogger Cesarf25s said...

I like the groupings at 50 yards.

Did it perform that way right out of the box?

This is a bueatiful rifle. At least I think so. 8 shots, co2 powered, and accurate when it has the right pellets.

Great post BB.

 
At June 13, 2006 1:02 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Cesar,

It did perform that way right out of the box.

I will be writing more about this model soon, including something new that may affect accuracy.

B.B.

 
At June 13, 2006 1:23 PM, Blogger kd5byb said...

Hi B.B.,

I look forward to more reports on the 850!

I'm strongly considering this gun as my next air rifle purchase. I'm completely sold on AirSource and CO2 guns in general with my excellent NightStalker experiences. They are fun, accurate, and inexpensive to feed.

thanks,
ben

 
At June 13, 2006 1:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey B.B, i am comparing the umarex 850 with as392t (which looks like you own), can you give us specific pros and cons between these 2. I am sold on airsource co2 .22 cal as my next rifle.

thanks

 
At June 13, 2006 2:06 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Okay, if you want to use the AirSource, either of these rifles will be good for you. They have equivalent power in .22 (the Benjamin is rated very conservatively and the 850 is about right with lightweight lead pellets.

The 392 gives you a hardwood stock and American styling, but it is a single-shot and the scoping options are more difficult than for other adult air rifles. The 850 gives you 8 shots and a scope rail that is ready for a serious scope, but it has a synthetic stock. Both guns are sized for an adult.

The 850 is more money, but you get more features, too. I think you would be happy with either rifle. You may want to read my next report on the 850 before deciding.

B.B.

 
At June 13, 2006 6:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

bb, i've seen pictures of an adaptor for the crosman 1077 that changes from a 12g powerlet to any paintball tank with the correct threads. they say they get 4,000 shots from one of these tanks. even if they only get 500 shots from one of these tanks, i will be much mroe than satisfied! i'd love shooting bulk c02 from this gun. at 1.50 perfill, it is vastly cheaper than either 12g's or airsources. the problem is, here in canada, the only thing sold here is maple syrup =/. in fact, the reason i wanted to get a 1077 was because its the only c02 rifle i can find in all of edmonton! i'm willing to pay the $60 FAC and paintball tank, but where can i buy an adaptor? preferably in-store, because the last thing i want to do is order online- too many bad experiences for me. wholesalesports, most likely the biggest store in edmonton for aigunning, dosnot stock this adaptor. if the adaptor isnt sold in stores, this will be bad for me. its the only rifle i'm comfortable hunting with. i know its a bit too weak to hunt with, but i assume from very close ranges and 5 hollowpoints to a vital spot it should be a humane kill. my window is very close to a number of trees, which is where i plan to make my kills.if by chance it isnt sold here, will a daisy 853 do the job? i love the accuracy.
thanks for writing a great blog.

 
At June 13, 2006 8:26 PM, Anonymous Bill said...

So B.B. After the testing how did the accuracy compare with the CF-X. What size were your groups with the CF-X on a similar day?

Thanks,

 
At June 14, 2006 2:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.
completely off topic question. What is the difference between HW30 and Beeman R7 besides R7 having the reckord trigger. Is the barrel the same? Stock the same? Are both made in germany? There's a difference of about $100 between the HW30 and R7, so I was curious why it's a huge price difference. And howcome they raised the price on all Beeman products?

 
At June 14, 2006 3:16 AM, Blogger Cesarf25s said...

BB,

I look foward to seeing Part 3.

Thank you

Cesar

 
At June 14, 2006 8:00 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

1077,

Surely you're aware that the AirSource adaptor will give you exactly what you seek without any fuss?

I have a 1077 running on a 3.5 ounce paintball tank and it gets about 250 shots. There was a Constant Air version of the gun that adapted it to any size tank. You might find one for sale at the American Airguns classified ads website (see airguninfo.com).

Also, any farm supply or industrial gas retail store will be able to put the pieces together for you.

B.B.

 
At June 14, 2006 8:12 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Bill,

I tested the CF-X at 33 yards, so that compares to the 30-yard group reported here. The best group from the CF-X measured 0.886, compared to 0.73 at 30 yards for the 850. Both rifles are in the same ballpark.

B.B.

 
At June 16, 2006 8:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How loud is this rifle? Any Comparison's?

 
At June 17, 2006 6:21 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

The 850 is pretty quiet. Certainly no louder than a 1077.

B.B.

 
At August 01, 2006 9:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

It seems like the 5605 Air Source to Air Source bottle stopper at http://www.cooper-t.com/bottlestoppers.html would make the AirSource bottle refillable. Not only that, but it seems like the AirSource bottle could then be filled with 900 PSI of air instead of CO2 and used with the 850 AirMagnum. Wouldn't this give you better velocities (since air is thinner and more will pass through the valve while it is open) and make this gun useful in colder climates? What possible problems would there be with doing this?

 
At August 02, 2006 9:32 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

It's not going to fit without an adaptor. The 850 AirMagnum expects to see an Airsource than that it has to pierce.

Yes velocity would be higher. And you would get about one magazine before needing to refill. Air moves too fast for this small a container at this low a pressure.

B.B.

 
At August 02, 2006 10:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you! I am not familiar with AirSource so that helps.

 
At August 04, 2006 9:19 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

B.B.

I called up Cooper-T about the 5606 Bottle Stopper and they informed me that it should fit the 850 AirMagnum. It is machined to fit around an AirSource bottle piercer. So you probably can use one of these to make the AirSource bottle refillable.

Can you use an AirSource bottle filled with air to 900 PSI? Like you said, probably. But Tom Gaylord indicates you would only get one or two good shots (http://pyramydair.com/site/articles/co2/).

To really use air with the 850 AirMagnum, you need an AirSource adapter, a regulator (probably high flow), and an air tank. The tank stores the air up to 3000 PSI, the regulator reduces it to CO2 pressures and the adapter connects the whole mess to the gun. For the cost of this setup you might as well buy a PCP gun in the first place!

An interesting idea though.

 
At August 23, 2006 3:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

do you guys know if the front sight on rws850 can be removed?

also how many magazines this rifle comes with?

thanks.

 
At August 24, 2006 6:38 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

The front sight comes off easily with one screw. Two magazines come with the gun.

B.B.

 
At August 25, 2006 9:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

if you ever going to do a review on rws 850 part 3, would you please test this rifle in .22 calibre or do you have some other ideas?
thanks.

 
At August 25, 2006 5:23 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

850,

Yes, that wou;pd be a good review. From the .177, I know the .22 will be 11.5+ foot-pounds with heavy pellets. So imagine an accurate barrel shooting nice accurate pellets at 550-600.

B.B.

 
At August 27, 2006 11:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, would you please tell us when RWS 850 review 3 is going to be done, we all waiting for it...since you give us such a good and detailed info, it would help some of us to make a decision on this rifle. I`d like to purchase one but not before the third review.
thank you.

 
At August 27, 2006 7:26 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Don't hold your breath. I may do it this year, if I can get to it. I can't test every airgun Pyramyd Air sells in every caliber.

Once again, it will be just like the .177 only with 20 percent more power.

B.B.

 
At September 14, 2006 6:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, for those who interested in .22 cal RWS850, i`ve done a little testing with RWS superpoint (14.5gr) and Beeman silver sting (15.7) pellets using a chronograph. Very accurate rifle up to 50 yards, if you hunt some small game like rabbits, squirrel or pigeon I advise you to stay within 30 yards. Here is what I got so far: It shoots 14.5 gr. pellet at velocity 620 fps average. Extreme spread is 15 fps with 10 shot string. Energy is 12.4 fpe.
Next pellet is 15.7 gr. It performed a little better - 611 fps average with extreme spread is only 11 fps with 10 shot string. Energy is 13 fpe!
Since you lose approximately 5 fpe of energy every 30 yards, that means that if you shoot with 13 fpe at the muzzle, you would have about 8 fpe at the end of 30 yard range, remember that rabbit only need 4 fpe to be dispatched cleanly if you place that pellet within the kill zone, pigeon and squirrel only need 3 fpe. So if you buy RWS850 rifle to hunt then .22 cal is the way to go, plenty of stopping power. 30 yards is nothing for this rifle. Even at 40 yards this rifle delivers a good kill-punch, of course with everything else done right.
good luck!

 
At September 19, 2006 1:52 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

Thank you!

Do you know what temperature it was for those chronograph readings?

I have a .22 RWS 850 but don't have a chronograph.

.22 multi-shot

 
At September 19, 2006 2:11 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

The best I can recall, it was 90-95 that day.

B.B.

 
At September 19, 2006 7:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok in my case it was around 80 degrees.
the only thing that is not true about this rifle is number of shots it delivers. Advertised: 400. No way!
I get about 120 - 150 full power shots, which is great, of course.
Now, you can play around with lighter or hevier pellets, those two I found works best for me: RWS Superpoint and Beeman Silver Sting.
Kodiak did not perform well at all, it`s too heavy for this type of a gun. It is the best pellet for my Condor but not for RWS850.
Hope it helps.

 
At September 20, 2006 7:08 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

I'll have to try those pellets.

B.B.

 
At September 20, 2006 8:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, I am sure JSB Diabolo will perform well too. You might say that pointed pellets are no good accuracy-wise (silver sting or superpoint), and you are right, for the long range shot - no. But for 30 yards with RWS850 it does not really matter what pellet you use, just don`t use any heavy ones.
Medium weight good quality pellets are perfect.

 
At September 20, 2006 9:46 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

I'll keep that in mind. I did find that Kodiaks were way too heavy for accuracy, just as you said.

B.B.

 
At September 21, 2006 12:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A few words about Umarex compensator. It is NOT a silencer, but it DOES muffle the muzzle report a little. Definitely worth 30 dollars. Made in Germany. You may say, well, if it does suppress the report, then it IS a silencer. I say, what kind of a silencer have 12 holes in it? So you decide what this thing really is.

 
At September 28, 2006 8:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK I`ve done one more test with RWS850 using RWS superpointextra pellet. All results are pretty much the same from the first test I told you about. 620fps @ 12.4fpe at the muzzle. Then I placed all numbers in the computer and using ChairGun2 software (airgun ballistics) I came up with this...First of all, this is my setup: 14.5gr pellet, scope magnification 7, scope height 1.5" from the barrel, zero is set for 30 yards, 620fps. Now if your set up is different then expect different results. This is what I have so far: POI (point of impact) at 15 thru 25 yards is 0.75" above zero, no need to worry about any elevation adjustments. Zero @ 30 yards. At 35 yards is 1" below, again, really easy to make an adjustment. At 40 yards 2.5"below. At 45 yards 4.4" below and at 50 yards 6.75" below.
Really good numbers for 12 foot-pound rifle. Next VELOCITY: Muzzle - 620, 20 yards-505, 30 yards-455, 40 yards-410, 50 yards-370. Now, the most important thing, ENERGY. Thats where this 12-pounder shines:
12.4fpe at the muzzle, 8.2fpe at 20 yards, 6.6fpe at 30 yards, 5.4fpe at 40 yards and 4.4fpe at 50 yards. Remember I told you that rabbit only needs 4fpe (3fpe for a pigeon) to be dispatched cleanly?
Look at the numbers. Impressive is it not? Next thing is Wound Channel Depth (average). 2.9" at 20 yards, 2.6" at 30, 2.3" at 40 and 2.1" at 50 yards. For example a common pigeon is a relatevely soft target so all those numbers would be a good reference point.
There are a lot more usefull things in that program so I advise you to get one if you are serious about airgunning. It`s free.
I am sure there are some folks who still trying to decide on this rifle, I truly hope I helped a little. Good luck.
Vlad.

 
At September 29, 2006 6:58 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Vlad,

I really appreciate your detailed report, and I'm sure our readers are, as well. This is the sort of information a buyer will use to make a decision on this rifle.

Thank you,

B.B.

 
At October 10, 2006 1:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Forgot to tell you guys. This rifle is dead silent if you put some tape over the compensator, to cover those 12 holes. Electrical or non-mark camo tape.
Staple gun is loud compare to this.

 
At October 11, 2006 11:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Cooper-T 5606 Bottle Stopper should not be used to refill an AirSource cylinder. The cylinder says, "Do not refill this cylinder - One time use only." It probably would be difficult even to use one as a bottle stopper for the 850 because the connector is fairly deep inside the stock.

 
At October 13, 2006 7:01 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Amen! You know, the inexpensive AirSource cartridge was created to be a disposable source of bulk CO2. There are paintball tanks for applications where refilling is desired.

B.B.

 
At October 23, 2006 9:24 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

B.B.

I have good news and bad news.

The bad news :-(
There is something wrong with my Mendoza RM-2000. I tried the DIY chronograph at http://www.seattleairsoft.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=15&page=0 to measure its velocity. It came in at 500fps with .22 JSB Exact Jumbos (15.8gr) and around 640fps with .22 Mendoza solid skirt pellets (13.8gr). Not good!

The good news :-)
I took a look at using air instead of CO2 with the RWS 850. There were two things that convinced me to go ahead and try it. First, air is less temperature sensitive. Second, the cost wasn't as high as I figured it would be.

Using the DIY chronograph, the RWS 850 performed as follows with air. JSB .22 Exact Jumbos gave velocities that varied from 591fps up to 602fps with an average of 594fps (12.38 average foot pounds). That puts the air setup about the same as CO2 on an 80 - 90 degree day. It was 73 degrees the day I tested.

For the chronograph setup, the first paper was 5ft. from the gun and the second paper was 10ft. from the first paper. A good recording volume with my sound card seemed to be about 30% (NO microphone +20dB boost).

For anyone interested, the recording volume was set to 50% initially. At that level, spikes from the gun report clearly recorded on both the first and second mikes. Using that information, the speed of sound that day calculated out to 1125fps.

Thanks,
.22 multi-shot

 
At October 24, 2006 5:51 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

Wow! When you first started writing comments you said you were new to airguns. Now it sounds like you should start a blog of your own!

B.B.

 
At October 24, 2006 4:00 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

Thank you for the compliment B.B.! However, I still consider myself new. I don't have breadth of knowledge or much experience yet. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us so that we can grow.

By the way, I talked to Cabella's and I am returning the Mendoza. (No, I'm sorry, I didn't buy it at Pyramyd. Cabella's had it at basically the same price but with a scope.)

Thanks again,
.22 multi-shot

 
At October 25, 2006 12:35 AM, Blogger dbarr said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At October 30, 2006 4:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Small correction. Number of shots for .22 cal RWS850: approximately 160 full power shots. Imagine the whole day or two of hunting on just one charge. I notice a POI shift after 20 clips has been fired. I used a chrony throughout the whole experiment. Pellet is 14.5 gr RWS superpoint. An hour ago I blew a pigeon away at 40 yards! Outstanding perfomance. Not a single jam.
Vlad.

 
At October 30, 2006 4:31 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Vlad,

That's excellent report and highly useful to everyone. How many shooters would have the patience to do what you did?

Since you used a chrono, what velocity did you record with the Superpoint?

B.B.

 
At October 30, 2006 7:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got an average velocity of 618 fps which is 12.3 foot-pound of energy. 84 degrees outside.
I can't get enough of this rifle!
I shoot it more often than Condor, and I bought them almost at the same time.

 
At October 31, 2006 6:18 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Interesting! Umarex made this rifle to not exceed 12 foot-pounds for sale in England, so you must have a hot one.

B.B.

 
At October 31, 2006 4:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess so. When I was experimenting with 15.7 gr. silver sting I was getting an average of 12.7 fpe. Jsb exact (15.8 gr.) produces the same results. Anything heavier is no good. I don't like changing the ammo, so I decided to stick with superpoint since I have a lot of it. It works well. I threaded one superpoint pellet into pigeon yesterday, right in between shoulder blades. It penetrated 2 in. deep at 40 yards. He made an attempt to take off, but fell dead couple of yards away. It was the first pigeon that I was able to retreave and chop up, all my previous kills were up on the roofs,- good for crows and hawks.
Vlad.

 
At December 19, 2006 5:46 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

FYI, I finally checked the output pressure of my air setup (see results posted above). The regulator output pressure is right at 800PSI. I'm working on another setup that will output 1000PSI. I will post results when I have them.

.22 multi-shot

 
At December 20, 2006 6:02 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

You can get better performance at 800 psi with a lighter valve return spring and hammer, too.

B.B.

 
At December 20, 2006 8:17 AM, Blogger dbarr said...

Thank you for the tip B.B.! I've been hesitant to take apart the 850. I intend to gain experience in that area with a gun whose disassembly is well known (e.g. Crosman 2240) but will probably (eventually) take apart the 850.

The new regulator I bought (Smart Parts Inline Max-Flo) is adjustable so I will have variable power too! It is a great regulator with tank (source) and output pressure gauges. It even bleeds off extra pressure if you adjust the output pressure down!

Thanks,
.22 multi-shot

 
At December 20, 2006 8:35 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

That tank sounds intriguing!

Their "no returns" policy turns me off, however. So often these internet-based businesses want to cut and run afer the sale, and with pneumatic products that doesn't always work.

B.B.

 
At December 20, 2006 10:49 AM, Blogger dbarr said...

B.B.

Smart Parts doesn't make the Inline Max-Flo regulator any more. I purchased it used on EBay. However, they still sell parts for it. Fortunately there is a Paintball store here that knows how to maintain that regulator (Smart Parts gave me the store name and location).

My tank (13 cu. in. fluid capacity) came from PepperBall Technologies, Inc.. They were VERY helpful! One note - the PepperBall tank comes with a regulator that is permanent Loctited in.

.22 multi-shot

 
At December 20, 2006 10:51 AM, Blogger dbarr said...

By the way, the 13 ci tank is different than the one I tested with the 800PSI regulator. I haven't tested the 13 yet. It will be more like a PCP rifle setup.

.22 multi-shot

 
At December 20, 2006 1:24 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

Keep us posted.

B.B.

 
At December 21, 2006 12:29 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

I will.

.22 multi-shot

 
At December 23, 2006 5:42 PM, Blogger BMAC said...

I'm interested in buying the RWS Model 850 Air Rifle Combo, I want a .22 cal, can someone clarify if the RWS 850 is a dual cal rifle (.177 and .22)simply by changing out the magazine?

 
At December 24, 2006 8:02 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

BMAC,

The RWS 850 Air Magnum is not a dual caliber airgun. The barrel is not removable, so you must buy it in one specific caliber.

Only AirForce Airguns offers a true dual caliber facility, as far as I know. Their barrels can be changed in a matter of minutes.

B.B.

 
At December 24, 2006 1:12 PM, Blogger BMAC said...

B.B. Thanks. Can you tell me if the RWS 850 Air Magnum is available in the U.S. as a .22 caliber? I only see it advertised as a .177 caliber in the U.S., however, I see they offer an 8 shot .22 cal magazine for the RWS 850 Air Magnum as an accessory. If available, can you tell me who offers it in the U.S.? Thanks

 
At December 25, 2006 7:15 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

BMAC,

It doesn't appear that Umarex USA is importing the .22 caliber 850 AirMagnum yet.

B.B.

 
At December 25, 2006 3:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BMAC, you misunderstood the info. It is available in both calibers, if you are talking about the U.S. market.

 
At December 26, 2006 11:19 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

I think I am misunderstanding something here. I purchased my .22 RWS 850 from Pyramyd Air and I live in the U.S. The combos are only .177 so far though.

.22 multi-shot

 
At December 27, 2006 7:56 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

Mea culpa. They are simply out of stock at the moment.

B.B.

 
At December 27, 2006 7:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This rifle is a real pigeon slayer!
The great thing is that it does not overpenetrate, which is great in the pest elimination business around buildings and stock animals. I love it.

 
At January 14, 2007 10:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

H & N Field Target & Trophy .177 pellets (8.66 grns)perform well in this rifle. Velocity 725 fps and ME 10.1 ft/lbs. Bisley Pest Control (8.8 grns) also give good performance 9.7ft/lbs & 707 fps, using 88g airsource in UK weather.

 
At January 16, 2007 1:47 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

FYI, I don't know when I'll be able to test the 1000PSI conversion. I am trying to find a tank inspection location closer to where I live. So far it looks like the closest is around 40 miles away. The tank doesn't require a hydro (2" diameter), but I want at least a visual inspection since it is used.

I also plan to test with and without a muzzlebrake to see if it makes any difference at higher velocities.

Thanks,
.22 multi-shot

 
At January 19, 2007 2:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A maintenance question:
How do you clean the inside of the barrel? The manual advises against the use of cleaning pellets. So is there some ways or tools to clean it without disassembling the barrel?
The Boresnake I have would not fit in the breech end.
Thank you,
DN

 
At January 19, 2007 3:16 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DN,

If you clean, and there is really no reason to do so, you clean from the muzzle with a brass brush.

 
At February 04, 2007 9:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can you reliably kill a squirrel with this gun in 177.If not, what game can I take

 
At February 05, 2007 6:25 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Yes, the .177 850 AirMagnum will take squirrels at close range (out to 25 yards max). The shots have to be perfect head shots, because there is no margain of energy for a heart shot.

B.B.

 
At February 09, 2007 3:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

At a price range of under $500, for shooting sparrows and starlings from an orchard, what is your favorite gun for accuracy in the range of 30-40 yards. Can you give your favorite is CO2 and spring action and tell which type you prefer.

Thanks

Birdman

 
At February 09, 2007 5:06 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Birdman.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are more than a casual shooter. This is your orchard and you use or sell the fruit?

Your budget is great! Stay away from CO2; it's temperature dependant.

I think a .22 caliber RWS Diana 48 and a nice Leapers scope in a B-square 1-piece AA adjustable mount.

B.B.

 
At February 19, 2007 7:17 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

B.B.

I finally had the 13 cubic inch tank hydro'd and set everything up with the AirMagnum (1000PSI reg, tank mount and adapter setup). I haven't done complete testing, but I thought you might like initial results.

The regulator had an actual output of 1050PSI. With the small tank at that output pressure I shot 24 pellets (3 magazines) before the pressure dropped to 800PSI.

I wasn't able to chronograph because the light didn't seem to be right for my friend's chrono. It did give a speed of 619fps for one shot (Crosman Premiers), but otherwise it kept reading "Error". I'm hoping the speed was incorrect - I figured I would probably get at least 650fps with the higher pressure. I supposed the valve might be designed to try to stabalize the output to compensate for CO2 pressure instability though. That would mean I'll have to modify the valve (perhaps the spring?) to get higher velocities.

I also tried the compensator with one magazine and noticed that it seemed louder with the compensator on (perhaps it reflects some of the sound back?).

That is all for now. I'll post again when I've done more testing.

Thanks,
.22 multi-shot

 
At February 20, 2007 5:35 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

I'm afraid you've gone too high on the reg output and are seeing the start of valve lock. If you set the pressure at 850 you'll be exactly where the valve is designed to operate. The thinner gas will flow faster and boost the velocity by itself.

I'm making a test rig for a Benjamin AS312T. I expect to go from 610 to 700 f.p.s. with .22 Premiers, just because of the thinner gas.

I will report on this when I have it running.

B.B.

 
At February 20, 2007 1:21 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

Wow, thanks! I should have thought of that!

Originally I was going to test starting at 800 PSI and increase in increments up to 1000 PSI. However, I was excited after taking so long to get everything together. I also discovered that it is VERY hard to turn the adjustment knob to increase pressure while the air is on. It was hard enough with the air turned off! I guess I will go back, start at 1000 and work down from there in 50 PSI increments so I can find the sweet spot.

Your project with the Benjamin AS312T sounds interesting! Are you going to post an article on it when you finish?

Thanks,
.22 multi-shot

 
At February 20, 2007 1:26 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

You betcha! I have all the components, but they are leaking at the gun interface right now. I'll solve it.

B.B.

 
At February 20, 2007 6:57 PM, Blogger dbarr said...

Sorry B.B. I forgot you don't get the context when you are answering questions. Here is my question with context.

Out of curiousity, what are you using to connect to the AirSource fitting on your AS312T experiment? A Cooper-T or custom made adapter?

Thanks,
.22 multi-shot

 
At February 21, 2007 5:54 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 mulit-shot,

It's a standard paintball adaptor sold my Mac-1. I had to add some fittings to adapt it to scuba.

B.B.

 
At April 19, 2007 6:54 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Hi B.B.,

Thanks, I wish I had known that Mac-1 had an Airsource to paintball adapter when I started this project!

This is my first week home after being gone for five, so I haven't had a chance to do pressure tests with my 850 air setup yet.

I did take the stock off and found some interesting things inside. The whole valve just screws into the breech/trigger mechanism so it is very easy to remove! The valve end that screws into the main mechanism has two holes 12mm apart (center to center) for a special wrench (like the lock nut wrenches used to remove the lock nut on angle grinders). Screwing open that end should give access to the inside of the valve. I will take a look inside the valve after I buy/make a wrench to open it.

It looks like all that would be necessary to convert an RWS 850 to a Walther 1250 Dominator is a different valve, the air tube and the new removal stock piece (unless, of course, they modified the mechanism, changed the material for higher pressure and/or used a different barrel). I wonder if they will sell a conversion kit?
See the Walther 1250 Dominator web page

Thanks,
.22 multi-shot

 
At April 20, 2007 12:44 AM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

... although they might have to at least change the hammer spring for the new valve.

.22 multi-shot

 
At April 20, 2007 6:30 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

I can almost guarantee that Umarex will not make a conversion kit for the 850. They want to sell new guns only.

B.B.

 
At April 20, 2007 1:41 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

It would be great if they did sell an 850 to 1250 conversion.

I found the name for the type of wrench needed to open the 850 valve. It is a "face spanner" or "pin face spanner" wrench. The holes for the pins are 2.5mm in diameter and about 12mm apart center-to-center.

.22 multi-shot

 
At April 22, 2007 12:47 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

FYI, I found an adjustable face spanner wrench at TrueValue (TrueValue called it an adjustable spanner wrench). I ground down the pins to the correct diameter, then ground off the metal between so the span would close down to 12mm. I then opened the valve.

I won't try to describe the valve, pictures would do much better. I was able to remove the puncture pin by tapping it out with a pin punch. There is also a filter screen held in place by the base of the puncture pin. Removing these should give much better air flow for the air conversion.

I will probably taper the puncture pin seat for better flow and then reinstall the valve for testing.

.22 multi-shot

 
At May 01, 2007 2:18 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

IMPORTANT - so the following won't happen to anyone else. If the puncture pin and filter screen are removed from the 850 valve, don't use a Cooper-T 5606 Air Source to Paintball adapter. I did, and something blew out of the adapter and into the valve. The valve stuck open and when I opened the valve, I found a small piece of spiraled, red aluminum inside. When I looked at the adapter, I noticed that something on the AirSource side of the adapter was missing (something that had been in the center of the hole before and I had wondered why it was there).

One of the dangers of experimenting... :(

.22 multi-shot

 
At May 06, 2007 5:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi BB.
I just bought 850 (.22) from Pyramid, & have some quetions for you.

1. This is for Hunting & Pest Control, & Can I cut Top of Babbel, may be 5 to 8 inches for make as Carbine Style Rifle, so I can carry easy at Woods, bushes. If so What is the Maximum Cut inches??? Is it hurt Power or Accuracy???

2. Is there any conversion kit, to make use of Air, instead of CO2??? If so how much cost will be, & know the web links???

3. Also I would like put on Rifle belt on, Is it OK to put on CO2 cover of Front end ??? Is it strong enogh to carry all day???

4. Last & most all, this 850 made by uramex of Germany, Is this company also makes Walther P22 (.22), PPK (.38), P99 (9mm)=Firearms??? I am thinking buying of those for personal carry, & Home Defense. Could you tell me about this Company, anythings inf. will be apprecliated. Also which hand gun will suit for parsonal carry, & self defense???
Which handgun will you carry for self-defense purpose???

I am very appreciated your commment here blog. I am not too much in Airguns world anymore-(have Beeman, Gamo, Crosman, Daisy etc.), used read everyday of your blog. and I am now more of Rimfire Rifle - Marlin, Rugar etc. using CB-Long Ammo ( 30 grain, 700 fps, 30 pfe very quiet, but sometimes too much power for small games, and Ammo is kind expensive- 100 rnd for $8., so this 850 is good alternative with cheap ammo, & good Accuracy)
But time to time come back here to get touch with AirGun World.
Thank you and
Keep up Good Works.

New 850 Owner!

 
At May 07, 2007 8:20 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

New 850 owner.

Cutting the barrel of your rifle will usually ruin it. Cutting the barrel of a CO2 or pneumatic gun reduces velocity, as well as accuracy.

Fifteen years ago when the fact that shorter barrels might produce higher velocity (they don't) was published, there were a bunch of barrels ruined by cutting.

There is no authorized conversion to air. I'm sure there are hobby conversions, but they will often harm your gun, too.

The front cover is thin plastic and I thinks too fragile for all-day carry.

Umarex owns Walther. Their reputation is well-known. I carry other defense guns, but the CP88 always appealed to me.

B.B.

 
At May 07, 2007 3:45 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

FYI, there is a replacement valve for the RWS 850 AirMagnum with an advertised performance of 868fps. I assume that is for .177. RWS 850 replacement valve link.

The site is in German but it can be translated with Google Language Tools. Go to www.google.com, click on the "Language Tools" link, go to the "Translate a web page" box, paste the link, select "German to English" in the dropdown menu and click "Translate".

.22 multi-shot

 
At May 30, 2007 9:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anyone tried this valve replacement yet. I have a .22 cal 850 and I am not a gunsmith so I am hesitent to try it before an expert mod'r can tell me how.

 
At June 01, 2007 7:16 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

No, I haven't tried the new valve. I did modify my valve and it was easy to remove and install.

Of course, DON'T do this with an AirSource tank installed!

1) Remove the cap that covers the AirSource tank.
2) Unscrew the two screws that hold the stock on (at each end of the trigger guard). You will need the proper size hex key (wrench).
3) Remove the stock.
4) Use a wrench to unscrew the valve. There wasn't any thread sealer on my valve.
5) Screw the new valve in and tighten it with the same effort required to remove the old valve. I used a small amount of teflon pipe thread compound (the kind safe for plastic pipe) on the threads.
6) Screw the stock back on.
7) Put the stock cap back on.

.22 multi-shot

 
At July 02, 2007 1:29 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

FYI, neither the regular or gel blue thread locker from Permatex made an airtight seal when I screwed the cap back on the valve.

When I originally took the valve apart, it looked like white glue was used on the threads, so after some research on the internet, I decided to try Elmer's Carpenter's glue (interior). I used it instead of white glue because I found a mention that Carpenter's glue stays more flexible than white glue when it dries.

So far, the Carpenter's glue has worked great!

.22 multi-shot

 
At July 02, 2007 5:07 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Sorry, I read my post and it wasn't real clear. The place I used the Carpenter's glue was on the threads of the "cap" (the valve seat) that screws into the valve body.

.22 multi-shot

 
At July 03, 2007 5:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you gain some velocity with the work you did on the valve?
Thanks David

 
At July 03, 2007 1:17 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

David,

Yes, at least removing the puncture pin did. I don't know how much right now. When I am done with my mods I will post the results here. I will probably start a blog that goes into the details so I don't clutter up BB's blog. I will post the URL when I do.

.22 multi-shot

 
At July 10, 2007 5:44 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

I finally have some results from modifying my .22 caliber RWS 850. Unfortunately, I lost about 1000 pounds of pressure when the off switch on the regulator decided to malfunction. This happened the second time I adjusted the pressure down. Because of this I was not able to shoot a nice series from 1000PSI down to 850PSI. The speed ranged from 685fps at 1000psi to 660fps at 850psi with JSB .22 Exact Jumbos.

The setup was as follows. The valve was modified to remove the puncture pin and filter screen, the puncture pin seat was reamed away, and the entrance and exit ports of the valve were polished. The air tank was a 13 cubic inch (213cc) tank with a Smart Parts Max Flow adjustable regulator.

I was amazed that even with the loss of 1000PSI, I got a total of 16 shots and still had some pressure left.

.22 multi-shot

 
At July 26, 2007 2:00 AM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Haven't started a blog yet, but there are now pictures of the 850 PCP conversion project at http://www.airgunhome.com/agforum/viewtopic.php?t=285&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

.22 multi-shot

 
At August 01, 2007 11:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is someone on one of the forums with a used AirMagnum that seems to have the replacement valve, see h