by B.B. Pelletier
This comes up all the time in the comments section. I answer each one and satisfy that one person who asked the question. Now, I want to address everyone. Why do you miss?
This question was asked yesterday by The.Man.
This is a little off-topic….maybe. Anyhow, are you saying it is not uncommon to miss the target (1″ circle @ 25 yards let’s say) with higher powered rifles with recoil such as the CF-X? I have to say I’ve been missing a good bit, even tho I try to replicate my successful shot, sometimes it just misses, not by alot but I end up with 1.5″ spreads in 5 or 10 shots with 3 or 5 of those being less than .2″ depending on the number of shots in the group. Of course, I have not been able to sort pellets by weight and this is my first springer so…I guess what I’m asking is how accurate should I expect to be, I have read the post you made about that but I’m still a little unclear. Just when I think I’m doing good i shoot an inch left and it drives me crazy. I have also missed both squirrels I have been able to shoot at so far 1 at 35 yards and one at 40 yards, so im not to upset about those.
Top reason for missing
You shoot a spring piston air rifle, but hold it like you would a firearm. You shouldn’t even hold a firearm the way you do, but the velocity of the bullet allows you to get away with it…but a spring-piston air rifle does not! Here, again, is the best way to hold a spring-piston air rifle. Lay the rifle on the flat of your open palm. Don’t touch the side of the stock with your fingers. With some guns, it also matters where along the forearm your hand is. I’ve found that the balance point, which is close to the triggerguard, works for many rifles. With your other hand, grasp the pistol grip as lightly as possible and still control the rifle. Let the butt rest lightly against your shoulder. Same with your cheek. Your goal is to let the rifle kick and move as much as it can when it shoots. Your REAL goal is to keep the vibration nodes the same from shot to shot so the muzzle will be in the same place from shot to shot.
If you’ve been reading this blog for a while, you’ll know that the pellet doesn’t start to move until the piston has come to a stop. Recoil and vibration are underway just as the pellet starts moving. There’s no way to hold a rifle to prevent it from moving, so the next best thing is to hold it so that it always moves in the same way, shot after shot.
Here’s the final step. Sight through the scope, then close your eyes and relax. Open your eyes and look at the crosshairs. They’ve moved off target. Had you shot, your pellet would have moved in the same direction. Adjust your hold so that when you open your eyes, the crosshairs are still on the target. When the shot goes off, do not move for another full second. This is follow-through, and it’s crucial to accuracy. After you’ve done this a few times, you’ll realize that you must relax before making the final sight alignment. Then, your shots will go to the same place, time after time.
This tedious technique drives shooters to PCPs and CO2 rifles!
Second-biggest reason reason for missing
You have adjusted your scope to nearly the extreme for either windage or elevation. The worst is when you are either all the way to the right or all the way up. The erector tube return spring is relaxed and the tube that contains the crosshairs now bounces around with every shot. Solution: get an adjustable scope mount and return the scope adjustment knobs to the center of their range.
Another big one
You’re shooting the wrong pellet! Just because I tout the JSB Exact heavy doesn’t mean it’s the most accurate pellet in all airguns. Try shooting pellets at distance. If you don’t have distance because all your shooting is done in the basement, don’t worry about which pellet gives the best groups at 50 yards.
You owe it to yourself to try as many pellets as you can in your rifle, but don’t waste a lot of time until you have taken care of the first and second problems.
Still another one
Clean your barrel! Use JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound to get the barrel ready to shoot. Even brand-new airguns need to be cleaned this way. Reread the November 17, 2005, posting Is your airgun barrel REALLY clean?.
My final recommendation
Sort your pellets by weight! This will decrease the number of fliers you have, because pellets of equal weight are likely to have the same balance and ballistic characteristics. It doesn’t always work that way, but, more often than not, weight-sorted pellets shoot tighter groups. Read the March 10, 2005, posting Sorting pellets for accuracy.
How do these suggestions compare to one another? The first one can reduce your group size by half. It’s so dramatic that most people think it’s magic the first time it works for them. The scope problem can be just as dramatic or even better. I listed it second only because it doesn’t happen to everybody, while the first problem does. Using the correct pellet is equally dramatic – especially if you’re currently using a particularly bad pellet. Reread my CF-X test to see what I’m talking about. Pellet weighing and barrel cleaning are fractional improvements, with barrel cleaning out-performing pellet weighing.
So, The.Man, those are my thoughts on your problem. Please try some of them and tell us what you learn.
Don’t forget to check all the screws on scope mounts, stock screws etc
Thank You The Man
It is quite humbling to read about BB’s .3″ groups at 45 yds with a gun he has never shot before, with gusting winds – and he probably did it free hand. I’m not even in his ball park – but I’ll keep showing up for try outs. It’s nice to know I’m not alone.
1 question BB, Does it take a few shots for a springer (TX200) to settle down? My first group of 5 is always twice as large as the second. Is it just me adjusting my hold, or is it partly the gun?
Thanks again
MCA
^^^^
The.Man
MCA,
I’m not proud, I know I suck!
B.B.,
I would hate me by now if I were you, you’ve held our hand the whole way yet we still have questions, you’ve done everything but hold the gun for me and yet I have another question(s). I am having difficulty selecting all the cleaning components. I have the cf-x so cleaning from the breech wont work without the Otis Flex kit, which I am unsure of, the only brass brush I see is also for the Otis flex kit, I would imagine this kit would be harder to keep from scratching the bore. Gamo makes a three piece .177 cleaning kit but it doesnt say what type of brush it comes with,I see alot of cleaning pads but they dont specify dry or not. Plus, I am trembling at the thought of noobing up the job and ruining my rifle so…you do you have any input on my ignorance?
I’ve got a somewhat related question.
Last night I put around 40 JSB Exacts in a single hole with my 392. Freaking amazing pellet. I like Premiers, too, but the Exacts beat them by a nose and have nearly the same trajectory. I still buy premiers, becuase they’re cheap, but the Exacts are what I shoot when I need to kill/score high.
Looking at pyramidair’s .22 pellet selection, I saw some interesting things. JSB makes a lot of other pellets, and I’d like to try them.
How are JSB hollow points? I’d like to try the non plastic tipped version. Would you recomend the JSB or the Crow Magnum…I’m looking for a good hollow point in the 392…the Silver Bear just won’t group. How about the other JSBs…are any as great as the Exact?
Thanks BB
Yesterday I finaly got my new phantom in the mail. Shot it only 5 times and while cocking it on the 6th the stalk brok in half.
MCA,
I shoot off a bench and believe me when I say – I am proud of those good groups, too.
I have found a few spring guns and even some PCPs like to have a first shot fired before they want to settle down.
However, YOU settling down is very likely! I always do better after several groups. I think you just have to get in the groove.
B.B.
Ignorance,
Use a brass brush to clean. They don’t scratch steel bores. But it is EXTREMELY difficult to get the brass brush to reverse directions if it’s still in the barrel, and you can’t exit the breech with the rotary breech in the way.
I wouldn’t do it with a new brush. Get a well-used brush and the bristles will reverse with the brush still in the bore. Then the rotary breech isn’t a problem.
Word of caution when useing segmented rods. They tend to unscrew in the bore. So take it out and tighten everything after each stroke both ways.
If you are still doubtful, don’t do it.
B.B.
Hollowpoint man,
I haven’t tried JSB hollowpoints, but I am at the point of trusting almost everything they make.
However, their Predator is not a super accurate pellet. It’s okay in most guns, but not super accurate.
I haven’t had much luck with Crow Magnums in anything, but they do mushroom, so I’d give ’em a try.
B.B.
Phantom,
That was lousy luck. I hope your dealer will make it right for you.
If you bought from Pyramyd AIR I know they will take care of you. Just give them a call.
B.B.
It has been my experience (I am quite an experienced shooter, but a new airgunner) that the most important parts of marksmanship have verry little to do with the mechanics or cleanlyness of the weapon in question (cleanliness is important for safety, and does impact group size, dont get me wrong)
If your groups are wild, check yourself.
sight picture
sight alignment
natural position
relax
breath (holding your breath leads to the barrel jumping with your heartbeat)
squeeze the trigger
hold
somewhere between squeeze and hold the round should fire. Let the recoil do what recoil does. this is good marksmanship practice, and is the mantra that goes through my head with each shot. I group sub-inch at 30 yards with my springer out of the box, and without a bench.
I think the second part of good marksmanship is familiarity with your weapon. Familiarity creates confidence, which translates into relaxing when fireing.
Al,
Thanks for your comments. Especially the one about familiarity. Col. Whelen once said, “Beware of the man with just one rifle.” I think that’s true.
B.B.
Yep, everything he said is exactly right. One thing you can do (I had to) is go backwards. When I tried the follow through and such, it didn’t help, I blamed the gun. So I went and sorted the pellets and got an adjustable mount and everything else. It helped, a little, but groups were still bad. So I finnaly narrowed it down to the real problem. Me. Turns out, the best way to increase accuracy was the first two tips B.B. gave. Plus a lot of practice. Follow every one of those steps for every shot over and over untill it becomes second nature. Then you’ll really get better.
I ended up going to pcp’s. They really are a lot easier to shoot. 😀 Every time I shoot my condor it seems like I’m cheating compared to my Remington Genesis.
So does anyone have experience with the otis flex rods? would that give me the ability to clean from the breech?
Tell me if im wrong but the main concern when cleaning the bore is to make sure the rod doesnt rub the inside of the barrel at either end you’re cleaning from? I mean if you rub it accidently with a certain level of force is where the damage comes from?
The.Man
The.Man,
Otis flex rods are too difficult to use for this process because you have to completely pass the cable through the bore every time. With a solid rod, you can push and pull.
An accidental rub is not a problem, but when people get lazy and start using the muzzle as a guide for the rod, they will wear it out of round.
Yoy can also damage a breech, but the damage isn’t as critical to accuracy until it becomes gross.
B.B.
Now I have a question…
I did a lot of reading before purchacing my air-rifle, but never found the answer to this question.
With 1K fps air rifles (stats I’m sure are taken with the lightest ammo at the muzzle) Will firing a heavier pellet help increace the life of the rifle as compared to firing a lighter grain pellet?
It stands to reason that it would.
If this is answered elsewhere feel free to beat me mercilessly
i cant get a hold of exacts short of shipping, so i stick with gamo’s match. problem with them is, some are just a little tighter and some a just a little more loose. worse yet, my sports store is out of stock for gamo’s, and i have to use the cz pellets. most of them are loose enough that they fall in until stopped by the skirt. in one situation, there was an unfinished pellet in the tin! you could still see the step down that was supposed to be rounded out. as i recall, that super tight pellet shot like a miracle, though there was no way of telling for sure with just oen pellet. is there a way to sort out the undersized/oversized pellets, or will i have to get my hands on a tin of exacts? i have no clue where to buy premiers, though i suspect the crosman branded pellets at wal-mart are in fact premiers.
Re: New Phantom
Can not do better than 2″ at 10 meters, so disgusting. But after reading BB’s pellet seating, tried
to seat pellets 1/8″ or a little more and like a miracle it shoots touching holes. About the Phantom’s
stalk broke in half, what is a stalk?. I can not see anything that can be broken on a Phantom.
Al,
I wish I could say, “Yes, you are correct.” and be done with it. But it isn’t that simple.
The answer is how the air rifle is set up and what type and weight of pellet it “likes,” as in what pellet it responds to best.
If you read the airgun forums, people will tell you that light pellets cause diseling and shorten the life of the mainspring, then others will say that heavy pellets cause piston rebound and that is hard on the spring.
I think it boils down to this – Rats that are experimented on will develop cancer.
For the longest possible life, a spring gun has to be fed pellets that do as little damage to the mainspring as possible. I have found some guns, like the TX200, have a very broad diet of pellets they can accept, while some of the cheapies that generate 1000 f.p.s. (and do little else) are very finicky.
I wish I could give you the one answer you seek, but I don’t know what it is.
B.B.
excelent answer, thank you.
B.B.,
Thanks for the advice, I’m going to the range sunday to work primarily on technique. I have pellets on order since Tuesday so they wont be here by Sunday. I will order some compound later this week but my main focus is technique.
I think my scope is mounted rock solid, I had a local expert help me and he mentioned avoiding the extreme adjustment of the scope and reseated it a few times that day at the range until he liked it, he shoots much more consistent groups than I do with the same gun however he noticed some oddities as well.
I think I might understand what needs to be done now. Once my technique is solid, then I can find the best pellet, then I can sort those pellets, then somwhere along the line I need to find if the pellet likes to be seated deeper and on and on. I did notice when seating the pellet deeper that the gun would make twang or a donging noise when fired so I stopped going deep and just seat them flush. so, you guessed it, here’s another question. Did you experiment with pellet seating when you tested CF-X? and if so, what were the results. Thanks for the specific post, I think it drove it home for me, in two years I’ll read this crap and LMAO.
One comment missing re repeat accuracy – the CFX trigger (unless modified) has quite a long travel compared to some other air-rifles…. could the problem be related to trigger-finger / hand movement pulling the aim just that little bit off line?
I, actually, don’t mind the trigger. I’m able to slowly pull it back to the firing point and hold, I can feel the last bit of tension before the shot pops off so it doesnt bother me. I havent been spoiled by a better trigger so I just dont know any better really, I guess that could be part of the problem. Man, I’ve posted alot of comments on this blog! Thanks for all the advice
The.Man
Hello again, B.B.
Another off-topic question, I’m afraid: In my last post I asked you about the Webley Tomahawk, and you answered that you feel it is a good rifle but lacks a scope stop. My question is this; in a .177 cal. air rifle to be used by a novice (myself, of course) for Field Target shooting, would the Webley be a good gun, or would you lean more toward the BAM 40 and why? Wouldn’t the addition of one of the add-on scope stops which clamp into the scope rails machined in the receiver work to ameliorate the scope creep problem with these rifles? (I mean the Webley). Will parts like seals and springs still be available to fit the Webley Tomahawk in the future? I can manage the price for the HW-77 or even the HW97, but I do not understand why a breakbarrel rifle in 177 cal. would be inferior to an underlever cocking model in 177 for this pursuit, given that both rifles are of quality manufacture. The Webley seems like it would be powerful and would have no trouble knocking over the targets at a healthy distance if the shooter can do his part, of course. Thanks for your time and I look forward to your comments on this topic, as I am having a hard time coming to a decision!
Regards,
Curtis
New Phantom,
I think by “stalk” he means the stock. I notice that the internet encourages pnonetic spelling like Mark Twain used to do.
B.B.
dm20,
Now that you acknowledge the problem, it’s time to join the 21st century and order pellets through the internet. It’s really the only way to operate.
B.B.
The.Man,
No, I didn’t seat the CF-X pellets deep. I just seated them flush. That twanging noise sounds like piston bounce, so you were right to stop seating deep.
Good luck.
B.B.
Brit visitor,
Right you are! I didn’t get into how the trigger pull can affect the gun, but a long pull can be a problem.
B.B.
Curtis,
A breakbarrel is a lot harder to shoot accurately than an underlever or sidelever. They aren’t less accurate, just harder to shoot. Underlevers are inherently more stable. Don’t ask me why, but they are. For field target, where the ultimate in accuracy is required, you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage to use a breakbarrel.
No amount of clamping pressure alone will stop a scope mount from sliding under recoil – to the point that I once collapsed the mainspring tube (the big outer tube of the rifle!) on a Beeman R9 and the scope still slipped.
Why don’t you consider the TX200? You seem to want quality, and they all emulate the TX – even the HW77 that once served as its prototype.
B.B.
I shoot the Daisy Winchester 1000(which I think is actually a hatsan something or other). I found out today that shooting daisy ammo out of it is a mistake. The drop of .5 grains (from crosman 7.9gr to daisy 7.2gr) seems to have pushed the round super-sonic. Accuracy went nutz, couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn.
I guess there is more finess to shooting airguns than I first thought.
I think I may have to try out the crosman premier heavy and the beeman silver arrow.
Hey, BB!
I purchased these /product/h-n-round-lead-ball-graphite-coated-5-50-mm?p=43
And since I’d just read tim gaylords article on round ball vs pellet and better penetration I bought two tins. I did notice that these were 5.50mm. Well, needless to say these badboys rolled straight through my Sumatra’s rotary mag. I ended up using an empty mag and letting one roll down the end of the barrel. I only tried two shots and was concerned about my barrel. Eventhough I’d only be able to probably load right before I wanted to take my shot do you thinnk these are safe, okay for my 2500 and worth it (2 tins =$25 and hopes for better penetrations)
thanks,
Jay
correction : I did NOT notice they were 5.50mm
Hello B.B.,
Thanks for your patience with all my questions. In your answer to me you asked why I don’t consider the TX200, since I seem to want quality. I have considered it, but shyed away from it initially because I had read your blog on the HW77 and HW97 rifles wherein you stated that due to the sliding compression chamber design, the gun gives up power that it would otherwise have. That coupled with the fact that I had lost the tip of a finger in a previous industrial job (many years ago, which gave me a healthy respect for the damage that machinery can do) made me leery of the underlevers. It is only psychological, and not really a great concern. Plus, I just like the LOOKS of the Webley Tomahawk as well as that lovely trigger (I got to fire a friend’s Webley Tom in 22 caliber some time ago and was very impressed with the trigger and its raw power). However, I do not want to make the mistake of having to buy a second rifle after discovering that the Webley isn’t suited to my intended pursuit. So, come Monday, I am going to call Pyramid and cancel my order for the Webley and buy the TX200 instead. Thanks again for your time and consideration.
Regards,
Curtis
Hey BB,
Do you know how to remove the front sight on the IZH-61?
Also I recently got a tin of RWS superdome (250) because I wanted to test some different (cheap) pellets, and wow the uniformity is so amazing! How can they master such nice pellets?
JHodgeCMI,
Unfortunately you give away too much weight with a round ball for best penetration. Gaylord’s article used pellets of nearly equal weight, but an Eun Jin 28-grain pellet should out-penetrate a 15-grain round ball by a large margin.
I have never tried this, so I don’t know that I’m right, but it seems to make sense. Maybe I need to do a test. However, to stay inside a soap bar like he used, I’ll have to use less power than your Sumatra. Everything is relative, though.
B.B.
Curtis,
I think you will love the TX. It’s trigger is even nicer than the Tomahawk’s. And the TX 200 Mark III has one of the most positive anti-beartrap devices around. It’s very safe.
B.B.
hi bb
im having trigger touble on my 392.
not so much the trigger is problomaic but i am. the first stage feels soft and i end up pulling the first stage and holding it befor engaging the second stage. when i try to do a long continuous pull i end up sniping and get terable groups. any thhoughts
A long pull second stage can be a problem. What I would do is lube it with moly grease and see if that smoothes it out.
B.B.
i looked at the beeman meatal to meatal mole paste and it says its not for use on trigger sears
should i try ajusting my technique?
thanks for the help
That warning has been around for 30 years and is disregarded by everyone in airgunning. Moly is used by most custom airgunsmiths on trigger parts. The warning was put there for liability insurance reasons.
And, yes, you do need to keep shooting to improve your technique. By the time you have 5,000 shots on thet gun, you will be shooting it a lot better.
B.B.
BB how do you take the front sight off the IZH 61?
Bryan,
Didn’t you already ask this? And I answered it.
B.B.
How come I can’t see it?
Bryan, IZH Front sight.
If you have a recent one like mine just unscrew the front plastic section, you will be left with the post and a plastic piece that the post sits within. They are pushed onto the end of the barrel. Use something with a little weight and gently tap the plastic sight piece forwards. It should come loose and will probably end up on the ground a few feet away along with the post if mine is any example. You can screw on the front section then by itself to protect the end of the barrel and tidy up the apperance.
Gazza.
Thanks for the help! it looks good with the front sight off and a red dot sight, though the magazine latch will have to be modified so its easier to work.
B.B.
I’ve been looking at a crosman phantom. Do you know anything about this gun? It looks really nice with the 115 dollar price tag, but any idea on how accuracy and power would be?
I haven’t tested the Phantom, but the performance specs given in the description are correct. It’s a 1,000 f.p.s. rifle, which means you can expext lightweight pellets to shoot close to that speed.
As far as accuracy goes, you’ll want to slow it down to 900 or less, which means medium weight pellets. I imaging a rifle like this could group about one inch at 25-30 yards. Being a high power breakbarrel, it will take a lot of handling technique to shoot that well.
B.B.
Curtis…good luck with the TX200. I’ve got one and plan to shoot FT with it sometime in the future. It is still hold sensitive but much less so compared to the CFX (also another gun I own). My advice is to shoot the gun as is to see how you group with it and if you don’t do well, try adding some weight to the back of the stock. The TX200 tends to be front heavy and for me it wants to dip down after I pull the trigger. I ended up making a custom butt stock out of steel plates and drilling a hole at the butt stock for more lead weight to balance the gun. It shoots much better with the extra weight and tends to dampen the recoil somewhat and made the gun less “jumpy”. 1/2″ grouping at 30 yrds in the FT position should be your goal for the 1st year for the TX (5 shot groups). My ultimate goal is 3/8″ in the FT position at 30 yrds (5 shot groups).
Mr Lama,
Here’s my experience on my phantom that shoots touching holes at 10 meters I seat the pellets 1/8″ then you must place the rifle butt just barely touching the shoulder for balance, rifles must rest on your left palm, right hand must also just very softly touching the grip with pressure only slightly on your thump just enought to counter the trigger pull. In short, the whole rifle must be just like floating on air and you will hit where you aim but that needs a lot of practice.
hi BB, you said click adjustments near the extreme ends can affect precision. I hava simons scope, i counted 350 click possible, and i was at 69 away from one end. Is the too extremely off center? I do notice my groups change a bit. Oh, i have a gamo shadow 1000 airgun
There is no set number or percentage of total clickis. When you feel the detents in the adjustment knob grow soft and mushy you are in the zone where there can be internal movement. Each scope uses a different spring, so it is impossible to boil it down to numbers. Do it by feel.
Movement can also be caused by changes in eye placement with every shot, so check that first.
B.B.
wow, soo many things to remember on every shot. This airgun sport is tougher than having a girlfriend!
BB,
Trouble with my 22SG again. Last time it was a loose barrel, but when I shake it there’s no rattling noise at all. As of the last few days I started plinking again, and no matter how I adjust the scope, it is off by as far as 2 inches @ 50 Feet after a shot or two. Assuming the barrel’s tight and I’m aiming correctly (of which I will re-read the above fundamentals and RE-practice on), what else could make such a sudden change in my rifle? Need a light cleaning? Scope breaking internally? JP
BB,
Another question: I think I need a rifle butt extension because the stock on my 22SG seems just a bit short for my using the scope effectively (prone/bench shooting – Standing up seems to be ok). I suspect this is part of any aiming problems. Does Pyramydair carry something of this order? JP
JP,
If your scope adjustments are all the way up or to the right, the erector tube may be loose inside and floating. Any impact will move it.
Another problem may be extreme parallax. Are you using a positive spot-weld when you mount the rifle, so your eye is always in the same place?
B.B.
Butt extension,
Pyramyd AIR doesn’t carry anything. The plastic stock makes it difficult to add anything to the butt of this gun. Maybe a recoil pad that slips over the buttstock would work. Try Midway USA.
B.B.
BB
Hate to bother you again, but is it possible that a rifle will change it’s tastes in pellets? My 22SG used to be ok with “off the shelf” wadcutters, but it went beserk. After careful testing with other pellets, it’s mostly accurate (3/8″ at 50 ft), but every third or fourth shot is off by 2 INCHES. Surely a bad pellet couldn’t throw off THAT much at such a short distance. I remember what you said about the scope adjustment, but it doesn’t look over-extended. I’ll keep trying, but I wonder if my rifle is just plain bad. JP
JP,
I think your barrel may be loose. This seems to be a problem with the 22SG and there isn’t a good solution for it. Other readers have complained of the same accuracy problems.
B.B.