by B.B. Pelletier
Two Webley Typhoon owners gave me a report on their guns following the first part of this report. Airdog notes that the sights move as the trigger is squeezed, which he says is disconcerting. He says he tries to hold his pistol lightly, but the hard trigger works against him. Western PA says he can’t get a scope to stay put, and he dislikes the open sights that come with the gun. On the plus side, he notes that the gun is very powerful – something I’ll touch on today. He thinks it needs a solid stock and that it might be nicer as a carbine than it is as a pistol.
I shot the pistol a lot for this report. One thing I observed is that it sprays oil droplets from somewhere (I’m assuming the muzzle, at this point). So keep it away from the upholstered furniture and off your car seats.
This is a powerful air pistol, as you will see. I leave the cocking aid on the barrel while I shoot, and it slides forward anywhere from one-half to three-quarters of an inch with the shot. The aid increases the length of the cocking lever, making the cocking stroke very light for the power.
RWS Supermags
RWS Supermags are a heavier wadcutter that sometimes can be accurate in lower-powered airguns. They ranged in weight from 9.1 grains to 9.3 grains. Velocity went from a low of 365 f.p.s. up to 379 and averaged 374 f.p.s. They fit extremely tight in the breech. They produce 2.86 foot-pounds and are probably too heavy for this pistol.
RWS Superdome
RWS Superdomes are sometimes surprisingly accurate in certain airguns. They will even out-shoot Crosman Premiers on occasion. They weigh 8.1 to 8.4 grains and averaged 437 f.p.s., with a spread from 425 to a high of 448 f.p.s. They fit the breech snugly. That’s good for 3.56 foot-pounds.
Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets
The Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets I shot weighed either 7.8 or 7.9 grains and averaged 487 f.p.s. Ranging from a low of 481 to a high of 493, they fit the breech very tightly. They tied for power champs at 4.16 foot-pounds.
Gamo Tomahawk
The Gamo Tomahawks weighed between 7.6 and 7.8 grains and averaged 463 f.p.s. They fit the breech both tight and loose, which is probably why they had an extreme velocity spread from a low of 448 f.p.s. to a high of 494. That’s good for 3.67 foot-pounds.
Gamo Match
Gamo Match pellets weighed either 7.4 or 7.5 grains. They fit the breech snuggly and averaged 495 f.p.s , with a range from 489 to 501. That’s just over 4 foot-pounds.
H&N Finale Match
H&N Finale Match did not vary in weight. All pellets weighed 7.4 grains. They fit the breech snuggly and averaged 503 f.p.s., with a range from 493 to 509 f.p.s. They tied with Premiers as the power champs, at 4.16 foot-pounds.
RWS Hobby
RWS Hobbys are the lightweights of the all-lead pellet world, and these ranged from 6.9-grains to 7.2 grains. They fit the breech very tight and averaged 501 f.p.s. The low was 481 and the high was 512, which is a large spread for this pistol. They delivered an average of 3.9 foot-pounds.
I’m getting used to the trigger, although I still think it is far too heavy to do good work – especially for a handgun. The pistol isn’t quite in the Beeman P1 category for power, but it’s close. A P1 will shoot Hobbys around 550-560 f.p.s. when broken in.
BB,
Sorry to be off topic, but I have been slowly reading your blog since I came across it about a month ago. I had an air gun as a kid and recently have gotten interested in them again. I also want to introduce my son to shooting. I have been very interested in the story of Luck McDaniel and Instinct shooting (Instinct Shooting with a BB Gun, Part 1 & 2, October 4-5, 2006) and Chief AJ.
On the Chief’s website, he has for sale the “Chief AJ Special Edition Daisy Instinct Shooting BB Gun”. His web site states “Only the AJ can take this hard cocking and shooting.” , “The AJ Daisy is all beefed up…” and “Only 1,695 AJ‘s have been made by Daisy in the USA to chief AJ’s Specifications.”, but the website doesn’t go into any more detail. I see where the length of pull is longer for adults and the drop of comb is greater, but is the stock the only difference versus a standard Red Ryder or has Daisy used heavy duty parts internally?
I plan on contacting the website for an answer; however, I’d like your input as an unbiased party.
It basically comes down to whether his Special Edition and its upgrades are worth the extra money over a standard Red Ryder.
Thank you for your time,
Kenneth
Kenneth,
I’ve seen Chief AJ (at the Daisy Get-Together in Michigan) and his airgun, but I don’t know about the internals. All I know is what you already know – that the stock has been lengthened for adults.
As for Daisy guns “taking it,” some of the Army Daisy instinct shooters clocked an estimated 20 million shots (with rebuilds of spring plunger assemblies), so I doubt there can be much of a gain on that.
B.B.
you know I always had a zen for lever action guns like the Daisy. I wish someone would engineer an adult size version that could shoot 4.5mm round balls or 4.5/5.5mm pellets (single shot; or with a revolving mag) accurately at 500-600fps. I would spend $200-$400 for a gun like that easily. Is this too much to ask? It would be a joy to walk through the woods with a 5.5mm version, and confidently hunt like a rifleman.
BB,
Just curious. Could you possibly tell me/us what is the best/your favorite air gun from each manufacturer? Also, Your most favorite air gun of all time? One more request. What is the most accurate air gun you’ve ever shot? If it is A custom or A hand made special, what is the most accurate regular production air gun you’ve ever shot?
Thanks,
BobC NJ
Zen,
There have been several airguns and air rifles made with specifications similar to what you want, though no lever actions. However, $400 isn’t going to buy one!
They sell used for $600-1,000.
I refer to the VZ 35, the VZ 49 and the Diana model 30 gallery gun. The VZs are rifles and shoot 4.4mm lead balls. The Diana is a gun and shoots special ball bearings.
I don’t know of any lever actions like this.
B.B.
BobC,
My answer needs thought. It’s larger than this comments section. I’d have to think about it awhile.
B.B.
Anonymous,
Regarding your question about lever action rifles, Check out this Pyramyd AIR site: /brands/walther?mid=14
BobC NJ
BB,
Thanks BB, much appreciated.
BobC
B.B.,
Off topic, but is a diopter sight just a fancy peep sight, with an eye cup, better adjustments, and placed closer to the shooter’s eye? To me diopter implies some kind of optics, but that isn’t the case, is it?
Thanks,
Pestbgone
Pestbgone,
You have it right. In fact, there really is no clear line between what is a diopter and what is a peep. The names are used interchangeably.
B.B.
BB,
Thanks for clearing my confusion.
Pestbgone
B.B.,
My latest guess for the new Whisper suprise is a 22 Cal. CO2 or PCP version that really is super quite?
LS
Hi BB. This is a followup on my previous question regarding lubrication of my R9. I have shot 1000 – 1200 pellets throught it. There is “funney” noise when I cock it. But the noise is not all that loud and may have been there all the time. I may have just started noticing after reading posting about lubrication. The noise seems to be associated with the spring compressing. My wife describes it at “ratchety”. So do I need to lubricate something?
Thanks,
Mike T.
Mike,
Thank your wife for accurately describing the sound. Now I can help you.
That sound is the sound of a dry mainspring being compressed. As the coils start and stop inside the spring tube they make the sound of a ratchet.
Remove the action from the stock and drop 10 drops of spring oil on the coils of the mainspring. Then shoot the gun at least 25 times to spread the oil around.
A better solution and much more permanent is to have the rifle tuned. The airgunsmith will apply one of several types of high-tech lubricant to the mainspring and it won’t have to be lubricated again for another 10 years.
B.B.
B.B.
I’m also intrigued by the Lucky McDaniel story and read the Mike Jennings book that you recommended with great interest. I have one technical question. The directions in the book are all about shooting objects thrown up in the air (for which you look above) and for small objects on the ground well below the line off sight (for which you look below). They never mention shooting things on a level. Am I right in assuming that you look directly at it?
Secondly whatever happened to the army’s quick kill program based on this system? It seems invincible but it has obviously been supplanted. The bits and pieces I’ve gathered sound like the army is using some version of a flash or partial sight picture derived from the “modern technique” of pistol shooting. Anyway, I would be interested to hear what beat out the Lucky McDaniel system.
Also, on the subject of the personal history, I would be interested in what got you interested in airgunning. The blurb on the Pyramid site is very brief. Whatever impressed you obviously made a lasting impression.
Matt
Matt,
As I understand it, the army came back to instinct shooting several times, but no longer with BB guns.
As for what happened to Lucky’s program, I guess it’s in the hands of people like Chief AJ now.
My personal history? Sounds like a snoozer, but if you can drum up a few others who want it too, I will oblige.
B.B.
Hi bb,
Sorry if this is off topic but I have a question.
I got a hoppes 9 airgun (.177 cal) cleaning kit, and the rod seems to be made of steel.
Will this hurt the barrel if it rubs againt it while cleaning?
I have a cleaning rod for my .22lr and it is brass which seems like it would be much safer for the barrel/crown what do you think?
Steel rod,
There are two schools of thought on this. Robert Beeman said steel rods can’t get grit embedded in them, so they are best. Coated rods are the worst because grit can embed in them and they become files.
Harry Pope, the famous barrelmaker, said if you use a steel rod you also must use a rod guide. The steel rubbing against the softer barrel steel will wear it over time.
I’m in the middle on this. I use steel rods and I try to protect the bore any way I can.
B.B.
Sorry for shifting thread topic:
A question about the Beeman C1 carbine safety lever. I have one which has a safety lever on left hand side or receiver Has California address, made in Great Britain stamp.
Another person has one which has NO SAFETY lever whatsover – was that an early production model, or just a fluke? I can’t imagine that decision to build one on purpose.
Thanks in advance for answer – have a great day.
The C1 is a Webley and as far as I know, they are all supposed to have safeties. Mine had one.
B.B.
Matt,
Id read about bbs history.
Nate in Mass
B.B.
Well, I’ll settle for BobC’s question about the most accurate airgun you’ve ever shot. I also didn’t mean a lifestory necessarily, but how about whatever Robert Beeman or his catalog showed you–as described in the blurb–that made you turn your interest to airguns in such a decisive way.
Matt
Matt,
Okay, that makes sense. I’ll do it.
B.B.
BB –
What’s the signifigance of how a pellet fits regarding tight vs. loose fits? (uh, you low lifes out there – get your mind out of the gutter!)
Ozark
BB,
I’d also like to know A little more about the man who’s opinion I respect very much. Can’t wait for responce, I know you’ll give us the straight scoop.
Thanks,
BobC
P.S. to Ozark , LOLLOLLOL
I would enjoy reading about BB as well. and It would be intresting to read BB’s comments about the best air guns from each manufacturer. WOW what big project that could turn into.
Joe G from Jersey
BB,
I’d also like to read about how you came to be so interested in airgunning. Your favorites would be great also.
Back to instinct shooting. Did you read anything from Leon Measures?
Here’s his website. http://www.shootwhereyoulook.com
and old- http://www.shootwhereyoulook.com/old/index.htm
I read his book (borrowed), practiced what he recommended and it helped my snap shooting a lot. It’s amazing how good you can get without even aiming! He used to just recommend a Red Ryder, that you can take the sights off of yourself. I used a Beeman Silver Bear 1783 for my practice, and just left the scope caps on. Of course, I was living in the hills with no close neighbors at the time. Dandelion puffs at 7 yards are great fun!!
/Shooter
BB,
I’m looking for a valve for an older airgun, the Crosman Model 70.
Do you know where I might be able to locate parts for older airguns?
I live in Canada and I’ve already contacted my Canadian Crosman dealer. They don’t have the part I need. I’m hoping somewhere in the U.S might have what I need.
Thanks in advance.
Air-Shooter.
Air-Shooter
You might try jgairguns.biz They have a lot of parts for older crosman guns. If the pellgun oil trick dosent work.
I ordered from them and had no problems.
JoeG in Jersey
Ozark,
Tight-fitting pellets offer greater resistance to the compressed air than loose pellets. That, in turn, helps to cushion the piston. I believe that tighter pellets are more important than shooting pellets of the right weight. The goal would be to have pellets of the optimum weight that are also at least snug in the breech.
B.B.
Everyone,
I will do a blog about what got me started in airgunning and the most accurate pellet rifle I ever shot.
B.B.
/Shooter,
I have never read anything by Leon Measures. I did look at his site and read quite a bit of it. Have you taken his course or bought his video?
B.B.
Air-Shooter,
There are several places here in the U.S. where you might look. This is probably the best place to start:
B.B.
Thanks BB and JoeG. I’ll check out JG.
Air Shooter.
Hi BB,
I read Leon Measures’ book (borrowed it from a friend) and just practiced the techniques in it. There’s a lot of basic stance and mounting the gun. This gets you to the neutral stance and hold that you were telling us about, which helps us whether or not we’re using the sights. Your muscles memorize the whole relationship between stance, hold, and cheek weld so that you don’t even need sights. Just like point and shoot with shotguns, only with a rifle. You don’t even see the sights. You graduate to shooting stationary targets after the practice in the mirror, and then move up to moving or thrown targets. It’s important not to get ahead of yourself in the book though, as thousands of repetitions are what it takes to get that muscle memory refined enough to continue without getting frustrated. I never did get to the shooting aspirin tablets out of the sky, as life gets in the way sometimes, but I chased many pine cones down the hill with my 1322 after throwing them out in front of me. Not really paying much attention to where they were ending up while I was pumping and loading for another shot, I would acquire the pine cone again after loading, point and shoot without aiming. Depending on how far it was from me, I would hit about 75- 85% of the time. His methods work with rifles and pistols, and is a lot of fun! Not to mention another excuse to shoot a lot… Which is just what we all need. I just don’t know who thought of this first. Leon or someone else. It’s kind of like trying to find out who was the first to develop martial arts like Karate or Kung Fu. But I don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. It works. Sorry, got a little long here…
/Shooter
/Shooter,
Thanks for that report. I really need a form of instinct shooting for my concealed carry training.
B.B.
BB,
You’re welcome. As I said, it works. I was able to score a 296/300 on my concealed carry qualifying round with a pistol I’d never shot before that day. This is our standard police qualifying procedure here in Colorado, used in the concealed carry class I took. I used the range’s Springfield XD in .40 and shot almost a box of ammo through it just before qualifying. I attribute this to all the pistol work that I did with Leon’s book. The 4 points I missed? Well… I always have to throw a couple. Still thinking I like that XD. Might have to get one of those too, but I don’t like the lack of a true double action second try in case of a misfire. Other than that, it’s a great gun from all reports.
Glad to see my old Crosman 760 in today’s (Thanksgiving) report. Even if it is pink…
Happy Thanksgiving, BB!
/Shooter