Predom target pistol by Lucznik

by B.B. Pelletier

The weather has been poor, so I haven’t gotten to the range to test that Hammerli Storm Elite, yet. Now, I’ll add the Remington Genesis to the test, because I have not done part 3 as promised. I also have a Mendoza RM-2000 on deck for testing, so my spring-gun plate is overflowing.

Today, being a miserable rainy day, I thought I’d test a gun many of you will never see. The Predom by Lucznik!

HUH?


Lucznik’s Predom is a close copy of the Walther LP53, which, in turn, copies Walther’s Olympia target pistol.

A little history
Lucznik is a Polish gun factory, possibly the state firearms factory, or what we might call an arsenal. They make military weapons. In the 1970s and ’80s, they also made a curious single-shot pellet pistol that was a knock-off of the famous Walther LP53. The LP53 is most famous as the gun Sean Connery held for many publicity photos for James Bond films. Because they were filming in the UK, it was easier for the film’s media team to use an airgun than a firearm. And, if you’re going to use an airgun, the LP53 is as realistic as it gets!

The gun
The Predom is a .177 caliber breakbarrel that cocks in a very strange way. The piston is located vertically in the pistol grip and, upon firing, springs upward. The sales hype for the Walther LP53 always used to say the gun was designed to replicate the recoil of a .22 Walther Olympia target pistol, but the truth is that it feels nothing like it. Instead, it feels like a baseball bat has cracked in your hand, or perhaps a mousetrap you were holding went off. It doesn’t pinch or hurt – just vibrates with a shock.


Breaking the barrel pushes on the triggerguard that is also a cocking link. The mainspring and piston are in the grip. Be careful! This gun has no anti-beartrap and can close suddenly from this position if the trigger is pulled.

To fit in the grip, the piston has to be small and the stroke has to be short – neither good for great power. When I tested several LP-53s, they were always in the lower 300s with lightweight target wadcutters such as RWS Hobbys. In spite of the small piston, the grip on the Predom is hand-filling at the very least. I wouldn’t call it a large grip, just a trifle fat.

It’s a biggie!
This is a large air pistol. It’s constructed mostly of steel, though the frame is aluminum. The gun weighs 39.6 oz. and is just under 12.5″ long. Because of the strange design, which is best seen in the photo of the cocking process, the barrel is almost 9.5 inches long, but not all that length is rifled. There is a whopping 3.5″ freebore at the front! On the Walther, a much shorter freebore was used to accept a pin from a cocking device that protected the hand from the sharp front sight. A freebore means the barrel has been drilled out to a larger diameter than .177, and of course that part of the barrel is not rifled. Freebore protects the crown of the muzzle, but I would love to know why this pistol has such a deep one.

Hard to cock
This design is a real bear to cock. I estimate that it takes at least 35 lbs. of effort to break open the barrel to the point that the sear catches the piston. With the Walther cocking aid, cocking was tolerable, but the Predom didn’t come with one. I have no idea if it ever had such a device, but it sure needs one.

The front sight is a fixed post and the rear is a notch adjustable in both directions. It’s stiff but very crisp. And, I cannot complain about the accuracy. I get 3/4″ groups and better at 10 meters.


Rear sight adjusts both ways. This is a nice target pistol that deserves these good sights.

I didn’t expect the power to be greater than the Walther’s, but here the Predom surprised me. It shot 7-grain Hobbys at 400-411 f.p.s. – a full 100 f.p.s. faster than I was expecting. The piston is powered by a double mainspring, a smaller-diameter inner spring and a larger-diameter outer one.

Can you say DEAL?
But the biggest news about the Predom isn’t its performance or history. Like many deals I have told you about in the past, the Predom is a deal RIGHT NOW! They have flooded the U.S. market to the point that the Blue Book’s suggested value of $350 has gone out the window. You will find them selling for $50-90 on the gun auction sites right now. Sportsman’s Guide apparently unloaded several recently, and they’re showing up at gun shows. So, if you want a crazy oddball air pistol, the time is right now.

I have no idea how well made these guns may be. They look very stout, but that doesn’t mean they are. If you do go after one, caveat emptor!

69 thoughts on “Predom target pistol by Lucznik

  1. bb.off the subject again,when you have a new spring powerd air rifle, out off the box, what would you call an acceptable running in period,if the gun was not accurate withing 1500 shots with a pellet it was suppose to like,and apart from trying other pellets and cronographing the gun to see if ther was an extreme power spread in fps, if ther wasent, what would you consider,apart from the barrle being the problem, would you look at before going back to the manufacture!



  2. I’m thinking about getting one of these Polish pistols. I had a Pre war polish Radom 9 mm once. A beautiful, well made gun. Thanks for the article.


  3. Nathan,

    I would give a gun at least 1,000 shots before making the accuracy call, but what does “accurate” mean?

    With most Chinese spring guns, a one-inch group at 30 yards is very accurate. For Weihrauch and Air Arms, you can push that out to 40-45 yards, and occasionally you’ll get a good 50-yard group.

    Turkish rifles tend to group like Chinese guns and Russian guns are closer to Weihrauch. Diana is right there with Wehrauch.

    Et cetra.

    B.B.


  4. After you get your Predom and shoot it awhile, how about telling us your story? I’m sure the readers would enjoy a second opinion, plus you’ll undoubtedly see things I missed.

    B.B.


  5. Hello B.B.,

    Last friday (4/27) I asked you a question about using .177 Eun Jin 16.1gr pellets in the Gamo-CFX, and RWS 350/460 magnums, for 10/15 yard hunting. I thought I would report back to you.

    I removed the oil from a number of pellets (don’t know if this is necessary, but did it anyway) and proceeded to shoot them through the Gamo-CFX. I don’t have a chrony so I couldn’t test velocity, but there was not any discernable lag from trigger pull to target impact/penetration, in comparison to shooting mid-heavy (8.8gr-10.6gr) pellets (even though I know velocity is less). Groups were on target (very-very nice, with greater stability) without any scope adjustments. If I didn’t know I was shooting this heavier pellet, I never would have guessed it to be heavier.

    Right after testing these pellets, I spotted a squirrel 17/20 yards out (limitation of my backyard), with his back toward me at an angle. I caught him with the 16.1gr Eun Jin on target, angled behind his left ribs toward his right shoulder. I took him very cleanly/humanely. He fell over, gasped twice, and expired, without over-penetrating (pellet remained inside, and his body absorbed all the energy).

    If they work this well in the Gamo-CFX, i’m sure you are right about the RWS magnums (assuming they seat in the loading port well).

    There is a question in all of this.
    Do heavier pellets in (magnum) springers act more favorably on the powerplant? Do they dampen the impact of the mainspring? As long as I’m getting desirable groups and velocity, would you expect any negative effects of using this heavier pellet on the powerplant?

    Thanks, as always.


  6. Squirrel,

    First, thanks for the feedback.

    Next, I don’t feel heavy pellets are a problem for most spring guns, but I hear a lot of chatter on the forums to the contrary. Those people say heavy pellets cause the piston to rebound and eventually bend or break.

    I think too-light pellets can be a problem, but not too-heavy pellets. But that’s only my opinion.

    However, when I have demonstrated success like you did with your CF-X, I tend to go right on doing what works for me.

    B.B.


  7. squirrel, BB,

    yes its a heavy pellet, in 177. 16g is an average 22 cal pellet. I think that WOULD mean 22 cal is a bad pic for sprigers. it is key that i said WOULD because i dont actualy believe this. I think that 22 cal is better for magnum guns. Does the fact that there is more foom for decompression in a 22 cal barrel have to do with anything?
    -sumo



  8. Thanks for your insight, as always.

    Some of these things feel like hit or miss. I have a 20/25 yard max on available shots to take the squirrels in my backyard and trees, before I’m infringing on neighbors. I have to focus alot on potential misses, over-penetrating (which leads to a wayward pellets), killing humanely, etc.

    I had great success with pneumatics and CO2 rifles before I bought the CFX (my first springer), but the kills were not always as humane, and the pneumatics didn’t offer quick follow up shots if necessary. Now I could use the Sumatra 2500 in .22, but thats just way to much gun for such a small space.

    Maybe the space is even too small for the CFX, but when I connect its always immediate/humane success. Any pellet I’ve used at/within the 20/25 yard range with the CFX, though highly accurate, has over-penetrated if I can’t take a head shot. Hollow points not as often, but depends on placement.

    The reason why I opted for the 16.1gr Eun Jins is to slow down the pellet hopefully enough to not over-penetrate and unload a hell of alot of energy, but it seems now like they have the potential for powerplant damage (but I’m with you, heavier should be better than too-light).

    Maybe I should try a medium weight wadcutter (even though I am keeping in mind your suggestion of doing what tends to be working).

    For .177 rifles like the CFX, and RWS magnums, what would be your weight range definitions/spreads for light, medium, and heavy pellets?


  9. squirell
    how bout heavy wadcutters? they definetly wouldnt over penetrate and would bring your velocity down

    Field Targetier


  10. Squirrelkiller,
    the CFX and RWS mags are both much too powerful for anything less than 8g. I would use 10.5g crosman p or jsb exacts(10.2). The best may be the logun penitrator(9.5) for longer shots. Those are all on the mid heavy side. At less than 20 yards there is nothing better than a 16g eun jin. the 16g pellet prodces so much truma on small game. I have an AF condor and that is the one hell of a pellet in it. Another monumental aspect od the diablo pellet; they should be round nose / domed. I find them superior at all ranges. A CFX is not likely to kill anyone with the exception of a well placed head shot. Its the court that gets you. HAHA. There is no better gun for your conditions. The cfx kills but is not overkill. Try logan penitrators(9.5g), they will get the job done.
    FEILD TARGETIERS GOT A POINT but i wouldent sugjest anything but dome pellets.


  11. Field Targetier and anonymous,

    I might have to experiment with wadcutters, but I am thinking for my distance that the 16gr Eun Jins are ok.

    Something, my mind won’t let go of, is just how much difference/effect a 16gr pellet has over a 8gr/10gr trying to leave the barrel. I realize its twice the weight, but we are talking minimally inclined/horizontal movement versus vertical.

    Doesn’t matter if there is a 1000 pound ball or a 2000 pound ball, I wouldn’t be able to lift either vertically. However, I may be able to push them horizontally or at a slight incline. I would have to overcome more friction with the 2000 pound ball, but is that friction twice as much as the 1000 pound ball.

    Now we have two pellets in a barrel at a slight incline or horizontal (depending on the shot). Yes the friction on the 16gr pellet would be greater to get it started (and maybe this is where the potential powerplant damage exists) than the 8gr pellet, but my mind says this is miniscule, even if the weight is twice as much.

    In previous blogs, the chrony test for the CFX with an 8gr pellet was 873fps, and for the 10gr pellet was 785fps. This is a 25% increase in weight, with only a 10%-11% decrease in speed (realizing skirt shape and seat/seal in the barrel affect this also).

    Then there is weight distribution within the barrel. Both pellets, regardless of weight are going to encounter friction from the barrel surface all the way around. Their weight is distributed on the lower half circle of the barrel.

    I’m probably getting alot wrong here, but I just don’t see the harm in using the 16.1gr pellet.

    Then again, I can’t argue there is not piston/power-plant damage happenning in spring-guns when heavy pellets are being used, if indeed it is happenning.


  12. p.s. – Anonymous I was using 10.2 JSB exacts before I tried the Eun Jin. They went straight through the squirrel just like he wasn’t there. Crowmagnums and Predators would do this from time to time. I must have a pretty powerful CFX.


  13. p.p.s. – I made the statement earlier that “Then there is weight distribution within the barrel. Both pellets, regardless of weight are going to encounter friction from the barrel surface all the way around. Their weight is distributed on the lower half circle of the barrel.”, but is this only true if the pellet is loosely seated. If it is a tight seated pellet, does the top half of the barrel carry some of the burden of supporting the pellet?

    Ok…I’m thinking too much…


  14. O sorry, i meant jsb/cp/logun are what i would use for longer shots. They do go through squirrels was i was not trying to say they dont.

    i can say with confidence heavy pellets do not damige springs. The spring stops abruply anyway.

    modern pellets are made very well in terms of diamiter. The pellet is moving so that takes most pressure off. And its turning. Pellets are stable because of their waist (diablo) not because they are turning. Turns help with the issue you stated and that is why airgun barrels are still riffled.

    sorry again,
    the above unsined anonymous was me

    -sumo



  15. Squirrel

    Gravity is orders of magnitude separated from representing the dominant force working upon the pellet in the airgun’s barrel. To calibrate the magnitude of your misunderstanding, if gravity was anywhere near the level of accelerant force, you may as well drop the pellet on the ground rather than “shoot” it.


  16. in your aloofness i think you sorely miss squirrel’s concern. he is not discussing gravity but weight or mass. gravity works on objects the same regardless of weight or mass. but the separate dominant force you mention acts on both objects differently because of the force necessary to overcome their weight to set them in motion. this affect is what is supposedly causing the rebounding of pistons and bending or breaking them when heavier pellets are being used. gravity is the same for both objects, weight is different. in your mind, shoot an 8gr pellet through your springer, then a 50gr, and then tell me the what happens.



  17. BB,
    Is there any accuracy difference between 392 and 397? How big is the 5 shot group at 30 yards for each of them? Thanks.


  18. Then why do user manuals say “do not dryfire your gun” and say nothing about heavy pellets. If fire at a level angle the pellet fals just as fast as if you droped it. It simply travels far before gravity can pull it al the way down to the ground. This is why guns with higher velocity have less drop. Without any factors but gravity the terminal velocity of all things is the same. However density/ wight helps exceleration. Were in hell do you get a 177 50 cal pellet. Uranium pellets? HAHA. I am taling about realistic pellets. I did miss his point dident i. what i was saying b4 is the pellet is going faster than terminal velocity, rendering gravity futile. I dont know what i am talking about so feel free to yell at me.

    p.s. who is that guy? and did the same person write “wow, how did that guy miss the point about weight and go to gravity” as the post b4 it?

    -sumo



  19. just like in squirrel’s inquiries, you missed me say “in your mind” shoot an 8gr vs 50gr pellet. it was an extreme example to evoke imagination like what was used to describe if “gravity was anywhere near the level of accelerant force”. seems like squirrel has moved on to either shooting his eun jins or using wadcutters. using .177 pellets, he is going to have a hard time with overpenetrating, they are just too small regardless, especially at those speeds.


  20. Huh?

    “Then there is weight distribution within the barrel…..”:

    That guy (me) got to his conclusions with fundamental understanding of Newtonian physics.

    Pellets don’t slowly roll out the barrel. They are axially forced out by linear pressure supplied by the spring’s stored energy delivered by air pressure. This force is far greater over the time interval of interest that the force of gravity.

    Friction in the lower half of the barrel has nothing do with the presence of, nor absence of back-pressure on the springer’s piston dynamics


  21. i did not miss that, i was joking. At the same time i was also saying it does not cause problem using the heAVIEST 177S OR 22s. See how i said HAHA. Sorry to sound like an idiot. I wonder what would happen if the barrel was filled with appoxy or fine cemint. That would be an extreme. I think that woulfd be about the same as dry firing it. So tell me, what is your side. You keep giving me hints that you think it is bad to use heavy pellets but you have not toled me directly.

    -sumo


  22. I don’t believe using heavy pellets in magnum springers is an issue, but who am i?
    if you are going to make a statement like “Friction in the lower half of the barrel has nothing do with the presence of, nor absence of back-pressure on the springer’s piston dynamics”, then take the time to tell us what does.
    it has been said that heavier pellets cause this issue. squirrel was mainly discussing friction and weight, regardless of lower half of barrel. friction is the force necessary to overcome to set an object in motion. more weight, more friction. more surface areas contacting, more friction. this isn’t my fight, but stay on point.




  23. My simple point is that gravitational forces are irrelevant.

    Sure, frictional forces in the barrel are significant; Are you going to now argue that it matters whether you hold the gun “upside down”????


  24. jesus, squirrel never mentioned gravitional forces. he mentioned weight and friction. based on how i have responded previously, why would you imagine i would take any position on whether the gun was held “upside down”?



  25. Sumo,

    I have always thought the greater volume of the .22 barrel is the reason .22 is a better caliber for powerful guns. .177 caliber seems to give up too much power potential when the power rises above about 18-19 foot pounds.

    On the other hand, .25 caliber should be even better than .22, but for one reason or another – less accuracy or lower velocity – I always end up liking .22 caliber best. I don’t think that’s correct; it’s just how I feel.

    B.B.


  26. Squirrel,

    I am learning from you on this matter. Before your experience, I would never have thought of loading a super heavyweight pellet into a spring rifle of .177 caliber.

    So the Remington Genesis and Hammerli Storm Elite tests I do will each have at least one super heavyweight, in your honor.

    Because of this, I will tell you that formerly I would have stopped at 10.6 grains for magnum .177s. And I would have thought that lighter pellets would have been better (more accurate). But we shall see.

    B.B.


  27. Thanks B.B.,

    Keep in mind, I’m only shooting within the 20/25 yard range. I have no idea what the longer range accuracy would be, and even different spring guns I’m guessing might peform differently.

    If you can tell, I really love my CFX. Sure its not the most refined or prettiest. I just can’t believe I paid less than $200 for so much power, accuracy, and consistency, and its simple/easy to maintain.

    Gamo doesn’t import any of their .22 caliber guns to the US, but I think its crazy that they don’t offer the CFX in .22, even if its the only one.

    Thanks again.


  28. p.s. – I read some of the posts above, and I guess I have to keep in mind over-penetration is always a factor in using .177 pellets due to their size and speed.

    Its funny how an airgunner can evolve. First I was taking squirrels, by trying to accurately “shoot at” them. Now I’m focusing on refining my shots for “humane” kills, “loss/waste” of pellet energy due to “pellet pass-thru”, etc. This is a fun science for me,…not so much for my quarry.


  29. One last thing, and then I will shut up.

    After reading the previous posts here, and your subject today (5/3), I’m confused.

    Do the super-weight pellets have the potential of causing increased back-pressure, which can in turn increase the potential for detonation (more back-pressure increasing heat),….which can in turn harm pistons? I just can’t see the heavier pellet causing a substantial amount of back-pressure.

    Or is it the result of the elusive quest for speed and power in springers, that over the long-haul are going to suffer damage regardless of pellet weight? At these magnum forces, it seems with time, something would have to give,…the seals, the piston, or the spring. Maybe its just an issue of design and materials being used.

    Thanks




  30. I’m going to need some proof that ultra heavy pellets are bad for spring piston airguns. I don’t believe it.

    I mounted a Bug Buster scope on my ShinSung Career Fire 201S to shoot mice at 6 yards. (kidding) If you’re shooing small game at close range get an airgun with less power.


  31. Squirrel,

    Please be paitent and I will try to explain tomorrow.

    Regarding how far you have advanced, I get to see that very clearly from where I sit. It’s always neat when a person learns more about anything and becomes an expert in their own right. I enjoy talking with such people because I know how it feels to go on these journeys.

    B.B.

    B.B.


  32. Squirrl,

    you are probably overthinking things, but you are evoking great dialogue, that goes beyond just pulling the trigger. i like seeing this on blogs.
    think of it this way, as if we lived in a perfect world. this means every cock of your cfx would produce the same amount of potential pressure and heat when you pull the trigger. this pressure is the force acting on the pellet, and since we are pretending we are in a perfect world, this force is the same every time. so remember force is always equal. now you are introducing two different weigted pellets, that is you only variation. that same force will act upon the different weighted in different ways, which we can immediately see in speed variations. thats it in a nutshell.
    the detonation b.b. is talking about, is a result of oil (fuel) sporadically being present/available when the trigger is pulled, and the compression happens. the amount of oil that may potentially cause the detonation, is not always present, it is the variant, which causes variations in pressure.
    i wouldn’t trade in ur cfx for a lower powered airgun for your range and results you are experiencing. just remember, we don’t actually live in a perfect world. you are going to get over-penetration every once in a while, you are going to get a squirrel that flops around for two minutes after a well placed head-shot. glad to see you are focused on humane kills, and keep coming back and contributing.


  33. squirrel is the kind of guy i like to see also. he is refining his craft which gives us airgunners a good name. he doens’t just buy a gun stick pellets in it and pull the trigger


  34. yeah i don’t believe heavy pellets cause any harm either. too-light pellets allow for too much slamming of the powerplant. another thought is pressure equalization. using your perfect world analogy, if you could perfectly seal or contain the barrel after the springer is cocked, theoretically the piston wouldn’t move due to air pressure. if you could slowly form a leak in this containment the piston would move foward slowly with no harm. seems any amount of back pressure that could be achieved would be a positive, though it is miniscule at these wieghts.



  35. let face it its all about pressure. something does have to give sometimes when you are dealing with these forces. maybe the seals, maybe the springs, maybe even the head of the pellet as it get blown off the skirt. consistency is the key, the sporadic detonation is the looming unknown.


  36. we all get it wrong sometimes.
    I was watching mythbusters and they were testing the lethal effects of shooting different powered guns and loads into a tank they contructed through a narrow hole in the top. their last attempt, before they moved to a pool, was a shotgun using a deerslug. guess what? they blew the seals on their constructed tank and it started to leak. THEY atributed this to the deer slug itself. THEY forgot about the fact that they were placing the barrel of a shotgun through a narrow hole in the top, and the blast/pressure blew their seals. and these guys are professionals.


  37. I’m assuming in most cases where the model of a particular gun comes in .177 caliber and also .22 caliber, that the internals and powerplant are identical. Just the barrel and loading ports are of different sizes to accommodate the pellets. If that is the case, then if an average .22 caliber pellet is 14gr-16gr, then there is no problem pushing a 16gr pellet in .177 caliber without any negative effects. Seems like there shouldn’t be any 20+ yardage accuracy issues either.


  38. maybe even the 16gr pellet in .177 would travel faster than the 16gr .22 pellet, since the barrel volume of the .22 would be larger than the .177



  39. Actually, I can test your hypothesis with the Whiscombe. I’ll keep the transfer port the same and simply swap barrels and we’ll see whether .177 or .22 is faster. I believe the .22 will be faster, but who knows?

    I’ve scheduled the test for later this month.

    B.B.


  40. wow, this has been an interesting thread. i’ve had my eye on an rws 460 magnum, but i think i’ll wait 6 months to see if there are any problematic issues. I hate to buy a new model of anything, you have to wait for design issues to work out. seems like all those damaged guns could be a result of an overzealous powerplant, and detonation potential, not pellet weight.


  41. i am thinking on a 460 aswell. I am a pcp guy but springers make things easy. I have a springer already but i want another. wich one?

    -sumo


  42. Sumo,

    I expect the 460 Magnum to be built as well as the 48/52 and the 350 Magnum. That’s pretty good. It’s not in the same class as Weihrauch or Air Arms, but it is ahead of anything made on Spain or Turkey.

    If you want the absolute best, go for a TX200.

    B.B.


  43. I have been thinking of buying a RWS 54 .22 caliber.
    I have been using my Gamo 440 in .22 caliber at 800 fps and like it a whole lot,I live in Spain and was happy to find the 440 in .22 cal.
    How long has the RWS 54 been around,I haven´t seen much written about them?


  44. Eduardo,

    The RWS Diana 54 has been around since the late 1990s, but it’s been in the shadow of it’s less expensive cousins, the models 48 and 52. The 54 is a delightful air rifle. You’ll get the same 800 f.p.s. in .22 from a 54, but it will feel so smooth!

    B.B.


  45. B.B.

    I have one of these, but mine IS painful to shoot.

    When I got it, I actually emailed the guy I bought it from, & asked him if it was a joke!

    First it crushed my fingers when I cocked it & quickly learned that you need to grip it from the side when you cock it.

    You say…

    "it feels like a baseball bat has cracked in your hand, or perhaps a mousetrap you were holding went off. It doesn't pinch or hurt – just vibrates with a shock."

    I agree about the basebal bat & mouse trap part, but mine recoils SO hard that the trigger gaurd jumps up & smacks my finger & it DOES hurt. lol

    Granted I DO have very large hands & the trigger is small, so I can't move my finger high enough to avoid this.

    Also, there is a screw right in front of the trigger that prevents me from raising my finger any higher. Maybe if I screw it in all the way, it might help.
    BTW… In your picture, it is screwed in all the way, but mine arrived with it sticking out about a 1/4 inch. What is that screw for?
    I played with it to see if it adjusted the trigger, but I didn't seem to notice much of a difference.

    What is that darn screw for?

    Thanks,

    - The BBA -



  46. BBA,

    You know what a carbine is – a short rifle.

    But a pneumatic develops power through acceleration, and a short barrel limits acceleration.

    Think of the ski jump. A 70-meter jump doesn’t propel the jumpers as far as a 90-meter jump. Longer acceleration = faster speed.

    Also a carbine has a shorter reservoir – so it hold less air. Fewer shots at lower power are the main points of a carbine PCP.

    B.B.


  47. B.B.

    On the Predom, I'll do both of your suggestions, thank you. :)

    With the carbine, that's what I thought. [scratches head] lol

    So the benefits of a carbine PCP are just a smaller & lighter gun then, correct?

    Or are there other benifits I'm missing?

    - The BBA -



  48. I read with interest the original article and some of the discussion. And I would like to add a few comments;
    - it does have an anti-beartrap safety. That’s its difference from LP53 (it even has a Polsh patent)
    - it is not a Lucznik model “Predom” as somebody thought. Predom was name of a group of factories, to which the factory in Radom belonged (yes, the same where 9 mm “Radom” was onceproduced – correct name of this pistol was wz. 35 “VIS”, and the factory was actually FB, recently it returned to this pre-war name).
    - Lucznik means “archer” and is a trade mark of Radom plant
    - correct civilian name of the airgun is “type 170″, military marking is “wz. 70″ (wz. i abbreviation of “wzor” meaning “model”)
    - both Walther and Lucznik are based on design of British “Lincoln” of twenties
    - recently sevaral units of “Lucznik” products emerged in Polish market as Army surplus.
    I managed to acquire three (living in Poland, it was not difficult)


  49. Yes, it does have a safety. There is a triangular, spring-loaded lever roughly underneath the chamber, which is depressed when the barrel returns to the the firing position. When the gun is cocked, the lever is released, and the trigger is blocked.
    I owned one as a kid, and it withstood about 20 years of use and abuse.


  50. You are describing a safety feature that prevents an beartrap accident, where the action closes rapidly because the sear slips. There is no external safety that the shooter can apply at will to make the gun safe.

    B.B.






  51. Predom 170 is a nice gun for the price. Trigger pull on mine is crisp and light. Accuracy is not match grade, but acceptable.

    Good gun for practicing as it makes you concentrate on sight alignment and follow through. It jumps in the hand on firing, forcing you to concentrate on follow through to get maximum accuracy. So it is a good, cheap practice gun.


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