by B.B. Pelletier
I was sort of pushed into becoming a match director. We (the four founders of DIFTA) didn’t know anything about running a match, and I was the only one who had ever competed in one. But the matches I competed in were what we would now call Hunter Class, where everyone stands. I wanted people to compete in the more traditional AAFTA (American Airgun Field Target Association) way, which means shooting from the seated position, sitting on a bum bag. A bum bag is a padded bag not thicker than 6 inches that cushions the shooter from the ground, but it does a LOT more than just that. It can also help level the ground. If you’re sitting on a downward slant (your back is headed downhill) as about a third of the firing positions at the DIFTA course are for right-handed shooters, the bum bag can level the ground for you.
Preparing for a match
I read the AAFTA rulebook and was surprised that the rules were so simple. The sport hadn’t had enough time to become complex, yet. So, I guessed that the problems were not in the rules but in the conduct of the match. That turned out to be right. Let me share some of the most important aspects of a match with you. I’ll do it in the form of the safety briefing I gave at the start of every match.
Match director’s briefing
Good morning! Welcome to our August 1st match. Safety is the most important part of this match, and as of now you’re all appointed safety officers. If you see an unsafe act, I expect you to call a cease fire loud enough for everyone nearby to hear. Our firing line is about 200 feet long, so the entire line doesn’t usually have to stop shooting (what we call “go cold”) for every cease fire, but if you think they should, make sure others down the line relay your call until the entire line is cold.
Calling a cold lane
If a target reset string breaks on your lane, or if a target malfunctions in any way and you need to go downrange (walk into the lane to the target) to fix it, call as many lanes on either side of you cold as necessary before you do this. If someone on a lane next to you does the same thing, you make sure your lane remains cold until they give you the okay. If a shooter has loaded his gun after a crease fire has been called, wait for him to blow off the shot before anyone goes downrange. Do not go downrange with any gun loaded!
Squads
We’ve squadded you in groups of three, and we put a lane number at the top of your score cards. You start shooting on that lane. Each squad gets a scorecard for each shooter and a clipboard and pencil for the three scorecards. Please start recording your scores on the lane on which your squad starts, then score each lane as you advance. There are 15 lanes with two targets on each lane. Each shooter will shoot two shots at each target, for a total of 60 shots in the match. When you finish lane 15, return to lane one as your next lane unless you have completed it.
Squad duties
In your squad, we recommend you do the following on each lane. One person shoots, another scores and the third watches the target through binoculars to check for proper functioning. Then rotate those duties until everyone has shot that lane. When the next lane is clear, move to it and start again.
Most shooters shoot the nearest target first, then the far one, but you may do it either way. Just tell your squad members what you’re doing so they can watch the right target.
Blowing off a shot
If you need to blow off a shot, always announce it to your squad members. If, for example you load a pellet backwards, or if you just filled your reservoir and need to blow off the first shot, point the muzzle safely into the ground in front of the firing point and fire.
Calling an alibi
Any time you feel a target should have gone down when it didn’t, have the scorer mark that shot as an alibi on your scorecard and report it to the match director at the end of the match. The match director will make the call based on the performance of that target for the other shooters. If you need an immediate judgement, for example if the target falls only half-way, stop shooting and call the match director for a ruling.
Lunch and target maintenance
We will break for lunch at the halfway point. The break will be about 45 minutes. At that time, the course will go cold and the sight-in range will go hot. You can eat your lunch, use the restrooms in the clubhouse or work on the sight-in range. I’ll be repainting all the targets to restore some of the contrast. If any of you want to help me, it takes about 10 minutes for two people to touch up all 30 targets. [I will cover why this is done and how we did it in a future post.]
Any other problems you have on the course, such as a gun or scope failing in the match and needing to be substituted, talk to the match director before making the switch.
Time
AAFTA rules allow 2-1/2 minutes per target, which is plenty of time. Nobody watches the clock, but squads are expected to keep their members on track. [This is a REAL problem with some shooters. They will sit there forever and range and re-range to the target, using as much time as they want. You may have to put spurs to these guys when that happens. Don’t worry about their scores. They’re never the top shooters.]
Are there any questions?
End of briefing
Scorecards
I will provide you with a sample scorecard in a future post. How it’s made can affect the ease and speed with which all the scores are tabulated at the end of a match. Believe me – almost everyone will want to know where they stand at the end of the match. We always awarded the trophies or certificates right after the match ended.
Website
A website is essential for a field target club. Try not to make it a page on someone else’s website; if you do, you’re always at their mercy. So many hobby sites are down more than they’re up that I make this caution. Post the annual schedule, starting times, directions to the match and useful contact information on the website. Post and leave the scores of the year’s matches so everyone can read them.
Use the website to attract new shooters. Tell them which kind of gun to bring so they don’t show up with a 50-foot-pound Korean .22. Describe the match so they know what to expect. Tell them about facilities so they can tell their family members in case they want to attend. We had picnic tables and some room for a gallery to watch the match, but they had to walk in our tick-infested woods. For gosh sakes, tell them to bring bug spray!
If anyone would like a copy of the Beeman R1 book, check out Ebay – oh, and bring money.
Mornin’ B.B.,
Nice write yet again. Oh yeah, if you want a website, got to http://www.freewebs.com thats where my site is, and as you can see its free, and theres lots of cool stuff you can do. My address is http://www.freewebs.com/brodman2011
Also, and if theres any safety issues, like someone keeps shooting wwhen a cease fire is called, what is done about it?
Thanks,
Brody
Hi B.B.I wrote to you yesterday about my CF-X spring problem. Last night I oiled it like you said,and it seemed smoother but when you start to pull the handle down to cock the spring it gives a grinding noise and then stops and cocks normally.Also I found that the breech which is supposed to stay locked until the cocking handle is pulled now opens at anytime.Any ideas on why that is? Next week the TX200s are supposed to come in and I wish this CF-X could have stayed trouble free for another week or two.Thanks for your patience.
B.B.,
I really appreciate all your blogs about clubs and meets and the way you break them down into fun and easy activities and steps. Many newbies to any sport, me anyway, can easily be intimidated by the organized group events. Geez, I’ll be the worst one there; I won’t know what to do; my gun isn’t good enough; and on and on with a multitude of made-up excuses.
Your enthusiasm really shows through in your writing, especially your recollection of the first match you and your friends did in Maryland(Part 1 of this series). That was a real hoot!
Thanks for conveying the “fun factor”, and removing the intimidation factor.
Best regards,
Lloyd
Brody,
I went to your website. Good work!
As for shooting after a cease-fire has been called – if it’s a person blowing off a shot and he tells everyone he’s about to do it, that’s okay. If it’s anything else, the person is asked to leave the match and never return. Violating a cease-fire is the same as shooting a gun at a gun show. No second chance.
B.B.
CF-X,
I think there is something wrong with your gun. I would have it looked at.
B.B.
Speaking of web sites maybe you should update yours B.B. 😉
BB,
Different topic… I just received the Daisy 747 air pistol after a warranty repair. Daisy replaced the defective pneumatic pump. Is there a break-in period for the new pump? Aside from lubrication should I be doing other maintenance to the pump?
Oh by the way, sorry I cannot do the requested blog on 747 grip (low temp plastic) modification… I do not know Html blog and have no camera. But the process is simple as I have explained in my previous message.
Thanks again.
Stingray
B.B.
I received my old Plymouth, Michigan Daisy 102 yesterday. First test was does it shoot? Yes, it gave about 5 inch groups at 20 feet. I gave it a through cleaning and oiling, and the groups shrunk to about two inches. The shot tube was extremely dirty inside.
Next, I got out the chrony and it was averaging about 148 fps. I do not have any specification for it, but based on the Daisy 499 I have for my girls (about 320 fps), I guessed she is not up to par. I put a few drops of pellgun oil down the barrel as you have suggested and let it sit over night. It is now in the 200 fps range. This still seems a little slow?
While not a great mechanic, I would not mind trying to tackle some sort of rebuild on the little guy. Any idea where I can get parts, and maybe instructions? Also, I used break free on it to stop the rust, better products?
Thanks,
Volvo
Daisy 747 – there is a company, RB grips I believe, that will make custom wood grips for the 747.
I ordered a pair from him and was very happy with the results. I think they were around $65.00?
They give the gun the quality feel it deserves.
Volvo
Stingray,
There are two things to do and Daisy probably did them. The cocking lever has to be adjusted per the instructions in the manual and the pump piston head has to be lubricated.
Check those every 6 months.
No problem on the grips.
B.B.
Volvo,
At 320 f.p.s., your 499 is way over par. It should be 240 f.p.s. And so should your 102. 240-275.
Here is a possible source of parts:
Ballistol is probably best for removing rust. It’s used bay half the world’s armies for their automatic weapons.
Keep soaking that 102 with oil. 20 drops at a minimum. It will increase in speed with just that, I think.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks for the info. I only used about three drops of oil, because on my Springers I learned that too much oil killed the velocity, and they would need about 6 months to return to normal.
Sounds like this is not the case on the Daisy, so I will lube it up.
Nice to hear the girl’s 499 is “hot”
Those group sizes were off hand, as befits a lever action.
It shoots about two inches to the right. I have used scopes or peep sights since the early 70’s, but I remember my dad taping the sights of my Stevens single shot .22lr to get it on center. Does the rear sight go opposite of direction you want on the target? (the Daisy has no ramp or built in adjustment feature)
Thank you,
Volvo
B.B.
I’ve wondered about what range officers plan to do with someone who is really disorderly and uncooperative. If you don’t have a gun (even if you do), how do you confront someone who does?
That person in the first picture looks like he’s about to fall over backwards. Any chance you could blog the correct sitting position(s)? Without the wall to support my back that I had in my last place, I felt like I was going to fall over backwards and abandoned the position. I’m able to make it work sitting cross-legged, but when I raise the knees up and plant the feet, I lose balance.
Since the supported prone position is the stablest, is there a reason why field target does not seem to allow prone?
How many shots are you allowed per target?
Matt61
Volvo,
The rear sight goes in the same direction you want the shot to go. Most people bend the front sight on a Daisy. Opposite direction.
B.B.
Matt61,
In 50 years of going to ranges, I have never seen a person who wouldn’t obey. Since everyone is armed, it would be a problem, if it came up.
The seated position has many variations. Fat people like me have a difficult time with their legs spread out. I cross my ankles and use a rest on my thigh (a wooden stand about 9 inches high). Tim McMurray thinks so much of that, that he built the USFT with an extendable knee rest that does the same thing.
There is a web harness to hold your legs into your chest if you want to sit the AAFTA way. See it in this report:
/blog/2006/5/shooting-positions-part-2-sitting-and-kneeling/
Prone is allowed. However, no part of the gun may touch the ground directly. The problem with prone is there is too much trash down that close to the ground. It’s difficult to get clear shots to most of the targets.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks, I recall reading that post now. It looks like the inescapable conclusion is that my middle is too “thick.” What kind of rifle is the guy with the leg harness using? It looks pretty cool.
In my G. David Tubb DVD, there’s footage of him on the line with other guys who are all sitting in a position where they are leaning far forward, and it looks like they began with crossed legs and then straightened the forward one. Ever heard of this version or know what it’s for?
Matt61
B.B.
You said to take two shots at each target? How does that work on the scoring, I thought I read you only get one shot per target…..0 or 1… or do you reset the target if you hit it with your first shot…
I also saw somewhere that only 3" high pads are allowed…..So it sounds like it is up to the match director, or are there rules that you must obey in order to be an official contest…I printed out the AAFTA rules and they seem unclear in some areas as well. I'm getting the feeling it's sort of like golf, where they move the tees and hole, and the golfers just play the course….It's ok that the courses are a little different, but the general rules are there…Do you find a lot of flexibility in the different courses or contests you've been to?
We are really excited around here, the gamo targets from PA, and the custom ones from After Hours Target co. are both on the way now….
We are picking out the lanes now..
What do you think of a small cedar deck to put your pad on, we have cedar decking, that we sell, so I would like to use it, but if it made it "unofficial" I won't do it…or the path you walk could be a long low deck path, so you just sit down on your pad.
We hope the gallery can watch a TV screen from where ever they are..but we will have some picnic tables too..
You said "club house", how did you get a club house on a low start up budget? We have two houses on the 12 acres, but we weren't thinking of using one for a club house, (maybe I better start trying to talk Randy into his house being a club house..) We could make a covered deck area too..
I know, too many questions, just do what you want to…it's your fault, you got me started….I was fine until I found PA and your blog, now I've got this disease..called air gun madness…there is no cure….you just have to live with it…
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range & Rentals
B.B. I just got your reply to my request for your opinion on what my problem is with my CFX.”I think you have a problem with your gun”?I know that or I would not have contacted you.If my question is rather elementary I’M sorry but some us count on you because we’re not in the business.A little respect is in order here.
RE; unruly shooter
I was chatting with one of the fellows who works at the state public range and he told me about an elderly gentleman who would not wait until a cease fire was called to go refresh his target. After a few talking tos and hastily called cease fires he relented.
According to the range officer he took such offense at being told what to do he swore not to return.
Glad I wasn’t there.
You misunderstood me. I was telling you to send it in to get it fixed.
B.B.
Matt61,
That rifle looks like either a Walther Dominator or a Steyr. It hard to tell without an enlargement. Both are derived from 10 meter rifles.
I haven’t heard of your sitting position, but then I have some others haven’t heard of, either.
B.B.
Wayne,
Unless they changed the rule, the height of a compressed bum bag is 6 inches in the AAFTA rules.
Each match is supposed to be different, so the rules apply, but they do not dictate the course, except in general terms (e.g. min distance 10 yards, max 55 yards).
As for the deck to shoot from, I think it makes the course too easy. Rough terrain is part of the challenge. However, a COVERED sight-in firing line with real shooting benches is very nice. In inclement weather, it gives people a place to stand out of the rain.
Video coverage is great, but you need someone there to explain what people are seeing.
The club house belonged to the Izaak Walton League. It made our facility the nicest I’ve ever seen. People need restroom facilitiies, and we had vending machines and everything.
Every shot counts in field target, so the targets are reset after the shot if they fall.
B.B.
Bruce,
I have never heard of such a thing, but that gentleman would have been ejected from any range I ever used. His membership would have been cancelled.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks, that helps, what does a “real shooting bench” look like, any pictures?
How many events or contests per year are average for a range? How many are official with the AAFTA, and how many just for locals or practice…I guess I mean how often should we be open, I know it depends on our members to a certain degree, but on average how many days per year would an average course get used?
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
B.B.
I guess since most ranges have ticks, we won’t be able to charge extra for ours, like I had hoped. I thought we had something special…..OH DARN
At least our ticks don’t carry limes disease…in my area…
We have a more open Oak woodland, on the edge of a conifer forest, so it’s not really a problem..
Well, lots to do, I won’t be by the computer this weekend very much..
Have a fun weekend everyone!!
Wayne
bb.
if you use a co2 gun alot inside
can a person or a pet get sick from the co2.cuz my frends sick and he just got a co2 gun and shot alot about 20 powerlets?
B.B. and Wayne,
I read of an interesting solution to ticks. If you get any on you, cover them with vaseline so that they have to get out or suffocate. This is a less damaging method than the only other one I know of which is to bring a heat source close to them to burn them out. You can’t be too rough on ticks in my opinion.
Matt61
It is a state (RI) operated range. There is no membership required but a permit must be granted. I can’t speak to why his permit wasn’t pulled and him ejected.
I have seen a few sketchy people at the range and the officers have been very good at correcting them.
One very young fellow I saw was not steady or safe at all. He was asked to stop and go home to review the rules. That is the worst I’ve seen.
Matt,
The ticks are easy to feel crawling on you, just check when you undress at night..it seems to take a while to get that deep into you…also wear light clothing so you can see them crawling..
On the field target sitting position, I just started it too and so I googled “Air Rifle field target positions” and found a video of a guy positioning a shooter, I’m sorry I didn’t bookmark it..but the idea is to use bones, not muscle. Make a tripod from your butt, and planted feet, connect the top of the tripod with your elbows or place the gun on your hand on your knee or directly on your knee. Don’t use muscle to adjust, slide your feet in and out for up and down, and side to side for left and right…no muscle, let the gun rest on a pad of hand, knee or inside elbow..
As for falling back, with the elbows locked, it helps me with that feeling…but I seem to get better groups with the gun on my knee and left hand in front making a light vee…but when I do it that way, I’m fighting the falling back muscles, and not steady either. I think it just takes time in the position, getting shots off, that again folks is another reason why I like the Air Arms S410, I can stay in the position, just move one hand, for the next shot, ten shots in 25 seconds if you want..I know that’s hunting and not field target, but its great practice in the position and it helps me a lot…
I really did 1000% better after watching his video, try to find it..I do my best when I think no muscle, bone only….
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Dear BB.
This question is completely off topic for this entry and I apologize for that.
I’m looking into getting a Umarex pistol. For various reasons, I’m leaning towards the CP99, but, I find myself a bit reluctant faced with the shorter 3.5″ barrel. In the longer (and a tad more expensive) versions, I’d most probably go for the 1911. My question is, for an average to good shooter how much of a noticeable difference will the shorter barrel have in accuracy, appart from the obvious front and rear site distance? Is the 60 odd FPS difference very obvious in the effective range for these guns? We’re talking strictly target shooting here (well…. plus a fair dose of “fun” factor.. he he he).
I’ve been pouring over your blog for a while and read all I could find. I got that Umarex guns are all about the same in the performance area but, I’m still uncertain about those points.
Many, many thanks.
Eric.
B.B.
Thanks for the iron site info. I will print it out and tape it in my gun safe. It is a lesson that I always need to re-learn. The last time I adjusted open sights was for a Winchester 94 in .410. I think they came out in’03? Looks like a normal 30-30, but it is actually a smoothbore shotgun.
Anyway, it was so far off at 50 yards moving just one sight would not work, so I spent the better part of an hour taping them both one way and then the other.
I feared the same on the Daisy.
You really should publish an Airgun Reference book. Often times I know I have read something in your blog, or under comments, but cannot find it.
Volvo
Volvo,
Glad you got your boyhood dream gun up and shooting. Accuracy sounds about normal — just like my Red Ryders; good enough for coke cans, but don’t try to light any matches:). I also am certain BB is correct about the velocity.
BB,
I am sorry if this was already asked and answered.
My question is, how is the 6 inch bum bag measured, when seated upon by the shooter or unseated 6 inches?
Most 6 inch foams depress to about an inch when fully seated upon.
Thanks.
David
CF-X,
It sounds like you want a much more detailed answer as to the likely problem with your gun.
From what you described yesterday and today, it sounds as though either the mainspring has broken or the spring guide has broken. I don’t believe GAMO will sell or send you repair parts. The gun should have a lifetime warranty, but GAMO requires that they do the work for you.
If you don’t want to send the gun to GAMO you have a couple choices, you can send the gun to an airgun tuner or you can fix it yourself.
If you want to do the work yourself, and it’s a broken spring, there are sources like Jim Maccari, where you can buy a much higher quality replacement spring. In this case, you will need a mainspring compressor, mechanical aptitude, and judgment for both your safety and to make and add spacers–as the spring you can source will not be an “exact-fit” drop-in part.
If it’s a broken spring guide, you’ll need some steel tubing of some free-machining steel or a piece of cold-rolled that you can cut square, cross drill accurately and chamfer the front leading end.
You will also need a high content moly grease and a spring-damping compound.
Unless you’ve fixed several magnum level break- barrel spring guns before, the CF-X will be a very difficult gun mechanically to cut your teeth on.
I’m think BB meant for you to contact GAMO and arrange to send the gun in for repair because it’s a safer, easier, more cost-effective answer for most all of us.
Derrick
Wayne,
Here is a decent shooting bench.
http://www.horstguns.com/ShootingBench.htm
The internet is loaded with plans for these.
Nobody ever measures the bum bags. The rule exists so people don’t go crazy. The match director would have the final say.
Not all bags are fiulled with foam. Mine is filled with packing peanuts, which I change every couple of years.
B.B.
CO2,
You cannot get sick from CO2 unless you shoot in an unventilated space. CO2 does not support life, so you will suffocate without oxygen.
B.B.
Eric,
A short barrel has ZERO, as in ABSOLUTELY NO affect on accuracy. That has been proven so many times it is axiomatic in the shooting sports.
However, a short sighting radius (the distance between the sights) has a great affect. The farther apart the sights are, the greater the precision.
B.B.
Volvo,
For about 12 years I have been working on and thinking about another book. I really do need to write one. Thanks for the encouragement.
B.B.
David,
As I told Wayne, no one measures the bum bags. That rule just empowers a match director to disallow anything that’s crazy.
B.B.
CF-X,
Derrick got me right. That is what I was saying.
I’m sorry, but besides writing blogs and doing other things I have to answer about 50 comments every day, so I tend to write in a telegraphic style, if I think the reader will understand me.
B.B.
B.B.I also apologize for being a little thinskinned yesterday.I am just very frustrated with this problem.Ihave a pest problem where I live and no backup piece.I”m also frustrated waiting for Air Arms to make their new delivery of TX’200s.I will send the rifle back to Gamo though as both you and Derrick make sense.Thanks for your input Derrick.
frustrated anonymous,
Sorry your having a hard time….I'm not happy at all with my CFXs steel or gas springs, they are not even close to advertised fps…PA is working with me on it, most are new, but past the 30 day refund time..so they plan to rebuild them I think…
I've got a TX200 carbine in .177 that is like new, like I said in the blogs above, mine is "collecting dust" ( not really, It's in it's case…but I'm not shooting it since I got the S410 and more s410s on the way, and we are still at least 3 weeks from opening the air rifle range. I will be getting more S410s in .22 cal and TX200s when they come in..
If you want, I could sell you my TX200 carbine for the same price as PA, it has 500 to 1,000 shots on it, I'll throw in the soft case, and some pellets, and I have some scopes and mounts too.. let me know if you just can't wait, and I'll give you my email.
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range & Rentals
B.B.
Thanks, that is a strong looking bench. I like that it is made from lumber, not plywood. Of course I’ll use the kiln dried Port Orford Cedar, we use on our raised garden beds, so they will be even nicer than those…
They are two sided, It looks like it’s too small for two people, is it designed to work for left or right handed shooters?…
So a row of these benches, maybe 10 or 12 under a long roof, with spinners at 10 to 55 yrds for a practice and warm up range.. how does that sound to you guys?
Hey, while we’re cutting the parts, we could cut some kits, if anyone else wants one, I’d sell a kit for about $175 with hardware..
B.B., Is this type of trading OK on the blog?
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne from Ashland.Thank you for your generous offer.I would
consider it, except that I really need a .22 cal. as this for large pest control.I’m going to give Air Arms until Aug;8 when they say the new shipment will be in before I would consider anything else.What a sick situation,I’m dying to spend all this money and don”t have a gun to buy.LOL. By the way good luck in your new business venture,you sound like a great guy.
Wayne,
Yes, that bench is for either left or right-handed shooters. One at a time.
You have a good start on a sight-in range. Actually you asked about usage of your facility – at DIFTA the sight-in range is open every day and gets used 100 times more than the FT course. So that’s what you should do, too. Put yard markers every five yards from 10 to 55 and make sure there are target stands at each distance.
Leave room between the benches for shooters to sit on the ground, too.
It’s okay to sell a few things here, but when it starts looking like a business I’ll ask you to refer them to your website.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks, your such a big help. What if I made them a lot wider, maybe 5', so two people could use one. Is that still too close? How many left hand guns does PA sell, I wonder? Maybe 3 or 4 wide two person ones, and the rest narrow ones more custom and comfortable to right hand shooters..
My intent is maybe to back up PA. like in this case, when someone doesn't want to wait for a new one..that we happen to have in extra stock at the time…
I see no need to buy from other dists. except for Uramex, who you turned me on too, for discontinued stuff..I still say the RWS94, 93, and 92 are great springers, made in Spain with no barrel droop…thanks again for that lead…
PA. has a large enough selection for us..and their prices are the best I can do as well.. so really almost anything I sell or rent came from them anyway…
We certainly don't make much on it, PA offers dealers a small margin, but they already sell so low, it's all they can do… it's more for the networking and customer service, on my end..
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range & Rentals
frustrated anonymous,
Thank you, life is short, we must enjoy our moments, (even when they don’t seem fun, that’s usually when there is a soul lesson in our face…embrace it with a smile and watch how the things instantly change….
You and Bill both have critter problems…He’s thinking of going PCP away from his springer..I love my TX200, but a repeater PCP is very hard to beat..If your not going for a combo gun, FT and hunting, (.22 cal is harder for FT.) then consider a PCP..
If your on a low budget, how about a Discovery, (790fps in .22) to start. I find it so great to use the low tanks, after the S410 has used up the higher pressure, if you go for a tank instead of pump…
Then move up to a condor or one of the Korean repeater PCPs with 1,200fps plus in .22 cal..PA has those in stock now..you could get a six shot repeater with pump for about the same as the TX200, if your just hunting and not doing field target too..
Wayne
BB,
Write a book, please: airgun theory and operation and survey of classics of different types, as well as the different sports. Everyone laughs at me for my airgun addiction (we’re talking about my crowd which considers a .30-06 “possibly adequate” for whitetail), but whenever I can convince somebody to shoot one (even my clunks), they start looking for their own.
BG_Farmer,
The next time your firearms crowd hits you about energy, ask them how much energy they think Lewis & Clark had at 100 yards with their .54-caliber ball shooters. The answer is about 400-450 foot-pounds. And they killed bison, elk and grizzlys, not to mention the occasional deer./
B.B.
Wayne,
I don’t thin a two-person shooting bench is a good idea. Shooters like to be alone when they shoot.
B.B.
CF-X,
It’s a pain whenever an airgun goes down since there are so few places to get them fixed.
Clearly, we all need multiple airguns as a hedge against such a calamity.
Upon further reflection, it’s most likely that your mainspring has broken somewhere mid-point. What essentially happens after it breaks is the two pieces of spring sort of screw themselves together. If your spring guide broke, the rifle would typically lock up and not cock–as the spring can’t pass over the broken guide.
By removing your CF-X’s action from the stock, you can look in the cocking lever slot underneath the compression tube. You will likely be able to see that the spring coils are not evenly gapped, as they should be. Some may even be overlapping. That would be a sure sign that the spring has indeed failed.
Keep us posted as to the outcome. We’ll all have a mechanical issue at some point. It’s good that you paid attention to the first warning sign when the gun didn’t sound right.
Derrick
BB,
Based on the prices that your Beeman R1 book is consistently getting on eBay as well as the yellow classifieds, why not consider a reprint with some updated sections?
Put me down for a new one. My old copy is pretty tattered at this point.
Derrick
B.B.
Thanks again,
I'm going to customize that design for right hand and left hand shooters and have a 2 or 3 to 1 right hand, with maybe 12 or 18 total, with 10' between for sitting or prone…about right?
I'm glad we got to this subject again, I'm going to make the warm up sight in range a higher priority…In this case a deck is fine right, and nice places to put your rifle down without scratching it…
I'm having a great time trading the air guns I already know about and I'm re-ordering, for boats, so when you come to visit you can fish & stuff…or the rest of the family can, while your shooting…lots to do around here..
I'm impressed how many people will trade a boat, motor and trailer for $400 or $500 worth of air guns…changing hobbies with the high fuel prices?….everyone who has trade, 4 so far, wants to come be a member…
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Derrick,I contacted BOB WERNER,aka cHARLI DA TUNA because I was going to send it to him to tune.Well as soon as he heard that not only the spring had a problem,but that the breech would not lock,He also said to send it back to Gamo.He said that it’s almost impossible to take that breech and pivot pin out without major damage to the gun.So I have to put the stock trigger back in before I send it back to GAMO and hope they send me a new gun and not a patched up repair job.Things are becoming a little complicated.But I’ll deal with it.I must say though that I feel like I have made a few new friends on this site by your friendly advise and support.Thanks again,Wayne, B.B,. And Derrick. You guys are alright.
hi i have a 1077as and i wanted to see if i culd get a hoes to conect to the airsorse screw and then to a panit ball tank culd i just buy a hoes wuld i have to modfy the gun.
BG Farmer,
I have to admit some may think it silly that I am blasting away with an old Daisy lever gun when professional tuned airguns surround me, but it puts a grim on my face.
I guess I have come fully circle.
Also, I know exactly what your saying about trying to bring up airguns with those not already acquainted with them. When I picked up the Winchester 94 in .410 I was asked why I needed a special “chipmunk” only gun. These guys think a 45-70 is the ideal plinking gun.
Needless to say, I have not had much luck at making any airgun converts.
Volvo
B.B.
In my humble opinion, you probably have enough information in this blog for a book already. The challenge I have found in extracting data is that often times “gems” are buried in the comment area, and almost impossible to find once read.
My thoughts would be to have chapters on the various power plants, maintenance, sight choices, collecting, your current piece on setting up a field target club and so on. You have a ton of great info here. “Tom Gaylord’s Complete Guide to Airgunning.”
Needless to say, we will still need your ongoing product reviews.
I have to admit, my desire for this is selfish, because if not, I have decided to buy several accordion files and start printing and filling this information – then cutting and pasting it eventually.
It would not be nearly as pretty.
Volvo
Volvo,
I’ll buy a 20 copies of yours or B.B.s as soon as their ready…
Wayne
B.B.,
I got my camera last night! I got a Nikon Coolpix L18! Its a wonderful camera so far. Ive played around with it, and taken a few pics, and some at night. So far there excellent. I will post some tomorrow.
See ya,
Brody
Derrick,
I have thought about updating the R1 book, but I don’t know how much longer that rifle will be sold. A better idea might be to incorporate some of the better material into a more general book that applies to all airguns.
I don’t know at this point.
B.B.
Wayne,
Your range design sounds wonderful, but have you calculated the length? It sounds like a 50-yard long line. I would say build six right-hand and three right and left hand benches and let that be it until the demand forces you to expand.
The deck walkway sounds extra nice. Most ranges use concrete.
Racks for the guns go behind the line where they are handy.
B.B.
1077,
The parts you ask for are not in stock. You have to source them each individually. A large hardware supply or a paintball store is the place to look.
B.B.
Volvo,
Thanks for those kind words, but that’s not the way to write a book. That’s just a loose assemblage of daily blogs – some of which may relate to a common topic.
A book needs a central editing theme. I did that in the Beeman R1 book and I would have to do it in any other book I write.
Writing a daily blog is one thing. Writing a 274-page book so the whole thing makes sense to the reader is something else.
But thanks for the encouragement.
B.B.
Hello BB,
Here’s a quick question:
I’m buying the new Leapers mount for my RWS. I’m using a 3-12x 44mm scope, but I’ve forgotten which ring size to use. For a scope of that size, which ring size is correct?
Wayne,
Thanks. But my end results would not be a book; more like something my Mother would do when she came across a good recipe and wanted to save it.
B.B. is a walking encyclopedia of airgun knowledge, and I believe putting his information in an organized format would be wonderful resource.
Just because I read books, I am not under the false impression I could write one. I meet those types of individuals all the time that feel just because they live in a house, they know how one should be built.
Volvo
Mike,
Any scope can be either 1-inch or 30 mm. You have to look in the scope’s specifications to find out the tube size.
Most Leapers scope with those dimensions have a 30mm tube, but you have to verify that.
B.B.
Hey BB,
What is your opinion on hunting with steel tipped pellets such as Gamo Rocket, Crosman Fireball, or Daisy Power Pellets. They sound like a good concept and Fireballs i know work okay on woodchucks.
CritterControoler
CritterControoler ,
I like pure lead pellets for hunting. They hold together better and penetrate deep enough when the right gun and caliber are used.
B.,B.
B.B.,
Would youagree that safety is the single most important thing? I thought about setting up targets, to plink around with my cousins, but i was worried about richochets. shooting at an iron plate, goes against everything ive learned. how do the pellets not richochet back?
Thanks,
Brody
Volvo,
Re: cowboy style lever action BB repeaters. Some time ago, I rescued my old Red Ryder from the family basement, where it sat cocked (not my doing) for perhaps 15 years. After a shot to discharge it and some oil, I revelled in the sense of power and precision styling that had enchanted me many Christmases ago. Cock, aim, fire: So read the instructions still decal’d on the buttstock. The first shot hit the mark, like many of my “Rifleman” inspired feats from yesteryear. Your not alone, so have fun:).
B.B.
We hope to make it nice to use, and easy to keep safe…We have lots of room, ( about 3 or 4 acres on the spot were thinking of ) but I like the idea of expanding as necessary…I'll use your numbers for the benches and the 12' in between for the prone and sitting positions..Of course the benches will be able to move on the deck/walkway…they'll be level too, which should help for scope set up..
On the racks for guns, behind the shooting benches. I've been worried about letting my scope lean on things, particularly on the end when there are 3 or 4 sun shades attached..any ideas or links on the perfect gun rack?
All those who help with ideas, get large discounts on memberships…. or least good "Karma" if you never plan to travel to Southern Oregon…
We are trying to figure out what a "lifetime founding member", "yearly member' and "monthly member" would pay to join and own a piece of the company, and then how much per hour, if anything after that for use….We've heard a wide range of fees so far, it's hard to figure what will be fair and work for everyone..(especially when we don't know how many members to expect either) we don't need to make a lot of profit, just keep things growing, like new guns and nicer facilities as more people join..
Can anyone help with the fees for other ranges or similar services, like tennis, golf, fitness centers…I'll research around here, other parts of the country would be nice too..
Volvo & B.B.
On the book, don't call it a book, It doesn't need to be a novel, it's more like an encyclopedia. Call it a database of info from the blog…it just needs to have cross references to find "off topic good stuff" in the comments….if it was done in a "cut and paste" database, then printed, it wouldn't be so hard…someone would have to read it all and create the references…..and the user would have to jump around, but that's how you learn new things as well…I think it would still be very useful..
Volvo is right, there are a lot of hidden treasures in the comments, that have to be mined to be used..and it's too hard right now..
Create an LLC. and the people who do the work share in the profits from the book….errr….I mean "database of Air Gun blogged info"
Wayne
Brody,
You’ll have to be more specific. What do you mean, “Shooting at an iron plate?”
B.B.
Wayne,
As long as the rifle is slanted backwards and nothing touches the scope, you have it. So a place for the butt and a rack for the muzzles with nothing in-between.
I pay $125/yr. to belong to my shooting range, with $25 off because I’m a senior. Our club has about 300 members and doesn’t try to turn a profit.
Ranges combined with stores do best. And stores that also do internet sales do best.
B.B.
B.B.,
I mean the iron plate on the Target, in field Target. Wouldnt the pellet richochet off it?
Thanks,
Brody
Brody,
Okay. First, when pure lead hits an immovable hard surface at over 650-700 f.p.s., it breaks apart into dust and particles. However, larger chunks will ricochet, I’ve heard them many times in a match.
They never come straight back. They always go away from the firing line, unlike BBs that can bounce straight back.
Second, lead deforms, giving up a large part of its energy. So the ricochets don’t go very far. They are not aerodynamic, and they are spinning wildly, which is where their trademark sound comes from.
Finally, the targets do move a little. That absorbs more energy.
In five years of competing and many matches, never was one shooter touched by a pellet or pellet fragment.
Good question.
B.B.
BB,
Thanks for the answer on the Umarex barrel lengths.
So it comes down to individual comfort and personal choice for a given model as only the shooters capacity makes a difference. I also imagine that the slight velocity difference will only have a marginal effect if and when the target is moved back some yards.
Thank you; always an informative read.
Eric.
P.s.: Hum… I like the idea of a book or a writing compilation of some sort.. 🙂
B.B.,
Thanks for that answer. You cleared it all up. No i have a question. If a club were to get formed, is it a good idea, to get a couple guns, for people ti use, in case something goes wring with theirs, or if someone doesnt have one?
Thanks,
Brody
brody,
In a contest, the match director only let's you change guns if yours breaks or something, right B.B.?
But for the site in and warm up range, I hope to have thirty different kinds for people to try out, until they find the one they like, and buy it, if they want…
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range & Rentals
BB,
off-subject, but does Air Venturi have a website? I can’t seem to find it, and I’m wondering how many different airgun brands and models their gas springs can accommodate.
Western PA
an other question for you b.b,
is the diana 460 magnum ,rws most powerful airgun?
What is the velocety off the 460 with pba?
Brody,
As someone said, you finish a match with the rifle you started with. But sometimes things do happen.
You don’t have to plan these things. When clubs form there are always some shooters with more than one gun. At DIFTA, we had one guy who had 10 field target rifles converted from 10-meter rifles. At $3,000 apiece, guess how much he spent just on rifles?
B.B.
Western PA,
Air Venturi doesn’t have a website yet.
As for the guns their gas springs fit, Pyramyd AIR is putting them up on their website as soon as they have been tested. There are more guns than you see now, but because they haven’t been tested yet, they aren’t up yet.
There will be more, but these things take time.
B.B.
Diana 460 Magnum,
I don’t know if the 460 Magnum is Diana’s most powerful air rifle or not. The 350 Magnum seems to give it a run for its money.
In .177 caliber shooting Raptors, I got an average of 1,285 f.p.s., with a top velocity of 1,326 f.p.s. The rifle I tested seemed to be on the slow side, so let’s say the 460 gets 1,350 f.p.s. with Raptors.
But you asked about POWER, not velocity. In terms of POWER, I believe the .22 460 Magnum may be slightly more powerful than the 350 Magnum in .22. It might be so close that rifle by rifle the title may vary.
B.B.
thank you b.b,
i have a .177 460 magnum, which are the best pellets to use with the 460 ?
460,
I would try 10.2-grain JSB Exacts, Kodiaks, and both weight of Crosman Premiers.
B.B.
can any one tell me the main web site for airforce if there is one
FROGINSTEW,
You asked this on another posting and I answered you. Please ask a question one time, only.
http://www.airforceairguns.com
B.B.