by B.B. Pelletier
As a wrap-up to this report, I’m going to chronograph the 1936 version of the Daisy No. 25 pump BB gun. I’ll also show you the Daisy target trap in the kit, and, just for grins, I’ll chronograph a 1954 version of the same No. 25 pump gun that the 1936 version morphed into. This is playtime for me, and I hope it tickles your fancy, as well.
First – oil the gun!
Many of you haven’t heard this story yet, so allow me to tell you a sad tale from my childhood. It’s probably one of the main reasons I became such a devoted airgunner. After my mother embarrassed me with the world’s weakest airgun, she relented from her “NO BB GUNS” policy by allowing me to buy a real Daisy. My older sister’s boyfriend had a 1930 variation Daisy No. 25 pump (that’s the same gun as the 1936, but with no engraving and a color case-hardened pump linkage) that he offered to sell me for $5. I couldn’t get the money fast enough! (I had a paper route.)
I’m a dope
That gun was a beauty and I loved it–for all of 3 days. Then, on day 4, the BBs stopped coming out. Or, they simply dribbled out with no force. I was 12, so all I knew was to take it apart. I made it almost halfway before realizing I didn’t know what to do after that. I couldn’t get it back together again. So, to rid myself of the pain of the basket-case I’d created, I sold it to an acquaintance for a quarter. A couple days later, he comes around to show me his fully functioning BB gun and tells me, “My dad says you’re a dope for not knowing you have to oil these things all the time!”
So, I’m a dope…and I became a diehard Daisy No. 25 BB gun collector on that very day. It would be 24 more years before I bought my second No. 25, but once I did the floodgates were opened. This 325 is one of the nicest in my small collection that includes every No. 25 variation from 1913 to 1954.
As I was saying, first you oil the gun by removing the screw-in shot tube and dropping 10-20 drops of plain household oil down the muzzle. Stand the gun upright for a few minutes, then load and fire. You cannot over-oil these guns, but you can make them so saturated they’ll leak oil for weeks, so keep it real.
The 1936 variation fired Crosman Copperhead BBs at a velocity in the 330 f.p.s. range. There were, however, a number of shots as slow as 269 f.p.s. That tells me the leather seal either isn’t saturated yet, or it’s worn a bit. The former is more likely, because those seals can last more than a century with minimal care.
Testing the 1954
For comparison, I dragged out my 1954 variation to test. In 1952, Daisy stopped bluing their BB guns and started painting them with a glossy black electrostatic paint. About the same time, they began experimenting with injection-molded polystyrene (plastic) stocks. However, the No. 25 went through one additional transformation. The early ones had engraved receivers that were actually engraved (stamped) with gold paint in the lines. Later guns had painted engraving; the stamped lines were left out. Mine is painted with a plastic stock and engraved, and the general consensus seems to be that this model should be called the 1954 variant, though it was probably produced earlier than that. By 1956, I believe, the engraving had ceased, and in 1958 Daisy moved to Rogers, Arkansas, so the guns marked Plymouth, MI, stopped being built. I found this gun at a flea market and got it for a great price, considering that it’s in 98 percent condition.
The 1954 variation, which may have a leather piston seal or it may be synthetic, averages 344 f.p.s. with a velocity variation of less than 20 f.p.s. So neither this gun nor the older one are quite as powerful as I’ve seen, but both are still pretty hot for BB guns.
Daisy target trap
Talk about your liability potential! The all-steel Daisy target trap that comes in the 325 outfit is a lawsuit waiting to happen! It was probably fine back in the days of lead air rifle shot, but when the steel BB came out in the late 1920s, the phrase, “You’ll shoot your eye out!” was born.
The trap has a bell inside the small hole and the BB that strikes it provides the clapper. A red and white Daisy target was dropped into the target holder and the bell signified when the red bullseye was hit. My trap has small dimples on the face and larger dents in the back, signifying some use. This trap was also sold separately in a red and white pasteboard box, and I’ve seen them going for $100 in the box by themselves. A trap without the box should be worth something less, I would think, and the amount of use would dictate the price, as well.
Whatever you do–NEVER shoot a steel BB at this trap! The steel construction guarantees that BBs will come straight back at the shooter with force.
I hope you’ve enjoyed this stroll down memory lane with me. For some reason, I have always been a sucker for pump guns and Daisy No. 25s are my special weakness.
B.B.,
Thanks for the 2 part stroll down memory lane.
A 25 was my second bb gun and most memorable. The first was an underlevel that you dumped bb’s down the barrel as I remember. Don’t even remember how I acquired the 25 but it wasn’t new. A trade with one of my buddies or maybe won it playing mumbly peg. A playmate of mine had an old crossman pump that you filled with bb’s. We shot so many things that we shouldn’t have. My 25 pump could get off maybe 10 shots by the time he bolted a bb into his chamber, pumped it 8-10 times and then fired. Always liked my fire power vs. his. Don’t remember what happened to the gun but about a month ago I came across a small daisy cellophane bag of bb’s that were from the era of this gun. I no longer own a bb gun, and have no reason to keep this bag of bb’s but couldn’t bring myself to throw them out. Don’t ask me why I kept them. I’m not very sentimental but couldn’t toss ’em.
kevin
BB, you got me kinda hankerin’ for a Model 25 or a variant – I remember one hanging up in my uncle’s gun cabinet when I was a kid. Always wanted to shoot it, but never got the nerve to ask.
So I started snooping around, and it appears that just as I got serious the prices started going up. I contacted Bucky’s, and they happen to have a number of late production NOS 225’s for $175 shipped – but I’m not sure I wanted to spend that much.
Guess I’ll just keep looking…
Kevin,
Don’t throw that bag away! It’s a collectible. Not worth a lot of money yet, but it’s a link to the 1950s and ’60s.
B.B.
Vince,
Don’t you dare pay that much for a plain old No. 25 – and certainly not for a plastic 225! A good blued-steel 25 can still be had at airgun shows for $100-125. A nice 1936 variation might cost a little more.
B.B.
Wayne,
About the dents – I feel the same way! In fact, one of my little hobbies is researching the “BB-gun wars.” I love to find old BB guns with BB dents in them. Many were veterans of the BB-gun wars that raged from the turn of the century until the 1970s. I even wrote an article about the wars for Shotgun News.
B.B.
B.B.,
You’re the collector, not me. Give me a shipping address. klentz4@comcast.net or link to my email by going to my website at http://www.kevinlentz.com.
Vince,
If you’re serious about a model 25 they have 4 or 6 of them for sale here:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.asp
kevin
Vince,
Link didn’t work for me. Try this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.asp?Cat=3050
Then type in “model 25” in the search block.
kevin
B.B.
I’ve found that airgunning has sharpened my economic instincts.
Won’t a lead bb shoot your eye out if it lands there? And I don’t recall goggles being very popular with bb guns. I can’t believe wars took place for almost a century without a public outcry.
Matt61
Matt,
Yes, eyes weren’t safe from a direct shot with lead BBs. But when steel BBs were first introduced, they caused thousands of injuries because kids weren’t prepared for BBs that bounced straight back. Lead BBs flatten out and fall to the ground when they strike a hard surface.
The BB-gun wars are still being fought. But today, kids use airsoft guns. So the war is older than a century!
B.B.
Just got a Model 25 on gunbroker – I HAD been checking there and somehow missed this one. It works but has a cracked plastic stock – I got it for $37.
Wayne, believe it or not the DOD and the ‘Industrial Complex’ are not one in the same. Many large contractors are out to rape the DOD while stiffing them on deliverables, hiding behind bogus tests and certifications to deliver substandard products and services. Of course some of this goes the other way as well.
Quite frequently the DOD and these industries are almost sworn enemies… each needing but despising the other at the same time. Describing them as being ‘one and the same’ is hardly accurate.
My Crosman M66 when pumped three times had about the same power as my old model 25, or so it seemed to me.
–Joe B.
This kinda ties in with the discussion the other day about kids getting out to play vs vid games.
My 7 year old loves his Red Ryder.
My newly turned 5 year old (3 days ago) can hardly wait till he’s 6…that’s the rule, you need to be 6 in our house to get your 1st Red Ryder.
But already I’ve told my 7 year old that when he gets older we’ll get him pellet gun…to which he replies that he will keep his Red Ryder forever.
Reading this blog today I have faith that in 20 years he will be handing down the Red Ryder lovingly to his son/daughter.
Really…would you be able to, or even want to do that with a PlayStation?
And yes, I remember our bb gun wars 40 years ago. I remember my best friend was playing sniper, hiding in a tree. He didn’t see me, I took careful aim and got him in the family jewels.
A quick trip to the doctor and he was fine.
A fine trip down memory lane b.b.
Cowboy Dad.
B.B.
I think that the lead bbs would hurt like hell wherever they landed, especially on bare skin. I had a different kind of accident with toy guns.
When I was very young, my parents gave way to incessant pleading for non-functional tin toy rifles. Early in the morning while they were asleep, my brother and I got into a sort of urban combat game. I whipped around the corner and had a last image of him charging forward with his gun up…. Then, the sharpened tip of the muzzle went right into my cornea and cut it open. I do believe that I am a genuine survivor of a bayonet thrust. The guns were thrown far off the patio into a kind of ravine and I suspect that the family resistance to guns in any form dates from that time.
Should we go to a subsistence economy, I suspect that antique bb guns would have much less value than today. In fact, I understand that the definition of civilization is that there is time outside of subsistence for recreation. So, in a barter society I think we could also say goodbye to the airgun internet commerce on which I thrive….
Vince, you’re right about the infighting between the DoD and contractors. The behavior of Colt with its high prices for the M4 and its attempts to conceal or explain away its many flaws is truly appalling.
Cowboy Dad, were you aiming at his family jewels?
Matt61
Cowboy dad,
Great story! I will add it to the growing list.
B.B.
Even plastic BB’s out of a spring airsoft pistol can hurt like hell – a swollen lip on my part, and blood running down an adult friend’s face from a forehead ‘wound’. Probably the worst was when a 12-year-old in our informal ‘game’ charged me, and I popped him at about 10 feet with an $18 Tanfoglio Witness airsoft pistol.
The BB went up his nose. He had to blow it out.
When his mother found out about it, all she had to say was “eeeeeewwwwww!!!”
Morning Everyone,
I’m so sorry again for taking a lovely stroll down bb gun memory lane, into a political dead end…
Please pick it up again..
B.B. please take all my comments off for the day, it would make the flow better..
I’ll just read from now on…
Thanks,
Wayne
BB,
I just have to shoot BB’s at that steel trap! Amazingly, Daisy must have produced that trap for decades into the steel BB era, and I never heard of a lawsuit.
Wayne,
Don’t stop talking, just keep it vaguely related to airguns:)…I had several responses, but withheld them because I reached the same conclusion that you and everyone else did.
Matt,
I’m stockpiling softair and BB guns for the coming apocalypse — we’ll just eat small rodents and scare off deer from our garden. I’m thinking the prettier soft-BB’s can be made into necklaces for trade, with the aluminum ones so valuable that we can procure mates for our children:).
BG_Farmer,
That’s brilliant! We could call them “Whop-’em!”
B.B.
BB
Thursday I asked about an Airhog Condor silencer that I put on a Talon. It was getting very bad accuracy with it on. I read your report on it and you said loosen the allen screw, remove the old cap, and slip the new extender in place. The one I have slides over the barrel easily but half way in the frame it gets much harder. It takes a good amount of force to push it in the rest. Could that have any thing to do with bad accuracy?
jeff
Hello:
Can anyone help me on this?? I recently bought the RWS Cleaning Kit for air rifles… I own a Gamo spring rifle, but I have no idea how to use the Spring Cylinder Oil and the Air Chamber Lube that the kit includes… Can someone show me an illustration or something that can help me know were to add this lubricants??? I am new at this, so pardon my ignorance.. Thank You!!
Cleaning kit
A Gamo doesn’t need any lubrication for about the first 3,000 shots.
How many shots have you fired through your Gamo and what model is it?
jeff
I have a Whisper VH… and alrady shot about 2,500 shots… (about 5 tins of 500)… I love this rifle… And I have it modified with the Gas Ram… so what do you think??? Anyways… what’s the difference of these two lubes and were does each goes?? Thanks for answering Jeff..
Jeff,
I already answered this question for you. You have put the WRONG tube on your Talon!
The Talon frame is shorter than the Condor frame, so the barrel extends out farther. You have bumped into the internal baffle and pushed it put of position, possibly cocking it in the process.
Can this be corrected? Yes, if you are a machinist. The internal baffle has to be pushed back concentric with your muzzle and ahead of your muzzle. But that will leave a very small expansion chamber in the end of the tube and I don’;t know if it will work.
Right not your pellets are hitting the baffle, which is why the accuracy is so bad.
Please in the future, when you ask a question, return to THAT posting to read the answer.
B.B.
Gamo owner:
You DON’T need to lubricate your airguns OR CLEAN the barrel until the gun makes sounds during cocking or looses accuracy.
The chamber oil goes in the air transfer port. One drop every 3,000 shots or so, but not until the gun makes noises when cocked.
The air transfer port is a hole in the spring tube just behind the breech. You can see it when you cock the rifle.
The spring cylinder oil goes on the mainspring. Take the rifle out of the stock and p[ut 10 drops on the mainspring though the cocking slot.
To see what these things look like, read this 13-part blog on tuning a spring rifle:
/blog/2006/08/spring-gun-tune-part-13-range-testing-the-r1-we-tuned/
B.B.
Jeff,
If you have a gas spring in the Whisper, just shoot the gun. No maintenance or lubrication is required until you get about 25K shots on the gun. Then one drop of chamber oil down the air transfer port.
B.B.
hey bb,
have you ever seen Daisy Pop Out targets i just baught an old book of them for a buck.
crittercontroller
BB
Even though the Condor frame is longer does’t the barrel stick out about the same since the barrel is 6inches longer? The Talon barrel sticks out 5inches past the end of frame not the endcap. The baffles don’t start until around 8inches inside the tube. At 5 1/2inches inside the tube is a bushing that the barrel looks like it should go into but the Talon barrel would be behind it and not reach it. I know the pellets are touching the baffles somewhere but I could’t see where. Does the Condor barrel stick out more and slid into that bushing?
jeff
Crittercontroller,
No, I don’t believe I ever have seen Daisy pop-out targets.
B.B.
Jeff,
The Condor barrel abutts that bushing.
B.B.
Not related, but I need some help—
I’ve decided to get my first airgun and I’m not sure where to start. I’m looking for a Co2-operated pistol with the best possible target/plinking accuracy as it will be entirely used for semi-short range target shooting. I live in a pretty urban area, so it would be great to get a relatively quiet gun so I don’t scare anyone. I’m looking to spend somewhere around $100 but if it makes a big difference in reliability/accuracy, I’ll pay a little more. Also, what BB’s are best for target shooting? I’m used to shooting real guns so the more power, the better. Any and all suggestions of good guns would be great. Thanks!
CO2 is not quiet. And forget BB guns if you want accuracy.
I recommend the Beeman P17 for accuracy and for a quieter gun. The Daisy 747 is another quiet gun that’
s very accurate.
Shoot RWS Meiesterkugeln or Gamo Match pellets.
B.B.
BB,
I recently aquired a Daisy Model 25 1936 that was manufactured around 1947. I owned one as a kid and after reading your blog with all the excellent information just had to have one again.
I was lucky enough to purchase one from Jim Coplen that he had rebuilt recently. I was more than just a little pleased with the gun. It is just as exciting as it was when I was 11 – 12 years old.
The gun shoots nice and hard and even with a well used shot tube manages to group nicely at 25 -30 feet (1 1/2″. My problem is she shoots 1 – 1/2 inches to the left. I’m really hesitant to bend the front sight and I have seen a few that the bent blade looks like : () Is there another solution?
Couple other questions:
1. How interchangable are Model 25 shot tubes. I have not recieved it yet but I bought one on an auction that was purchased from Daisy in 1988 will it work on my older gun?
2. Is there any way a new “red dot” type scope can be attached to my older Model 25?
Thank, I sure enjoy your blog. Retirement and Grandson’s are making me a new air gunner in my own back yard. What a great source of entertainment.
Pete Peterson
Mesa, Az
azpete@q.com
BB, love your blog! Unfortunately, you keep scratching an itch, and now I have a Crosman 1377 and a Beeman P17 kit (what a deal, pistol and red dot for $40).
But I’m writing to ask about the Daisy 25. Like so many, I had one as a kid and shot it till my middle teens, when Dad bought me a pump up pellet rifle and the 25 eventually disappeared (friend borrowed? garage sale? Mom tossed it? I don’t know). My question is, with such a variety available, what variant might be a good shooter, relatively inexpensive, but worth keeping for a grandkid?
BB keep up the great work! Thanks, Wipeout
AzPete,
No, bending the front sight is about the only way to correct the sights on a 25. Swapping shot tubes can help, but most 25s I’ve tested shot 1-2 inches to the left at 20 feet.
A 1988 shot tube should work in your gun -except there is no such thing! Whoever is selling this part is unaware that Daisy discontinued the model in 1986.
I don’t know of a way to attack a dot sight to a 25. The model 300 scope is about the only optical sight you can use. Of course a clever guy might cobble something together.
Glad you like the blog. Please keep writing comments.
B.B.
Wipeout Wm,
If I were about to buy a Daisy 25 today, I would search for a 1930 variation. It has a blued-steel finish, without engraving. Although it is an older gun than an engraved 1936 variation, they usually sell for less. They do shoot lead shot, so you either have to install a steel shot tube or buy a pound of 4.4mm shots from this man:
B.B.
BB,
Thanks for your input concerning the from sight and shot tubes for the Daisy Model 25.
I’m still tinkering with the adaptation of the correct base to reciever so I can mount a variety of scopes on the Model 25. I have an extra reciever and plans are in the works to assemble an additional shooter. I’m more than a little hesitant to make any alterations to my Model 25 1936.
A recent project undertaken by my Grandson’s and I to add a little something extra to our back yard shooting resulted in a low cost auto reset target that works well with BB’s and most likely pellets.
Simply put we copper clad (14 gauge) a Crosman Auto Reset Airsoft Target. Using sheet copper and 5 min. epoxy we covered two units in an hours period of time. All three targets and the base were easily encased in copper. The softness of the copper really cuts down on ricochets even though the targets are set back in a larger canvas BB trap.
The Grandson’s almost enjoy the auto set targets as much as the traditional plastic army men targets.
Thanks
AzPete
Mesa, Az
AzPete,
That modification sounds intriguing! You have created a BB action target.
Maybe you could write a guest blog about this project and show us a few pictures of it in action? I would like to hear how the copper cuts down the bouceback.
B.B.