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Education / Training › What to oil? – Part 1 A guide to sealing pneumatics and CO2 guns

What to oil? – Part 1 A guide to sealing pneumatics and CO2 guns

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by B.B. Pelletier

I get many questions about where to oil certain airguns, so this multi-part report will address all the places. This information has been written in owners’ manuals for some airguns but not for them all. Think of this as your universal tutorial.

Multi-pump pneumatics
Whether the gun pumps from the bottom, the side or has a rod coming straight out the front, they all need oil to seal their seals and internal o-rings. If I haven’t shot a gun in a month, it gets oiled the first time I pick it up. If I shoot it often, it gets oiled once a month.

What oil to use?
Use some form of petroleum oil for most multi-pumps unless the manual warns against it. Crosman Pellgunoil is 20-weight motor oil with no additives except an o-ring preservative, making it the perfect oil to use.

09-26-08-1

To oil the pump head on a multi-pump rifle, open the pump handle as far as it will go. That brings the pump head to the bottom of the pump linkage slot. It will either be a silver metal part or a dark rubber part.

09-26-08-2

This is a closeup of the pump head. Put three or four drops on the pump head.

Vintage Benjamin guns
Some vintage Benjamins have a warning that says, “Do Not Oil” next to the air hole located near the muzzle of the gun. Benjamin recommends removing the pump rod and greasing the leather pump head with petroleum jelly. If you don’t want to do that, you can use oil, but the small hole where the warning is located is the air hole. Don’t plug it with grease or oily residue.

Oiling CO2 guns
Put a drop of oil (Pellgunoil is the best) on the tip of EACH NEW CARTRIDGE you pierce. The gas pressure will blow some of the oil through the gun, where it will get on the seals and o-rings. It is impossible to over-oil a gun, if you do it this way.

09-26-08-3

Before installing a CO2 cartridge, put a drop of Pellgunoil on it like this.

When I get a new CO2 gun and want to give it a huge shot of oil, I try to put the oil directly on the cartridge piercing mechanism. More than one drop can be put there and I usually give a new gun five drops or more. This is also helpful when oiling a vintage CO2 gun. It puts a lot of oil on the internal seals, which may have dried out.

09-26-08-4

When installing AirSource cartridges or when filling with bulk CO2, like this target pistol, drop 5 or so drops of Pellgunoil into the connection first. The gas will blow it into the gun.

Don’t forget AirSource and bulk-fill guns!
I always oil AirSource and bulk-fill CO2 guns this way. These guns shoot a lot more shots between fills than guns using 12-gram cartridges, and it’s good to have extra oil available for the seals. My own bulk-fill 10-meter pistol is now about 9 years old and has fired perhaps 30,000 shots, yet it still seals well because I oil it with every fill.

Here are some topics I will cover in this series in the future:

  • How to oil a spring-piston gun:
    • Breakbarrel
    • Underlever and sidelever
  • How to oil a BB gun
  • How to oil a single-stroke pneumatic
  • Should you oil a precharged pneumatic?
  • Oiling airguns for lubrication, not sealing

Have I missed anything?

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
See Full Bio

91 thoughts on “What to oil? – Part 1 A guide to sealing pneumatics and CO2 guns”

  4. J-F,

    I bought my big bottle from Dennis Quackenbush at an airgun show. It isn’t really Pellgunoil, but a blend of 20-weight non-detergent oil to which Dennis adds an o-ring preservative. That is what dies it red, just like Pellginoil.

    I don’t know if Dennis sells these big bottles through the mail, but he might.

    B.B.

  5. My Crosman pistol came in with a lot of oil on it.

    The bolt was wet and was seeping oil. The piercing knob threads were well oiled too. I was a bit concerned when I could smell the oil after a shot. I guess I shouldn’t worry.

    My 2100 was very dry when I got it. I have oiled it a few times since. Maybe I’ll give it a good squirt tonight.

  6. B.B.,
    These tribal knowledge articles are great and fill a real need considering the skimpy info in the literature that comes with most guns and accessories.

    I didn’t see PCP handpumps on your future article list. I have an Axsor handpump and the instruction manual basically told me how to screw the foot plate on. Duh. I think you’ve said to NOT lube or take these things apart unless I’m ready to buy a new one.
    Did I get that right?

    Thanks,
    Lloyd

  7. Hi BB
    I have a 392 that has the “no oil” warning. It’s a reconditioned rifle (done by the manufacturer I think)and from what I can observe without opening the gun, it looks like the seal is synthetic. Should I still oil it through that air hole? It does get a little “mushy” when I don’t use it for a while but I was a little reluctant to lub it because of the waqrning on the gun.

    Ton

  8. Lloyd,

    Yes, I said that and still say it. No pump manufacturer has ever revealed how to lube their product nor where or how often. But my crusade is to stop airgunners from REMOVING the grease that comes on the pump shaft!

    I have a pump that 12 years old and has been used a lot, and it still has the original grease on it. But when I repaired pumps for AirForce, the number one cause of failure was the grease had been wiped off.

    B.B.

  11. B.B., (Axsor pump)
    Ok, I’ll stick with that plan. I’ve been using mine for about 6 months and have left it in the as-received condition. It’s working perfectly, and I will definitely leave it alone! All I’ll do is pump it, and use the bleed screw to let the moisture out.
    Thanks,
    Lloyd

  12. B.B.

    Very important information, and timely for me as well… Getting all these older classics in for the rifle range. This will be well received, at least by me, for sure!

    I just got in a Benjamin 312, it seems so small and cute, but still an effective little shooter… I’m loving these older ones..

    What class do you put the Air Arms “Power airgun oil” in, is it only for PCPs? (just wait for the PCP blog?)

    Volvo was trying to help me oil the little Hy-Score last night.. Great timing, Thanks..

    Just happened to notice how long your dragging out the HW-55 T report, HMMMMM… like you said, more time to wrestle with me over ownership ….

    I’m having too much fun in this hobby business, I come from a long, long, line of “horse traders” and the process is the most fun for me.. So, get that arm ready for wrestling B.B…. I am..

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  13. Wayne,

    My arm is set to go. I’m hoping that I’ll find a few gems at Roanoke that will thrill you.

    The next step with the 55T is to dive into the guts. I will spend some time in there, because there is a lot to show.

    I haven’t shot the rifle for accuracy yet, but that won’t change with the tune, so I’m saving it for last.

    B.B.

  15. B.B.

    Alright then, that's a great plan..

    It can't be better than that for me. I'd love to have you shopping at the show for me.. That should make your arm very, very strong…

    Wayne,
    AARR&R

  16. BB,
    Would you also include tips for storage? Say, maybe shooting some grease in the breach and using a single pump (multi-pump rifle) with no pellet to spread the grease throughout the barrel? Just guessing, but storage tips would probably be a good topic to add. JP

  17. Derrick,

    I got a .22 with the 10” barrel, cocobolo target grips, LPA open sites. So far I like it. I am a hopeless shot right now but you have to start somewhere.

    I think it is sighted in OK, the weak link is me and I am spraying lead around from 7 yards (the length of the basement).

    The pellet hits the trap with a lot of authority. I was a bit surprised by the power.

    I think I see what you meant about buffing the sear and trigger. It takes bit of effort to pull. I have not figured out the pressure or release yet. I may pick up a used gun to tinker with before I pull this one apart.

    It’s going to be a wet and dreary weekend here so I may spend some quality time in the basement working on pointing a pistol better.

    Ciao,

    Bruce

  19. I inherited a Crosman “150” from a friend’s clean-out of their in-laws’ attic. Had original box and manual, and even a “spice tin” of oxidized “ashcan” .22 pellets. Read in this blog about the oxidation issue and promptly tossed them. The pistol was stuck internally, so I went to the list of repair shops and found a gunsmith that unstuck her for me and included several plastic vials of Pelgunoil, which I’ve used on each CO2 cartridge ever since in all my CO2 guns. However, now this vintage 150 doesn’t want to hold it’s gas. I pierce a new cartridge, shoot a few shots at squirrels or whatever in the back yard, but not enough to use up the whole gas cartridge. Next time I take it out, maybe a week or so later, all the CO2 has leaked out. Anybody have any suggestions ? Also, I looked at Crosman’s custom page and wrote to them asking if the grips and sights they sell there would fit my 150, or is it too old, and got no reply … maybe they’re laughing too hard to type … anyone have any ideas on that question ? Thanks !

  20. B.B.,

    I’d also like you shopping for me at the Roanoke show. I need to plan on making that show next year. Have you ever seen a bb gun that used a rubber band as its power source? The one I have is called “The Sharpshooter”. I’ve posted additional information and some pictures (please don’t give me grief about the photo’s. yes, I read your 5 part series and i’m still a poor photographer)here:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/405945/message/1222438142/Vintage–+BB+gun%2C+rubber+band+power+plant.++Have

    kevin

  21. Hi B.B.

    Great post. Apparently I’ve been under-oiling my 850.

    In the next installment, can you cover the 12-gram adapter for the 850? I’m planning to pick one up. Should we oil (1) the tops of each 12-gram powerlet using one large drop for each, (2) the cartridge piercing mechanism (where the adapter screws in) with five drops, or (3) both?

    Bob in CA

  26. Wayne at ashland range,

    Congratulations on your Hy-Score 801. Did you know it was also distributed as a Winchester 425? Regarding locating a date, look at this article bb did on the diana 27, scroll down towards the bottom of the comments and there are several places bb recommends looking for the date stamp. also look at the last comment (second to last?) and this guy found a date stamp in a place bb never knew existed.

    /blog/2005/11/diana-27-a-golden-oldie/

    kevin

  27. B.B.,

    Apologies. Please ignore my next 5 posts. I never even thought you would write about a rubber band gun so I didn’t search. Did a google search and for some reason they didn’t turn up on google. Your blog search engine revealed several articles. Yes, i’m an idiot for assuming you wouldn’t write about a rubber band gun. Please ignore me, i deserve it.

    kevin

  29. B.B.

    Good info. For the 747, I was wondering if instead of brushing the oil wiper with a paper towel dipped in Pellgunoil whether I could just shoot Ballistol directly onto the oil wiper. I can wait for the correct installment of the series.

    I'm also eagerly awaiting your report on another BAM product. >:-)

    Matt61

  30. Kevin,

    Wow, that is the one I’ve been looking for… thanks for the link.. I told a long story last month (sorry for the digression) of my childhood first rifle, being a Hy-Score, but I didn’t know what model.. I believe now it’s the clone of the Diana 27. I read all 108 comments, so informative…
    Oh, I did find some numbers on the Hy-score 801, on the under side of the barrel. 8 4 9 6
    spaced like that, but not perfectly lined up..

    B.B.
    When you go to the show, a couple three Diana 27s, or Hy-score equal, will be a great leverage for the arm wrestle match…
    I also read you have one you’ll never part with, that was in 2005, still true?

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  31. BB, are you sure that JG airguns is still in business? The link “” has been virus-infected for weeks (if not months) now – I learned the hard way – and parts of the page don’t seem to want to work.

    I’d think that if he was still active these problems would’ve been fixed long ago…

  32. BB,
    My co2 crosman 1077 was never working properly. From the day I bought it, it leaked like a race horse. The first 20 shots were good, then as I got low Co2 it all came out at once. Now the problem has progressed. I can get 2 good shots before it starts to leak. I am cosidering sending it to a repair shop. Do you know of any in VA? Also trigger mecanism for the pro77 doesn’t work anymore. maybe I’ll get around to it.
    Shadow express dude

  36. BB, after loading the magazine of a model 25, how is one supposed to reinstall the shot tube assembly? It appears that it has to be pushed over the air outlet tube, which of course dislodges the first BB. Or it can be loaded while cocked (ugh!). What is the right way of doing it?

  41. Thanks B.B.,

    So timely indeed. My first Co2 gun, a crossman 2240 is scheduled to arrive tomorrow from Pyrimid. (according to Fedex) Is there anything else I should be alerted to prior to first shot?

    Great blog!!
    Take care
    Jim

  43. Today the Williams peep sight arrived for my Sheridan CB9 5mm.

    Before installing it, I had to remove the OEM rear sight, so I proceeded this way:

    1. I measured the distance from the back of the rear sight to the front of the receiver [3.5”] in case I wanted to reinstall the rear sight some time in the future.
    2. I removed the rear sight. The sight is held on by strong spring force to supports underneath it on either side of the barrel. At first I put a heavy piece of wood 18” long on the front of the rear sight with the butt of the rifle on the floor, so that the wood formed a “T” across the front of the rear sight, and tried to force the sight to the rear and off the side supports.
    3. That didn’t work, so I got a wooden .5” dowel 10” long and used it and a soft hammer to drive the sight off toward the receiver. That worked, but there was slippage of the supports, so a little paint came off. No damage was done to the rear sight or to the supports, and no damage was done to the barrel or pressure tube.

    Next, I installed the Williams peep sight. It attaches on the right side of the receiver, behind the bolt handle, using a single screw. There is a recess and two holes in the receiver at that point; the screw goes into the rear hole and a locating pin on the inside of the Williams peep sight goes into the front hole. Make sure that pin is properly inserted before tightening the rear screw.

    The Williams peep sight does not have any elevation or traversing knobs; there are screws that need to be loosened and retightened to adjust windage, and a slotted “grub screw” to adjust elevation. To adjust elevation, a locking-screw on the bolt-side of the sight must be loosened. Re-tighten the side screw after the adjustment.

    To adjust windage, loosen two screws on either side of the peep sight. Use the machined shoulder to which the peep sight is mounted to align with the white index marks on the sight for side-to-side movement.

    Evaluation: The sight is well made, and looks better on the rifle than the OEM sight. Although I would have preferred adjusting knobs, the set-up as is works just fine, and I was able to zero the rifle with only two 3-shot groups; all I had to do was move the sight slightly to the right. I like the sight, and recommend it.

    –Witt

  46. B.B.:

    I ordered a Daisy 22SG after reading some laudatory reviews on Pyramydair as well as your review, and today I received it. After removing it from the plastic sheath I took it down into my basement to try it out. The pellets were hitting 1.5” below the aim-point. I had to raise the rear leaf sight all the way up in order to hit the aim-point. The pellets were penetrating the target, but they seemed to lack power. Also, putting 10 pumps into the rifle seemed to be much easier than I felt it should be.

    I decided to mount the scope, and as I was getting ready to zero it, I heard air escaping from the rifle while I was aiming. It was a rapid leak, and when I fired, the pellet just barely reached the target.

    I’d rather not go through the trouble of returning the rifle if there might be an easy fix. Do you have any suggestions? I have already lubed the pump action [pump head] where it says “oil here.” I used Pellgunoil.

    Thanks,
    –Witt

  47. Witt,

    If Pellgunoil doesn’t take care of it the gun has to be fixed. All it takes is a tiny piece of dirt on one of the seals or rings to make the gun leak like that.

    However, give the oil a chance to work through the mechanism. Pump it and shoot it at least 10 times before you give up.

    Tell me what happens

    B.B.

  48. B.B.

    Things have changed since you wrote the article in Nov. 2005, of course. It sounded like the shows had a few more Diana 27s and their clones back then..
    Another great example of buying and holding the right airguns….

    And still holding… HMMMMM… the search has heightened rewards.. This will be extra fun..

    Wayne,
    AARR&R

  53. B.B.

    Thanks, for the quick response..

    With Volvo’s encouragement, I ordered the “Blue book of airguns” from PA today, so I can do more of this research myself.. thanks for your help until I get it… It should come with the rebuilt Avenger 1100s and the parts to fix my S410 magazine, (Matt61)..

    I’d like to see if I can do the 45 shots on a 1″ dot at 60′ again, after the rebuild, and barrel shimming, for that report on the Avenger 1100 series for you … Chris should be done with them today.. and probably ship them on Monday.

    I’m also upgrading to a Leapers 8-32x56AO for the S410, and moving the 6-24×50 to the S310 I hope is on the way. Have you ever tried the 8-32? I liked what Gino said about it in the TX200 guest blog..

    Wayne,

  55. BB – Can’t wait for the Roanoke Expo. Already got a hotel room and friday off work. Looking forward to meeting you and some of the other members of this distinguished group.

    Randy in VA

  56. Bruce,

    The Crosman custom pistol is great! I have the same configuration as yours except with a 14.6″ barrel and walnut sport grips. Found a good deal on Cocobolo target grips later at EBay. The Cocobolo looks much better!

    I did trigger mods on my 1377 so I knew what to do for the custom pistol. I bought the adjustable trigger parts for the 2300S and installed them. An easy alternate fix is to replace the spring with a weaker spring from the hardware store.

    The power and number of shots surprised me too. It is quite accurate. I am in the middle of converting it to PCP now.

    .22 multi-shot

  59. il bruce,

    Congrats on the 2300 pistol! A quick polish on the trigger and sear and a lighter spring on the trigger and you’ll swear it’s an even better gun. I’ve got the cocobolo grips on mine, too. Didn’t like the high gloss finish. I stripped it off and polished the wood to a nice matte. Looks very good. It’s quite powerful for it’s size.

    Interbike? I was able to beg off this year. I’ve been going since it used to be held in Anaheim. I find it to be 3 days of carrying around a shoulder bruising messenger bag while rushing from one appointment to the next without actually seeing anything. Las Vegas is just too much insanity.

    Derrick

  62. annon,

    Yep, can’t wait to get it.. as you see I need it badly.. I was just going on a comment comparing the LG55 to the HW55 in quality and accuracy, but maybe I was wrong on what I remembered about the comparison.. or something for sure.. anyway I glad the blue book is coming.. lots to learn for this old horse trader..

    Wayne,

    Wayne,

  63. Wayne,

    Yes, I have a Leapers 8-32. I have it mounted on my USFT at present. It’s very clear and bright, all the way up to 32 power, which is more than I can say for my Tasco 8-40 that dims after 30 power.

    And the price is hundreds less than 8-32s used to cost. I think Leapers has affected the entire scope market, buy offering so much value for so little. They may not be the best in all departments, but they are good enough to keep all the others on their toes.

    B.B.

  66. Vince,

    Thanks for the link. That is a $250 gun at best. It has no target sights, which will cost another $100 to buy – if you can find them.

    Walther 55s are a glut on the market. Hundreds of club guns have been dumped on the U.S. market over the past 20 years, so collectors are looking for well-preserved guns with all the tools and equipment. I’ve seen average beaters with no sights selling for $150.

    B.B.

  67. Vince, B.B.

    Thanks again B.B. for saving my butt. I better wait for the book, before buying any more.. My guesses are way off..

    Thanks to you also, Volvo, for the blue book lead… I'll be waiting and watching and selling the low end non classics, on Gunbroker.

    Wayne,
    AARR&R

    Wayne,

  68. Wayne,

    I did the same thing when I saw the Walther, got excited until I pulled out the Blue Book.
    I have read posts faulting some of the prices, but I think it is a great resource. Needless to say, the actual worth is determined by what someone will pay.

    Volvo

  69. Hey B.B.
    These will be great reports, since it will be the first time I will see detailed PHOTOS of were to oil specific air rifles…. Keep up the good work sir….. It is not the same reading what to oil, than seeing what to oil… and how… jajaj.. (at least for the novice)…
    Cheers,
    Jony

  70. This is a follow-up report on the Williams peep sight mounted on the Sheridan CB9.

    I neglected to mention that the aperture peep sight itself was loose and needed to be snugged down. Don’t forget this step when you mount your sight, or you will lose the aperture.

    I have had a chance to shoot the rifle some more. I don’t merely like the Williams sight, I love it. I get superior groups over the ones I was getting from the original “V” sight, mainly because I can see the front sight much better.

    –Witt

  71. Volvo,

    That's what my "Horse traden Dad" use to say…

    There is a BSA Techstar .22 cal on the American Airguns classifieds for $375.. I thought it might be a good deal, like new with box and all.. I did a google and found B.B. blog in 2005, checked to see at PA and found it discontinued.. the blog said PA was having a sale for $370… back then..

    That seems like a very low cost for a great PCP hunter, with that low noise bolt feature..

    B.B.
    What is the story now with the BSA Techstar? You really liked it back then, how is the value now..

    http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/classifieds.php?StartingAd=50&NumberOfPages=3

    Jeff,

    Got the "bloop Tube" for the Condor, wow, very easy to install, just loosen the allen screw on the end cap collar and slide off the collar, slide on the tube, tighten, and very, very, quite Condor… I love it!!! Now I can shoot at full power, (if I wanted to), in the pool room range, at night.. Very good product..

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  72. WAYNE,

    THE Techstar is a cheaper version of the BSA Hornet that Compasseco had built just for them. It is a good PCP rifle, but it has to be pressurized to 3350 psi to get the full count of shots.

    I sold my prototype for $275 two years ago and I guess they are up to 300 by now. Maybe with pretty wood they can be worth more, but the Hornet is the more valuable model.

    B.B.

  73. B.B.
    These ideas may sound dumb, but you and others in the forum may answer them… It’s just to clarify my mind with an expert’s opinion…
    1) Is it possible to make a springer that contains two metal springs instead of one???? It will make cocking harder, but it could shoot heavy pellets with more energy… It may be even heavier…

    2) Is it possible to create a “double barrel” air rifle (similar to those vintage hunting rifles) that could shoot two pellets at the same time, with the same speed and energy, for hunting???… It must obviously have two metal springs for each barrel… (I dont know)

    3) Is it possible to fusion CO2 power with Metal spring power??? In other words, use both types of power plants under the same air rifle………. It could be either to COMBINE each in order to increase the power of the pellet… Or to OPPOSE each to reduce the vibration of a spring rifle… (I sort of have an image of how it could be but its hard for me to write it, since English is my second language.. I am from Puerto Rico… But just try to imagine how CO2 could oppose or combine with the metal spring w/out affecting the energy output, it would require an ENORMOUS synchronization)…

    4)I know that a rifle’s barrel length is important to achieve greater velocities and energy… But what is more important: the rifle’s barrel length or the rifle’s Metal Spring length.. If you make the spring’s chamber longer (by consequence the spring too) and keep the barrel the same, would it shoot with more energy??

    5) Why does a trigger requires the shooter to input 2-4 pounds of energy in order to shoot, why can’t there be a small electric device in which you press the trigger (with less than one pound of energy), it activates the device, and the device releases the spring… This can affect the shooter’s accuracy, an example is the GRT-III trigger for Gamo and other rifles… Some paintball guns employ this…………….

    *****I would appreciate if the following variables were left out: price, weight (unless extremely significant), and length (unless extremely significant)****

    Anyways, I have a couple of other things in mind… lets just see how these ones go… jajajaj… By the way… For those who think that these thoughts are stupid, good for you… Sorry to waste your time… Just don’t answer please… Well I need to go…LOL… take care B.B. and the others.. Keep up the good work people…………
    Cheers,
    Jony

  74. B.B.

    Thanks, for the info on the BSA Techstar. I've got a "like new" BSA lonestar .22 cal coming from a nice guy in the bay area, I got it for $350 + 40 shipping, with a weaver scope and plastic case. I hope I did alright on that one.

    But now, I'm thinking I should send you money, plus my trade credit for the HW 55 Tyrolean..

    Sort of takes some of the fun out of it, but a better investment by far, I'm sure… With your knowledge and the large inventory of classics at the Roanoke Airgun Expo on Friday and Saturday, October 24 & 25. HHHMMMM How much can you carry back, or ship from there? The more shopping you do for me, the lower the price for the 55?

    Oh, Randy and I went to the big boys range today and shot the win .270 and the New England break barrel .243 The little New England kicks as hard and is as loud, as the Winchester, at least with the "light recoil" rounds I was using in the win.
    I forgot my allen wrench, for the leapers scope, (I'm with you Matt61) and was unable to adjust the scope on the win. but Randy watched where I was hitting, 6' left at 100 yards, and I was able to get 4 shots to land on the 8" shoot and see by using the mil dots and guessing 6' right and 1' low..

    The little New England was not tight on the allens, so I could adjust it, and it was nailing the 8" dots real well… So I'm ready for deer season, with at least one rifle, the win will tune in easy, I'm sure..

    After, the winchester, I got out my $160 new Marlyn 60 semi auto with the leapers 6-24×50 and adjusted the 6" higher for the 100 yards and grouped 6" on rapid fire shots, over and over again.. That seems like it would kill a deer as well, wouldn't it? Can't I get some larger grain .22 long rifle, that will fit the Marlyn 60?

    Wayne
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  75. Jony,

    may I try to answer a few questions?

    1) There are some springers that have a smaller coil spring inside a bigger one. And search BB’s blog for the “Whiscombe” air rifle. This gun actually has two pistons, each with a mainspring, moving against each other to eliminate recoil.

    2) This would be possible, but you’d also double the spring twang and the pellets will not hit the same spot because the barrels have some space in between and the pellts will not leave the barrel exactly simultanoulsy…so why not simply shoot one projectile with more power?

    3) Well, really combining some Precompressed Air / Co2 with a “normal” mainspring mechanism would require a great deal of synchronization, and would be near impossible. But have a look at the mechanism of the Ana arms guns you’ll see that you can increase efficiency by having a spring that acts on the pressurized reservoir.

    4) Rifle’s barrel length, spring and chamber volume must be matched to each other. There is no single factor being more important.

    5) There is a large number of designs out there that would allow you to make triggers with almost zero pull weight. But there are many countries that make the company responsible for damage and injuries created by their air rifle, unless the gun has a very heavy trigger.
    The reason why Gamo has such an extremely poor trigger is also not understandable to me.
    P.s: Your “electric design” is also available with spring, and is called “Stecher”. It is an old design that was rarely used on airguns.

  76. Jony,

    1. Yes, there are several two-spring airguns:

    Whiscombes
    Diana models 6, 10, 72, 75, 400, 60, 65, and 66
    Park air rifles

    2. Double barrel air rifles exist, but none of them shoot both barrels at the same time – just as no double rifles or shotguns shoot both barrels together. The double-barrel arrangement has always been for a fast second shot – never to shoot both shots at the same time.

    3. I have never heard of CO2 being used to dampen recoil in a spring gun. But Anschutz used oil in a sealed cylinder in the model 250 target rifle.

    4. A spring rifle’s barrel has zero bearing on its velocity. That only holds true for a pneumatic or a gas gun. Yes, a longer swept volume (NOT a longer mainspring) will increase velocity. A more powerful spring often REDUCES power!

    5. The Morini 162E and the FWB 90 pistols both have electronic triggers. Neither of them is as good as the finest mechanical triggers, plus they are more unreliable.

    B.B.

  77. Wayne,

    Too many questions!

    But don’t think of using a heavier bullet in your Marlin model 60. Ther 1:16″ twist rate is correct for a 40-grain bullet. The only heavier bullet I know of is a 60-grain that Aguila makes, and it takes a 1:10″ twist rate to stabilize it. Also, the extra recoil will wreck your Marlin.

    One last comment. Your Winchester .270 shot 6 feet to the left!!!?? Interesting, isn’t it, that a FIREARM has the same problem with scope alignment that air rifles have?

    B.B.

  79. B.B. & All

    THIS IS NOT ABOUT AIR RIFLES, DON'T READ IT!! sorry for the digression again..

    That's just me, great response, direct but kind.. I'm overflowing with questions…

    Yes, that's at 100 yards, and I hope I can adjust the scope on the win .270 that much.. I didn't want to take off the rear sight, so the only scope I could fit is a 3-9x40AO leapers. The mounts that came on the win, were too low for a larger scope even if I took off the rear sight, so I left it.. Does any one know where to get higher mounts for a Winchester .270… It doesn't have a scope rail, I don't know where to start on it.. It looks like it will take special hardware..

    We watched "The Flying Scotsman" last night.. Very good movie and I love a true story, thank you for the homework.
    The World Cycling Ass (I left off the period on purpose) is, it seems, politically motivated, to promote only their own member manufacturers.. So your saying that is what happened to the HW 55 Tyrolean stock.

    Why can't we have a non profit organization run these kind of events, that is elected each two years by the cycling public, or air gun public, just vote on line or at your local bike shop/air gun shop.

    I also noted that the bully kids, never grew up, still bullies as adults.. Again, it's a 90% chance there fathers, bullied them as very young children, thinking they needed to be tough, or that is all they knew about child rearing, being bullied themselves as kids..
    These people don't even know the damage they do to other people, in some way they might think they are making some tough for the outside world, or just doing what was done to them..

    You need a license to drive a car, buy a gun, get married, etc.. I know young people can have children without a course.. but if you start young enough, you can teach communication and child rearing basics, and give out a "license" of qualified to have children, at age 16 or 18, saying you also have to learn what real love is, before you get your license.. This can only be a peer pressure type thing, but, I bet this is a better way to get kids to wait for sex.. and treat each other with respect…

    Again, I'm off the subject of air guns, but you gave me the homework.. so chill out everyone..

    Wayne,

  80. Wayne,

    You ask why. The answer is money.

    We elect politicians, but once they get in and “learn the game” (their word for it), they get connected and get the money to stay in. A professional politician is a really bad thing – just as an entrenched volunteer can be.

    And don’t make the mistake of thinking that non-profit organizations don’t make a lot of money for their members!

    B.B.

  81. Jajaja… Oh well, all has been done already… That’s the bad thing about 21st century, almost everything has been thought up already…. jajaja… i’m kidding… Well people, thank you very much for enlightening me….. I really appreciate it… But WOW, i looked up through the internet the Whiscombe, and their preeeeetty expensive… But as always, Thank you all very much… Take care… and keep up the good work!!!
    Cheers,
    Jony

  82. MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND, WORLD GO ROUND, WORLD GO ROUND….

    MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND, WORLD GO ROUND, WORLD GO ROUND….

    MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND, WORLD GO ROUND, WORLD GO ROUND….

    MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND, WORLD GO ROUND, WORLD GO ROUND….

    It’s all in the Cabaret old chum..

    Wayne

  83. B.B. & All,

    Back to Air Guns,
    Condor Bloop tube report and thanks to Jeff and B.B. for pointing out the chance to quite down the Condor, so I will be able shoot a lot more., with out bothering people.

    Jeff was telling me in an email how it's nice when the sound of hitting the target is louder than the discharge. I was emailing back and thought to make it a comment instead…

    Jeff,
    I was doing just that, at 35 yards this morning. We have Kiln dried Port Orford Cedar trim ends, from our raised garden bed business, and I shoot at them indoors and out. Port Orford Cedar is so hard and strong it is used in large boat frames and as timbers in bridges and piers.. So when the pellet hit it, it makes a lot of noise, especially if there are two layers of boards, that I must have with the condor on high, so the first board is slammed against the second. That is where most of the noise comes from now, with the power adjuster on 10 or more..

    On 7 it's quite as a mouse, (almost), especially when it hits the silent target with the clay type stuff. I put another layer on the single layer, it comes with. Now even the Condor on 10 power won't come out the back like it did on 7 power before.. The paper target won't slide in the slot anymore, but I just tape it to the top. So thanks for the "Bloop Tube" for my Condor, sorry it didn't work on the shorter barrel you had on the Talon, but great deal for me..

    Wayne

  84. BB
    I noticed that Beeman now offers a verson of their kodiak as well as a others with a copper coating. They claim greater energey, accuracy, and a cleaner bore. All of which I deem suspect to be nothing more than marketing, yet I am curious. Is it possible for you to do a side by side comparison of the standard kodiak as it stands up to the new double gold kodiak? I am mostly interested In the .22 cal version and I may try them when they re enter the py air inventory.

    Thanks
    CBH

  86. Beeman and their “gold” kick is really making me want to regurgitate…why ruin a nice gun like the R7 or R9 for example with tacky glitz? I think people buy it because it is more expensive.

    Now the pellets are copper coated and called double gold??? I bet they have a new copper-removing bore scrubber product coming out soon.

  87. bg-farmer,

    I had some on the last order I was building with PA, and then had the second thoughts, just as you commented… and took them off.. I’ll wait for a while, if at all..

    Sounds like the marketing dept. is in charge again… or it is an attempt to convince us that it is “greener” to wrap the lead with copper mined under who knows where and under what conditions…

    let’s just be a little careful with the lead to start with..

    Speaking of lead, the dogs just gave the “squirrel on the birdfeeder” alarm, maybe the Condor with the Bloop tube this time..
    Josh loves squirrel fed on sunflower seeds.. I’ll trade for venison jerky.. if I’m lucky..

    Wayne,

  88. OK Derrick, I pulled the grips of the pistol and found the trigger easy to get at. No I am a bit more confident about polishing the works.

    I have a jewelry buffing wheel at work. Is that OK. How tough is it to remove and replace the sear?

    I also have access to a plating lab. Is it worth nickle plating the brass instead of polishing?

  89. Wayne,
    If you think that the moderated Condor is quiet, then I wonder what you will think when you use CO2 with it. It is very, very quiet, and with all the cheap shots that it delivers, just perfect for your operation.
    – Dr. G.

  90. dr. g.

    I haven’t tried the CO2 in anything yet. I’m reluctant to add another power supply at this time… But that is something to look forward too in the future. I here that you get a very large number of shots as well as being very, very quite.. I would want to do some bulk fill situations, before I get into it yet.. still exploring the area..

    Wayne
    Aahland Air Rifle Range

  91. Vince, anon, B.B., et al …

    JG IS still in business, and only 1 page of his site had a virus problem, that my outdated freebie AV program caught and quarantined for me, last Friday. I admit, however, that I did not explore every page within his site, so there may have been more that just the one I encountered. I wrote to him about it and within a couple hours got a reply that he was investigating. Very nice guy. Thanks, B.B., for the link.

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