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The Benjamin Discovery – Part 3 Velocity

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by Tom Gaylord

Part 1
Part 2

Before we begin, I have some announcements.

This will probably miss those for whom it’s intended. For some reason, people have been emailing airgun questions to which they want immediate answers to tomgaylord@pyramydair.com. That address is for podcast questions, only. I never answer those messages. If you have a question, ask it here. Though there are now more than 750 blog entries, I get the comments from each of them all the time. I go to the segment where the question was asked and I try to answer it there. I do not send emails directly.

Right now, I’m getting 30-50 questions every day. It takes 3-4 hours a day just to keep up with the comments. I want to do it, but as the volume increases I can see the day coming when I can’t do it. What takes the most time is when someone asks me to choose a scope or a set of mounts for them. Another question that takes time is when a person wants me to compare four rifles for them and give reasons for my choices. I may have to stop answering those questions soon so I can answer the fundamental questions from new airgunners.

One of our own, .22 multi-shot, has his own blog. I went there and took a tour and so should you. I’m fascinated by the air-powered car that gets 800 km on 1.7 liters of fuel. As long as it’s not plutonium, that’s great mileage!

Another reader, John, just bought a Crosman M1 Carbine. It came without the BB holder, as so many do, so he wondered if a real M1 Carbine mag could be altered to fit. Go here to see how he did it.

Now, on to today’s topic and the Benjamin Discovery!

More development history
Remember those good-looking groups I showed you at 21 yards in Part 2? Well what I didn’t tell you was the gun was also very quiet. I was so thrilled that I emailed Crosman and told them they had made a quiet airgun. Then I thought about it some more and the reason for the quiet dawned on me. The valve was in partial lock and I was shooting slow. For those wanting a sneak peek at CO2 performance, that was it, but a lot slower. My point is, accuracy doesn’t suffer at close range when velocity drops.

Flirting with valve lock
Sure enough, the chronograph showed that the .177 was shooting Crosman 10.5-grain Premiers at about 575 and shooting .22 caliber Premiers at about 500! The valve wasn’t opening all the way. So, I continued to shoot and both guns came up on the power curve at around 1,700 psi. I had filled them to 2,000 psi on my pump’s gauge, which was pretty close to the built-in manometers on each rifle. Clearly, these guns didn’t like that. You may recall some time back I told you about the inaccuracy of a small pressure gauge. It had happened to me! By careful testing, I’d found the point at which each rifle wanted to be filled, which turned out to be above 1700 but below 1800 on the pump gauge I was using. Who cares what pressure it really was, because that gauge was all I had to go on.

No free lunch
Once I found the right fill pressure, the guns started barking with great authority. And there’s an answer to those who asked about the sound. These rifles are loud, just like any other PCPs in their power class. There has been some talk on the forums that because the rifle runs on 2000 psi, it should be quieter. Well, it isn’t. My Barnes .25 that ran on 800 psi and had a 33-inch barrel wasn’t quiet, either. Face it, guys, PCPs make noise.

Did Crosman think about a shrouded barrel? Yes, they did. They even considered putting one on the Discovery, but I strongly opposed it, because the cost of the rifle was climbing too fast. I wanted something everyone could afford to begin with, and we would worry about the issues of adjustable triggers and barrel shrouds on the next model. The Discovery is supposed to open the doors to precharged airguns, not to be the perfect PCP.

Initial velocity
Back to my report…the initial velocity in .177 peaked at 953 f.p.s. with 7.9-grain Crosman Premiers and in .22, using Premiers, a peak of 834 f.p.s. The power curve was not flat for more than 20 shots, but if you could accept a wider velocity variation (about 45 f.p.s.), there were around 35 shots to each fill. Say what you want about the wide spread, those tight groups at 50 yards were shot with the gun in this initial state of tune.

Additional refinements
At this time, the design engineer and I were discussing seals for the manometer, which was causing a minor problem. It sealed fine with plumber’s tape around the threads, but plumber’s tape is not a production sealant. Crosman needed something that was faster, required less labor and was positively reliable (no dependence on the skill of the worker). They settled on a flat seal, but then there were durometer questions to be answered (the hardness of the sealing material).

Another project he was working on was a filter to trap dirt before it enters the reservoir. Many, if not most PCPs do not have such a filter, but the Discovery does. It won’t make the gun any more accurate, but it’s evidence of the approach they took when building this gun.

After a couple months of playing with both rifles, Crosman changed the valve design and I was asked to return them both for an update. When I did, they also sent me the new breech cap that has a hole for the degassing tool. That’s how you dump the reservoir to change types of gasses, want to ship the gun or when you’ve overfilled the reservoir (which happens only with air).

01-19-08-degasser
 

End cap of the receiver has a hole for a special tool that Crosman calls the degasser. It dumps the reservoir in seconds whenever desired.
A new valve
When the rifles were returned to me, both would accept a fill to 2000 psi on my pump gauge. The manometer on the .177 showed exactly 2000 when filled, and the needle on the .22 manometer just kissed the low edge of 2000 when filled. Neither manometer appeared to have been changed. Velocities were definitely up with the new valve. In .177, the high was now 975 with 7.9-grain Premiers, so lighter pellets will have no difficulty breaking 1,000 f.p.s. Of course, you’ll actually shoot Crosman 10.5-grain Premiers and JSB 10.2-grain Exacts with velocities in the high 800s up to 900, because you want the most accuracy possible.

.22 performance
The .22 hit 860 f.p.s. with Premiers and averaged 856 for a string of 25. There are still 35 good accurate long-range shots in both rifles. If you shoot at 25 yards or less, you’ll get even more. Accuracy remains unchanged. Many months later, after much more shooting, a retest showed the average had settled back to 820, which is probably more like what you should expect to see in the long run. I would guess 820-840 will be where they end up. The number of total shots is still 35 if you accept a larger spread, but hunters who shoot at 40-60 yards will probably go with a string of 25. At 820 with Premiers, the gun has 21.36 foot-pounds. With Kodiaks, the velocity drops back to about 700 and the energy climbs to 22.85. Kodiaks are about the heaviest pellet I’d use with this rifle.

There’s the bulk of the report – the gun, accuracy and velocity. I’ve been asked to report the gun on CO2, which I’ll do next month. If you have any questions I failed to address, please make comments and I’ll look at them.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
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231 thoughts on “The Benjamin Discovery – Part 3 Velocity”

  1. We still haven’t seen any hard numbers on the 35 “usable” shots from the Discovery. What is the fps difference between the fastest and slowest shot in the 35 shot string? This looks like a lot of gun for the money, but a little more info would be appreciated. What is the size of the reservoir.
    Does this gun have a power adjuster? Thanks.

  3. You mention about 20 good shots from it on the lower 1700 pressure. I assume those 20 shots are all within accuracy, right? None of them drop off downrange due to the pressure loss? Anyway, 20 sounds plenty for a good rabbit hunt. Now I just gotta’ get the purchase authorization past my wife….. JP

  5. BB,

    is the endcap the same as in the 2300S? With a bolt in the threaded hole it should be possible to adjust the hammerspring and to tune the power.

    Is the discovery already patented? I can´t find any diagrams.

    Markus

  6. Thanks BB, I am very interested in the Discovery. Currently shooting a RWS48 tuned following your series with the James Maccari spring; It is nice but heavy with a good kick. Shooting the crosmen pump with zero kick is pleasing because you see the target hit through the scope as it happens verses being off the target from the recoil.

    My question is how much louder than the 48 will the Discovery be?

    Thanks,

  9. ouch. For me that sound level is a show stopper. Have to stick with my 48 till I can justify the cost of a Air Force Talon SS (much less visually appealing than the discovery) with pump which is nearly $700 and also a show stopper at that price.

    Thank you, I learn a ton on your blogs.

  10. Keeping the cost down and making the Discovery an entry PCP gun was the right path. It can’t be perfect at this price. It has good power and accuracy. The package is a great value.

  11. Will shrouds be available in the future? Or are they available now from other sorces?
    I would love to get this rifle but I have a Sheridan now and know what it sounds like at 8 pumps.
    Also in the future will upgraded models be available?

  12. First, a question about the Discovery, in the first segment it was compared in size to the Crossman 2260. My son has a 2260 which seems to me to be proportioned for a younger or smaller framed person. I have trouble shooting it comfortably. You also mention it had a different stock than the 2260. Does the Discovery have a more robust feel to it, or does it retain compact lines of the 2260? To be specific, does the Discovery have the same “pull length” as the 2260?

    Second, I have found this blog to be entertaining, very educational, and a great resource. I would hate to see it change, but also realize at some point the time required to answer questions from past post will become prohibitive. Your introduction of other blogs as well as some general guidelines for asking questions should help. Some other options would be more guest reports, or possibly farming out some basic questions to other experts.
    In any case thank you and Pyramyd AIR for providing such a great forum.

    DCS

  13. I have two questions..

    First, Would you consider this a good “first” PCP for someone???

    Second, is Pyramyd AIR going to be selling just the gun???? Crosman sells the gun and pump or just the gun. Will Pyramyd AIR do the same???

  16. Andrew,

    This is the perfect first PCP for anyone. It gets you in the game and doesn’t give up anything, as far as accuracy and power are concerned.

    I announced in part 1 of the report that Pyramyd AIR will sell the gun combo starting next month. I believe they will be selling the gun by itself, as well as the package. Crosman knows there are about a couple thousand PCP owners here in the U.S. who may not need another pump, so they thought to sell the rifle by itself.

    But the bulk of those who will buy it have never owned a PCP. That’s potentially over a hundred thousand new shooters, because once the word gets out that this pellet rifle can out-shoot a Ruger 10/22 Target for a lot less money, there’s going to be a stampede to the stores.

    B.B.

  17. BB,

    I just saw the LOP measurement — good news for those who hate huge stocks on small rifles. There will be a dozen custom stock options in a week for the thumbhole and benchrest crowd, anyway. Most of the reviews and feedback I have seen so far praise the gun for its trim size and light weight, another indication that Crosman may have paid some attention to its target market:) and may have a bigger segment than they think.

  18. If only Wal-Mart would sell it, to get an even better deal, and laugh at my friends with their over priced euro-PCPs haha.

    But then again, I don’t Wal-Mart getting a big head for good reputation since everything else is cheap there and made in China.

    I do buy Crosman pellets and co2 there caue its cheaper though.

  19. Thank you for the informative and as always comprehensive Blog. Most of the questions could be answered with the cut and paste function; but then a re-reading by the questioner would be even faster 🙂 Please put you efforts toward the “newbi” questions their purchases make sure us old hands get the “insider” upgrades from the industry.
    Thank You,
    Shootski

  20. Feedback for BB and Crosman.

    You mentioned a possible shrouded model. About how long do you think it will take until this is a reality? Shroud it and they will come.

    Thanks,

    Barry

  21. B.B./Blog Readers,
    I am having trouble finding the proper size 12 gram co2 cartridges for my Drozd bb rifles, which I have been enjoying for the past year. The Crossman cartridges were always a tiny bit too long (perhaps a few millimeters) to fit, and so I had successfully used Daisy cartridges. In my most recent order to PA, the Daisy cartidges that I received were slightly different than the previous several orders in how they were capped, resulting in them being slightly too long to fit. PA customer service thought there might be a way to adjust the Drozd metal probe which fits against the bottome of the CO2 cartridge, but we were unable to accomplish this (unable to remove a pin), and PA was unsure of how to proceed other than suggesting trying Gamo CO2 cartridges. Any suggestions anybody? Thank you. – Dr. G.

  22. Off Topic FYI

    I called Pyramid concerning resealing my old Sheridan (actually stamped Sheridan Products Inc.) and found out that
    1.) Pyramid air does not perform repairs on this

    2.) The reseal kit will not work on the older Real sheridans.

    Crosman does, however, keep a database of folks do repairs on these models and were able to get me a number of a repair shop within 50 miles of me. (most of which would be sitting on a ferry anyway)

  23. B.B.

    I understand absolutely about you possibly not being able to answer all the questions; I can’t believe that you answer all that you do. I will continue to put my questions into the ring, naturally, but understand absolutely if you don’t answer.

    On the subject of CO2, I know that if you fire shots in rapid succession that it heats the gas and somehow causes you to lose velocity. My question is to what extent you can get around this by burst firing–where you fire as fast as you can? Will this allow you to get off a number of shots before the gas effect kicks in or does it happen right away? I shoot the 1077 indoors at 20 feet without waiting for it to cool without any adverse effect, but perhaps this is too close to see a change. Thanks.

    Matt61

  24. Wow, great report! The numbers are only about 5-10 fps short of my RWS .22 460 Mag. I really would like one but for now I will stick to my 460 because 1) I can’t have that kind of noise in my backyard and my springer is firing just above the Discovery and is really accurate. Maybe I see myself purchasing the next upgraded model.
    Great Report!

  25. Hi Matt,

    The effect is actually from the oposite of heating up. The CO2 actually acts as a refrigerant. The cooling tempreatures actually decrease the preasure that the CO2 generates (less of it evaporates to gas at a time), that is what causes the drop in speed. The faster you pull the trigger, the more effeciently the CO2 acts as a refrigerant, and the less effeciently it acts as a propellant. Once the CO2 powerlet warms back up, preasures will come back up.

  26. I wonder if all this hype is going to work against this rifle. Sure lots have pre purchased but things can change fast. The chrony numbers seem kid friendly. Can we get 2500 fills with an updated valve.

  28. this is one of those times I am quite proud of my “reading comprehension”. bb, I understand why you will have to limit the questions you answer. I’m not denegrating anyone, but with some of the questions that are asked of you (with the answers staring people in the face, or somewhere else in other blogs), I believe some people should not be allowed to own airguns. I definitely wouldn’t want to be shooting anywhere near them.

  30. 1 Thanks for running such a great blog

    2 If most of your time is spent with a similar set of questions, why not create a chart with prominent links to & from Pyramyd’s home page? List the most common guns giving rise to the questions, with a couple scopes for each with appropriate mounts?

  31. Thanks Alfred. That’s unintuitive to me that CO2 cools down the faster you shoot, but I guess that makes sense since CO2 generally loses function in cooler weather. So, can you beat the effect by firing in bursts?

    Matt61

  32. Well the effect is that the faster you shoot the faster the CO2 cools. Instead of shooting as fast as you can, take a shot, and wait two or three seconds before taking another. Think of it as “Sustained fire” rather than “Rapid Fire”. This method of shooting is taught in the military for assault rifles to keep the barrels cool, and it should work the oposite for you.

  35. Barry,

    Regarding the shrouded model, Crosman was talking about it during the development of the Discovery. I know they are working on another gun, but I’m not part of the development team. I would think that one will have a shroud.

    When will it come out? Well, if I were to guess, it would be very late this year, but that’s just a guess.

    B.B.

  36. Dr. G.,

    I don’t think Daisy makes their own CO2 cartridges. I have a bulk box of 500 from Crosman that has a mixture of Crosman and Daisy cartridges in it. I’m not saying Crosman makes Daisy’s cartridges, but there aren’t that many companies who make CO2 cartridges.

    I pulled a Daisy and a Crosman cartridge from that box an miked them. The Crosman measures 3.260″ long and the Daisy measures 3.257″ . That’s so close it’s due to manufacturing variance.

    I don’t know how to adjust the Drozd CO2 container.

    B.B.

  37. Hi BB,

    JJ here,

    Bringing up an old question ….

    If there were only some way to search the comments, as well as the blogs/articles, much of the repetition could be avoided.

    Perhaps PA or Google could add that feature to the blog, along with “prominent links”.

    jj

  38. Matt,

    The reason CO2 cools down is because of the liquid to gas conversion of pressurized CO2. When some of the gas is used, the pressure decreases so part of the liquid turns into gas. To turn into gas, some of the ambient heat is absorbed by the molecules that become gas (the gaseous state requires more energy). The effect is that everything cools down (the heat has been taken away from it).

    .22 multi-shot

  42. For Dr. G,

    …the square plunger under the 12 gram is adjustable and threaded. the pin holds it in place once you get it adjusted properly for inserting the cartridges. It usually doesn’t take more than a quarter turn or half turn at most.

    I have also found most Gamo cartridges to work well.

  44. I know they were trying to keep the price down, but WHY didn’t they include about 1 1/2 inches more of barrel length so that if someone WANTED to add a LDC for noise control they COULD???

  45. JJ,

    An advanced search like you want is only possible when Blogger makes it happen. Blogger is owned by Google.

    They probably will someday, though not many blogs are as large as this one has become. It’s not that we are old, but we have been posting steadily.

    B.B.

  47. BB,

    I was remembering one of our prior “conversations”, and explaining to Nate the limits of the current search function.

    And also requesting that Google add that function to your blog, with maybe an additional push from PA, to save you from having to repeat so much information.

    jj

  49. B.B.
    I’ve just ordered a Discovery via Pyramyd. I need another PCP like I need a hole in the head but I want to encourage US manufacturers to bring quality products to amrket at reasonable prices. And, my two youngest kids will find this gun easier to shoot than the heavier and more complicated guns we have. I think Crosman has a hit on its hands and I applaud your involvement.
    Now for the cautionary note: Tuners and tinkerers of all or no skill levels are already looking for more power. I could care less about the guys putting better triggers in or a fancy stock but you can bet some knucklehead is already coming up with a plan to get 100 FPE out of this gun. I hope it’s not sold before it blows apart!
    I know you’ve written about improper and illadvised mods before but I wish you would again. Just this week I learned about someone loosing teeth due to a “tuned” gun and also about a “tuner” who lost a finger (and who’s website disappeared afterwards). Not every gun is designed to have its power doubled and silly airgun tricks that hurt people will harm the hobby.

  50. B.B.,

    When you recommended the UTG Tactedge 4×40 when I was asking about a fixed power scope, I also found your review on it. In there, you mentioned that it would be a fine fixed power scope for a centerfire rifle as well. Well, I’m looking at buying both a Marlin 60 .22LR and a Mossberg 100 ATR .30-06 in the near future. Just like with my RWS 48, I want a fixed power scope for them. Would the UTG be a good option? FYI, I’d be sighting in the .22 at 50 yds and the .30-06 at 100 yds. And since I know you’ll wonder, I don’t want a variable power for the .30-06, because I don’t imagine I’d be taking anything longer than a 100-yd shot with it. My hunting environment just doesn’t permit it.

    Thanks,

    Felipe

  51. Jerry:Good point! But as BB. said,Joe six pack says, if 2000 psi. is good,,then 3000 psi. is better!(I think he was talking about me!!) Valve lock will shut them down! Lets let the pro after market guys play w/ this one!! Besides,isnt 20 plus ft. lbs. PLENTY!! Also Cros. is USA!!!Across the “POND” they are Hmm? If Joe 6 pack decides to lose a finger, Im Sorry, he has 9 left! Not to be insensative my fr.–Take responsability!!

  53. wow. i figured id stay with spring piston guns for a while cause i dont want to pump up after every few shots, or pay huge money for gu/pump. however, this looks great! i think you said it gets 35 shots per fill?, and its adaptable to co2! for cheap! cool!! :)*)

  56. So there’s no issue with parallax? To be honest, I’m not really sure what that does to one’s accuracy (I’ve never used a scope, so I’m not even familiar with the phenomenon), so I wasn’t sure if it would come into play with the longer ranges of the firearms.

  57. Using Google,

    mysearchterm site:/blog//

    (Enclose the searchterm in quotes if lookng for a phrase. ie “my search term”)

    finds results in the comments for me…

    Hope that helps someone.

    Safe Shooting…

  61. Hi BB,

    Sorry for stating the obvious here. The first sign of needing a little down time from this blog is recognizing that down the road you may not be able to handle all these questions. Please take some time off each week to recover. Go fishing or to the movies or whatever. I’m sure that most of us will understand that sometimes you need to back up, even from work that you love. Running the blog daily would wear out even a robot. In the meantime, I think I can speak for all when I say that your work here is greatly appreciated and invaluable to all of us. We don’t want to lose you to burnout.

    /Shooter

  63. Shooter: Very well said! Like the Eng. Bunny,He Never Stops! Maybe if you more experienced guys could answer some of the questions it could take some pressure off BB.? Just a thought. BB., enjoy your RV. trip! Take your fishing rod, Ok, you can also “fish” w/ a PCP. for the ones that linger close to the surface!! LOL. Tim.

  64. BB,

    +1. I think the reason you’re so popular is that you give straight answers and aren’t a pompous, defensive ____, as would usually be expected from someone with your credentials. It was amazing to me (and still is) when I found this blog that you even allowed comments, questions, criticisms, etc., and responded openly to them. It feels more like a good classroom than a sales demonstration, and it can be addictive. For my part, I will try to keep questions to myself from now on. Sorry if we’re wearing you down.

  65. PA Gunner,

    Here are some links:

    /blog/2007/11/beeman-rs2-ss1000-h-dual-caliber-rifle-combo-part-1/

    That’s a 5-parter on the Beeman.

    /blog/2007/3/airforce-co2-adapter-is-put-to-the-test-part-2/

    2-parter on the Condor on CO2

    /blog/2006/3/turning-an-airforce-condor-into-a-talon-ss/

    /blog/2006/3/turning-an-airforce-condor-into-a-talon-ss/

    B.B.

  66. /Shooter,

    Not to worry. That very day I busted the caps of about 200 .45 ACP rounds.

    My busman’s holiday consists of shooting firearms, many of which I reload for.

    I cleared my head and got another chapter in the Taurus saga.

    B.B.

  69. After an all day shoot w/ my son today, we both came to the conclusion that w/ my Diana 460,Cros. G-1,& his Gamo big cat Kodiak Match pels. far out performed all others(accuracy wise). Ive heard that Barracuda match pels. are the same, & considering P.A. is offering such a great sale price, any thoughts before we order?? P.S., CPH was a close second. Thanks,Tim & John, AKA. Verminator!

  70. Great BB,

    Amazing how the zen of shooting can relax you. I think that the non-shooting world doesn’t understand that it’s a lot like right brain woodworking, martial arts, painting or gardening. Just a different method to reach the same goal. A little disconnect from the world.

    /Shooter

  72. JP,

    Crosman hasn’t shown any interest in .25 caliber, so I think they won’t produce it. As for custom orders, they have to make the parts before they can add them to guns, and since they don’t rifle .25 caliber barrels, I think that’s out, too.

    Could someone in the aftermarket do it? Certainly. Dennis Quackenbush seems like a likely person because he rifles his own .25 barrels and he’s already converted the 2240 pistol to .25 (with his own proprietary steel receiver). The receiver is the same for the Discovery, so Dennis seems like a good bet.

    There is no such thing as a rebore in the airgun world. While I would stop short of saying it’s never been done, I don’t think it has. Airgun barrels are too thin, plus most airgunsmiths don’t have the deep-hole drilling expertise and equipment needed for that job.

    B.B.

  73. JP,

    Don’t forget Lothar Walther. They make choked or unchoked .25 cal airgun barrels for $101/ea. I bought one of their .22 barrels for my project gun (which is currently stalled on the drawing table and a pile of parts due to lack of time…). Lothar deals through email or snail mail, not an online buy unless they’ve updated their site. Here’s a direct link.

    http://www.lothar-walther.de/html/262.php

    Then all you have to do is find someone to install it for you. Maybe BB or one of the other guys can help with that.

    Hope that helps,
    /Shooter

  74. Hi again BB,

    I have a rather long, post break-in review of my Ihz MP 513M in .22 written. Well, long to post here maybe, you tell me. It’s about a page and a half in MSWord at 12 pt type (NTR). I tested mostly for velocity/ muzzle energy with 12 different kinds of pellets. If you want, I’ll post it here. If not, I’ll make a page for it somewhere when I get the time and just post the link here for anyone who’s interested.

    /Shooter

  79. Shooter, could you post the link? I’d like to compare notes with mine.

    BTW – have you stripped your MP513 down yet? It’s an interesting mechanism… and after I got mine apart, it took me a while to figure out how on earth I was gonna get it all back together again.

  82. This is my first post on any blog. I sure hope this Discovery lives up to it’s potential as I ordered one from PA on Tom’s review of this gun.

    I have arthritis in both hands and shoulders, so the light weight, no recoil and easy pumping will be greatly appreciated.

    I already have a 5 pound CO2 tank to fill my various other CO2 guns and it has a Foster female quick disconnect so I won’t even need an adapter or CO2 paint ball tank!

    This is exactly the gun I have been looking for. With CO2 I can shoot in my basement range at hopefully lower velocities than air and then charge air for hunting.

    WOW! Tom thank you for your recommendations to Crossman. And Crossman, thank you for listening to Tom! I love the idea of finally owning an American made gun which really performs and is great value for the money!

  84. Dear Mr P. I own a Condor with both the supplied tank and the low power tank. I have a .22 xp with a bulk fill tank and a Crosman Shotgun converted to bulk fill. I have 2300psi scuba tank for the Condor and my 3 Brocock 1851 Navies and a 15 lb CO2 bulk tank. I know what I am doing with the Condor and the Brococks but the CO2 has me really confused. The fill adaptor on the Discovery is very different than anything I have had expeience with. My POINT ? I don’t really know what I am doing with CO2 and so am not using any of my bulk fill guns. No local support as I live in Idaho where only real steel is a real gun. Please, any suggestions as to learning about CO2. I have talked my self into a Discovery as a learning tool. If you think that a later version of the Discovery will have trigger and shroud upgrades should I wait? See, there are dumb questions.

  85. What do you want? To learn how to bulk-fill a CO2 gun? Read this:

    /blog/2006/3/working-with-bulk-fill-co2-guns/

    /blog/2006/03/bulk-fill-part-2-2/

    /blog/2006/3/bulk-fill-part-3/

    No the Discovery will not get a shroud, nor will it get a trigger upgrade.

    B.B.

  86. Sorry if I missed this but i scanned the comments and read the 3 part review. I was trying to find the scope mount set of for the discovery.

    I may have overlooked it.

    Also i have a 392, i think it uses the intermount available at Pyramidair. Is that the same for the Discovery?

    thanks

  87. BB and Vince,

    Sorry for the delayed response. I can’t access this blog, or any, from my work computer. Only regular email. Probably a good thing ’cause I’d never get anything done…

    BB, just for the “public record”: Yes it’s fine with me if you post my 513 report.

    Vince, I’d like to see your numbers on your 513 too for my own comparison. I didn’t strip it down yet, but I looked at the diagram that came with it. Looks like an interesting setup. Was it tricky to get back together? I see that they expect you to lose those 2 little balls right away, since they included those in the spare parts kit.

    Thanks again,
    /Shooter

  88. v_dave,

    I didn’t mention a scope mount set for the Discovery because it’s a PCP. Therr are no scope mounting problems with the rifle. It has a 9-inch scope rail and I would definitely use two-piece mounts, since they are by far more flexible. You can use anything you want, as long as it is made for an 11mm or 3/8″ rail.

    B.B.

  90. BB,
    When you get back to the Discovery testing will you consider looking at the new Crossman Discovery Hollow Point pellets (Benjamin-BHP22)?

    At $10.97 for a tin of 500 they are almost twice the price of the Crosman Premier Hollow Point.

  91. DB,

    Holy cow, you’re right! I though the mixup must be due to a different pellet count of something, but they really are twice the price. But only AFTER they are dumped into the tin. Because they are all the same before that!

    I think the thing to do is quietly stock up on several tins of the .22 Crosman hollowpoints. They are a deal!

    B.B.

  93. Hello owners of the 513.
    A friend of mine bought a 513 recently and it makes a dreadful racket when it’s cocked – something like a grating spring or engauging rachets! is that normal for this rifle?
    Ton

  94. BB,

    When Robert asked you A question at 10:19am, you answered “Crosman will probably shroud their next PCP. It will be an upgraded rifle that probably will have an adjustable trigger. I pushed for a choked barrel, as well. We’ll see”.

    Later you answered Anonymous, “No the Discovery will not get a shroud, nor will it get a trigger upgrade”. Is this the last word? As many country shooters that are out there, there are the same or probably more of us city shooters that absolutely must have A shroud. IMHO, if that is the way that Crosman is going, they are missing A large group of the shooting public.

    BobC NJ

  95. BobC,

    Yes, that is the last word. The Discovery is fully developed and, except for subtle improvements over the years, it is what it is.

    My reference to a shrouded PCP from Crosman was that their NEXT model will probably be shrouded. In fact, I’m certain it will be. Don’t ask when it will be out because I don’t know. All I know is they are working on it now.

    As for “:… more of us city shooters that absolutely must have A shroud”, that isn’t so certain. Many city shooters, me being one of them, don’t shoot their powerful guns at home, so a shroud or a quiet gun isn’t that necessary. When we want to shoot powerful airguns we go to a range or to the country to plink and hunt. However, there is enough interest that Crosman is incorporating one into the next design.

    B.B.

  96. Ton, yes it is. It has a ratchet that prevents the barrel from returning to the “closed” position while cocking the gun, until the gun is fully cocked and the sear engaged.

  97. BB,

    Thank you for your prompt and to the point answer. It seems that Crosman didn’t take that long to come out with the Benjamin Discovery(?), so, I’ll shoot what I have and wait on them. If in the future you hear A tidbit about it, A hint to all of us would be appreciated.

    I’m shipping the book by Pat Sweeney I told you about, and you should get it in A few days.

    BobC NJ

  98. BobC,

    I know they want to bring it out soon this year), but I also know there will be development holdups. I don’t want to start an unfounded rumor about a gun people may not see for some time.

    I’m leaving for the SHOT Show next Monday, so maybe you’d better hold that shipment up a few weeks?

    B.B.

  101. BB,

    Thanks for that little tidbit. You ARE “Da Man”.

    Because the blog was down, I didn’t see your post until that evening, after I had sent the book off. I sent it in care of Pyramyd AIR. Enjoy. Have A great time at the Shot Show.

    BobC NJ

  103. B.B.,

    Tremendous set of posts, many thanks. Would you be able to post any more pics of the rifle? In particular I am interested in the bolt and breech, as this would seal the deal for me with this rifle.

    Best Wishes

    Dan

  104. B.B.
    I own a Air force Condor and have been experiencing POI shifts that I can’t solve. I’ve tried everything and have sent my rifle back to AF for them to inspect.
    I came across your comments on the TalonSS and adjusting the tophat for optimal air release when shooting.
    The video you made for the Condor doesn’t mention how to adjust the top hat.
    Could this be the cause of my POI shifts?
    Could you elaborate how to do this adjustment for the Condor?
    Thanks for any suggestions.

    Hegshen

  105. Hegshen,

    Don’t adjust the top hat on a CONDOR! They are adjusted at the factory and shouldn’t be touched. The valve is completely different and adjusting the top hat can ruin it.

    What you have sounds like a scope issue. Are you adjusted up close to the vertical limit? That can cause scope shift.

    In your reply, please tell me the type of scope, mounts and how high the elevation is adjusted.

    B.B.

  106. B.B.

    I have done just about everything to try and solve the problem and have been usucessful:

    1. Replaced the AF ring mounts w/ the suggested B-squre mount.
    2. Replaced the BSA scope w/ a Barska sniper scope
    3. Centered the scope according to the leupold website.
    4. Sent the tank back to AF for the the upgraded valve system
    5. Bought and used a laser bore sighter for the macroadjustments on the B-squre mount (used your blog on the b-squre mount for my guide).
    6. Shoot using a 3-point gun rest
    7. Ensured all allen screws on the b-square mount and gun were snug.
    8. Fill the gun to 27-2800 psi.

    It seems that the gun will shoot okay for the first 3-5 shots, then it will begin to drift to the left at 35 yards.
    Below 35 yards the gun shoots slightly to the right.

    The only thing I can think of is that the friction from the Kodiak pellets is enough to heat up the barrel and cause the POI to shift.
    Or, perhpas the valve system is not working properly.

    I realize there is human error involved in shooting and I am factoring that into my expectations, however the POI shifts that I am experiencing are not due to me shooting ability ( or lack thereof).

    I am frustrated b/c I can’t rely on the gun to stay sighted in and pretty much spend every shooting session making sure that it is sighted in from the time before.

    I’ve sent the gun back to AF and hopefully they can solve the problem, but if not, do you have any other suggestions?

    Thanks,
    hegshen

  107. hegshen ,

    I’m on the road going to the SHOT Show, but I think I know what your problem is. Your scope isn’t aligned with your barrel. The key is it shoots to one side at one distance and the other side at a greater distance.

    I have written about this phenomenon many times. It took me a long time to discover what it is.

    Read this and we’ll talk more.

    /blog/2005/3/what-causes-scope-shift/

    B.B.

  108. B.B.,
    I’ve read your article on POI shift and that is why I changed to the b-square mount from the AF ring mounts.
    I optically centered my scope using leupolod’s directions (small mirror placed in front of the scope), not your method.
    Is the leupold method as effective, or do I need to center it manually like you did?

    After that I used the laser bore sighter and made adustments w/ the b-square to get the cross hairs as close the laser spot before adusting the scope.

    I was still having POI problems and that’s why I sent the gun back.
    I’m baffled.

    Hope the shot show is great. Look forward to hearing about it.

    hegshen

  110. I saw you mentioned this rifle in .177 would make a good starting field target rifle. Would dropping the power to 12 ft lbs be as easy as just changing out the valve? I’m curious as to how hard that would be. I believe the 850 Air Magnum had 1 or 2 different valves available if you looked around for them. One was for the German market’s set limit and of course the full power one for the American market.

    Can’t wait to see the shrouded version of the Discovery. Some way of adjusting the power would be nice too.

  113. B.B.,
    You mentioned that you would elaborate on my accuracy difficulties with my AF condor. AF still has my rifle, but I expect it back this week.
    Any further thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    hegshen

  116. hegshen,

    Okay, I’m ready to discuss this. First of all I need to know the amount of drift you are experiencing. At 35 yards if you have a 2-inch drift, that’s significant. But if it’s just 1/2″, that’s down in the noise and could be anything from you to the pellets to the wind.

    So how much are you drifting?

    Also, what pellets are you shooting?

    I don’t know anything about the Barska brand of scopes, so I cannot comment on the possibility for parallax error.

    The fact that your rifle shoots slightly to the right under 35 yards is proof you have not centered the reticle optically. A left-right shift at different ranges is proof the reticle is out of alignment with the axis if the bore.

    If you shoot with any wind at all you may be experiencing precession, which is why I need to know the amount of shift. At 35 yards using JSB Exact domes you should be able to shoot groups of about 0.30″: with ease unless the wind is blowing. If it is, your groups can open to one inch with every five mph increase you experience. So pausing for perfect zero wind conditions is crucial.

    Get back to me and we will explore this further.

    B.B.

  117. B.B,
    I’m shooting Beeman Kodiaks. Typcially my drift is about 1-1.5 inches.
    I should be recieving my gun back from AF this week.
    I will try the labor intesive method you recommend to optically center my scope.
    Question: Does optically centering the scope matter, if I’m using an adjustable B-squre mount w/ a laser bore sighter?

    Hegshen

  118. Hegswhen,

    Okay, Kodiaks are good, but they are not the most accurate pellets in a Condor. The very best are JSB Exact domes, followed closely by Crosman Premiers. Both are shot on power level 4. At 35 yards, a great 5-shot group would be 0.30″, so a good 10-shot would be 0.70″ and a good 20-shot might be one inch. That would also be true of a good .22 rimfire target rifle.

    A bore-sighter is completely unnecessary. Follow the sight-in procedure I outline in the following article:

    /article/All_about_scopes_Part_3_April_2005/22

    However, the scope alignment procedure is unnecessary for most shooting. I don’t do it anymore, because it is so labor-intensive, as you point out.

    You don’t mention what you are trying to achieve, but I have my Condor sighted in for 20-30 yards and I can hit anything I want out to 50 yards. By “hit” I don’t mean that I can hit my aim point every time. Nobody can do that, other than a field target shooter with a rifle that has been completely “dialed in.” I used to have a rifle set up that way, and optical centering was part of the dialing-in process, but I no longer need to hit the exact spot I aim at. I can still take small game out to 50 yards with my Condor, which is all I ask of the rifle.

    A Condor is not the rifle to dial in anyway. It’s way too lightweight, and too powerful. If you want a rifle to dial in, the weight needs to be at least 11 lbs, and most FT shooters’ guns weigh more than that.

    B.B.

  120. hegshen,

    Not only do you NOT need to optically center your scope, I tested your rifle today and it shoots fine.

    I go to the AirForce plant from time to time to do my own testing for blogs, and they happened to show me your rifle (there were only two in for repairs, so it was pretty easy to determine which was yours). So I went over today and tested it quite thoroughly. Believe me, it shoots fine.

    In fact, I documented everything I did and I will blog the whole ordeal, because I think there are plenty of other shooters who are having [problems similar to your who might like to learn how to properly test their rifles.

    I signed and noted the test target which AirForce will return to you with the rifle. But you will see the same target in the blog before your rifle arrives.

    B.B.

  121. B.B.,

    Thank you for the personal attention!!
    I look forward to reading about what you did and I will retry setting up my rifle as you explain on the blog.
    Should I not go back to the two-piece AF rings or should I stick w/ the B-Square mount?

    Thanks again,

    hegshen

  122. Hegshen,

    I think you can save that B-Square mount for a problem gun. You will see that I used one when I tested your rifle but don’t read anything into that. I simply popped it off my own Condor because it was already set up. It was just quicker that way. You’ll even see that the B-Square mount I used is a prototype. The risers are not blued.

    B.B.

  125. BB or anyone,
    Still waiting for my Discovery 22 to ship and noticed the degaser tool listed as a ship loose item.

    I do not intend to use CO2. Will I need one anyway?

    I thought the tool was included. Should I add one to my order?

    Thanks,
    DB

  126. All,
    Never mind about the degasser tool. The answer is in the blog… more or less.

    It might be handy but is not required. One can dry fire the presure out if required.

    Sorry for not reading first.

    DB

  128. BB,
    The first shipment of Discovery 22 didn’t include enough to fill all the order. So I’m waiting for the 3-21-08 shipment.

    While I’m waiting I have time to ask a question. Should I consider using a pellet other than the CP? Thinking of lead fowling issues.

    Basically same question (and I’ll take input from anyone). Have you found a best pellet? Hopefully you’ve found the time to shoot some more with it since you finished the blog.

    Thanks,
    DB

  131. B.B.,
    Thank you… I’ll see if PA will add some JSB Exact to the order. Can you recommend a specific JSP Exact… there are several choices.

    Just for clarity is lead fouling going to be an issue in the Discovery 22? Is it powerful enough to cause lead fouling?

    Thanks,
    DB

  133. B.B.,

    Wanted to know your thoughts on the BSA lonestar compared to the Evanix AR6 for hunting.
    I am considering between the two of them.
    I realize pyramyd doesn’t sell BSA products anymore (don’t know why?)and I’ve found it difficult to get expert information about the BSA lonestar.
    Thanks,
    hegshen

  135. hegshen,

    Pyramyd AIR no longer carries BSA airguns because the supply is too erratic. The smaller airgun dealers can get them because they don’t sell a lot of guns, but Pyramyd AIR found that BSA could not supply the quantities they needed.

    Although I haven’t tested the BSA Lonestar (I’ve never even heard of it), BSA has a well-deserved reputation for barrel-making. They really know their stuff! So I would think the BSA will be as accurate or more accurate than the AR-6.

    On the other hand, BSA guns typically fill to 230 bar, which you have to set up for. That means a carbon fiber tank or a Hill or AirForce hand pump.

    B.B.

  136. PA has still not been able to ship a discovery to me. New promise date is 4-18. Sales people at Crosman must be going nuts with all the orders.

    From Crosman’s perspective it is a nice problem to have. From my perspective it is not so nice. But… I can wait another couple weeks.

  137. B.B.,
    Will you do a followup blog on the Benji Discovery? Would very much like to see how the after market power regulator works. Trigger mod would be a bonus… but I think there is enough out there already on the trigger mod.

    Thanks,
    DB

  138. DB,

    Actually, Crosman is talking about sending me a new rifle to keep. My prototype .22 is pretty far from what’s being sold now. And Crosman tells me they have now upgraded the trigger to what the aftermarket mods are doing.

    The power adjust is something I’d like to check out.

    So, yes, sometime this summer.

    B.B.

  139. B.B.,
    So do you think when my Disco ships on 4/18 (maybe) it will already have the modified trigger?

    If not I might ask PA to hold of shipping for a bit. Would actually feel better with a factory fix.

    Would still like to see something on the power regulator mods. It would be nice to dial it down for backyard plinking.

    Thank you,
    DB
    DB

  142. Good news and bad news on my Disco that was order Feb. 23rd.

    Bad news is PA pushed my ship date again new ship date is May 2nd. Making it about 2-1/2 months late… assuming it ships then.

    Good news is maybe a delayed shipment will net me one with the upgraded trigger. Sure hope so.

  145. Reading an article in Predator Xtreme about the Discovery led me here. I’m intriuged by this gun because I have a lot of paintball equipment. CO2 tanks are handy and I could probably get a regulator for one of my tanks to do the 2000psi output needed to charge. The bonus is my tanks will hold 4500psi so I should get quite a few charges from one. They posted some specs on the volume of air that I haven’t seen listed anywhere else so I’ll quote them here: “The Discovery stores air in a reservoir made of carbon-steel DOM tubing, with a fill capacity of 135 cc (8.3 cubic inch).”
    Nice blog, waiting for them to be readily available.

    peace.
    unloaded

  146. Disco in 22cal with hand pump finally shipped on 5-19 – after a 90-day backorder delay. Didn’t pay for premium shipping; but I was holding the gun in my hands early Wednesday morning. PA gave me a little bonus I guess.

    So far everything good and bad stated here and in other blogs seems to ring true. My take on it so far is that it is a great low cost PCP. Didn’t expect a perfect gun and didn’t get one. But it does perform exactly as advertised… so far.

    Accuracy out of the box was just OK. It got better with each shot and will no doubt continue to improve.

    Iron sights have a great sight picture and the adjustments are crude but functional – as was expected. Looks like upgrading would be very easy.

    Included hand pump is very nice. Had a rough sound for the first 50 strokes then smoothed out nicely. Filling the gun is a breeze not difficult at all. A ten year old girl could do it easy.

    Shots are loud even after air pressure is very low. Have only tested out to 25 yards and found the groups to hold close across the pressure spread.

    Stock is a bit short and awkward for me. It has about the same dimensions and lines as a youth 22-cal single shot. After a few shots you adjust to it and forget that it was not a natural hold.

    Trigger seemed harsh but tolerable. Some creep but with a crisp break. Hopefully will break in or get upgraded.

    Only cause for pause was the gun rattled very loudly before the first fill. This stopped after the fill. Guess it was a check valve bouncing. Gun still rattles a little when shaken; but not as much as a Mossberg 500 pump shotgun.

    Did not like the way the factory drilled out for the pressure gauge. The hole was drilled all the way though and it left a small divot on both sides of the air tube. This is not really a functionality issue… just detracts from the aesthetics of the stock quite a bit. The divot could also be a real dirt catcher.

    Just my initial thoughts on it,
    DB

  148. BB,
    Yes I have a very nice 1.5-6×44 Leapers scope in the box waiting. Just having some fun with the open sights and I think I’ll do all the trigger & power mod before mounting the scope.

    The sight picture with the Disco iron sights seems very nice to me. But yes I know a scope really helps.

    I can not shoot ten shot 10-yard groups within a 1/2″ circle with my scoped 1377. Considering it is a $50 gun I’m very happy with it.

    And I’ve been using a zero power red dot on my shotgun for over 15-years. Still using my original Tasco Red Dot. Got a lot of funny looks when I used it for skeet. But it really works well once you get used the concept and trust it.

    Fun stuff,
    DB

  149. Hi folks,

    I have had two discoveries in .22 cal. since late march…I love them.. I am setting up “Ashland Air Rifle Range and Rentals” in Southern Oregon..so I have been testing what to buy for inventory..

    Two things..1) no auto safety..the other night Randy and I were shooting in the pool room indoor range.. Randy’s daughter came in and was talking.. she left and moments later..Randy put a pellet in the ceiling, where his daughter was just standing.. it was too easy to pull the trigger as he was closing the breech. (un-knowingly using the trigger for leverage).. be careful, this is for seasoned and aware airgunners only.
    2) the barrel is flimsy.. one can wiggle it back and forth.. I superglued mine to the air tank… take off the fill cap first and use just enough to lock to air tank..it really needs two barrel clamps instead of one. After wards it has been really accurate..
    I don’t know what all the stuff about the trigger is about..it is great for me very light (about 2 lbs or so)very little creep and crisp..very good compared to the 20 or so other air rifles I have tried.

    Forget the pump guys, you don’t want to put “wet” air in the gun. If you go with the scuba tanks they fill them with clean dry air for $5.00.. they can fill them up to 3,500lbs if they do it slowly from a warm room…then you get about 2,000 shots before it gets down to 1,900lbs..I got two tanks for $150 each at the local scuba store…just don’t overfill..it is nice when the tank gets down to 2,300, then you can just open and let the tank and gun equalize, without worry about overfilling.

    Hope this helps..
    Wayne

  150. Wayne,

    I have to caution others to not superglue the barrel to the reservoir.

    The reservoir moves as air is exhausted and if the barrel is attached, it will walk as the pressure changes.

    Also, the pump dries the air before it goes into the gun. As long as you bleed it with the bleed screw to purge the pump base, the gun should remain dry inside.

    B.B.

  151. Thanks BB;

    Had not thought of the reservoir moving, but mine is way more accurate than before, maybe there is enough flex in the glue to add strength, but still, flex with the reservoir…the real fix is an extra barrel band, don’t you think. Can we get them from Pyramyd or crossman?

    Any way is way easier with the scuba tanks, 10 seconds to hook up, fill, bleed fill tube, and disconnect and your shooting.

    thanks,

    Wayne

  152. Wayne,

    If it’s more accurate then no harm done. That was my only concern.

    The barrel band was a topic of discussion as we developed the rifle. I didn’t want one at all – for a free-floated barrel. But the band won out in the end.

    B.B.

  153. BB..

    Now I’m getting it..”a free-floated barrel”…maybe on the next one it could be stronger so I can’t wiggle it back and forth with one finger…it “floats” for sure. I know more money, weight, etc..
    Well at least I had not gotten around to gluing the other discovery yet..I will watch for I guess a little pulling down of the barrel as the pressure in the tank goes down…come to think of it..I do notice pellets shooting lower as the pressure goes below 1,500 but I thought it was because of low pressure not the tank pulling the barrel down… I wonder if I can test the other gun against the glued gun…I will let you know..

    Thanks again
    Wayne

  154. Hi BB,
    I understand the Benjamin Discovery is based on the 2260. Are any of the parts interchange (or close) between the Benjamin Discovery and the 22xx series? The Discovery air tube is the part that interests me the most. Thank you.

  155. NiTr0_FiSh,

    When we created the Discovery, the air tube had to be a new design because Crosman makes no other PCP. CO2 tanks do not have to be rated to the same pressure level. So that part is unique.

    We used the steel breech with the long scope rail that you can buy from the Custom Shop. And the actions and barrels are identical.

    B.B.

  156. OK BB,
    That makes sense to use the modular approach & design those new parts that were required. I was considering attempting to swap a Discovery air tube onto my repeater breach, bulk fill 2250B – but that does not sound like it will fit.
    Thanks again.

  157. I am new to PCPs, I have only used spring and CO2 guns. Anyways, I want to know if this PCP rifle can be safely charged from an electric air compressor because I already have one and looking to do year round outdoor shooting. Also, how does the maintenance differ from a spring gun? Reading all the reviews and seeing the videos about the Benjamin Discovery has left me in amazement for its price and performance. I am considering getting it it a .22 caliber. Thanks!

  158. Makun,

    If your electric compressor will output 2,000 psi air, then, yes, it will work. Most compressors top out around 135-175 psi. There is a booster you can buy, but I think they cost $800-1,000.

    There is little to no maintenance on a PCP. You don’t clean the barrel (just like the springer) and there isn’t anything to lubricate. Just follow the owner’s manual and the gun is relatively carefree.

    The one maintenance tip I can give is to always leave the gun filled with air. A full charge is fine for long-term storage.

    B.B.

  159. B.B.,

    I don’t currently own a discovery yet, but have given some thought to getting one. I have a hammerli 850 right now, so I don’t know if I’m willing to go back to a single shot after having a repeater for so long. I see that you were mentioning that crossmans next pcp might have a shrouded barrel. I was wondering if you would have any information if it will be a repeater or not, seeing by the looks of things you have quite a bit of influence over these types of things. Also wondering if you would have any idea when this next pcp will be put into production and available to the public? ( just weighing out my options for my next gun) any information would be appreciated.

    Austin

  161. Greetings b b
    I have a very random question, but it’s pertaining about the benjy disco. and that is, when i will take this gun on an airplane, will the air-gonomics of the gas onboard the cargo airplane affect the gun and the resivor? Or would it be fine and nothing would happen to the gun?
    And also, is the PCP’s better than the multi pump pneumatics? specifically about the pumping, would a multi pump be preferable or a pcp’s for LONG HUNTING, well, not really hunting big size huskies, but like coons and medium size rascalz. Thanks!
    Oh Yeah! almost 4got, but is it really true that the benjy disco might come in a repeater???if so, please keep me informed, like the pricing, if it would be 6 shot rep., revolver or side lever action or etc., and other tech specs. Thanks, again!

  162. Don’t worry about what the air in the gun does in an airplane because the airlines won’t permit you to carry the gun filled.

    There will not be a repeating Discovery, but Crosman is working on a different PCP design that I think will be a repeater.

    PCP{s are more powerful than all multi-pumps and more accurate than most. So I guess PCPs are “better.”

    B.B.

  170. BB,
    Finally gave up on making my Discovery shoot straight. Worked at if for a few months and hundreds of shots. Took your advice and sent it back to Crosman. They promptly replaced it. New gun is a mixed bag.

    Stock looks very bad – bad piece of wood. The one returned had a beautiful stock very nice wood. Not a good finish… just good wood. Stock had about a ¼ of play out of the box. Simple fix with a screw driver and it is now nice and tight. But no amount of refinishing will make this piece of wood look nice.

    Steel had a few scratches – but no rust. Returned gun had no scratches.

    Manometer is mounted upside down – faces the wrong direction. Not a big deal at all it is just as easy to read upside down and the readings match the readings on the pump. So it seems to be working OK.

    Trigger feels exactly the same… has some creep.

    That was the bad. Good is this one shoots straight. Have only used CP hollow points so far and only out to 20 yards with iron sights; but it does seem to shoot OK.

    Will be mounting a scope this weekend and reach out to 30 yards or so and see what she does with some JSB pellets.

    DB

  172. Herb,

    I haven’t tested it, but the Discovery is based on a 2260 rifle, so I expect the .22 to go 600 f.p.s. and the .177 to be in the high 600s/low 700s.

    It will not be quieter than a quiet springer, but about as loud as a GOOD magnum like an R1. Hope that helps.

    B.B.

  173. B.B.,

    Seems you were right on numbers.

    Paul Capello reported Chrony numbers

    /airgun-video?video=agr-episode-5.flv

    14.3 grain Crosman Premier
    602fps CO2 / 803fps air

    18.2 grain Crow Magnum
    553fps CO2 / 803fps air

    He didn’t report sound levels and from video clip it’s hard to tell. But it doesn’t sound tremendously quieter with CO2 trying to judge from relative noise of bolt action.

    Herb

  174. If I wanted to shoot the discovery in cold weather at a lower velocity (for noise reasons) could I fill it with air at a lower pressure; around what it would be with CO2?

  177. Yes, it would be similar. The velocity would be a touch higher because air flows faster, but nothing drastic. And I would guess the noise would be reduced from CO2 just a bit.

    However, you would only get a handful of shots — all at decreasing velocity, because you are off the power curve of the valve.

    However, give it a try and see what happens.

    B.B.

  180. Anonymous (loudness),

    I don’t have a Discovery, but I have a pistol (14.6″ barrel) that is powered by the same plant as the Discovery. One friend said it sounded about the same as a .22 short. Another friend said it wasn’t as loud. Either way, since the Discovery has a longer 24.25″ barrel, I would say it would not be as loud as a .22 short.

    .22 multi-shot

  181. Could you fill the benjamin with a different pump. I have been looking to buy the benjamin by itself (without the pump)because i think the pump is too expensive. Please list any pumps that could fill the benjamin you know and any adapters it might need. Thank you.

  182. Anonymous with the Benjamin pump question,

    The short answer to your question is, Yes, you can fill the Benjamin Discovery with any high pressure pump (rated to at least 2000 psi). But you can’t beat the package deal price that includes the pump and gun vs. buying them separately. Keep in mind that the pump that comes in the package is a re-badged air force pump. Top notch pump!

    The exception to this is if you find a used high pressure pump at a very good price. The problem with buying a used pump at a very good price is that you don’t know if the pump has been abused. You can ruin a high pressure pump very quickly by wiping the grease off (idiots trying to clean up their pumps), not bleeding it correctly, overheating during pumping, etc.

    B.B. has done several articles on using a pump and also has a video on the pyramyd air web site showing the slow deliberate strokes, pausing on the up and down strokes and letting the pump cool during use. Use the search feature on the right to find this information.

  184. I am extremely busy for the next several months, but if you will keep reminding me I will test the Discovery on CO2 for you.

    You know, others have already tested it and reported on it many times on the Crosman Forum and elsewhere. Are you aware of that?

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/581291/

    You may have to ask them, because almost everyone runs the Discovery on air, but they have tested it on CO2, as well.

    B.B.

  185. Does anyone know of a decent rifle case which can hold a scoped Discovery and Pump? Sure would be nice to have them nicely packaged like that. Cheers all.

  186. Bristolview,

    I don't have a rifle case to recommend, but I'd be interested in hearing if you find one. I think it might be hard to find a case that will accommodate the foot of the pump.

    Edith (Mrs. B.B.)

  187. Bristolview,

    One option is to purchase a two gun hard sided case (some manufacturers call this a scoped gun case). The scoped Discovery and pump will fit in the case but you will have to remove the foot of the base on the pump in order to close the case.

    kevin

  188. While I continue to look for a case to tweak for the pump, a compromise would be to carry an extra tank. Crosman makes a nice one with a large capacity (6-8 refills), but it's really really large. A smaller, more portable version that can be carried in my case for an afternoon of plinking would be nice, perhaps 2-3 refills, that's still quite a bit of shooting. Anyone know of a portable tank like that? I know there are plenty of CO2 tanks for paintball guns, but they generally cannot handle the higher PSI of a PSP rifle.

  189. Kevin,

    Thanks for the idea. I found a 2 rifle case, but I can keep the base on the pump. I took a drill and made a slit for the base to go though the outside of the case. Another slit allows the other side of the base to go a little way into the rifle area. This lets the pump stay completely intact, even the hose can stay on. It's a Plano 2 rifle case.

  191. Dear B.B.

    The discovery so far is a good entry lvl for pcp shooting. But sins a long time i dont have an airgun. So i whas hoping if this airgun could hold up in a field target competition.
    Meaning, is this gun still accurate at 55 yards whitin an inch on a bench test at either .177 and .22 bore ?

    Hope to hear from you.

    Greets

    JD

  192. My Appologies,

    I must have miss read this some how but i'll do a quote of part two

    " Under ideal conditions, the Discovery is fully capable of half-inch groups at 50 yards. Now and again, it does better "

    Anyhow still thanks for reviewing this airrifle

    JD

  193. Dear Experts on Benjamin Sheridan Discovery!

    I m hungarian man, and i would like to change my Diana 350 magnum to a Discovery. Unfortunatelly in my Country the guns are weakened to 7,5 joule. A havent ever had pcp gun, and i ont know wich way has been used to decrease the Discoverys pellets velocity. But i think they make something with the regulator… What do You think, how i can set the original strong of the Gun? Wich component is likely to deteriorate bytime in Discovery? I woul appreciate if You answered me. Thank, Miki

  194. Miki,

    I'm pretty sure that the Discovery you will buy does not have a regulator in it. The power reduction will have been made by changing the parts of the valve.

    It may be very difficult to make a low-powered Discovery more powerful, because Crosman (the maker) has to ensure it cannot be done easily. Otherwise, the various countries will not allow it to be imported.

    Are you even able to buy a Discovery in Hungary?

    B.B.

  195. Dear BB Pelletier! Tehere is one of the companies wich sells Discovery, called Nimrod Derringer. I have to admit, that i am going to change the Discovery to a strenghter one. But i dont know about the way. Thanks for the information about the valve. Can i buy it by post from Your Country? I want to hunt rabbits. I m a hunter, i have a certain own territory. I really need a gun , that optic-friend. Your gun seems to be an excellent gun , not distroying optics, like te Diana does. I have broken down 4 ones by setting. so, finelly, You think, that i need to change the valve if I want to make it stronger? Thanks , Miki.

  198. Szanto,

    The Benjamin Discovery is a good hunting gun. I hope you can buy it with a hand pump, because filling it may be difficult in Hungary. You will need a scuba tank if you don't buy the hand pump.

    It will also work with CO2, but that is only good in warm weather, and hunting takes place when it is cold. So you want to run on air, not CO2.

    The velocity of the gun you can buy is too slow for hunting. Changing the valve is not easy. You have to know a lot about pneumatic design.

    I would not buy the Discovery for hunting.

    B.B.

  199. Dear B.B. Pelletier! Thanks for the information! I hope, i can buy a new valve to this gun. And also hope, that in the shop they will explain how to change the valve to the new one. Unfortunatelly in Hungary every gun have been loww-powered to 7,5, wich isnt enough for everything apart from to use it in the garden, or in case of having high quality-gun to the competitions. In Hungary You can buy original coponetnts for the low powered guns in the same shops. Here are hardly any people how wouldnt change them after buying. When i bought my Diana, i tried it (in less stronger state), and it wasnt able to shot out the 5,5 Baracuda pellet! It was said to be 7,5 J!! I wasnt able to use it, so i had to change the components. This is a "stupid " (exc me) rule in our country. At the first part Your comment You said :it is a good hunting gun. And at the end of it You said: You wuldnt buy it for hunting. Why? Thanks for Your answer! Miki

  200. Miki,

    The Discovery is a good hunting airgun as it is sold here in the U.S. In 7,5 joules it is not a good hunting gun. That is what I meant.

    You will not be able to buy a different valve for your gun, if that is what you meant. You may be able to buy a replacement valve that will then have to be altered to give you more power.

    B.B.

  201. Dear B.B.Pelletier!

    Can i ordere original valve from Your Country? If it comes to buying , could i ask You to help me? And do You have pneumatic design in writing?
    Thanks a lot.Miki

  202. Miki,

    I don't know whether Crosman will ship a valve to Hungary. I doubt it, because of the laws of your country. You should buy your parts in Hungary.

    As for pneumatic design, there is no book. You need to experiment with pneumatic designs until you understand the relationships between the various components of the valve and firing mechanism. It takes years of study and is not done with a kit.

    I think you are making a mistake to buy the Discovery, because it will be too difficult for you to make the modifications needed. And if you succeed, you will have broken the laws of your country.

    B.B.

  203. Dear B.B !

    If it comes to buying Dscovery, could i ask you to help me to purchase original valve from Your Country? And do You have any pneumatic design in writing?

    Thanks, Miki

  205. Dear B. B.,

    Finally a have gone without buying Discovery, i feared, that i wouldnt be able to change the valve. I have bought a HW98. Thanks for Your comments!

    Miki

  207. Discovery tip:

    There is an O-ring inside the cap that covers the fitting at the front of the Discovery's air reservoir. It's purpose is to engage with the grooves cut into the fitting's body so as to hold the cap in place. After finding small bits of O-ring on the fitting and inside the cap, I removed the O-ring, cleaned things up and used a dot of RTV to attach a small strong magnet to the outside of the cap. Another fix is to use an O-ring with different dimensions. Most well stocked hardware stores will have what is needed. Try a 3/4 X 5/8 X 3/64 O-ring. (The original is a 3/4 X 5/8 X 1/16) The smaller cross section still secures the cap in place with a bit less tension. Don't forget to LIGHTLY wipe the O-ring with your favorite O-ring lube. Gosh, does anybody know what B.B. uses?

  210. Although, I've had no trouble with my disco and pump, I do sometimes see people wondering what to do if they encounter a problem with their Benjamin Hand Pump. I couldn't find the info listed here through the search, so I seached the yellow forum where I have seen this info before. Actually, this info from several reputable bloggers.

    Benjamin Hand Pump Repair:

    Sun Optics USA is working with Crosman to repair and rebuild their pumps. If your pump is out of warranty they will rebuild and test for you for a cost of $25.00 which includes all parts labor and shipping back to you. If it is in warranty contact Crosman first for verification and then send to us. If in warranty there will be no charge to you.

    Sun Optics USA
    2901 Suffolk Dr
    Suite 130
    Fort Worth, TX 76133

    817-350-4957

    Popular Contact Representative: Duane Sorensen

    Price listed for repair is most likely for CONUSA Shipping and subject to change.

    -AJ

  211. In my area compressed nitrogen is easier to get than compressed air – since air is 78% nitrogen, will nitrogen work in a PCP rifle? Specifically I'm thinking of the Discovery.

  215. BB,

    I heard that cleaning new guns was a good idea. However if you say it's not needed, I'll take your word for it because I learned pretty much everything I need to know from your blogs.

    And regarding cleaning it through the front, I thought you shouldn't do that?

  216. Tornado,

    Yes, you should clean from the breech whenever possible to avoid damaging the muzzle, but the design of the Discovery requires you to disassemble the bolt to clean from the breech. So in cases like that we have to make exceptions. Clean from the muzzle and be extremely careful.

    B.B.

  217. B.B., hope you are still reading comments from this blog but whatever happened to the CO2 report for the Benjamin Discovery. Did it ever happen. If it did, I can't seem to find it.

  219. Hi B.B.,

    I have never owned or shot a pcp rifle, and I am thinking about starting to get into PCP rifles with the Benjamin Discovery. I noticed that the Discovery comes with a pump…does this mean I will never have to buy a CO2 tank or a scuba tank to fill it up? I'm sure you probably said something about this, but I just want to make sure!

    thanks for your help!
    Eric

  221. 15 year-old,

    Although this is an airgun website, most of us are also firearms shooters. I love the Ruger 10-22, but not the way it came from the factory. I spent $150 getting my gun accurized and getting the trigger tuned before it was a fun gun. And even then, it will not shoot as small a group at 50 yards as a Discovery.

    However, if you can find a 10-22 for sale, get one. The gun grabbers are looking to take them off the market, and I would hate to see you miss out on a classic firearm.

    B.B.

  222. BB,
    Below is a chart of the muzzle velocity from my Benjamin Discovery rifle, starting with an air pressure of 2000 psi at shot #1 and going thru shot #29. At shot #17 the pressure gauge was at 1000 psi. At shot #29 the air pressure gauge was in the middle of the red area. I thought the muzzle velocities should be close for 15 or 20 shots, not steadily decreasng as the air pressure goes down. What do you think?

    Benjamin Discovery
    Model BP1K77 .177 cal.
    SN 414120049
    JSB RS 7.33 gr pellets
    Shot# FPS
    1 1032 Gauge=2000 psi
    2 1024
    3 1020
    4 1014
    5 1010
    6 996
    7 989
    8 977
    9 977
    10 964
    11 952
    12 934
    13 927
    14 913
    15 902
    16 884
    17 868 Gauge=1000 psi
    18 853
    19 834
    20 814
    21 790
    22 758
    23 734
    24 700
    25 653
    26 611
    27 659
    28 512
    29 435

    • Earl,

      I saw this same result when I tested the first Discovery prototype. It means the hammer spring is a little too strong for your individual action. If you want a flatter curve that spring has to be weakened a little.

      But what kind of groups do you get at 50 yards. That same prototype put five pellets into a half-inch, which I thought was very good.

      B.B.

      • How do I weaken the spring?
        The guns velocity starts at 1032 fps.
        I would be very happy if it started at 900 or 950 fps if the velocity would stay consistent for 20 or more shots.

        • Earl,

          If you are asking that question then you should have someone else do the work, or you should buy a kit. I would check this guy, who did a wonderful job with my Discovery in the Disco Double.

          Lloyd Sikes can adjust your Disco to a gnat’s eyelash.

          B.B.

  223. BB,
    The best 10 shot groups are about 1/2 inch at 18 yards.
    My inside range is 18 yards.
    I live in Lexington, KY so I can only shoot inside my home.
    When the weather gets better, I will go to the range and shoot at 50 yards.
    I estimate the 50 yard groups will be 1.0 to 1.5 inches.

  224. What parts should I buy to fill the Discovery with CO2?
    I only have the Discovery and the air pump now.
    I assume the velocity with CO2 will be similar to the velocity when the air pressure is about 900 psi.
    Is that correct?
    How many shots would I get per CO2 fill?

  225. My Benjamin Discovery has a “sweet spot” between 2500 and 1600 psi.
    What do you think about these pressures and velocities?
    Note: I think the pump gauge is correct and the gun gauge is reading 400 psi too high.

    Benjamin Discovery
    Model BP1K77 .177 cal.
    JSB RS 7.33 gr pellets
    Shot FPS
    1 1006 —pump=2500 psi
    2 1012 gun gauge is in white 3mm
    3 1011
    4 1010
    5 1015
    6 1015
    7 1015
    8 1022
    9 1030
    10 1021
    11 1022
    12 1031
    13 1029
    14 1029
    15 1026
    16 1032
    17 1026
    18 1025
    19 1021
    20 1018
    21 1013
    22 1013
    23 1004
    24 995 —gun=2000
    25 986 pump=1600?
    26 978
    27 969
    28 962
    29 947
    30 939
    31 927
    32 918
    33 898
    34 885
    35 872
    36 833
    37 822
    38 811
    39 791 —gun=1000
    40 762

  226. The “sweet spot” on my Discovery changed in 1 day. The “sweet spot” for the last 7 months started at 2500 psi and went for 31 shots, 922 fps to 964 fps to 925 fps. On Saturday I installed a Marauder gauge because I broke the Discovery gauge by filling to 2500 psi. The new “sweet spot” starts at 1925 psi and goes for 27 shots, 899 fps to 919 fps to 889 fps. This is using the gun’s most accurate pellet, JSB 8.44 gr.
    When I installed the new gauge, I dry fired the gun about 50 or 60 times to remove the air. I had to do this 2 times because there was an air leak the first time.
    Why do you think the “sweet spot” changed?

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