Roanoke 2008 – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier

Lots of interest in this show, so I’ll do a multi-part report and a long video, to boot. Give me a few days for the video, because that’s a whole different editing process.

The first thing I want to say about this show was that it was both the best show ever and a huge disappointment. It just depends on who you listen to. This time I listened to many of the attendees talk about the show in progress, and I could hear whether they were going to make a good report or not. I guess this is human nature at work; and since I’m a positive person, I’m warning you right now that I think this was the best show ever.

A good show is one where you sell most of what you want to sell and find interesting things to buy. I did both. Since my interests are not necessarily universal, I’ll describe everything I saw.

For starters, this is the largest airgun show in the U.S.–and probably the world. There were over 100 tables of airguns. If you’re a collector, you can find pretty much anything. The setup began before 7 a.m. on opening day and lasted until noon, though most tables were set up by 9:30. Then the dealers, who are the biggest buyers of expensive guns, began making the rounds. In many cases, guns that were priced very low were purchased and relocated to other tables with an appropriate markup. For example, an FWB 300 Universal sold for $425 and landed on another table at $650. That’s the way things go at shows. A couple of my guns wound up that way on other tables.

The doors opened at noon and the public came in, but not in the numbers I’ve seen in recent years. Attendance was off a bit from last year. The buyers who had money seemed less willing to part with it this year, but the dealers had bargains galore. Both things seem based on the perception that the economy is in trouble, though I find it difficult to follow how a man who drives a 2008 Ford F-350 truck and pulls a 28′ fifth-wheel trailer can think the economy is bad! He ought to be dancing in the streets if he can afford the gas for a 10 mpg rig like that!

Honored airgunner
At each show, an airgunner who has done a lot for the hobby is honored before the show opens. This time the recipient was Fred Liady, the host of the Roanoke show. Dennis Quackenbush puts this award together and makes the presentation every year.


Dennis Quackenbust, left, presents the Honored Airgunner award to show host Fred Liady.

First buy
I had already made some prearranged deals before the show opened, but the first buy AT the show was a Diana 27. I talked to Richard Schmidt, from whom I’d bought my other Diana 27 at my first International Airgun Expo 1993 (in Winston-Salem, NC), and told him I was on the lookout for some nice 27s. He came over to my table a minute later with this rifle. It was made in March 1967 and is in slightly better condition than my other one. This one is a .177, which gives me one of each. Since there’s so much interest in this rifle, I thought I might tune it here in the blog and give you guys a look at a vintage gun’s guts. I’ll also learn how healthy it is. That was such a major buy for me that it could have made the show by itself. But there was much more!


Reader Randy in VA holds the Diana 27, which was my first buy at the show.

First reader
The first reader to introduce himself was Randy in VA. He came right up to the table and shook my hand. For the rest of the show, he was often at my table, where I’m sure he got to see the show from a different perspective than most attendees. I was so glad to meet him and to introduce him to the other readers who stopped by. There was Lloyd and Fred and JDK from New York and several others whose names, unfortunately, escape me. It was a real pleasure meeting all you guys.


There’s old B.B., waiting for the next good deal.

Buy the pound!
Crosman collector Ted Summers had a unique twist at his table. He sold Crosman 140 and 1400 pneumatic rifles by the pound! There was a scale on his table where you weighed your treasures for checkout. It was a clever idea that had a lot of people talking.


Airguns by the pound! A great way to stimulate a slow economy (and a sluggish show).


And here are the guns he’s selling by the pound.

The theme of the show
Every airgun show has one or more themes, and this one was no different. For starters, this was the Hammerli show. I mean the real Hammerli airguns made in Switzerland. They were everywhere–rifles and pistols. If you were in the market for a nice one, this was the show to get it.

What was different at this show was a lack of bargains on FWB 124s. There were plenty of excellent and nice 124s present, but nothing was priced under $300. I think airgunners are now fully aware of the 124 and are driving the price up.


This 124 Deluxe is in nice shape, but it needs a piston seal and lacks a front sight. At $395, I felt it was a little pricey. I misread the tag and thought it was selling for $325, which would be about right. I was ready to buy, but the seller wanted at least $350.

Next big buy
My next big buy was a really large one for me. It was an electric air compressor from an M551 Sheridan Armored Reconnaissance Airborn Assault Vehicle. You might call it a tank, but it really isn’t one. However, the point is that if this compressor can survive in a Sheridan, it will last for decades in a shop like mine. I used the compressor that AirForce has that came from a B25 bomber, and it’s lasted for a decade of hard use so far.


A mil-spec compressor for $1600 is a real bargain.


The compressor lived in this little tank.

The reason I’m telling you this is because this compressor cost $1,600. That seems like a lot of money, but compare it to the Swedish model that sells for $1900. The ruggedness of this one will prolong the life cycle many times longer.

There’s a lot more show to come, and a video, but that’ll have to wait.

66 thoughts on “Roanoke 2008 – Part 1

  1. B.B.
    Continued from last night….
    It takes only 2 1/4 turns for the forend screw to release on my SS.
    It looks like I have 5-6 threads available in the frame. If anything strips out it will be the frame and not the screw.

    A screw that is 1/4″ longer will be a couple threads too long, but I can custom cut to fit. I will feel better about it with 5-6 threads holding things together.

    twotalon


  2. B.B.,
    My dog was sitting behind me while I was scrolling down the blog. I think one of the photos freaked him out, ’cause he let out a yelp like he was bitten and ran downstairs, and now he seems afraid about coming back up.

    Any suggestions ? (He is a Collie, looks just like Lassie, in case that is of any help – they are a sensitive breed, and visually oriented). Thank you for your wonderful blog, and thank you to all the Little Helpers.

    – Dr. G.


  3. B.B.

    It was a nice show. As you said people were doing a lot more tire kicking rather than buying. So not a lot of stuff sold off my table. Even the AA S200 went home. Oh well I did add to my Hammerli collection a bit. Took home a nice Match rifle , a Master pistol , and a Sparkler RD pistol. And a late Diana 50 rifle.

    Al


  4. Dear B.B., could you please publish the third installment of the transferport saga? Pretty please? :-)

    I’m waiting with bated breath for the truth about transferportsizes, and after forteen days this gets a little bit uncomfortable. People start asking why I am blue in te face…

    Pieter



  5. B.B.,

    I’m not an expert like you but $1,600.00 for a M551 Sheridan Armored Reconnaissance Airborne Assault Vehicle seems like a good deal.

    What do you think the value of an RWS Diana 27 in very good condition is today? Please don’t feel obligated to answer this question.

    kevin



  6. Hi BB,
    I am going to make the drive (or flight) from Dallas to Roanoke one of these years. I checked the price of flights this year because I couldn’t afford the time off but the flights were pretty pricy. I go to Little Rock every year and it’s one of the highlights of my year. I am sure Roanoke would be even better.

    I always buy 3 or 4 rifles but normally don’t sell anything unless I get desperate. I can normally buy better at the shows and sell better on the airgun classifieds. This gives me the opportunity to try lots of different rifles. Each new purchase starts a new adventure of learning about another model of airgun. I enjoy reading everything I can get my hands on about the guns I buy. By scouring the forums, I often uncover several generations of previous owners for my specific gun. That pretty neat as well.

    The Diana 27 is my favorite air rifle and I am looking forward to your tune articles or blogs. I think the trick with the white grease may be the ticket to keeping stock velocity and reducing spring twang at the same time.

    I like the compressor too. I haven’t been able to justify a compressor since a local scuba store has been filling my tank for free. And, I don’t shoot my PCP nearly as much as my springers.

    I look forward to the remainder of the blog about the show.

    David Enoch



  7. Kevin,

    An entire Sheridan doesn’t have any value – it’s a liability! Believe me, I’ve tried to keep them running!

    What’s a nice model 27 worth? Well, there are pre-war 27s that are worth a lot more than post-war guns. A nice post war Diana (not a Beeman, Winchester, Hy Score or anything else) is probably worth $200-250. That’s what they seem to bring at the shows I go to.

    However, at the gun show that ran concurrently with Roanoke, a nice Winchester 427 sold for $300. I thought that was high, but that Winchester name does command respect.

    B.B.


  8. David,

    I got to both Roanoke and Little Rock, as you know. Roanoke is three Little Rocks. Also, more real vintage guns come to Roanoke because that’s where they sell.

    It’s a 20-hour drive from Dallas.

    Wait until you see the video!

    B.B.



  9. B.B.

    Not to be offended.. I’m sure it was Dennis that scared Dr G’s Collie…

    Or the sight of a rifle, Randy’s dog “Lucy” runs for cover when ever someone picks up a gun of any kind… and around here that’s all the time.. She spends a lot of time at my wife’s feet…

    On the other hand when “Mac” and “Rouge” see me pick up a gun, they come running and jumping on me, wanting to go hunting, (or hiking as it turns out for me)… and no, I didn’t take them on the elk hunt, much to their disappointment..

    That’s a nice Diana 27 you found… I’m drooling on my keyboard..

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  10. Yesterday, I was watching the Discovery channel and the show “How It’s Made” came on. In that episode, I got to see how Crosman brand powerlets were made. I had no idea that so much work went into them. The process is completely automated, but there are still a great number of steps and phases that the carts have to go through.

    One thing that I thought was cool; was when the QC people spot check the finished product, they fire a cart through a Crosman C11, which just so happens to be the latest addition to my airgun arsenal.


  11. Wayne,

    My male cat now gets spooked whenever I hold a handgun, but not a rifle. This is a recent development, and I think it has something to do with his political orientation. I don’t think we are in the same party.

    B.B.


  12. B.B.

    It’s probably got to do with how many lives he has left…

    So your saying that little compressor makes enough air pressure to shoot the canon on that tank?:)

    I better get one real quick..

    Wayne


  13. B.B.,
    Nice meeting you and the others at the show and having a chance to chat. The quantity of guns for sale was pretty overwhelming and I was wishing I had your encyclopedic knowledge of guns and their values, or a handy internet connection to search this blog for info. There was fellow there from nothern Alabama who had a dizzying assortment of newish guns and I was sorely tempted, but didn’t know what to choose. I’m sure he would have happily choosen one for me, LOL. I managed to get away with $200 of impulse purchases. Next year I’ll bring more money!
    Lloyd



  14. B.B.,

    I’m really interested in a couple of the Hatsan Arms air rifles !! Do you or anyone else know if there is a U.S. dealer I can buy from ?? I like the Falcon Hunter but there are a couple other models on their site that I really like !!


  15. B.B.

    Thanks for the report. Pretty cool. Is this the sort of show where dealers give a preview of what’s to come like at some gun shows I’ve heard of? Any more news about the successor/update to the Discovery? How about the release of the Air Force Edge?

    What do you use an electric air compressor for?

    Thanks too for the very interesting blogs on reading targets of the last couple of days. I wonder if I could get your opinion about this remark that I got from a website:

    “but it is an accepted fact that the No4 Mk1(T) rifles actually get more accurate the further you go out. You might shoot 3 MOA at 100 meters, but it will likely drop to around 1.5 MOA at 600 meters.”

    I read something similar about the Steyr SSG which is supposed to either maintain accuracy or even improve on it as the distance increases. I can see how a rifle decreases the rate at which the MOA enlarges as distance gets further. But I don’t see how the MOA itself could decrease. This flies in the face of the ballistic cone idea and basic geometry. The projectile would have to decide after 100 yards that it is suddenly going to start deviating less from the point-of-aim. How could such a thing be possible?

    Matt61


  16. BB,

    Thanks for the show update. I’ve got a question about an old Crosman 140/147. Any idea what kind of pressure the valve holds at about 8 pumps?

    Thanks,

    Derrick


  17. David,

    I know that Pyramyd Air has most of the Hatsan models. They were looking into carrying the line at one time.

    They may be willing to sell a gun or two.

    Other than them I don’t know who sells Hatsan directly. Their involvement with Umarex and Webley has clouded the market for their guns.

    B.B.


  18. Matt,

    The SHOT Show is where new airguns and firearms are announced.

    The next Crosman /Benjamin rifle is on track to be announced at the 2009 SHOT Show.

    You use an electric compressor to fill scuba tanks for operating PCPs.

    About that remark that a gun becomes more accurate at range, he’s claiming the dispersion rate declines with distance. I have heard that it can sometimes works that way, but I don’t know about this particular gun.

    It doesn’t make smaller groups, because a 1-inch group is a minute of angle at 100 yards, but a 3-inch group is a minute of angle at 300 yards. What he is saying is that the dispersion rate slows with distance.

    How such a thing is possible is that an over-stabilized bullet suddenly stabilizes at some distance.

    B.B.


  19. Derrick,

    I don’t know the pressure exactly, but from W.H.B. Smith’s tests in the 1950s and from the ballistic performance of those guns, I’d say the pressure is around 1,200 to 1,400 psi.

    B.BN.



  20. B.B.

    Thanks for the info. Now, I understand the investment in the electric air compressor.

    Yes, I can see decreasing the dispersion rate, so that in the case of your example your 1 MOA at a hundred yards does not increase to 2 MOA (6 inches) at 300 yards. But you can’t have a rifle that decreases MOA by shooting 1 MOA (1 inch) at a hundred yards than .5 MOA (1.5 inches) at 300 yards, can you? This implies to me that not only have you eliminated the rate of dispersion but your bullet is actually moving back inward to the point of impact.

    Hm, I’ve started to read about the stabilization of bullets, twist rates and bullet weights but I will have to study this before I have anything else to say.

    Matt61


  21. BB,
    I was shooting my RWS 34 today and when I cleaned the barrel, the inch of space where the pellet sits was rough (I want to say corroded but I can’t quite say rough). There were 2 bands of rough…ness, inbetween the bands were clear(as if the contact from the head and skirt wore it down as they were pressed against the walls). My RWS34 only has about 1500 shots in it and I only use premier heavys and gamo rocket. It’s still accurate and retrieved spent bullets don’t seem to be deformed (except the smooth rifle engravings).
    Shadow express dude


  22. Matt,

    The bullet doesn’t necessarily move back towards the POA, it just moves away less slowly after it becomes stabilized. That’s my take on it, hope BB gives the right answer.




  23. BG_Farmer,

    Thanks. Yes, this is one of those things that you think about and then wonder if your question wasn’t already answered and that you missed something.

    It just seems to me that if you are shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards, then your bullet is traveling along a straight line from the muzzle to a .5 inch deviation from POA. As I understand it, accuracy degrades over distance, so while it is not uncommon to shoot MOA (1 inch) at 100 yards it is very rare to shoot MOA (10 inches) at 1000 yards. I can see various effects limiting the dispersion down to a limit of MOA so that you are shooting 10 inches at 1000 yards. But why would a bullet turn inward from its straight line at 100 yards which it would have to do to go below MOA at 1000 yards? The straight line established at 100 yards seems to create an inertia, so what would cause it to move back inwards towards the target? Can bullet spin really do this? Anyway, that’s where I am with this, but I will keep thinking about it.

    Matt61


  24. Matt,

    BG_Farmer got it right. I was about to post the same explanation when I saw his.

    Don’t feel like you are alone in not understanding bullet stabilization. It took the Army years to recognize and correct a too-slow twist rate in the original M16.

    B.B.



  25. twotalon: PVC pipe is not the way to go for the bird feeder. My SS running on CO2 number 6 on the power wheel smoked it at 20 yards. Too bad cause that’s some easy stuff to work with. Mr B.



  26. mr b.
    thanks. I figured something like that.
    Maybe some rabbit wire formed to shape and lined with a piece of inner tube.
    I usually shoot my SS at full power with heavy pellets in the winter. The wind is wicked in my back yard.
    Could be a good winter project when not killing starlings.
    twotalon


  27. B.B.

    Thanks for the kind words and the picture on the blog. You are the man for driving straight through to Dallas.

    Haven’t seen a Sheridan in a while. The guys in the 82nd Airborne joked that they would bounce fairly high if they weren’t dropped just right.

    I’m still working my way through the (dented) tins of pellets. The Avanti 717 is perfect for the garage. It also satisfied my new gun fix till the new Discovery comes out. Hopefully, I’ll be able to bring a little more cash next year.

    Randy


  28. Randy,

    Yeah, dropping a Sheridan is a good thing – especially if the chute doesn’t open.

    I’m glad the 717 worked out – even with the glued sights. And more cash is the way to go. I find that no matter how much I bring I always need at least that much more.

    B.B.


  29. twoTalon,

    Did you check out the steel tube feeders, if you search for “squirrel proof bird feeders” you’ll find some.. You could have a bouncing problem, since it’s round… so maybe a curved backstop or something around it pretty close.

    Come to think of it some are not round…. when something heavy as a squirrel steps on the perch, it closes the feeding port.. and they are made from sheet metal…it would dent, but not break..

    just ideas
    Wayne


  30. Wayne..
    Still thinking about it. The wooden one has not been hit yet. This is the one I put cat food in.
    It’s braced so that both feeding sides line up with my back door, and multiple kills with one shot are common.
    The one I blow up is the one with the bird feed, and attracts a lot of seed eaters. Swings a lot in the wind. And gets hit all the time. When a sparrow shows up I will wack him if he is in the wrong place or not. Very challenging shooting sparrows when the feeder is swinging and twisting in the wind. Takes good timing…which I don’t always have.
    Could get another wooden one and brace it like I did the starling feeder. Quite a bit of money. Gets to be a lot of weight hanging on the double sheppherds hooks.

    Will look at the squirrel proof stuff.

    twotalon

    twotalon


  31. Since no one has said what the M551 compressor is for then I will tell you. This is for Wayne just in case he was serious about the main gun being fired with the compressor. The M551 used a caseless round and after each time it was fired any burning particles were blown out with compressed air.
    BB I was with B trp. 1/1 Cav Americal Division (1/1 was attached from the 1st Armored Division) ’69-’70 and in late ’69 we switched over from M48A3′s to the Sheridan. Sure coundn’t take a mine or 250-500lb bomb but didn’t get buried in the paddys every time you turned around. I rode an ACAV so it didn’t make any difference to me.



  32. Robert,

    Yes thank you very much for your service!!

    And yes, I was kidding… It’s impressive enough that it can even clean the barrel, if that’s what’s your saying..

    Joking is my second favorite pass time.. shooting is first (at least in the hobby area)…. It’s healthy to laugh… so don’t take me to serious… unless were talking groups..

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  33. TwoTalon,

    I get it now….

    How about a coffee can and a pie plate.. save the plastic cover and take out both ends, cut notches in one end and bolt or screw onto the metal pie plate… drill holes in the pie plate to let water out…drill a hole in the center of the pie plate and the plastic cover, and run a piece of wire from the bottom up through the whole thing.. loop it on top and hang from the hook..

    Don’t shoot the song birds…. but shoot all the English sparrows and Starlings you want.. they steal our native song birds nests.. But I think you knew that already..
    Just saying it for others..

    Wayne


  34. Matt,

    I think what has you confused is the conception of the bullet’s path as a straight line along from muzzle to POA. Instead, think of the path (disregarding wind and parabolic trajectory) as a spiral of increasing radius rotated around the line you envision. When the bullet’s spin rate varies from optimal, the radius of the spiral increases at a greater rate.

    Now, collapse the flight path to 2D, and think of it as an oscillating waveform, increasing or decreasing in magnitude at a rate according to the error in spin rate and then superimpose the two lines limiting a dispersion cone distending a fixed angle (e.g. 1 MOA). You can see that the cone increases in size ( at least here) linearly, so that if the rate of increase for the magnitude of the oscillation is decreased sufficiently (bullet stabilized), the lines defining the cone are at some point outside the extents of the oscillating waveform. Similarly, if the bullet becomes unstable again, the rate of increase in the waveform’s amplitude overtakes the limits of the cone.

    At least that’s what I think is happening:). BB, of course, has touched on the spiral in his encyclopedic blog:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/08/mystery-of-grouping-to-left-right-two.html

    Anyone, feel free to correct me!


  35. Wayne…
    Sounds like an idea.

    Lots of different birds in the winter. Birds attract more birds. The sparrows and starlings are watching and gain confidence. Good scope is necessary to tell the difference between some of the finches and the sparrows.

    A pair of cardinals spent the whole winter out there living in the crab apple tree and eating at the feeder. They detest the starlings too. The old red bird seemed to enjoy watching the starlings falling past him to the ground.
    Crab apple trees that have the small cherry looking fruits that stay on the tree all winter really attract starlings. Nothing else eats them.Then they spot the cat food in the one feeder.
    Have shot a mop bucket full of them in just a couple days when some big flocks find the food.

    twotalon


  36. Pellet Stabilizing….

    From what B.B. has said in the past, it doesn’t seem to hard to thinking of a situation where a pellet could stabilize in flight. If the pellet were initially shot at transonic velocity (1100fps) the shock wave would push it around. When the velocity dropped to 900 fps or so the transonic shock wave would go away and the pellet wouldn’t disperse as fast. Right?

    Herb


  37. BB – I recently bought an IZH-61, and quickly remembered all the trouble you had with the one you tested. On this one I can feel a pretty significant notchiness as the loading rod pushes a pellet from a magazine hole into the chamber. Some mag holes are worse than others… but I can feel it in all of them.

    If I don’t use the mag and load it single shot (by dropping a pellet into the breech with tweezers), there is virtually NO felt resistance from seating the pellet at all – so I know it’s not from seating it into the bore of the barrel.

    Can you shed any light on this – other than to say that pellet repeaters aren’t generally a good idea?


  38. Herb,

    You’re right of course, but the problem in that situation I think would be that the pellet is so off- course by the time it returns to sub-sonic velocities and is stabilized that the POI is a toss-up. My understanding is that spin has little effect on the stability of most pellets, which work on what I can only call the Badminton birdie principle:).

    Matt’s question regarded a spin-stabilized bullet that is “over-stabilized” initially, i.e. spinning too fast, but seemingly becomes more accurate as range increases.






  39. Thanks B.B., BG_Farmer and Herb for your comments on bullet/pellet stabilization. I could hardly make any sense out of studying gyroscopic effects in a much more controlled environment, so I don’t believe that I can just figure this one out. However, here are my responses for what they’re worth.

    Yes, I do remember now about the spiral path of the pellet. Not only do I remember that particular blog, but I now even remember them from that Bullet’s Flight book by the guy with the tireless feet. And yes, BG_Farmer the spiral flight does complicate things. However, I don’t think that the spiral flight is the main determinant of group size. It could only be so if the shooter touched off the shot exactly on target every time. For example, are we supposed to believe that a 3 MOA rifle like the original example shooting a .303 bullet at about 2800 fps is spiralling around a three inch diameter circle in the first 100 yards, 6 inch circle at 200 yards, a 15 inch circle at 500 yards? That boggles the mind.

    I think another source of confusion here is the notion of dispersion rate. Any projectile that does not hit directly at point of aim has a dispersion rate. But is that rate increasing, or constant or decreasing? All of these very different conditions are included in the term dispersion rate, and in all cases the projectile is still moving away from point of aim. As I said before, I have no doubt that the changing stabilization of the bullet can reduce an increasing dispersion rate down to a constant one so that the pellet is moving in a straight line (that does not coincide with the point of aim). In this case the MOA would be preserved across distances. But how the projectile could gain a negative dispersion rate where it starts moving back to the point of aim (MOA decreases) is beyond me. At this point, it has no memory of the barrel or rifling, so what could make it move back towards the target? If the spiral path that BG_Farmer referenced really determines group size then I could see the circle shrinking and the projectile moving inward, but otherwise not. Anyway, that’s where I am with this, but needless to say just because I don’t understand doesn’t mean it’s not true.

    Matt61


  40. Robert,

    Yes, I remember the ric e paddy defense. But you had to get the darn thing running to go out into the paddy, and of course with the Sheridan, that was the problem. I had a motor pool full of queens that ate up my deadline report.

    I was Third Cav at Ft. Bliss when we traded in our M60s for Sheridans. They ran fine for a while, but before long they all started breaking down.

    We also had the 114s, which were a scout vehicle with a 283 Chevy V8. Those worked better, but couldn’t keep their tracks on when run at any speed.

    Give me a 113 any day!

    B.B.


  41. Vince,

    You are describing an indexing problem. If it happens with all clips, it is the gun that’s at fault. But you only mentioned a single clip. It’s possible that clip is faulty or worn and the problem might be corrected with a new clip.

    If it is the rifle and not the clip, something in the indexing mechanism is either not pushing the clip far enough, or holding it in the wrong position. That has to be fixed for the gun to feed smoothly.

    B.B.


  42. Walter,

    That was a B25 (Mitchell) bomber – not a B52 Stratofortress. Though the 52 may also have this compressor. When the military finds an item like this one that works well, they tend to put it on everything, which is why they are available on the surplus market.

    Look on Ebay and check with PCP dealers. This one came to the former owner from Airhog. If you are interested in buying one at $1600, say so. I may know of one for sale.

    B.B.


  43. DB,

    Remember that when I worked with Crosman on the Discovery, I also defined the second gun for them. I just did not develop it. A lot of the features it will have were things they wanted to put on the Discovery. I felt those things should wait, as we would never get the gun out the door if we tried to develop everything at once.

    With SHOT Show coming up in January, I expect them to announce the second gun and to be shipping it around the middle of 2009.

    B.B.



  44. Well, BB, the IZH-61 is new (although it’s apparently been sitting on a shelf for a while) – and it happens to a certain extent with both magazines. I’d be tempted to say that the plastic loading port between the breech and the magazine might be malformed, but when I use tweezers to load a pellet singly it drops right in.




  45. Hi B.B.-

    I’m one of those locals who came out to the Roanoke show and, as a relative airgun newbie, was mostly interested in modern guns (although I was intrigued by the collectibles).

    It was good to meet you so I could tell you in person how much I enjoy your work. I also appreciated the advice regarding my search for a do-everything rifle to replace my recently stolen English-made Patriot.

    A friend who is a music critic once told me it’s risky to tell someone “you’re going to love this” because tastes are so personal. So you were taking a risk when you told me “you’re going to love the TX-200.” OK, it wasn’t much of a risk, was it?

    I promised to keep you posted, so here it is.

    Obviously I’m just getting started with this thing, but I do love it. It’s smooth, quiet and already amazingly accurate even though I’m still getting the scope dialed in and working on finding the best pellet matches. The difference between this and the Patriot is astounding. It’s actually fun to shoot! (I can only hope the person who stole the Patriot has as hard a time as I did shooting it consistently.)

    Again, thanks for the advice and all the work you do. No need to reply.

    Mark


  46. Mark,

    I am going to reply to you, because you did what I asked. The TX 200 is such a wonderful airgun that I have no reservations recommending it to anyone. I’ve never seen a bad one. Once you get past the price, the rest of the experience is a joy.

    I believe this rifle will grow on you as you shoot it. Soon you will wonder how you ever got along without it.

    And that is my message to anyone who hasn’t bought a TX 200 yet. Go for it! It may be a stretch, but when we stretch, we grow.

    Keep us posted Mark.

    B.B.


  47. Some interesting thing had happened to me. When I recieved my benjamin discovery from pyramid air, I noticed that the gun did not have the name engraved on the forearm, but the gun worked well, no complaints. Recently, after several unsuccessful tries to get a bigbore (I missed it on the Quackenbush’s list and sunshine airguns seem to be out of business) I decided to make one out of discovery. I figured that I’ll have to make a pistol since the valve will not deliver enough air for a rifle. So I took the tube from crosman pistol. When I opened the discovery, I found that the valve was made out of a light metal(most likely alluminum) and the tube seemed to be of the same thickness as crosman’s. I also had some problems fixing a valve inside.
    1.Is the valve supposed to be as described?(light metal)
    2.Is the material of which the tube of discovery is made the same as crosmans, and if so, can the crosman pistol tube sustain pressure of 2000 psi?(I now run it on 1000-1250 for safety reasons)
    3.First, when i tried to put the valve inside, I pumped it a couple of times. There was a leak. Tried several times, never worked, but I noticed that the more I pump in it, the better it stays. Eventually, I started pumping ignoring the leak and after about 7 pumps, the leak stopped as if the pressure had sealed it. Is it normal?
    I have a crappy self-made smoothbore of about 8mm, so I shoot both bbs as shots and slugs out of it. First I had it running on CO2(crosman pistol) but then decided to go for PCP. Not a very powerful one (a load of 10-15 bbs each performing the same as crosman C11 pistol, slugs were not tested yet), but a lot of fun, looks like sawn off. I thought that the power might increase if I raise the pressure, but I’m afraid if the tube can’t handle it, so I’m asking your advise.


  48. The Discovery never had the Benjamin name on the stock. That is the Super Streak.

    The schedule tubing used for the reservoir is good for a SWP of 3000 psi. The schedule of tubing on any other benjamin or Crosman gun is not rated above 1,000 psi SWP.

    B.B.


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