10-meter rifles – Part 4 Used 10-meter rifles

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 2/The budget rifles, continued
Part 3 The Olympic rifles
Part 3 The Olympic rifles, continued

Okay, all you 10-meter-philes, wake up, because today will be special! First, though, I have to remark that the survey on the Pyramyd Air home page is indicating that most airgunners like to hunt. Ten-meter shooting is coming in much lower. I told them I thought people might be interested in a lot of things and not consider themselves to be 10-meter shooters, but they may still have an interest in the guns. I drive a pick-up truck and live in Texas, but I’m not a cowboy. Okay, let’s get to it.

Used guns to be concerned about & why
Gamo/Daisy 126 – Needs frequent rebuilding. I would avoid it altogether.

All FWB spring guns, including Daisy models – Their early piston seal formula deteriorated over time. If you buy a 150 or 300 target rifle, be aware that it may need a costly resealing ($150 and up). Same for a 124, but the cost to rebuild is under $100. The new seals last much longer in all models.

Walther LG 55 and LGV – Same seal problem as FWB. The fix is easier and cheaper because these are simpler actions. Finding the new seals is harder.

Diana model 60/65/66/75 recoilless rifles (model 75 also briefly sold by Beeman as model 400) – Same seal problem as FWB and Walther. Costly to fix, but Umarex USA can do the work. Giss counter-recoilling piston has to be timed with the power piston so this is definitely not a DIY job!

 

Diana model 65 was an early breakbarrel recoilless target rifle based on the Giss system. You can spot a Giss system by the round cap over the trunnion that connects the two pistons (silver circle above stock). There is one on each side of the spring tube.
Anschutz 250 – Has an oil recoil damper that invariably leaks over time. Parts are nonexistent, but a clever airgunsmith can sometimes repair it. Also, this model is EXTREMELY prone to developing a crack in the near-vertical pistol grip. Of nine rifles I’ve examined, seven were cracked at the pistol grip along the line of the wood grain.

What works?
Those problems will not be found on every one of these guns. Many of the FWB 150/300s have now been rebuilt with modern seals that will last a long time. Same for the 124 that I just threw in for good measure. Same for about three-quarters of the Diana guns, but more of them will need seals than the FWBs.

These older guns now sell for $450-750, depending on their condition and the accessories that come with them. Their triggers are very good compared to a sporter trigger, but they are nowhere near the triggers on guns of later make. They usually lack overtravel stops, and nearly all lack a dry-fire capability.

Guns you never hear of
The Haenel 311 bolt-action target rifle is in the informal class, but the sidelever model 312 is much nicer and more like a real target rifle. The Haenel model 50 (I believe) is the same as a Hammerli overlever single-stroke rifle that’s quirky but accurate enough for informal target shooting. The Mauser 300 was made by Hammerli, I believe. Another good informal target rifle.

As you get into the 1980s guns, CO2 comes into use and many of these guns are still competing regionally. No brands have outstanding problems, but you probably don’t want to shoot a Crosman 84, because it’s so rare. The factory says only about 100 were ever made, so I’d keep it as a collectible rather than a shooter.

In the 1990s, compressed air began replacing CO2 as the power of choice. But CO2 guns continued to be made during this period, so they advanced at the same rate as the pneumatics.

Go for the gold!
The beauty of a 1980s and 1990s target rifle is that they’re just as accurate as the guns of today. What they lack are the ergonomics, but that’s about all. The prices for these guns run in the $500-700 range. You’ll occasionally see someone asking $1,000, but not many will sell at that price. This is where you can buy a top-quality 10-meter gun for very little. The brands to look for are Feinwerkbau, Walther, Anschutz and Steyr.

 

Not obsolete yet, but give it another year or two and this FWB P70 will be a gun to watch for.
A tip
Precharged rifle removable air tanks have a service life of 20 years. Some guns will be sold because the service life is running out on the tanks. They cannot be rebuilt or serviced in any way – you’re supposed to just throw them out. If I were looking for a good deal, I wouldn’t worry about the remaining service life – as long as the seller is worrying. Only the owner will ever charge these tanks, so it’s up to you whether you discard the tanks or not at the recommended time. They are way under the size of tanks that have to be hydrostatted, and they never go empty unless they had to be shipped, so they have much less work-hardening. You can probably buy new tanks for almost any PCP gun on the market. Features may change on the gun over the years, but fundamental specifications such as tank fittings seldom change.

Don’t overlook single-strokes!
I haven’t mentioned single-strokes yet, but all of them are in the “good” category except for the Gamo 126. Starting with the Walther LGR, which tenaciously holds its price, all the way down to the FWB 602, a used single-stroke can be a wonderful way to break into 10-meter rifles. The LGR is a little hard to pump, but the designs get easier with each passing model, and the most recent ones take less than 20 lbs. of effort. Single-strokes seem to hold their prices better than CO2 or even PCP guns – maybe because you can travel with them. Expect to pay $700-900 for a good one. I’ve even seen asking prices as high as $1,400.

 

FWB 601 single-stroke is obsolete but remains a wonderful target rifle. It could still win gold!
 

I think this is an old Steyr single-stroke, but it could be a Walther. Either way, it’s a great target rifle that won’t cost you much money.
What about running bore/running target guns?
These rifles were not made for 10-meter competition. They were made to shoot moving targets and to be swung as they are aimed and shot. They don’t make good substitutes, even if you can get them with the correct sights. Since they were made to be scoped, they’re not something to buy unless that’s what you want.

82 thoughts on “10-meter rifles – Part 4 Used 10-meter rifles

  1. BB – Having just rebuilt an RWS/Diana 75, I can tell you it can be a DIY job, if you’ve a certain level of [patient] mechanical aptitude. Here’s a useful link:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/405945/message/1181173509/As+promised…Diana+75+How-to+with+trigger+diagram

    Not for the faint of heart, but definitely doable. The seals run about $30/set. I wouldn’t hesitate to pick up a poorly sealed 75 ‘on the cheap’. Beautifully engineered springers, really the pinnacle of that powerplant.

    -Steve


  2. Steve,

    I went to the link you provided and all the Photobucket photos have been moved or deleted. You probably still see them because they are in your computer’s cache.

    I cannot recommend a complex DIY project on this blog because the readers have different levels of competence. Some find changing flashlight batteries a chore while others are very skilled.

    When people undertake a project beyond their skill, they get in over their head, then panic. Given the nature of this blog, I cannot risk that.

    If you remember the spring gun tuning article, I got a lot of questions from that, and the R1 is one of the easiest airguns there is to disassemble.

    No, I cannot recommend the Diana 75 as a DIY project.

    I am happy you were able to do it, however. And your skill will serve you well if you ever find a rifle that needs a seal.

    B.B.


  3. Understood! It was definitely a challenge – I’d work on it, let it sit a couple weeks – think – come back – let it sit – think – but eventually, I got it. The toughest part is that the new seals will not be the same thickness (Thickness; not Diameter, which should be fine) as what’s coming out, so the indexing won’t match up. We’re talking a few thousandths of an inch to set things askew. Now, I know that, and would always know to sand/shim the new seals to exactly match the outgoing.

    Is the GISS system on the 75 substantially what Whiscombe used as a base for his guns? I’m under the impression his pistons form a ‘hand-clap’, as opposed to going in opposite directions?
    Regards, Steve


  4. BB,

    I have been reading your blog for over a year now, and you never ran out of helpful and informative things to say about airguns, and sometimes even just firearms. Now that I reflect back at all your postings in this blog, I am just amazed in regards to the amount of knowledge you have about airguns. Thank you for sharing all you airgun knowledge with us.

    Joe


  5. Steve,

    I guess you could say the Giss system was at least an inspiration for Whiscombe, but in his system, the pistons come together instead of going apart. The pistons aren’t timed, as the Giss pistons have to be, but they both have to arrive at a precise point, with the air transfer port in between.

    I think the Whiscombe system is simpler than the Giss, though the cocking mechanism does require several more parts.

    B.B.


  6. Joe,

    Thank you for that very nice compliment, but I want to point out that I don’t really know that much about airguns. Maybe to a beginner it seems I know a lot, but I am still a student of this hobby. I learn from you readers every day.

    However, I do have something that works well for me. Once I get a basic concept internalized, it stays with me forever.

    Ten years ago I read where Sam Fadala, a noted blackpowder author, tested numerous round-ball rifles and discovered that balls shed half their initial velocity (and WAY more energy) in the first 100 yards. Knowing that a ball is a ball, no matter what size, I internalized that. It has served me well.

    This past weekend some big bore hunters were hunting exotic game and one of them shot a round ball at a ram. Because it had such a great muzzle velocity he thought it would make a good long-range bullet, too. Well, it bounced off his ram at 70 yards! He then loaded a proper conical bullet into the same airgun and proceeded to kill the ram. I could have predicted that outcome from the knowledge that round balls shed velocity fast.

    What I’m saying is this – I look for the underlying principles of this hobby, and when I find one, I internalize it. That doesn’t make me smart or more knowledgeable than others, but I do make good guesses a lot of the time. That and hiding behind a heavy curtain is all it takes to maintain the facade.

    B.B.


  7. B.B.,

    Any idea as to when that RWS-specific scope mount that you’ve helped design will hit the shelves?

    Thanks,

    Felipe


  8. BB,

    I second Joe’s compliments and thank you very much. I also appreciate your humility. It’s increasingly difficult to find these days.

    I recently purchased a Beeman RS2 (SS-1000H?) from Bass Pro. I think it’s and SS-1000 because it has the silver adjustable trigger that you mention in your review, but only came with a .177 barrel.

    Being new to adult airguns, I’m finding this gun to be hold sensitive in the extreme. Most of my experience with it so far is target shooting at 15 yards to try and get used to it’s quirks. The best 5 shot group I’ve had so far is probably .75 ctc, but that is the exception. I have 1,000 to 1,500 rounds through it so far without any noticeable improvement. Of the ammo that I’ve tried so far, it seems to prefer CPLHP’s , (I intend to order a box of CPL’s and CPLH’s soon to see if there is any improvement).

    The stock screws did loosen after a while and I have tightened them, the barrel bolt has loosened some (to the point that it no longer stays in place throughout the cocking stroke, so I’ll need to tighten it), and I removed the muzzle brake and checked the crown and it seems ok.

    My son has a youth model Gamo springer that I can shoot remarkably better groups with, so it doesn’t seem that the problem is only my technique.

    The artillery hold doesn’t seem to be practical for hunting (one of my intended uses). My question is, if this gun is as sensitive as it seems, should I be looking for a different gun, or maybe replace the barrel (it does have two set screws in the block that appear to hold the barrel)? Any idea if Beeman would be of assistance? They do promote this as a .2″ ctc gun after all.

    Thanks,

    TC



  9. TC,

    You HAVE to find a way to make the artillery hold work. It’s the only way a breakbarrel spring gun can achieve its potential.

    Field target shooters use the artillery hold in the sitting position all the time. Just work on it, because with a breakbarrel, that’s how you get the best groups.

    B.B.


  10. Okay, so reasonably I have $500 or so to spend on a target rifle.
    Make no mistakes…it’s going to be for my personal pleasure…I’ll likely never enter a comptetion.
    Would I be better to buy one of the used ones you’ve mentioned, or a new Avanti 853c (which I’ve been looking at on the commercial site)?
    Thanks


  11. If I have an Airforce Talon with the standard 18 inch barrel and I put the 24 inch barrel on it. Would I be able to get more shots per fill if I turned the power down to what the Talon gets with the 18 inch barrel at full power?


  12. Undecided,

    The decision to buy new or used is something only you can make. The best I can do is tell you how each one performs, which I see I haven’t done yet for the 853. More grist for the mill!

    B.B.



  13. BB,

    I wondered about the survey myself. Maybe many shooters think “10m” is too formal a term for what they do (I wondered myself) and select plinking. I think if 10M had been “targets”, it would be a bigger category. Also, hunting probably captures “pest elimination”, which I consider something different. Finally, there’s no category for benchrest.

    Anyway, it seems like a lot of people are enjoying learning about 10M on the blog and might try it as a result.

    I was thinking FWB 300 someday in the future, but your blog may have convinced me to look for an SSP, such a FWB 60x.

    PS. I noticed silhouette is the least popular airgun sport by far according to the survey. Too bad, it looks like fun.



  14. B.B.

    I read a psychological study of “expert learning” and one of the features of experts is to develop structures of knowledge rather than try to know everything, so your approach checks out.

    Did you say that walnut shells are good filler for benchrest bags? My location is short on space but is plentiful in walnut shells which are literally dropping from the trees.

    How is field target different from silhouette shooting? Aren’t you knocking over metal targets in field target?

    Matt61


  15. Reloaders, how much does reloading cost per round? That would be the expense for the bullet, powder, primer, and case divided by 4 since you can reload shell casings about this number of times, right? Thanks.

    Matt61


  16. Matt61,

    Crushed walnut shells. Don’t process them yourself, unless you want some great natural brown die! Buy them at the pet food store. They’re used in reptile cages.

    Cost to reload. Well, since I do it all (including casting bullets with free lead), I can reload a round of .45 auto for about 4 cents. That’s $4.00/100. Commerical cost is about $32/100.

    For the 6.5 Swede, I buy bullets, so the cost rises to $15/100. For commercial loads you will pay about $40-50, unless you buy surplus.

    For my Garand that I feed very expensive MatchKing bullets, the cost is $28/100. For commercial equivalents, the cost would be around $60-75.

    B.B.


  17. wow…you had a few questions today….I was just wondering if you heard from Beeman about the air rifle you sent them to fix?

    Seems like a lot of low end springers are made in china. Why doesn’t the US companies make springers (besides becoming obsolete)? I read about the one hy-score pistol. Is that about it for the US?

    Well I suppose if springer didn’t have a lot of power in the past a multipump may have been more popular and easier to shoot.

    What is the general timeline for .177 fps in airgun history?


  18. ajvenom,

    So, you pile on even more?

    I’ve not heard on the Beeman gun yet.

    Spring guns were popular in Europe long before the U.S. That’s because we were too busy shooting firearms that the Europeans couldn’t.

    .177 velocity for spring guns only
    real velocity, not advertised velocity

    1906 – 600 f.p.s.
    1975 – 800 f.p.s.
    1983 – 950 f.p.s.
    1984 – 1,000 f.p.s.
    1985 – 1,100 f.p.s.
    2001 – 1,250 f.p.s.
    2006 – 1,450 f.p.s.

    B.B.


  19. Matt,

    For silhouette, see Wednesday, October 05, 2005 — Metallic Sihouette.

    By “expert learning” are you referring to AI or pedagogy? I wouldn’t trust anything written in either field based on results.

    BB,

    I wasn’t trying to be critical of you or PA for the survey.


  20. My cheapo 10 meter (953) is pure fun to shoot, and it’s got me idly looking at used SSPs.

    Whether that happens or not is dependent on finances and fortune somehow coinciding, but then, waiting to see what the Air Force Edge looks like isn’t a bad idea either (though I don’t look forward to the scuba tank ordeal).

    Another great series. You seem intent on separating us from our hard-earned dollars… 8-)


  21. BB,

    Lately I would consider myself a hunter because of all the black birds(grackles,starlings) I have been shooting. Even though I don’t eat them. It has attracted a few red tailed hawks. Before this I would consider myself a target shooter. Mostly targets and some field target shooting. If I had to classify myself it would be general.


  22. BB & PA,
    My thoughts on the survey question was similar to those mentioned in this blog today.

    When I read it my thought was… I prefer hunting… but I shoot 1,000 shots on paper for every 1 shot shot hunting. Since the question was “What’s your favorite…” I checked hunting. Had it said what do do most then it would have been field target or pliking.

    I find 10m fun for a pistol but not so much for a rifle. Measuring hits in a 1/0th of and inch is too much work for me. Nickle size groups are fine. Dime size is a great day. This however does not mean reading about the sport is not enjoyable… so keep posting about it.

    Thanks,
    DB



  23. Thanks for the answers…..that was quick.

    Yes, I chat with people around the world on airguns….we are lucky in the US when it comes firearm laws. Although, I am bit jealous of the moderators they can get in the UK. My state doesn’t allow for it.

    Well I hope the US PCPs do well. I couldn’t afford the AF I wanted…so I hope the Benji Discovery does well.

    6.5 swede….pretty sweet…I like the .270 also. The .270 seems to be a favorite of the late Jack O’Connor too I’ve read. I think anything in that area is about the best for a non mag round…If not a weatherby 300 mag. has some promising specs.


  24. bg-farmer

    Thanks for the reference to the silhouette blog.

    As for the expert learning bit, I came across that in a talk by two psychologists from Johns Hopkins U. Their talk kept me awake which is not the norm. Anyway, their two main features of the expert learner across fields were 1) the use of structures of knowledge and 2) fluency of approach. For this last, the novice will keep plugging away at the same unsuccessful tactic (buying pellets from Wal-Mart ha ha) while the expert will try different approaches.

    Yes, I agree that big credentials should be as suspect as anything, but these idea I have actually found to be kind of useful.

    Matt61


  25. B.B.

    Thanks for the timely warning about the walnut shells. I was all set to load them up into my Beeman benchrest bags for a first ever trip to the local shooting range tomorrow. Whoo hoo. I thought that the shells were pretty dirty and even the half-shells looked pretty big.

    Wow, casting home-made bullets is truly beyond. That’s getting you down to pellet prices. Federal American Eagles are supposed to be okay for the Garand at about 80 cents per round and the Black Hills Gold comes in at a whopping $1.50.

    MatchKing bullets enter into one of Stephen Hunter’s Bob Lee Swagger novels where a Soviet sniper uses MatchKing bullets in a Garand to drop targets at about 1500 yards.

    Matt61


  26. bb,

    I listened to you pod-cast. I really enjoyed it, so thanks. Speaking of “jolt”, my airwolf kicks more than both of my theoben rapids. It get about 13 foot pounds over one of my rapids and about 2 over the other. The airwolf is dead but has a bit of a pop (not sound, movement) when it goes off. Its not a bad thing but i still noticed it. The theobens don’t have this “pop”. They feel more mechanical but still – no pop. I think it could be attributed to the shorter barrel in some way. The top speed of the pellet may be the same but the rate of gain of speed in the barrel is different.



  27. To All,

    I have posted before about anyone in the Chicago area interested in some form of 10M club/get together/competition.

    No response other than BB suggesting the NRA site. I tried that, again no response (waited one month).

    So. . . if anyone hears of another airgunner in Chicago area interested in getting together, let me know. Thanks.

    Al Pellet


  28. Hi Matt61,

    OT post…

    My cost for reloading is about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of factory rounds, no matter whether it’s for 44 mag, 9x 18 Makarov, 8mm Mauser or any other. This is my cost when I use premium bullets (I don’t cast my own), Vihtavouri powders (Finnish powder that’s nearly twice the cost of domestic powders), and match primers (CCI). If you shoot with any frequency, you’ll see where you’ll either get to come out ahead, or just get to shoot twice as much or more. Remember, I’m constructing premium ammo, and you can cut the cost of what I do in half again if you’re just putting together some cheap (but good!) ammo for plinking.

    /Shooter


  29. Matt,

    Glad to help with the reference. Silhouette with AR’s looks like fun.

    RE: expert learning, I’ve been kicking myself all evening for being so crusty, so please accept my apology. I like that definition of expertise — wish all experts (not to mention “expert systems”) lived up to it:).

    BTW, once I get my stockpile of good pellets built up, the Walmart selection won’t be too tempting, but I fear I’ll never give up trying to get the Golden Bullets to shoot at least as well as CCI’s…


  30. henry

    Yes, I saw the film and enjoyed it, but it’s not nearly as good as the book. Did you see the scene at the end where Swagger who is supposedly under guard and wearing an orange jumpsuit magically produces a live .50 caliber round to snap into his rifle and clear his name?!

    Not only can Hunter tell a mean action story, but the guy really knows about shooting. He’s full of information about building your pyramid of bone in your shooting position, letting half your breath out, using the front sight as the cornerstone for building the church (sight picture). It’s embarrassing how much of my shooting technique is drawn from his books, and there’s a lot of other stuff about saboting rounds, laser-cut necking of handloads and so on.

    The Soviet sniper appears in a sequel to the Point of Impact/Shooter book. The prepping of his shot is quite the epic wherein he buys his MatchKing bullets, works up handloads, practices like a maniac, low-crawls a thousand yards with giant sandbags and holds out for days to make his shot. You’re almost pulling for him…. Anyway, I would recommend the whole series.

    Matt61


  31. /Shooter

    These prices are pretty sweet and I am quite appalled at the prices of high-power ammo. It’s not the guns that are the expense; it’s the darned ammo. My plan is to refine my shooting skills by running as many pellets as possible through my airguns and then just test out my firearms skill with surplus and a little bit of match grade factory ammo.

    But we’ll see. I’m sure I wouldn’t be the smartest guy who has handloaded, but I hope I wouldn’t be the stupidest…. :)

    Matt61


  32. bg_farmer

    Nothing to apologize for. Your general point about the amount of hot air in scholarship is probably right.

    And the fact is, with my budget orientation, I’m hardly one to sneer at Wal-Mart equipment. I just couldn’t resist one of my favorite quotes by B.B.: “Stop buying your pellets from Wal-Mart and waiting for a miracle that isn’t going to happen. Buy some quality pellets and good target paper…” :)

    Matt61



  33. Al,

    You can turn this around. Make YOURSELF the guy to contact, by going on several of the forums and announcing that you are looking for other 10-meter shooters in the Chicago area to form a 10-meter club.

    B.B.



  34. Alan,

    Let’s get this straight: I don’t think the Viper Express is a good air shotgun. Of the 20 or so air shotguns that I know about, only the Fire 201 .25 caliber shotgun ever delivered on the promise and even it is too small to be serious.

    I guess it depends on what you expect an air shotgun to do. They certainly cannot take game on the fly.

    Here are some blogs I did about air shotguns:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/12/air-shotguns-part-5-yewha.html

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/10/air-shotguns-part-1-farco.html

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/10/air-shotguns-part-3-crosman-trapmaster.html

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/11/two-more-air-shotguns-paul-and-vincent.html

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/10/air-shotguns-part-2-fire-201.html

    B.B.


  35. B.B,

    I have been reading you blog for about a month now. Great information. I have learned a lot. I took your advice on scope mounts for a RWS model 36. Ordered the 17101 B square from Pryamidair guns the mount will not tighten on 11 mm rail. Called pyramidair but no one seemed to want to help me. So I ordered the same mount from another distributor and had the same problem. Can not seem to get anywhere. I need some advice. Can you help????



  36. Anonymous,

    If you take the mount screws off of the mounts you can flip the mount jaw to allow for a different fit. All of the mounts that I have seen are built this way. So see what fits, lines up the best.

    I have set of those mounts in front of me but unfortunately my rws has a scope mounted to it.

    Be easy on those small set screws or you may bugger up and ream out the holes that they fit into before you get your mounts adjustments set.


  37. BB,
    The mount will not tighten on the rail,the four screws are bottomed and the mount is not even being to tighten.It appears as if B square has the wrong mount in box.


  38. BB,
    This is a one piece mount, and I tried flipping the bottom jaw around on both mounts.It looks like this is a mount designed for a Wedley rifle with a 11.7 mm rail


  39. Scope mount,

    Well it wouldn’t be unheard of for them to get the wrong mount in the box, but it cannot be for a Webley, or there would be two bumps on the bottom that serve as scope stops. You would have noticed that.

    I suppose it could really be a BSA mount (17501) they are quite a bit larger and would do what you describe. No clamping jaw alone is going to fix it, if that is the case. You need a whole new mount.

    (800) 433-2909

    The 17101 adjusts from 9.5 to 13 mm and I have used it at nearly all those widths. It does tighten correctly.

    Call B-Square customer service and get them to make it good. Or go back to your dealer if you can. That is one of the good things about doing business with Pyramyd Air.

    B.B.


  40. bb,

    you could test tho barrel length/ pop theory with your talon ss. I cant because i don’t have a gun with adjustable power AND the ability to swap barrels. all you have to do is set the power to say 800fps with the 12 inch barrel and then turn the wheel down until you get the same peed with the 24 inch barrel.


  41. BB,
    I called Pyramid they did not seem to want to get me the correct mount so I returned it.I order the same mount from another distributer and have the same problem. I tried calling B sqare and no one answers.the other ditributer could not give me much of an answer either.I guess I’m left using the Beeman adjustable mount, it’s a high profile I wanted a medium adjustable mount.





  42. /Shooter

    The book that the movie is based on is called Point of Impact. Bob Lee Swagger is the main character who appears in a whole series of novels.

    Matt61


  43. RWS Diana 36,

    There is something fishy here. One mount may be mismarked – but not two!

    How old is your model 36? The production month and year are on the left rear of the spring tube.

    I’m wondering if you have a standard rifle, of if your scope base has been made smaller. It should measure about 0.447″ across the top flat of the scope base. Does it? Because the 17101 is a great fit on all these airguns.

    Something fundamental isn’t right about this, and I want to get to the bottom of it.

    B.B.



  44. BB,
    The year on the model 36 is 08/86.
    I’m pretty certain that the mounts are incorrect,other 11mm mounts work fine on this gun. Right now I have a Beeman 30mm mount on it,
    just not adjustable.I was hoping someone at Pyramid would have checked the packageing, like the one I sent back and let me know what the problem was. Better yet just send me correct mount.


  45. Hey BB!

    Really enjoy reading this and all the good info you provide. There is always something good to learn on this site!

    A quick question, but which might lead to some discussion….

    Do you have any insight that you can share on moly-treatment for airgun barrels (and other airgun parts, for that matter)? What are the benefits and pitfalls; what various treatment methods are available; if you do it, what pretreatment is advised; and so on.

    Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

    DaveK


  46. DaveK,

    I have done some testing with moly treatment for barrels and pellets and can find no benefit to it whatsoever. We already shoot pure lead, which is self-lubricating. If we shot copper-jacketed ammo, moly might help, but from my test results, it’s a waste of time and money.

    B.B.


  47. B.B. How does the Gamo Whisper plastic end piece come off in order to remove the aluminum scope rail? Could the aluminum rail be replaced with the B-Square 17011 11mm-11mm Riser Base? This base is listed in Pyramyd’s accessories. I would like the additional height with such a unit.

    Thank you.


  48. The Whisper end piece falls off when the rifle is out of the stock.

    You want to remove an aluminum scope base to replace it with an aluminum scope base? Does that make any sense?

    B.B.


  49. BB,
    Hope it doesn’t sound like I was dumping this mount problem on you.
    After reading this blog I thought
    I finally had a solution to probelms I’ve been chasing for years,{mounts moving,scopes shifting from being over adjusted}.Thank You for sharing your whealth of knowledge, this truely is priceless. This has been alittle frustrating thinking I finally had the answer and now can’t seem to get the correct mount.I measured the rail and it is correct, the mount measures larger with mounting screws tighten. Nowhere even close to 9.5mm as advertised.It appears as if alot of people are going to get wrong mount or maybe it’s just my luck. At this point might just wait on the new Leapers base that you’ve been writing about.Thanks again



  50. B.B. I did not know the B-Square was aluminum! And no,the end piece does not fall off when the stock is removed. Respectfully.


  51. Hi BB,
    Please clarify, You’ve said a new one pc. scope rings for RWS rifles
    will be availlable soon, does it come with a new base too? if so, how do you remove the existing RWS mount? as I can not find any suitable philips srew driver to fit the screws RWS put on them.

    Hank


  52. bb,

    yes, the pop theory. You would use your talon ss with a 24 inch barrel and then a 12 inch barrel and compare the firing behavior. You would have to set the power output to the same level for both barrels, not the same number power setting, as the barrel will make the gun more powerful. same speed – just a function of how you get there.



  53. Henry,

    Okay, that sounds like a decent experiment. It would be titled, “How a longer barrel affects velocity and shot count in a Talon SS.”

    Thank you for explaining. I will do it.

    B.B.


  54. Hank,

    I never said the new base was new RINGS. It is a new BASE, only. Nothing comes off the rifle. The new base goes on and Weaver rings attach to it.

    I will explain everything when it comes out.

    B.B.



  55. Henry,

    Okay, what specifically am I to look for in the firing behavior? Noise? Recoil? Please don’t say accuracy, because that’s a different test (can’t do both accuracy and velocity on every shot).

    B.B.




  56. BB,

    I have two reasons to think the short barrel will have more recoil.
    1- when gun has the 12 inch barrel it will have to strike harder to reach the same power. You will feel the harder strike more.
    2- the fact that the acceleration is greater to reach the same speed and there for there will be more of a pulse

    thanks bb!


  57. BB,

    1. Are 10m competition guns subject to the same strict travel restrictions when importing and carrying on checked baggage?

    2. Is 10m shooting always with open sights and optics not permitted? I have blurred vision at that distance but i can see clearly when reading a book.

    Thanks.

    Dave


  58. Dave,

    Yes, 10 meter competition guns are subject to the same restrictions as all other guns. Remember that outside the U.S. most countries vies airguns the same as firearms, and about half of them do not permit their people to own firearms at all.

    Glasses or contact lenses are permitted in competition, but I don’t think optical sights are. Gehmann makes a rear diopter for prescription correction in the aperture. That may be permitted. Scott Pilkington at pilkguns.com will know for sure, as he is the U.S. Olympic airgun repairman.

    B.B.






  59. FYI, that last pic of an SSP is indeed a Walter LG90. The only difference to mine appears to be a wood cocking handle whereas I have a rubber one.



  60. I had an anschutz 250 with the same crack problem. Could it be caused by shooting too long with empty oil damper? Oil demper was eaten away a bit too on the outside..


Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.


+ 7 = 13

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>