By B.B. Pelletier
Before we begin, some announcements. All you who have been waiting for .22 caliber round balls, Gamo has come to the rescue. Pyramyd expects to get them in July, so get your orders ready. Be sure to lay in a good supply, as you never know when they’ll be out of stock again!
We have one student for the Field Target course in August. Wayne will drive all the way from Ashland, Oregon, to Cleveland if we’re able to hold the first course this year. I need a few more definite students before I can get this course off the ground, so please check in if you think you can come. I’m tentatively thinking about holding it August 18 through 22, but that’s not locked down, yet. Please let us know if you think you can come this year.
Today, we’ll start our look at Ruger’s Air Hawk Elite. One of our readers asked if this rifle is a copy of the RWS Diana 34. At the time I said I didn’t think so, but now that I look at it, it seems to be similar – though it has some differences as well. I didn’t look at it that carefully at the SHOT Show, but now I have one to test thoroughly.
This is the upscale model that comes with a 3-9X40 scope and mounts, so there’s nothing but pellets to buy. Hopefully, I’ll be able to tell you which ones after this test. All Ruger rifles are available as .177 caliber only at this time. If they’re successful, I would think, at some point, they’d bring out a .22.
Selling at $180, the Air Hawk Elite is positioned against the RWS Diana 34 Panther, except that the Panther costs $7 more and doesn’t come with a scope. It is, however, a formidable gun to take on, so many shooters will be watching this one. Actually, since it comes with a large muzzlebrake and a scope, I guess it’s positioned against the RWS Diana 34 Meisterschutze Pro, so the price difference is much greater.
The stock
The stock is an ambidextrous thumbhole that you will either like or not. I’m not a fan of thumbholes as a rule, but this one doesn’t seem too bad. It isn’t as large as many that have come to market recently, and I can get used to it. The wood looks like beech and is as well fitted and finished as anything Europe makes. The black ventilated recoil pad is also fitted very well.
The trigger
The adjustable trigger looks similar to a Diana T05, with one major difference. The blade is METAL. It’s as if someone who knows the American airgun market was listening to all those complaints. It’s a small feature to add, but one that will win Ruger a LARGE vote of confidence from the average airgunner. I’ll report on the trigger-pull in the second report, but I’ll tease you by saying I’m surprised how light and smooth it is!
The safety comes on automatically when the rifle is cocked, but it’s located in a place at the center of the end cap where the thumb can release it easily. Also, this rifle can be uncocked by pulling the trigger and riding the barrel closed.
Metal finish
I have to stop to remind myself that this rifle is made in China, because I cannot really see any difference between it and a German-made Diana. The metal is all nicely polished and deeply blacked. This is a rifle of which you can be proud.
Muzzlebrake
A large hand-filling muzzlebrake provides a convenient handhold when cocking the rifle. It’s decorative, only, and does nothing to quiet the rifle. But this is a spring rifle that needs little quieting.
No scope stop!
They cut the 11mm dovetails directly into the mainspring tube, but they didn’t put a scope stop on the gun! In the year 2008, with everything we know about spring guns, this is an unforgivable oversight! No amount of clamping pressure alone will stop a scope from slipping on these rails, and something will have to be done. I ‘ve had readers recommend BKL scope mounts as a solution. Since my numerous phone calls and emails to the company went without an answer, I won’t recommend them. There needs to be a positive mechanical scope stop put on this rifle. I will test it with the mounts they sent and see if they can hold on tight enough. A simple hole drilled into the spring tube or a metal plate held on with a metal screw would have sufficed. How could they have overlooked that?
Ball-bearing breech detent
Just like the Diana 34, the Air Hawk has a ball-bearing breech detent, which means the rifle opens and closes like a dream. The cocking link is articulated, which is different than the Diana 34. Instead of a metal bridge on the underside of the mainspring tube, they used channels in the stock to hold the link parallel to the spring tube. There’s a pronounced crack as the barrel is first broken, so hunters will have to be careful it doesn’t spook their quarry.
Next stop is the chronograph.
BB, I’ve had both guns apart and yes, the Ruger is certainly a copy of the Diana. It is not quite a clone, as there are are a few differences the articulated cocking link as you noted, the piston stroke is 5mm less on the Ruger, and the spring is slightly different (a little softer).
The one I had was very poorly made, however. Manufacturing quality was nowhere near Diana’s with poor stampings, rough edges, and so on. I’ll be real curious to how yours performs.
Vince,
I probably won’t take this one apart. From the outside, though, it is a real looker. And it cocks easily. The trigger is also easy, though I don’;t know how adjustable.
Accuracy and power are my principal concerns.
B.B.
Hey B.B.,
Is there any gun, that you can says is a good substitute for an R9? Im not saying replace it, but as a good understudy? Im looking to get an R9, but dont really want to spend $400+ to get an air rifle with that kind of performance. I just cant justify it. I have heard good things about the Tech Foce line. Is there anything else? Thanks,
Brody
B.B.
I guess I am one of the few who does not like the rws34….the one I got seems a dud…shoots in the 600s’ instead of the 800 it is supposed to.
I hate the barrel droop, the 34 with scope that was sent to me, could not be made to work. I went thru 3 adjustable mounts that broke, before I gave up…I am waiting for the leepers base..
So does the ruger have barrel droop with adjustable mounts to fix it…that will break also.
Come on folks sign up for the class…
Wayne,
Brody,
The Gamo Whisper is great for half the money. The RWS Diana 34 Panther is equally great for less than half.
Neither gun has a Rekord trigger, though.
You might look at the B26, which is an R9 clone. It has a copy of the Rekord
B.B.
Wayne,
Don’t know yet. Wait for it.
B.B.
B.B. & brody
B.B. have you tested or tried the Beeman “sportman” line made in china..I bought 2 of the 1000fps #1100 at walmart for $124 with a poor scope, when I went back for more, it had been replaced with the dual cal. (which I think is crap)…any way…
so I bought the similar RS1 in .177 from PA for $160 and just got the ss1000 in .22 last friday with a .22 cal falcon…just to compare….
The ss1000 is smaller, smoother, much easier to cock and shoot straight, but of course it shoots .22 cal hobbys at 788 avg., which is fast enough for me, instead of 954 for the falcon, but I can’t get either a loose or firm hold to work with the falcon…I am all over the place with my groups, and the scope won’t stay put on the falcon…it’s going back…its a great gun, just to big for me…it beat me up testing it…and won…if your a big strong dude, watch for a perfect, used falcon at PA.
These Beemans made in china seem to hold up well, over 5,000 shots on one of them and it is smoothing out nicely both in the trigger and firing..I can shoot 3/4″ groups indoors at 60′ with them, out of the box within 1 hour (which seldom happens for me with barrel droop models….
I think maybe they got a good factory going over there. They are making some decent “cheap” rifles.
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne,
No, I haven’t tested the Sportsman line from Beeman. Like the AR 1000, I think. That’s a very nice airgun.
B.B.
BB
Can you recommend a springer or a single pump rifle for plinking and informal target shooting? I enjoy shooting at pop cans and paper in the back yard at 20m and in the basement at 10m. I wanted a Beeman HW30, but they are out of stock until end of July (what’s up with that?)
I am 6’2″, so a rifle long enough to avoid neck strain. Also, could you recommend a scope to go with it?
Thanks,
Marc
B.B.
Who makes the AR1000, is it made at the same factory in china?
Wayne
B.B.
I just got an email from Glenn at Umarex, (thanks again for the lead on the discontinued rws 94 that I love way more than the rws34)…
He said that a new mount from RWS is coming out sometime this week, that will “do away with the difficulties of keeping a scope secured on our powerful springers. It’s the RWS Lock Down”
What do you think?…
Wayne,
Thanks wayne, and B.B.,
I still havent decided, in fact, ive just added more choices to the list. Doea anyone know of a super accurate gun that is capable of squirrel and rabbit sized game up to 50 yds. that is under $400? i know its a tall order, but if there isnt anything, then thats okay, i will just have to make more money. lol. Thanks again,
Brody
brody,
Boy, your right, that might be a tall order…If you can handle it the falcon should be strong and accurate enough…if you can get the hold down..it beats me up to much to practice that long.. I think the eye relief and scope mounting issue is also something to consider….
If you can allow for the drop, I think the discovery might work for you…it is the most fun to own and shoot of all the guns I have tried so far….but 50yrds….if the prey is on the ground, I’ll still grab my marlin .22 semi-auto rim fire.
Wayne,
Marc,
What’s up with the HW 30 is Beeman has stepped in and taken over all HW distribution in the U.S. They add one more layer of complexity to the ordering process, and they order when THEY are ready, not when Pyramyd places the order.
As for an alternative, you want a nice spring breakbarrel? Try the Gamo Whisper or the RWS Diana 34 panther. Both are great rifles.
For a scope I’d suggest a Leapers 3-9 for the distance you want to shoot. Which one doesn’t matter as they are all good. Get the one you like best.
B.B.
Wayne,
Shanghai Industrial Company makes the AR 1000.
B.B.
Wayne,
You are right, if i can handle it. Its a big gun. Im an Average teen. 5’5″ 15 yrs. about 120lbs. you know i probably could handle it, but i dont want to try, not be able to, and have to send it back. not a risk i want to take. Yeah i prefer my Nylon 66 for the long shots, but i like air rifles in that when i get up at 7 and no one else is up, i prefer not to disturb them. thats why i like air rifles. but thanks again.
Brody
Wayne,
I believe the scope base Glenn is telling you about is the one I designed for Leapers. If that’s true, it’s a great one.
B.B.
Brody,
Yes. the Benjamin Discovery. It comes with a hand pump for less than $400.
B.B.
B.B.
Glenn called it a mount… but maybe he meant base….
I will write him back and check it out..
Wayne
Are there any Ruger emblems anywhere on the rifle?
B.B.
I’ll be interested to hear about the progress of this gun as another instance of Chinese manufacture.
Thanks for the Locktite info. Now I can say with other bloggers, “I have locktited my screws….” It works great. The screw stays in place and the rifle shoots with a nice solid thud and no buzzing whatsoever.
Wayne, if you’re on the hunt for good rifles while keeping your costs down, you might consider the BAM series from China. Have a look at the blog on the BAM B40 which is a copy of the TX200. I’ve found those results borne out with my own experience with the B30.
On the subject of lead poisoning, you might want to consider the N-95 surgical mask–reputed to be the best on the market and equipped with various filters. I researched it for a friend who has respiratory problems. I don’t think it’s necessary for shooting but I do wear it while cleaning out my pellet trap. It can’t hurt and slips imperceptibly into my shooting routines.
Matt61
I thought I would mention that I am now the happy owner of a sniper rifle. Thanks to all for your support and encouragement. And why not have a bit of intrigue to go with picking up your gun. Due to transportation problems, I had to run the last couple of miles to make my appointment at the gun store. As I came stroking in, the place was dark, but knocking at the door produced the owner. His appearance was completely altered in the manner of Jason Bourne, probably to avoid angry customers. Also in the store overlooking the transaction was a very PO’d looking person who I’m guessing was the landlord who had to open up the place and has probably lost a ton of money on the gun store owner.
Whew, retail is a tough business. I don’t suppose that the owner is leading a very tranquil existence right now. But I couldn’t help thinking after the way I felt about losing what is basically a budget rifle how it must feel to lose a whole inventory of guns–some of it really high-end stuff. That would scar you for awhile.
I’ve even had enough time to discover what an amazing hassle in cleaning that I’ve been able to avoid with airguns. There I was jamming an oversized patch down the barrel of the sniper rifle then dripping sweat as I put the cleaning rod millimeter by millimeter down the muzzle to avoid rubbing it as I dislodged the patch, then trying to clean from the breech again only to discover that my cleaning rod is too short.
Anyway, after much research I think I have the cleaning process figured out except for one thing. How are you supposed to clean off your cleaning brush of solvent? Dry rag, some kind of solution? Thanks.
Matt61
Matt61.
Thanks Matt….yes I got the B30 side lever…but I only shot it 200 rounds, because I gave to one of our members to test and he has not brought it back yet…..maybe that is a good sign….I liked it a lot…too heavy for hunting, but a great, smooth, target rifle with a rest…….
I am considering a B40 to compare to the TX200 carbine I ordered over the weekend……..
got to practice before I go to the gun club class… Hey sign up folks…..
With your encouragement, I guess I will go for it, even though it is not that much more for the real thing…but who knows how long the TX200m111 will be on back order…they always seem to slip the delivery date back…..
and to compare the longer barrel B40 to the 200 in the carbine could be very interesting…….
So thanks for helping get off the fence……..
Wayne
Emblem,
Yes, the Ruger logo is lazered on the spring tube. I’ll show it next report.
B.B.
Matt61,
ONLY YOU would ask how to clean solvent off a brass bore brush! You don’t, is the simple answer. You put it into your gun cleaning box all grungy and it stays that way forever. Believe me, the barrel won’t notice the difference.
Congratulations of finally getting the rifle. Have you learned not to look for bargain guns anymore? That could have been an expensive lesson, and it can still be a good lesson if you take it to heart.
Stop looking for bargains and start looking for dealers you can look in the eye. There is a reason this guy was hard to locate, and economy wasn’t it.
B.B.
The Man,
Have you looked on the AirForce website for those CO2 velocities? Because that’s where I put them.
Look at the first Web article under Media on the site.
Yes, a CO2 tank will drop you down to the 15 foot-pound region, but I can’t tell whether you object to the power or the noise. Because it it’s just the noise, a bloop tube from Airhog will quiet your rifle to almost nothing.
B.B.
noise is not a concern. My air rifle has made me the mayor of my neighborhood, nobody objects to the pest holocaust I have rained down on them. Its the power, I had a kodiak pass clear through the skull of a ground hog at 40 yards, too dangerous to shoot a bird with houses on the other side. thanks for the info, do you have numbers on the micro meter as well? I still have the stock hammer weight in the condor, is that a problem? I assume it ups my numbers a little over the talon, as long as its not hurting anything im fine with it. thanks again.
the man
The Man,
All the numbers you want are in the same article. There is no adjustment with the MM tank. It’s pretty much running at full power all the time.
Your striker weight does very little to boost power with the standard air tank. It’s the long barrel that does it all.
B.B.
Yes sir, I see that now, God you have a ton of patience. Good articles and thank you for the information. if I read correctly, the CO2 and the MM tanks give about the same velocities for the condor, at least, the difference is neglible. so it comes down to whether you want HPA or CO2, for me I think CO2 would be the way to go. I’m assuming of course that CP’s were used in both tests. Thanks again man, this gun is so unbelievable. The versatility is off the charts.
The Man,
Yes, I always use Crosman Premiers when testing AirForce airguns. I was their technical director for three years, and I still write about them a lot.
B.B.
thanks bb,
Ill givm a try bb. Thanks. LED’s are the way to go. If the light my mom beat the door with was LED, it would not have failed.
Is velocity more important than accuracy?
……..is this a trick question? If the pellets not moving, accuracy is not so important… I have my answer. LOL
BB,
That scope groove looks like the Shanghai type. Is this Ruger made by BAM or Shanghai or somebody else? If its Industry, they seem to have really stepped up their woodwork and blueing quality.
Read your comment with great interest regarding Beeman’s ordering policy. It’s a shame that pyramyd can’t cut out the middleman and order directly from Weihrauch.
In regards to Marc’s lament about not being able to get an HW30 until July, he should try other airgun outlets who may have the gun in stock.
If he has to wait the HW30 is worth waiting for. I picked up the last HW30 from Pyramyd, it’s a fantastic little rifle.
BG_Farmer,
Shanghai (Industry Brand) can do very good work when someone is willing to pay for it. Their AR 1000 is proof of that.
I don’t know who is making this rifle, but even if it’s BAM, it’s a cut beyond what they have done in the past
B.B..
Vulcanator,
Weihrauch sees Beeman as a large client. They like doing business with one large client, rather than 10 smaller ones.
Pyramyd would actually out-order Beeman on some models, but overall, they do order a lot more than Pyramyd, because they buy their R-series rifles, of course.
B.B.
Vulcanator & Marc
Yes the HW30 is a super little power house, the most accurate I have shot under $300, it really shoots the 675fps that is advertises, it is so smooth to cock and shoot, great trigger, great balance, nice looking, solidly built, B.B. says it is good for a million shots with proper care……… my favorite gun to shoot along with the discovery…….
Sorry, I may be the culprit who bought the last 4 that PA had for my rifle range…….. I could part with one since the price did not go up like I heard it was going to from another supplier…maybe PA is such a big player that Beeman did not raise the price for them…any way, let me know if you just can’t wait, I did not mean to leave them short…I won’t be opening for a while yet….same price, plus $20 for shipping.
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range.
B.B.
Just heard back from Glenn at Umarex that it is a new product from RWS, the “RWS Lock Down”…weird name..Glenn does not give a lot of info when he writes……
so I know nothing about it, but if you call them I’ll bet they tell you all about it.
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne,
I’ve been tracking this development since Feb, when Adam Blaylock told me they were bringing out a “new mount. I believe it is the base I developed.
B.B.
BB,
As far as the HW30 being out of stock – PA recommends Beeman R7. Is it worth the 200.00 price difference?
Wayne – thank you for the offer. Can you send me your e-mail address. I am interested and would like to discuss this with you.
Thanks!
Marc
Marc,
You have asked a very difficult question. Because just 12 months ago, the R7 sold for $315. Then it was worth the price because it has a Rekord trigger. I was so shocked by Beeman’s price increase, which is no doubt due to the dollar slipping against the Euro, that I would say, no, it isn’t worth the difference.
However, you can’t get an HW 30 from Canada with a Rekord trigger because theirs are all sub 500 f.p.s. guns.
So – what are you going to do?
B.B.
B.B.
Gee, so that’s why there’s no information about cleaning bore brushes. Well, a bit of simplicity is very refreshing.
As for the bargain guns, I don’t know. I may be in the grip of a fetish. But perforce I will have to spend for the next purchase. My new gun place priced out the Smith & Wesson SW1911 at $1200! And it looks like the Winchester universal cleaning kit with the sectional brass cleaning rods will have to go in favor of a whole new set from Dewey. No danger of economy there. On the bright side, the Dewey people were very good to work with and the mounts I got from B-Square work great, so my faith in the gun world is restored.
Wayne, I’ll be interested in further impressions of your B-30 when you get it back. And you might want to get a website going. That’s the only way I found PA.
Matt61
BB,
Of course there’s a scope stop – where the dovetail grooves end, the scope stops!
I do like your/Leaper’s new base; its exactly what I predicted/expected. At $17.50, a bargain. Flexibility to switch between 1″ and 30mm with a ring swap is great. What made you decide on 57 moa worth of compensation? Most Diana’s I’ve owned have about 1/2 that amount of ‘droop’.
Communication with BKL on a direct basis is notoriously difficult. However, their 6-screw, single piece, 260 series mount holds on my Patriot and my 350 without any mechanical stop.
If the Field Target course were compressed into a fly-in-Friday night, fly out late Sunday evening deal – I could do it, and would seriously consider the adventure.
B.B.
That makes sense about the “mount” from rws, but is the time frame about them being out this week for real, cause PA still has them out a while, don’t they?….
Matt61,
Who knows when, or if I’ll get it back, I had to let that guy go, (not a team player) I will probably have to get a new B-30…
A website is way down the road…still testing guns and ideas…
Marc,
I’m not going to make a regular thing of this, but I have a few boxes that my guns came in…so I can ship one to you…I’m not setup to re-sell in a physical way yet…It just sounded like you wanted one so bad, and I would not have cleaned out PA if I had known the price was not going up on the next shipment…I can wait to replace it..
wayne.burns@naturalyards.com
Robert,
I agree, my heart sank when I read that one, but…we can’t control what others do…&… in America freedom of speech right……
But I would suggest that “The Man” check for sure about what is legal to shoot…Starlings, (imported nest robbers) are the only birds I shoot……hey…. “The man” go for all of them you want… I’ll even pay you .05 per head if you promise not to shoot any others………just sort of kidding……..someone should pay to rub out the starlings.
Wayne,
Shadow express dude
Brody-
The benjiman discovery, the super streak, and the walther falcon hunter are the best. I have had great experience with the shadow express (not for 50 yards pellets or shells),the RWS34, the RWS 460, the remington summit, (oddly enough proven time and time at 50yards) the remington 77 and even the economical phantom 1000. My personal favorite hunting weapon is the shadow express and the remington summit. What to look for is pointability, comfort, power, accuracy and most of all, quality parts. Things like stealth and knockdown power are a luxury. Accuracy is the sole reason the remington 77 can hit a critical area. Pointability is what makes the Shadow express such an exellent bird gun. The RWS 34 is the standard gun, but people buy it because it is cheap,yet proven to last. Tell me your desision, I’m interested
Shadow express dude
BB, I’ve just been left bewilderd, again. This time I was at the Umarex websight, some of there airsoft guns are EXACTY the same as some of the new Crosman soft air guns. This is not the first time I’ve seen this, crosman is about to come out with some signature series (professional) soft air guns that copy UTG and cybergun’s guns EXACTLY. What does all this mean? A monopoly in a sense.
B.B.
You can order full power guns from Canada. They are available for export or maybe for use in Canada with a Firearms license. Being the owner of several from Canada I am very familiar with them. I Chrony them all also, they are not 500 fps. They offer things like an FT version of the HW30S (rekord trigger) with no sights in black and nickel finish. Nothing like that in the states. Also, they carry the HW35 and so on, if you want something different. Downside is the order to delivery time is in the months.
Don’t let the poor communication with BKL dissuade your opinion. I use the BKL 260 mount on my RWS 48 and have not had a problem with the scope moving. BKL makes a fine product.
Andy
B.B.
I had asked about the short Beeman scopes. I cannot find a used SS2 anywhere, so I will get the Leapers you suggested. Silly, but I had just wanted to re-create the image I have of
of the small Beeman scope or an HW. thanks for your help.
BB
You were so enthusiastic on your original post about the Baikal 61. My last post with guestions about the availability and if this gun will could be a collector’s piece were not answered. Pa has had this gun featured on their website for about 6 months and still is back ordered. What gives? Is this gun really a gift from you to us?
No offense.
Jwb
Matt61,
If you are using a copper solvent like Sweets or Hoppe’s #9 in a powder gun you may want to rinse your bore brush with a little water before you put it away. After sitting for awhile the brush will either fall apart or one side will loose the bristles. If you only use it with JB or Ballistol you dont need to worry.
Sam
Oh… I just looked at the R7 on PA to see what the fuss was. WOW…congratulations to those that bought one before the “bump” in price.
B.B.,
–Thumb Hole Stock–
I’ve never tried one. Are they just not your cup of tea, or do they have some real negatives?
And what about pistol grip style rifle stocks like the Condor?
Thanks,
Lloyd
Hw30 or R7, at the current prices its no contest-get the 30. The 30 makes the same power as an R7 and is just as accurate. Mine shoots 3/4″ groups with open sights at 25yds. You could send your 30 to Beeman for a super tune and trigger job and still come out a $100 better than the R7!
Robert,
You’re right about the birds. I saw it and thought it was wrong, then I left it.
It’s gone.
B.B.
Stewve,
There are actually two new bases. To get the droop I tested several Diana guns. The bases were to correct actual observed droop. The 34 base has the greatest droop and the 460 base has less.
I will be blogging them soon.
B.B.
Wayne,
The expected delivery of the new base is July, and that’s in a few weeks.
RWS USA will get them about the same time, give or take.
B.B.
Crosman airsoft,
I don’t understand your question.
What are you asking?
B.B.
Canada 30S,
Thanks for that, but no links to other dealers on this blog, please.
B.B.
Andy,
The problem with BKL is they don’t conduct business properly. I cannot recommend a source that doesn’t operate in a professional manner. It happens often enough by accident.
B.B.
JWB,
No offense taken. I just forgot to answer you. I get about 50 questions each day that have to be answered and I misplaced yours.
Yes, the 61 is a fine gun. It isn’t collectible because it’s still being made, though supplies are sometimes hard to get.
Have your read my blog on it?
/blog/2007/9/izh-61-part-4-new-gun-now-were-cookin/
B.B.
Lloyd,
Thumbhole stocks are not my taste. Neither are stocks with pistol grips like the Condor.
B.B.
BG farmer – you should really try one of the HW guns, especially with a JM
Tune kit. You could install it yourself. It has nothing to do with putting on airs. I would recommend the HW50S or an HW80S. PA just had the 80’s but looks like they sold out quickly. I am guessing you are a big guy, so the HW30S would be a tad small on you.
Before I would buy any Air Gun from China, there would have to be no others made any place else in the world. China is currently under investagation by the US Goverment and several others for producing and dumping on the market cheaply made STEAL and IRON, that does not meet the specs as laid down by the US Goverment. There have been several cases’ reported of Steal Piping being used on major construction projects, just to find out after being X-Rayed that there are flaws in the Steal used. I for one, would not want to be shooting any gun, let alone a presurized Air Gun just to have it blow back in my face. Remington makes great Fire Arms, why they went to China as a source for making their new product line is to me far beyond reason. Look at Boing Air Craft, China was and is making the Tail Section for their new 787 Air Craft, and because of work menship problems, Boing is still at least a year away from getting their new Air Craft on line. Makes you wonder why a great Gun Maker, sent their work there.
BB,
It is A shame that there was not foresight enough to have the receiver drilled with A scope stop.
You’ve had that problem before and always came up with A fix.
You reversed the one piece mount and hung the stop pin in front of the RWS mount, had the rear scope mount up against the receiver end cap and even had the end of the dovetail act as the stop. Any of those solutions work with the Ruger Air Hawk?
BobC NJ
BobC,
My plan is to back up to the rear of the dovetail and to also use a clamp-type scope stop behind the front ring. We’ll see if it’s enough.
B.B.
“Andy,
The problem with BKL is they don’t conduct business properly. I cannot recommend a source that doesn’t operate in a professional manner. It happens often enough by accident.
B.B.”
Point taken B.B. I can understand your frustration–especially when you tried to make contact with BKL.
I hope they change their practices and reach out to folks like yourself. You provide a wonderful service to the sport of airgunning.
Keep up the great work on the blog B.B. Your blog is the #1 reason I got involved with airgunning.
Andy
I’ve never tried it, but I’ve always wondered if a little abrasive (like valve grinding compound) placed in the receiver dovetails before clamping the mount into place wouldn’t solve the creep problem.
Valve grinding,
I’ve never tried it, either, but it might work. As long as the compound siezed the metal instead of lubricating it.
B.B.
Anonymous,
I intend to try an HW someday. Its not the putting on airs that worries me, because I can be as fancy as the next guy. I simply still don’t know enough about airguns to deserve a nice one yet. I’m learning my preferences: right now I really like underlevers in springers. Depending on my experiences with PCP’s, I might just buy a TX200 or HW97 for good. My tendency with “guns” in general is to have only what I like best and need.
Also, its been my experience with hobbies that expensive mistakes up front can limit the fun. As I said, it seems like I definitely prefer underlevers by a wide margin: had I started out with an expensive breakbarrel or sidelever, I think I might not have gotten the chance to know this much about my preferences.
Bg-farmer
I meant no offense in my previous post. I just really like the HW offerings.
I have an HW97 and indeed it is a nice rifle. I believe B.B. prefers the Air Arms over the 97 or even the HW77.
While the HW guns benefit from a tune, I understand the TX200 is closer to perfect out of the box. I have all mine tuned professionally eventually, so not an issue.
I will exclude the tuners name, since I got in trouble for posting a Canadian Dealer.
Some of my “stuff”:
/
Shadow express dude,
Crosman make airsoft guns as well. What I’m asking is “what is going on that everyone is making the same gun”. Don’t they have designers that can put new items on the market rather than copy someone elses idea.
Shadow Express dude,
Now I understand. What’s happening is every manufacturer (and Crosman doesn’t make the airsoft guns with their names on them – they buy them from a manufacturer) copies firearms So you will encounter 25 different versions on the M1911A1 and another 25 of the Beretta 92. Makers copy the firearms they think people want.
That’s what it is.
B.B.
“However, you can’t get an HW 30 from Canada with a Rekord trigger because theirs are all sub 500 f.p.s. guns.”
Hi B.B.,
Just to straighten out the rumour, in Canada we can get any Weihrauch rifle in the full power version. As an option, most Canadian HW dealers also sell the detuned versions for those who do not wish to write the simple test to obtain firearms… and airguns over 500fps.
The HW30 is available in Canada with the Rekord trigger. It’s called the HW30S. They have this model in full power form which matches the Beeman tagged R7. It’s also available in detuned form, with chopped mainspring, for those who do not wish to obtain a PAL (license).
The HW30S has the same metal as the R-7. However, the HW30S has the deluxe front sight with multiple inserts included. The HW30/HW30S stock have the same contours as the R7 version… less the checkering.
The HW30S is also available with a nickel finish on barrel and receiver tube (with black stock). It’s also available as a Junior Field Target rifle with a factory Weihrauch muzzle brake installed rather than sights.
Many shooters still think Canadians are stuck with 500fps air rifles. Some Canadian shooters have this limitation by choice. The simple test for the Possession and Acquisition License (PAL) takes 20-30 minutes and it’s rare to hear about anyone failing.
The HW dealer arrangement is a bit different in Canada. We don’t have an exclusive importer such as Beeman so dealers import on their own. I know of 5 or 6 HW dealers and price competition seems to keep things under control. This year, the HW30S (.177/.22) was sold for as low as $259Cdn.
Without an exclusive importer, we see Weihrauch models such as the HW25, HW35, HW50S, HW57, HW70, HW75, HW85… along with the others. Calibre selection is usually decent too (.177/.20/.22/.25).
It’s not all bad up here 🙂
canuck,
Thank you for setting the record straight. That 30S seems like a great deal.
B.B.
Shadow express dude
BB, your getting closer! The Crosman Stinger P312 is EXACTLY the same as the UTG Mk23, right down to the scilencers. Its almost like they hired the same desighners (a possibility). In the next month or so, crosman will introduce a new line called “the proffesional line. Which copies some of the Cybergun equipment.
Thanks for that info.
B.B.
Canuck,
Glad to see your posting. I tried to convey the same info by just posting a link, which was admittedly bad form on my part.
I am a US customer of some of the Canadian dealers, and enjoy the added and unique selection that is offered.
That said, if it is available in the States, I always lean that way as shipping costs, speed, and packaging are usually way better.
If you are one of the Canadian dealers-please double box!
(HW factory boxes are very flimsy affairs. I doubt they were ever intended to travel a thousand miles in the back of multiple trucks.)
As B.B. noted, the HW30S is a screaming value, since in the States we need to buy it as an R-7, with Beeman’s extra “taste”. Plus the Jr. FT version or the black and nickel are pretty cool variants.
Hi Anon,
Nope, I’m not a dealer. I’m just an ordinary shooter.
I can’t speak for the many Weihrauch dealers/importers in Canada but I had no problems with packaging on my product orders. I think we have at least 5 or 6 HW dealers up here. Some of them will even do special orders if you wish… nickel plated HW rifles, black stocks, factory installed, muzzle brakes, etc. Hmmm… a nickel plated .22 HW95 (aka R9) might be nice 🙂
Yep, the R7 and HW30S are the same rifles. Beeman had checkering added but they decided to forgo the deluxe front sight. The HW30S has the multiple insert feature in the deluxe sight tunnel. Everything else is the same. I guess the consumer gets to decide whether they want the deluxe sight or checkering on the grip. 🙂
Many times, Beeman’s extra “taste” is just a different product label. Many years ago, we saw different stock shapes between Beeman and Weihrauch tags but the stock contours seem to be the same these days. Same velocity, same accuracy, same stock, same metal, same manufacturer… different labels. Both name tags are wonderful airguns (Beeman/HW).
Cheers,
Canuck
To All,
I’m sure only B.B. will see this but it is also for Wayne and apparently Robert whose comment I did not get a chance to read, I wish I could have had his input or insult, either way.
At first I was a little bothered by the fact that my original question was deleted but this is B.B.’s blog not a public forum, if he doesn’t like the word peanut he can delete any comment that contains it, I do respect that. The only reason I specify my intended targets is to receive relevant advice, I felt “small game” would not have been clear enough. I’m sure that B.B. understands why I was so specific as giving advice is his profession and the more information he has the better the advice he can give.
I really just want to clarify the situation in my community and how we reached this point in our plan to control the wildlife population in it. We first held a meeting to discuss the problems we were having with ferry-diddles(chipmunk-sized squirrel) destroying peoples’ homes. We have a conservation officer in our neighborhood so he held the floor and presented all of our available options. We decided to go with the trapping and transfer option to humanely remove the ferry-diddles, chipmunks, ground hogs and O’possums. We also used different scents and mechanisms as well as screens and fences to deter them from entering our homes. Things seemed to be going very well for about six months. Then, a community member’s home caught fire and burned to the ground because ferry-diddles had chewed on the wiring in his ceiling, thankfully no one was home but, obviously, trapping was not working.
The community met again to discuss some of the other options. In the end, we decided to kill them, we are not going to risk our families or our homes or both for the sake of the wildlife. I grew up as an avid hunter but had given it up at a later age due to a change in my beliefs: I didn’t like the concept of stalking an animal in its natural habitat and then killing it when it is not bothering me purely for sport, that’s just me, I don’t eat them. I found it very ironic that I was selected as the shooter and not the conservation officer. This was due to the prime location of my property in relation to the main concentration of the pests. I’ll not go into details but I will say the program has been extremely successful. We’ve even consulted a local wildlife conservation specialist to install game cameras, take population counts and general population health. He also provides statistical information and kill recommendations so we don’t completely wipe them out. He found that when population levels were under a certain number that they did not need to infest our homes for shelter or food, they could survive on resources provided to them in the designated wooded area in the center of the community.
The newest pest dilemma has been building up for some time, there is more and more of them everyday. It’s getting to the point that they will swoop on your grill and take a flaming hot hamburger or hot dog if u leave it open longer than 15 seconds. We’re also finding “above normal averages” of dead birds from unknown causes in the community.
I only provide this information as I felt that some people who read my statements were under the impression that I was a bloodthirsty homeowner, which is not the case at all. It’s unfortunate that these measures our necessary but we see no other “reasonably affordable” alternative. I am aware that it offends many people just as I myself was deeply offended and distraught over Michael Vick’s actions. However, I have to do what is necessary. This is an airgun blog, people will comment about Field Target, plinking and hunting. I hope this provides a little insight on my statements. The really good thing about all this is it got me into airgunning and brought an Air Force condor into my life. Some members of the community are even talking about starting a friendly field target match, something that never would have been given a second thought before they saw the condor and other rifles that are available. I know I was surprised by what was available.
The Man
Thge Man,
Well-put. Maybe you and I are the only ones to see this right now, but over the years, new shooters will come along and these posts will be up for a long time. That’s why I pulled the other comments.
No harm done.
B.B.
Canuck
I agree whole-heartedly with the uniqueness of the Canadian HW offerings. But, will have to stand by my guns (pun intended) when it comes to shipping issues.
This year of the two HW guns I ordered from Canada, one arrived fine, however the neat little black and nickel HW30S has a horribly bent barrel. This is very disappointing after a two-month wait. Given the packaging, I was not surprised.
So by no means can I suggest ordering an easily US obtainable airgun from Canada – nevertheless if you want something out of the ordinary, don’t mind the wait or the gamble – go for it. (My chrony confirms they are full power versions)
Also, it doesn’t hurt to have an airgun smith on speed dial.
For the rest of the readers-
West Virginia travel info:
“Your campsite may also be visited by the native red squirrels, locally know as “ferry diddles”. They are aggressive little buggers and will boldly steal food from your camp. If you protest, you will be scolded and may wake up the next morning with a squirrel using your tent for a playground. They love to get above a tent, dive on it and slide down.”
The Man-
Dude, the issue was not hunting or pest control, but the fact that some birds animals are protected species.
I stated it would be any legal bird NOT woodpeckers, cardinals (state bird), etc. Ferry Diddles, Ground Hogs, Possums and chipmunks are not protected under the laws of any official season. They are considered varmints. Case closed, thanks.
The Man
I have a Tell 2 german made spring action pistol , its aneat little pistol and i would like further info , i have no access to blue book but guess someone here might?
ric_carlson@hotmail.com
Ric,
A Tell 2 in average shooting condition is worth $150-225.
B.B.
I just bought a Canadian version, (490 fps), Airhawk with the hope of modding it to full power, however, I cannot find the spring specs anywhere. Would someone here please tell me the free length, wire diameter, and pitch, (# of coils), of the 1000 fps version?
Thanks
BB,
About the BKL Mounts: it seems that BKL is now defunct, and it’s future and current status are ambiguous. Which burns me up, because I’ve spent the last three weeks trying to find a pair of their “301” mounts to mount on an Air Arms S410. I was attracted to the double straps, as well as the “Self Aligning” properties of them, as the lack of a moving clamp element seems to cause them to align with a rail automatically. I’ve been having trouble finding them, so I was wondering:
Do you know anything about them, and if so, would you recommend them? And also, apparently the B-Square Adjustable mounts are superb, but are they difficult to set up and adjust, and once installed, do they move at all on their own? This was part of what sort of scared me away from using them in the first place. And lastly, in your review of the S410, you used the high mounts and seemed to have a tremendous amount of clearance. Are there any advantages to having the scope a bit closer to the barrel than having it very high up? If I were to use the same adjustable mounts, but in medium height, would I still have clearance for the objective (a 50mm) and the rest of the scope? I’d be using an MTC Optics Viper 4-16×50, which has a 30mm tube.
Please, help me! I’ve been at this for WEEKS and am really getting irritated!
Zack
Zack,
If BKL is gone, they did it to themselves. Shooters loved their products, but the company was unresponsive as a business.
As for B-Square adjustable mounts, I have never had the problems you mention. Yes, they do require an understanding of how to mount them correctly, but I have already covered that in both articles and blogs. Once mounted correctly, I have never seen them loosen in operation, except one time. That was a scope that I mounted on dozens of different guns for testing. It finally did loosen, but I was able to correct it. The trunnion screws were not in the divots, which is always the problem on the mounts that move.
There are no advantages to having the scope low, unless the shooter doesn’t know how to sight in for different ranges. If they don’t, a lower scope does give a longer distance where the pellet trajectory is in convergence with the llne of sight, but ONLY if you use 20 yards as the initial intersection point.
You think that the scope rail on a particular gun is aligned with the bore? It isn’t. That’s why “self aligning features” are worthless. Any rifle – firearm or air-powered – is a crap-shoot. The owner has to determine whether the scope and bore are in alignment. Sometimes you luck out and other times you don’t. If you are not aware of this, you will be plagued with scope problems.
What you need for the S410 is a set of two-ring mounts. The location of the rifle’s magazine determines that for you. Have you EVER mounted a scope on this rifle? If so, what are the problems you encountered? Or are you just concerned by all you have read?
If the latter is the case, stop reading and get on with mounting the scope. Until you know the exact situation, it is fruitless to discuss hypothetical problems.
B.B.
BB,
That wasn’t really what I asked.
Yes, the latter is the case; this will sound UNBELIEVABLY stupid, but the truth is that I haven’t bought any of these items yet. See, I live in Hawaii, and I’m on something of a budget, and not only are the shipping costs of sending things out here quite high, but it takes forever for items to arrive, and, if unsatisfactory, to have replace. Not too long ago, I spent a month trying to acquire a new Super Streak, and then another two weeks or so trying to get it replaced after it showed up defective. I’ve wanted an S410 for a long time, and only now will my price range finally accommodate one. However, I also wanted to get some nicer equipment to accompany the rifle, so in all, it will still be a money stretch nonetheless.
I knew that I needed two piece mounts; the BKL 301s I mentioned ARE two piece mounts. And yes, I knew that bores and rails rarely, if ever, align properly. I figured, though, that since BKLs were so highly regarded as precise target shooting mounts, that they must have some commendable qualities. After all, people wouldn’t “love their products” if they didn’t. Retrospectively, it seems that the only thing these would have done would be eliminate the possibility of having rings that are misaligned with each other, by virtue of the design. As you’ve stated, the B-Squares resolve this problem as well, because they can move. I’m guilty of falling for hype to some extent, yes, but I consulted people online who own S410s and BKL 301 mounts, who told me they worked exceptionally. So, because of the existing expense constraints, all I could use was info from people like you and the folks at Pyramyd AIR and the other major air rifle warehouses and shops online; hypothetical is all I have to work with right now, so cut me a bit slack. If I knew, I wouldn’t have asked, and if I could find out on my own using the advice already available, I would.
And yes, I know how to sight in scopes at differing ranges, but because of where I live, I’m short of a good, flat, relatively still place to sight my rifles in to full exactness, but I don’t see that as a reason for me to not own the air rifles I have and to not buy and look into the air rifles I want. I have to work with what I have.
My question was whether or not the B-Squares were difficult to use or not, because I’m used to static mounts and I’ve never had a chance, nor a reason, to use adjustable mounts. My other question was whether BKL mounts lived up to their reputation, which, at least with airgun products it seems, often isn’t the case. You have said that they did, and Daystate has confirmed that they are gone now, so I can forget about those now anyway. I’ll start reading up more on the B-Squares now, which I would have done in the first place had I not thought that I would be getting the BKLs. I know you have covered the B-Squares before; all I wanted was a simple “yes, they are good” or “no, they are bad” and a “yes they are difficult to use” or a “no, they are easy to use”. Just a basic recommendation or detraction. And as for the question of height, all I was concerned about was the amount of holdover I would need to use at differing ranges, which I know can be affected by the height of the scope. The S410 does, after all, have a reputation of being an exceptional, outstanding long range plinking and hunting rifle, which is precisely what I am buying it for; I’ve seen guys consistently hit and shatter glass bottles at well over 100 yards, and trying to take a rifle sighted in for such long distances and use it for an unexpected, relatively short shot can be affected by the scope height. I have even found out about a way to modify the parallax wheel of many high powered scopes so that they are useable with the S410s odd sideways-protruding magazine.
Thanks for your time (and sorry for the length)
Zack
I just found this blog site so forgive me for what might be a too late response by now. However, I am currently experiencing scope creep problems on a Ruger Air Hawk as mentioned in earlier posts and haven’t seen a conclusive fix yet. I also wish to respond to Steve’s comment made back on June 16th about the Ruger scope stopping when it hits where the dovetail ends.
In my experience, when the scope mount hits the end of the rail, because of the shape of the rail’s groove the bottom ring mount rides up the back end of the groove causing the bottom scope mount ring to slant. The front part of the scope mount claw was actually pulling itself out of the groove. I had the mounting screws in tight, too. I’m using the rings that came with the gun. If I hadn’t caught it, I believe the mount would have actually popped off the back of the rail.
I believe Steve would be correct if Ruger had at least squared off the back end of the rail rather than leave a taper.
Anybody come up with a good scope stop solution yet or scope rings guarenteed not to slip? Can I safely grind the rail square myself. I don’t want to make it look ugly though.
Thanks, Chuck
Chuck,
The best solution would be a vertical stop pin or screw through the top of the scope rail.
B.B.
B.B., Thanks for the suggestion. How dangerous is it to drill a hole through the rail area for a stop pin? Will a hole compromise the piston chamber? Can a drill damage something in the piston chamber if it slips in too far?
-C
Vince,
Back in June you said you had the Ruger Air Hawk Elite apart. I don’t know how similar the compression chambers are between the Elite and the regular Air Hawk, but could you see enough to tell if drilling a hole at the back of the scope rail to put in a scope stop pin would damage anything inside the area where the drill hole would go?
Thanks, Chuck
Chuck,
You must disassemble the gun to drill the hole. Then clean the tube to remove the chips.
The hole will not compromise the air chamber because it is drilled behind the chamber.
If you have questions about this you should not drill the hole.
B.B.
B.B.
Thank you very much for your reply. You are such a valuable resource. It’s refreshing to have expert advise at my finger tips.
-Chuck
I just bought a ruger airhawk but not the elite, it has a scope stop on it. I think it's the same gun except for the thumb hole and the better scope. The scope on my airhawk is good enough for me though, it's a 4 X 32.
There are a few comments that this gun has barrel droop. Do all the air hawks have barrel droop? also what is the best way to fix barrel droop with this particular rifle.
All spring-piston airguns can have barrel droop. It6 is extremely common.
You correct for it with a scope mount that also droops.
B.B.