Webley Raider 10 – Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

Homework assignment first!
In part two of this report, I gave you a puzzle to solve. I asked you to calculate the average velocity of a 15.8-grain JSB Exact Jumbo pellet from the Webley Raider 10 using the data I presented for the other pellets.

First approach
As I saw it, there were two ways to approach this project. One way was simple. Just look at the average velocity of the 14.3-grain Crosman Premier, which was 796 f.p.s., and the average velocity of the 21-grain Baracuda Match, which was 692 f.p.s., and guess where the 15.8-grain JSB Exact would fall. I guessed between 750 and 760 f.p.s. I based that on the JSB being much closer in weight to the Premier and also being pure lead instead of the hard lead alloy of the Premier. I guessed that the JSB would go a little faster than its weight might indicate because pure lead is slipperier than lead alloy.

Second approach
The second method is to look at the energy of the Premier (20.12 foot-pounds) and the energy of the Baracuda (22.34 foot-pounds) and guess where the JSB will fall. Then, take that energy and calculate the velocity using the Pyramyd Air conversion table. I guessed the JSB would be about 21 foot-pounds (halfway between the Premier and the Baracuda), which works out to 773.58 f.p.s.

And the answer is…?
Reader Malan guessed the JSB would average 773 f.p.s., so he was closest of those who responded in the comments section. The actual average of the JSB pellet tested through a chronograph was 772 f.p.s.! See how much you can discover when you learn to apply some simple rules of airgun behavior?

On with the accuracy test
I finally got a day at the range to test the Webley Raider 10 rifle for accuracy. The wind wasn’t strong, but it was steady from the right at 5-10 m.p.h., with gusts up to 15 m.p.h. For that reason, I placed the targets at 35 yards instead of farther. Even with that, I saw a 3″ drift to the left with RWS Hobby pellets. So, I waited until the wind was as calm as it would get for every shot.

Cocking and clip-loading behavior loosening
In both parts 1 and 2, I told you the rifle cocks stiffly and the pellet clip is difficult to load. Well, on this day both those traits seemed to be coming to an end. I guess the rifle is wearing in after all the shooting I’ve done.

Scoped
I mounted a Leapers 3-12×44 30mm Mini SWAT scope in 2-piece Accushot 30mm high rings. You don’t need the high rings for the objective bell, but you do need them to clear the 10-shot clip that rides above the top of the receiver. There’s also an issue with removing the clip while the scope is mounted. I found it fairly easy to remove and install, even though the scope’s objective bell appears to be very close to the clip.


Leapers 3-12×44 Mini SWAT is a compact but powerful scope for a compact hunting rifle. The scope must be mounted high enough to clear the 10-shot clip that rises above the receiver.


Not much clearance is needed to remove and install the circular clip.

JSBs not good
I tried both 15.8-grain Exacts and 14.3-grain Exacts, but neither wanted to group in this rifle. So, our homework assignment availed us no usable pellet.

RWS Hobbys also no good
RWS Hobbys were also a waste of time. Not only were they blowing to the left in the wind, they didn’t seem to want to group. Of course, 35 yards is a bit far to shoot such an unaerodynamic pellet. They’re much better when held to 25 yards or less. At shorter range, wadcutters make a good hunting choice because of the damage they do to tissue.

Baracudas to the rescue!
Fortunately, I had a tin of Baracudas to try. They’re also sold as Beeman Kodiaks, and these were the Match pellets. Not only do they produce great energy in this rifle, they also group pretty well. At 35 yards on this windy day, they tended to group under 0.90″, and they showed a potential for grouping even better when the wind isn’t there.


An average group of 5 Baracudas at 35 yards. The 4 are in a tight 0.501″ cluster, but the flier to the left opens the group to 0.895.” This was a called flier due to the wind.


A better group of Baracudas. All shots were in the lowest wind available. Group size is 0.80″.

Premiers were the best!
If Kodiaks/Baracudas were good, then Crosman Premiers ruled. Of course, they’re nearly 6 grains lighter, but perhaps they fly so fast the wind doesn’t have time to work on them. Or perhaps they’re more aerodynamically contoured. Perhaps a little of both. After all these years and the challenge of the JSB, it’s refreshing to see that Crosman Premiers haven’t entirely left the building.


Five Crosman Premiers went into this group that measures 0.620″. All shots were fired in the lowest wind.


Best group of Premiers measures 0.597″. The four at the right measure 0.346″.

Summary
The Webley Raider 10 is a compact hunting air rifle. It carries more shots than many similar air rifles, but it has a small reservoir that keeps the number of powerful accurate shots low. Accuracy is fine, though nothing extraordinary among similar guns in this price range. It wears in to become a smooth shooter, so cut it some slack in the beginning.

43 thoughts on “Webley Raider 10 – Part 3

  1. Hi,B.B. I remember from a past article that you said that the best pellet you found for a TX 200 in .22 cal was the Beeman Kodiak and the JSB Exacts.I was wondering if these were a little heavy for a rifle that shoots at 700fps.Did you try Crosman premiers ?What are your thoughts?Thanks



  2. Mornin’ B.B.,
    Nice little way to get peoples gears turnin. I missed yesterdays report, because i stayed with my friend and went golfing for the first time. Seeing as i had no idea what i was doing, i did decent. Now i think just a lot of practice comes in. Now i just gotta straighten my drive out. I have a huge right hook. Anywho, is the accuracy of the HW50s anything like that of the 55s?
    Thanks,
    Brody


  3. B.B. My apologies.I did not mean to misquote you. I guess I misunderstood what you said. I’ve tried Crosmans and there pretty good.The owners manuel says the rifle was tested at the factory with Air Arms pellets so I guess I’ll order and try them.I’ll let you know how they are.


  4. B.B.

    Any chance you can compare the noise level of the Radier to the Air Arms s410 .22 cal.

    I also just got the Evanix AR6, six shot repeater in .22 cal last week, it is very accurate, 1″ 5 shot groups, at 50 yards in a rest, ( the wind was 10-15mph, didn’t effect it at all with the Eunjin 28 gr.) but, boy is it loud, about like a .22 long rifle…
    I should get the Air Arms .22 Carbine S410 this week, if its as quite as the .177 and the s400 single shot I tried, it will be great..

    The AR6 only gets about 30 accurate shot on a tank, and you can’t shoot it down to 50 bar like the S410 and get 90 or 100 accurate shots even if the last 40 you have to aim high. but wow are those powerful shots.. the AR6 is a great loud hunter, real quick to get more shots with that hammer cocking lever in the back…

    And at the price, it is worth a comparison…

    Well, I’m off to the lake for an hour to swim the dogs, or they go crazy all day with extra energy… it’s a beautiful way to start the day anyway…

    Wayne,

    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  5. B.B.,

    Yesterday’s installment on the accuracy of the HW55SF and todays installment on the accuracy of the Webley Raider 10 should be required reading for all new gun owners. Appreciate your emphasis on trying many different types of pellets. Even a veteran like you that started your “what is the most accurate pellet in this rifle test” knowing velocity and fps for two pellets was surprised by the pellets that performed best. Before I pass judgement on the accuracy of a new gun purchase I need to remember this lesson. Try the pellets that you assume may not group, you may be surprised.

    kevin


  6. Wayne,

    If you have to choose between the S410 and AR6 which one will you get?

    Also are you going to get any of the Evanix new models?

    Walter.


  7. B.B.,
    I am pleased that you appreciate my report on CONDOR CREEP and that you think that it is useful enough to turn into a blog. Of course, you are free to use it/edit it in any way that you would like, and you may use my “handle.”

    Because I am moderately computer/internet ignorant and have no desire to learn how to write in blog format, I will leave it to you to format it for easier reading (e.g., fps readings in left column, energy readings in adjacent column, comments in 3rd column). Thank you for your kind words, and of course I continue to read your blog every day. I am curious if you consider yourself more knowledgeable about air guns or firearms? – Dr. G.


  8. Is the Webley Raider you tested a current model? I’ve heard that the Raiders are not made in Turkey, which to some may be considered a good thing! Where are the current Raiders made?


  9. Brody,

    I think the current HW 50 must be as accurate as the HW 55, even though the model has changed since they were first made. The current 50 is a more powerful rifle, but it still has the HW barrel which is where the accuracy lives.

    B.B.


  10. Wayne,

    The Raider 10 is much quieter than the S410 on high power, but it should be. When the S410 is turned down between medium and low it becomes as quiet as the Raider 10.

    Please hold your opinions of the AR-6. There is a new model in town and the test begins next week.

    B.B.



  11. Dr. G.,

    Then that’s what we’ll do. I want to add some things of my own after your test results, so you and I will co-author this report.

    As for the airguns vs firearms knowledge question, I am more knowledgeable about firearm when I’m with airgunners and more knowledgeable about airguns when I’m with firearms shooters. How’s that for a waffle?

    I probably know more about firearms than about airguns, but the firearms I know about are mostly the old ones. I’m not up on the current tactical stuff, the plastic pistols or any of the super-short magnums.

    B.B.


  12. Wayne,

    Sounds like the start to a great day. I think I am as anxious as you for the arrival of the S410 carbine.

    If the reduced length and increase in caliber still keep the discharge sound low, I know what my next purchase will be.

    Volvo




  13. Thanks to everyone who left me a comment, both positive and negative, following my first blog, about using airsoft to teach shooting.

    I was away on vacation when it was published, so I am just today answering comments from Al in CT, Bruce, Matt61 and Wayne. They are posted in the comments section under the original blog.

    –Joe B.



  14. Volvo,

    It was for sure a great way to start the day… we do it every day almost… any day we miss the dogs let us know… they can swim 2 miles easy… the ducks and geese just swim out the middle of the lake and they follow, the ducks fly back, the dogs swim back, the dogs follow them again, the ducks fly back… a few more times and we go home.. they are natural hunters, we have to keep them off the deer on our property…

    Chris & I soon learned to bring the boat so we could go and go grab them if they go the wrong way…

    I have never seen a better breed, for lovable, smart, and fun, but these two brother Labadooles are amazing in their need for exercise, they can run or swim for miles and not be tired.. but best is no shedding easy hair maint…. Chris has been allergic to the other dogs we had, and their hair always piled up around the house…. you can hug these guys and they demand it all the time… I hear they are great for old folks homes…

    Yes, the S410 .22 carbine will be here mid next week…. I'm very anxious, but I have so many new treasures to further test, including the .22 Condor… Randy got to shoot it way more than me.. and I don't want him to get better than me with it… I got to practice… that I can just barely get by until then….

    Wayne,


  15. B.B.,

    How are you? I ve been reading your blogs lately, my service is currently “on hold”. I am waiting in Cyprus, until I go to Greece for trainning.

    So, I have a question for you… A good friend of mine wants to get a springer, but he is annoyed that they are sensitive to the way they are held.

    From the rifles you have worked with, can you remember any that didn’t care much for the hold?

    What came to my mind was the RWS 54 but it’s a heavy rifle…

    Thanks a lot for the help.


  16. Andreas,

    Your friend needs to understand that ALL firearms are sensitive to how they are held. The spring rifles are simply more sensitive.

    Your choice of the RWS Diana 54 is probably the best one. The TX 200 is another good one, though not quite as good as the 54.

    Breakbarrels are generally the most sensitive of all.

    B.B.


  17. B.B.

    I was catching up on old blogs when I noticed you mentioned being under some pressure. Nothing I ask or comment on is worth higher blood pressure numbers. I hope your other regular readers are of like mind. Your response times and in-depth explanations already put most billion dollar companies to shame; please don’t ever let my ramblings add to your load.

    Volvo




  18. Hi All,

    I’m up late shooting the S410 in the pool room…everyone else is in the next room watching the Olympics… It’s just more fun to shoot the S410 than any thing else…

    I’ve been trying to see how many shots I can get on a 200 bar fill, without changing the scope or loosing P.O.I.

    I turned the power adjuster down to just over half and it still shot 827fps with the JBS Exact heavy 10.4 gr.

    I filled up 11 of the 10 shot magazines with the Exacts, (in about 3 minutes), set up a board with 21 of the 1″ orange dots, and settled into my recliner at 60′…

    Resting on my knee, elbows locked to the chair, I shot 3 -5 shot groups in 1/4″…12 groups in 3/8″,
    and the other 6 were no more than 5/8″…the last 2 groups were also in the 3/8″ class, and had no drop what so ever!!!

    That’s 105 shots at 800fps plus, on a 200 bar fill, without loss of P.O.I and changing aim point or the scope…
    Let’s see any PCP beat that…

    All done quietly at 11:00 at night, not disturbing people watching TV in the next room….

    Wayne,

    Ashland Air Rifle Range



  19. Twotalon,

    That’s my point… I started at 200 bar and 827fps and the last shot was 788pfs at 60 bar..

    I only put the first and last shots through the crony, this time; but a few blogs ago I told about the 115 shots though the crony.. but that was with the power adjuster set on high.. that began at 1041 with the JBS heavys and ended at 731 at 50 bar…if I remember right..

    I’m fairly new to this air gun game, but this performance seems amazing to me…

    Wayne,

    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  20. Wayne
    The reason I asked was because the spread…not just the beginning and end …. is more important to holding POI.
    It’s all in how the curve looks. Too much variation across the whole string will shift POI too much at a distance.

    You also have to decide what pressure range gives you what you consider acceptable group size at any given distance.
    You have some pretty good groups within certain parts of the string. If you are particular enough, you can eventually figure out what pressure range and power setting will give you the highest number of good shots….depending on what you consider acceptable accuracy.
    For example..
    My Talon with .22 18″ barrel distinctly does not like fills over 180 bar, and shoots all over the place with higher fills. Starting at 180 and shooting down to 150-160 it shoots good. It has a very best spot between 165-170 bar. This limits my shot count to 30-40 shots, but they are good shots. You may find that the PCPs that you pick up may be particular about what they like and dislike too…to different extents.

    What you have there sounds pretty good. Make sure to take notes on each rifle as to what they like and dislike.

    twotalon


  21. twotalon,

    I know what you mean, I learned that one on the Discovery test..

    What I’m saying is I’ve done that..
    If the gun were in a bench rest.. I bet that every group would have been 1/4″ from start to finish with no change in P.O.I. for the 105 shots, with the bar going from 200 down to 60… that’s what is amazing..

    Wayne


  22. Wayne
    Sounding good. You make me want one.
    Try some CPH and Kodiaks if you have them. Make sure to lube the CPH or they will lead the crap out of the bore.

    twotalon


  23. Anyone,
    I have a good deal on a Storm Xt or a Shadow Sport. Which one should I get? Which one will last longer. I don’t like the wieght of the shadow (too light) and the plastic barrel jacket is retarded. I think the spring and the seals are better in the shadow.

    department of the redundancy department.


  24. twotalon,

    I have tried them both… the kodiak 10.6 do well, I like them in the wind, a 10 to 15 has no effect to speak of… but in the bench rest they, and the CPH 10.5 group at 1/2" indoors at 60'…. While the the JBS heavy and 8.4 group 1/4" and sometimes just pile 5 on top of each other..

    The difference is not as great when I go outdoors to 50 yards.. there the Kodiak give 1" – 5 shot groups from a rest and the CPH are 1-3/4" while the JBS Exact heavy or 8.4 are 1/2" from a good bench rest, no wind…..

    My walnut stock Air Arms S410 .177 10 shot repeater, is an amazing gun, and the Beech stock one was just as accurate.. before the breech seal blew out yesterday.. It never was as smooth firing or cocking.. I called PA and got a RMA… so it's packed up… I'm shooting my walnut stock as much as I can now, to further test it… and it is doing as perfect as the first time I shot it… I have over 3,500 shots on it now, at least…

    Other than accuracy, and looks, the beech stock one, seemed like a different gun… I hope I don't have a unique one.. I want a lot more s410's as good as my walnut stock one..

    Wayne,

    Ashland Air Rifle Range & rentals


  25. Joe B.

    You did a great job of winding up your guest blog on teaching air soft to women of last month, go back and read it people…


  26. twotalon,

    I just ran the test again in the “cadillac” bench rest… with the JBS 10.2 and Kodiak 10.6… This time I actually put on my glasses and looked at the power adjuster scale.. I was at just UNDER half when it shot 827fps on the first shot with the kodiaks… just over half gives me 917fps and half is 877fps..

    The kodiaks did a little better than I guessed only 3 “flyers” took me out of 5/16″ 10 shot groups, (I ran out of targets, so I switched to 10 shot with the kodiaks), making them 1/2″ groups… the JBS heavy did as I guessed.. 1/4″ with only one 5/16″ group and two very close to one pellet size 5 shot groups..

    Also in re-reading I see I left out that I did adjust the power adjuster after 60 shots..not the 6-24×50 leapers scope… every 10 shot mag. after six, I moved the power adjuster 1/32″ up with it full open at 55 bar at the 120th shot.. which was the ending of a 5/16″ group of 10 shots..

    So there is the terrible burden of adjusting the power adjuster 1/32″ every 10 shots passed 60, to get those 120 shots per fill, in a 5/16″ group at 60′ indoors, in a good bench rest.. What a bother…

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  27. Hi All,

    The other thing I like so much about the Air Arms S410, is the 10 shot repeater..
    Practice makes me better, not “perfect” and I get 6 or 8 times the shots off with the S410 PCP over a quality springer like the TX200.. and being so easy to hold steady though the shot.. the PCP is way easier to be accurate with…

    Sorry I can’t stop about it.. I get really excited when I find something like this, especially after looking though so much lesser stuff…

    Wayne
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  28. Wayne…
    Best solution I can think of is to just pick your best power adjustment setting for accuracy and shot count and leave it there. No point in wearing it out. Shoot 60 or however many looks good, then refill from there.

    twotalon



  29. twotalon,

    That’s for sure..

    I’m just pretending I’m stranded out on an island and each shot is a meal…until the ship comes to get me…

    and sometimes it’s fun to play the mil dot game at 50 bar…

    and of course you can play the game at a different distance with the Condor… but I’m just learning about that one…

    Wayne

    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  30. annon and twotalon,

    sure when I’m serious, I turn up the power and take the 60 shots at 1041 to 900 something with no loss of POI and no fooling around…even at 50 yards…

    And if I’m not feeling lazy, which is not often the case, I get up and go to the scuba tank and fill er up.. so being lazy I invented the game of shooting to 50 bar with the least adjustments…and since 727fps still knocks over the field targets, I can pretend I just got a meal….with my 120th shot on a fill…

    Wayne


  31. BB,

    Can you please review for us the software Chairgun2? In its Notes Section, it states that it has abandoned the basic external ballistics described in the Cardew book The Airgun from Trigger to Target” in favor of Steve Woodward’s ballistics math.

    By the way, what is external ballistics? I am thinking ballistics in this context applies to the trajectory of the pellet.

    Thanks.

    David


  32. David,

    I’m all Mac and nobody writes programs for that platform. Why don’t you review the software and tell us?

    Yes, you are right. Internal ballistics is when the pellet/bullet is still in the barrel and external is when it has left the barrel on its flight.

    B.B.



  33. Does Webley even sell the Raider 10 anymore? I haven't heard of it for years.

    I would still recommend the Marauder, however, for the quite operation, the ability to control power and also the fill level. The trigger is also wonderful.

    I'm going to start a new review f the Marauder next week on the new blog site. Come here:

    http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/

    B.B.


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