Thursday, June 18, 2009

Leapers 1.25-4x24 scope

by B.B. Pelletier

Know how to tell when you're testing something really good? When it has major features you don't notice because you're focused on other things that matter more at the moment. So it is with our subject scope. Leapers sent me a goodie bag of scopes and gear to test for you. I've already told you about their UTG Special Ops computer bag that I now use exclusively on all my trips, and now I'm pawing around the rest of the gear to see what's there. One good thing I found is this Leapers 1.25-4x24 scope, which has already proven invaluable in a test for an article I'm writing for Shotgun News. I'll tell you about the major feature I overlooked at the end of the report.

If you go by the criteria for airgun scopes, this 1.25-4x24 scope shouldn't even be sold by Pyramyd Air. It has so many things going against it as an airgun scope. First, it has fixed parallax set at 100 yards. That's not even close enough for a .22 rimfire, to say nothing of an airgun. Airguns want their parallax set under 50 yards. Next, the low power runs contrary to what airgunners are buying these days. Then, there's the small objective lens. Twenty-four millimeters is smaller than one inch, which is the nominal diameter of the scope tube. We think of 32mm as a small objective, but 24 is even smaller.

All joking aside...it works!
So, why am I testing this scope here? Well, having disregarded all of these "shortcomings," I mounted one on a .22 rimfire I'm testing for a Shotgun News article and proceeded to shoot very good groups at 50 yards. The reason this was possible? One word--clarity. My 61-year-old eyes that normally need bifocals were able to bisect the bull of a 50-foot smallbore target at 50 yards with the crosshairs of this scope. That's on FOUR power! That's how crystal-clear the image is!


The bull on a 50-foot small bore rifle target measures 1.5" across the black 6-ring. The Leapers scope reticle was able to bisect this bull at 50 yards so I could see it.


The crosshairs are fine in the center part of the reticle--fine enough to bisect a 1.5" circle at 50 yards. They're thicker at the edges, which sounds like a duplex pattern, though I don't think this reticle is a true duplex. The thick lines are too far out of the center. But they do focus your vision on the central part of the reticle. The inner lines are ultra-fine, and no worries about breaking them, because theyre etched on glass rather than being actual wires. There are fine mil-dots on them, as well.

The click adjustments are 1/2-minute (approximately 1/2" of movement at 100 yards), and they were accurate enough to center my groups at 50 yards with the rimfire I tested. That rifle, by the way, was a new offering from Umarex--the Colt M4 in .22 long rifle. You can read that test in the September 20 issue of Shotguns News.

This is also a long eye relief scope. The ad says 4-5"; and when I measured it, the relief on my scope is at 4" when the exit pupil is optimum. That means you have some mounting flexibility. The scope doesn't have to extend back as far as some do, which on many air rifles is a problem because of the forward location of the scope stop.

So what about the 100-yard parallax setting? With magnification this low, you aren't bothered by it. Things are clear enough to shoot at 5 FEET when the power is set as low as it will go. They're a little fuzzy, but you can still resolve a housefly or an ant at that distance. So, the parallax isn't going to be a problem. I shot a sub-1" 10-shot group with a .22 rimfire semiauto at 50 yards, so whatever parallax there is, it isn't much of a problem.

Next, this is almost a compact scope. It's under 10" long and will fit most air rifles with no positioning problems--even those shorter rifles that normally have problems with scopes. The one I'm testing has a one-inch tube and mounts in standard rings, but another slightly larger model with similar features has a 30mm tube. Either one should be a great hunting rifle scope for guns shooting at 50 yards and less.

The forgotten feature?
What about that feature I overlooked? Well, it turns out that this scope has an illuminated reticle--and because the reticle is etched on glass, it's very fine when illuminated. Only the center fine lines are illuminated--either red or green--and they do not flare on the inside of the scope tube when the brightness is turned up high. I overlooked it because I didn't need that feature for my test. I just wanted a clear scope so I could shoot accurately. And that's what I got. It wasn't until this evaluation for you that I even noticed the illuminated reticle feature or installed the battery to examine it!

What is this scope suited for?
I plan to mount this scope on my Quackenbush .308 rifle. It will make a great minute-of-deer scope out to around 150 yards, which is pretty much the maximum for the .308 air rifle on animals of that size. For prairie dogs, it should do well out to 100 yards. That's how clear the image is. It would also work well on a powerful smallbore like a Condor or an Evanix AR-6. Anything where precise aiming is important, along with compact size and a wide field of view.

This isn't for field target or for long-range shooting, despite how well it served that purpose for me. It's a fast hunting scope with a wide, clear field of view.

If you're looking for a nice hunting scope, even for a firearm, don't overlook this one!

77 Comments:

At June 18, 2009 7:19 AM, Blogger ajvenom said...

Nice little scope. Woud be pretty good for a light weight rimfire hunter perhaps.

I like the sound of an etched glass reticule, a clear view and an IR, if it's thin. Although, I would miss my AO greatly.

The PA's Ad has listed the scope you've mentioned with a 1/2 MOA. Hopfully the ad's just wrong.

As for my rimmies, I've already been using the Leapers 3-9x32AO scopes. Over 2 years, I haven't had any problems with my Leapers on anything yet.

AJ

 
At June 18, 2009 7:34 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

AJ,

Thanks for catching that. I just checked the scope and the description is correct. The clicks are half-minute. I changed the text.

Thanks,

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 8:17 AM, Blogger ajvenom said...

BB,

Well at least you'll get an "A" for spelling...lol!!!!

redicle, redical, redicule, retical, reticule, redacle, redacal,redacule, retecle, retecal, retecule......

oh yeah reticle.....dolt!!!!

Wouda couda shouda remembered an "L' in would, but I didn't.

oh well.

 
At June 18, 2009 8:28 AM, Anonymous Vince said...

ajvenom, don't ridicule your reticule. It ain't worth it.

 
At June 18, 2009 8:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't be reticule-less...

 
At June 18, 2009 9:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is the scope strong enough to stand recoil from magnum springers?

--Witt

 
At June 18, 2009 9:08 AM, Blogger ajvenom said...

yeeeahhh!!!!

Let's give these fine couple 50 dollars each for saying the secret word of the day!!!!! he he he

 
At June 18, 2009 9:13 AM, Blogger ajvenom said...

it was ridicule......

and the pun wasn't bad either.

We can give witt 50 dollars too.

 
At June 18, 2009 9:19 AM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

BB,
Now there's a sensible scope. The obj. will seem small to many, but the exit pupil never drops below 6mm (at 4x). Also, I saw parallax error at 50 yards calculated somewhere for a 4x scope with parallax set to 100, and it amounted to a whole 1/2 inch if I remember correcly.

What I don't get is that 3 or 4X was sufficient to shoot a deer at long range not so long ago, but now we need 24X! Gun writers:)?

Does the fact that it is 1/2 MOA clicks mean that the adjustment range is larger? I better stop before AJ reticules my ignorance.

 
At June 18, 2009 9:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB - What do you think of this scope on a .22lr for squirrel hunting? Could you compare it to a leapers 4x40 tactedge?

Thanks,

aaron

 
At June 18, 2009 9:25 AM, Blogger JoeG said...

This looks like it can be a fine shotgun scope for our Jersey deer seasons.

 
At June 18, 2009 9:32 AM, Blogger Bub said...

BB: Does the larger 30mm tube scope have any advantages over the one you reviewed? Is the magnification on the 30mm a true 1X on the low end and if so would it make a good substitute for a red dot, with the added benefit of higher magnification if needed? Not to steal any thunder from your up coming article on the Colt 22lr, but could you share any first impressions? Thank you

 
At June 18, 2009 9:46 AM, Blogger ajvenom said...

As long as you know the MOA, it should be work out fine. 1/2 MOA under 100 yards should be good for hunting. It may help adjust faster when needed.

witt,

As for strength:

http://www.pyramydair.com/swf/leapers-ts.html

The etched reticle should put more people at ease when using on a springer. I've known some to have their wire reticles become loose and a little fuzzy over time.

BB,

I wonder how it would do on a pistol?

Do they make an AO version?

How long is the scope?

BG,

Thanks for the px error figure.

1/2 MOA about 1/2" per click at 100 yards.

any scopes I see are 1/4 MOA per click, but at the ranges I shoot I do a lot of clicking.

Some target scopes can have 1/8 MOA per click.

24x for deer...depeneds on where you are shooting.....most are probably taken with 4x or 3-9x under 100 yard up north part of the state. Here, it's shotguns only and 50 yards is a long shot to get a deer.

ignorance? if we all knew what BB knew......we wouldn't be here.

 
At June 18, 2009 10:11 AM, Blogger Alexander said...

B.B. your M4 was not in .223 (5.56x45mm) it was in 22LR? And Umerex is were you got it?

 
At June 18, 2009 10:23 AM, Blogger Dan said...

Hi B.B, been meaning to write you, read a 2005 post on the early Crosman bulk-fill pistols and bought 3 of them - 2-116's, and a 112...one of the 116's works perfect, the second has a medium-slow leak, and the 112 gushes co2. I bought a seal kit from Bryan and AC, and want to reseal these myself, I'm reasonably mechanically proficient but could use some advise so I don't screw these beauties up! Also where can I buy duplicate items as came in the reseal pack to avoid $24 a pop in the future..it's just a few washers and o-rings and a spring.. A step-by-step reseal vid/blog/manual would be helpful, I also bought the special tool but don't know when/where to use it.. help would be appreciated...LOVE YOUR FORUM!!!!

Dom

 
At June 18, 2009 10:28 AM, Blogger ajvenom said...

I was reading about reticles...wiki .. and it said glass etched rticles may not be as durable as wired ones? Could it be true? I always thought the opposite.

 
At June 18, 2009 10:28 AM, Blogger Bub said...

Check out Crosman's blog on their website for info on new nitro.

 
At June 18, 2009 10:30 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

BG_Farmer,

That Vangauard 7mm came with a Nikon "Prostaff" 2-7 x (no number, but looks like about 32).. no AO, so I was dubious at best whether I could use it or not..
but I was very surprised when I could use it!!.. and I got that 2-1/4" 5 shot group at 200 yards!!

I planned on a 4-16x50AO side wheel leapers for it.. but I think I'll leave it as is.. Field of View is so much larger and nicer.. and not having to adjust focus between distances is a real plus..

But, I'm also leaving the 8-32x56AO leapers side wheel on the Howa 1500 in .223 and Howa 30-06... and the Kimber 82 in .223

so I guess I'm living in both worlds.. old and new!! I like being able to see where I'm hitting the paper.. and that ain't happening with the 2-7.. some of the "shoot n sees" almost work at 200 yards... with the 2-7 for me.. but .. I end up picking up one of the other guns with the 8-32 as a spotting scope!

Learning more and more all the time.. thanks folks!!

Want some of that Remington core-lokt 30-06 150gr? (the 180gr is gone).. I'm going out later today.. it was $18 box of 20

Wacky Wayne

 
At June 18, 2009 10:36 AM, Anonymous Mr B. said...

BG_Farmer,

You and I are on the same page. Back in the day a 4x was normal, 6x was high power for those long shots, and 10x was considered a good varmit scope.

In answer to your "I don't get it", we are in a culture where bigger is better. Can I supersize that scope for you sir? I just checked out 3 hunting pellet rifles with variable scopes on them and 2 are at 4x and one is at 5x.

Mr B.

Word verification "brighth". See even blogger agrees with us :)

 
At June 18, 2009 10:46 AM, Blogger Domin8rq said...

Hi B.B, been meaning to write you, read a 2005 post on the early Crosman bulk-fill pistols and bought 3 of them - 2-116's, and a 112...one of the 116's works perfect, the second has a medium-slow leak, and the 112 gushes co2. I bought a seal kit from Bryan and AC, and want to reseal these myself, I'm reasonably mechanically proficient but could use some advise so I don't screw these beauties up! Also where can I buy duplicate items as came in the reseal pack to avoid $24 a pop in the future..it's just a few washers and o-rings and a spring.. A step-by-step reseal vid/blog/manual would be helpful, I also bought the special tool but don't know when/where to use it.. help would be appreciated...LOVE YOUR FORUM!!!!

Dom

 
At June 18, 2009 11:12 AM, Blogger CJr said...

BB,
Any word on that nifty new scope we were looking at at the NRA AZ show?
-C

 
At June 18, 2009 12:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Sounds good. I would consider it if I didn't already have my very nice Leapers scope, and I must say that I don't feel any guilt about my 6-24X50 scope. I'm also eager to hear about the revolutionary new scope.

Chuck, ha ha. Your handicaps sound reasonable to me.

Wayne, afraid the library doesn't loan out guns. You're the closest thing to that. Thanks for the report on the Weatherby. I've always heard good things about it, but didn't know it was that good. My take on the Howa is that it is probably better made than the Savages. Accuracy may be comparable; reports are good but not as many. I doubt that the trigger is better than the AccuTrigger but reports are good and they could be comparable.

What does the Core-Lokt have going for it? It sounds like it is more a hunting than a target round. Don't forget the Black Hills whenever that becomes available although I'm not holding my breath.

BG_Farmer, I didn't know that about the transonic .22 ammo. I'm not set up for computer control of fans. But I figured you could be systematic about it which you certainly cannot be with naturall wind. Have the fans at right angles, then quartering, then have them swivel to varying degrees to introduce uncertainty. I'm surprised as someone mentioned that the fans have so little effect on the pellet. I guess you would need bigger fans or a smaller shooting range.

CowBoyStar Dad, 6-8 hours, 6 days a week sounds like major eyestrain. I thought I read about some Russian champion pistol shot who was much more laid back, not even every day.

Matt61

 
At June 18, 2009 1:03 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

hey BG, I reread your last question, I would say the adj. range is about the same but just less clicks to get there. For the short ranges I shoot, moving the POA with a 1/2 MOA per click scope can get there quicker than 1/4 or 1/8, but for hunting it may be a benifit.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:04 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

I mean benefit.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:08 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

ajvenom,

I've finished editing the video on the artillery hold. It should be up in a day or two.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:16 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Aaron,

It's tough to choose between this scope and a 4X40 Tactedge. This one is clear and sharp, plus it offers adjustable power. The Tactedge is less expensive.

Tough to choose.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:19 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Bub,

Yes, the 30mm scope would be a nice red dot substitute!

As for the Colt, I shot a sub-inch group with 10 shots at 50 yards, using this scope! And that was with over-the-counter affordable .22 ammo. That's as good as what you get from some accurized 10/22s. I'm not finished with the rifle, so that's all I can say.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:22 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

ajvenom,

The scope is about 9.8 inches long, despite what the description says. AO is useless on a 4-power scope. You can't see anything clearly enough at distance to know when you are focused on it. It's like a sundial at the bottom of a mine shaft.

It would not work well on a pistol because you need a longer eye relief.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:24 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Alexander,

Yes, this is a brand new offering with the Colt name on it. I don't think it's on the market yet. It is not a converted lower with a rimfire upper.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:25 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dom,

You are going where I have never been. How about taking your question to the Crosman Forum?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:27 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

Wayne,

Thanks for the offer to get me some CoreLokts, but I'm pretty sure I can find some ammo reasonably soon, just need to get in the habit of buying it when I see it, not when I need it immediately:). Do you use the 180 or the 150, or both, and have you noticed any real difference? I've also been meaning to try 165. The managed recoil rounds are sweet, too. Put them in an old shoulder-banger box and amaze the boys with your toughness as you fire tens of rounds without flinching:).

The Prostaff is a nice scope like all Nikons in my opinion, and 2-7x is more than adequate for "big game". Its probably 32mm, which should be more than enough except in pre- and post-legal twilight, even at 7x. I like to use binoculars or separate scope for spotting, since I'm paranoid about adjusting the zooms:).

Mr. B,
You're speaking my language -- we sound like two old guys, though:). When its "good" scope died, I put a Daisy 4x15 on my Glenfield 60, and it may stay there. Its much better in terms of eye-relief and lens coatings than the original Tasco 4x15, which still works. Almost wish I'd spent the extra $5 for the 3-7x20:): at 3x, the exit pupil would be bigger:). That rifle's sights are horrible, or it wouldn't be scoped at all.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:27 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dom,

I answered your bulk-fill question where you first asked it.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:29 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Chuck,

No word yet. I'll make a few calls.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:39 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

AJ,
What I meant was: does it offer a larger range of adjustment by going in 1/2 MOA clicks? I've seen some talk about 1/8 MOA target scopes where they seem to trade precision for range of adjustment. 1/2 MOA is a group to the benchresters, but for hunters from the dinner plate school of thought, it doesn't matter:).

Matt,
Old school approach would be to use two or more oscillating fans and simulate real world conditions by varying their phase relationships:).

Your library could be the first to lend guns -- I can promise you will get some free publicity out of it:).

 
At June 18, 2009 1:40 PM, Blogger Fused said...

Now I have to learn about scopes! This is a never ending learning curve. Good thing it's also fun. I'm still thinking about shooting with both eyes open. Can you do it on a magnified scope? Doesn't that really throw your brain into a quandry? Or maybe it makes it easier I don't know, but I'll find out when my own new Leapers 3-9x40 comes in.

BTW - Wayne/Vince, the FedEx guy just delivered me a very special package. On a deadline right now, so I'll have to wait until this weekend to open, but it's calling my name! David, want to play?!... Can you hear it too? Thanks a million!

Also, I noticed someone on Gunbroker is bidding on what is claimed to be the very first model Daisy. Is that you too?

 
At June 18, 2009 1:41 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Witt,

This scope is built on Leapers True Strength platform and should stand up to the recoil of an elephant rifle or a Beeman Kodiak. I tested the Kodiak when the platform was first offered.

read this article:

http://www.pyramydair.com/articles/leapers-asked-for-it/

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 1:49 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

BG_Farmer,

I doubt this scope has a larger adjustment range than other one-inch scopes. Leapers doesn't publish the range, SO I COUNTED THE CLICKS FOR YOU!!!

Verticle 578 clicks!!! Seemed to get real light after 280 clicks

Horizontal You MUST be kidding!!!

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 2:01 PM, Blogger Sean said...

All,

Sorry for breaking up the conversation, but I didn't want to necro an old post. I was reading the post on the Marksman 1010 from 2006, and it reminded me that I had a question to ask about my Marksman. The instructions say to oil it with SAE 30 Motor Oil. I was wondering whether or not regular gun oil would work to oil the internals, instead of the motor oil.

Thanks,
Sean

 
At June 18, 2009 2:07 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Sean,

The problem is not with the oil but with anything that may have been added to it. Motor oil is recommended as a seal lubricant to maintain compression. Some gun oils might work, but those with other chemicals in them may attack the seal material. Unfortunately, it's impossible tyo say which ones work.

But Crosman Pellgunoil is 20-weight oil with o-ring preservative added and should work just fine.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 2:12 PM, Blogger Fused said...

So that I don't over-maintain my new springer air rifle, what is the suggested procedure for adding oil. Just a drop right? But how often?

 
At June 18, 2009 2:13 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

BB - Wouldn't a scope have the same range of adjustment in 1/4 moa vs 1/2 moa per click given all other things being equal?

Cool, looking forward to seeing the new video. No rush, I'd miss razzing you about it.

Fused - Welcome to the club, once you have it all figued out...you find something new to learn. That leapers sound like a winner to me.

I shoot with both eyes open all the time...shouldn't be to hard if you look through the scope with your dominant eye. For me it helps makes for a more steady of a shot.

 
At June 18, 2009 2:16 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Fused,

One drop. After every 3,000 to 5,000 pellets, or when the gun honks like a goose when cocked.

The oil/grease on the mainspring is constantly migrating forward to lubricate the seal.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 2:17 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

ajvenom,

Yes, the RANGE should be the same regardless of the click value.

BV.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 2:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Sounds like you're converting to the AR-15 platform. Let us know when it happens....

All, on the subject of self-defense, I came across a couple of techniques last night. The genealogy is kind of interesting: a priest relating ideas from one of his friends who teaches defensive tactic to police in Los Angeles. Anyway, one idea is that if someone has a gun on you, it is possible for you to pull your own gun from your quick draw holster and shoot him before he can pull the trigger. The reason for this very unintuitive claim? Someone merely aiming the gun lacks the immediate intention to shoot which you have if you decide to draw and shoot him. Of course, you have to be good.

The other idea is if someone is holding you up and you don't have a gun. Then, what you do is stick your finger into the muzzle of the pistol. You will lose your finger, but the gunman will lose his hand when his gun blows up. And you will save your life in the process. I don't think it's that easy to fit your finger precisely into a muzzle at speed. Besides, the Russian martial artists have some great gun disarming techniques that look plausible, and they have all their fingers.

Matt61

 
At June 18, 2009 2:45 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Matt,

The Mythbusters disproved this urban legend. The gun doesn't blow up, but you do lose your hand.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2009 2:51 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

I've used 30 weight non-detergent motor oil in my multi-pumps/CO2s when out of pellgun oil, but not too often. A tube of pellgun oil can go a long ways.

 
At June 18, 2009 3:00 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

Matt61 - or we all could watch the movie Rush Hour or....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM6Bpz6-dio

 
At June 18, 2009 3:02 PM, Blogger Fused said...

MAtt61,
Whoa! hold on.. don't ever try to out-shoot someone who already has a gun on you. If you can, give them what they want and live another day. If you can't (or won't) then distraction and appeasement are your best weapons. Then, strike if you must. Even martial artists learn to mentally distract their attacker before applying the techniques they learn. I'm a 2nd deg. black belt in TKD and this is the strategy we learn over and over. You staying relaxed and trying to relax your attacker is your best bet to getting away or overcoming them.

The no. 1 rule of self defense is to be aware of your surroundings at all times. Not getting into a bad situation in the first place is the safest strategy.

Rule no. 2 is never go anywhere with anyone trying to rob/attack you.

 
At June 18, 2009 5:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Completely off topic.
Am reading a book by Eric Haney, called inside Delta Force. In the late 70's he was one of the founding members.
The whole book is fascinating, but the chapter on learning to shoot (.45 1911A1)...spending a month shooting 8-10 hours a day, thousands of rounds...and what there expectations were as far as ability to hit 'the bad guys'.
Fascination reading!!
He describes one scenario at the beginning of the training, where they are going to be shown how it's done.
Seven of them are put in a room (in a trainging facility called 'the house'...rooms that looked like regular rooms but were built to take multiple gunshots and show no where and tear).
Anyhow, in a room that looked like a living room the seven of them are sat in chairs and told to act like hostages. Three or four cutouts are put around the room to look like terrorists.
The door is locked.
A couple of minutes later there is a crash at the door, two flashbangs are thrown in and go off, smoke fills the room and, as he says, there is a huge commotion and no more than 1 minute later, as the smoke starts to clear a bit there is a Delta operator in each corner of the room (that none of them saw enter), and every one of the terrorist cutouts has two holes in either the heart area or the head...make with live .45 ammo.
Fascinating reading.
CowBoyStar Dad

 
At June 18, 2009 6:04 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Matt61

I haven't found an "accutrigger" in the cal. I want yet.. so no comparison to the Howa 1500..

..all I know is the Howa 1500 trigger adjusts down as low as one would like to go.. there is some first stage.. and a fairly crisp break.. but it's not like my best FT guns..

..and nor should it be, firing a a .223 or 30-06, and carrying them in the field for hunting..

The bottom line is the trigger is NO distraction from staying on the target with the follow through..

On the Remington Express Core-lokt, I wanted to sight in and be sure about what I'm going hunting with.. so I use the same rounds for target practice.. then the rifle, supposedly, is ready to go hunting at all times..

The good thing is, these are target quality rounds with very destructive impact, for hunting! AND AFFORDABLE!!!.. compared to other similar quality and accuracy..

BG_Farmer,

I've got only 6 boxes of the 180gr. but 25 boxes of the 150gr.. no 165gr to be found..

The 180gr group just as well as the 150gr in the benchrest, but in the FT position, my groups open up by about 1-1/2" at 200 yards to 7" 5 shot.. (more recoil I guess).. but it feels about the same..

It seems about 2-3 clicks difference with the leapers 8-32x56 AO between the 150gr Remington Express and the 180gr.. at 200 yards..

With the damage the 150gr do to a 2x6 at 200 yards, I have to believe that's good enough for elk or deer, if the placement is right!..

Again Kevin, bless you for that great info and link on shot placement. That's why after I'm sighted in, I like to break clays at 200 yards.. moving from clay to clay on a target that is about right for the kill zone on an elk or deer..

Since I'm a virgin as far as killing a deer or elk with a rifle.. (a few with cars!).. I really want to do it right when my chance comes.. and it will!

So, if I were to take a shot from the FT position hunting, I'd be using the 150gr...

Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
(not just air rifles anymore)

 
At June 18, 2009 6:56 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

BB,
Thanks for counting the clicks -- you always go beyond the call of duty. I think 578 (1/2 MOA) clicks is equal to about 24 feet of elevation adjustment at 100 yards: wow! Even if there's a few mushies at the end of the range, its still ample.

Wayne,
Your experience is similar to mine -- the 150 isn't wimpy by any means. The 180 is supposed to be superior in ballistics, but I think the expectations have to be higher than mine for the difference to show up:).

I was a good husband today and picked up something for my wife at Walmart while I was in town -- lo and behold they had .22's and .30-06 in stock...use it or lose it applies to karma, too, I suppose. I think I'll see if she needs anything tomorrow:).

 
At June 18, 2009 6:58 PM, Blogger Domin8rq said...

Just a little follow-up, will pellgun oil help a leak in the Crosman 116/112?? I've tried a few drops at the entry where you connect the bulk feed tank, will it do any good??

Thanx

 
At June 18, 2009 7:58 PM, Blogger A.R. Tinkerer said...

Looks like Crosman will be coming out with a PCP pistol! Copy and paste the following link.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1245174637/Crosman+PCP+Pistol+Prototype+cleans+GOB+Pistol+FT+Course...

Tinkerer

 
At June 18, 2009 10:31 PM, Anonymous DB said...

Fused,
Leave both eyes open... even with a scope. Takes a small amount of practice but you brain will figure it out and blend the image for you.

DB

 
At June 18, 2009 10:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello, I have a question for the noise level of two guns; the crosman 2260 and the daisy 22sg. since they are both .22 cal, and kinda low velocity, which one is louder? a fresh new co2 in the 2260 or a 10 pumped 22sg? also, what is the most efficient yet affordable .22 pellet(s) I can take all recommendations! thanks.

 
At June 18, 2009 11:01 PM, Anonymous DB said...

I have a 1.5-6x44 leaper scope non AO with 30mm tube. Originally purchased for deer hunting.

It is so bright you could hunt by star light at night. Unfortunately the parallax is so bad it was not practical for hunting. Went back to my one power red dot for deer hunting.

Just picked up a 3-9 Leapers BugBuster with AO and that seems very nice. Also have a Leaper 4-12x44 with side wheel AO for my Disco. This is real nice; parallax is not a concern.

If the 1.5-6 Leapers didn't have such a parallax problem it would be a great scope. Like BB said of the one he just tested. It is so clear you do not need higher power for hunting.

DB
Oh man... this is very disturbing... word verification was... dying. What is bloging trying to say?

 
At June 18, 2009 11:04 PM, OpenID mechredd said...

I was really interested in this scope for a .22, but then I learned that it had a fixed parallax at 100 yards. I was disappointed because it was everything that I was looking for except for the parallax. Was that sub 1 inch group shot at 4 power?

 
At June 18, 2009 11:08 PM, Anonymous DB said...

Almost forgot. I also had a Winchester 3-9x32 Rifle Scope (from PA) and for the small price it worked great.

Lent it to a buddy who refused to give it back. So I sold it to him for exactly what PA charged me. It is still on his 22 rim fire.

DB

 
At June 18, 2009 11:10 PM, Anonymous DB said...

Pistol scope guy,
I have a NcSTAR 2.5x30 Pistol Scope on a Crosman 1377 and love it.

DB

 
At June 19, 2009 6:26 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

mechredd,

Yes, the group was shot at 4 power.

B.B.

 
At June 19, 2009 6:29 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Domin8rq,

That's where you put it and it works very well.

B.B.

 
At June 19, 2009 6:30 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

A.R. Tinkerer,

I shot that pistol a few weeks ago and it is a beauty. I was able to cut weed stems at 23 yards from a seated position!

B.B.

 
At June 19, 2009 6:33 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

2260/22SG,

I think the SG is slightly noisier than the 2260. The best cheap pellet is a Benjamin Discovery hollowpoint.

B.B.

 
At June 19, 2009 11:55 AM, Blogger A.R. Tinkerer said...

BB,

Yep, I'm excited that Crosman is finally bringing out a PCP pistol!

Do you have any idea of when they plan to release it? I assume you will blog it when it comes out?

Thanks,
Tinkerer

 
At June 19, 2009 3:32 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Tinker,

Before Christmas, I think and yes, I will review it.

B.B.

 
At June 19, 2009 4:04 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

Dom,

I was going to ask if you've tried some pellgun oil. I use a few drops of pellgun oil on the tips of my CO2 catridges.

BB has mentioned that sometimes you can revive an older CO2 gun seals by running some pellgun oil through them.

 
At June 19, 2009 8:49 PM, Anonymous Vulcanator said...

Shame about the C-1. The Webley Vulcan I own also has the barrel wobble. This is down to Webley using a pin instead of an adjustable bolt for the barrel pivot. Ally that with the bolt not drilled through the widest point on the cylinder leads to the breech forks getting sloppy.

I've heard that some judicious tweaking in a vice can tighten things up. I'll be interested in how you fix the problem and if it improves the grouping.

 
At June 20, 2009 10:57 AM, Blogger Sean said...

Thanks for speedy answers guys! It's probably time I buy some Pelligun oil anyway.

 
At June 20, 2009 10:20 PM, Anonymous Ralph said...

Hi folks.

Just a couple of quick questions for the experts - actually, anyone will do. I'm considering getting my first PCP air rifle.

Does the Benjamin Marauder PCP need the air gun specific scope as do springers? What would be a good hand pump for a Marauder that could easily work for other PCP guns in the future? I do realize I might need fittings and what-not, but I hope I will only need to buy one pump ever.

Thanks,

Ralph

 
At June 20, 2009 10:51 PM, Anonymous cheapskate said...

BB,

Interesting review. The small aperture of the scope sounds like a good design choice. Even if the parallax of a scope is set at infinity, the full range of parallax errors when shooting at closer targets is only (at most) as big as the objective. In that respect, a small objective is an advantage. And as BG_farmer pointed out, the exit pupil is never below 6mm (24mm objective / 4 power).

Even for shooting antelope at 300 yards, I prefer about 4-6 power. So to me, this sounds like a sensible scope.

 
At June 21, 2009 9:15 AM, Anonymous Mr B. said...

BG_Farmer,

Looks like cheapskate is on the same page with us as far as scopes go. I see alot of folks, here in the northeast deer hunting with a 300 magnum something just in case they get that "long shot". I've also see alot of blood shot venison when the deer is shot from their tree stands at 20 yards.

I'd still like to hear from someone who is shooting a on C02 relative to FPS with CPs and JSBs and accuracy--thanks.

Ralph,

No PCP's don't require the same strength scope like a springer because the PCP's have for all practical purposes have no recoil.

Mr B.

HAPPY FATHER'S DAY

word verification--torkermy

 
At June 21, 2009 9:30 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Ralph,

You do want a scope with parallax adjustment down to 10 yards, so yes on an airgun scope. You don't need it for recoil, of course. The scope above will work, but the Marauder is so accurate that you will get more from it if you get a higher magnification, like the one I used for the Marauder test.

B.B.

 
At June 21, 2009 10:03 PM, Blogger Randy-in-VA said...

Ralph,

You may want to get an airgun scope for the Marauder if you have other springers. When you up-grade the Marauder scope, you can bump it down to a springer. I try to always get the same size scope tube so that my scopes are reasonably interchangable on different guns/mounts.

 
At June 22, 2009 12:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi BB, i was wondering if you could give me some more info on the Crosman 1077. (i would've posted on the 1077 article but that one is so old....)

1. How accurate is it, could it hit some thing slightly smaller that a soda can at 30-40 yards?
2. How does it perform with the crosman pointed pellets and hollowpoints?
3. How many shots would it take for the trigger to be broken in?

Thanks

 
At June 22, 2009 1:27 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Sure, the 1077 will hit soda cans at 40 yards. It will hit pennies at 20 yards.

It should perform the best with Crosman pellets because the barrel is made for them. I've never tried it with hollowpoints or pointed pellets, but I believe it will do well with them.

The triggers vary from gun to gun. I have a brand new one that's fine as it came from the box. So each gun is a surprise. After about 1,000 shots they should all be noticeably smoother.

B.B.

 
At June 22, 2009 1:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks BB!

 
At June 22, 2009 2:43 PM, Anonymous Ralph said...

All,

Thanks for the great advice.

Ralph

 

Post a Comment

<< Home