by B.B. Pelletier
Today, I’ll test the Beeman C1 carbine for accuracy. You will remember that it was shooting on the slow side when I tested it in Part 2. That shouldn’t affect accuracy, though. You will also remember that the C1 has a single-stage trigger that many of you say you prefer. This one came from the factory rough and creepy but broke in to be smooth and sweet, if not exactly crisp.
My rifle is scoped with a BSA 2-7×32 scope. The C1 has no scope stop, so the rear ring is butted against the end of the 11mm dovetails, which end at the end cap. It’s not a good way to stop a scope, but it’s all this Webley had.
You may recall that when I got this rifle it had the scope mounted. I always wonder when I get one like that if the scope was just thrown on for looks or perhaps it lived on the rifle for many years and is sighted-in to a gnat’s eyelash. I’ve never found one of the latter, and this one certainly never knew this scope before I started shooting it. It was off by about a foot at 23 yards! What I’m saying is people don’t often sell sighted-in rifles.
I painstakingly adjusted the scope until it was hitting the point of aim–sort of. Actually, the story is much more interesting, so why don’t I tell you?
To make a long story short…
This is the first pellet rifle I have not been able to shoot well. It simply refused all my attempts to shoot a group no matter what I did. I tried a total of seven different pellets over a period of several hours and nothing worked. I tried holding it tight, loose and not at all. I shot it off the flat of my palm, the backs of my fingers and straight off the sandbag–nothing worked.
I cleaned the barrel and encountered the tightest barrel I’ve ever seen. The brass brush was so bent after cleaning that I threw it away–the first time I’ve ever done that. But even after that cleaning, the rifle remained inaccurate.
I checked the screws and they were all as tight as they would go. I wiggled the scope and it was tight. While many shooters blame their scopes for inaccuracy, I have found that it’s seldom them that causes massive inaccuracy. This scope may still be bad, but I’ll not blame it yet.
Then I wiggled the muzzle. To my surprise it rocked from side to side a quarter of an inch! Then I cocked the rifle and positioned the barrel halfway up (closed). It would not remain in position on its own. The baseblock is loose in the forks. No way is that rifle going to be accurate until that’s fixed. I’ll examine some other things before testing the rifle again, too.
By this time, I’d spent the better part of a day on this rifle, so I decided to call it quits and make my report. There’s more work ahead before this problem is resolved, so we will have a part 4.
Mornin B.B.,
This is a good looking rifle and i can tell after you get done with it it will be a tack driver. I was going to ask you lets say i have a budget of $400 for just a gun. dont worry about scopes right now. I want a gun that will take down animals of the size of raccons and possums and groundhogs. What would be my best bet? Right now i am seriously considering either an RWS 34 in .22 a Crosman Nitro Piston in .22 or an RWS 48 in .22 what else is there to look at, and what are your thoughts on these guns for the purpose? Thanks,
Brody
Brody, I would recommend the RWS 48 for the game you want to take. Get a 22 caliber. They are good rifles. They are heavy but the weight helps absorb the jolt and makes them easier to shoot.
David Enoch
Brody, if that’s your budget, you can afford the Benjamin Discovery PCP with pump! Unless you want to stay with spring piston power. Here's the start of BB’s review:
/blog/2008/01/benjamin-discovery-part-1-the-concept-and-a-brief-description-of-the-rifle/
and here’s PA’s screen:
/search-results-ext?q=discovery
You can also go cheaper by looking for used from someone who wants to upgrade from this single shot PCP to the Marauder. Perhaps even someone on this blog.
Broday,
I agree with David on the RWS 48, but FRED's suggestion of a Discovery is even better. More power and accuracy and it still doesn't blow the budget.
B.B.
Thanks guys,
I thought about the discovery but i forgot to mention i weant to stay away from pcp stuff for now. wait till im a little more advanced in airguns for that.
Thanks again,
Brody
B.B.
Vince has found the breech pivot bolt as a problem on a lot of the guns I've been buying and having him fix up.. lot's of loose barrels on the older stuff..
I bet it will tighten up great and you'll be making 1/2" groups at 23 yards! but we'll see..
I've found the same about scopes on the guns I've bought as well.. (not being sighted in).. The only pleasant exception was the most recent purchase, a Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm… It came with a Nikon 2-7×32 no AO..
But, from the rest she gave me a 4" 5- shot at 200 yards, and then the second group was 2-1/4"!..
With the cost of ammo, I finished that 20 rd box, in the FT sitting position, (5" to 7" groups).. said OK, this is good.. and put her back in her case.. she be ready! What a super sweet rifle!
Wayne
Brody,
Here is a thought for you…
I've had the RWS52.. (nicer version of the 48) and many RWS94s ..
The 48 is real nice and easy to shoot (just about as good as it gets with a springer).. But it's only a small margin more accurate than a good RWS94.. the problem is that they don't make them anymore and .22 cal is harder to find..
Vince is selling some .177 cal on the yellow now.. real cheap…
Anyway, the idea is go for a less expensive springer now, (even the Beeman RS2 .22 cal (made in China) can be pretty good).. and save up for the Evanix Blizzard s10 PCP
The Blizzard is really just as powerful as a .22 rimfire up to 50-60 yards.. it blows right through a 2×6 at 20 yards and almost comes out at 50 yards..
And more accurate than most .22lr rimfire rifles.. a lot more accurate than the average!
Or a single shot Condor in .25 cal.. now your really talking accuracy and power!!
Dabble with a low priced springer now.. then get into a good PCP asap!!
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
BB
The crosman site says the nitro(npss)
is just over 6 lbs.and right under 44 in.
PA says it's 9lbs.and 46 in.
Just curious who got their wires crossed
on this one:)or is it one of those they said but we measured kind of things:)
JTinAL
BB. will you be testing the air venturi hale storm? I am stuck between the hale storm and the maurauder. Please give me some in sight on this choice..thanks…
James,
I will be testing the Hale Storm.
B.B.
JTinAL,
The figures on Pyramyd Air's website were from an info document Crosman sent to all vendors. Of course, the length & weight reference the display box & not the gun. Since Crosman has now indicated the figures for the gun only, I'll update the gun specs on Pyramyd's site.
Thanks,
Edith
Edith
Thanks I didn't know it was for the box
that makes a difference huh:)
JTinAL
Hey Tom how are you?
I have a Blue Streak and want to buy a Crosman Nitro.22Cal. and I was wondering how loud is the Nitro compared to the CB9? A .22 Nitro would be as loud as firing a Blue Streak at how many pumps?
also would you reccomend the artillery hold for the Nitro?
Thanks
Brody,
I am suggesting that you follow B.B.'s advice on this one, re the RWS 48. However, how about some more details from you please. What is the distance you plan on shooting these critters at? Will you be carrying alot while hunting, ie, will weight be a consideration? How important is quiet to your shooting?
The Crosman Nitro is an unknown at this time, but the gas piston has alot going for it.
You know, maybe Wacky Wayne has the right idea–buy them all and enjoy!
Mr B.
B.B.
Good detective work to find the loose muzzle. I was all set with my advice based on a gun report about a rifle that would not shoot no matter what the writer did: trigger job, screw tightening, glass bedding…. He said that he must have discovered some new principle. But he never found out quite what that was.
Thanks for the info from mythbusters which I will pass on. I wasn't going to stick my finger in a gun muzzle anyway. Between that and the flaws of trying to draw on someone holding you up, I would say that the LAPD is not doing well.
Brody, my experiences with the B30 lead me to strongly recommend the RWS 48. Wayne has got a point about saving your money now for a pcp. However, I think that there's something to be said for something that is good of its kind. I believe that within any hunting distance, the RWS 48 will do the job as well as a pcp.
BG_Farmer, thanks for your recommendation of Cabela's. I had always thought of them as an equipment outfitter and had not paid attention to their guns. But their blackpowder selection looks very good, and I've certainly had good luck with the bow that I bought from them.
I finally got around to reading the American Rifleman article on the Kentucky rifle, and it's interesting. I would have preferred a bit more technical detail about the guns themselves, but the exploits of the shooters were interesting too. I've changed my mind and hereby promote both the Kentucky rifle and the Hawken rifle to the status of icons. The Kentucky rifle is defined as a class of rifles with especially long barrels made by German immigrants to the colonies. The Hawken rifle is a flintlock design with a shorter barrel and higher caliber made by a famous gunsmith named Hawken and carried by the likes of Kit Carson and other famous trappers. Both apparently functioned very well and for the exploits of the Revolution on the one hand and exploring the West on the other (I see that the Hawken rifle is also known as the "Plains rifle"), both qualify as far as I'm concerned.
The stage is set for the blackpowder workshop tomorrow but they have some convincing to do with me. Despite what I've said about the Daniel Boone ideal of slipping into the woods, the idea of going into the wilderness with a weapon that requires almost a cooking recipe to prepare each shot never made much sense to me. And from the point of view of safety, I'm reminded of the John Wayne film version of the Alamo. All is lost at the end, and Wayne runs into the storeroom for the powder with a blazing torch….
Matt61
Fused, congratulations on your 2nd degree in TKD. I wonder what your colleagues think of your airgunning. In my experience, it's not that common for martial artists to cross over into shooting. I agree with you about scoping the territory in advance. I'm a believer in the maxim that if you're in a fair fight your tactics suck. How much more true of being caught at a disadvantage.
Regarding the Delta Force book, I read it too and strongly recommend it. I even wrote Haney through his publisher but never got a response. Anyway, the book is uniquely well and intelligently written which is not common for this genre. I've read any number of book about Navy Seals and special forces and despite their incredible material, they don't have that much to say.
Haney is different. As I remember their close quarter battle procedure, it was done with the old grease gun, not 1911 pistols, and he claimed that their bullets came within millimeters of the Delta Force troopers playing the role of hostages. I find this a little hard to believe with this particular weapon which I always thought was inaccurate. Haney's shooting some terrorist through the lip at over 300 yards was also very impressive.
One question I had while reading the book was how Haney was allowed to release so much detailed information about such a secretive organization which the army would not even acknowledge for a long time. The word is that Delta Force does not know the answer to this one either and that Haney is persona non grata among the Delta Force community for this reason.
I have to say one of the most memorable parts of that book is the killer psychological testing of the candidates. After running around a desert for 40 miles, they are hauled in and asked questions like: Would you perform a homosexual act for the sake of national security…. Well, I wasn't planning to apply to Delta Force anyway.
Matt61
Ben,
The Nitro will sound like one or possibly two pumps.
Absolutely use the artillery hold with the Nitro.
B.B.
Brody,
Look at Crosman's website blog. They have a very good review with an honest assesment of the realistic power expectations of the Nitro. This may be a great gun according to preliminary feedback, but the power is more in the lines of the Benjamin 392, not the RWS 48. The reviewer says that you can expect upper 600's with 14.3 grain pellets. Maybe suited for things up to Cotton Tails at moderate range, but maybe not for racoons, 'possums and groundhogs from what I've learned.
I can tell you this with certainty, Wayne's advice is good, he gave the same advice to me. The 94's that Vince has are nice guns. I received mine the other day and was very pleasantly surprised when I opened the package. Not sure what I was expecting, but what I got was a really nice rifle. Haven't had a chance to shoot it much yet, but am really looking forward to it this weekend. Just so you know though, there is no stop pin hole at all (I guess on this one RWS said 'ours don't work anyway so what's the point') and no scope stop either. I've been told that if you're going to scope it, get a good 4-screw one piece mount and maybe a screw on stop in addition. IMHO a small price (literally) for a really nice rifle.
Actually, Fused, RWS doesn't make anything. They import stuff.
The 'normal' RWS guns are made by Diana of Germany. The 90 series (92, 93, 94) are by Cometa of Spain. A few years ago they even imported the Chinese BAM-built B20 and sold it as the RWS320.
B.B, I'm thinking of purchasing an airforce talon. I am wondering if a regular rifle scope would work on it. By regular rifle scope, I mean one that is not suitable for a spring piston air rifle.
Who manufactures the HaleStorm?
Red,
Sure a firearm scope will work on a Talon or Talon SS.
B.B.
ajvenom,
Hatsan makes the HaleStorm. It's the Pneuma made into a repeater.
B.B.
Matt61,
Shooting is my dirty little secret for now. My colleagues don't need to know.
B.B.,
Turns out I can really use that video on the artillery hold.
BB – thanks….
Brody – For rabbits, possiums and coons, a Crosman Quest .22 is what I use. It's modded a little, but if I had to start over a RWS Striker .22 has about what I like for the money.
A ground hog or possibly a badger have tough sculls…..I would recommend something with a little more powerful….
Discovery will give you that power plus better accuracy (most likely)than springers off the shelf.
RWS 48 would fit the bill nicely too.
A benji superstreak definately is powerful.
Best bet is find away to try a few models out. As what your interested in, you can't go wrong with the rws 48. Just remember it may be a little more pickier to load than break barrels, but the trade off is a smoother platform and hopefully better accuracy.
Brody,
On the yellow now is a RWS52 in .177 like new with box and papers for $275!
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1245256671/FOR+SALE+-+NEAR+NEW+RWS+DIANA+52+(.177)
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
BB,
The pivot is a good place to start, if it is that loose:). The tightness of the bore confuses me — either it was manufactured on the small side of the spec. or has accumulated something nasty in it, as well as being possibly rough. Did you use any solvents in it — if the pivot is that worn, it might possibly be built up with something, although I assume you pushed a pellet through and saw sharp rifling… Not trying to pester, just love these kinds of things:).
Matt,
That Cabela's blackpowder rig does look pretty nice. One of my brothers recommended it to me. I'm thinking about making one from parts, mainly so I can use some old logs I have here for a stock. I recently met a serious BP enthusiast who makes everything himself, and he offered to help out. We'll see…I seem to accumulate projects like dogs pick up fleas:).
I wonder if Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett ever worried that much about the dangers and difficulties of blackpowder:). Completely tangentially, when we were talking about KLR's last, I got curious and of course eventually ran across the Wikipedia entry for Davy Crockett. If you haven't read the Congressional Record of his speech they have in that article, you need to do it right away. If we had more politicians that conducted themselves that way, there would be no reason to fear big government:).
WOW, B.B the NITRO will really be that quiet?(like a CB9 pumped 1 or 2 times?)
did you try both .22 and .177 Nitro's? which caliber was quieter?
thanks
Elis,
I did shoot both the .22 and .177 Nitro Piston guns, but it was two months apart.As memory serves, the .177 was quietest.
B.B.
Hi every body. Happy Father's Day to one and all!
I have a question about the Marauder. Is anyone shooting one on CO2? How does it shoot–accuracy and FPS with CPs or JSBs? I'm looking for a low powered backyard plinker coupled with a powerful hunter.
From all I've read the powerful hunter is there, but how about the low powered backyard plinker?
Thank you for your imputs.
Mr B.
Mr. B.
As I think B.B. eluded to in his first post on the Marauder, you set it for the power you want, and leave it.. and I'm so happy with the number of shots with JSB 8.4 at about 960fps
But, I haven't tried it on CO2, that should lower the fps and give many more shots.. so just the switch might do what you want..
I'm not setup with CO2 except for the carts for the pistols.. and I don't think they will work!
But, if you plan to use one gun for both, I still say the best so far I've tried would be the Air Arms s410 with the smoothest, easiest sidelever, the power adjuster at your fingertips that gives you 450fps to 1,100fps in .177 10.2 JSB heavy!!
This is a big difference in the PCP world, that power adjuster allows you to bring your poi back up as you stretch all the possible shots from your guns tank… (if I start at 750fps with 8.4 JSB I can get 130 shots per fill at target practice!)
And when you need to make a big hole in some animal, a 16gr .177 Eunjin is there waiting to go 875fps on full power.. What else could you possibly ask a air rifle to do? (all in one gun that is)
No other PCP I've tried yet can do that..
Wacky Wayne,
Ashand Air Rifle Range ..
and unpaid Air Arms rep:)
Mr. B – Hopefully, I'll be able to answer your question after July 4. I'm supposedly on PA's list for the second batch of Marauders, and I plan to use CO2 until I can afford a hand pump. After that will be the 72 CI tank. I've been collecting a variety of pellets to test. I promised BB a mini-report on the CO2.
BB – The Benjamin tank was designed for the Discovery and has the output regulated to 2000 psi. Can that be adjusted to 2500 or 3000 psi for the Marauder? Also, I've seen HPA paintball tanks that look identical to the Benjamin tank, but the output is only 850 psi. Can they be adjusted for a PCP? They are a heck of a lot cheaper.
Randy,
By "adjusted" you really mean "re-engineered, because the regulators in the systems have to be changed. You could probably do it.
B.B.
B.B.,
There ia a myth that handpumps are bad/not recommended for the PCPs.
Is this true?
Jeff in Dallas
I learned a useful lesson about AO while shooting my .22 the other day. Most of you may already know it, but I'll throw it out there anyway.
After shooting at 25 yards on my previous outing with the scope at 9X and getting beautiful 0.2" groups, I had switched to 50 yards, where I was getting worse groups than the time before when I left it at 3X, despite being clearly focused for 50 yards at 9X. Between shooting sessions, I thought about this and realized it must be parallax, so next time out, I started at 50 yards and 9X and got crappy groups again:). I did notice that even though the image was clearly focused, the crosshairs moved in relation to the target, so I started changing the objective until the crosshair/target movement stopped, even though I had a fuzzy image. The groups shrank from 1" to less than 1/2":) immediately, and it was consistent so I continued to shoot it that way. Near the end of the session, it occurred to me that I could probably fix the focus problem and still retain parallax correction by playing with the ocular bell adjustment, but I ran out of time and so just left it alone.
That night I searched for validation of my theory and found this link which has a great procedure for setting up the scope to make sure that proper focus and parallax adjustment coincide:
http://ateam.100free.com/ateamh/A_Team_Parallax_adj.htm
Anyway, you field target and benchrest regulars may already know all this, but for me, accustomed mainly to shooting offhand at low powers — if I use a scope at all, it was quite interesting, and I thought it might help someone else out as well. It seems like some AO scopes may be close to adjusted properly by chance, because I don't remember ever coming across anyone reporting a problem like this before, but now that I know it, I'll pay attention to the adjustment procedure.
Jeff,
There are those who say that a hand pump introduces water into a PCP. Well, so does a scuba tank if it's not operated correctly.
If you operate the hand pump right, it should be fine.
B.B.
BB, if i want to use the Crosman NITRO for Cottontails, and squirrels, would .177cal be ok?
also are .177 airguns usually quieter than .22Cal guns?
Thanks again…. and a video of the artillery hold would really help me out too.
BG_Farmer,
Well there young feller, that expains what I've been blaming on those little floaters I get in my eye balls. Very interesting.
Wayne,
Thanks for your reply. Do you have any experience with a 22 s410, that you can share with me? Thanks.
Mr B.
Maybe I'm missing something, but why is the Pneuma more expensive than the HaleStorm?
B.B.
Good to know about the pcp handpump. I had been wondering.
BG_Farmer, I confess that I still do not have a handle on parallax. Even if it is not adjusted correctly, shouldn't you be getting the same size groups without hitting at point of aim?
That's quite a speech by Davy Crockett but no worse than a lot of what appears in the papers.
Well, I have completed the blackpowder seminar and it was certainly illuminating. I thought blackpowder caused hassle but I had no conception of how much. If I remember correctly, to load, you must carefully measure the powder not pour directly from the horn; lube your ball and wad; use one tool to poke it down the barrel; use another tool to poke it further; use the ramrod to seat the charge. It has to be firmly at the bottom otherwise an air space could blow up your gun, but not too tight or you will get huge velocity variations.
In a flintlock you can misfire quite commonly from moisture collecting in the pan or powder caking on the insides. One cure is a sort of steel needle to crush the powder, and there are various alcohol based formulas for cleaning and drying the gun. I don't know what Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett thought about this equipment but as far as I'm concerned, it was not up to the job any more than cutting your lawn with a pocket knife. Of course, the West was settled much sooner than anyone thought. For the massive improvement in reliability brought about by the percussion cap, I hereby promote th 1861 Springfield rifled musket to the status of icon.
I was not overly impressed before shooting the guns, but the experience changed my mind. They were very smooth-shooting and extremely accurate. One owner claims that he can hold an offhand five shot group at 50 yards of 1.5 inches CTC. This leads to a question. How can the guns sustain that kind of accuracy with the abuse of the muzzle from the loading rod? I don't get it.
I have to credit my 20 foot air gun range again. I was within an inch of the bull standing at 25 yards with the Kentucky rifle, and I rang a two foot gong at 50 yards with the Hawken rifle. I was hoping that my snap shooting practice would help me with the shotgunning but I totally missed the clays. They flew off undisturbed.
Matt61
Matt,
I'm no optics expert, but from what I understand, you will get the same groups, albeit off-aim, IF your eye stays in the same position relative to the sight through out all of your shots. That is, if your eye moves relative to the optic in between shots, you will not get the same groups
Matt,
If you place your eye in exactly the same place each time, then you'll get a "perfect" group displaced according to the eye's displacement from the optical axis, but since it is almost impossible to do that, especially when you think parallax shouldn't be an issue, the group spreads out more or less randomly with the variation in eye placement. Or so I think:).
I would vote for Davy in a second:).
Thanks for the report on your seminar: Sounds like you'll be getting into black powder! I never thought about the muzzle question, but I have to wonder, too. Good shooting with the thunderstick. What were the lock times like on the ones you shot? I actually think that would make more difference with the shotguns, so there's a good excuse for you:).
Kiwi,
I just saw you typed something similar to me — I think we must be right:).
Mr.B.
I don't have a .22 cal Air Arms s410 now, but I've had two .22 cal carbines in the past.. I remember them being slightly louder than the .177 cal. and less shots per fill.. I didn't have them very long because the factory magazines didn't work real smooth when I got them.. and
I didn't know about RC Machine aftermarket mags then, or that the issue could be the quality of the mags… not the sidelever.. so I sent them back.. sorry I did!
But in general, you get a lot more foot pounds and less shots per fill.. accuracy is still right on! Power adjuster still give a wide range of fps..
Kevin, are you there? Tell Mr. B. about your .22 cal AAs410.. wasn't it like 1/2" groups at 50 yards?
Wayne
I need advise. I know nothing about air rifles. I have just put a reseal kit in my Dad's Benjamin 317. I believe it was built in the 30's. It hasn't been shot since the 40's but thanks to the kit it seems to be building good pressure. How do I clean the barrel? Is this a cal .177? Do I keep one pump of air in it at all times? The barrel has come loose from the tube at the muzzle, can that be fixed? Any advise is appreciated. I would like to shoot this gun but want to make sure it is cared for. Thanks, Ray
I can't help you with anything but the caliber. Benjamin guns in .177 caliber are named 3×7, and guns in .22 caliber are named 3×2, so you have a .177. This website backs this up:
– http://www.bradwood.com/airrifle/ –
Also, I believe you keep one pump in it at all times, like other multi-strokes, but I can't say for certain. Sorry.
rayhallett,
Kiwi90 is rig=ht about the caliber/model number correlation for Benjamin.
Yes, always keep a pump of air in the gun during storage.
With the 317, a good solderer can reattach the muzzle. Or you might try JB Weld.
Never, never NEVER clean a brass airgun barrel. Just shoot the gun and the pellets take care of all the cleaning you need.
B.B.
Elis,
I always recommend a .22 over a .177 for any hunting. Yes, .177 is usually quieter than .22.
B.B.
I worked on my 953…I didn't do the full pilkgun….just polished, lubed and lighten a few things with no adjustment screw addded. Maybe someday I will shave and cut fully and add the adjustment screw.
I did however end up at 2.25 LBS trigger pull and pretty happy now. Nice thing is the trigger return spring and the hammer spring are different, unlike the 22SG or the 880 modles.
So if you don't hear from me in a while, now you know why.
Kiwi90 and BG_Farmer,
I had supposed that moving your eye relative to the scope would increase group size in all cases. Is it worse with parallax?
I won't be getting into blackpowder any time soon. This seems to be the ideal area for people who like to tinker as part of their shooting experience. During the seminar, they talked at length about extended lock times which they tried to illustrate with sounds. The percussions were click..boom. And the flintlocks were click….poof….whish…boom. In practice, the locktimes of both seemed instantaneous to me. I didn't even notice the considerable sparking produced by the flintlock. Once you get through the hassle of loading and pull the trigger, you do sense the magic; maybe that's what kept people going with gun development. Shotgunning does seem very difficult with blackpowder or smokeless. Any clays that want to survive should sign up for when I'm shooting. The 50 yard gong was also utterly innocent of the shot I fired with a percussion pistol. But I can't hit anything at 50 yards even with my 1911.
I was thinking of the film Jeremiah Johnson last night. There's a scene when Johnson is on the warpath after a party of Indians who have wiped out his family. There isn't a lot of subtlety to his method. He walks up to the whole group with both rifles loaded; fires them off; swings away with the longer one; pulls various rifles and pistols from his belt and wipes them all out. The whole thing looks fairly plausible and even somewhat smooth and poetic. So, I guess with practice you could make the muzzle loaders work for you.
I'm also reminded of the English critic D.H. Lawrence who tries to take the Deerslayer character from the James Fenimore Cooper novels as a representative of America. At the end of his essay, he says something like what is represented by the Deerslayer is "stoic, hard, a killer; it has not yet melted." I suppose this is the kind of mentality that could head out into the wilderness with a muzzle loader. It also, for me, helps to explain the otherwise baffling behavior of the Republicans in the past few years with their screw you attitude towards everyone. It's not much of a basis for a foreign policy or even a domestic policy, but in the right circumstances, I suppose it can accomplish a lot.
Matt61
models
I have such a hard time typing on my laptop with a 3 year old jumping on me.
BTW………..HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!!!!!!!!
ajvenom,
Good deal with the 953 trigger job. Keep us informed?
B.B.
The big difference was when I lighten the sear spring.
When I was done, I banged it around a bit to make sure it wouldn't go off on it's own.
Shoot like a dream.
Matt61, help me out here. It sure seems like you're trolling… your political statement seems completely out of context and logically makes no sense whatsoever. What gives?
I know I'm a noob here, but please no politics. I just like reading about guns, both powder and air.
(Plus, I know I'll end up getting involved)
PS: These word verifications are always wierd – 'grusnes'?
Matt,
What you describe is the result of parallax.
I would say that Lawrence's view is somewhat effete, for lack of a better word.
Politics I only discuss with my jack ass, as he offers more insight into the fine points of government than any other creature I know.
Matt61, what the heck does this have to do with airguns? Or with reasoned thought?
"It also, for me, helps to explain the otherwise baffling behavior of the Republicans in the past few years with their screw you attitude towards everyone. It's not much of a basis for a foreign policy or even a domestic policy, but in the right circumstances, I suppose it can accomplish a lot.
Matt61"
Mr. B,
Just saw your comment on the scopes. Yes, a .300 mag is the minimum for a humane harvest of eastern whitetail, especially if it dresses out over 40 lbs. With the monster whitetails here (sometimes over 100lbs.), .338 is even better without being excessive, and the larger bullet busts the brush that its always such a good idea to shoot through. I have a 2-40×60 side focus Swarovski on mine, so I'm able to handle anything.
On the other hand, if I know the range is not likely to be beyond 20 yards, I'll sometimes just take my .45-70 guide gun with a Weaver T-24 on it. Inside its limitations, it's an accurate, sweet-handling, hard-hitting rig as the gun mags say:).
Hey guys,
On tuesday I had a rather unfortunate and painful airgunning accident that forced me to ask myself some questions, some of which call my intelligence into question, but I won't get into that much here. By the way, I've learned my lesson about this more than questionable method I've devised and have resolved to never use it again.
For as long as I can remember I've checked the air pressure in my air rifles one very stupid way (here comes the intelligence bit), by putting a finger in front of the hopefully empty rifle and pulling the trigger, thus expelling the compressed air or CO2. Now every single time I've done this I've made sure the clip or chamber was empty by either looking down the barrel from the breech like i used to do with my old springer (what i did was dumb, but I'm not stupid enough to look straight down the business end of the barrel of any gun, air or otherwise) or by removing the rotary clip and firing off a series of shots that ensured the barrel was completely empty as I did with my good old Walther lever action. I've done this every time except for one. The one time I didn't, the one time I was confident enough in my ability to count to eight, i pulled the trigger and a pellet tore straight through my pinky waiting at the end. Yes, I know this was a dumb move. The hole in my finger, the multiple trips to the hospital, and the bandages and splint on my now shattered and "holey" pinky prove this point. Now enough calling my intelligence into question and onto the questions I'd like to pose to the airgunning community.
Points of interest:
1) A Gamo match pellet ripped through flesh and bone. It entered the pad of my finger, literally shattered the tip, and flew out underneath my fingernail.
2) A medium powered air rifle topping off at no more than 650 FPS at best was capable of doing that much damage
3) I've conducted homemade ballistics gel tests in my basement before and with both batches I mixed the shortest distance a pellet penetrated into the gel was three inches, and that was with wadcutters. Beeman extended range hunting pellets penetrated 6 inches and then kept going (I only had six inches to play with).
NOTE:
*The ballistics gel tests were to check the relative strength of different pellets, and nothing more*
Questions:
A wadcutter went in one side of my finger, shattered the bone, and went out underneath the nail. What would something like a Gamo Masterpoint or a hollow point have done if I had been unlucky enough to been using those? My guess is that a hollow point would have made my finger tip explode like a cherry bomb.
A medium powered pellet rifle like the my walther is capable of doling out absolutely devastating damage with pellets designed for target shooting. Why then would a highpowered air rifle like a springer or a PCP rifle like the Sumatra 2500 not be a viable home defense gun if it were kept charged? Why wouldn't my Walther for that matter serve that purpose with the right pellets?
On a similar note, if my rifle is powerful enough to shred a pinky, then shouldn't it have enough power to hunt smaller game and pests like mice, rats, squirrels, and even the odd crow if the shots were fired from around 30 feet away or less?
So that's it in a nutshell. It's an airgunning nightmare, it's one of the single dumbest moves I've ever made, it's a lesson I've learned that I'll never forget as long as I live and breathe, and it was and still is quite painful. I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone has to say about all this, but please refrain from cracking jokes and telling me how stupid I am for putting my finger in front of a loaded rifle. I know it was stupid and I still feel like an idiot. Anyway, my friends, family, and girlfriend have already gotten in their chuckles and given me their obligatory speeches on safety. Thanks for hanging in with me on this one everybody, I know it's a long post.
Best regards,
-Alex
Alex,
Thank you for having the courage to share your accident with all of us. Yes a medium, power pellet rife can kill small game. With the right, read lucky, shot placement I killed a crow with my 1377 on 3 pumps at 15 feet. However that same gun on 10 pumps would not "finish off" a possum with head shots at point blank range. A couple of crows have fallen to my Talon SS running on CO2–again in your medium power range. It all comes down to shot placement and NOT taking the shot if you cann't get the right placemant.
Addressing your self defense questions. Unless you're shooting a big bore rifle the other PCP's are like a 22 long rifle at best. You won't find anyone who says a 22 is a good self defense round. That being said I have been known to carry a North American Arms 22 when concealment is my primary consideration. I call it my turn me loose gun. Also inside a house the PCP's are just to long and unweildy.
Mr B.
OMG…OMB!!!!!
I wish you a speedy recovery.
I admit, I have tested the pressure, this way, with a low powered pellet guns. Never again will I do that after reading your story.
Thanks for sharing your story and hopefully this never happens to anyone else.
Matt 61
I don't think you sound like a troll….just blogging about what's on your mind. Sometimes we all need to do that.
I would mind trying a black poweder rifle for deer hunting some day. It allows for a longer season or extra tags. Same with bow hunting.
I like to write songs sometimes and sometimes I just like to goof around. Here is one I wrote for an anti I met at another airgun site to the tune of Rawhide:
Trollhide
Trollin' Trollin' Trollin'
Keep movin', movin', movin',
Though they're disapprovin',
Keep them doggies movin' Trollhide!
Don't try to understand 'em,
Just rope and throw and grab 'em,
Soon we'll be living high and wide.
Boy my heart's calculatin'
My true love will be waitin', be waiting at the end of my ride.
Move 'em on, head 'em up,
Head 'em up, move 'em out,
Move 'em on, head 'em out Trollhide!
Set 'em out, ride 'em in
Ride 'em in, let 'em out,
Cut 'em out, ride 'em in Trollhide.
I’m a big fan of this blog, mainly because of the great information from BB and all the people who post comments, but also because of the lack of politically offensive signatures that often accompany comments on the other gun forums. I am a liberal tree-hugging environmentalist gun owning democrat (Oxymoron = liberal democrat + gun owner).
I also own: Remington Model 12 and 14, Savage 25, Savage Model 24C, CZ-452 Trainer, Browning Buckmark Challenge, S & W K-22 Masterpiece, Crossman Quest 800X, Crossman 1377 and a Daisy Red Rider. Please don’t ever think that liberals don’t shoot guns, don’t hunt or want to defend themselves or their families.
Maryland (where I live) has far more liberal hunting regulations than New Hampshire (where I visit). For example, longer seasons, larger bag limits, and anything you can shoot with a long gun you can shoot with a hand gun !!!
Thanks for letting me rant, and I edited a bunch of stuff out so I hopefully don’t offend anyone.
Perra Dog
Perra Dog,
I think you will find this blog loaded with readers of the liberal persuasion. Wayne is one and Matt is another. I think you'll see we are fair and balanced as far as readership goes.
As a former Marylander (21 years) I now appreciate what real gun freedom is. Living in Texas, I can buy a handgun and take it with me–no state police involvement and no wait. After the federal check I'm good to go. And I can buy more than one a month, which I have, several times!
B.B..
I guess I'm sort of a Blue Steel Democrat. I also like things on the Republican side. A good Independant would be nice, but you don't see them get very far.
Welcome aboard Perra Dog!!!!!
wooooo woooooo [train whistle]
Hi guys,
Thanks for the help and advice. I figured I had a responsibility after the accident to let everyone I could know what these little guys are capable of. Please to everyone out there, don't check air pressure like this. Grab a piece of paper or something, it's not worth almost blowing off your finger tips. Honestly they said I'm lucky to even have a finger at this point. I have a new found respect for my air rifle now and see it more than a target practice gun. It is to be treated with the same respect as a firearm and it is therefore a weapon. I apologize for taking so long to respond. It was a combination of a crazy week filled with doctors appointments and work and a computer malfunction.
Best regards to everyone,
-Alex
P.S. Though It's a nasty injury it hasn't kept me from doing what I love to do. Within a week of it I was shooting again, but I've been far more careful. If you fall off the horse, get right back up again. Happy airgunning guys!
OMB1080,
Thanks for letting us know that you're doing better partner.
Mr B
R. Stephen Best, Sr.,
No, a shop air compressor will not fill a Benjamin discovery. They go up to only 175 psi, and you need 2,000 psi.
You need either a special compressor (which Pyramyd AIR sells) or a hand pump or scuba tank to fill the Discovery with high pressure air.
B.B.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hi there.
I came across this Googling "Beeman C1" as, I have a barely used .177 C1 that I have had for decades but don't know much about. I know the Beeman SS-x scopes were de riguer for these rifles back in the day, but they were too expensive for me then and still are (when they turn up). What scope and mount would you recommend? It seems like one of the Leapers Bug Buster models with an appropriate mount would be good and within budget. I think a small scope would be best on this small rifle. Which would you recommend or is there a similar but better choice?
Thanks, Doug
Doug,
For a C1 a Bug Buster should work okay. Be sure to use two-piece scope rings so you can position it where you want it, and BKL mounts might be necessary, because I don't think the C1 has a scope stop, does it?
B.B.
Doug,
I think a bugbuster is the right size scope for a C1.
Be aware that bugbuster scopes have a very short eye relief. This requires a mount that will position the scope further back on the gun than normal.
The lack of a built in scope stop on the C1 narrows your choices of scope mounts even further.
The two piece BKL cantilever mounts are a great solution but expensive.
The Leapers Bi-Directional mounts have been used successfully for mounting bugbusters on a C1 if you but the base of the mount against the receiver cap so it can't move rearward during the shot cycle.
Pyramyd AIR carries both of these mounts and the bugbuster line of scopes.
kevin
Thanks Kevin :^)
What about the 4x vs. 6x vs. 3-9x? Price differences are negligible but the 3-9 is a fair amount heavier. There is another Leaper scope that seems like a decent choice, the Golden Image 4x. It has 35 yard parallax (which should be fine), is about the same weight as the Bug Buster and half the price but is at least 3" longer. Thoughts?
Doug
Doug,
Scope preference is very personal. Like a debate over boxers or briefs 😉
For this reason I don't recommend scopes to anyone.
Several observations. I strongly advise you to get a scope with AO (an Adjustable Objective) that can focus down to 10 yards or less for your C1. I'm almost sure you will be disappointed in a scope with fixed parallax.
A lighter scope is better than a heavy scope for a C1. Variable magnification gives you more flexibility, i.e., low magnification for hunting, high magnification for precision paper shooting.
The C1 is a very hold sensitive rifle. Learn the artillery hold. There's a great video on the Pyramyd AIR website. Try a variety of pellets since all airguns prefer different pellets. Don't just use pellets available locally. Order quality pellets like jsb, crosman premiers in the cardboard box and don't overlook pellets made by H & N. Buy domed pellets for your C1. Don't buy match/wadcutter pellets, pointed pellets, plastic tipped pellets or hollowpoint pellets.
Please keep us up to date on your progress and ask your future questions on the current daily blog. You can find the tab on the opening page of the Pyramyd AIR website. Click on "Airgun Blog".
There are airgunners just like you, from all over the world, commenting about their experiences, asking questions and providing answers. Very friendly place. Look forward to seeing you there.
kevin
I have a C1 .177 bought over 30 years ago. shoots hard. Great shape. Also HW35 great shape but underpowered. Bought in England. Anybody interested in buying or swapping?
Gaz,
Welcome to the blog. This posting is 5 years old and isn’t seen by many people.
Go here to post free airgun ads:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574
B.B.
Hi BB. Thank you for your answer. I recently got a hatsan vortex .22. I was disappointed in the quality control. And I got an RWS 460 that I sleep with. It is so sweet. All the best. Gaz
Gaz,
Those Diana airguns are great, aren’t they?
Hatsan does make fine PCP rifles. You should read some of my reports of them.
/blog/2014/07/hatsan-at44-10-long-qe-part-5/
B.B.
Hi, I have been rebuilding my airguns from my youth and really enjoying them. 1377,RWS Mod45,C1 in 22cal. I found this article about the loose barrel on the C1 and wondered if it was ever resolved. Mine is in the same shape. I never shot it much when I was a kid since I had the RWS45, In fact I doubt I even broke it in way back then. So I don’t believe wear is the issue.
Thanks,
Tony
Tony,
Welcome to the blog.
There are a couple different ways of tightening the C1 pivot joint. One is by squeezing together the pivot arms on the spring tube in a vise. Another is by using shims (bearings) on the sides of the base block. The second one is what most people do.
Read this multi-part report where I fixed a lot of issues, including a loose pivot joint.
/blog/2014/08/bsa-meteor-part-9/
B.B.