by B.B. Pelletier
I know I’ve mentioned these pistols before, but I cannot find any report on them. The other day, I wanted to send a link to a reader who asked about them, and was surprised to see I hadn’t done a full report. Then, before I could even say that in a reply, several other readers chimed in to mention they love their pistols as well. So, I knew I had to do this one.
This is part one, and I will try to finish in part two, so velocity and accuracy will be in the same report. I have a 78G today, but I’ve owned several of these in both calibers over the years. The 79G is the .177. They used to show up at airgun shows new in the box for $100, which is where my first one came from. And that one was different from the norm, so I’d like to mention the differences now.
That 78G was a very early one–made in Springfield, Mass., before S&W moved production of the pistol to Tampa, Fla. Production lasted from 1970 to 1978, according to S&W historian, Roy Jenks. The Blue Book of Airguns differs just a little. The box and literature is where you will see the different addresses. All the guns say Springfield, I believe.
The early guns had some distinctive points. First, they were finished matte black. Later guns had a shiny black paint. Second, the early guns have an adjustable trigger. Reader Twotalon was kind enough to forward pictures of his gun so you can see these things.
The other feature those early guns had was one I reported in Airgun Revue 3 but caught considerable flack for it. They had two stages of power–controlled when the gun was cocked. Stop at the first click for low power. Two clicks were high power–the same as for the Crosman Mark I and II pistols, which the S&W pistols functionally resemble more than a little. People told me their guns had only one power level, and I must be mistaken. Well, I no longer owned an early pistol when I wrote that report, so I figured I had made a mistake, but Twotalon reported yesterday that his early pistol does have two power levels. So, the early guns have it and the later guns, which are the most numerous, do not.
All the guns have adjustable power. A screw under the barrel at the front of the gun controls the tension on the hammer spring and can move the power up or down by screwing in or out.
My current 78G is one that the former owner had to repair. He did a wonderful job, fixing the loading bolt lock on a potmetal gun. It wasn’t holding gas when I got it, so I sent it off to Dave Gunter, a custom airgunsmith in Oregon. Dave specializes in power tunes for CO2 guns and pneumatics. Where a normal 78G might get 390 f.p.s. with a .22-caliber Crosman Premier on high power and 290 on low, my gun now gets over 500 f.p.s. Or at least that’s what it got when I first tested it years ago. We shall see!
Dave does some non-standard things when he tunes one of these pistols. One thing he does is thin the bolt probe for better gas flow. His full-time job is setting up racing engines for performance sports cars, so efficient gas flow is something he knows well. You can contact Dave here.
The 78G is the .22 caliber version and the 79G is the .177. After S&W stopped production, they sold the tooling to Daisy. They continued making the guns for several years as models 780 and 790. Their triggers were much worse than even the later Smith pistols. Later, Daisy changed the designation to model 41 and further cheapened the gun in every imaginable way.
Physical description
The 78G is a very realistic copy of the S&W model 41 target pistol in .22 rimfire caliber. The weight and dimensions are very close, with the air pistol’s 43.5 oz. being slightly heavier than the rimfire pistol’s 42 oz. with the 7.5″ barrel. The external dimensions are very close, and the wood grips on the firearm are faithfully reproduced in plastic on the airgun. But it’s the realistic kind of plastic that fools people!
My current pistol came in a factory box with five S&W powerlets and a tin of 250 pellets. This is the most common presentation I have seen of this pistol in the years I’ve been in airgunning. At some airguns shows, I’ve seen 50 of these boxes stacked up at a show awaiting a sale. Today, though, people are starting to pay good money for one, even without the box and papers.
The trigger on this example is a single stage with some creep, but it’s not too bad. Many of my firearm handguns are not as nice. And I will report on accuracy next time, but I know from past experience that this is an accurate airgun. There’s more to come!
Articles like this is what I read your column for.
BB
That is the same pistol my buddy has. His looks brand new and is still in the box. I don't think its been shot in 20 years. I'll print out your write up and give him a copy. Keep up the good work and thanks I read your blog every morning.
78g
Thank you for this slice of airgun history. Too bad the Daisy reduced the quality as time went on.
Morning B.B.,
What neat looking gun. When I first saw the picture of twotalons' gun, my question was, "who made those custom walnut grips?" If it shoots as good as it looks, I just might have to look for one. About what are they selling for these days? Looking fwd to the rest of this report.
Mr B.
Mr. B.,
I see the gun only going for $100-125. In the box like mine they bring $150-250. Boxed examples are more common than the gun by itself, but I expect that to change in a few years.
B.B.
Mr B
Mine always shot as good as I could hold it…even with the old crosman pellets.
The S&W pellets shot very good in the 78G, and were really spectacular in my second Crosman 1400..which also shot the old crosman flat noses pretty darn well.
I would think that the Jsb Exacts might be a great pellet for this gun.
I could test for MV, but as for accuracy…no way. My eyes are shot for handgun shooting.
twotalon
twotalon and B.B.,
Thank you both for your replies. I can sure relate to the eye stuff. However, I've been doing some snap shooting/instintive shooting with a couple of pellet pistols and a gallon milk jug isn't too safe at 16 yards.
Mr B.
Shadow Express Dude
I understand the GSG 1911 should be showing up around the first of next year with a MSRP under $400.
Bub
BB,
No, it's posted on cyberguns website. I remember seeing it at PA.
It looked alot like this;
/images/CG120914AKM_noscope.jpg
Shadow Express Dude
Bub,
Yeah, I like the idea of a good trainer .22 1911, but did you see the casting lines on the prototype? I'm a little worried that it is an airsoft gun that shoots .22lr. I'm looking forward to a Ciener conversion. GSG looks like its becoming a major player, so maybe the production models will be better.
Shadow Express dude
Hi,
sorry to post this question here, but I did not find any contact mail adress for Tom.
I bought Daisy powerline 008 and I found out that it shoots much faster with BBs than with pellets. I think the reason is that when I load a pellet it is goes in hard. Actually loading it is somehow normal but when I try to push it out of the magazin it gets hard. BBs fit in just right and pushing it out is very easy cause only magnet holds it in so this does not take any speed out of the BB when you shoot it out. On the other side when you shoot with pellets, I think quite a big ammount of energy is taken just to push it out and into the barrel. I also found that plastic magazin has some strips in there so when I put the pellet in and take it out, the pellet is marked with some lines ingraved in it. Why is that so? Is there a way to make this hole bigger so it does not take so much energy out of the pellet. And why is it that this hole in the magazin has to be so tight?
thanks for help
Tomaz
Shadow Express Dude
I share the same concern about the GSG 1911.
Bub
I'm very interested to see how the velocity and accuracy of these S&W's stack up.
I'm wondering how they would compare to the Gamo Compact for target shooting. As I mentioned in the past, one of the reasons I purchased the Gamo was it had a bit of the feel of my fathers S&W41 that I shot many years ago.
If they were comparable I'd try and find a good condition 79G…but I gotta admit the Gamo is extremely accurate at 10m and I wouldn't want to give up accuracy for 'fond memories' (though nothing says I can't have both, I guess 🙂
CowBoyStar Dad
BB,
Those were definitely made in the past, as the detailing and construction look much more upscale than we often see these days.
Twotalon,
Thanks for sending the pictures to BB, so that we can look at it. I've been meaning to ask if you're getting along OK with treatment? I'm sure I'm not the only one hoping for you to do well and wondering.
BG Farmer.
I only sent BB a couple pics…he supplied the rest.
Still playing the waiting game with my biggest problem. Tests are done, one surgery done, everything going to the oncologist for a final readout and game plan next week.
Will not be shooting much for a while. Neck surgery messes up the muscles in the neck for a while. Attempting to use my right arm too much results in pain right now. You would not believe how much strain is put on neck muscles when lifting just a little weight.
twotalon
Should this worry anyone?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/581291/thread/1246550661/I+was+fixing+a+customer%27s+Discovery+and….
Off topic!
I bought the Gamo Metal Squirrel, but before I set it up, I need to make a backstop and base for it, and I was wondering if anyone knew a formula for calculating how far a .22 pellet that pancakes will bounce.
Jake
Anyone know what FPE one of the gamo tree rat field targets can handle? The pics look like it would not handle much.
Looks like my Talondor would waste it pretty fast.
twotalon
I've got it right here, and it seems pretty durable. The squirrel and target are made of 2mm steel, which is actually pretty thick.
Plus, you could always turn the Talondor down, couldn't you?
Always wear safety glasses. I'm sure 100% return would be best to expect, but probably not the fact.
Some targets and pellet traps have suggestions on the packaging etc…I would guess 12 ftlb would be best or maybe around 625 fps in .22 caliber air gun.
I would say take the muzzle velocity and divide by 50 which is what I feel is about minimum amount of yards to your target you may want to use.
300 fps = 6 yards
550 fps = 11 yards
800 fps = 16 yards
1000 fps = 20 yards
I'm no expert and there is no data to back up this formula. Shooting can always be risky, the less risky the better.
I try to make my backstops as soft and pellet absorbing as possible. Many like duct/seal/electrical/plumbers putty which can usually be found in most hardware stores. I've clipped durable bundled rags inside my bullet trap. If your using a hard material, try to put a softer material in front (sheet rock or foam in front of plywood etc..)
Good Luck!
AJ
Kiwi…
2mm won't cut it. I think I would want 5mm as a minimum. Possibly .25".
Turning down the power is not an option…AF guns don't work that way. Need to be shot the same way they are set up for hunting to get best performance. Shoot the same barrel, tank, tune, pellet , and zero that you would normally use . No fiddling around.
twotalon
AJ,
I would shoot a soft target, but I'm doing some plinking with a steel squirrel, so I'm just trying to figure out how far forward the base will need to extend to catch the bouncers.
kiwi,
1/8" 3mm to 3/16" 5mm for sure.
Tomaz ,
Those plastic ridges center BBs in the pellet chambers of the clip.
Leave that clip alone! It has been carefully engineered to work. It does not take energy away from the pellet because you engrave the pellet when you load it.
B.B.
Kiwi…
Perpendicular hits will not cause much bounce straight back. Fragments will fly out radially from the impact point in all directions.
twotalon
SED,
All AKs look alike. The BB-shooters are definitely against the law. If Cybergun actually has them, they are risking a visit from BATF.
Sometimes companies advertise things they don't actually have.
B.B.
Base length… I would experiment and see where the pellets land. Most of my pellets tend to land up to a yard infront of a hard target.
dolt….12 ftlbs or less on gamo targets would probably be best.
Wish we could edit…or at least for a short period of time. Spell checker would be cool too. I don't type so well on laptops, but they're so convenient.
Alright, thanks for your commcents. I'll take the gun out tomorrow (or today if it's dry enough, and just set the target at the back of a plywood board and measure the bounces.
Tomaz, another thing to keep in mind is that pellets are generally heavier than BB's (the exception being some of the super-light pot-metal pellets). The heavier projectile will be slower.
I have taught several people to shoot using my 78g, before moving them up to real firearms.
It is not accurate enough for "serious" 10m competition, but it can hold the black for sure….it is a good starter gun. When you can hold the black with it then think about a more expensive 10m pistol.
At 15 and 25 yards with heavier RWS pellets the 78G can hold a B-8 10-ring no problem…but won't make nice holes…
melchloboo,
Well said!
B.B.
B.B. Pelletier:
I know that this engraving does probably not take energy away but hard loading and unloading does. This clip really holds pellet hard so a lot of energy must be spent just to push it out of the clip.
Vince:
You are right, pellets are heavyer but because of that, they should penetrate better. I used Crosman Premier Ultra magnum(heavy 10.5g) pellet and it could not penetrate through the coke can both ways when BB could easily. I find it hard to believe that this gun shoots with 400 fps for pellets and the pellet stays in the can. That shows that the pellet goes out really slow and I think this could be also because of the clip which is so tight. When I tryed BBs they blasted through both walls of the can. Both shots were from 5m.
Ok I have a question about the trigger wars. I've always thought that the grt III was the legit trigger to get and that the gtx was the knock off. But after reading the yellow forum, I learned that the GRT III was of lesser quality then the GRT because the GRT had no real second stage as it was advertised to be. The GTX is also more easily adjustable and shoots smoothly while the GRT shoots like sandpaper.
I need help. Can someone clarify which is the better trigger? I thought I would come on here on a neutral forum, away from all the bashing.
Tomaz,
Once the pellets are engraved at loading, no additional energy is needed to push them forward. It's the same as if they were loaded in the breech of a rifled barrel.
B.B.
Who said that heavier = better penetration? Penetration is a combination of a lot of things that also includes projectile shape, weight, and hardness. But velocity is extremely important. I'm not surprised that BB's do a better job on soda cans. When the military seeks to improve the effectiveness of an armor-piercing round they pay a LOT of attention to feet-per-second.
I'd suggest that 10.5gr pellets are WAY to heavy for that gun in any event. I believe that those are really meant for the strongest rifles that would go supersonic with normal, mid-weight pellets. If the pistol produces the same energy in each projectile, the heavy pellet will be shooting about 30% slower than the BB.
If the gun advertises '400fps with pellets', that does not mean 'with any pellet'. That would be like saying that a certain engine can propel a vehicle from 0-60 in 8 seconds, and it doesn't matter if it's installed in a motorcycle or a bus.
Triggers – a little history is in order.
Way back when, Bob Werner and 'Steve in NC' were partners in developing and selling the GTX Gamo trigger. It underwent a revision or two before they had a falling out and went their separate ways. Predictably there are different versions of the trigger's 'history'.
The one thing everybody seems to agree on is that Steve developed originally developed it. At that point Bob maintains that the original design was significantly flawed and needed a fair bit of rework, something that Steve denies. After they parted company Bob came out with the most recent variants, claiming to have further refined the mechanism. Steve and his friends claim that Bob made it look a little fancier, but continues to make and sell an unessentially unchanged design that he stole from Steve.
Add to that the various trigger inserts made (including the ones from Rich in Mich) that are a lot cheaper and claim to do the same thing. And, incidentally, was one of the issues that caused a big to-do between Rich and Bob.
The funny part about all this is that the principle behind the trigger – and the inserts – well, there's not much to it.
Mechanically they do two things. First, they remove the Gamo trigger return spring. All the spring does is keep the trigger blade forward, it has nothing to do with engaging the sear or trip lever. If you remove this spring even on a stock trigger it lessens the effort and improves the feel.
The second thing it does is to lift the sear trip lever in two steps instead of one. If you look at the 1st blog on the Rekord trigger (/blog/2009/1/for-the-rekord-part-1/) you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about. Even though the Rekord is a vastly different mechanism, the mechanical interface between lever 3a and lever 4 (the trigger) is analogous to that on the Gamo.
As you can see in that diagram the trigger has two bumps on it that lift the lever – a 1st and a 2nd stage bump. The 1st stage lifts the lever slowly, the 2nd stage completes the lift at a faster rate. That's what gives it a 2-stage feel. You can also see that if the trigger only had ONE bump it would still work – but you would only have one stage and not two.
That's the difference. The Gamo trigger has essentially one bump, while the aftermarket mods have two.
Infinite fighting will probably continue over the design specifics – location of the bumps, the profile of the bumps, the adjustability of the bumps, the shape of the trigger blade, the texture of the trigger blade, and so on.
In any event I don't think you're gonna find much difference in the actual performance from one to the other. Likely some will vehemently disagree with me (possibly to the point of questioning my intelligence, sanity, spiritual condition or parentage) but I've not seen anything that would indicate otherwise.
I didn't see no response on the rust inside the Disco. Is it possible that it's just the micro filter needs to be replaced with a better one? Or is it coming in from the pump?
Vince,
Thank you for that mini-blog on the aftermarket triggers. That is the kind of information that makes this blog worthwhile.
B.B.
HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY TO ONE AND ALL
twotalon,
You've got more people out here than you know praying for you.
Vince,
Your engine analogy is beautiful.
Saw the gun that NASA uses to simulate high speed impacts on their in space "stuff" on the History Chanel. (Jane Hanson, please excuse the term "stuff".) How does 16,000 fps sound? Eat your hearts out all you springer people cause they're using a gas gun.
Mr B.
Vince,
Nice one! …great history on the aftermarket triggers.. I love getting that type info!
Wayne
Vince,
Great info. and practical information like that is why I feel comfortable taking your advice!
AJVenom,
I have no idea about the Discovery shown on the link of course, but it did bring to mind a story. It looks like the 'I was just riding along and then…' Where when people bring damaged bicycles back to the shop and claim that they were just cruising along the sidewalk enjoying the breeze and fresh air when all of a sudden, BAM! – total collapse of the frame. They of course have no idea what happened and there must be something drastically wrong with the bike company. Point is, we don't know what the owner did to that gun. That looks like a pretty serious rust problem. I'd hate to think it happened from regular use!
Twotalon,
Thanks for the report and hang in there. Mr. B is right — there's quite a few of us pulling for you.
Twotalon,
What's your name so that we're not praying for 'Twotalon'? God may heal a local sharp shinned hawk instead!
Vince,
Some academics might say you whitewashed or Bowdlerized the trigger story:), but I think you summarized the gist of it very well. I wondered into the YF archives of that battle one time and it would be an epic if the level of discourse and object of contention had been _significantly_ elevated.
Melchloboo has issued a challenge to me. I bet you didn't even know that :). I'm going to have my own contest to see if the Gamo Extreme will outshoot my 78G. I'll announce the results to the blog knowing that probably no one cares.
Happy 4th to all.
Oh, I still haven't forgotten our thread on American quality and it's downfall so here's a 3 minute video to watch. It has cars (a 1964 Mercury Comet Caliente), guns and "fast" women in it. Something for everyone.
http://growingbolder.com/media/technology/vehicles/romancing-the-road-259598.html
Fred
Happy 4th to all,
They just don't make em like the 78G anymore.
Shadow Express dude
Mr B., BG_F, Fused, others….
Thanks guys. twotalon will do.
I'm a guy with 2 AF Talons, and loves cats. That is enough.
When the Reaper gets cozy with you and wants to dance, you become very aware of your own mortality. Everyone gets their turn.
twotalon
twotalon,
Don't dance with the bastard! Spit in his eye and run like hell!
Fred,
An interesting link, thanks. We're waiting to hear about your shoot off. My money is on your 78G rather than the Gamo Extreme.
Mr B.
All…
Just ran 5 pellets from the 78G over the chrono.
Power set all the way up, Beeman FTS.
397
400
397
397
396
Not terribly fast, but look at the MV spread.
twotalon
Matt,
Interesting book I saw online version cited on a YF discussion. Right up your alley, if you haven't seen it:
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA11&id=MAoZAAAAYAAJ#PPA111,M1
Hello to All!!
I know that this is an airgun forum… but it has been a while since I started reading every blog and most of the comments posted… And I know that many of you possess vast knowledge also in firearms… I am currently working to obtain the legal license for possessing firearms… And I would like for someone to recommend the best rifles for long range shooting (sort of sniper rifles) since that is what I really enjoy… But I do not know were to start looking… Plus I prefer some sort of tactical looking rifle such as the Whisper VH or AirForce Condor… (if possible)… I have been shooting all my life with airrifles… but its time to make a transition… I appreciate any comment… THANKS…
Gustav
Thanks Vince,
Neat book Matt,
HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY ALL!!!!!!
Thanks for the response Vince.
So… I wonder, which one of the triggers do you own? =)
Hi, BB If the rule is keep a pump of air in every pneumatic rifle. Does that mean that a daisy 953 should be kept at full power as it only has one pump?
I would say no….
Here's a piece from BB:
/blog/2006/3/safe-storage-of-pneumatic-airguns/
Single-strokes are an exception to this rule.
B.B.
Gustav,
In affordable firearms, the Savage 110-series of guns is hard to beat for long-range accuracy. However, the real long-range guns are purpose-built and have extremely heavy (35 lbs.) barrels.
For a long-range air rifle I don't think you can beat a Condor in .22 caliber.
B.B.
Triggers, I had one of Bob's earlier GTX triggers (that I bought right when he split with Steve). But that went on a gun I sold. I've got a few Gamo's with the 'Rich in Mich' trigger insert only because they are cheaper. But Bob's is certainly easier to install. On my Crosman Sierra Pro I just yanked the trigger spring, and on my oldest Gamo (a Shadow) the trigger broke in rather nicely so I just left it alone.
But remember that I'm strictly a recreational shooter, a plinker. To me, hitting a soda can or a tennis ball at 60 yards is precision shooting – and I rarely use a scope. So I might be a little less fussy about my triggers than some others.
Here's an article about the newest trigger you might find useful:
http://www.uplandhunter.net/id32.html
This 'testimonial' is actually on Bob Werner's website:
https://charliedatuna.com/testimonials/Testimonials%20Other.htm
where the writer compares Bob's trigger to the insert.
Gustav,
I'm pretty new to firearms too.. The folks here helped me into it.. I like the Howa 1500 that comes with a nice Nikko 3-10×42 side wheel focus..
The trigger adjusts down real nice, (actually to low to carry around hunting!… but great for benchrest target practice)..
It has a "Hogue" stock that is real great to hold and somehow beds the action better.. I got one in 30-06 and .223 They retail for under $500 and I got mine on sale for under $400 each.
Just yesterday, I was trying out some .223 ammo I found for $9 per 20 (Federal XM 5.56mm M193 ball 55 gr.) in a plain brown box… anyway, I went back and bought 20 more boxes, because they (and the Howa 1500), gave me three different 5 shot groups of less than 2" at 200 yards!!!..
just another great rifle to consider..
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
"redbro" was the verification .. how cool
I need some scope help.
I mounted a Leapers 3-9x40AO on a 2260 w/ Steel Breech using medium rings, and I've been having some problems. I zeroed the scope at 9x, and have been shooting it at various magnification levels, checking it out. I've found that at 5x, the gun shoots to the right, between 1 and 3 inches, but this hasn't happened at any other magnification. I origininally figured this was a scope problem, but I realized it may be because it is impossible for me to firmly 'cheek' my narrow face on the low stock, and still use the scope. I don't know which problem I should troubleshoot first, or what I should do.
Jake
Side note: I whipped up a nice backstop for the Gamo Squirrel Field Target, and I'd be more than willing to share.
HI ALL
Hope everyone had a good independence
weekend.We had about 20 folks over and 5
AG shooters.My belief was reconfirmed
that accuracy is subjective.1 young shooter was content with the RedRyder
and pop cans,while two friends wanted
the open sighted guns for plastic golf
balls and bottle tops at 20-30yds.
Meanwhile my nephew and I were searching
for small live targets(ants and flys that were tryin to crash my cookout)with our scoped rifles.
I tried some bottle caps at 30 yds.
with the open sighted 490 from Vince.
While I had some small success,It started me thinking about:
The Quigley Style Shot again.
Today I read a good post over on the YF
and it seemed very relevant to the
discussions and ideas we've had here.
The calculations looked pretty close to
me and if Matt,Vince,Volvo and others can
confirm or add to them we may have a
good basis for the challenge:)
Wayne,Aaron,BG Are you listening?
Here's the link(I hope)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1246799613/Quigley-Bollinger+Bucket+Challenge
JTinAL
hi BB..
I wanted to know how quiet a Marauder is compared to a Sheridan Blue streak?
a marauder is as loud as a blue streak being fired with how many pumps?
thank you very much.
Kiwi90,
Short answer: don't use 5x:). Long answer — could be scope problem, but check parallax by moving your head around and seeing if the crosshairs move in relation to the target (crosshairs should "stick" in same place). If the crosshairs move, you need to change the objective focus (AO ring) until they stop, at which point you will probably have to refocus the ocular to get a sharp image. You may need to set the parallax adjustment at higher mag., then go back down to 5x.
JT,
I don't think the ratio of drop to range he suggests makes a lot of sense, except as a convenient justification for keeping the range reasonable. The final proposals, however, aren't that different from what we had agreed on last in an attempt to keep the ranges attainable, except we had an 80 yd. range for light springers, if I remember correctly. I still think the real shot and correctly scaled versions of it are out of reach of most of us for many reasons.
BG-Farmer,
Yes, with airguns we can't really do a comparison.. so why try.. let's do something similar and call it good.. it's just for fun anyway!
JTinAL,
Sounds like fun.. I don't care if it's a good comparison to the real Quigley shot..
As long as there are different classes (maybe 4 or 5) for different FPS and scoped and non scoped..
We can call it something different like "AirGiggley" contest instead 🙂
55 yards and a 2" for 400fps to 500fps
100 yards and 4" bucket for a 700fps springer with open sights… sounds about right.
And how about 200 yards and an 6" bucket for scoped guns up to 1,000fps? or something like that..
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Josh,
I don't have to test it.. (but I will to be sure), but my guess is that the Marauder is quieter than one pump on the Sheridan..
The Marauder is the most quiet airgun I have tried so far.. and that's quite a few!!
Noise could not be an issue to keep you from getting one..
actually I can't think of a reason not to buy one!! …other that more important places for the money 🙂
.. if you need or want a quiet, accurate and easy to shoot air gun.. this is it!
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
B.B.
I've been thinking some of our members would like using the Marauder for Field Target.. (didn't I hear Crosman techs did well with the proto-type at the FT contests)..
It would make a great entry level starter gun, if there will be a single shot tray for it..
I was overjoyed when I found one for the AAs410. It is a competitor for sure, and so would the Marauder be!!
So if you get a chance, please ask if they have a single shot tray now, or will have one soon…
The Marauder can be fed one pellet at a time.. but it ain't easy! .. It looks easy to make one for it..
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne,
As far as a fun challenge –something like one of the posters suggested, say, 3 consecutive hits on a pop or soup can at 100 yards, offhand and with open sights seems fun to me. Not quite Quigley, but fairly tough and fun. I don't think the scope is that big a help, incidentally, since where you hit the can doesn't matter. Lower powered guns will be more glorious to triumph with.
BG_Farmer
For sure, a pop can at 100 yards is a good class for under 550fps in .177 cal 10.5 CPH (but choose your own pellet)
And what about 700fps and 150 yards.. at a 3lb coffee can?
And what about 900fps and 200 yards.. at a 3 gal bucket?
All open sights.
Only springers?
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne,
Sounds like fun. With disclosure, I wouldn't object to people using scopes if necessary nor to PCP's at the 200 yard range and CO2 at 150. If it gets people shooting long range targets (or at least trying) offhand, it will be worthwhile.
O.K
now you guys got me wonderin where I can
shoot at longer ranges.The 2 closest
rifle ranges only offer 100 yds. so that
is a good start.I gotta learn more about
chairgun so I can get a good estimate of
FPS on the 953 and 1377,Vince already said
that the 490 is about 550 so that will
give me a good starting point on that gun.
I think I'll prefer the 490 for this shoot
because it has my favorite open sights
and the recoil will add an extra
dimension that will make a hit even better(if I get one):).Time for me to practice off hand some more.Any excuse to shoot more will do:)
JTinAL
Wayne,
The Marauder is just an entry-level field tyarget gun. I've seen it outshoot most FT rifles on the TV show.
But Crosman is bringing out a purpose-built FT rifle based on the Challenger, so I don't know if they will follow through on the single-shot loading idea.
I will ask.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks very much..
A better field target stock would be nice.. but I keep looking for the "one gun" that does it all… at least at the entry level…
ie.. indoor quiet plinking, outdoor field target, hunting squirrels, rabbits and starlings, and wash the car for me on Saturday 🙂 …well at least hold the hose for me!
My Air Arms S410 .177 does all that, but cost twice as much as the Marauder…
I don't know why I continue to look for the all purpose one gun… no one on the planet can "eat just one"… but we can pretend!!
Wacky Wayne
BB, I have read many of your reports on the various "compact Blow Back guns". Question, do you have a personnel favorite among the choices?
Thanks
Dave
Dave,
The Walther PPK/S.
B.B.
Hello everyone, I just picked up a S&W 79g at a flea market this morning for $1.00. That's right only a buck. I'm in need of a parts scamatic to see if i am missing an internal part for the spring tightening adjustment. It seems that the action is not enough to open the air inlet. Or maybee as stated in this forum just a little pellgunoil might loosen things up and also help seal a small leak of air at the punctuator. Thanks Mark
Anonymous,
You need to get a back issue of Airgun Hobby magazine. They had an article about rebuilding this pistol. Good stuff!
Edith
I just purchased a David Gunter Tuned 78G with some mods. It has a 12" Barrel. Using a standard 12-gram cartridge and shooting 15.1 grain pellets (I think these are FTS, not sure of the type as I have them in a different tin, but I am sure of the weight as I weighed them on an RCBS digital scale), I got the velocity/shot string below. Its an excellent gun, with great accuracy. What is interesting is the last shot completely used up ALL the remaining CO2 left … there is no hissing sound as is common when the CO2 is running low. I did this several times, and every time the same thing – last shot used up all the remaining CO2. Dave Gunter does great work on these guns. Now all I need is figure a way to scope this pistol …
Ambient Temperature: ~78F
FPS Shot#
504 1
502 2
502 3
527 4
521 5
524 6
523 7
532 8
531 9
524 10
528 11
529 12
533 13
520 14
524 15
527 16
529 17
530 18
526 19
525 20
524 21
511 22
525 23
528 24
518 25
525 26
522 27
519 28
522 29
518 30
511 31
504 32
498 33
499 34
492 35
481 36
472 37
467 38
459 39
451 40
439 41
428 42
411 43
405 44
389 45
374 46
352 47
337 48
301 49
285.5 50
255.4 51
I own a 79G that I bought new from a hardware store in Greensboro, NC in 1974. I love it and still shoot it regularly. Maybe one of these days I'll have it tuned up.
I have a 79G that I bought new back in the late 70's to practice shooting in the back yard. I was shooting big bore pistols alot but wanted to shoot more. I only shot it maybe 150 or so times and put it away. Looks like new still and have the box and manual. Needs a reseal now. If someone is interested, say so on this blog and we will figure out how to contact one another
This old posting is seldom read by anyone but me. Advertise your gun for free here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/
B.B.
Hello
I have a 79g and I am in san diego. who could i send my s&w 79g to for service>
thanks
pat carroll
user517812@aol.com
thanks
pat carroll,
Contact these people and tell explain what you want done to your 79g and see which one can perform the work you need:
George Pena in TX. George is at heligun1@msn.com or 512-863-2951.
Jim Coplen, PO Box 7297, Rochester, MN. 55903 (507)281-2314.
5522 Clearwater Rd. Rochester, MN 55901
Mac-1 http://www.mac1airgun.com/
310-327-3581
Jim Dry Claremore, Oklahoma (918)341-9104
kevin
I found my old 78G in a box. Must have been in there for over 30 years and through who knows how many moves. Looking for gaskets, springs and a copy of the original manual if any can help out that'd be great.
Thanks,
Paul
Paul,
Welcome to the blog! You have posted on a very old report. Our current daily blog is located here:
/blog//
Here is a place to get the parts and information you need:
Ron Sauls
http://www.bryanandac.com
B.B.
Regarding Smith & Wesson 79G valve repair. The valve seal used in S&W part number 11265 seems to be cast in place. The entire valve assembly or that brass and steel number 11265 component seems to be pure unobtanium. Have you or anyone of your readers tried cleaning out the old mushy seal and fabricating a new seal by pouring in a castable urethane like Devcon’s Flexane 94 that cures to a pretty hard and robust urethane?
It does look like a viable option but the seal is actually crimped in place, I’ve seen one that was cleaned out, decrimped, seal replaced and recrimped. It took the guy 2 tries to get it right so I would probably order the new stem exhaust valve assy for now and maybe tinker with the other later. Are you having trouble finding a replacement?
Reb
PS. Go to today’s blog for more timely responses./blog//
What is a 78g worth today? I have one in the box( a little rough) that was recently resealed.
Thinking about selling it. Maybe…..
Thanks in advance for any info.
Peter,
A nice one in the box will bring about $150 today. So a rough one is maybe $100?
B.B.
I meant the box was rough. The pistol is great. Can I post a picture here?
This one went for $226. early
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/9039231
Peter,
Okay. The gun is good. Airgunners will pay $150 or so for it. No telling what gun people will pay, because they don’t know the value of these guns. I see them going for this price all the time at airgun shows.
You can’t post pictures here. What people do is post them on a site that shares, like Photobucket.
B.B.