by B.B. Pelletier
I have a surprise for you today. A gun that EXCEEDS its specs by a healthy margin. You BB-gun lovers are going to enjoy this!
I’m testing the H&K USP pistol today for both velocity and accuracy. I’m doing two in one because with BBs checking different brands of BBs doesn’t make a big difference to either velocity or accuracy until you get to the Daisy 499. So, sit back and accept a twofer.
Magazine observations
The “drop free” magazine still doesn’t drop. Maybe it isn’t designed to. I have to pull on the floorplate of the mag to separate it from the gun, and there are thumb cutouts at that location on the frame. Just an observation. The second observation I’ll make is the easy-loader really is easy! I love it.
It’s pretty obvious that this pistol has an airsoft heritage from the way the gun is laid out to the way the BBs are packed in the box. Well, in the case of the speedloader, they made the world’s best and easiest way to load a BB gun. Imagine pouring BBs into a funnel until the mag is loaded and you’ll get the idea.
Velocity testing
But I know what you’re waiting for! You want to know how fast. Right? First, the test conditions. Room temperature was 80 degrees F. Shots fired no faster than one every 15 seconds. With faster shooting, the velocity will decline. With a warmer environment, the velocity will climb.
The specs say the gun is rated to 360 f.p.s. Well, my test gun averages 405 f.p.s. under these conditions! That’s quite a heathy increase! The spread went from 390 f.p.s. to 415 f.p.s., with the higher velocity coming near the end of the string. Three-quarters of the shots were in the 400s. This is a little screamer.
I could have shot other brands of BBs (I used Daisy brand), but why? The numbers would have been both different and the same, if you know what I mean. So I went straight to the target range. For BB pistols, the range is 15 feet for all except the 499 which goes 16.4 feet (five meters). That seems close, but I have tested at that range consistently, so you have other gun tests to compare to.
Well, did I learn a lesson on the target range! I wasn’t hitting from 15 feet so I moved up to 10, Wasn’t hitting from there, either, so I went to four feet. Still no hits.
Could it be that no BBs were coming out? Oh, yes! Let me show you why.
Problem solved
Now the gun was shooting BBs. I used a center hold with the front white dot, because it’s so bright it compelled me to do so. That resulted in a group above the bull at 15 feet. The group was just over three inches for 10 shots. Remember, this is a double-action-only gun, so no light, crisp trigger squeeze.
On the next target, I used a standard 6 o’clock hold that proved to be more what the pistol wanted.
The USP isn’t in the same league as the Makarov I tested, but for a DAO pistol it’s not too bad. I know I could bounce a tin can at 20 feet with little trouble.
What have we got? High power, large magazine capacity, DAO operation, good heft, fixed sights and a good price.
Good morning B.B.,
What's not to love about this pistol–looks good and shoots well! One little question please, how back yard frendly is this little beast? How does it compair to a Crosman 1077 noise wise? Thank you.
Mr B.
Mr. B.,
I would say that it compares well. I'm away from my guns and can't run a test, but I think they sound about the same.
B.B.
BB
Once again I want to thank you for recommending the Makarov. I have shot a heck of a lot of ammo out of the gun in the past week and have to say that this is one nice gun. I am looking to buy the real thing, but Man have prices gone up.
Question, you turned me on the the Baikal 60/61 and really fell in love with those guns.What ever happened to the Baikal 651k? I have see the pics with the stock attachments and appears to be a really nice gun. I also found a website that sells a silencer for the Baikal Mak. It is in GB however.
Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Dave Sawyer
B.B.
How ya doing? Hope you got some R&R over the weekend.
Dave Sawyer,
Try to find a Makarov made in Germany. B.B. says they're the best.. Gunbroker has them now and then. Mine is Russian, and it great… but the next one I buy will be made in Germany, so I can see the difference.
Wayne
Ashland Air Rifle Range
I'm not sure if this should be posted here of if I should have posted it in Fridays blog. But today is Monday and here I am.
Mr. B
I do not know who answered you but it was not me, the orig Tiru. I have no clue why they would use my name to answer you. How ever, his/her answer was correct though.
So, just in case there is another Tiru out there, hence forth I will use "USS-Tiru".
I prefer more of a 75% mixture of Dextron. This flows a little easier if you use STP or motor honey. If you use a good 20wt ND oil I believe a 50/50 mixture would be just fine.
Here is where I found the Info:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/message/1210797189/Pellgun+Oil+Substitute
The New and Improved USS-Tiru
If someone has stolen your screen name for blog comments, I suggest you register your I.D. with Blogger (basically, get a Google account). It's free & just might make it harder for someone to do it again. You don't have to complete your profile when you get a Google account, so no information is divulged if you don't want it to be.
Edith
Thanks Edith
I'll have to do that.
USS Tiru
Hey all…..
I'm back. Time to catch up.
twotalon
OT…Saturday…it just doesn't get any better!!
Early in the morning (8:30AM) we (we being myself and my 5 and 8 year olds) were on the road to our favorite shooting spot, about a 30 minute drive into the country.
Had the Red Ryders (and my Slavia) with me for an hours shooting. Our little spot is a small, totally unknown public park surrounded by farmland. It is completely ringed by trees and is invisible from the road.
And it has a great little firepit.
So shooting for a bit, then got a fire going to do cheese-smokies and eggs.
Yummm!!
Now the reason we had to go early was because of 'the event'.
About 10 minutes from where we live is a small commercial airport with the local aviation museum.
Due in at 1PM was one of only two flyable Lancaster bombers (WWII heavy bomber, 4 12 cylinder Rolls Royce engines at 1300HP ea, a little bigger than a B-17).
Bloody amazing.
It came in low over the city from the east did one flyover than landed. An hour later you could go on a quick tour (up a ladder into the belly of the plane), and at 5PM it took off for a large airshow at a military base north of Edmonton.
I've seen a lot of planes take-off and land and flown on quite a few…from Twin Otters to 747's.
None has been as awe-inspiring as this old war horse. When it powered up it was deafing, and the thought of a couple of hundred of them leaving on a 1000 plane raid is amazing.
And the boys loved it.
CowBoyStar Dad
Oh, and one quick question to B.B. or anyone.
My oldest has been watching to many of the 'Behind Enemy Lines' movies and wants something more 'modern' than his Red Ryder (though he still loves it).
I've been looking at the Crosman Nightstalker. But on Review Centre.com it really takes a beating on reliability.
Does anyone here have any experiences…or should we just save up for the Beretta CX-4?
CowBoyStar Dad
USS-Tiru, that blog on a pellgun oil doesn't sound right. The poster makes the statement that "Both products you are mixing are Non Detergent and seal friendly".
First, ATF has an extremely high level of detergent, it has to in order to keep the orifices and hydraulic actuators clean. Auto trannies are extremely sensitive to the kind of buildup that could easily be tolerated in an engine.
Second, according to the STP web site: "STP® oil additives contain detergents, which can help suspend sludge in the motor oil, preventing it from accumulating inside your engine."
Lastly, the seals in an engine are designed to work with automotive oils and additives found in those oils. There's no guarantee that the seal material in an airgun is going to be formulated to be compatible with the same sort of additive package.
With all due respect to that poster, I don't know if his 'recipe' is really credible. If he really thinks that these two products are non-detergent, he really doesn't know much about lubricants.
Oops – previous post shoulda been signed 'Vinceb'.
Has anyone noticed how, all of a sudden, there seems to be a slew of new 'same-name' posters within the past day or two? Me, Mr B, Tiru. Were there any others I missed? Is someone messin' with us?
Edith's suggestion is sounding real good…
Testing Google account – if it works, THAT was easy…
OK – vfblovesnancy = Vinceb = 'old' Vince. Sorry for dragging this out…
Old Vince or Vinceb,
that new handle is a handful. I know I won't want to "take over" your new name so me thinks you got a winner.
Cowboystardad – take the little fella to a store or let him peruse PA and see what he wants. Then do the research and I would kind of wait for a special occasion to present it. Just my humble opinion.
Fred
word verification – this is great: bulshish
Hey, Vince, VinceB, vfblovesnancy — that was easy.
Dave,
I don't know about the IZH 651K and I'm not in a place to find out. I'm in New York filming American Airgunner.
As for the silencer fro GB, be aware that Customs and the Post Office both alert BATF&E when a silencer comes into the country. BATF&E then tracks it and they can sieze it suddenly.
B.B.
CSD,
I have heard of some NightStalker problems, but Crosman stands behind the gun. Even in Canada, Crosman will make it good if the dealer can't or wont.
B.B.
Bg _farmer – the .22-250 is only proper varmint medicine in the 'burbs when the most frangible of ammo is used, otherwise the humble .223 can be adequately stretched to the far corners of my quarter acre. ; )
Now on to a more vital subject. In order to prove our shared theory on the soon to be released compressor, you will need a PCP. Yes, I know, you said no. Watch the movie Tommy Boy, and realize like the star I don’t take no for an answer.
Let me share reason number #14 with you:
Often you see speculation as to what an airgunner would keep if he were to only have one rifle. Well, I took that a step farther and carried out the actually scenario. Not including the kid’s rifles, I now have a single air rifle – whittled down from about 30. Just as important as what it is, is what it is not. The 3 PW tuned HW rifles – gone, the Patriot .25cal lead beast – see ya, the FWB and BSA Rich tuned – out of here, the two CO2 rifles – history, and on and on.
My two standing wooden racks are empty, as is the hanging rack. That was space for 14 plus 4 leaners on the ends. The gun safe now echoes when I open the door. Now if you’re thinking old Volvo just grew tired of break barrels – ponder this. In addition to all those airguns I also chopped numerous firearms. My .22 Hornet – a favorite of poachers everywhere, it was the first centerfire cartridge I ever shot. My LNIB Winchester 9410 that allowed me to play Cowboy and never miss, among others have all gone to new homes.
Yet a PCP remains.
I have to admit I do plan to add a single Springer that I have my heart set on but cannot divulge at this time. (While Wayne is as good hearted a person as any, he tends to have a competitive streak and out bidding him is no undertaking for a mere mortal. [Wayne – spend a little more time shooting this week then on Gunbroker : )]
Wayne, also if you read this thanks for the warm thoughts the other day. I appreciate it.
Sounds like you’re still adding arms at a madding pace. If I read correctly you were getting a Judge. Let me know what you think. I have thought about trading a .357 for one.
Bg farmer I will be watching to read your glowing report of that first PCP – certainly guest blog material my friend…..
Volvo
BB, Vinceb
You guys defiantly know more about this than I do. It was an article found on the Crosman Air gun forum and passed it on thinking it would be helpful. I was hoping that being on the Crosman forum that if it was bad information someone would have rebutted it as you guys have. Or pulled it off all together.
I will say I have used it for quite a while on a Crosman 2100B, Daisy 22SG, and a Benjamin 392 without any issues. However, if you guys think its a bad idea then we should not use it.
Thanks for settin me straight, what was I thinking.
Thanks again, USS Tiru
Vinceb and USS Tiru,
Thanks for setting the record straight vis-a-vis STP/ATF.
Yes old Vince, et al,
Me thinks that our names were being used by another for a minute over the weekend.
What would keep me from signing this post with vfblovenancy? Just tried to use your new handle, old Vinceb, the SOB who hangs out inside my computer stopped me.
Mr B.
Volvo,
Assuming a square lot, 104 feet on a side, a .223 (aka "poodle shooter") may not be enough for the common corner to corner shot, which is 147 feet, if I didn't abuse Pythagoras:).
I'm thinking you might want me to consider a PCP:), and I probably will some day, but there's a part of me that hates the necessity of all the accessories and another part that knows I would waste far too much time trying to learn and improve every little thing about them:). My big clunk springer is working well right now, too. Your argument is compelling, though.
I'm always interested in your choices, so I'm doubly eager to see which springer is the one to have if you're only having one! What is the lucky PCP, so I'll know which one to buy?
That judge is interesting — I'm thinking that with my skill with handguns, a shotshell option is hard to beat:).
All,
Lest my valuable online I.D. be heisted, all posts after 3 August 2009, 6:40PM EST will be via a google account, unless I forget:).
The STP/ATF combo sounds more like a pellet lube than a seal lube.
I have a .177 cal Marauder that I've shot mainly at my garage 5-yard range. I've put several tins of pellets thru it using CO2. Here are some of my perceptions, in no particular order.
1-I got a "Single Shot Tray" from the guy in New Zealand. It fits and works well, but using it for one pellet is more than one-tenth the aggravation of the magazine.
2-I am getting about 70 shots from a fill from a new CO2 bottle. As the bottle goes down, so does the number of shots. I don't have a Chrony – I counted shots till the POI dropped. I'm getting five or six fills from a 20 oz CO2 bottle, but that varies based on how far down it gets before re-filling.
3-Even for CO2, get the fill adapter with the vent. It allows you to release the pressure from the hose before disconnecting. The vent is required for HPA.
4-Heavy pellets definitely work the best. Good groups from CP Ultra Mags, Crow Mags, Eun Jins, and the like. CPHPs, Polymags and JSB Exact Lights were good also. The only pellets that did not group well were light wad-cutters (H&N Club 10 and Daisy Prec. Max) and the Gamo pointed pellets (Master Point, Hunter, Magnum). Round balls were obviously the worst. I've still got a bunch more to try.
5-It's still configured just as it came from PA. I have not found a definitive set-up for CO2, so I'm waiting before I start tweaking it.
6-I tried an 88-gr cartridge. I only got one good fill from it. Good for an emergency, but more expensive than a 24 oz CO2 refill. I have an adapter that would let me use 12-gr cartridges, but I'm guessing that they would only fill up the hose on the fill adapter.
I use 30w nd engine oil in my air compressor and equipment. A bottle of the oil came with the compressor when I bought it. I've had it 15 years or so and no problems.
Seal conditoner seems to just soften up the seals so they work better. I would only use that if I had a leak and as a last resort cure. The only product I've use that worked with seal conditioner is power steering fluid with stop leak in a car.
so in a non pcp or springer try crosman pellgun oil or 30 w nd engine oil.
springer silicone chamber oil
pcp 100 percent silicone divers grease and lubes.
Cowboy*,
I have a Nightstalker, and I love it. While it's not the most accurate gun, it plinks great. I'm shooting Crosman 7.9 Super Points, and I haven't had a single misfire or jam. If you get it for your son, I have two recommendations.
1) Get a Red Dot sight. The irons are decent, but I've been having trouble seeing through the rear peep.
2) Get extra clips. Unless your son has serious trigger discipline, he's going to want to do some spraying.
It seems to me like most of the Beretta's $140 extra are for licensing.
WV: gymbol
Disregard point 2. I see it now comes with 4 clips.
When I bought mine, it only came with 1 or 2.
Dave,
Pyramyd AIR sold the 651K for a while, but sales weren't brisk and the gun didn't appear to be all it was cracked up to be.
Edith
what do u recomend the walther cp99 compact or the PPK/S ?? thanks kevin!
Anonymous asking about the cp99 or the PPK/S,
I'm sorry but I don't have any first hand experience with these pistols. The only air pistol I own is a crosman mark II (CO2).
Thanks for trying to post your questions in the comments under B.B.'s newest article. You came very close. This was his article written on Monday, August 3rd.
I'm going to post your question under today's article and see if you can get some input from other airgunners that have had some experience with these pistols. Please check back for their answers throughout the day. Here's the link, just don't scroll beyond the bottom of todays article before clicking on "comments":
/blog//
kevin
Kevin,
Walther CP99 Compact.
B.B.
I do realize how late this is but the drop-free on your USP may just be acting silly. My drop free comes out nice and easy and has nicely attacked my foot on a few occasions.
Other than that. Great read. : )