by B.B. Pelletier
In Part 1, we looked at the features of the new Colt Defender BB pistol. Today, we’re going to look at both the velocity and the accuracy, as promised.
Velocity
After my recent education by blog reader BG_Farmer about the difference in performance between standard Daisy BBs and the Daisy Avanti Precision Ground Shot, you can bet that I tried them both in this pistol. And I’m glad I did, because there was a difference.
Daisy Standard BBs
The first to be tried were the Daisy standard BBs. Thanks to a wonderful early Christmas gift of a Shooting Chrony Ballistic Printer, I didn’t have to record the velocities manually. The average velocity in a 74-deg. room was 442 f.p.s., which is 2 f.p.s. better than the stated velocity. The range went from a low of 436 f.p.s. to a high of 448. If I waited more than a minute between shots, the velocity was always above the mean. But shooting every 10 seconds dropped it below very quickly. CO2 cools the gun and drops velocity–something we all knew, and I demonstrated once more.
The gun seems to deliver between 60 and 75 shots per CO2 cartridge. The number depends on how rapidly you fire, as a cooler gun exhausts more gas, and also how slow you are willing to go before changing cartridges. That’s something each shooter has to select for himself.
Daisy Avanti Precision Ground Shot
As it did for the Red Ryder, the Precision Ground Shot raised the velocity noticeably. The average was 458 f.p.s. with a low of 449 and a high of 463. So call it a 16 f.p.s. increase. Pretty significant for this level of power, don’t you think? Don’t read anything into the total spread being larger, because I waited longer on every shot this time. So, the tests were not the same.
After these tests, I went to my 5-yard indoor range to see what impact the gun would have on paper. I must remind you that this is a double-action only gun, so the extra precision of manually cocking the hammer is not available. You have to aim during a heavy trigger-pull that I would estimate at 10-12 lbs.
I have to comment on the safety. It’s on the right side of the pistol and I found it fully accessible to my trigger finger. It must be pushed in before sliding back and forth, but it’s easy to do. A nice touch!
The first target was unimpressive, but I have to admit that I wasn’t really trying. So for the next target, I did try to squeeze off every shot with as much precision as that heavy trigger allows.
I’m impressed with the accuracy seen on the 10-shot target. For a double-action-only trigger, that’s pretty good for me. It will certainly be on a pop can at the same range.
I also tried the standard Daisy BBs, but the group was the size of the one with Precision Ground Shot when I didn’t concentrate. Clearly, this pistol likes Precision Ground Shot.
I must admit the pistol is more accurate than I was prepared to believe. The moving barrel that serves as a hammer apparently has little or no affect on accuracy.
The bottom line is that the Colt Defender is a very good action BB pistol. Remember that its DAO and that the sights do not adjust. If you like 1911 styling and feel, this is a good one.
Still no A.F. Edge.
AF Edge – Did you see yesterday's blog?
What does that mean?
B.B.
Edge,
The Edge rifles are enroute to Pyramyd AIR, which is why Pyramyd AIR has reactivated the BUY button for all Edges and has removed a statement that said delivery dates are unpredictable. The guns are on the truck heading from Texas to Ohio.
Edith
BB,
I know what you mean when you can't believe that the barrel can spring backwards and function as a hammer to open the valve. How COULDN'T a moving barrel effect accuracy? But it really seems to work. It's an ingenious mechanical design.
Daisy repair update:
The Daisy 717/747 repair thus far has not gone well. So, it's not all airgun joy and unicorns here today. I think it's safe to say I found a problem that a previous owner created by over adjusting the piston stroke. If nothing else, it's a good reminder that you can't get 600 from a 350 fps design. It's also a reminder that I spend too much time going down the wrong avenue sometimes.
http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2009_12_20_archive.html
Scott with "Squeaky the TX200",
Hang in there. You're not the only guy who gets problem guns sometimes.
Derrick,
Glad to see someone besides me admitting mistakes on this blog. Sorry for your trouble, though.
B.B.
BB,
All the 717 frustration is largely due to my naive assumption that it would be a quick fix. I wasn't expecting problems in any of the components save the valve. Anyway, it's disingenuous to only write about repair success when there's often so much frustration along the way. Lots to learn.
Thing must be cursed if its giving Derrick problems. Try Holy Water.
CSD,
Very interesting points that you and several others make about Sporter-class equipment. As an outsider to competitive shooting, it sounds like a very complex issue, and the points on both "sides" of it all seem to make sense to me. Tough one.
PS, glad you survived 1970's motor racing; not an easy feat! So your a racer from Edmonton, eh? Did you make it to any of the Champ Car races there? Nice course; even the crapwagons were fun to watch there.
Aw, man. CSD makes a learned racing/airgunning analogy, and I manage to take it completely OT. Sigh.
-Jan
There's a mathematical formula that applies to racing – the speed of your vehicle is directly proportional to the thickness of your wallet. Unless the powers that be in airgun competition are careful and put some rules together and perhaps additional classes, this can start happening in the entry level competitive shooting classes all the way through the serious youth classes. Perhaps equipment level competition classes will need to be instituted to keep equipment costs on a more level playing field, if that's possible.
Fred
This question was emailed to me directly and I prefer to answer it here, so others can chip in and help.
Morning B.B.–and happy Holidays to yo and your wife-tell "mom" I said high. Question-when ever I shoot my rws 350 at my indoor range I am constantly adjusting for elevation and pellett movement from left to right> I did the crank the windage/elevation knobs all the way-counted the clicks and started in the center of the knobs afjustment. I have plenty of adjustment so I do not believe the is too much pressure on either knob. I use the same pelletts and my targets-gamo paper with shoot n c stickers on them and they are butted together-but when I move from target to target I always have to adjust the elevation or windage knobs to get dead center again. I have cleaned the barrell-checked all screws but the next time I go to shoot I always have to make adjustment's again. I have a leapers 3×12 with paralex adjustment-the only thing I have not done is center the scope. Will this help or is this more of an inherant problem with the 350 in .177. I always use cph or H&H Batacuda's heavy -I get into the bulls eye but the misses are too frequent to be flyers and I have shot enough to have the artillary hold down pat-any suggestions? thanks , Scott
Scott,
This is not a 350 problem. It is not due to the scope.
It's due to the extremely short range you shoot at. Parallax errors increase greatly the closer you get to the muzzle.
The only solution is to go to open sights, or to learn to position your face in the same place every time. That is called a spotweld, and it is a fundamental part of rifle marksmanship.
B.B.
Cowboystardad,
How interesting was your analogy to auto racing. That was exactly the activity I had in mind in my previous post about equipment races.
I too have been through this with auto racing. For those of us old enough to remember, back in the 1960's there was a big craze in electric slotcars as a kids' sport.
This was aimed at the same age groups as the youth shooting programs. What started out as a cheap, fun activity soon resulted in an equipment race in which cars became obsolete in two or three months. Only the most hardcore types like myself were able to remain.
I then moved on to actual stockcars. Again, rules designed at keeping the cost down were circumvented all around in the natural quest for an advantage. I figured I did about as good as anyone else in relation to the quality of equipment I was able to afford. I can relate to the "learning curve" statements. At first, the car is capable of going faster than the driver is capable of driving it. Later (hopefully) the driver is trying to push the car to and sometimes past its mechanical limits.
Much later, I became involved with the SCCA Autocross sport. This is probably the most cost-controlled sport, for the reason that there is so many classes to compete in. The upper level stock classes proved more costly than the modified classes: rules limit one to stock equipment, but that translates into very special limited production competition cars from the factories. I was able to compete successfully for several years by purchasing a state-of-the-art new car designed specifically for this sport and using the skills I had developed over the years. In this sport, there is the "car du jour". One company's hot car will dominate for a year or two until the "next big thing" comes along. Want to stay competitive? Figure on replacing everything with the new hot item.
I am not criticizing this sport, because I feel it is very worthwhile and allows for people to work their way up. But to apply this equipment race to youngsters who can hardly afford this equipment is, I think, a mistake. Maybe someone ought to start a Red Ryder class? Then the ones with real talent can move up to the classes that involve the high-dollar guns.
Les
Fred, Jan & CSD,
You've dredged up some old memories. I never raced professionally. Went around a track for fun quite a bit.
I did have a 1972 pantera that was rebuilt with my money back in the early 1980's. Put in a 351 cleveland with 4 bolt main, took off the holly 4 barrel and installed webers, redid the entire cooling system (weakness in this mid engine design), put 16" tires on the rear and 14" on front (pirelli p7's), stiffened the suspension, etc. etc.
Our pantera club would travel annually to the pantera convention in Las Vegas. We had cb's, fuzz busters and police scanners. Nothing like monitoring the chatter between the highway patrolmen when they learn that 8-10 panteras are crossing the desert doing around 200 mph and heading their way.
We'd all take regular trips to a track about 30 minutes north of me near a town called Mead and run with the can am cars. Great fun. Remember going into turn 2 and my brake booster was fried. I'll never forget my excitement when the brake pedal went all the way to the floor. Went from 5th to second faster than I ever want to again. Surprised the transaxle stayed together.
I remember a cliche from those days…"Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"
kevin
Scott,
I put a Bug Buster on my TX200 so I could shoot in my indoor range (garage)and was very frustrated at the results – I got smaller groups at 30 yards than at 16 ft. After reading this blog for a while I came to the same conclusion that BB has already pointed out. Even though you can focus the Bug Buster that close, the parallex error is still there. Unfortunately the TX is not designed for open sights, so… just the excuse I need to get that HW 50 with the Avanti peep sight. No more frustration.
MCA
B.B.–Scott298-I was under the impression that shooting at 25yards indoors or out is where I should zero the gun in. I have 25 yards indoors and at that range I cannot make out the center of the target. So are you telling me 25 yards with a scope is not enough distance to remove parallex error even when adjusted for?
Scott,
You have company with this problem. I shoot 10m exclusively and noticed when I changed targets so did my POI. When I was just shooting for groups the problem never showed up because it was always the same target. It didn't matter where the pellets hit in respect to the bull as long as they all grouped in the same hole.
Now, I am trying to shoot in the Airarena bench rifle eMatch and there you take 30 shots but put one pellet in each target five across and six down. The parallax problem really shows up doing this. At least that's what I'm blaming it on 😉 I can shoot the numbers out of a 1/4" clock face but can't seem to hit the center.
-Chuck
Les,
There IS a Red Ryder class of international competition. It's the International BB gun Championship, run by Daisy and the JayCees, and they use the Daisy 499 Avanti Champion BB gun that is the world's most accurate.
B.B.
Scott,
It is impossible to remove all the parallax from a scope at any distance. When the parallax ring or dial does is remove all that is possible to be removed.
At close ranges, this really shows up, because the parallax error is so large.
B.B.
It's great that a few seem to have been through the same 'past' as I have. It does seem that my 'passions'…shooting (gun), shooting (camera) and auto racing all seem to attract a like-minded kind of person.
Anyways…back to the 'Edge' and competitive shooting.
I guess I feel that sporter class should remain what it is…a lo-cost way to get into shooting. At some point, obviously pre-ISSF class there should be a class for a gun such as the Edge.
But what I've found (in auto racing and other sports) that as soon as you start letting the higher end classes compete in the grass-roots ('race what you brung' to coin a car race term), that class soon disappears.
The Edge is a better gun than the Avanti. And even an 8 year old is going to tire of competing if he is constantly outshot based soley on the amount of money his parents can spend (if you have two shooters of the same skill, the one with the Edge is likely going to win most of the time).
Going back to motorsport. I remember a day when you got into your MG, drove to the track, taped on the numbers and had a great day of car racing…competitive racing because that was what everyone else was doing…in that class. At the end of the day, barring a blown engine, you ripped off the numbers, hopefully threw your trophy in the trunk and happily drove home.
Those days are gone for good.
I feel that a certain level of grass-roots shooting instruction/competition will be lost (meaning a future generation of shooters) if there is not some provision in the sporter class to ensure that the kids are all on a level, and inexpensive playing field.
CowBoyStar Dad
Playing catch-up again.
Got my first Shotgun News mag today and saw PyramydAir has a front page ad right at the top. I couldn't help but swell with pride – Hey, I know these people!
BB,
Excellent Edge report!!! I'm beginning to itch again. I wonder if Walgreens carries airgun balm?
And thanks for including the 10th anniversary and open house articles. You are a master writer. Edith's editing is teaching you well.
In your open house article you said, "…thousands of boxes go out…to hundreds of Pyramyd AIR dealers…". Who are these PyramydAir dealers? Do we have access to them? Do they provide over-the-counter sales? I noticed the web site has a place to sign up as a dealer but no place to list existing dealers.
Very amazing new warehouse. PA doing their own manufacturing is amazing, also. Nice segment on Boris making the Talon thumb hole attachment. Do you think he could make a stock for the CO2 tanks as well?
I got, and used, my $10 PA gift card for competing in the AirgunArena eMatch last month. I thought I had won it for second place but actually I was a lucky winner of a random drawing they do for all contestants who entered the match. An award goes only to the first place winner and it is a $15 gift cert.
Man, there is a $100,000 worth of stock refinishing info here the past few days!!!!
-Chuck
BB and Scott,
I too am struggling with similar issues to Scott, but I don't think it is parallax in my case. I think Scott and I have the same scope too. While parallax is critical at shorter distances, as long as the distance is within the true focal range of the scope, it is easier to adjust out at the shorter distances too because the optical systems have more adjustment in that range – and that sensitivity is enhanced at the higher power. Despite desperately trying to find something to blame it on, I am left to admit I've narrowed it down pretty much to just me and the gun – and the split is probably in the range of 25% gun variability and 75% my (poor) skills.
Scott – Here is how you can check the parallax: set up the gun at the distance you will shoot to the target on a rest, focus at max power, and then without touching the gun move your head around to see if there is any shift. If not, you are basically good – if so, tweak the focus until there is virtually no movement of the crosshairs to the target. Then pick another target on the paper and check it again. I have got mine to where the movement was a millimeter or two, but still had the same problem you are having. Try it and see what happens for you.
My indoor basement range is 20 yards to the target, and I use my Gene tuned Quest 800 with a GRT-III trigger and a Leapers 3-12X44 SWAT scope. I find Beeman FTS to be the best pellet in this gun. With this set up my best 5 shot group was just over 0.4" CTC, and I have had several around 0.5", but most are around 0.8", and I still get some bad ones from uncalled flyers (sometimes as big as 1.25"). Interestingly, the good groups sometimes are in different locations with respect to the bull just as Scott describes. While it does happen at different bulls, this "shift" seems to occur most often when I take a break in my shooting for while and come back to it later.
The "truth" in my shooting comes from looking at all the groups collectively on a nice big 10 bull paper. That is 50 shots total, and if I superimpose all the shots as though they were on one bull, the extreme spread is often 1.75 – 2.0" total, including all the bad "uncalled" flyers. I don't know how much is the gun and how much is me, but I'm confident that it is not parallax in my case. The scope is not centered (it is on a fixed one piece mount so it can't be), but I too have plenty of adjustment range left. When I shoot from the bench I use max scope power, as this pretty much forces a consistent checkweld within 10 mm to get the correct target picture.
If anyone has any ideas, I too would be happy to hear them. Maybe they apply to both of us.
Alan
Chuck,
Most of the dealers Pyramyd AIR sells to are brick-and-mortar gun stores that want to carry airguns. Then there are internet-only businesses that come and go all the time. Then there are gun show dealers who want to have airguns on their tables. Finally, there are some airgun dealers whose names you know.
And remember, Pyramyd AIR is also a huge airsoft dealer, so probably half these dealers will be places you never heard of.
B.B.
Alan,
If I may – could you email me at cjrley@gmail.com ? I have a scope ring answer for you.
-Chuck
CJr,
Can you please CC me the scope ring answer also? Thanks
Mr B.
is there a good site where I can find when and where there is a air gun show, I am in Dallas TX.
Thank you
Dallas,
I live near Ft. Worth.
You just missed the LASSO big bore shoot in Dallas. The next airgun show is in Little Rock in Late April 2010.
Here is where all the contact info is:
http://www.bryanandac.com/new_page_8.htm
B.B.
Alan (& maybe Scott & Chuck?),
You have the right approach, but a "millimeter or two" is too much movement. At that range with a short f/l scope, the range of critical focus is miniscule. Not trying to be critical, just trying to help. I would suggest trying to get the focus/parallax as precise as possible and then also keep your eye position constant (since you know how hard it will be to get parallax perfect). I usally try to place my eye so that I can see the "field stop" (black circle around image), which usually means you you can see that you are looking through a tube:). That is a pretty reliable way for me at least to keep my eye in the same place from shot to shot.
One complication that I've come across with parallax adjustment is that you have to also adjust the reticle focus. I.e., I have seen cases where the image was in perfect focus but parallax was incorrect, which required tweaking the "eyepiece" focus as well as the AO bell focus. Aim for no movement on the target.
A useful article on this is:
http://ateam.100free.com/ateamh/A_Team_Parallax_adj.htm. It is overkill for most of us, but the principle is the same.
BG_Farmer,
Thanks for that info. It's right on! Another thing I've noticed is how sensitive canting is. It takes very, very, very little canting to throw off the POI. If there is even a micro twist when you pull the trigger the cant will throw the shot off the bull. The bull is just barely big enough to fit a .177 pellet and for scoring the pellet cannot even touch the 9 ring.
I'm beginning to think I'm too old for the level of rock solid nerves required for this sport. But I ain't giving up!!
-Chuck
BG_Farmer,
I meant to comment on your "field stop" technique. GOOD IDEA! This has potential.
-Chuck
Chuck,
Those are some strange scoring rules! They're backwards of the world, national and Olympic rules. In national scoring, if you touch a line you get the highest score. At the world and Olympic level you have to break the line, but the same applies.
B.B.
CJr,
I've notice alot more than once or twice that I'll be looking throught "that scope" thinking that I'm holding the gun level until I glance down looking for the verticle cross hair to be bisecting the bubble and don't see it.
The good news is that I'm not canting the gun near as much as I used to.
I've got one of PA's levels on the way to try on my Talon SS. Cause the scope is on my Discovery. I'll let you know how it's working out for me.
Mr B.
Chuck,
I'm happy to try to help. I have been focusing my last few weekly .22 bench sessions at 50 and 100 yards on trigger technique. Putting your thumb over the wrist can often lead to twisting. Some people put their thumb alongside the wrist, but that is hard to get used to. I do things the wrong way (thumb over wrist), but work extremely hard to make sure the pull is straight back. It makes a big difference. My granddaddy could out shoot almost anybody well into his seventies, so don't give up prematurely.
BB,
I agree with you about the rules — broken line almost always counts higher.
Took my wife and son out for some BP shooting today before I tear it all apart — priceless redneck holiday activity, and they were both pretty excited about it, although my son wanted me to try a "100 gram" load:)!
BB,
We are using a target designed for the class I'm shooting in. It's not a "sanctioned" target.
I don't want to profess to know the logic behind the rules except that the class I'm shooting in is bench rest, any gun, any sight option. Pretty much wide open. There used to be a rule that on bench you couldn't lock down the rifle but I don't see that on the site now. Maybe that was covered in an official rule elsewhere.
Here's the scoring as posted and I think it's fair considering the openness of the class.
Benchrest targets are scored as follows: a 10 (ten) is fully within the black center and NOT touching the white ring – a 9 (nine) is fully or partially within the white and NOT touching the orange ring – an 8 (eight) is fully or partially within the orange ring and NOT breaking the outer edge of that ring. ALL other hits count as 0 (zero)
Nevertheless It's fun, challenging, eye opening, and danged frustrating – everything you want in a match.
-Chuck
Except maybe to win!
-Chuck
Wow! Look at the three crosman PCP`s at PA. Discovery, Mrdr, and katana. Kool! Where did those awsome prices come from?!:)
Hmmm…maybe those prices fell over the edge ;-D
-Chuck
BB,
I think the scoring is from the 25 yard airgun rules of BR 50. One shot per bull and all the holes have to be clean to earn the higher score–unlike most other shooting disciplines where advantage always goes to the shooter. In BR 50 the disadvantage goes to the shooter. If it's questionable, it's OUT.
http://www.airguns.net/comp_br50.php
It's not that far off though if you think about it with air rifle shots being scored as 10.9's instead of 10's or counting x's.
Still, you remember shooting national match pistol and having an alibi in timed or rapid fire? After you re-shoot the 5-shot string, they only score the 10 lowest on the target.
Since you guys are talking about scoring back when I was shooting rimfire bullseye pistol we had a scoring plug. A little metal plug with a magnifying glass around it. What is the right name for it and do you know if they come in .177?
Scott
Scott,
I wish I had one of those plugs. They would be so much easier to use. What I do is, for those shots that are questionable, I push a pellet through the hole and it accurately shows where the edges are and if the pellet has touched a ring. It's amazing how many are actually just barely touching a ring.
-Chuck
Kevin,
I ordered the Laurel Mountain Forge Maple, but I agree that the rest of the walnut stain needs to come out first. I don't think the water based stripper will do it. Is MEK used in denatured alcohol?
I just touched one area of the stock with 600 after I stripped. As for the dents, they came out with the stripper alone – I expected to have to steam them out. I don't feel anything at all in those areas now.
The RLO arrived today. If I can get the stain right, I think I'll have a decent looking stock. I'll continue to document this on Picasa as I go.
B.B.
I'm really enjoying the series on the new 10m rifles. If the year goes well, I may be looking for a classic 10m at Roanoke next fall!
Jay
I just caught up on my reading today and was shocked to see all the current and former car enthusiasts on the blog!Well,count me in!!!!!Kevin,I don't know what else to say but WOW;You have lived one of my dreams.A Pantera…Big credit from Me for going with Webers!She must have been sweet. My current proj. is a 1966 Chrysler New Yorker with the first year 440.The car is Persian white and has 57,000 actual miles on it.I just put a highrise intake,ported and polished heads,TTI long tube headers,etc…This car is a time machine/muscle car/luxury liner!Even the dash clock works!As you can probably tell I love my car…alot! Frank B
Chuck,
I do the same thing. I'm using JSB exacts and they don't punch that pretty hole punch hole like a wadcutter does. What looks like a lower score often gets bumped up when you push a pellet through the hole to see where it really is.
Scott
Scott,
I have no idea what those scoring thingies are called, but I do know that they exist in .177. Last week, I tried my hand for the first time at 10m pistol shooting. One of the folks there had something like what you describe, with both .177 and .22 silhouettes etched in the bottom glass.
BTW, having never shot proper air pistols, nor for that matter any sort of formal 10m stuff, I had a pretty good time. I don't own an air pistol, but the nice folks I shoot with always bring spares, and I was promptly hooked up with an IZH-46m. I mostly shoot my box-stock Disco, so it's always quite an eye-opener to experience a light target trigger like on the 46m, or on all the wild space guns at the FT matches.
My initial reaction to the 10m pistol shooting was similar to my rookie FT forays: "you want me to hit that with this???" Very challenging, but fun.
-Jan
Jay,
I'm watching your project with interest, since those LMF stains are on my "to try" list. On beech, I'm guessing the maple stain should be about the same as on maple, perhaps a little more reddish (as on cherry), so I think you'll be happy, and it will be a much clearer and better finish than what was on there.
FrankB,
Now that is a car. The 440 is unbelievable. Keep the exhaust note discrete and you can have some fun with punks and a nice ride.
BG Farmer,Keeping the exaust note discrete is like hiding a elephant in some rice crispies!LOL I want a bumper sticker that says"not a hemi…Bigger!"I thought about some really quiet mufflers,but with cut-outs for fun time:O.the motor made 485 ft/lbs of torque STOCK at 2800 rpm.It pulls like a jet engine at any speed…..and has fact. air conditioning still on R12.I'll have pictures up after Christmas. Frank B
Jay,
MEK is the acronym for Methyl Ethyl Ketone. Any hardware store or home improvement store will carry it. It will say MEK on the can.
This will pull out any residual oil from the former stains from your stock. Hopefully, it will also pull out the remaining stain/dye. If it doesn't try your water based stripper, let it soak in then take a toothbrush and gently try to work the remaining stain loose. There are also strips made that are impregnated with stripper (look for citrus strips). Place these directly over the remaining stain, press them into the stained areas and peel off. The last thing you want to try is a solvent based stripper. It's difficult to get these solvents out of stocks and the stain will not adhere to these areas. Over time your stain/dye will deteriorate when placed over a solvent based stripper. MEK works well to nuetralize these solvent based strippers but not 100% of the time.
kevin
Frank B.
The 1966 Chrysler New Yorker with the first year 440 is a true classic. You could land a 747 on that hood.
I count myself lucky to have lived through the pantera days. That little red car attracted speeding tickets like manure attracts flies. Great time but I'm glad I got that out of my system.
kevin
$100,000 worth of stock refinishing info? Where?
What did I miss?
kevin
"Scoring gauge" or "scoring plug" sounds like the term we used in bullsye. I recall that was important that the plug was only used once in the hole to measure for score. taking it out and retrying was grounds to getting the lower point value. The plugs are caliber specific.
Also saw some transparent plastic overlays overlays that had various calibers on them. Harder to center.
Overlays overlays overlays. Sorry it's been another 10 hour day.
CJr,
I was trying to find the matches you've been shooting to check out the size of the target. Where is PA hiding them?
What gun are you using–Mr T, Ms M or someone I haven't met?
I've improved by bench rest shooting by using 1/4" sticky dots mounted on cut up cardboard boxes which I clip to the target holder.
One shot per dot at 16 yards with my best being 5 in a row. With a direct hit the dot vanishes. Used to just make the dots with a magic marker, but they varried too much in size.
Sometimes I will zoom the scope until the dot just disappears behind the cross hairs when it's perfectly centered for the shot.
Other times I'll shoot some random holes in a piece of card board and use them for my target. I really like it when I cann't see any change in the size of the targeted hole. When I'm doing this type of shooting, the scope is cranked up to its maximum 12x.
Hope some of that is a help to you.
Mr B.
So Frank B. – are you going with Thrush Cherry Bomb mufflers on that Boat? 🙂
All you old timers, remember those? Started out with glass packing as I recall and the noise got nicer and nicer as the 'glass burned out.
Frank, still waiting for a call from my buddy that the 46M has arrived. I hate this!
Fred
MrB,that's my favorite way to sight in a new scope-rifle combo…play three shots follow the new hole.The three shot groups tell if all else is right,and the average is my dial in…Something else we have in common,I'm from upstate NY also! Frank B
BG Farmer,
Thanks for the tip on the reticle and parallax – I'll fiddle with the focus and work to get it dead nuts. Thanks for the link – I had used the "blank wall" method, so this will help greatly. I had thought that getting to only 1mm of movement was pretty good, as BB has always indicated that you couldn't get rid of it completely. Apparently we can, at least to the optical limits of the scope.
I am game for pretty much anything that will make me a better shot. I keep working at it and practicing . . . but I still feel that in my case, parallax is not the culprit to the problem of moving groups – I must be doing something inconsistent. I'll keep working at it. I wish I had bought something of better known accuracy than my Quest – then I would know better if it is me or the gun. But it is all I can do for now; hopefully I'll be able to take a better step in a few months.
Also, it is clear you are helping me and others with your comments. There is nothing you wrote that could be construed otherwise. I see you often are concerned about somebody misunderstanding, but I always feel your responses to questions are positive and helpful. You are a great contributor here. Hopefully I'll be able to help more as I learn more and get better. Unfortunately I don't have a shooting background – just and engineer's inquisitive approach and a newfound (rediscovered?) love for it. I never had BB guns as a lad (I have a "you'll shoot your eye out" mom, and my wife is the same too!), but loved shooting my friends guns . . . .
Alan
Fred,You can buy cherry bombs here still.I had them a few years back on a 360 magnum mtr.Set off alarms on both sides of the street by accident!This time Delta 40's with long tube headers…best technology for the aplication.This is my daily driver,and I have neibors to think about.The sound still makes your adreniline flow…in a classic luxury car!It even has an AM radio with a fader!
…Also,Fred,sorry about the wait!Don't worry,Santa is bringing you a real gem of precision engineering from Russia.I hope you get real good with it.My back keeps me from having a stable base for one handed precise shooting.The handle should be a whole lot closer to fitting your hand than stock configuration.Let me know if you like it!
Found scoring plugs at Champions Choice 800-345-7179 or champchoice.com $10
Scott
By the way I tried roadracing motorcycles for a bit. Does that gain me any credit here?
And you get credit for finding scoring plugs!!10 bucks is much less than the three microphone ones the Olimpics uses! What was your favorite bike??US,Japan,Italy,or germany??
Frank B,
Small world isn't it. I'm from the Syracuse/Auburn area.
Left along time ago, but still have a little cabin on Cayuga Lake. Wonderful memories!
Mr B.
Frank,
Always wanted a Ducati but could never afford one. Rode an FZR600 on the track. Have a friend that has done very well recently on a 680? Triumph. Wish I would have put my ZX-7 Kawasaki on the track but never wanted to tear it up.
I thought $10 was cheap. I'm gonna get one in .177 and .22.
Scott
Is it just me, or are we experiencing a "golden age" of BB guns? Looking at PA, there are so many models, more than just a couple of years ago. And BB's tests seem to indicate that many of them are good performers.
–Mike U
Mr B,I caught my first largemouth bass on Cayuga lake!!small world indeed!Grew up[older] in Troy,NY about 10 min. from Bennington VT.Family in Waterloo & Geneva… Scott,Who doesn't want a Ducatti!Modern art that goes fast…Like a turbo Hayabusa. Frank B
Kevin,
$100,000 and counting! Many good ideas are still coming.
-Chuck
Mr B,
I couldn't find it on the PA home page either. The address is:
http://www.airgunarena.com/index.php/Main_Page
When there, look to left for "eMatch info", then look for the various targets and rules at that link.
I thought PA had a link to the site but maybe I got the address from one of the posts.
I use Mr T since the rules state .177 only and Mr T is my most accurate .177. Lately I've been grooming my 953 also, to compete with multiple rifles. I also hope to compete in the silhouettes someday but that's offhand standing and that's really tough for me.
-Chuck
BG_Farmer,
A 100-gram load of black power, eh? Well, that will wake the neighbors, and disassemble your gun for cleaning, all at once. Too bad you won't live to tell it.
B.B.
Chuck,
It sounds like you are shooting BR-V. Edith used to compete in BR-50, which was the predecessor to BR-V. She used a Barnes Ranger rifle with an offset scope to work with her left eye.
It's a tough sport for sure! They used to call the center a mothball, and the goal was to clean the target with all mothballs.
B.B.
BB,
I don't know where my son picked up that "metric" talk, he didn't hear it at home:). I think he thought "grains" (when I told him it was an 80 gr. load) must be grams. Unfortunately, when I told him how devestating a 100 gram load would be, he only wanted a 200 gram load. Even with my puny "safe" load, he went "oh yeah" every time he saw the smoke and heard the clap (had hearing protection, by the way). If you think there's a danger of anyone trying a 100 gram load, you can edit or delete my comment.
BG_Farmer,
Take 'em right out of the gene pool, what?
B.B.
BWAHAHAHA
100 gram load???
rednecks famous last words
"hey yall,watch this!"
JTinAL
My Colt Defender co2 gun is leaking, can anyone tell whats going on. I have the gun now for about 7 days. My gun leaks when I put in a new co2 cylinder.
Thanks in advance!
David,
Have you been putting a drop of Crosman Pellgunoil on the tip of each new cartridge as you pierce it?
Have you only been screwing the cartridge screw until the cartridge is pierced? Going farther can tear the face seal in the gun.
B.B.
Maybe it's just me, but after putting a couple thousand rounds down my outdoor 50 yard range, I have noticed my bulls-eye hits are more consistent when the target is smaller, such as an empty pellet tin. I wondered if it was due to a lack of concentration when confronted by a full size target paper as opposed to a tiny target propped against a tree. Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?
Al,
You make a very good point. A smaller aimpoint usually shrinks groups.
The old adage applies, "Aim small miss small."
Please let us know how you progress by posting on the current blog. Here's the address that you will need to copy and paste in your browser:
/blog//
kevin
i bought a colt defender yesterday, 01/10/13 and right out of the box at 25 feet, i shot 122 rounds on one co2 cartrige and had only 12 rounds that were slightly out of the center green of the target, it was awesom, i really liked the front sight mark, good for quick aiming, for the money i couldnt be happier
i just got done shooting my colt defender for the second time, it is very accurate i put 230 rounds through it, with 200 of them hiting the green 5 in center of the target, from aboat twenty five feet, i got 142 rounds from one cylinder, the one thing i had problems with was copper coated bbs, they jammed the gun, but ounce i switched to zinc coated bbs it was smooth shootin