Ruger Explorer – Parts 2 & 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1


How did Ruger’s new Explorer perform in testing? Read on.

I’m compressing this report because of Christmas looming next week. Several readers are considering the Ruger Explorer for kids and grandkids, and I want to finish the report for them.

Although I shot for accuracy first and did velocity testing afterward, I will report them in the usual way.

H&N Finale Match Pistol
H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets weigh 7.56 grains, nominally. Being lighter, they go faster than some rifle target pellets that weigh over 8 grains. I shot from a rest at 10 meters. I shot using the open sights on the rifle and each target got 10 pellets.

They averaged 437 f.p.s., with a spread from 420 to 444. However, only two shots went slower than 437 f.p.s. They dragged the average down. Without them the average would have been about 440.

I didn’t learn that there might be a problem with the gun’s powerplant while shooting these pellets, but when I shot Beeman Bearcubs next, the problem jumped out at me. I will discuss what I did in a moment, but after adjusting the breech seal to sit higher and oiling the piston, both things to fix the “problem” that really wasn’t there, the average for H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets climbed to 453 f.p.s. and had a spread of only 7 f.p.s. I think the breech seal may have been marginal in the first test, though not so much that it matters.

Beeman Bearcub
I tested Beeman Bearcub pellets next, and they were all over the place. From a low of 376 f.p.s. to a high of 454 f.p.s. They’re what started me thinking that there might be a problem. It seemed that the breech seal might have been marginal. I shimmed it, as Vince instructed us to. The velocity seemed to climb, but it was still erratic, so I oiled the piston seal with two drops of Chamber Lube.

I’m normally the person who cautions against over-oiling a spring-piston airgun, but when they exhibit erratic velocity, sometimes oiling is the right cure. Only this wasn’t the time. The velocity was still erratic. So erratic that I didn’t bother computing the average velocity. I did, however, return and retest the H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets, and they were both faster and more uniform. The improvement was hardly worth the effort, though. It seems the gun wasn’t malfunctioning at all. It just did not like the Beeman Bearcub pellets.

RWS Meisterkugeln Standard
RWS Meisterkugeln Standard pellets go way back in time. I was shooting them in the 1970s. At the time, they were considered one of the best pellets available. In the Explorer, they averaged 426 f.p.s., with a spread from 423 f.p.s. to 430.

So, the Explorer is about where it should be power-wise. Perhaps, this example is on the slow side of average, but that’s about all. And the consistency is great for a brand-new spring rifle. Let’s take a look at accuracy.

Accuracy
I set up a target at 10 meters, because this is a youth rifle, after all. It’ll be used for plinking and target shooting. No one in their right mind would ever shoot it at an animal. We are talking about bouncing pop cans and water bottle caps around the back yard.

First to be tested were the H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets. Once I got the rifle sighted in, I shot a 10-shot group. Shooting a paper target with open sights is a real trip, because you cannot see what you are doing until lots of pellets have passed through the same hole. Well, that’s what happened with Finale Match, or pretty close to it.


Ten H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets went into a nice group at 10 meters. The 9-ring, which is just inside the 8-ring, isn’t much larger than an American quarter or a one-Euro coin. I see potential here.

Next, I tested the Beeman Bearcubs. If there’s a better way to represent the difference in accuracy between average pellets like the Bearcubs and superior pellets like the Finale Match than these two targets, I sure don’t know what it is. It is crystal-clear the rifle likes the Finale Match pellets better than the Bearcubs.


Ten Beeman Bearcubs look like a shotgun pattern. Though this group isn’t much larger than the group made by the Finale Match Pistol pellets, the dispersion of pellets within the group tells a different story.

RWS Meisterkugeln pellets were next. I didn’t expect them to be as good as Finale Match, which shows how little I know. When you see the group you will see that they were the best of all. And not just slightly better, either. No, the Meisterkugeln were demonstrably better than the Finale Match in the Explorer.


That’s what I wanted to see! This 10-shot group declares the Explorer to be an accurate youth rifle.

Next time, I might shoot two more groups and watch the Finale Match come out on top of the Meisters. But one thing I don’t expect is for the Bearcubs to ever challenge either one of these two target pellets in this rifle.

Firing behavior
The Explorer trigger is two-stage, and stage two is long and creepy. It breaks at 4 lbs., 12 ozs. effort. The automatic safety has to be pushed in before taking the shot. When the rifle fires, there’s very little vibration. It’s a good, solid feel.

I must note that as short and petite as this rifle is, it was a challenge for me to shoot it off a bench. In the hands of a smaller shooter, this will be a dynamite shooter.

One final observation, is that the barrel is held to the spring tube by a bolt and nut. Many new guns are using pins these days, but not the Explorer. That means you can adjust the barrel tension as the gun wears in, which means a long life.

The bottom line
We’ve gained another good youth air rifle. And one that sells for a remarkable price. Buy it with confidence this Christmas and for those other important events that will arise in the future.

95 Responses to “Ruger Explorer – Parts 2 & 3”

  • twatalon Says:

    B.B.
    Sounds like a nice little rifle for bug hunting too. It could also be used for wacking sparrows, but nothing bigger at those velocities.
    Could be a nice little fun gun for sure.

    twotalon

  • twotalon Says:

    Mr. B and BG_Farmer
    From yesterday……..
    48 has open sights only…that's what I wanted.
    Square notch/blade with no fiber optics. No plans to scope it at present.

    I grew up shooting open sights. The 48 shoulders just right for the sight position. The weight and balsnce make it very steady.
    Yes, it's heavy but promises to be about the closest thing to fitting me right that I have found in a long time. Going to be fun.
    Should have got one of these a long time ago.

    twotalon

  • Mr B. Says:

    Morning TwoTalon,

    Thanks for letting me know that you're using the iron sights on your 48. You're getting me interested in unscoping my Diana 35 and putting her iron sights back, but then the trifocals can get very problematic.

    However, that will have to wait until after the holidays cause I'm behind in what has to happen between now and the 25th.

    Mr B.

  • twotalon Says:

    Mr B.
    Trifocals here too, but was not that big of a problem with open sights, except for handguns.

    Will see how it goes after cataract surgery. Sure to need at least some kind of glasses .

    twotalon

  • Anonymous Says:

    "No one in their right mind would ever shoot it at an animal." I'm guessing that, if these make it into the hands of young boys, that'll happen quite a bit. But then, I guess your statement is correct, since no one ever claimed that young boys are in their right mind. I know I wasn't. (Some say I'm still not.)

    Jim in PGH

  • Mr B. Says:

    TwoTalon,

    I'm taking a dear friend on the 22nd for cataract surgery. Jim told me that his doctor told him he probably will not be needing his glasses after his surgery.

    Maybe the same will apply to you!

    Mr B.

  • twotalon Says:

    Mr B
    Guess i will find out.

    twotalon

  • Nathan Says:

    does it have a leather or synthetic piston seal? Where is the link to Vince's seal shim post?

    Thanks
    Nathan

  • kevin Says:

    Nathan,

    The search box on the right hand side of this page is a great tool. Not only will it allow you to search the 1,300+ articles that B.B. has written it also searches the comments made under every article. Fantastic library.

    I entered "vince seal shim" in the search box and found this for you:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/04/shimming-diana-breech-seal.html

    Happy Holidays!
    kevin

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Nathan,

    In this day and age I would assume the seal in synthetic. Leather seals are still made, so the assumption carries a risk, but with a high-rate production gun that they obviously expect this to become, I think synthetic is most likely.

    Kevin got the other question for you. Thanks, Kevin. :)

    B.B.

  • FRED Says:

    Twotalon,

    I know a number of folks who have had cataract surgery. It's an out-patient procedure and I understand that the new, replacement lens being used, called an intra-ocular implant, is superb resulting in very little need or minor need for farsighted (hyperopia) correction.

    You will be fine and shooting the bullseye out of targets a few days
    after the operation!

    In the spirit of the Holiday Season, I decided to go fishing and look for another used air rifle so the ad has gone back into the local penny saver. This is in addition to negotiations I am now involved in with Frank B and his IZH 46M.

    I'll keep the list informed of any catches I make.

    Fred

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Fred,

    I, too, have a fish on the line. If I'm lucky, I'll blog it when I get it. It's one I have never mentioned, and it is a classic.

    B.B.

  • Gerry Says:

    Good morning,
    Just a quick question. Can someone please tell me the correct o-ring(breach seal) size/AS568A Dash No. for Diana 34/350 rifles. I'm trying to find it on the McMaster Carr wedbsite. Also, should I look under "Rubber O-rings" or one of the other 8 or 9 materials listed?
    Thanx,
    Gerry

  • wayne Says:

    Sleigh bells ring…. are you listening?

    Wacky Wayne

  • FRED Says:

    Gerry,

    RWS air rifles use an A-109 sized o-ring for the breach seal. There's a lot of comments and blogs about replacing and shimming these seals occasionally to eliminate blow-by of the compressed air. You can find it using the search function to the right of the blog (enter RWS o rings or breech seals) but for now, this is the size O-ring you want.

    BB – we'll have to "compare bait".

    Fred

  • FRED Says:

    Gerry,

    neoprene is fine but almost any material will suffice.

    Fred

  • Anonymous Says:

    b.b., is this something we need to worry about?
    The EPA has just classed CO2 as a substance harmful to humans and that COMMERCIAL PRODUCTION of CO2 should be regulated, as well as regulating its emission as a greenhouse gas.
    The 'commercial production' sounds like CO2 cartridges could be at risk in the near future.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    CSD,

    Since the "Global Warming" scam has recently been debunked as a sham and an untrue plot to raise money (the earth is warming, but it isn't driven by mankind), I suspect the left is now attempting to build other bridges to do similar harm to society.

    Yes, we should watch it, because now that we know global warming is untrue (at least mankind's part in it), then the logic for greenhouse gasses is all bunk, too.

    B.B.

  • Gerry Says:

    B.B,
    It's no secret that the majority of airgunners are slightly to the right of Jesse Helms. But not all of us airgunners nor those of us who have served our country have opinions that are formed exclusively by the Fox New Channel. Are you sure you want to alienate all of the Pyramyd Air customers who don't march lock step with the Glen Beck crowd.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Gerry,

    Agreement with others is not a requirement for participation in this blog. B.B. is also allowed to express himself, as are you.

    Edith

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    Good shooting. The velocity is low enough to be in the safer range for young plinkers, not a bad thing.

    Edith,
    It clearly says in the Constitution that free speech is only extended to people who agree with the current majority or government position — what kind of crazies would have wanted a country where people could hold dissenting views:)?

    TwoTalon,
    That does sound like fun — I was thinking you were using it with open sights. Once a certain level of precision is reached with benched and scoped rifle, the only progress is back to basics:)!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Gerry,

    Actually, my answer was entirely necessary. The left has created the lie of "global warming" and mined the fears of people who can't think for themselves and are willing to let big government "solve" all their problems for them. Problems the government has created and nurtured, by the way, just to keep those people in fear. Problems like global warming that is now exposed for the junk science it is.

    Cowboy Star Dad asked me if I thought the move by the EPA was worth watching, and, since it is based on the lie of human-produced "greenhouse gasses," which is part of the global warming charade, then, yes, I do believe that it bears watching.

    Pardon me if I gave the reasons for my belief, but there they are. And I am not afraid to mention them in public.

    Merry Christmas,

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Whole-heartedly agree Edith.
    I kinda thought that was what the First Amend was all about.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • Gerry Says:

    I am not questioning whether or not it is allowed. I am questioning whether such a comment is appropriate for this venue and whether or not it a wise business decision. My wife recently ran for office in our town. But she did not ask any business owners to put one of her signs in their window because didn't want to take a chance of alienating any of their customers who might be supporting her opponent. Understand?

    grackledown

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Gerry,

    I do understand. I don't necessarily agree, but I do understand.

    B.B.

  • Gerry Says:

    The whole first ammendment thing is a bogus issue. I'm not suggesting that B.B. be arrested for making such a comment. Only that in this venue such comments can have consequences. The government can't arrest me for telling one of my customers that he is a fool. But my customer also has the right to be insulted by such a comment and to inform other customers as well.

  • Gerry Says:

    Happy Hanukkah

    grackledown

  • Vince Says:

    Gerry, the regulation of CO2 AND THE REASONS FOR DOING SO are indeed pertinent to this blog.

    BB's assesment isn't without technical merit… the concerns over AGW are driven by computer models, and the computer models haven't proven to be accurate. So at best it's a phenomena that's not understood very well, and is plausibly a phenomena that doesn't exist.

    We have (some) politicians and (some) scientists issuing dire warnings about an impending disaster that can only be averted by… putting more money and power into the hands of those same politicians and scientists.

    To that, intense skepticism is not an unreasonable response.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I'd like to weigh in with a Canadian viewpoint.
    There's a lot I love about Canada, especially the health system ;-)
    But one thing that rankles me, and which I think the US has a definite advantage is that, for the most part, you are allowed to, and expect to be able to voice your opinion.
    Lets limit this to the gun issue, which I think dovetails well with b.b.'s opinion on global warming (meaning not exactly a liberal viewpoint).
    We in Canada have very draconian gun laws.
    The gun 'registration' is a multi billion dollar farce. (like who ever expected the local crack dealer to register his stolen handgun)
    Any air rife over 500fps is looked at by much of the population as a potent killing machine that should be abolished.
    And one of the reasons is that a very large percentage of shooters in Canada don't tell anyone of their hobby (other than their shooting friends) because, as Gerry mentions, they fear alienating friends or business associtates.
    With regards to global warming I fall into that camp that is pretty middle of the road. I don't think we can continue crapping up the planet endlessly…but at the same time the earth has gone through quite a few drastic climactic changes in the past (in fact many scientist say that we are actually in and ice age that is just ending).
    No one really knows whether 'global warming' is us (humanity) or just the natural state of this place we call earth.
    (and those that will vehemently claim it's us…we their are absolutely no undisputed facts that prove this).
    Anyways…I digress.
    My point is that as soon as people start to clam up so they don't offend anyone…you're soon on the slippery slope of allowing only one opinion…which usually only suits a little over 50% of the populace.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • Vince Says:

    BB, I'm a little befuddled by your selection of test pellets for this gun. I would have thought that for a low-cost, low-powered kid's gun it would be more in character to try out some of the cheaper wadcutter pellets – Beeman Sportsman, Gamo Match, Crosman Copperhead, and so on. When I was a kid, I pretty much had to pay for my own ammo…

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Gerry,

    The First Amendment has nothing to do with this discussion. The First Amendment limits what laws Congress may enact. You should read what it really means sometime.

    As for calling customers fools, I don't believe I did that. I think that was your word.

    What I won't do is back away from the truth, even when people try to shame me into it.

    Are you saying that I have called YOU a fool? If that is so, I am sorry for it.

    And Happy Chanukah to you–this being the sixth day of the festival.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    I suppose you are right about the pellets. But I always seem to default to the same five or six pellet types that I thought I'd break out and try something new for a change. I really didn't consider the price of the gun, and now that you mention it, I should have.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Since we are on the subject (not really, but I couldn't resist), I can't stand Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or Fox News. Talk about "creating and nurturing problems just to keep people in fear." These guys are the worst…

    "If government runs health care we're all gonna die well before our respective times"

    "If we don't keep troops over seas we'll all be killed by terrorists"

    "The left is going to take away all our guns, take over the country, and kill us all"

    "If we give money to poor people they will come back and kill us"

    "If we don't continue to fight the war on drugs a bunch of junkies are going to kill us"

    I'm scared to death just thinking about it.

    Have fun with this one,

    -Aaron

  • PurcHawk Says:

    Mr.Gaylord:

    Life is full of disappointments, and after your remarks today, this blog has become one of them for me.

    I think I can live without it from now on.

  • Anonymous Says:

    purchawk…so you're fine with people as long as they completely agree with you??
    I for one won't miss you.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • kevin Says:

    I believe it's hard for a mind to distinguish between something vividly imagined and reality.

    Therefore, it's not hard to understand the comfort that living in a vacuum provides many people.

    The problem with concern over alienating someone, risking being politically incorrect, is that it requires silence on controversial issues. Silence is easily interpreted as acceptance and/or compliance.

    History has taught us that when you finally realize it's time to emerge from your vacuum and speak out, it's usually too late.

    kevin

  • FRED Says:

    You know, there are 4 topics that are bound to cause significant discussion, disagreements, name calling and worse. One of them is politics (need to reduce global warming? Wait for a massive volcanic eruption to throw a few trillion tons of dust into the atmosphere and reflect all that warming sunlight to Mars:) The second is religion. The third is who is and isn't a good car driver and the fourth is who is and isn't a good lover.

    Now I'm being partially facetious on numbers 3 and 4 but…. anyone out there want to come forward and say they're not a good driver or lover? I thought so.

    Folks, while BB and Mrs. BB like to keep this an open forum, we know that we will all occasionally divert from the intended purpose and so long as we all respect the other bloggees' opinions, we don't have to agree with it and Lord knows, more than one person will take exception to who thinks they're a good driver, we do need to accept their opinion, have a thick skin and not take anything personally. Friends, and i count you all as my friends even though I've only met two of you, can disagree. Eventually we will come back to the point of this blog and that's airguns. Good try, Vince.

    Hang around, Purchawk. You're allowed to skip or skim over those topics that don't interest you, be they PCP's, fluid dynamics or global warming.

    Now, let me tell you my theory on organized religion……

    Fred

  • Frank B Says:

    BB,as a master angler I know you don't need it but good luck!!I hope you reel in the big one! Now for Fred,I'll say this…The holidays are upon us,be it Christmas,Hanuka,Kwansa,or Festivus for the rest of us…I plan on giving Fred an offer he "can't refuse".And yes,my last name does end with a vowel…LOL

  • Gerry Says:

    Is anyone getting my point? It has nothing to do with what the comment was, it has to do with WHERE the comment was. I don't think it is appropriate here, just as it would not be appropriate for a car dealer to spew off on the same subject in front of his customers, even though the topic is related to cars. Because he will alienate half of his customers. There are plenty of political forums out there. Do you really want to make this one of them? Every bartenter knows that there are two subjects that he should never bring up. Because it's bad business.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Fred,

    No, I have already been skunked. The item was mysteriously withdrawn about seven hours before it was supposed to have expired. No reason was given and I have nothing, as a result.

    I look at it as my good fortune, though I may never discover why. Now it's up to you, alone, to thrill us with your catch.

    B.B.

  • wayne Says:

    Let's all think about what Kevin wrote again….

    "I believe it's hard for a mind to distinguish between something vividly imagined and reality.

    Therefore, it's not hard to understand the comfort that living in a vacuum provides many people.

    The problem with concern over alienating someone, risking being politically incorrect, is that it requires silence on controversial issues. Silence is easily interpreted as acceptance and/or compliance.

    History has taught us that when you finally realize it's time to emerge from your vacuum and speak out, it's usually too late.

    kevin

    I can't say it any better, so I'm just putting my name below it too..

    don't matter where you stand, left right or middle.. what Kevin said is the bottom line for all!

    wayne burns

  • Anonymous Says:

    I get your point Gerry. But I can agree with being able to voice your opinion in business. Car dealerships and bars tend to attract a diversity of people with different views. Guns and shooting tend to attract a certain group of people who are self sufficient, like to cut through the BS, and live in an honest and straightforward way. Now not all of them are like that, but enough are.

    There have been times that this blog has gone onto subjects that I wasn't interested in, so I didn't read it that day, but would see the comments explode (so there were lots of people interested even if I wasn't).

    On a happy note- I ordered 5,000 pellets of varying .177 weight and manufacture along with a peep sight today. I can't wait until Christmas.

    Al In CT

  • FRED Says:

    The hook is baited and the line will be cast upon the waters (religious pun intended) next week. We'll see what bites (no pun intended on that line).

    Frank B – I've been going to the same barber, Tony, for 30 years. He's the ONLY millionaire barber in Essex County here in the Republic of NJ I know. Can you imagine how many heads he had to cut to save that much money? ;) Oh, and the Vig on the street last week was 4.25%. That's weekly, not annual.

    I speak the language but I NEVER ask for a favor.

    Fred

  • Anonymous Says:

    Here's a blog I would be interested in. Are things made today as inferior to those items made in the past. I'll use airguns here, but I guess it could be applied to a lot of things. It seems you can't swing a dead cat without reading some where that the new model you just bought is a steaming pile of you-know-what, but the one made thirty years ago of which they have three, is the pinnacle of craftmanship, fit, finish and performance.

    What do some of you readers think?

    Al in CT

  • Frank B Says:

    Fred,Your kneecaps are safe…The offer is;scope,base,and gun for 350$ shipped to "da guy in Philli".And it's a right hander,light shaping on the handle to fit your hand,no hack job here.Do I hear "fish on!"

  • kevin Says:

    Gerry,

    Appreciate your perspective. Couple of observations.

    I got your point. You don't feel that controversial (political) issues mix with a good business model since you assuredly will alienate a segment of your potential customers. You also feel strongly that this shouldn't be a political forum.

    I've read almost every article written by B.B. (1,300 +/-) and most of the comments associated. I've never had the impression that B.B. wanted or attempted to make this a political forum. His answer and subsequent explanation today that you took umbrage to was a reply to an airgun related question. Although you differ in his opinion I think accusing this forum of becoming political is extreme.

    More to the heart of your point, mixing business and politics is an ancient conundrum.

    So what is the answer? Do we draw a line between ourselves and our work/business and attempt to pass as mainstream so as to protect our jobs/livelihood?

    I think being authentic at work is a universal struggle. In fact I think being authentic is a struggle, period. In my opinion, too many people hide their beliefs for the sake of the dollar.

    To summarize, I've never gotten the impression that this blog wanted to be political but appreciate and feel it's invigorating on the rare occassions that it is. I may not always agree with the positions taken but I try to keep an open mind since I don't know everything yet.

    Happy Holidays!

    kevin

  • Rich Says:

    Hey everyone, I knew there was a reason why I really like reading this blog, you guys really make it great and I enjoy the diversity of opinions even if I don't agree.
    Ok, so bottom line for me on this global warming thing is just like any other politically driven issue, just follow the money trail.
    The people who are pushing this seem to have the most to gain. Global warming is not an envoirnmental issue, it is and always will be pollitical.
    Hope I didn't heat this up.

    Rich

  • Anonymous Says:

    Wow, bb says somthing that could be related to politics and K-boom. Just look at the comments! This may turn into a Friday! I`m fine with what he said but isnt this an airgun blog? Like he said, it kida was nesesary.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I mean, about the CO2 thing.

  • Desertdweller Says:

    I posted a comment on the Airgun Arena a few days ago about this CO2 ruling. So far, my thread has gotten no comments.

    Come to think of it, our guns use a substance far more toxic than CO2. Lead. I haven't seen anything done to limit our use of that element, so maybe CO2 isn't as endangered as we may fear.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Deasertdweler,

    Thats kida surprizeing, with all this stuff about lead piosoning. Not that i think we should all shoot Gamo lead-free raptors!

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Why does every political discussion have to turn into an angry peeing contest?

    Why can't somebody have a contrasting viewpoint without being smeared as an idiot, or mindless ideologue?

    Why do we have to walk on eggshells around issues if we have opinions we have the right to give voice to?

    Why can't intelligent adults disagree?

    Why can't we be grateful that we live in a country where we have the freedom (for now) to voice our thoughts peacefully without being shot dead in the streets or being held prisoner/tortured?

    Why aren't any of the above 'quotes' attributed to anyone?

    Thank you BB for speaking your mind, and digging in to defend your point of view. It reminds me of an old article you wrote about a science fair with an exhibit about bb guns. I happen to agree with you on this issue. But when I disagree with you, I don't hold you or this blog in any lower regard.

    On the subject of Fox News and such, this is a sterling example of The Emperor Wears No Clothes parable. Possibly the most instructive story ever told.

    The New York Times kept Jason Blair on staff after they found out he was faking some stories and plagiarizing others. They only fired him after the real authors of one of the stories blew the whistle.

    Dan Rather knowingly went on the air with fake memos less than two weeks from a presidential election.

    AP photographers have been caught photoshopping extra carnage into their photographs.

    Chris Matthews could not contain himself enough to keep from excitedly exclaiming " I have a chill running up my leg!" during a speech from a presidential candidate last year.

    Yet, Fox News is the whipping boy?

    I watch Fox News, I enjoy Glen Beck. But just like every other information source I take what I hear and use critical judgement to weed out facts from lies and half truths. Only rubes believe everything they see on TV.

    I am a conservative, and I don't march lock step with ANYBODY! I only hope you right thinking liberals feel the same way. I love the opportunity to have a rational debate with anybody regardless of political orientation. The problem is that many times those with opposed view points degrade into infantile name calling and the inevitable "You probably watch FOX NEWS."

    If PurcHawk decides not to participate anymore I won't say he won't be missed because I think he has something to offer, but it's going to hurt him more than it hurts the rest of us.

    If you disagree compose a well reasoned and respectful response. Immature name calling and knee jerk boycotting add nothing to the discussion.

    Sincerely,

    Slinging Lead from Powder Springs

  • Anonymous Says:

    Gerry
    I have a sign in my office (remember, I sell cameras) that states 'photography, philosophy and guns'…all interests of mine.
    After sitting in the same office for nearly 20 years I've aquired a substantial customer base that have remainded loyal for many years.
    Customers that include our city police, our provincial police, professors at our university…I could go on and on.
    A lot of them have become friends and many come in to have a coffee and shoot the breeze.
    And many talk guns.
    Some talk global warming.
    Some talk social network programs.
    Most of them know my political leanings (my screensave is a CZ pistol and every year I hang the Canadian Armed Forces Calendar). Many of them have consevative leanings as myself…many lean to the left.
    I can honestly say that I don't think I've lost one single customer over the years because they disagreed with 'my way of thinking'.
    Gerry, I feel that you do a dis-service to anyone dealing in the business world…whether it be sales, service or professional and there customers. Personally I feel that most of my clients are grown up enough to deal with differing opionions (unlike purchawk). And personally, if they are that narrow minded that I can't have an opinion whilst at work…well, there are lots of other places that sell camera gear. I'm not about to compromise my opinions/morals to make a sale.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    BB doesn't "spew" anything!

  • Anonymous Says:

    When Edith said, "Agreement with others is not a requirement for participation in this blog" and that "B.B. is also allowed to express himself," she missed the point. This blog is attached to a commercial enterprise. B.B.'s free to express his opinions, certainly, but at the risk of alienating Pyramyd Air's customers. Why risk alienating customers?

    I've been reading this blog daily for two years, and one of the things I enjoy most about it, and by extension the hobby of airgunning itself (PAR is what brought me into airgunning in the first place) is that airgunning enthusiasts seem above politics, or at least outwardly so. Here at PAR it's all nuts and bolts. Guns are guns. They're not political symbols. A powerlet is a powerlet, not an opening for rants against the government, liberals and intellectuals. Contrast this with firearm culture. For once I'd like to talk shop about firearms without having to hear, yet again, how we're in danger of losing them, or how Obama is a lying foreign-born socialist-fascist-communist and Islamic sympathizer.

    I appreciate that B.B. has limited his political evangelism to the comments section. Yet for me personally, it's sad that these outbursts arise at all. It's certainly not enough to drive me from the hobby. It won't stop me from reading B.B.'s blog, something I still consider a resource without equal. But it's a disappointment. I understand where Gerry's coming from.

    Bob

  • wayne Says:

    As much fun as the conversation has become… I'd like to change topic and remind us all that…

    Sleigh bells ring….

    are you listening??

    Wacky Wayne
    MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Political evangelism? Outbursts? Spewing? This is loaded rhetoric.

    Disagree?

    You have choices.

    1.Skip a day. Read a book. Play with your kids. Clean the filth in your kitchen.

    2.Compose an rational argument to show BB where he is wrong. I bet he would appreciate a respectful discussion.

    3.Try to shut down intelligent discussion with fake hurt feelings and browbeating those who differ from your beliefs.

    4.Alternatively you could quote a bunch of cliches and indignantly give up the blog/boycott PA.

    Never fear Josh and Tom. Those with integrity won't desert you, even if we disagree on something. Me and a couple of the other addicts can keep you afloat for quite a while. And some poor souls buy from PA without ever reading the blog!

    In the spirit of the holidays I wish peace and love to all, even to those who would smote me for having the audacity to disagree.

  • wayne Says:

    Gerry,

    Oh Hell… I have to jump in..

    I do get your point, it could be risky for B.B. to expose himself in this case… but…

    The important factor is the quality of product. That's the point Cowboy Star Dad is making.

    In this case the quality of Toms' blogging is so high, I doubt he will loose very many readers.. more likely…. more will join in, than will leave… inspired by his honesty and risk taking…

    This forum is by far the most civil and open minded out there!

    That is totally due to Tom and Edith. They set the tone and have made this a great place to learn… and share knowledge and opinions…. without abuse tolerated… that's a very good thing!

    I for one am darn thankful they are here doing it.. and I don't think they do it for the money. They live very modestly!

    Wacky Wayne MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • Anonymous Says:

    What is the absolute most accurate springer with 15 ft lbs or more?

  • kevin Says:

    Anonymous,

    15 ft lbs at the muzzle?

    Most accurate at what distance?

    kevin

  • /Dave Says:

    don't get me started…. OK, I'm already started.

    If BB is a wishy-washy, spineless, try to please everyone, politically correct, "I can't say what's on my mind for fear of offending one of my customers" type of person. Then he has offended me and many others like me. And we are customers too…

    Sounds kinda like the other end of the stick, eh?

    /Dave

  • Alan Says:

    I for one would like to go back to CSD's question that kicked off this whole debate and address it – should we be worried about potential threats to CO2 availability for our hobby?

    I believe that while nothing has happened yet, we need to be prepared to react because the threat could materialize. Whether or not any of us believe (or can prove) that global warming is real or not, there are many in the world that want to take actions against it, even if the actions are merely symbolic in nature.

    Containers of CO2 that are vented into the atmosphere in their use by ordinary people would be easy and powerful symbols for such people to go after. Our hobby and industry would need to be prepared to ward off the attack, and I think this would best be done by broadening the scope to include the real "power users" of CO2 that is readily vented into the atmosphere by use of "ordinary people" – the soft drink / carbonated beverage industry and all that consume their products. The reality is that beverage use of CO2 results in vastly more release of the gas into the atmosphere than all the airgunning and paintballing in the nation combined. I doubt the beverage industry would take such regulation without a fight, and people would be less likely to support such limitations if it directly affected them through their beverage choices. There are many other things that we could do too.

    By the way, even though I directly addressed the question, I doubt that you can tell how I feel about global warming from my answer :)

    Alan

  • Anonymous Says:

    As a new customer, I find it interesting that upon clicking the "Blog" subject directly from the PyramydAir site, in hopes of finding information about my "newly discovered" hobby, that there are individuals with the audacity to risk Josh Ungier's business revenue non-chalantly as if they have a stake in the matter. If this is Josh's vision, it is his business, and so be it.
    I see the same 5 or 10 bloggers here daily,…talk about a vacuum. Things always look the same to the majority of those in a vacuum,…but this is an airgun business that reaches out past the United States, and is a window for others to peer through.
    A business doesn't feel the 5% or 10%, or maybe even 15% of the business it loses to alienating customers,…but most businesses attempt to increase revenue yearly. The moment it stops trying to do that, it is no longer a business. Anyone noticing the direction the surveys on the main page take, the promotions, etc., can see PA is addressing their marketing strategy,…not in an effort to lose customers though.
    Who am I? I am nobody,…but maybe a PA employee,…maybe someone with a stake in the company,…or maybe just a "new customer". I may miss PurcHawk if he turns away from PA…

  • Anonymous Says:

    This Blog serves PyramydAir.

    PyramydAir does not serve this Blog

  • JTinAL Says:

    WOW!
    Guess I'm not the only one who let's their
    emotions get away sometimes.
    Some of you already know my opinions on
    these topics, so I wont bore you with
    repeats.
    BB definitely doesn't need me to defend
    him or his beliefs but I will say that
    I'm willing to stand beside him.

    What I'd really like to see here is the
    owner of PA's views on the subjects of
    PC and being able to voice your
    personal beliefs and opinions in public
    I'm sure he can enlighten us with a
    perspective that some of us can't even
    imagine.

    Kevin
    Just have to say AMEN Preach Brother.
    too easy to agree with you.

    To all my friends I haven't actually
    met here yet,
    Hope you enjoy the holidays no matter how you celebrate.

    JTinAL

  • Frank B Says:

    BB,I have great respect for your writing style,for what you've accompplished,and for being good enough to share you're considerable knowledge with Me.I have learned much about the hobby and that won't go away.It will stay with me no matter what your favorite color is,or who you vote for.I greatly prefer you and Pyramyd to a Vending Machine!!Sorry about that auction item,I admire the reaction.Better luck next time!

  • Mr B. Says:

    Wayne,

    In the moon snow is glistening,

    Who is listening?

    Mr B.

  • Frank B Says:

    "In the meadow,You can build a snowman….

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    We can pretend he is Parson…oops…member of clergy in individual's faith system, if any…Brown:).

  • Gopher Says:

    that one anonymous blogger was right. in the recent past, same handful of bloggers daily as if they own the place or the business. not much new blood, and no fear of losing someone who is not the normal 5 or 10. seems like very sound judgement. good luck!!!

  • Anonymous Says:

    Kevin:
    yes at the muzzle.
    And say 50 yards

  • FRED Says:

    I have a couple of things to address -

    First, Frank B. Sold. I'll contact you off-blog.

    Second – I have another political point to raise. The local pennysaver called me this afternoon to advise that they can't take my ad. They don't accept ads for guns or rifles. I've emailed them back and said that's fine, I wasn't advertising for a gun or rifle but an air rifle or BB rifle. The Federal Government and the BATF do not classify these as firearms.

    I'll let the Blog know if I get any response and I may post their e-mail address here so you folks can let them know what you think of their restriction against my freedom of speech.

    Finally, BB, you must have jinxed me somehow. My fishing line has been caught on a rock.

    Fred

  • Anonymous Says:

    Slinging Lead – I didn't attribute those quotes to anyone because I made them up, but I can tell by your little rant you got my point. And just in case you didn't…Fox News is a fear mongering republican trash rag. They provide so little unbiased reporting of current events that I can't believe they even have the audacity to call it Fox News, they should call it Fox BS That We Drum Up To Scare You.

    But, I'm glad you like it, that's your right(for now). That (for now) from your earlier post sounded a touch Fox News-ish. Hang in there brother, it's not as bad as Glen says.

    -Aaron

    -Aaron

  • kevin Says:

    Gopher,

    I've witnessed many airgunners visiting this site. Some just need one question answered, some stick around and share their progress airgunning and some become daily bloggers.

    I've never gotten the impression that any one or group of bloggers acted "as if they own the place or the business."

    What I have seen repeatedly is the unselfish sharing of airgun experiences and fixes by many of the regular bloggers. I also know that many are loyal to Pyramyd Air when they spend their airgun dollars and their advice to new airgunners result in more sales for Pyramyd Air.

    I hope you will share some of your airgun experiences.

    kevin

  • Frank B Says:

    Gopher,do you want us all to go away?You are as welcome here as everyone else!

  • Anonymous Says:

    Fred – I don't think Craigslist allows ads for guns either, and it wouldn't surprise me if they lump airguns in with pb's. A gun is a gun in the eyes of their publication, regardless of what the BATF says. I don't think they are restricting your freedom of speech at all, what they are restriciting, and I would think they have every right to do so, is the content of their publication.

    For what it's worth

    -Aaron

  • kevin Says:

    Anonymous,

    Re: Most accurate springer at 50 yards with 15 fpe at muzzle

    The most accurate springer at 50 yards with at least 15 fpe at the muzzle I've owned was an RWS 54 in .22 cal. Based on my experience I would encourage you to soft tune an RWS 54. Ed Kryznowek is a guru at doing this.

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    its not "your" place to welcome or deny gopher or anyone else.

  • Frank B Says:

    Fred,Glad the IZH 46m non-firearm has found a good owner.It wasn't really needing to be sold,but you sounded as if Santa needed to hook you up…and no way were you gonna get my P1!!! Ps.Thats why fishing and catching are so far apart in Websters dictionary

  • Frank B Says:

    Stating what I know to be true isn't the same as granting anything…How many names do you go by?

  • derrick38 Says:

    Hey, I don't want PurcHawk to leave. He's a shooter and we need him. Just like we need each and every one else here to just to have anything to even talk about. Stick around, man! OK to disagree. I can't even summon the energy most days to read the airsoft posts but I know some guys absolutely love them. I still come back and read the blog. It's a great big world.

    As far as this being a vacuum? We've got a few pretty hardcore field target shooters, several 10-meter shooters guys, camera fanatics, rocket scientists, statisticians, plinkers, hunters, target shooters, research librarians, engineers, National Match pistol shooters… I was just talking to a shooter from Brazil and another from Greece about modifying airguns that we each owned… Never mind the hundred years plus of airguns the group here owns and can provide help with. Like that big world, it's a big vacuum.

    Stick around everybody. There's good stuff here for all of us.

    Derrick

  • Herb Says:

    Oddly I generally learn more having a discussion with someone who disagrees with me than someone who agrees with me.

    Herb

  • Volvo Says:

    Looks like I’m late to the party again.

    First and foremost, I wish Twotalon well.

    Those with various agendas someday may realize what is actually important. A few of you may recall my daughter was diagnosed with an illness earlier this year. After some skilled doctor’s attention and $115,000 in medical expenses she is doing much better. Such an experience helps put petty concerns in proper perspective.

    B.B.’s opinions.

    Well, that is why we stop here. I may not always agree 100% with his thoughts on airguns, but I am certainly interested in his educated findings. As far as off topic subjects, if he believes the world is flat, that’s fine – he is entitled to. Just as if he is of a different faith than me that to will not deter me from my next PA purchase.

    Why would he make non-airgun related statements here? My guess is that after answering the same questions a thousand times over, when someone brings up a topic outside of “which airgun will…,” he wants to express just a little more of himself. I would suppose this feeling doubles if it is something he feels passionate about. Maybe I’m wrong, but if so it’s still my opinion.

    I don’t recall any issues when Mr. Unger shared his life’s experiences on this blog before. If you truly just need info on airguns, use the automated features on PA’s web site or call them with your questions.

    Tom,
    What the heck rifle were you after?

    CowBoyStar Dad,
    My luck this year has left much to be desired. I just ordered two CO2 rifles, a Benjamin 392T and a Crosman 1077W. Both are old new stock I thought were great finds. Guess I’ll stock pile CO2 and high capacity magazines now.

    Global warming,
    I’m all for it. We are looking at another cold winter like The Michael Stanley Band sang about. Can’t wait until we can get ocean front lots in Ohio.

    Gerry,
    (This space left blank intentionally)

    The gang,
    Kevin, Frank B, Bg Farmer, Wayne, Aaron, Derrick38, Matt61, David aka Jane, Herb, Mr. B., JTinAL, Alan, Dave, Slinging lead, Rich, CowBoyStar Dad, Al in CT, Jim in PGH I’m never tired of hearing from you or anyone else I missed. Also I think we are all happy when new blood shows up, as clearly we practically fall all over ourselves to help a newcomer like Ryan.

    Every now and then I’ll tell a customer, “We may not be the builder for you.” I think this is true in any venue. You can’t be all things to everyone. Plus I love that look on their face as you broom them…

  • Buggy Says:

    Oh great, the LAST place where I want to read about politics is on an airgun blog.

    PyramidAir has lost a customer.

  • pz Says:

    Some airgunners are not rightwingers. I'm a Democrat, voted for President Clinton, worked in his Administration, voted for President Obama who claims a healthy attitude on the second amendment. Me, I served 10 years as an ordnance officer in the Navy Reserve, and taught physics at a Louisiana public university on a bayou by the Mississippi for 13 years. I vote with those who would toughen identity checks and gather useful info to enforce gun laws.

    I shoot 10m air rifle and pistol, and am getting pretty good. No desire to hunt varmint or to take down sparrows who aren't bothering my lawn. I live in a county where discharge out of doors is illegal — includes BB guns and kids bows and arrows, and I kinda like the idea.

    Tom Gaylord knows a lot about air guns; that's why I read his blog. I'm a physicist, and I know a lot about things like climate change. And despite the flap about one British University's putting their dirty linen on the line, the overwhelming majority of the evidence I can read and calculate says that it is not junk science, altho' it has been hyped by various distinguished scientists and/or Nobel Prize winners. Get used to it; we, are changing the climate. Despite the trickery coming from a couple of labs.

    If this blog strays back to politics, and starts impugning my positions with ad hominem remarks, Pyramid Air will lose one of its newest customers. Hope not.

  • CJr Says:

    Soon it will be a world where everyone is allowed to inhale but no one will be allowed to exhale.

    -Chuck

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    JTinAL ,

    I think I know what Josh Ungier's opinion of PC is, and you can't print those words here, because families read this blog together. Josh had a tough early life in Russia and Poland before coming to the U.S. Like all immigrants, including my wife, who came from Nazi Germany by way of China, Josh values the freedom this country offers, and he is very open about it. Josh is one of those super-patriots you read about.

    In case none of this makes any sense, I'm saying Josh Ungier does not subscribe to politically correct views in any way, shape or fashion. He has been in places where you cannot express an opinion, and he knows the worth of this country.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Fred,

    I'm sorry! Apparently, December 16, 2009, was a bad day to be associated with me in any way!

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Volvo,

    I was stalking a BSA Airsporter.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Most powerful springer,

    I second Kevin's recommendation of the RWS 54. I'm unfamiliar with the soft tune he mentioned, but just the name sounds right to me.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    An organization representing the drycleaning industry announced some time ago that they've been searching for ways to clean clothes without dangerous chemicals. They discovered that one of the best & greenest cleaners was liquid CO2. When I first heard this announcement, I recall laughing because I had just read in the paper that CO2 was destroying the planet. Green isn't green for everyone. It depends on your perspective. Click here to read more about the green use of CO2 in drycleaning and why they think it might save their bacon.

    Edith

  • Anonymous Says:

    This is absolutely the last thing I'll say on this subject…I promise.
    I've noticed here (and have actually noticed the last few years) that right leaning people tend to disagree with their opposites…maybe even shaking their heads thinking to themselves 'how can you be so wrong', but tend to say things like 'I think you're wrong but I'll defend to the death your right to be wrong'…
    whereas when the roles are reversed the left leaning folk seem to respond with 'I'm taking my ball home and never playing with you again'…
    Just an observation.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Aaron

    I see you went with choice #3.

    Your feelings about Fox News were obvious from the earlier post. Restating the same in nastier terms does not really advance your point. Try giving specific examples or actual quotes, not made up ones.

    You appear to have a strong distaste for republicans. I disagree with, but respect the views of those on the other side of the political spectrum –who happen to be Democrats most of the time.

    And everyone, lets keep the tone civil. If you feel the temptation to write something nasty, push propaganda or insult, go with choice #1.

  • Anonymous Says:

    My observation is that "left leaning folks" have the intelligence to readily recognize the futility and amount of energy wasted that could be channeled into other avenues. Moving away, and not letting the flip-side waste any more of their time and effort.

  • Anonymous Says:

    yep"left leaning folks"
    If they can't throw someone else money
    at a problem they run away from it.

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