by B.B. Pelletier
Before we begin I want to announce a new article on the Pyramyd AIR website, plus the March podcast is up (including a link to download an mp3).
Today, we’ll look at the carbine’s accuracy. As I reported last time, I’ve never tested this carbine before, so I’m finding out all of this at the same time you are. The Crosman M1 Carbine I tested for The Airgun Letter was a wooden-stocked gun I owned long ago. It was less powerful than this one, and I hope less accurate, to boot!
But that turned out not to be the case. While it’s more powerful, the accuracy of this gun is just about the same as the older one. There was, however, one BB that out-shot the others in this test. Before we get to that, though, how about a report on the shootability of the gun?
Trigger
This gun has a single-stage trigger, and all the guns I’ve shot felt the same. The trigger releases crisply after a moderate pull, but the thin blade does make it feel heavier than the 4 lbs. that it is. Sometimes, Crosman triggers need shims on either side of the trigger blade to cut down on wobble, but this one doesn’t.
Firing
The gun fires with a quiet pulse. It’s almost silent outdoors. The impact of the BB is much louder than the firing noise.
Sights
Crosman copied the later carbine sights that are fully adjustable, and the BB gun sights are, as well. The aperture hole is too large for precision. If you want better results, it would be the place to begin.
Let’s move on to the accuracy test and learn which BB is the most accurate.
Crosman Copperheads
Well, it wasn’t Crosman Copperheads! They went all over the place, as I thought they might, from the results of the velocity test. I remember measuring them a while back and found them to be the smallest of the popular BB brands, as well as the most irregular. The average group size in this gun at 20 feet, rested, was 2.625″. Not a bragging group.
Avanti Precision Ground Shot
Avanti Precision Ground Shot was the most uniform BB during the velocity test, and several of you thought it would be the accuracy champ as well. But it didn’t happen. Not only was it not the best BB, it was very consistently not the best BB. That last statement may take some explaining. The Avanti posted group sizes from 1.9″ to 2.75″ at 20 feet, rested. Try though I might, I could not get it to shoot better. If I hadn’t tried the next BB, I would have thought this performance was okay, but it wasn’t, as things turned out.
Daisy Premium Grade BBs
The best BBs in this Crosman M1 Carbine were Daisy Premium Grade BBs. There was no challenge from the other two. The BEST group of Avantis was larger than the WORST group of these BBs. And the best group was an astonishing 0.80″ for five at 20 feet, rested.
I did remember to twist the barrel after cocking, so the sights were always in the same position for every shot. The Crosman M1 Carbine is simply not a precision BB gun–any more than the M1 Carbine is a precision centerfire rifle. Crosman copied that feature, too.
But nobody ever claimed that this was a gun for the International BB Gun Championships. Leave that to the 499. This is a fun gun, pure and simple. It’s a can-roller and a blaster of plastic army men. For that roll, it’s ideally suited.
Hey gang, I response to yesterdays’s comments, I believe it has been said that in the land where guns are illegal to carry, only criminals will be carrying them?
Anyway…B.B.-Maybe you could do a blog about patterning air shotguns? I presume the same rules would apply for other shotguns as well right? That way we all win!!
-Aaron
Been following this crosman m1 carbine thread for a bit now and I have to ask- Is there a reason that Crosman went with different barrel cocking method? Was it the easiest for production? Forgive me me if this has been answered already.
I can’t wait until you review those Makarovs.
Al in CT
Al, the Crosman M1 was a variant of the V350, a ‘plain-jane’ BB gun that already had the barrel-cocking mechanism. They basically just dressed it up.
For authenticity’s sake it works well, Crosman didn’t have to integrate some sort of obtrusive cocking lever into the design of the gun. That’s why BB originally thought it was a CO2 gun – there isn’t the aesthetic compromise that is normally needed when making a BB gun replica of something.
Now, perhaps you’d be curious as to why the V350 had push-barrel cocking? I have no idea!
Aaron,
If there were even one CREDIBLE air shotgun I would get excited, but what’s available now is just a bunch of science experiments. When someone brings out a shotgun that really works like a shotgun, I will do everything to it.
B.B.
Al,
Crosman re-skinned their V350 BB gun to make the M1 Carbine. The V350 cocks by pushing the barrel straight back, so naturally the M1 Carbine does as well.
B.B.
Vince,
How about borrowing B.B.’s Carbine and working your magic with a 499 shot tube? Would it work?? Just a thought.
B.B.,
I have to take umbrage with your comment about how they arn’t very accurate and that tha round isn’t good for too much. My Inland Div Carbine will shoot clover leaves from a sitting position at 50 yards all day long. When Ruger chambered their single action revolver with that round, maybe in the 60’s-I don’t remember, some of the gun scribes said that it was a good combo for game up to deer. Wouldn’t be my first choice though. It’s a great plinker and woods walking fun gun.
Mr. B.,
Cloverleaves at 50 yards! The best I have seen at that distance has been well over 1.5 inches. And the reading I’ve done supports that.
What ammo do you shoot?
B.B.
BB,
Off topic, but something I’ve been wondering for a while. Why is it that the with all the speed wars over .177, why has nobody done the same for .22? The bigger caliber always seems to be a red-headed step child compared to .177. Is there any reason why a spring piston design focused specifically on .22 couldn’t also flirt with the sound barrier?
In the excitement of yesterday’s blog, perhaps my two requests for comments were missed?
Vince, I met a business associate in Atlanta who’s father gave him an RWS back when he was 7. He left it out in the rain back then and now, a more mature 30+, is looking for someone to work on it. From what he said, he needs a new stock and re-finishing (re-bluing). Is this something you’d like to do? If so, I’ll forward him your Yahoo address. (He’s supposed to get back to me today with the model).
For the group – my son would like to get a firearm, a pistol and I’m looking for suggestions. This is his first and I suggested a 22 revolver with interchangeable cylinders so he can also shoot 22 magnums. Does anyone have any other suggestions I can give him?
Calvin,
Spring-piston airguns are not the fastest type, but Gamo already claims 1,300 f.p.s. for their .22 caliber Hunter Extreme. Read tomorrow’s blog!
B.B.
Mr. B, I wouldn’t suggest my digging into someone else’s M1 to adapt a high-precision shot tube.
Unless it was Wayne’s, that is.
Sooooo….. Wayne….. seems like you’re due for a Crosman M1, no???
Fred,
I have two suggestions. The first is a Ruger Mark II, which I own. It;s a wonderful .22 pistol and veryt reliable.
Second is a H&R 999 revolver. No longer made, this is one of the better-kept secret handguns around. Great accuracy and a wonderful design overall.
Look here:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=123741498
B.B.
Frd,
The gun you’re describing sounds like my Ruger Single Six (don’t know if that is the same as the Mark II) I put thousands of rounds through it as a kid. Great fun, more accurate than me.
MCA
BB,
As I remarked the other day, Daisy BB’s work well — what a surprise:). I don’t think I’ve ever gotten that good a group, though.
I’m not that fanatical about pinpoint accuracy in BB guns, anyway, as the probaility of ricochet makes them less suitable for short range indoor practice than a low-powered pellet rifle, at least to my thinking.
I love that M1 and am a bit sad that the series appears to be over.
Fred,
Here’s another vote for the Single Six. I don’t have one but it’s been around for 50 odd years, copies the Colt Single Action Army which is a proven design (with some safety improvements), and has the interchangeable cylinders. I believe it will be my next gun, unless the upcoming Marauder report is truly extraordinary.
B.B., I came across a gun test of the Auto Ordnance carbine which claimed 2+ groups at 100 yards rested with iron sights. Seemed rather incredible but that was the report.
Knife sharpeners, I just received the Lee Valley Tools micrograin sandpaper of 15 microns and 5 microns. The stuff works. I’m still short of a shaving edge, but the knife was leaping through those tomatoes and not recording any resistance whatsoever.
I believe this will be a fight to the finish. Next up is the razor strop with diamond paste and then the set of Japanese water stones. A man should be able to make a blade shaving sharp…. FrankB, we wait for your secrets. 🙂
Matt61
Fred,
I second the H & R. I own an H & R Sportsman double action that shoots .22 LR but not magnums. I'll never sell the gun.
These guns are worth more than what they sell for in my opinion.
kevin
BB/anyone,
What do you know about the longevity of polycarbonate lenses in shooting safety glasses?
In Tom Clancy’s fiction book, PATRIOT GAMES, the IRA is able to shoot through a bullet-proof windshield because the sun over years has degraded the polycarbonate’s effectiveness. Clancy usually puts a lot of truthful research into his works of fiction.
Do polycarbonate shooting glasses suffer the same fate…either through time and/or sun exposure?
In other words, how safe are our older safety glasses?
I have two large containers of steel BBs, both bought two years ago. Many of the Crosman Copperheads have degraded, and have coatings of some sort of oxidation. The Daisy zinc coated BBs however are as pristine as the day I bought them. Since I discovered this, I now prefer the Daisys.
BG_Farmer,
Yes, the series is over unless Vince decided to do something for Wayne. They are talking about modding an M1.
B.B.
Joe,
The degradation of bulletproof glass is pretty well known. I have never heard of a reference to safety glasses, but it does bear investigation. The key would seem to be exposure to sunlight.
B.B.
Fred,
Another vote for the Ruger Single Six. I had one with the Bisley grip frame and it was king. Like all good things, I traded it off. I am an idiot. I have learned my lesson now.
I would also recommend looking at a Ruger Bearcat. It’s .22 lr only, but man, does it look like a beauty.
Al in CT
Is Chuck Hawks a real person? There are about five different websites attributed to this name with tons of articles each on different though related subjects: guns, military history, outdoor activities, motorcycles…. It’s enough work for 20 men.
Matt61
Fred–
Your inquriy implies that your son is thinking of a revolver in .22 cal only.
If that is the case, I recommend a Taurus Model 94 9-shot revolver. They sell for around $240. I have one. The gun is not the best-finished in the world. It never failed me, but the ammo sometimes did. For awhile I shot Bull’s Eye with it.
You didn’t mention the intended use of the gun or how fancy it needs to be.
–Witt
–Witt
Wayne – I just saw your comment about the Winchester 94. I got mine about a month ago and I love it. Fast action, lightweight and accurate enough!! I just ordered a Williams peep sight set for it. Matt was right about the bullets ejecting onto your head, which was pretty funny the way he put it, and I couldn’t imagine trying to scope one, although some people do with an offset mount, which I think would bring about all new parralax issues? But from my understanding this is the perfect gun for a peep sight. I shot mine about a dozen times when I first got it and I got 4-5″ 3 shot groups at about 65-75 yards with the open sights. From what I can tell mine was made sometime in the 70’s, and pre-1964 models are the most desirabled due to quality of manufacture of the internal components. Mine cycles so well I can only imagine how sweet a pre 64would be. Mine is actually a Sears Mod 100 “Ted Williams” edition which I believe would bring down the collector value somewhat, which is okay with me, I bought this thing to shoot!! I think this is a great gun and just about perfect for chasing deer through the Michigan woods with!!
-Aaron
I recently bought a new 1077 “combo” from Pyramid Air (comes with a Centerpoint 4×32 scope). I’ve been working with the rifle experimenting with different pellets from a table/rest at 39 feet in my back yard.It’s my first real air rifle and my first CO2 firearm.The weather had been pretty cold here making it hard to shoot for best groups, and the cold temps are hard on a CO2 anyway as far as getting consistant velocities. The gun had been showing a preference for Crosman Premier wadcutters,Gamo Match wadcutters,and Gamo Master Points too.I had got some pretty good groups like 1/4″ to 3/8″ once in a while, but some would have a flyer. Today the weather was pretty warm, so I set up to shoot. I decided to retry some Beeman Silver Bear pellets for some reason, and today that combination just flat worked! Whereas before I was getting like 1 1/2″ groups, today I was getting some nice 1/4-3/8″ groups.
Could the warmer temps have made the difference?? I had basically given up on this pellet in this gun, but after today, I feel like I should buy more.
Thanks, Jon in Puyallup, Wa. USA
B.B., Off topic Marauder info
It seems that our friends across the pond are screaming that the Marauder is an exact copy of the Theoben E-Type.
Magazines:
http://www.theoben.co.uk/image.php?id=20&type=D
The rifle:
http://www.bron.pl/shopbron/popupPhoto/30576/2
http://www.bron.pl/shopbron/popupPhoto/30576/3
The trigger looks like a very close copy as well as the stock. The air tube is different but the receiver looks really close as well. Did Crosman buy the rights to this rifle or just copy it?
Here is the Theoben Series 4 trigger. The Marauder trigger looks likea very good copy.
http://www.theoben.co.uk/files/Series%204%20Trigger%20Instructions.pdf
Jon,
The warmer weather sped up your gun, which undoubtedly has had an affect on those pellets. It sounds like it’s worth buying more.
B.B.
Marauder,
I have no idea what Crosman did to produce their new rifle. Time will tell.
B.B.
Fred
Your sons first decision will be auto or revolver.Getting both would be more fun!.22 is terrific for learning safety and marksmanship.But I think you said something about defense and this is the least desirable cal. for that in most opinions.personally I prefer.22 over .25 because of the lack of ammo choices.I will 2nd BB's and others choices of the rugers,single six and the mark series are both fine accurate shooters.The H&R is also nice but some have an external safety that I don't care for on a cowboy style gun.If he wants to tinker and build a serious target shooter,I believe the ruger mkII and mkIII are the best supported of the lower priced pistols.
So many toys,So little money:)
Good luck to your son with a great new hobby.
JTinAL
Matt,
I hope we don’t find out its just another pseudonym for Tom Gaylord:)!
B.B.
I have a very good source in the U.K. who states:
The Crosman item is a straight E type copy. No Patent is current
on Theobens E type or Rapid. In fact the magazine patent just expired hence crosman releasing the product now.
I hope the quality & craftsmanship are on par with the original. If it is & the production models shoot like anything close to what Jim Chapman got from his pre-production model it will be a steal @ $500.
The warmer weather certainly makes a big difference. I had been unable to get a decent group with the RWS Hobbys in the cold. Many people had suggested I try these.I just came back into the house after getting some good groups with the Hobbys, and more very nice ones with the Beeman Silver Bears.Amazing the difference a few degrees in temp can make!!
Jon
So, is it just my lot of copperheads which look like they were formed from a too-short piece of wire? They have little craters at both ends. Crosman really slipped up on these.
B.B.,
I've been shooting Remington UMC 110 grain Metal Case rounds. Please don't tell the gun it shouldn't be shooting that good–thanks.:)
Fred,
I've got a Ruger Convertable Single Six, bought in the early 60's that wears a set of ivory grips I had custom carved with a long horned stear's head while I was serving in Vietnam. I truly enjoy shooting it, but don't shoot the .22 Mag rounds all that much. My brother-in-law has the H&R 999 that goes with him whenever he is working on his land. Take you pick both are great guns.
Vince,
I truly like your style. Step up to the plate Wayne and lets see how accurate your Crosman M1 Carbine can be. Besides I'm sure Vince can set it up to work as made or as modifed.
Hi bb I am going to get a air gun one of four I narrowed down they are daisy 901,Benjamin 392and the dual caliber hammerli x2,the m1 carbine.Which 1 is the best in lasting long,not jamming alot.
Jon,
Give your 1077 some warm weather and you’ll see what a fantastic gun it is. The trigger will limit accuracy at some point although it is very accurate.
Marauder, my understanding was that the Marauder was a Discovery with improvements suggested by consumers. The mysteries continue to thicken.
BG_Farmer, yes Tom Gaylord wears many hats. The writing style of Chuck Hawks seems to be consistent, so perhaps it is the work of one person.
Matt61
No jamming,
Out of your choices, the Benjamin 392 or Hammerli x2 are probably your best quality choices. None of those really have a jamming problem. The Benjamin and Hammerli are single shots (you have to load a pellet for every shot). The Daisy looks similar to a Crosman that you load five pellets in a magazine and manually push it to the next position for each shot.
What do you want it for? The 392 takes multiple pumps while the Hammerli requires more technique to shoot since it uses a spring piston powerplant. The Hammerli is more powerful, but the Benjamin is a classic.
.22 multi-shot
Almost forgot: in last sentence:
^roll^role
Hia Fred,
About 15 years ago or so I was shopping for a Colt King Cobra, and wound up finding a used S&W K-22 Masterpiece.
This has been a very enjoyable .22 revolver. The look, feel and accuracy are great. Its built on the K frame which was used for .38's and .357's before the L frame came out. Both frames being smaller then the N frame but larger then the J frame.
The Rugar Single Six is awsome. This is the revolver my dad used, to teach me how to shoot handguns.
Oh and I did get the King Cobra back then. A gift from my wife!
JoeG from Jersey
Thank you one and all. The use, I think my son wants to put his first firearm to, is just shooting – plinking, punching holes in paper. I thought along the lines of a .22 because of (1) price including ammo(2)ease of learning to shoot (minimal recoil) and (3) a revolver to reduce the chances of “I didn’t know it was loaded” incidents. God willing, that will never happen to him or by him.
BB, if you remember my buddy Tom from the Roanoke show, he already weighed in with his choice – either a .40 or .45 Glock. He said he prefers the .45 because the powder is slower burning. I imagine that’s the self-defense weapon of choice, as far as the retired SEAL is concerned.
I like the choice of the Ruger and we’ll see if my son takes my advice.
One last item on the RWS 350, I just put in the new spring guide but I started having resistance when cocking and returning the lever to rest. I pulled the stock off and discovered that when I first disassembled the rifle, I must have bent one of the followers on the cocking lever (it fits inside the compression chamber slot) and that bent follower was scrapping against the spring guide. I straightened out the bent follower and everything seems fine with the world.
Again, thanks for all for weighing in and giving me advice with my son’s first firearm and help on the RWS 350.
B.B.’s article on the Taurus PT 1911 sure brought a lot of firearm shooters to the forefront of this blog.
I know this is primarily an airgun forum but I want to thank all you kindred spirits that are firearm shooters for chiming in. As a firearm guy now spending most of my time shooting pellet guns I somehow feel vindicated. Or at least feel better in knowing I’m not the only crazy one out there. LOL!
kevin
No Jamming,
I believe the X2 is a rehash of the Mendoza 2003, and I think you’d find it a heavy, bulky underperformer. The more powerful Mendoza’s can have problems being consistent, just look at BB’s experiences in past blogs. Mendoza’s seem to get their high velocities from the deliberate introduction of oil into the chamber, which burns and boosts performance – but is rarely the same from one shot to the next.
The dual-caliber feature sounds interesting, but the prospect of having to re-sight the gun whenever you switch barrels does strip away some of its charm. The barrel change mechanism is excellent, but there are other compromises in this design (notably the lack of a breech seal) that limits the gun’s potential.
If you’re willing to spend that sort of money on a gun, there are many far,far better rifles to consider. To add insult to injury, the X2 doesn’t even have the nice Mendoza peep sight that the old model 2003 had…
B.B.
In asking about the Logun S-16, you suggested I wait for the Marauder. I can wait, (it’s still cold here), and the Marauder seems like it will be a fine, but basic, PCP. Jim Chapman tests suggest it will comparable to the Infinity, but not near as powerful, not quite as loud, and perhaps a few more shots per fill.
The Logun struck me as being totally different: Radically different design, quieter, more powerful, with a much higher shot count, (again, mostly based on Chapman).
Do you know if there is anything out, or coming out, that is a bit more “diferentiated” than the Marauder? I think the Marauder will be a fine rifle for someone that doesn’t already own an Infinity. I’d like to find something not so similar to what I already have.
Jane Hansen
Jane Hansen,
Have you looked at the AirForce guns which look “alot” like the Logun S-16? Check them out on PA’s website. With the right mods they can be silent. I like being able to shoot targets in the back yard with the power turned down, but also can crank it up for hunting. Being able to use both HPA and CO2 is great. Since you have that great hunting rifle, maybe the Talon SS might be what you’re looking for. Just a thought from Mr B.
Wos,
There is a a different technique for the springer, as you are well aware, but it’s not rocket science, sorry Ms Jane:), and it isn’t all that difficult to learn the artillary hold and then you’re up and running with either power source.
Kevin
I believe you’ll find that most pellet slingers in this country went through the same sequence of shooting situations.We started out with toys like cap guns,cork pop guns and water pistols.Then bb and pump bb and pellet rifles.After that we moved on to whatever powder burners the hunters and shooters friends and family were using.Moving on from there we found our own tastes and tried everything we could.Finally discovering the specialized and highly accurate pellet guns we all love.Now the convenience quiet(comparatively)and subtlety of this sport and hobby keep us here.Obviously there will be exceptions,like the ones who have never tried firearms but like the “zen” of AG’s.or the closet airgunner in crowded areas who had a friend of a friend of a friend who showed them an air gun that caught their imaginations.
Just rest assured you are not the only cuckoo in this nest,cause it’s a really BIG nest.
JTinAL
Kevin,
I’m just going to say right on JTinAL. Mr B.
Wos
Sounds like you may be prejudiced(spelling?)against pcp,like I am.:)
Try not to forget though that pellet selection power setting proper sighting etc.all have a bearing on accuracy.In pcp,co2,catapult,springers or even stringers(bows)there’s more than just point and shoot.Although there are instinctive shooters out there of all ages who can do well with anything they get their hands on and it’s a pleasure to see them work.
JTinAL
JTinAL,
How true. I feel like I’ve now completed the circle of gun ownership. First the bb gun, then firearms for a lot of years and now back to pellet gun.
In addition to all your reasons (my justifications) for pellet guns, don’t forget cost of ammo.
Mr B.,
Thanks for being in my corner.
Good to know there are quite a few of us nuts out there.
kevin
JT and Mr B.
You really struck a chord with me.
I started out on springers and pumpers then worked my way up into powder. Always had a place for airguns.
With the range, power and accuracy of present day airguns I have been letting my powder burners collect dust.
This is a whole new world for me now.
twotalon
Thanks vince what about the other rifles the m1,daisy 901,Benjamin 392.
twotalon,
I’ll be right back. Gotta go open the back door and hit a couple of spinners with the Talon SS. That’s a big reason for my enjoyment with this WONDERFUL WORLD of AIRGUNS. Life is great. Mr B.
word verfication “dotsfun” couldn’t be more apropos. Left me with a wonderful grinn.
Anonymous,
The 392 is a fine shooting classic gun. Shoots very well. You can vary the power depending on what and where you’re shooting. Mine on 3 pumps doesn’t bother the neighbors. Run it up to eight and look out crows or squirrels at 25-30 yards. I cann’t speak to the other two guns. Mr B.
Kevin,MrB,Twotalon and all
Continuing on from a different angle
I believe we should really feel for the unfortunates who have never experienced our love and dedication to the shooting arena.I know that in some family’s and cultures shooting anything for any reason is taboo.
That’s why I like to introduce everyone I can to shooting.Even though sometimes the cost is high for me personally.I’ve been laughed at ignored insulted even looked at as a criminal.To me it’s all worth it just to get someone involved.
I fully understand if someone doesn’t want to and I respect that choice,BUT I will never understand why people think they have the right to choose for someone else.
Guess that’s why certain comments sometimes set me off.
Just a point of view from another cuckoo.
JTinAL
ha ha word veri. is SANINGS
Read the reviews of the Daisy 901 at Pyramid Air.com. Owners seem to really like them.
jon
RE: Marauder Report
Seems like Crosman doesn’t have their act together. BB promises not to review until the Marauder until later, but then Crosman posts a link to Jim Chapman’s review on their website.
https://www.crosman.com/blogs/croswords/?p=81
Herb
Mr. B, JTinAL,
I wanted to thank you for treating Wos with respect on this forum/blog. I cannot tell you what a breathe of fresh air it is to see people treat him other than as someone evil whose opinions could somehow cause us harm.
Joe B.,
Thank you and you’re welcome.
Vince & All,
I don't have a M 1 carbine.. I just offered to buy it when Ian was asking.. I think he is keeping his, and I'm glad for him..
I do have a junker v350 that I'll send to Vince in the next batch.. And I'll watch for one..
Wos,
Your right, real men shoot springers.. that's why I sold all mine over 750fps.. ( and that was a few!).. I can't be accurate with them..
So I'm a PCP whimp.. I like to hit what I'm aiming at.. at least sometimes!!
Wacky Wayne
I am going to buy a Chrony…
but what model? do I need the expensive lights? or can I devise a cheaper overhead lighting system with Home Depot Materials?
I am not an airgun reviewer or professional shooter…yet. I want to spend as little as I can but as much as I need to…
Yes, I got the bug. Geez! thanks…;-)
JoeB and all
apologizing wont erase my bad manners on that series of posts and I wont try to make excuses.
I will say that I don’t like myself very much for reacting that way and I will be doing better. Sometimes I forget myself and lose sight of how I was raised. everyone’s opinion is valid regardless of how it’s stated and I forgot the golden rule:If you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing!
My thanks to everyone here who respects others, and remembers the basic goodness and kindness that we were taught.I hope that younger generations, who may not have the advantages growing up that most of us had, can learn from good examples like you.Thanks to Tom and Edith this is the best blog I’ve found for great people and good info on a favorite subject,that’s why I keep coming back.I’m gonna sleep on it for awhile,so good night and peace to you all.
JTinAL
Fred,
Your criteria for a .22 pistol are ones that I have turned over myself and found as reasons for sticking with airguns. They are much cheaper, safer, and the skills developed by them will translate rapidly to much higher calibers than .22.
On the subject of revolvers, I believe I have identified the S&W 28 in .357 as the classic policeman's revolver. Any opinions?
Jane, here's a new take on the Marauder. Ordinary? I recall you not liking the Air Force rifles which by appearance, as mentioned, are very similar to the Logun. And I seem to remember reviews that compare the Logun unfavorably with the Air Force rifles. I don't know of any other good bets in that price range except by going up a step to the Air Arms rifles. And then a few hundred more will get you the Theoben and Daystate rifles which are supposed to be the best, short of the USFT and the Feinwerkbau target rifles. It will be interesting to see what you pick. I myself will be taking a very hard look at the Marauder's accuracy and (related) trigger. If this is anything like a Discovery with an improved trigger, it will be quite out of the ordinary for me.
Matt61
Tunnel Enginner,
Your handle is too long. Mind if I call you Ditch Digger? That could then be shortened to DD. : )
I use the Chrony Alpha for this blog. Although I own and use an Oehler too, the Chrony is fine for what I do here.
I shine a 500-watt light at the ceiling and make sure the flourescents are turned off. A work light will work if the ceiling is white.
B.B.
Jane,
The Marauder is about as much like the Infinity as a Porsche resembles a Ford F-150. They both have four wheel and an engine, and the similarity ends there.
B.B.
tunnel engineer,
Re: Chrony info
I asked the same question just a short time ago. Got a lot of good answers including one from B.B.
Nowadays all chronographs have similar accuracy. The oehler brand is the gold standard. B.B.’s analogy was that the oehler was the “rolex” but they rest keep good time too. What you plan to do with the chrony and where you plan to use it will help you make your decisions.
If you plan to shoot indoors the chrony will probably work if you shine a bright incandescent/halogen light off a white ceiling with all the flourescent lights turned off. If that’s not possible buy a light kit (the parts to make one cost about as much as the kit with the two 40 watt frosted incandescent bulbs being the key). If you plan on using your chrony just to occasionally shoot your springers over to make sure they’re still up to spec you don’t need a printer. If you plan on shooting long (100 shots or more) shot strings over your chrony to analyze the power curve/performance of your pcp then get a printer. Buying a printer for the long shot strings was the best single piece of chrony advice I got from B.B.
kevin
TE,
I also use a Chrony A. It helped me diagnose a problem with my RWS 350. The key to using them indoors for me was use of one of those bright halogen work lights pointing either at the ceiling or as many suggested and I use, at the sun shades the Chrony comes with.
By the way, last night I clocked 861 fps with the repaired RWS (Crosman 10.5 gr 177 cal) and then – the Chrony died! No, I didn’t shoot it. It reads “error 1” which indicates a problem with the near photocell. This I won’t attempt to repair- I’ll just call Chrony and ship it back.
B.B,
In response to your comment about the “credible air shotgun”, are you referring to mass-produced only?
Joe Bontrager has his 20 gauge (I have one on back order over a year now) and it looks very promising; MAYBE even for clays (fingers crossed but not believing lol).
I know that you have reviewed a number of air/CO2 shotguns (I have a bunch of them myself) and I do agree with you in the fact that they are extremely limited.
To my mind, the real measure of a credible air shotgun is its ability to blast hand-tossed clays or hit a bird on the wing at 30 yards.
What would you consider credible in an air shotgun from your perspective?
On another note, I have a bud of recent acquaintance; he has the Logun S16 as do I. His gun is spewing air from inside the trigger (the workings) inside the gun when he attaches the bottle. Have you ever torn one down or have advice as to what he should look for? We are expecting it is an o-ring problem, but are a bit leery to tear it down because of the high degree of internal complexity we are certain we will find within.
My buddy is an air-gun repair guy part time, but hasn’t worked on PCP’s, only springers to this juncture.
As always, thanks for this great column and your solid advice.
All the best,
Dan (Was Dan in Iraq but Dan in WA now lol)
Dan in WA,
You SHOULD be laughing out loud! After kissing the ground. Are you are Ft. Lewis?
My standard for a credible air shotgun will be one that can shoot trap and skeet and keep up with a cartridge gun. Tough standard, but I think it’s possible.
I haven’t torn an S16 down, but all guns leak when fired. You can feel it on some like the AirForce rifles, but others with wood stocks hide the blast.
B.B.
I am at Fort Lewis indeed. I have been here almost 4 years now, minus deployment time, of course.
And no ground kissing, although I did kiss my li’l honey about a million times. 🙂
As for your credible standard; we each have one. 🙂 Yours is considerably different from mine, thanks for sharing!
Back to my friend’s gun; the problem isn’t during firing, it is when the bottle is screwed onto the receiver. The air dumps instantly into the mechanism of the trigger and empties the 400cc bottle in short order.
I will ask on the Yellow and see if we can drum up some help there. 🙂 I know that airgun repair isn’t one of your official duties, of course; just wanted to bounce the problem off you since you have such a varied knowledge base of all things airgun.
Thanks, BB.
-Dan
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