Air Venturi Avenger – Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

Well, I learned quite a lot in this accuracy test. In fact, I’m not going to tune the Air Venturi US Avenger 1100 because it doesn’t require it. I found out that the tendency to detonate goes away after about 200 shots. But I’m getting ahead of myself.

The day was calm and still with a slight drizzle. The range to the target was 25 yards. I selected a Leapers 3-9×40 mil-dot with illuminated reticle and mounted it in a 1-piece, 4-screw RWS Lockdown scope mount. Because the Avenger has no scope stop holes to mate with the mount, I pounded the two stop pins flush with the base and butted the rear of the mount against the plastic end cap on the rifle.

It took three shots to zero the rifle at 10 feet, and I was on paper at 25 yards with the first shot after that.

Remember, I’m now shooting 20-shot groups with spring rifles. If I knew this was a hyper-accurate rifle like a TX, I would have shot at 35 yards, but I selected 25 for this one, and it seemed to suit the situation.

I used an artillery hold with the triggerguard bearing firmly against the heel of my palm. The rifle felt very muzzle-heavy, which works for a lot of breakbarrels. Also, I didn’t sight-in to hit the aimpoint. With 20 shots in the string, the aimpoint would be eliminated quickly and accuracy would start to suffer. On the other hand, you would want to sight to the point of aim, because you’re trying to hit the target every time–not just shoot groups.

RWS Supermags
The 9.3-grain RWS Supermag wadcutter pellet was first. In the beginning, the pellets were landing in close proximity, but every 5 or 6 shots a detonation blew the pellet wide of the group. After the shooting ended, I had no reference for comparison and moved to the next pellet right away.


Most of the 20 Supermags went into about a 1.6-inch group. The widest shots were all from detonations.

Beeman Kodiak Double Gold
Beeman Kodiak Double Gold pellets were next. One of our readers recommended Kodiaks, and I had these Double Golds sitting here awaiting a test, so it just seemed to work out.


Beeman Kodiak Double Gold pellets were fairly consistent. Three detonations flew wide, but most of the other 17 pellets wanted to group tight. The whole group measures 1.373 inches, including the flyers.

Gamo Match
At 7.7 grains, Gamo Match pellets were definitely the lightest pellets in this test. The first shot was a detonation that landed low, but after that there were only two more detonations. The rifle is beginning to break in and settle down, as so many owners have said it would.


What an eye-opener Gamo Match pellets were! The three wide shots to the left are the only detonations. All the other pellets are in that group. This is the best performance of the test. It measures 1.07 inches for 17 shots.

In retrospect, I can see that RWS Supermags are not a good pellet in this rifle. Kodiaks bear further testing, as do most other premium pellets. With the tendency to detonate going away, the Avenger 1100 is breaking it to a nice spring rifle. You have to use good shooting technique to get the best results, but that trigger will help out a lot.

There’s no need for me to tune this rifle, as it’s breaking in nicely. My advice to prospective buyers is to run a tin of pellets through the gun before expecting the best performance from it. While not quite in the same league as the RWS 34, the Avenger has a better trigger and seems to be very accurate. At the price point, it seems to be a good buy.

I like the 20-shot groups so far. Though this is only the first test, 20 shots show a truer picture of the rifle’s performance than five would. I’m going to keep on doing it.

92 Responses to “Air Venturi Avenger – Part 3”

  • Brody Says:

    Nice report b.b.,
    i really like the 20 shot group. Now your going to have to shoot 20 shot groups with the most accurate rifles youve tested. Also i was going to ask what would you reccomned as the best hunting airgun for under 650 dollars? I need a higher power gun, but i dont really want a pcp. I was thinking either tx200 or an R1.
    Brody

  • derrick38 Says:

    Brody,

    Keep in mind that either of those guns are going to be over 10 pounds once scoped. They’re HEAVY guns to carry. I’ve owned both in .22 cal and preferred the R1 in the field. I find it’s easier for me to cock and load a break barrel than an underlever with a sliding compression chamber. The R1 also makes less noise when cocked–though there is a way to keep the TX200 quiet by holding the anti-beartrap latch.

    The TX is pretty much a tuned gun out of the box. The R1 needs some love to be as smooth. I typically tune all the spring guns I own almost as soon as I get them home so I can’t say how the R1 will break in on it’s own and compare to a TX.
    The TX is definitely less sensitive to the way it’s held. So, if you shoot from various positions ( offhand, sitting, kneeling, from a rest, etc…) you’ll see less POI change. Depending on how you hunt, this could be a big factor.

    Both guns have relatively stiff cocking and need some muscle. Remember that longer barrels (or cocking levers on the TX) equate to more cocking leverage.

    The trigger is better in the TX. It’s not light years better, but it’s noticeable.

    I still prefer my current R1 as a field gun. The barrel cocking and ease of loading the exposed breech make it an easy choice for me. I knocked the weight back slightly with a Leapers 6X bug buster.

    My favorite woods gun of all time was my old R1 in .25 cal with a Tasco RedDot. No magnification, but the huge field of view combined with the small dot allowed for very fast and accurate shot placement out to about 35 yards.

    Have you handled either gun yet? That’ll tell you lots.

  • CJr Says:

    Ah…caught up on my reading.

    Well, what did I learn today? BB is dedicated enough to shoot in the rain, is an expert at zeroing in a rifle, uses his non-shooting hand on the trigger guard and not on the forearm of the stock for the artillery hold. Hmmm….will this work for me?

    What did I learn yesterday? Another reason to keep the oil changed regularly in my car.

    -Chuck

  • kevin Says:

    Chuck,

    A hold that has the trigger guard resting in the open palm of your support hand may work. I had an R9 that would only shoot if your open palm was resting just in front of the trigger guard. Ackward to balance the rifle but a hold any further than right in front of the trigger guard and the gun wouldn’t group. Everything else, i.e., trigger hand, cheek, shouldering the gun, had to be extremely light as well. That gun wasn’t tuned and was very picky.

    Wouldn’t hurt to try your support hand many places.

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    Nice shooting. 20 shot groups with a breakbarrel from a bench sounds like a lot of work. Time for more fun. How about reference 20 shot groups for all of the standards, especially the RWS 34 and the TX200. That will shed light on the results from other guns. I’m taking my B30 to the range this weekend, but it sounds like the Avenger will give it tough competition.

    I’ve never tried any particular hold with any of my guns. Perhaps this is a new field to be explored.

    Matt61

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    I’m glad the Avenger is shaping up. Perhaps what you should do is ship the test guns to some of us to put a tin or two of pellets through before you begin your formal testing. Its certain that you don’t have time to break in every rifle, and its also certain that not many of them shoot as well out of the box as they do after a few hundred pellets.

    Also, I like the 20 pellet tests.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    Ha ha, BG_Farmer has a great idea. PA could have a special break-in service for the Avenger and other guns. For a small fee to remunerate designated testers, guns could be shipped to blog members to run a tin of pellets through them.

    You’ve got me convinced about the M-16 much as I would like to believe otherwise about our longest-serving battle rifle. Actually, I differ a little bit on the twist rate. The original slow twist of 1:16 or whatever it was coupled with the very high velocity made the bullets more unstable and damaging which is the only way to justify such a low caliber. With the accurizations of the A2 model, driven by the Marine Corps I believe, which used a higher twist-rate and heavier bullet, the rifle became a regular old .22 which is not sufficiently lethal.

    I don’t know about the battlefield accuracy of the current model, but the inherent design seems capable of modification to pretty impressive accuracy on the target range. My information is that either the M-16 or its high-powered derivatives like the SR-25 now dominate service rifle and high-power competition and are used by the service competition teams.

    So, the contributions of the M-16 appear to be the ergonomics and returning the notion of aimed, accurate rifle fire to the battlefield which is kind of an ironic departure from the original design. The TUBB 2000 rifle that I’m reading about appears to be the SR-25 ergonomics adapted to a bolt-action.

    The infantry weapons book with its rave reviews of the BAR was quite an eye-opener. It makes me think that there will never be an ideal battle rifle with current technology but an oscillation between greater firepower and light weight. You can never have enough of both, and they are fundamentally opposed to each other.

    Matt61

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin and Chuck,

    Kevin described my hold perfectly. The rifle isn’t balanced on the triggerguard. My off hand is just in front of the guard, with the guard touching the heel of my palm. That may sound like the rifle is balanced on the triggerguard, but if you look at your hand you’ll see how I was holding the gun. On the flat of my hand, with the heel touching the guard.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Matt,

    Because of the work involved, I would have to get a blog out of those reference groups. But I like the idea.

    I may not be the best rifle shot around, but if I try I can at least be consistent. So those reference groups would be a standard against which all my shooting could be compared.

    The argument against reference groups is that I may not be shooting the best pellet for the gun. That will always be true with every gun I test, as well, so maybe it’s a wash.

    I will definitely think about it.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I’m happy that BB seems to be forming a better opinion of the Avenger; I like mine quite a lot, especially with the Mendoza aperture sight. The problem with the aperture sight, as with the open rear sight that comes on the rifle, is that neither will adjust low enough for my style of shooting, and I tend to shoot high.

    I want to get the Mendoza RM-600 as well, even though it is probably the same rifle as the Avenger but with a different stock, annular grooves on the “muzzle brake,” and a squared-off trigger guard–AND it’s more expensive.

    Regarding the buzz about the M-16 rifle: I never shot one, and I don’t like its looks or construction. It was adopted soon after I left the USMC, and it was so flimsy that the weight has continued to climb as it is modified to counter its defects or to “enhance” its performance.

    I qualified at PI with the M-14, carried the M-1 Garand during ITR training, and shot the BAR for familiarization. Later, in Fleet, I was an AR Man and carried the M-14 with bipods and a selector switch. It weighed over 10 pounds with the bipods and a full magazine, so I was thankful that I never had to tote the 24lb BAR. The big advantages of the BAR were that it had a variable rate of fire and had a buffer group in the butt stock. The buffer group permitted the weapon to be fired from the shoulder without the muzzle “riding up,” which the M-14 did when fired on full automatic.

    Regarding one of BB’s earlier blogs, I have been trying to shoot with both eyes open, even with a scope, but I’m having varying results. I tend to see a double image of the target when I have both eyes open, and part of the problem may be that I have cataracts and macular degeneration setting in. However, when shooting with both eyes open works for me, I get excellent groups.

    –Witt

  • mikekauth Says:

    Being new at all of this air gus shooting, I have to ask this. What does detonate mean and why do the different pellets shoot so diferently. Maybe a blog somewhere explains this. When will you be writing more on the Daisy 953?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Matt, Matt, Matt!

    Don’t you DARE buy into Robert MacNamara’s LIE about the twist rate of the early M16. It WAS NOT calculated to do that! {MacNamara had no idea about the twist rate, by the way. He simply forced the early adoption of the rifle without the additional field testing the Army developers wanted}.

    The thing about the bullets tumbling was simply the LIE that the Army made up when they discovered their mistake. The first twist rate was 1:12, by the way, and any varmint hunter could have told them it was wrong for what they wanted. But when has the Army ever listened to common sense? My Swedish Mauser that was made in 1943 has a 1:7.5″ twist, and for a larger bullet that doesn’t need to be spun as fast. Twist rates are not difficult to calculate–the Army simply made a basic mistake.

    When I qualified with the M16, after qualifying expert with the M14, the range NCO told me to shoot just in front of the 250 and 300-yard pop-up targets, because the rifle wasn’t accurate enough to hit them at that range. A spray of pebbles from the ground in front of them would knock them down, though. I shot expert with his guidance.

    I was out on the range today with my new Garand and sitting next to me was a guy with an AR15-4. He took an hour to fire four shots. The rest of the time he was fiddling with his rifle to get it to feed. I didn’t have a single malfunction with the Garand.

    Yes, the current M16 is a much better rifle, but it still has some large flaws. But nobody asked me.

    B.B.

  • Vince Says:

    Velocity retest?

  • Herb Says:

    All…

    REF: Reference groups & outliers

    The point of reference groups would be to gauge the shooter. The idea would be that given a "good" rifle, where the imprecision of the rifle is minimal, how well can the shooter perform?

    Regardless of the rifle I'd guess that I get at least a flier or two out of twenty shots.

    The idea of using a X-Y measurement would be to discard fliers using some "reasonably" rigorous rejection criteria based on statistics. Shots for which a assignable cause of the deviation can be assigned, can be discard immediately. For example, shots which have a detonation would be discarded. Thus the group size would be for shots without a detonation, which should be smaller than if he detonations were included.

    Herb

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Witt,

    Thanks for your input. I was at the range today and made a conscious effort to keep both eyes open. As a result, I was able to see the crosshairs of a 4-power scope bisect a 2″ bull at 50 yards. I shot a 10-shot group with a new type of .22 rimfire (writing an article for Shotgun News) that rivals the best groups I ever got from a stock 10/22 and a 24-power scope.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Alan,

    A spring-piston gun usually burns some oil as it fires. It does this by compressing the air and oil droplets floating in the compression chamber to the point of ignition.

    We call that dieseling, since it follows the same principles of a Diesel engine.

    A detonation is an explosion, when there is too much fuel in the compression chamber. It sounds like a .22 rimfire cartridge has fired.

    Spring guns are not designed to detonate. Most of them do diesel, however.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    Are you asking me for a velocity retest of the Avenger, now that it has fired so many more shots?

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Brody,

    I wrote a book about the Beeman R1, so you know that I think it’s a wonderful air rifle. And the TX 200 Mark III is also a wonderful airgun.

    I can’t chose a gun for you, Brody, because I don’t know enough about you. For ME, I would choose something with a gas spring costing WAY LESS than $650. But that’s just me.

    The R1 is great, but like Derrick said, they do need to be broken in. I broke mine in while writing the R1 book. My R1 must have close to 20,000 shots on it by now and has lived with a great many tunes. The best was the Mag-80 Laza tune from Ivan Hancock, but I intentionally destroyed that mainspring in the Mainspring Failure Test for the book.

    I have a Vortek gas spring that’s really great for hunting. But the current tune on the gun is easy to cock, and smooth-shooting. It doesn’t even break 16 foot-pounds. What a wimp, but I like it best of all.

    But for you, who can say? Look at an RWS Diana 54 and a TX 200.

    B.B.

  • Brody Says:

    Derrick,
    Thanks. I havent handled either gun, but i wont be able to, so im going to order hoping for the best. I wont be able to buy it for about a month or so, im just trying to decide. I am leaning towards the R1, because i have heard so many positive things about them. Its not that i dont like the TX 200 its just that i think the R1 is a time proven tide and true gun, that has been tested, retested, tuned, and retested, and its still a great gun. I dont mind the weight, because the reason i need the magnum power, is to groundhog hunt, and where i hunt, you dont move too much. Thanks again.
    Brody

  • Anonymous Says:

    I am buying a Quest 1000. (no scope) and was wondering other then a tune up (been done I am told), or a new trigger, (unless the mod decreased the 5 pound pull) what else is there to do.

    I know about dieseling and so do not want that.

    Your suggestion on pellets for it, say a wad cutter,(paper target) and a varmint controller?

    A scope for it? IF, I eventually can afford one?

    I am sure you have a post on the next item on my confused list.

    MIl DOT sight (huh), what is it, how to use it.

    Last since it is a springer, what is the best way to hold to fire? The rules for a firearm I was told are different, the breathing etc.

    I have put off buying one since I have read so much conflicting info. And it seems to be the more I read the more it seems NOT to be worth owning due to the endless chatter about the specs and the abilities.

    I am a Ham, and the same type of discussions, seemingly endless, about a particular radio. But eventually you use a few at a friends house then you see the emperical evidence . Then you try to buy wisely.

    will let you know in a day or two if I get the one I am bidding on.

    thanks
    chris

  • Vince Says:

    Yes, BB, I was hoping you’d do a velocity retest of the 1100 now that it seems to have settled down.

    Chris, the Quest can be very unpredictable. I’ve worked on a number few of them, some have been quite good while others have had rough chambers that abraid the piston seals rapidly. The lockup can also be a source of angst. The trigger can be improved with a GRT, but you can gain an improvement in feel (cheaply) by removing the trigger return spring. It gets removed with the GRT anyway.

    That said, a good-running Quest can be a very decent rifle – light, compact, and powerful. And it’s a good one to learn on, if ya wanna tear into it yourself. And Crosman actually has good parts support for it.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    EVERYONE<

    A guy by the name of Chris emailed me about the following:
    ——————————
    Hello Mr. Gaylord. First off let me say I'm a big fan of yours and I read all of your articles so you were the first person to come to my mind when I researched this.

    http://airgunadvice.net/viewtopic.php?t=11456

    So maybe you'll be able to dig a little deeper than I was able to since your a well reputed airgunner. Please keep me posted on anything you find.
    ————————————

    Yes, I do know about the new Nitro Piston guns. I have shot them! And, now that the cloak of silence has been lifted, let me say that I have never fired a smoother gas pistol air rifle.

    I actually played a small role in the development of this new line, though it was very late in the development. Crosman deserves all the credit for this one.

    I can't wait to test one of these for you! I already love them, and I''ve only shot them two times.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Chris,

    Are you the same guy who sent the link to the new Crosman Nitro Piston guns? Because they may be what you are looking for.

    Use domed pellets in a spring gun for best accuracy. Also learn the artillery hold:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/07/artillery-hold.html

    What is a mil dot? Please read this:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/scopes-part1/

    In fact, go here and look at all the articles:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/

    As far as the airgun jargon goes, I try to keep it to a minimum, but you can always ask when you don’t understand something. In fact, with everyone asking my reports tend to stay very tutorial and (I hope) understandable.

    Concerning the type of gun you get–I hope you DON’T get that Quest. Not until we have a chance to show you more that’s available. Not that I want to talk you out of the Quest, but I do want you to know what’s out there.

    We have the world’s best readers on this blog, and I am sure they will help me bring you into airgunning with as little frustration as possible.

    Chris,

    If you live within driving distance of Cleveland, Ohio, Pyramyd Air, the host of this blog, is hosting a huge moving sale on Saturday, May 30. I will be there to meet and talk with everyone. I hope that works for you.

    B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    MikeKauth,

    B.B. answered your questions but the answer is addressed to “Alan”. Don’t know who Alan is but some of your answers are in that post.

    You asked another good question: “why do the different pellets shoot so diferently.” I’m not sure you realize how important a question this is. Many new airgunners give up on airguns (springers especially) because they never try enough different types of pellets in their gun to find the most accurate. I think this combined with putting the gun away or selling the gun before it’s broken in are the primary reasons that some people have the incorrect notion that airguns can’t be accurate.

    Now for the answer to your question….there isn’t an answer. There are a lot of opinions about why different pellets shoot differently but no scientific evidence I’m aware of has answered this age old question. Just accept that there will probably be one pellet (maybe more) that is most accurate in your gun and keep trying different pellets until you find the “one”.

    B.B.’s article today mentions the break-in period that the Air Venturi Avenger is in the midst of. Don’t expect to enjoy your guns optimum performance until after a few thousand shots.

    kevin

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    Okay, I will do another Avenger velocity test.

    B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    Brody,

    You’re asking some great questions and have narrowed your selection to a few great spring guns.

    Now that you’ve mentioned that you intend to use this gun for hunting tough groundhogs I can’t help but ask you a question.

    Why are you avoiding a pcp as an option?

    kevin

  • Christopher Robinson Says:

    Hi B.B. this is Chris. I want to say you make me insanely jealous. You always get to know a lot of secrets and try new rifles before we even know about them. =)

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Mike Kauth,

    Sorry–I’m runnin’ and gunnin’ today.

    Alan,

    Whoever you are, forget what I said.

    Kevin,

    ;)

    Thanks!

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Chris,

    Yes, but I don’t know Winnie the Pooh personally!

    ;)

    B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    Chris,

    I admire your research and understand your trepidation.

    Almost all springers require a learned hold and some are so picky that you spend a lot of time learning the nuances of that particular spring gun.

    There is a search box on the right side of this blog. Search “artillery hold” to learn the fundamentals of a spring gun hold. There are now well over 1,000 articles on this blog by B.B. A great library at your fingertips.

    Please listen to Vince. The Quest 1000 is a crap shoot with odds against you for your first springer. It will probably turn you off to the hobby completely.

    Mil Dots are additional dots located along both reticle lines inside your scope. They allow you additional aim points to compensate for different distances in shooting and windage.

    kevin

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    It’s OK to be a little schizophrenic. You always have someone to talk to.

    Just don’t make a habit out of it.

    Say hi to Alan from me. ;^)

    kevin

  • Christopher Robinson Says:

    Not to get off subject but with Crosman’s new Nitro Piston Technology I feel like I’ve got one year before my large collection of Crosman break-barrels look like turds compared to their new gas ram rifles. Oh and about winnie the pooh you are the millionth person whose told me that =) I’m 32 and I still get called Pooh Bear =/

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Christopher Robinson,

    Well, you did this to yourself!

    EVERYBODY– from now on, Chris shall be known as Pooh Bear! Apparently I struck a nerve!

    To answer your question about what the new Crosman rifles with the Nitro Piston will look like, I only saw one production model about two weeks ago. It’s a digital camo-colored rifle with no sights and a soft-to-the-touch rubberized digital camo stock. I thought it was quite attractive.

    They will come in both .177 and .22 and I shot both. The .22 is nearly silent! Talk about quiet! Only the Marauder is as quiet in the Crosman lineup.
    No doubt they will have other models, but for now I think there is only one.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    OT…Oh my god. I don’t know if I’m just getting old or I’ve gone ‘gun crazy’.
    A client of mine just came by to show me his new car, a Lotus Elise.
    My first thought was that there was not enough space to carry air rifles!
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • Ishaq Says:

    Hey BB Pelletier. I just want to say that the work you do here is amazing. I just wanted to know whether you would take the RWS 34 PANTHER or the GAMO WISPHER X. The Gamo looks better in terms of Aesthethics. Or is there something else that you would have in the same price range?

    Also what is the difference between an RWS 34P and an RWS DIANA 31P.

    Ishaq…

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ishaq.

    The 31P sounds like a typo to me.

    The Whisper is great with a gas spring, but wait until Crosman brings out their new Nitro Piston next month. I think that is what you may want.

    Between a Whisper and a 34P, I would take the 34P.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    Hm, well the theories about the M-16 are growing to quasi-scientific proportions. I thought an extra high velocity and low twist-rate were designed on purpose, but it was all a dead-end as far as I’m concerned. Yes, I’ve noticed the type on the range that likes to fiddle rather than shoot. Let’s hear about your new rimfire when the shroud of secrecy can be removed. I hope it’s a Savage 64.

    On the subject of the reference groups, too late they’re already here. I think of the TX200 as a one inch rifle at 500 yards with a 5 shot group. So, how is one to compare the Avenger with a one inch group at 25 yards with 20 shots (minus fliers)? Just rap out a few groups with the TX200 and the RWS 34 and have fun. This doesn’t have to be the ultimate standard. Herb, I thought of the reference groups as a means to compare guns given a single shooter (B.B.). Hopefully, the 20 shot groups will equalize other factors involved.

    Witt, thanks for your reflections on the M-14. I enjoy every story I read about the M14 making a comeback today.

    Pooh Bear, welcome. Unless you have a specific goal for airgunning, I believe that the RWS 34 is your best first investment in spring guns, and the Avenger of today would be a good cheaper option. Don’t discount your basic springer. Feel the resonance of the shot through your body; enjoy that amusement park ride of the sights until they settle back to the target. It can be an acquired taste, but as satisfying as anything.

    All, on the subject of touching the trigger guard, I’m personally hesistant to do that. However, Jeff Cooper claims that it can be a cure for a bad (heavy) trigger. He claimed that he won a bet in college by hitting a target at a 100 yards with a roommate’s low-quality rimfire. His method was to rest the rifle then pinch the trigger by positioning his thumbe behind the trigger guard.

    Matt61

  • Ishaq Says:

    Bb Pelletier

    Thanks mate, Cant wait for the Crosman because I live in South Africa. We get things 1 later.I will go with the P34.Any pellets you recommend?

    Ishaq

  • Anonymous Says:

    would the Air venturi Avenger 1100 .22 be a good rifle to hunt small game with? I own a .177 gamo and at farther ranges it just doesnt do the jab.

  • kevin Says:

    Dr G.,

    PAGING DR G.

    Based on part 6 of your multi part airsoft series I’m going to order a couple of Crosman Pulse R72 Black guns. If you don’t mind would you give me your advice on several items:

    1-Have you shot biodegradable bb’s in your R72? Good or Bad?

    2-Do I remember you recommending .20 gram bb’s for accuracy?

    Re: Accessories (needed/not needed)

    3-Extra battery?

    4-Extra charger?

    5-Face masks or googles (will the kids wear them?)

    6-Nitro lubricating oil?

    7-Silicone oil spray?

    8-Foregrip?

    9-Laser?

    Greatly appreciate your help.

    kevin

  • DB Says:

    Yep have on several occations dipped my finger in the valve cover or pulled the dip stick to get a littl oil for O-rings, hoses, or rusty bolts. It is a common quick solution for use back yard mechanics.

    Neery thought of using it on a rifle bolt though.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Does anyone know if it is a good idea to lower the power of a spring gun by leaving it cocked for about a week or two? I’m trying to do this to my Beeman R9, I want it to shoot like a beeman R7. Are there any negative things that could happen to my gun if I do this?

    Thank You.

  • JC Says:

    “Remember, I’m now shooting 20-shot groups with spring rifles. If I knew this was a hyper-accurate rifle like a TX, I would have shot at 35 yards, but I selected 25 for this one, and it seemed to suit the situation.”

    So now we have 2 standard shooting distances – one for hyper accurate, one for not so much….

    I think one standard – 20 shot groups at the same distance (say 30 yards) should be it so we have comparability and don’t have people thinking the less capable guns are better…..

    Now you’re going to ask me about the 10 meter guns! OK, maybe classes based on intent.

  • Herb Says:

    Matt,

    RE: Error for gun and shooter

    You are correct.

    The total error can be broken into various contributions such as from the gun, the shooter, and the choice of pellet. Since you can’t make holes in the target without a number of such contributors, the total error is always a composite.

    You can add additional factors such as distance, wind, and so forth to make the situation even more complicated.

    Herb

  • CJr Says:

    Talking about gun jams…
    I have a theory about battle survival. The winner is the side that has the fewest jams. I was amazed how, at the KCR machine gun shoot last April near Louisville, how many guys seemed to spend more time clearing jams on their fully automatic weapons than they did shooting them.

    This year I did shoot an M16, AK-47 with wood stock, AK-47 with “wire” stock, Thompson Sub Machine gun with drum, and a FULLY AUTOMATIC Ruger 10/22 (LOL, what a hoot!)

    The AK-47 had way more recoil than the M16. The wire stock AK-47 was easier to control than the wood stock. The wood stock wanted to climb up to the left while the wire one seemed to press back.

    -Chuck

  • FRED Says:

    Just wanted to advise the blog that I bought my first 10M pistol – I found a used Gamo Compact for $100. I figured this was worth investing in to see if I like 10M shooting. I just chrono’d the gun and it’s avg 360 fps with JSP Match Diablos weighing 7.5gr. It’s slower than advertised but Gamo’s velocity might have been obtained with even lighter pellets (perhaps something like a 6.5 gr Beeman Lazer?). Anyway, I might still get that IZH. No wait, someone posted a P1 on the Yellowforum. Maybe I should save my money and get one of the new Crosman NItros or go back to my original plan of buying the Challenger or…… aghhhh – college education – aghhhhh

  • Brody Says:

    Kevin,
    I am trying to avoid PCP because i dont want the hassle. Theres no place around here to fill a tank, so id be stuck with a pump, and i dont want to be constantly monitoring pressure, and all that. I just like the simplicity of a spring piston. I am going to have to take a look at these new crosmans though. They sound freakin awesome. Thanks again,
    Brody

  • CJr Says:

    Fred,
    I feel your pain! I’m into this stuff and I don’t know how to get out!
    -Chuck

  • CJr Says:

    Brody,
    Get a Talon SS .22 or .177 with CO2 and the 12 oz bottle. Take a whole 500 count tin of pellets with you where ever you go and don’t worry about the pressure until that TIN is empty. If you have the 20oz tank take two tins with you and don’t worry about the pressure until both tins are empty.

  • Brody Says:

    I just looked around yramyd air. bad idea. Now my mind is set on a marauder, and thats final. Dont anyone tell me any different. Im going to save, collect my birthday money, save some more, purchase it a pump, and a good scope a few hundred pellets, and that will be the end. hopefully.
    Brody
    p.s. word verification”guess”

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ishaq,

    Only one pellet for the 34 Panther. Crosman 7.9-grain Premier.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    .22 Avenger,

    Yes, a .22 Avenger should have the power needed for small game.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    R9 power guy,

    Your idea of leaving your R9 cocked for a long time to lower the power is not a good one! When the spring weakens, it does so by bending. It’s called canting in this game. That will make your gun buzz and vibrate something fierce.

    There really is no way to easily reduce the power of an R9 to the level of an R7 because the stroke of the R9 is too long to allow it.

    Let me guess that what you really want is a smooth-shooting rifle that’s very easy to cock. Believe it or not, the R7 isn’t all that easy to cock!

    An airgunsmith can easily reduce the cocking effort of your R9 and turn it into a super-smooth shooter. It’s going to have more power than an R7, but what do you care if the gun performs as you desire?

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    JC,

    You are right about the two distances for testing spring rifles. I already figured that out, but I neglected to say anything about it. I was going to explain my rationale when I came to the next test.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hi All,

    First off I think the Quest is falling through.

    Next, the list by Kevin to DR G, (or the other way, not sure).

    You list goggle will they wear them.
    If you do not let them shoot w/o the eye protection, too bad go cry somewhere else, they WILL wear them. I never let my kids use a bike w/o a helmet, I was called a mean ogre by a parent(it was 92 degrees, as the woman lambasted me, my kid flipped over a play device and smack her forehead into a 2 foot square wooden peg, she brushed it off got back on her bike). I suggested (with a straight face) her if her kid refused to wear it, take it away. She insisted the kid would not wear it, “BE THE PARENT” I said, do the hard thing. She is your kid not your best buddy. My kid now drives. If kid no listen, daddy and mommy take away the keys.

    I who wear glasses took mine off when I was a kid as I used my “field master” BB gun and did the right back atcha knock out an eyeball trick. Considering I never take my glasses off, I was curious to see how accurate I could be with out them. I moved my head ever so slightly and missed missing an eye!

    zooooeee no glasses/goggle shields, no plink plink.
    (imho as a dad)

    The thing that drew me to the Quest was the price used and very very affordable. With a tank of fuel and a couple of bridges I can buy a new one, plus shipping and handling.

    I live way way too far away from Ohio to go to the big sale, or I would come.

    I am going right now to look at these three (used as well) crossman model 766., model 73, model 761xl. The xl has a wooden stock. Crosman made a few hundred then made them all in plastic.

    If anyone has an idea what these babies are worth please let me know. I don’t know if he has the boxes, but he took very good care of them.

    These are in very good shape. I will let my kid plink with them, if I buy any of them. I am sure they will need new seals so perhaps I will do a tutorial on them if I buy them.

    I need to take some time to set up an account here so I ca recieve email from members.

    chris

  • Anonymous Says:

    The Air Arms TX 200 MKIII in .22 cal that I ordered from PA arrived yesterday just before 1900. It is demmed heavy. It is also the first new air rifle that ever gave me a clean bore patch. I always run a patch down the bore of a new air gun before I shoot it, and usually they come back filthy.

    I mounted a Leapers Bugbuster and am zeroing the rifle–it came so late yesterday that I haven’t finished doing that yet. The action is extremely smooth, and I am impressed with the gun.

    I was reluctant to get the gun because it MUST be scoped; I would have got an R1 instead because it comes with “iron sights” and can be scoped as an option, except that PA doesn’t have the .22 cal R1s in stock. The .20 cal version of the R1 IS in stock, but costs $25 more than the .22 or I’d have got it. I guess it costs more because of the “unusual” caliber, and yet my .20 cal R7 didn’t cost any more than the .177 version.

    Regarding the discussions on dieseling, every springer I have–except for the TX200–has dieseled when it was new. I have got used to the “burnt oil” smell from a new break-barrel. I have never had an airgun detonate on me, but I have toyed with the idea of melting some candle wax into the skirt of a pellet. I wunda if that would be WOW!

    –Witt

  • Anonymous Says:

    OK, this is not making my decision any easier! I am stuck in the endless cycle of deciding which air rifle to buy.
    The Avenger seems like a great gun, but then so does the Tech Force 99, and so does the Crosman 2260, and so does the Benjamin 392…. I am currently leaning toward either the Avenger or the Tech Force 99 hoping that they are somewhat quieter than the other two. I am in need of a pest (squirrels)elimination rifle. I have woods directly behind my house so shooting back there is safe, but neighbors to the side that may be affected by loud gun noise.
    My dilema currently is that the Tech Force comes with a lifetime warranty and that seems like a great deal, but something is nagging at me and making me hesitate. Can anyone help me out so that I can finally just go ahead and make a decision, I’m going crazy!
    Thanks to all who post in this blog, the information is great fun to read!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    I don’t like telling someone what airgun to buy but I think you are narrowing it down to a spring gun. Both the TF 99 and the Avenger 1100 are entry-level guns in terms of build quality. It’s hard to say which is better. The 1100 has the better trigger, but the 99 may be more accurate. Both have equivalent power.

    Maybe this will help–you may not be buying the last airgun you’ll ever own.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thanks for your response.
    You’re right, this is my first, and perhaps not last, air rifle purchase and so I’m keeping with the entry level rifles. I still want to make sure I get a good one though. Accuracy is most important to me right now, I’m not so much into the power and am not trying to break the sound barrier or anything. Just want to hit what I’m aiming at and make sure it’s still appropriate for the intended purpose.
    Given this last sentiment one more possibility to pass by you. When I went back to look at the TF99 I noticed that the main advertisement for the TF59 was accuracy with moderate power. Is it more accurate than the TF99 and still powerful enough for hunting small game?

    Thanks again, I think i’m this close (fingers together) to making a decision!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Chinese airguns are always something of a gamble for accuracy. These days, however, the odds are in your favor of getting a good one.

    When I tested the TF 59, the rifle I tested was more accurate than the two TF 99s I tested. Our readers may have different experiences, however.

    Before you buy, though, I want you to also consider the Mendoza RM 200 in .22 caliber. The one I tested was accurate after I found the right pellet and had a wonderful trigger. Read this 4-part report:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/04/mendoza-rm-200-final-report.html

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    You know, upon reflection I also must recommend the Hammerli 490. It is wonderfully accurate, though the trigger is heavy. It’s not overly powerful, but the accuracy is remarkable! Read this report:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/01/hammerli-490-part-4-another-great-youth.html

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    OK, I’ve actually looked at both of those and they do seem nice. The power ratings are somewhat lower than the TF59 and TF99. Would they still be appropriate of ridding me of my unwanted attic and birdfeeder guests?

  • Anonymous Says:

    I think I’m going ahead with the TF 59 scope combo, (unless of course I decide to buy a 2260, or the avenger or the rm-200…. I’m hopless)

    Thanks for all of your advice. I was looking through some other blogs today and saw the ‘need for speed’ one. I definitely recognized myself in that one! Maybe one day that gun will get made and all questions like mine will have a simple, single answer. But where would the fun be in that?

    Some other things have been running through my mind concerning accuracy of these rifles:

    1) I notice that on several reviews of different rifles, different pellets behave differently. This is understandable, but what is eating me is that on one you mentioned that a certain pellet was hitting 2″ to the right, but grouping well. Doesn’t that mean that the rifle was shooting the pellets at a slight angle? If your sighted in at a certain distance, wouldn’t it then be off again at a further (or closer) distance? What to do about that?

    2) Same basic question, but concerning barrel droop. Since the scope is not mounted to the barrel, isn’t there an angle built in to the equation?

    I’m obviously a newbie to airguns and my learning curve is basically straight up right now, but I’m enjoying it all!

  • kevin Says:

    Anonymous still thinking about the TF 59 scope combo, (unless of course I decide to buy a 2260, or the avenger or the rm-200,

    You’re doing the right things. Using the search function on this site to read the wealth of information and then asking questions. Don’t stop that’s what this blog is for. I have a suggestion.

    Please ask your questions in the “comments” section under the most recent article that B.B. has written. Not only will B.B. see your questions but hundreds of other airgunners will see them and usually offer their experiences and answers to your questions. Here’s a link you’ll need to copy and paste but it will always take you to the most recent article that B.B. has written:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/

    Let me try to answer some of your questions.

    1-”A certain type of pellet hitting 2″ to the right but grouping well” doesn’t necessarily mean that the rifle was shooting the pellets at a slight angle. Think more in terms of the different aerodynamics of different pellets. Yes, at different distances your pellet impact with change just like in firearms. The POI (Point Of Impact) will change over distance because of gravity, cant, parallax, etc. What you do about that is find out which ammo/pellets work best at your short range distance and which ammo/pellets work at long range distance. Mil Dots in scopes have become more and more popular since they allow multiple aim points to address this differences and allow for greater accuracy. You just need to get know your gun and it’s preferred pellet(s) to know where it shoots at the various distances to either incorporated the mil dots in compensating or learn the windage and elevation adjustments on your scope knobs for your various distances that you intend to shoot. Options.

    2-”Since the scope is not mounted to the barrel, isn’t there an angle built in to the equation?” Not necessarily. Some guns will have barrel droop and some guns won’t. The reasons aren’t as important as knowing that there are multiple ways to compensate for this. Adjustable rings and bases built to compensate for the droop are the most popular ways to address this minor issue. Shimming the rings is also a solution.

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thanks for the advice and the description for my questions. I’ll check into the main page.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,

    You mentioned a 'tasco RedDot' no magnification sighting system earlier for field use.

    My question is … What would a good set-up on the 'avenger' be for field use?

    I have never used the 'reddot' sight system before. I like the idea. What could you recommend for the 1100?

    Also, what kind of basic pellet assortment do you recommend for testing a .22 air-gun?

    I'll be purchasing the Nitro and the 1100 in .22 for my shooting pleasure.

    Thanks in advance.

    Jason

  • kevin Says:

    Jason,

    Since you've never used a red dot sighting system before, here's some good articles that B.B. has written. The first is a two part series:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/12/laser-sights-part-2.html

    Here's another one he did recently:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/03/leapers-green-laser.html

    In using the search box on the right I got over 300 hits on "red dot" on this site. Lot of good info.

    If you go to google you can find "pellet samplers" at several airgun supply companies.

    B.B. writes a new article every weekday. You will find the majority of airgunners, like you, asking and answering each others questions in the "comments" under the most recent article that B.B. has written. Here's a link that will always take you to the most recent article that B.B. has written:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/

    Look forward to seeing you there!

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    Kevin thanks for the reply.

    I searched the sampler pellet issue a bit before I posted but was not satisfied with the answers I got.

    I guess I am flat out asking … Who sales a descent sampler for a .22 caliber pellet air-gun? Or, should I just make my own sampler?

    Also, I am under the impression that I should break the gun in prior to worrying to much about the best pellet and the true accuracy of the air-gun … is this correct or will it matter not? I guess another way to ask it would be … will the gun always prefer that pellet even before the break-in to after?

    On the same lines. Should you clean the bore before shooting the first pellets? I've read about special pellets that you can shoot a tin of to help the process. Is this necessary?

    Thanks again.

    (As a side note: I'm not new to guns but I am new to air-guns. I'm trying to get my list together for the upcoming purchase so I can hit the ground running.)

  • kevin Says:

    Jason?,

    I can't tell you who sells the pellet sampler since this site is affiliated with Pyramyd Air and the people that sell a good pellet sampler are their competition. If you google "ultimate pellet sampler" they will be at the top of the search.

    Regarding the Air Venturi Avenger 1100, the new guns are notorious for dieseling. B.B.'s test gun dieseled for 200 shots. During this period the gun detonated frequently. A gun that detonates when firing a pellet won't be accurate. Put a tin of 500 pellets through the Air Venturi Avenger and then worry about pellet testing. The Air Venturi Avenger that B.B. tested was in .177 caliber and so far the gamo match pellets were the best grouping.

    Don't clean your bore, just shoot the gun.

    I'm an old firearm guy that recently got into airguns. I'm hooked. B.B. has cost me a lot of money but also rekindled the shooter in me. I feel like a kid again with my first .22 semi auto remington by my side wherever I went.
    The Air Venturi Avenger needs good shooting technique. Use the search box on the right and type in "artillery hold". Read all you can about this.

    Lastly, if by "special pellets" to clean the barrel you mean cleaning pellets, DO NOT EVER USE THESE IN A SPRING GUN. Cleaning pellets are too light and will not offer enough resisitance to the piston when firing the gun. It will cause piston slam and can ruin your gun.

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thank you Kevin.

    You answered my questions very nicely.

    I've been compiling a 'wish-list' that seems to be growing and growing … darn you Pyramyd Air … ;@)

    Jason

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jason,

    Sorry about the policy. Try Straight Shooters for a pellet sampler.

    But I must be honest. You best results will be with Crosman premiers (7.9 grain for .177), JSB Exact 8.4 grain, and Air Arms domes. You might also do okay with RWS Superdomes.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thank you BB.

    I'll be buying exclusively (at least for now) in .22 caliber.

    Don't cause yourself anymore worries about the policy issues. It didn't bother me. I'll probably be just buying a large quantity of .22 tins (of all kinds) anyway.

    I appreciate the help.

    Jason

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jason,

    Great, I like .22 better for hunting anyway. Those same pellets in .22 (always the lightest if there is a choice) are still the best.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I'll keep that in mind BB. I appreciate the advice on the pellets.

    On a different subject … Have you used the "Daisy Electronic Point Sight" or the "Mendoza Diopter Sight, 11mm Dovetail" on the 1100 (or other air-guns)?

    Or should I be looking to spend more to get a better 'reddot' (ie to say is the daisy up to the task)?

    Thanks.

    Jason

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jason,

    The Mendoza diopter sight is a superior sight for a fantastic price. The way it is made it doesn't fit a lot of other guns, but it is made to fit Mendozas, which the Avenger is.

    The Daisy sight is one I have no experience with. Maybe one of our readers can help you?

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Well I guess for $9.99 I could just give it a try. Or spend a little more (less than 25 bucks) to get this http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_Golden_Image_1_Red_Green_Dot_Sight_Weaver_11mm_Dovetail_Combo/1234

    Decisions .. decisions.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jason,

    I own that one and it's great.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB (or others) …

    If I want to add a 'globe front sight' with exchangeable inserts where do I go?

    My interest is to have the rear peep sight and depending on how I like the front sight replace it with a globe front sight afterwards.

    Though I am going to buy the reddot sight mentioned above it is my intention to try open sights first.

    Any recommendations for a globe front sight?

    Thanks again.

    Jason

  • kevin Says:

    Jason,

    I've never owned an Air Venturi Avenger 1100 but I went to Pyramyd Airs site and they have a wonderful close up picture of the front sight. I'm concerned about the Muzzle brake? that's attached to the end of the barrel. Most globe front sights slide onto a dovetail cut into the end of the barrel. Doesn't appear this is how the 1100's front sights are attached. An alternative is globe front sights that can slide over the end of the barrel. Bulkier, and less attractive in my opinion, but effective nonetheless.

    I would call tech support at Pyramyd Air and ask them if they know of a globe front sight, that accepts inserts, that would fit the 1100. If they don't have a suggestion you may want to ask if the muzzle brake? can be removed and if so what the od of the barrel is in order to hunt for a globe sight.

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thanks Kevin.

    I couldn't make out the detail necessary to determine the best course of action. It isn't a must or anything just a opportunity to order all the items I want to play with at one time.

    I'll call PA tomorrow sometime and get the details on the front sight.

    As a side note: It does appear that the protective upper cover of the front sight is on dove rails. Whether or not the front sight is also removable is to tough to call from my computer screen. Or my advanced age is killing my vision. Maybe then a scope is the way to go …. ;@)

    Thanks.

    Jason

  • kevin Says:

    Jason,

    We're both having the same problem with the pictures on the PA site. I'm sure there is a way to remove that blob on the end of the barrel (muzzle brake? barrel sleeve? whatever you want to call it) and a way to remove the front sight. I seriously doubt there is a dovetail cut into the barrel under that blob.

    I think your idea of scoping this gun is a good one. As B.B. said in his 3 part in the series on this gun, there is no provision for a scope stop so be aware of that when you order a mount.

    Re-read the article above to see what B.B. did to his mount and how he improvised a scope stop by butting the mount against the rear of the end cap on the rifle.

    B.B. mounted a leapers scope on the gun he tested. You can't go wrong with a leapers scope. One of the best scope values in the market.

    kevin

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jason,

    I don't think removing the muzzle brake will be easy. I'm sure it is epoxied on.

    The front sight is held on with screws, and there are no replacement globe sights with the same screw hole patterns.

    These inexpensive airguns are not really made for customization.

    By the way, everyone criticized my idea of butting the scope against the plastic end cap. They all said that in time the end cap will break.

    I will soon be announcing a scope mount that is supposed to hold with clamping pressure, alone. I will test that claim so we know for sure.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    That is good info gentlemen.

    Good luck on the mount BB.

    Jason

  • filflo6 Says:

    can you tell me plz if i can use Air Venturi Gas Ram in the gamo hunter 440

  • kevin Says:

    fiflo6,

    Contact the Pyramyd Air Tech support. Their phone number is 1-888-262-4867.

    The phone call is free.

    kevin

  • Ryan Says:

    Would you recommend this rifle as an all around rifle (plinking,target shooting, maybe some small pest control)?

  • Ryan Says:

    How do the Crosman Premier Heavy (10.5 grain) pellets work in this rifle?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ryan,

    Yes, the Avenger 1100 would be a good plinking rifle, though a little on the hard-to-cock side. I like the RM 200 better, because it's easier to cock.

    Great trigger, too!

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ryan,

    I didn't test the Premier heavies for accuracy. But the Kodiaks worked well, so they might, as well.

    B.B.

  • Ryan Says:

    Does the plastic piece at the back of the 11mm grooves work as scope stop, or should I purchase one such as the Gamo scope stop?

    Thanks

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ryan,

    Pyramyd Air tells me that the plastic piece will break with time. You might want to use a BKL 262 mount that needs no scope stoo. Pyramyd Air should have them in another week.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Seems like there might be a nice cottage market for billet machined endcaps? Maybe include a sight mount?

    let me know if anyone does this, I'm a buyer.

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