by B.B. Pelletier
Today we’ll do something different and special with the Edge. This is the surprise I mentioned. I’ll install both an 18-inch barrel and a 24-inch barrel to see what effect they’ll have on the velocity.
Of course, this is possible only because all AirForce rifles use the same mounting system and all guns accept any barrel length in any of three calibers: .177, .20 and .22. Though the Edge is a little different than the sporting rifles they make, the barrels still interchange.
The 18-inch barrel can be installed and not show outside the frame of the rifle. It adds some weight to the gun, but it will still weigh under the 7.5-pound maximum of the sporter class. What I’m talking about is possible to do while staying within the rules.
I used the same pellets that were chronographed with the standard rifle that has a 12-inch barrel, so we’ll be able to compare all three barrels using the same powerplant. This should be fun.
…with Meisterkugelns
I installed the 18-inch barrel and tested it with all four pellets that were chronographed with the 12-inch barrel. One of those was the 7-grain RWS Meisterkugeln lites. In the 18-inch barrel, the light Meisterkugelns fit very loose at the breech, and three pellets failed to fire out the barrel altogether. Instead, they were crushed sideways in the breech by high-pressure air getting around the pellet skirt before it could seal off the breech. So, I shot only a few of these pellets. The few shots that exited the muzzle averaged 616 f.p.s., with a spread from 612 to 621. I’ll come back to that at the end of the report.
…with H&N Finale Match Pistol
The H&N Finale Match Pistol pellet averaged 605 f.p.s. in the 18-inch barrel. The spread was from 596 to 608. I’ll compare them at the end.
…with RWS R10 Rifle pellets
RWS R10 Heavy Match pellets averaged 536 f.p.s. in the 18-inch barrel. They also fit the tightest of all the pellets I chronographed. The range was from 533 to 544. I’ll compare them at the end.
…with H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets
H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets averaged 584 f.p.s. in the 18-inch barrel. The spread went from 574 to 593, for the largest total spread seen in this test (with the 18-inch barrel). I’ll compare them at the end.
…with Meisterkugelns
Surprisingly, the light Meisterkugelns fit the 24-inch barrel much better than the 18-inch. The average velocity was 636 f.p.s., and the spread went from 632 to 641. Comparison at the end of the report.
…with H&N Finale Match Pistol
Finale Match Pistol pellets averaged 604 f.p.s., with a spread from 595 to 608 in the 24-inch barrel. Comparison at the end.
…with RWS R10 Rifle pellets
The heavy RWS R10s averaged 545 f.p.s. in the 24-inch barrel. The spread went from 539 to 551. Comparison at the end.
…with H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets
Heavy H&N Finale Match pellets averaged 597 f.p.s. in the 24-inch barrel, with a spread from 589 to 606. That’s the largest velocity spread for the 24-inch barrel. Comparison at the end.
How do velocities compare between the three barrels?
Meisterkugeln 7-grain pellets
12-inch average — 563, spread 8 f.p.s.
18-inch average — 616, spread 9 f.p.s.
24-inch average — 636 f.p.s., spread 9 f.p.s.
H&N Finale Match Pistol
12-inch average — 524, spread 12 f.p.s. (taken from a 100-shot string)
18-inch average — 605, spread 12 f.p.s.
24-inch average — 604 f.p.s., spread 13 f.p.s.
RWS R10 Rifle (Heavy)
12-inch average — 487, spread 14 f.p.s. (taken from a 100-shot string)
18-inch average — 536, spread 11 f.p.s.
24-inch average — 545 f.p.s., spread 12 f.p.s.
H&N Finale Match Rifle (Heavy)
12-inch average — Did not test
18-inch average — 584, spread 19 f.p.s.
24-inch average — 597 f.p.s., spread 17 f.p.s.
Here’s what I take from this comparison. The Edge seems to benefit greatly from the 18-inch barrel. It gains significant velocity, and the velocity spread from the slowest to fastest pellet remains pretty much the same as with the 12-inch barrel. But moving to the 24-inch barrel doesn’t seem to add much more speed, and in one case it made the pellet go slower. The max spreads remain the same.
I don’t see an advantage to adding the 24-inch barrel, but adding the 18-inch barrel really perks up the performance. Also, the 24-inch barrel adds an additional half-pound of weight that may be unwelcome in the sporter class.
Here’s what I see. If you install the 18-inch barrel, you get higher velocity. The heavier rifle match pellets may become more usable at higher velocity. Or AirForce could trim back the air a bit and add a few more shots to the total. In other words, get back to the same velocity the 12-inch barrel gave, which would take a little less air in the 18-inch barrel. But I think 100+ shots are enough for the gun. I like the idea of faster velocity, which means no changes are required beyond switching barrels.
Another observation I’d like to make is that the Lother Walther barrels seem to have a break-in period. After 500-1,000 shots, they seem to shoot tighter groups. That’s just an observation of mine; I have nothing to back it up, but it does give me an idea.
If you recall, my groups with the Edge were criticized soundly, and other shooters around the country began posting much better results on the internet than the ones I shot. That reminded me–what do we do when a barrel doesn’t perform to expectations in the accuracy department?
We clean the barrel with JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound. Benchrest firearm shooters swear by JB Paste, and I’ve learned over the years that it often brings out the best in a barrel, so I’m going to clean the 12-inch barrel and re-shoot the accuracy test.
And, yes, to answer your unasked question, I will also shoot for accuracy with both the 18-inch barrel and the 24-inch barrel.
That’s it for now. I hope this revelation was worth the wait. I think it’s a pretty dramatic illustration of how barrel length affects pneumatic operations, and we are fortunate that all AirForce guns allow for it. We don’t have to just experiment; we can actually change the performance of the production rifle in a dramatic way.
A little off-topic, but I noticed over the weekend that you bought a Belgian Hyscore 801. I really hope you do a review of this little gem. I've owned both a .177 and a .22 (don't have either anymore.) They are truly elegant little rifles, with such simplicity and graceful lines. I hope you review this one.
Jim in PGH
Jim,
I bought it with that in mind primarily. Until last year I had never paid any attention to the 801, concentrating on the more well-known Diana 27 instead. But when David Enoch showed me his two 801s at the Little Rock show I became interested in this little rifle that has so much going for it. I really want to get to know this one.
B.B.
MY ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY (Part one)
This is significant to me and I may become a little sentimental but please bear with me.
It was one year ago today that I was blessed. B.B. was kind enough to invite me, along with others, to help answer questions on this blog. It was first an honor and quickly a blessing to do so. The blessing took shape in some wonderful friendships and an accelerated knowledge of the airgun world that I embraced, greatly needed and thoroughly enjoyed.
Some background. I stumbled upon this blog because I had a unique circumstance and was unable to use a firearm for my pest elimination. The next best thing to a firearm was an airgun in my mind but I didn't know what kind. I assumed that airguns had evolved significantly since I was a kid shooting a sheridan and came to this blog seeking the best airgun invention for my situation. I read this blog for quite awhile before mustering the nerve to post my first question. It was long after that before I dared write a comment about my airgun experiences. Back then Vince (Brandolini) was a regular contributor and frequently wrote guest articles. The breadth of his knowledge of a wide array of airguns from the inside out along with his self taught skills as an airgunsmith are amazing. Volvo (Chris W) spoke frequently in such an eloquent tone with a depth of experience in all types of springers (most I'd never heard of). His background was firearms and I immediately related to him. He evolved while I was on the blog into shooting pcp's and also became a guest writer and submitted some of my favorite guest articles. Wayne (burns, Wacky Wayne) was the spark that forever ignited and gave me quite a thrill to watch his insatiable appetite for airguns evolve into firearms and currently he has become passionate about FT, the ultimate in airgunning from my perspective. He has also become a friend. It was these souls (OH and B.B. too) that made it ok for a firearm guy to admit airguns were fun.
continued…..
MY ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY (Part two)
B.B.'s invitation to answer questions on this blog opened doors to me that I never knew existed in the airgun world. What you may not know is that when you accept this honor/responsibility you are exposed, through the majic of the internet, to all questions that are asked on this blog. I was amazed at the number of questions posted daily under articles written many years ago by B.B. (read work load you never knew existed).
Initially I rarely knew the answers but with research using that little box over on the right that allows searching over 1,280 articles written by B.B., all comments posted to all articles combined with the specs for guns, pellets, scopes, etc. posted on Pyramyd Air's website along with the customer reviews, 90% of the questions asked can be answered. For the other 10% B.B. creates a new, never heard before answer.
I made a commitment to myself that I would do this for a year. I still greatly enjoy contributing but have become overwhelmed with other issues recently and find that I'm unable to devote the time I'd really like to. After only a year of halfhearted effort in trying to answer a small fraction of the questions asked everyday on this blog in order to free up some of B.B.'s time to do more important things like testing airguns I can't help but admire of B.B.'s commitment to this sport and hobby.
B.B. (Tom Gaylord) has been a significant factor in the airgunning community for decades! B.B. started publishing The Airgun Letter in 1994, then during that time published Airgun Revue and concurrently wrote a book that is still highly regarded and sought after today called The Beeman R1 Supermagnum Air Rifle . Shortly thereafter he helped incubate the first ever airgun newstand magazine and called it Airgun Illustrated and concurrently held positions of editor, writer and photographer for the magazine. This is his ninth year of contributing articles on airgunning for Shotgun News. I know that in addition to writing an article for us everyday he does podcasts, tests guns and equipment for us, still writes for Shotgun News and is devoting an enormous amount of time to the worlds first ever airgun TV show, American Airgunner.
Since I'm forced to minimize my contribution to the blog I'm hoping that there are others that see the value in contributing their time to further our sport and hobby. If you commit to help, the benefits to your knowledge and your enjoyment of airgunning will increase. The real benefit to all of us and airgunning as a whole is allowing B.B. more time to test and develope new airguns and ideas.
Anybody willing to help our sport and hobby?
kevin
Hi BB,
Longer barrels in the Edge are very interesting. Sounds like the 18" barrel is the ticket. I bet some bore paste tightens up your groups as well.
My 22 cal Hyscore 801 came from Jim. Which caliber did you buy? I love the level of craftsmanship that went into those little guns, tapered barrels, the neat little pellet seater, the tightest fitting stocks I have ever seen, and everyone I have seen has different checkering patterns. I look forward to your review
David Enoch
David Enoch
Kevin,
I am very sad that you will be minimizing your participation, but that is offset by the experience of meeting and knowing you. You have been such a bulwark on this blog.
Like you I hope somebody will step up and volunteer, not to replace you, but to add their wisdom and different eyes to this great community.
I hope that you'll at least check in on us from time to time to see how we are doing. I know we will never forget you.
I would suppose that you want to be relieved of the flood of emails from the comments, so just let us know and we'll throw the switch.
Thank you so much for your help and insight!
Tom Gaylord
David,
I bought a .22. It's coming from Brad Warren on the Yellow Classifieds. I can't wait!
B.B.
I am surprised to see this gun not shooting one hole groups. Ditto for the Crossman Challenger. Also I surmise that you did not clean the barrel before doing accuracy testing?
I thought a barrel cleaning would be standard practice before doing a full test of any air gun?
It would be interesting to clean the barrel(s) and repeat the accuracy tests.
Kevin,
Your contribution to this blog has been amazing! The time commitment must have been enormous. I did one guess blog and found out how much work just one is! Thank you so much for helping me personally with the firearm world. I count you high on my list of online friends that I hope to hook up with someday.
Let's email each other often, with hopes or a connection someday on a business of fun trip.
I too, have been busy this last month with closing out the books on 2009, our 2010 budget, and 5 year projections… I hate math… good thing excel doesn't!
This blog takes a group effort… and it's worth it. The info and opinions offered are very, very helpful to a wide group of folks from newbies to experts… that's a very good thing!
I hope some folks will step up.. I'll do what I can as I get the financial stuff done… in the next month.. but then comes our busy season, so I can't help much.
Mr. B
That google space photo of me, in my "Wacky Wayne Wonderful Wazyboy Wecliner" is a collector item.. I gave that chair to my father-in-law when his broke… it was too big for my office/shootin room anyway, and I got into the sitting field target position shortly after that anyway…. so days gone by.. are gone by.. new ones await!
Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range
The 24" barrel would be useful to the extent it provides a longer sight radius for 10m competition unrestricted by sporter-class rules, i.e. free rifle.
Any chance of you doing those tests with a .22 Cal. barrel?
.22 barrel,
What would I be testing, if I tested a .22-caliber barrel? The Edge isn't designed for .22 caliber and I can't think of any reason to shoot one in that caliber.
B.B.
Jewish Marksman,
I have re-read your comment and I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
The barrel on the rifle doesn't come in contact with the front sight, so the length adds or subtracts nothing. And there is no free rifle airgun sport of which I am aware.
B.B.
B.B.,
Even though you're handing me my coat and hat I'm not going anywhere.
A lack of time right now is forcing me to minimize my contribution.
Like you I'm hopeful that others will step up and lessen your work load.
kevin
Wayne,
Thank you. It's been a lot of fun.
kevin
Kevin,
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to push YOU out the door. I just assumed you had come to the end of your operating hours and were going away.
If you are staying, then Happy Day! And shut my mouth!
B.B.
Tom, is the two stage trigger such that the trigger moves up to the sear without sear movement in the first stage? The second stage is then the actual movement of the sear?
I presume there is no adjustment of the stages?
thank you.
BTW are you getting better groups yet?
Walter
Kevin,
Along with a few others here I would be honored to consider you a friend, even though we have never met. I was amazed that you were able to dedicate the time that you did to the Blog.
Your expertise will certainly be missed along with your larger than life persona. Big game guide, world traveler, business mogul, treasure seeker, firearm and airgun expert are just of few of your titles, and while you seem to consider yourself just an “average guy”, to the rest of us average guys your adventures are the things dreams are made of.
While you have certainly earned your right to enter this Blog’s Hall of Fame with no further effort, perhaps now that you are free from the barrage of e-mails you will honor us with an occasional guest blog? I believe we would all enjoy this, and it would entail far less time and give us more of the real you.
No matter what, I think air rifles are ingrained deep enough in your blood, that there is no reason to say goodbye for good. I am positive I will see occasional posts and questions here and on other forums, at which time a smile will show on my face. I know this from my own experience, when I tried to throw in the towel on all but my FX Cyclone: "Every time I try to get out, they keep pulling' me back IN!!"
By the way, the problem you leave B.B. is the best possible one to have in business, too much business. Visit other Blogs on airguns and the comments are as sparse as modest young ladies in a “Girls Gone Wild” commercial.
Arrivederci for now and Rath Dé ort from your Italian Irish friend that reveres Swedish cars and air rifles – Volvo.
B.B.
I see a possible problem here….
Two of my Talon barrels are loose enough at the breech end that a seating tool is required. The pellets fall into the barrel below flush.
A problem like this could be a major irritation to a competition shooter.
AF might have to hand pick barrels that are tight enough at the breeh end so that the pellets can be seated with thumb pressure…without the need for a seating tool.
twotalon
Walter,
Yes, the two-stage trigger isas you describe. Stage one is light and just a take-up stage. The sear does not move. Stage two is very crisp and is the only stage where the sear moves. THe stages do not adjust, beyond what I have described.
B.B.
Twotalon,
You describe the freebore or tapered leade that AirForce puts in their barrels so shooters can load solid bullets. I assume the 18-inch barrels you mention have it. I know for a fact that the 24-inch barrels have it.
So you are saying that the 18-inch barrels they would put into an Edge should not have a tapered leade. That's a very good point.
No hand-selection is required. They just don't taper the leade in the barrels that are destined for the Edge. That's assuming they decide to use the 18-inch Talon barrel.
B.B.
Kevin,
Looks like I jumped the gun also, read your first posts and went straight to the comment box. Volvo
Volvo,
Thank you for the kind words.
Not only have you been a good friend but an inspiration to me in the airgunning world.
You're absolutely correct that I've become hooked on airguns. More fun than a semi-grown man should be allowed.
Although you're being very kind to suggest I write a guest blog I don't know of anything I could say that would be a contribution to this great place.
Hope all is well with you and your family.
kevin
B.B.
The 12" .177 barrel in my SS is one of the loose ones. The 18" .177 is tight enough to use my thumb only. Each of the 6 barrels that I have have a different amount of tapered leade. Some have the "right" amount and some don't.
As long as AF uses a "special" barrel there should not be a problem….as long as the pellets are not too hard to seat without a tool.
I could fix my "loose" barrels with a little bit of trimming in the lathe if I wanted to. Might have to reposition the bushings on one of them….by just a bit.
twotalon
Twotalon,
When you said Talon barrel I assumed you meant the 18" one. I don't know if AF puts a tapered leade in the 12" barrel or not, but it's something they should look at for the Edge.
B.B.
Yes…
Pellet fit at the breech is tricky. Those that are tight enough will be O.K….
But those that are as loose as a couple of mine will be a problem. It is hit or miss in the fit department. No two are the same.
They don't want one that is going to be loose in a competition rifle. It's only a minor annoyance in a hunting rifle to use a seating tool after dropping in a pellet.
The barrels that leave just a bit of skirt sticking out that can be pressed by thumb are great…no tool needed.
Pellets drop into my 12" barrel and leave almost 1/16" space to the end of the barrel. No way to seat without a tool. My 12" .22 barrel leaves just a bit of skirt sticking out. Just about right.
My better 18" .22 is also loose. The 24" .22 is about right, as is the 18" .177.
We will forget about the original .22 18", as it is a piece of junk….bad bore.
twotalon
B.B.
Can you give any details on the "stunning" accuracy of the Air Force Edge posted on the internet? I looked and couldn't find anything. I think if I could see < .10 in. at 10 yards or (1 MOA) I would be impressed. What would cause a new production barrel to be dirty? I know that my B30, according to Rich Imhoff, was covered with rust–but that was BAM after all….
I think that what Jewish Marksman is saying is that an increased sight radius is an advantage to accuracy in its own right. I hear this comment about the M1 Garand in comparison to the M1A and David Tubb goes on at length about using barrel extensions to increase sight radius. But maybe this is just for longer distances.
Kevin, sorry to hear that you won't be around so much. However, I have thought too sometimes that I was spending too much time on the blog and look at me. 🙂 I'm not counting you out by any means. By the way, thanks for your advice about the polo shirt and Ballistol. Invaluable stuff. I have some exotic knives–genuine Gurkha Kukris and a hand-forged Sudanese blade–that need to be de-rusted.
B.B., I passed the time over the break reading Bob Lee Swagger novels by Stephen Hunter–all of which I highly recommend. In one of them, there is a character named D.A. Parker supposedly based on a historical G-man who shot it out with Baby Face Nelson and other gangsters. I don't know if D.A. Parker rings a bell for you as a pseudonym for somebody. Anyway, this character claims that Nelson was a very sophisticated and forward looking gunsmith in addition to being a total psychopath. While training a cadre of police officers, the Parker character also says something to the effect that he's training them with .45 ACP since .357 magnum would take them two years to master? Make any sense to you. This would mean that Wayne with his S&W 27 is a true prodigy.
Matt61
Matt,
Did you not see the groups posted on the Yellow by Mike Reames? And apparently our own Ron has also posted some great groups somewhere. That is what I referred to.
B.B.
Matt,
The .45 ACP in a 1911A1 is many times easier to master than a full-house .357 in anybody's wheel gun. The recoil is minimal with the .45 and if you hang the thumb like I mentioned to you, it's almost a non-issue.
A .357 Magnum will point you to the sky. Wayne may shoot a .357, but he uses .38 Spl. loads.
B.V.
BB or Anyone…
Before I start, this is NOT another, dumb Pellgunoil question (I hope)
Looking at the size of letter "B" lead birdshot on the Remington site, it is listed as .170 / .171 diameter
So… if a typical "BB" gun barrel is .173 diameter, then wouldn't the "B" size birdshot work in a "BB" barrel? (other than it may slip out the barrel due to the slightly smaller size diameter).
Thanks
Brian in Idaho
B.B.
Thanks. I've never gotten around to the Yellow since I spend all my time here. And I don't know that I'll ever get through the backlog of comments from when I was gone. I'm looking to the future. 🙂 But that's good to know about the groups.
On the subject of rust, I found my rifle case open when I picked it up on arrival in Hawaii! All the latches were open, but the three padlocks held it closed so that there was about an inch clearance. Upon examination, I found that my M1 Garand, after a stopover of a couple hours in Oregon, was covered with patches of rust on the receiver and barrel. What goes on in Oregon?! Anyway, I got the rust cleaned up with some cheap gun oil, but it's nice to know that Ballistol is there if necessary. Too bad PA doesn't stock it since I'll have to pay someone else for it.
Matt61
Kevin,
I must also add my voice to the crowd of those who will miss out on your wealth of information. I figure that I personally have not yet picked even half of your brain. (I haven't picked 1/10th of BB's brain and I've been picking away for over a year now.) However, I know how time consuming this blog can be. Many days I sit down with a cup of coffee in the morning to catch up on the blog and the next thing I know it's afternoon already and that's without having to share knowledge like you do. Not only that, but all day long I can't walk past my computer without stopping to check for new comments.
Stay cool. In the meantime I will fantisize that you are actually on another adventure and writing a sequal to the "St. Thomas to South America" by Kevin book you are currently writing 🙂
-Chuck
Matt61,
As usual B.B. is correct in his .357 magnum comments, especially since they are available in some smaller platforms. A large frame .357 with a 6 inch plus barrel is not so bad, but my small frame 5 shot Smith and Wesson was built for punishment on both ends. Every now and then when I am feeling my oats I shoot heavy .357 loads in it, and I guess you just need to try it to understand.
Anyway, as far as the age old battle goes, I still prefer a wheel gun for home. However I am in still the market for a mouse type .380 semi-auto for the reasons B.B. brought up before.
Volvo,
If you are seriously looking for a mouse gun as a backup, I heartily recommend the Micro Desert Eagle. I have not done the second Part of my report on it yet, but it is able to hold all rounds on about a 6" circle at 20 feet if you do your part.
It's also dead-nuts reliable and has very little in the way of recoil. Believe me, I have tried the Kel-Tecs and the S&W and Colt snubbies and this has them all beat
B.B..
Brian,
I mis-read your comment. Gosh, how I miss Kevin already!
Yes, if shot size B is that size then it should work in a BB gun. As long as the gun doesn't use magnets for anything dealing with the shot.
B.B.
B.B.
Yes I am. I have some free time and would like to get my CCP. I will use the Smith and Wesson 60 for the classes, but would want something even smaller also. As you know, I have cut 90% of the fat out of my collection so I would like to get it right the first time. Your suggestion will be on the top of the list. Any new thoughts on the Ruger .380? I heard maybe the bugs were worked out now, the reason I ask is the Ruger’s are always a good price.
Thanks BB on the "B" size birdshot question.
Also, I re-read your New Years Wishlist for mfgrs. and just noticed your "PCP Shop-air" comment.
How can we push the mfgrs. for this development? Is it really possible given the pressure/volume ratios etc?
Intriguing idea nonetheless!
Brian in Idaho
Volvo,
Be careful of using the Smith for getting the license. Here in Texas if you take the test with a revolver, you are limited to carrying a revolver. If you take it with a semiauto, you can carry anything, so long as it's larger than .25 caliber.
You don't have to take the test with your carry gun, either. Edith and I both used 1911s for the test, even though she now carries a Glock and I carry the Micro Desert Eagle.
B.B.
Volvo,
The Ruger LCP already had one recall. I checked it out but did not test-fire one. The Micro is slightly larger, but it is a true DAO, where the Ruger is only a first-shot gun, I believe. Like the Kel-Teks, if the first trigger pull doesn't fire the gun the slide must be cycled. I believe that is true for the Ruger. I know it's that way with the Kel-Teks because I carried a 9mm for a brief time.
BB,
If you're taking a survey for interest in micro DE Part 2, you can count on mine.
-Chuck
Brian,
I believe it is possible to power an airgun on shop air. You may not get a lot of shots and the velocity may be lower, but I'm pretty certain that it's possible.
B.B.
Edith,
I noticed that the description for the .20 Dewey cleaning rod mentions the cleaning jag included but the .177 and the .22 do not.
-Chuck
Chuck,
Thanks, Edith's on it.
B.B.
Kevin
Thank you for not revealing my secret identity.
B.B.
Sorry to be off topic. You've given a lot of praise to B square for their adjustable mounts.
Given there are more moving parts on these how do they hold up on spring guns?
or what about their non adjustable vs. one piece?
I'm having trouble with the leapers mounts not sitting squarely on the barrel of my mendoza rm-600. The B square website lists specific mounts for mendoza rifles so I may try them but they're a lot more money.
flyfisher,
Back when there WAS a B-Square company and not just a holding company, these rings were made in the U.S. and they held up on all spring airguns. Now that they are made in China I hear bad things about them.
Sun Optics is bringing in similar rings, also made in China, but I have no information about them.
B.B.
Flyfisher
I would not recommend the B square mounts on a springer. I put them on my TX200 (moderate recoil) and it blew the stop pin out of the hole and sent the mounts back a centimeter in about 3 to 4 shots. You also cannot adjust the depth of the stop pin. And they are quite expensive aren't they?
They are great on a PCP however.
Try flipping your leapers mounts around to see if it helps.
WV: vileness (what? I was nice this time!)
Kevin,
I have been reading more, and the help you have provided to many of us would make you an easy way to heaven. I thank you for that. And I hope all your bussiness' are okay.
I didn't know you're an adventure-man! I'm researching on that, I love that also.
If you ever come to Guadalajara (the land of tequila and wide-eyed women), I'll show some knives that surely will be of interest.
Anthony
Thanks for the info guys
I've tried flipping the whole mount and also both sides of the dovetail clamp on the leapers mounts.
Any other suggestions or types of mounts I should try?
I suppose I could just live with the scope tilted a little. It looks horrible to me though.
Kevin,
The extra time you've spent will be missed. Its some big shoes to step into helping out here. Thanks to BB for stepping into those shoes every business day and holidays too!
Kevin, I tried that link you gave to the Crosman catalog and it doesn't seem to work. Have they deactivated it?
Thanks,
A.R.
B.B. and all
Cataracts……..
Look through a peep sight and see what looks like a bit of lint in the peep.
Later…
Look through the peep and see a white spot where the bullseye should be.
Still later…..
The air looks dirty or foggy all the time.
Still later….
You can't see crap. Impossible to safely drive. A dump truck at 50 yds is invisible in the fog.
Finally…
Get cataract removed (lens replacement). Can see again.
twotalon
Twotalon,
Welcome back. Another cause of lint in the peephole is closing your other eye. It will do it every time.
B.B.
B.B.
Did not know that closing one eye would do that too.
Right now I just ignore the fog from the left eye…it's like having extremely dirty glasses on one side. Or trying to look through waxed paper.
Get my other eye fixed in a couple weeks. The Doc fixed my shooting eye first.
twotalon
Matt,
RE: Ballistol at PA
But they do stock it… I've bought some from them!
/product/ballistol-lube-aerosol-spray-6-oz?a=2072
Herb
Herb,
Look at the price. It's discontinued.
B.B.
Herb,
I was going to get some from them, too but they're showing it as discontinued. I've looked for it around here but can't find any at the gun stores. Maybe someone else on the inet has some.
-Chuck
BB,
Sorry about being off topic but I just picked up what I think is a prewar Diana Mod 23 this weekend at the Fredrick Co gun show and I can not find any information on it at all. It is marked Made in Germany, has a ball detent for barrel lockup, leather seals, a simple trigger connected directly to the sear and the Diana Goddess on the receiver. After it settled down from the seal oiling it is shooting light Wasp target pellets at 500 fps. If you know where I can get any other info on this little gun I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Sam
Flyfisher,
I had been looking for 30mm 2 piece adjustable rings, and since PA does not sell any, I decided to try the Sun Optics 30mm adjustable rings (purchased from a competitor to PA). I installed these on my tuned Quest 800, and despite proper mounting, they failed before I even finished sighting them in (about 12 shots – the front mount pivoted up and rearward, and part of the aluminum started to shear off the front of the mount's dovetail). I have been working with Steve at SBDGlobal to work out what went wrong and correct the situation. It turns out that Sun messed up and made a bunch with a 45 degree angle on the dovetail instead of 60 degrees, thus the mount failed quickly due to minimal engagement with the rifle's dovetail. Steve has been great in dealing with this problem, and says Sun is on it and is correcting their stock. They are working it out, and I expect to have good mounts to use – but since they will likely be coming from China, I have no idea when.
But the real point here is that he shared something particularly relevant to your question: he told me that he uses these mounts on his Webley Patriot, but uses an additional separate scope stop behind the front mount, along with the existing rear mount pin, and that it works very well. I figure that if they can survive mounting on a Patriot (along with the additional scope stop), they should survive anything. You might want to consider this set up for your springer too. He is sending me a scope stop along with the mounts when the good ones come in from Sun.
I don't have a date for when I'll have the mounts, but once I get them up and running, I'll be sure to post how they perform and how well they hold zero.
Alan
B.B. Pelletier said…
Brian,
I believe it is possible to power an airgun on shop air. You may not get a lot of shots and the velocity may be lower, but I'm pretty certain that it's possible.
B.B.
January 11, 2010 1:38 PM
Tom, Cannot imagine that working out. If a QB or Crosman 160 is filled with 800psi air they will get about 3-4 shots of rapidly falling velocity.
Flyfisher,
I should point out that the Sun Optics adjustable mounts on Steve's Patriot were manufactured at the correct 60 degree angle, not the flawed 45 degrees . . . .
And my impression of everything else about the mounts was very good – albiet for a very short time 😉
Alan
Shop-air gun seekers,
Such a "gun" is very possible, it is just that it is likely to be very different from what most of us think of as "normal." Bear in mind that big Punkin Chunkin air cannons shoot pumpkins at distances of over 4000 feet (using 80 foot barrels!) do so with pressures in the realm of shop air. But it does take a larger reservoir (how does over 250 cubic feet sound?).
There are also the so-called "spud guns" that can be easily carried and can shoot a potato over 100 yards. People make versions of these for paintball that blast out 50 or more paintballs at a time to take out large groups.
Very high velocities are unlikely, but I think usable consistent velocities are possible with longer barrels (think in terms of the Daisy 499 as a starting point). The issue will likely be the limited number of shots due to the large volume of air that will need to be used for each shot – but add an air hose, and the shots are potentially unlimited.
Alan
RE: Ballistol at PA
My apologies. I just saw the can in the web page and didn't scroll down to see that it was discontinued.
Herb
BB,that intresting about the change of velocity in the longer barrels on the Edge! I might have to order another barrel. Was the accuracy as good as the 12 inch barrel? The leade in my 12 inch barrel is tight. I haven't tried a pellet yet that dosen't take a little pressure with the thumb,or a seating tool.The barrel is shooting better all the time (it has had around 1500 pellets through it). It isn't shooting any more accurate than before,but seems "less sensitive" to diffrent brands/weights of pellets now. I've never cleaned the bore yet.I've read that you should never clean a air rifle bore,unless the accuracy starts to go away. I have used JB Paste in my center fire bench rest guns with great results,but never gave a thought to using it in my air rifles. The H&N 7.56 Pistol pellets still lead the pack in accuracy,but maybe with a increase in velocity,the heavier pellets might be better? You have me thinking now! 🙂 Ron
Kevin,
Here's a heart's felt thank you from all those folks whose questions you so skillfully answered in some many varried disciplines. I personally enjoyed the comments on stock refinishing.
We'll all be wating for your occasional hello guys!
Mr B.
Kevin,
we will always remember to use the search box, in your honor, for all questions.
Twotalon,
welcome back. Here's hoping the second eye operation is as successful as the first!
Finally, for you folks suffering light rust on your rifles when being stored in gun cases, did you rub them down with some of that good 20W non-detergent motor oil prior to storing them? Just curious if anyone had done that and still suffered rust.
Fred PRoNJ
BB,
I still am lusting for the Crosman Nitro but, re-reading your review, noticed that no mention is made of the barrel being choked. I assume it's not choked?
Fred
Brownell's in MOntezuma,Iowa sells Ballistol over the internet. They are a big firearms parts and accessories company–espec. AR-15s
I remember one of my mentors early in life said do something, anything, for 20 days and it will become a habit.
Habits die hard.
kevin
Matt61,
Welcome back. Hope that you're foray into paradise were revealing.
The finish on knives are forgiving unlike blueing on guns. Take 0000 steel wool and use mothers mag polishing compound (or similar compound) and you can quickly remove rust. Polish with a dremel with buffing head smeared with pepsodent toothpaste (000000 buffing compound).
kevin
Chuck,
Thanks for your thougts. You certainly made me smile.
Suggesting that I'm writing a book about my fiascos is comical.
kevin
Fred,
No, I have not put anything on the barrels of my IZH-61s, yet. I will once I do the Ballistol treatment. I'll report back in a year and let you know how it goes.
-Chuck
Anthony,
All I heard was your invitation to Guadalajara. How do I get in touch with you?
Although Cardinal Ocampo was killed while I was in Belize and the repercussions were felt throughout the country I always wanted to visit Guadalajara.
Reach me at klentz4@comcast.net if you're serious about an invitation.
kevin
Slinging Lead,
Your secret is safe with me. ;^)
kevin
flyfisher,
The mendoza 600 is famous for not having square dovetails.
Rather than worry about an adjustable mount (like the b-squares or sportsmatch) secure your mount as best you can on this snake-like dovetail and use a two part, clay consistency, epoxy to shim your rings. This is the most common fix for the mendoza 600.
If you google "epoxy shims for scopes" you'll probably find what I'm talking about.
kevin
Mr B.,
You are a twin brother from a different mother.
Everyone should realize that you are one of the few remaining souls that accepted this same honor to help B.B. answer questions on this blog at the same time I did.
God Bless you.
You unselfishly answered questions and directed lost souls to the current blog in an untiring manner. You're truly an unsung hero.
It's unfortunate that there are so few that know how much you have done. I'd be honored to meet you some day.
kevin
Fred,
You're a man after my own heart.
Your unrelentless echo of my cry "Use the search box" always brought a smile to my face.
Thank you.
kevin
Kevin,you have been a vital part of this blog.I have learned alot from you.From "dealing"with you,you are one of the good ones!I am sure my stock would look like driftwood were it not for your expert advice.Please don't go far…. Frank B
Walter,
I know of airguns that run on 175 psi air and get 12 shots at 500 f.p.s.
B.B.
Sam,
All I have on the prewar 23 comes from the Blue Book, which I assume you also have. If not there is no start date and only an end date of 1940. It looks similar to the post-war 23 but almost no parts interchange.
Go here and ask your question:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/405945/
Good luck!
B.B.
Ron,
You'll have to wait for the accuracy test.
Yes, JB Paste is often used on steel airgun barrels, but as you say, only when accuracy declines.
Just keep shooting. At the low velocity of the Edge it may take a year before anything happens.
B.B.
Kevin,
My twin from a different mother, you are much too kind sir. More times than not you'd already answered those questions or guided those "lost souls" to the current blog. The depth and breadth of your answers still hold me in awe.
Mr B.
Tom, please tell me what those aiguns are? intersted in checking them out.
thanks
walter
Walter,
They are handmade. There is no way you can check them out, as the maker/owner doesn't want his name published. Sorry.
But several readers have pointed you to the mythbusters and to punkin' chunkin' where 100-300 psi can through an 8-pound chicken at 400 mph or a 10-pound pumpkin a mile. 400 mph is over 500 f.p.s.
That you can check out on the internet.
B.,B.
When you say an airgun I presume you mean something that can be held, carried and not tethered to a shop compressor.
No need to publish a makers name but perhaps a picture? or a review of said airgun?
with respect to pumpkin chuckers…. kinda like calling the 16" guns on the Arizonan (?) hunting rifles.
Got to see what my Vulture will do on 200psi….. 🙂
walter….