AirForce Edge – Part 6

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5


AirForce Edge 10-meter sporter-class target rifle.

Okay, important day here. This is the day we find out if the Edge I’m testing really is accurate. If you recall, in Part 4 I shocked many of you by showing you all the groups I shot, both good and bad. Apparently, the bad groups overwhelmed the senses of many readers who promptly told me so in no uncertain terms.

And then some other results from other shooters came in that contradicted my findings. Ron, our reader who just bought an Edge, reported much better groups than I and told of someone breaking many aspirins successively at a shooting range. And Mike Reames posted a great bunch of groups over on the Yellow Forum.

I had to rethink my test, and so I did. I remembered the trick of cleaning the bore with JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound, so I cleaned my barrel. In fact, I cleaned all three barrels, the 12-inch barrel that came with the rifle, an 18-inch Talon barrel and a 24-inch Condor barrel that I borrowed from AirForce for those velocity tests. All of these barrels are in .177 caliber, because .177 is the only caliber that’s permitted in 10-meter matches. Besides, at the low velocity of a 10-meter rifle, .22 caliber isn’t really practical.

I knew that if I did the velocity tests on all three barrels that you guys would also want me to test accuracy as well, so I did it. And I finally buckled to the pressure to stick the gun in a vise, though personally I don’t see the attraction. I chucked the rifle in a vice for these tests, so no part of B.B. Pelletier will influence the outcome.


The Edge held in a vice. Every shot was taken this way. The target paper downrange was moved for each new group.

Most informative!
I actually learned a lot about the Edge in this test, because I wasn’t concentrating on the shooting so much. So, maybe the vice was not a bad idea, after all. I just don’t want to hear it suggested for future testing, say with a breakbarrel or an underlever. But for this test, it worked well.

What did I learn? Well, as I shot the different length barrels there was the occasional cleaning done to keep things moving along. As the barrels were cleaned and fired, I began to remember the break-in regime for a world-class .22 target rifle. You shoot it for X number of shots, then clean the barrel. Shoot and clean. Shoot and clean. This “seasons” the barrel, making it smoother and smoother. In fact, when I did an article for Shotgun News on the accuracy of a Butler Creek barrel in a Ruger 10-22, their instructions specified the exact same thing. Shoot and clean. Don’t even expect accuracy until after the first 200-300 shots.

Since the gun was in a vice, it was easy to shoot and clean. That’s how it went. And you know what? There was a definite improvement in the accuracy of each barrel as things progressed. Even though I’d cleaned all three barrels before the start of the test, and despite the fact that the 12-inch barrel had at least 300 of my own shots on it when I began, accuracy continued to improve as I shot and cleaned. That’s not to say that you can’t just take the rifle out of the box and shoot it, but in the first thousand shots you would be advised to clean the barrel after every 50 shots or so.

All I mean by cleaning is to remove the reservoir (10 seconds) and run a patch moistened with Hoppes Number Nine through the bore. Yes, I said Hoppes Number Nine. That’s what cleaned all three of the barrels in this test and there were no bad effects. After the one wet patch, run dry patches through, breech to muzzle only, until they come out clean. It takes all of two minutes to do. If you owned a new major .22 rimfire target rifle this is the same thing you would be advised to do.

Pellets
I had a large variety of target pellets on hand for this test, and as it turned out, that was a good thing. Because I learned a ton about the rifle, and more specifically, about each barrel. Each barrel performs so vastly different with different pellets that no assumptions can be made. Forget the fact that they’re all made by Lothar Walther, because each one has it’s own favorites and it’s own group of pellets that it dislikes.

Here’s a list of all the pellets I tested in these three barrels:

H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets
H&N Match Pistol pellets (yes, they are different that Finale Match — check them out)
H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets
Meisterkugeln Pistol (7 grains)
RWS Meisterkugeln Rifle (8.2 grains) pellets
RWS R10 Rifle Match pellets
RWS Basic pellets
Vogel match pellets with a 4.50mm head – 8.2 grains
Vogel match pellets with a 4.495mm head 8.2 grains
Vogel match pellets with a 4.90mm head – 8.2 grains
Chinese target pellets with a blue label – 7.6 grains

Although that’s a long list, and I did check every barrel with almost every pellet, the list is nowhere near inclusive. There are still plenty of target pellets to check, as well as plenty of other wadcutters. You must use wadcutter pellets in 10-meter matches because of scoring. The scoring equipment needs the clean holes that wadcutters cut in the target paper, which, by the way, is also mandatory. You must use approved targets. I used Edelmann targets from Germany, which are the equal of any target on the planet. They are made of very heavy paper that cuts absolutely clean holes.

I didn’t bother shooting at bulls, because the gun was in the vice. So the target paper was turned around so its back faced the firing point 10 meters away, and, as I advanced, the target was simply slid over for the next group. That speeded up the test considerably, though it still took 3.5 hours to complete with all the pellets and barrels in the mix.

24-inch barrel
The 24-inch barrel was in the rifle at the start, so I tested it first. I shot group after group, as you can see from the long list of pellets. The H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets were best, in general. They consistently gave superior results.

After the H&Ns came the Vogels with the 4.49mm head as a close second. Remember, these are heavier rifle-type pellets and that the Edge gets its highest velocity with the 24-inch barrel.


H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets were best in the 24-inch barrel


Vogel target pellets with the 4.49mm head were a very close second, as you can see.

I didn’t shoot just one group with each pellet. If a pellet showed promise, I shot several groups–sometimes as many as six. With all that shooting, I discovered that the barrel likes to be cleaned. Even though I’d cleaned it with JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound before the test began, I still used the additional cleaning method described above, which is how I began noticing the improvement. Naturally I made cleaning a part of testing the other two barrels, to keep things consistent.

18-inch barrel
You would think after testing the 24-inch barrel for so long that the 18-inch barrel test would be a walk in the park, but it wasn’t. This barrel exhibited completely different likes, and I had to start from the beginning again.

The 18-inch barrel proved to be more selective than the 24-inch barrel. It liked the Vogel target pellet with the 4.5mm head best of all and all other pellets were about the same. But when I say the Vogel was the best, I really mean it, because it gave superb groups, including one that was the best single group of the entire session! A group that is actually sized like all those Daisy 853 groups everybody claims they shoot offhand. This one would look at home as the test target of an FWB P700 target rifle!


Vogel target pellet with the 4.50mm head gave stunning groups, including this one-hole screamer.

The 18-inch barrel was cleaned during the shooting session, just as described above. Immediately after the cleaning is when it settled down with the Vogel 4.50mm pellets and started to shoot well.

But this test was really never about the 18-inch barrel or the 24-inch barrel. It was always about the 12-inch barrel that comes with the rifle. So let’s go there now.

12-inch barrel
Bottom line first–the 12-inch barrel was the most accommodating of the three lengths tested. It likes more different pellets than either the 18-inch or 24-inch. Perhaps that’s because I shot more groups with it than with the other two. It was cleaned beforehand with JB Paste, the same as the others, and it was also cleaned during this test in the same way I describe above.

In the beginning, it was harder to find a great pellet, but after the cleaning things seemed to change. But they didn’t change as fast as with the other two barrels. In a curious twist of events, there are two best groups that seem to be the exact same size, yet they were created with two different pellets. I actually had to measure about eight separate groups with calipers while wearing a magnifying hood to find these two, because the ones that are larger are only so by a few thousandths of an inch! An embarrassment of riches!


One of two best groups with the 12-inch barrel. This one was made with the H&N Finale Match Rifle pellet.


The other best group with the 12-inch barrel. This one is rounder in appearance and was made with the Vogel 4.95mm pellet.


Another super group, but one that measures a few thousandths of an inch larger than the other two. Also made with the Vogel 4.50mm pellet.


And another great group, also made with the Vogel 4.50mm pellet. That pellet shot the most consistently in the 12-inch barrel, though H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets was its equal for the best group.

I shot many, MANY more great groups with the 12-inch barrel, which proved that it was the most flexible of the three barrels I tested in this Edge. The H&N Finale Match Rifle and the Vogel 4.50mm and 4.495mm pellets were the three best–hands down.

I hope this has demonstrated the accuracy potential of the Edge rifle for all of you. In fairness to Crosman, I believe that if I were to run this same exhaustive test on their Crosman Challenger PCP I would get similar results. I’m not going to do that, but I strongly recommend that those who own that rifle consider cleaning their barrels as I have done here. I would not recommend using Hoppes Number Nine solvent on the Crosman rifle, though, because of its design. I would use Birchwood Casey’s Gun Scrubber for synthetic guns instead. Even Daisy Avanti 853 owners could benefit from this cleaning, because your barrels are Lothar Walther, as well.

47 thoughts on “AirForce Edge – Part 6

  1. After this extensive testing,I wish I owned stock in Hoppes!Thank you for this extensive and enlightening round of testing….some of those groups look like they were shot with a drillpress!I have to go,I am waiting for a brown truck to deliver USFT94!!!!!!!!!



  2. I also want to give credit where it is due…Yesterday I called Tim Mcmurray at Mac-1.I needed a charge adapter for USFT #94.In the grand scheme of things,not a very profitable phone call for Tim.In spite of that,and the fact I was buying a used USFT,instead of a new one from him,He couldn't have been more helpful!He spent a half hour on the phone,carefully teaching me everything I would want to know about setting up the gun for my purposes.This is a World class airgun maker folks,and like Pyramyd,He cares about treating the customer well.The airgun hobby thrives because of the efforts of people like BB,Edith,Josh Unger and Tim at Mac-1!!


  3. B.B.–Scott298–I can easily say that you have a "healthy blog" going into 2010. By this I mean you have created a blog that does not only have a ton of great information but you also have a great audience viewing it. When you were unable to help me with my trigger problem on my rws-readers -Fred and Vincent-hoped in to help. Both provided me with great information and Vincent also provided pictures and detailed instructions. Where else can you go and get this type of help from 2 total strangers free of charge! Once again I would like to thank Fred and Vincent for helping out a fellow air gunner and to you for creating this great wealth of information and COOPERATION!


  4. The groups shot with the vogel pellets look really good. What was the ctc spread of those groups?

    And now that we have established the edge will shoot great if you clamp it in a vice, it would be nice to see those same kind of groups shot by a human actually holding the gun.

    I am sure there are some world class 10 meter shooters who could do it?


  5. B.B.,

    Trust that you're taking lots of pictures and hopefully some video.

    I'm the last one that should be giving you advice about the airgun hobby but here goes…..

    Stay out of the casinos since it sounds like we will need every penny of our hard earned money for all the new airgun products hitting the market this year.

    kevin


  6. I gotta admit b.b., you are quite amazing.
    In truth…when people (myself included) started to carp on your initial test of this rifle I would have told them to go piss up a rope.
    But instead you accepted the critiques, changed your methodology and now you have given us something to think (drool) about.
    The Edge is most definitely on my short list now.
    Many thanks.
    A question. As you know I have the 853c. You often mention that cleaning should be done breech to muzzle to avoid damaging the crown.
    Will the Beeman Zip cleaning system work with the 853c?
    There's not a heck of a lot of room when the breech is open to put in much more than a pellet…is there enough room to thread in the roll-up rod this system uses?
    Or do I just use a regular cleaning rod from the muzzle and be veerrryyy careful?
    CowBoyStar Dad



  7. Kevin,

    Actually, when Tom called yesterday, I told him to spend some time in the casinos! We work 7 days a week and have very little free time, so I encourage Tom to enjoy himself whenever possible…go out to eat, have some beers, put some coins in slots, go to shows. The SHOT Show ends on Friday, but Tom's not leaving til Sunday so he can have some more down time.

    Edith


  8. Edith,

    Your the best wife a guy could have!

    And very wise to boot!

    I'm so blessed to have met you both, and joined in here on this blog.. it's a great community.

    It's so clear that you both love each other deeply… I really enjoy watching that from afar.. and up close that once!

    Thank you both!

    Tom, get home safe.. and be blessed along the way..

    and thanks for your gentle reply to our ragging on your first Edge report… I too, would have been telling folks to piss up a rope!..

    You're a far better man than most of us!

    Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range


  9. BB, I'm very impressed with your work on the Edge in this post. You gotta love this blog and you gotta love Edith and Tom! Thanks to you both for all the extra time and effort and how you CARE about what you do.

    BB, I couldn't find where you said how many shots were in your groups. I believe there was a time you said you'd be shooting 10 shot groups during all future tests but I suspect these were all 5 shot groups. But even with 5 shot groups your results were impressive. If they were, indeed, 10 shot groups I will prepare myself for lifting my jaw up off the floor.

    Based on your results and a 5 shot group, it looks like the Edge may be capable of putting at least three shots out of five into the 10 ring. That would be, for me, 18 ten rings on the eMatch target, which is enough for me to beat the guy with the Anshutz 800. (However, he still has nothing to fear from me since I can't use a vise in the match.)

    Thanks again for the Vince Lombardi Second Effort!!!

    Anxious to see the Bronco results.

    -Chuck



  10. Kevin,

    He has a chaperone…his good friend Earl "Mac" McDonald. Actually, Mac is the one who needs a chaperone 24/7! They're watching each other, I guess. In fact, the only reason the both of them play the slot machines is to get free Coronas. For that, they're willing to put a lot of $ into the slots. On average, those "free" beers cost them about $7-10 a bottle. But the important thing is that they're having fun, smiling, laughing & letting their hair down (although neither has very far to go!).

    Edith


  11. Mrs Gaylord,

    Mac's a good guy that helped me immensely last summer.

    Nonetheless, why do these two chaperoning each other remind me of the story of two kittens left in the house all day to entertain each other and keep out of mischief. Although logical the outcome wasn't as hoped.

    I still think they need me as a chaperone. Maybe a valet. Gun bearer?

    kevin


  12. Dear BB:

    Very impressive report. Thanks for your dedication to the sport.

    I have a Daisy 853c which I have owned for 3 years and must have shot at least 10,000 (Crosman) pellets.

    Would you recommend cleaning the barrel? I haven't done so because of the the previous input was that it was not needed and may even damage the barrel.

    After reading your blog I am confused. HELP.

    Thanks again and enjoy your stay in Las Vegas.

    Stingray


  13. Wow! The group shot with the Vogel target pellet with the 4.50mm head diameter is almost as good as my FWB 700. My rough estimate of this group is that it shows a ctc error of around 0.06". That's world class. That's amazing!

    I, for one, would like to see the same tests done with the Challenger 2009. If the Challenger can do the same, then you've got a couple of game changer rifles here.

    Regards,
    Victor


  14. Victor:

    I recently shot a series of 4-shot groups with my Challenger 2009 from a shot bag rest, and got results similar to BB's.

    In fact, in a few cases they were even better (I wish I could post pics in blogger blog comments, but I believe I can't).

    The RWS R10 and H&N Finale Match Pellets did best (no surprise), and the 7 grain R10s posted several groups that well and truly looked like a barely oversized single pellet hole.

    Impressive stuff from both guns.


  15. Trout:

    That's really good to know. I use to compete in smallbore, there's no competition near where I live, so I'll have to go across state to compete. I wanted an air rifle that is most similar to the smallbore rifle that I want to use, so I bought the FWB 700 ALU.

    I originally planned on buying the Challenger before Xmas, but the in-stock date moved 4 times, with the last change pushing it out over at least another week. As soon as that happened, I decided to order the FWB where I knew it was aviable and just ordered.

    At over 2K less, the Challenger looked tempting, and I'm sure I would have been happy with it, but with all of this playing around with dates, I just got frustrated and went with what was going to be my final choice anyways.

    I guess this was meant to be, because the day that Pyramyd pushed the in-stock date out again, I cancelled my order and bought the FWB. Well, after cancelling, the Challenger was suddenly in stock. I didn't take more than a day for it to go from out-of-stock for over another week to in-sock.

    I love my FWB. It's everything that I could ever want in an air-gun, and it will allow me to practice at home until I'm ready to start hitting the ranges in other states with a similar smallbore rifle.

    However, I really liked what I saw in the Challenger. Looks like the best alternative to a high end air rifle, in my opinion. As a target shooter, what matters most is that you don't have to wonder whether a shot is you, or the gun. I don't think you'll have to wonder with the Challenger.

    Another great thing about the Challenger is the fact that it uses a standard rail, so you can use the same accessories (sling, counter weights, bipod, etc.) as you would with smallbore rifle (Anschutz, FWB, etc.).

    So the Challenger is a great gun for practicing at home. In my opinion, it's shape, size, and weight, are best for transitioning to a smallbore rifle, at least in this price range.


  16. B.B.

    Thanks for your efforts. I suspect of all rifle mechanisms, the pre-charged pneumatics is the one where a vice test truly maximizes the potential of the rifle. As I investigate, it seems like any rifle with any recoil is going to react against a rest in a way that a live shooter could compensate for but a rest cannot. But a precharged pneumatic in a vice truly represents the upper limit. To transform from the rested results to those of a live shooter one needs to evaluate the sights, the ergonomics, and the trigger which in this case are clearly top-notch, so I think we can conclude that we have a great rifle. With all the factors of rifle/shooter interface involved, I believe that the most once could say about a comparison between the Edge and the Challenger (perhaps even the FWB) is that they are comparable and great rifles. Regarding the 853, if the Edge and the Challenger both have Lothar Walther barrels, then the one advantage of the 853 seems to have been equaled. Otherwise, every relevant factor–ergonomics, trigger, sights–all look to be significantly inferior. So, in theory, I don't see how the 853 can keep up, but time will tell.

    In the interests of our statistics discussion, I wonder if you could give us a flavor of how much variation you got with your groups. With the gun in a vice, you are eliminating all the complex factors in the rifle shooter/interface. There is still a lot going on since the rifle is a complex mechanism, but a lot less. So, I'm guessing that there should be less variation than with a human shooter (in addition to smaller groups). I never did find the super groups and the aspirin busting that you mentioned, but again based on the statistics discussion, those anecdotes are hard for me to take seriously. For any number of groups less than 30 or thereabouts, you are going to get a lot of variation, so it's easy to pick out a few that make your point.

    The extensive cleaning–as a logistical footprint–gives me pause. One thing I love about airguns it that you never have to clean them. My strategy would just be to shoot them clean. Is there a point (number of rounds) with the Edge and the other rifles beyond which you would no longer need to clean them to get accuracy?

    A last word on the subject of accuracy from Nancy Tompkins at the end of her book. She claims that "just about anything" is accurate up to 300 yards and you don't really start to explore high level accuracy until you go out further. Naturally, this is for high powered rifles, but the implications scaled down to airguns are still interesting.

    Matt61


  17. BB,

    another great blog/job – many lessons learned here today. While you spent an inordinate abount of time on this, I'm sure we all agree it was worth it. I think I'm going to go back to the IZH 46 and run a swab down the barrel (keeping it away from the o-rings or seals at the other end) and then look into some weights for it to try to make it more naturally level for me. I don't want to spackle anymore holes in the sheetrock (two are enough).

    Fred


  18. Scot298,

    tell us what is the current situation with your T05 trigger. What did you ultimately have to do to get it to where you wanted it to be. Someone on this blog can always learn something from others.

    Fred PRoNJ


  19. Kevin,

    Thanks for your response about rust the other day: with concept and details that covers everything.

    Regarding the stock appearance of the Bronco, I think one problem it runs into is that a darker color gives the impression of gravitas that sorts well with the traditional look that many want with a wood stock. Trying to be innovative in a field that favors tradition is a tricky move although it has possibilities. My B30 stock is relatively light and so is my "black walnut" stock for my M1 and I love the looks of both of them.

    Matt61


  20. Hi BB,
    Well, you deserve a break after that shooting session! It sounds like you (and us, thank you) learned something from your test. I have always read not to clean an airgun barrel unless you notice a degregation of groups. Now, I wonder if that is true. I have never had the means to verify such a theory.
    David Enoch


  21. Matt61

    In a response to someone on this blog, BB said something to the effect that most air rifles can be pretty accurate at 10 yards, but to really put them to the test you have to move out to 50 yards, and to weed out the very best out to 100 yards. Not a direct quote but the gist was the same I think. Sounds close to what Ms Tompkins was saying.


  22. BB
    was reading the article "doing strange things with air guns" and i remember in one of the older posts that you mentioned it can be kinda hard to make breech shims for spring guns. Would a .177 pellet be able to shoot through a small round piece of plastic to center the hole in the shim?

    -orozco


  23. I wish you all could come and experience the USFT #92.It arrived today in like new condition!It is a marvelous piece of engineering,purpose built to do one thing,dominate!!!!No one who only digs traditional would ever want one.Anyone who admires performance should beg,borrow,whatever it takes…I'll soon post pictures,comprehensive ones because they are scarce on the internet.I really want to share this one with you all! Frank





  24. FrankB
    Don't make me spend all next week drivin
    'round Hville tryin to find you by listening for the insane
    adolescent giggles of a grown man with
    a new play purty!

    Seriously,congrats on that rifle,hope it serves you well.

    JTinAL


  25. Frank B,

    I am happy for you. Yes, please and thank you for the forth coming pictures and perhaps a guest blog.

    Did I miss the final on your beautiful stock or is it yet to come.

    Mr B.


  26. Hey Frank B,

    I trust that with the USFT you won't be needing to keep a container of spackling compound handy. Congratulations and have fun!

    We patiently await the results of your new toy.

    Fred


  27. Matt61,

    I believe that performance comparisons regarding accuracy and range are strickly true when applied to the correct class of gun, including air-guns.

    I wouldn't expect a 10 meter rifle to perform as well as a field target rifle at 100 yards, and probably not even 50 yards. The pellets for the former are much lighter, while the latter is able to fire heavier pellets at a much higher velocity. I believe I read somewhere, possible from BB, that the lighter pellets shot at the lower velocities start to tumble at around 40 yards.

    On the other hand, at 10 meters, I doubt that the higher power air-guns will shoot any better than a great 10 meter rifle.

    Beyond a certain distance, certain factors, or dynamics, start to kick in which are not addressed in the design of a 10 meter rifle. It could be that the 10 meter rifle will shoot more accurately than a field target rifle at 10 meters, but that over a longer distance the heavier pellet fired by the more powerful rifle will maintain a more stable flight, and because of it's superior inertal properties, provide greater consistency, and thus better accuracy at the longer distance.

    In the end, it seems that the projectiles are "tuned" for performance in thier respective application. For instance, the finest .22 ammo in the world, Eley Tenex, shoots much slower than standard .22 ammo, at around 1100 fps. I've read that possibly every gold medal in world class competition, over many decades, was won using Eley Tenex.

    Great shooting is both an art and a science. I think that BB, and other contributors to this blog, such as yourself, provide insights to both facits.

    Regards,
    Victor


  28. BB

    That's quite an impressive review! You took your time, and it shows your experience. We're lucky you offer both to us.

    I like the Edge a lot, but some guy offered me a Fwb 601 in less than $500, so…

    PS. Here, the Coronas are far cheaper! Consider it in your next vacation schedule

    Anthony


  29. JTinAl,use google earth,you should see my grin from space!I'll Email the adress,save you a little gas…call me any time bro! Fred,no need for spackle…….yet:] Mr B,the stock is still getting the spa treatment….


  30. Frank B.

    Alright dude! … it's a new world ain't it!

    And don't forget to mention "ugly" a lot in your up coming reports.. I'm still trying for Tom and Edith's USFT to join my herd….

    .. it won't be helping much if you're braggin all over the place!… a little ugly.. mixed in will do just fine..

    Notice how Edith loves that "94" ..
    A USFT could not be further from a 94.. so help me out here, and mention how unlike the 94 your USFT is .. often.. very often..

    little by little we will get there..

    Wacky Wayne


  31. I just finished mounting a Bushnell Elite 8x32x40mm…BB was right about the cant making it a challenge…I opened the breech and was able to aim the bottom of the reticule at the center of the breech."dead solid perfect"as Hank Hill would say!Thank you Wacky Wayne for my scope,at least it has been to Ashland Airrifle range!!


  32. I couldn't help noticing while waiting for UPS and searching for anything USFT related that very early on lots of folks were cracking on the looks of the rifle.Then I noticed everyone shutting up as the FT titles began to stack up!!!Wayne,I'll admit it's an acquired taste,kinda like scotch…eh,Kevin and CJr ??


  33. Frank B,

    Congratulations on the USFT #92! Nice piece of glass you put on top of that machine.

    The elite 4200's will spoil you especially in dim light. Tougher to acquire a full sight picture but I'm convinced that this helps with a repeatable cheek weld.

    Although the USFT's started out purpose built I can't help but admire the hunting carbine versions. If there was an FT range nearby I would be sorely tempted.

    kevin


  34. Victor,

    Don't think you'll regret the purchase of your FWB 700 ALU. I've never owned one but have read the buzz. Fantastic looking gun to my eyes.

    I'm looking forward to hearing about your courtship and progress with one of the finest target guns made.

    kevin




  35. Kevin,Tim at MAC-1 has shipped me a Benchrest setup to go on her,for only 100$.Dirt cheap for custom parts!A couple months and he will have me a .22 barrel w/LDC,harmonically tuned by him.Kevin,what do you know about Shepperd scopes?I have the first model with first and second focal plane reticules.the first focal plane has FOUR selectable reticules for different BDC's to 1000 yds and rings that rangefind.The best part is the optics are Hakko-Seki Japan!


  36. Frank B,

    You've now passed the point of no return. I can sense the giddiness and suspect that you will be occasionally uttering tones in a dialect known as Waynespeak.

    I appreciate your taste in the few airgun purchases you've been kind eoung to reveal. The parts from Tim Mcmurray will undoubtedly be first rate.

    Can't help you with Shepperd scopes. Way out of my league.

    kevin


  37. I mis spelled Shepherd,but they are certainly interesting.I wish I had a long range powderburner to go with mine.anyone interested check out their site,they have a good video!popping balloonsat 50,100,150 and 200 yards without adjustment of the scope,exploding landmines,etc…


  38. Frank B
    The boy's will be turning green when you
    take that puppy to Big Orange Country
    for the FT meets up there:)
    You need to tone down that grin a bit,
    I thought there was a full moon in the
    North East earlier.Don't forget to help
    Sir Wacky out by pointing out the
    terrible lines and unusual looks when
    you post about it.:)Great news about Tim
    at Mac1 parts.I've haven't dealt with him
    yet but he has an A1 no B.S. rep.
    Now I hope you've got some indoor target
    space cause we're gonna be wet here for
    the next few days and it could drive
    you a little batty waiting if you don't.

    I'll send along my land line info so you
    can brag in person whenever you get the
    urge:)

    To all:
    I just read that Scott Brown won in
    Mass.Could be we're seeing the
    beginnings of a turning tide.At least I
    can hope.

    JTinAL


  39. Hi Kevin,

    No I don't expect to have any regrets with my FWB. I used an FWB decades ago with great success. They were amazingly accurate back then, but are not as sophisticated and polished as the newer models.

    Unfortunately, I won't be able to shoot my FWB until next Monday, when the weather is expected to permit the filling of my scuba tank. It's raining here, and I'm told that this will introduce unwanted moisture ito the tank.

    For those who don't know, after you get a scuba tank, it needs to be inspected, certified, and then filled. So the first shot at having a useable PCP system will cost around $50.00. After that, it's $5.00 per refill. After five years, it needs to be inspected again. Another thing to consider is whether there is someone in town who can service your scuba tank. Where I live, there are only two places.

    I was told by two dealers that hand pumps are bad for PCP guns, because they introduce moisture. On the other hand, compressed air is very high quality and completely dry. This is suppose to extend the life of the PCP gun.

    Also, compressors, not intended for scuba tanks will introduce both moisture and oil to the tank.

    The more practical reason for buying a PCP target rifle is that it eliminates the need to pressurize the gun during a match, by exerting yourself, and thus allowing the shooter to maintain a consistent position.

    It was hard for me to choose between the 700 and the 603. The FWB 603 is easily cocked and doesn't require a scuba tank. On the other hand, it's less like the free-style smallbore rifles that I plan to use in the near future.

    I had originally decided on the Challenger 2009 as a practice gun, because it's got a lot of very nice attributes. I still like it, but decided on the FWB because it was in-stock, and because it is very similar to the smallbore freestyle rifles that I plan to use in the next year or two.

    There aren't any smallbore rifle matches in my town, so I'll have to go out of state to compete. The FWB will allow me to practice in my home. I think it will take me a year or two to get good enough to start competing again.

    More importantly, my daughter has shown an interest in shooting with me, and she's demonstrated a greater aptitude and potential than me in a lot of things. We're going to have a blast!

    Happy Shooting!
    Victor


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