Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 – Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

Today, we’ll begin testing the Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100 for accuracy. And we’re going to do this differently than usual. Because we have many new readers to this blog, I’m going to explain how I do accuracy testing in greater detail than usual. Sort of a chance for you to look over my shoulder. Hopefully this will help the newer shooters get a grasp of what’s involved in airgun accuracy, so this accuracy report will take more than a single report to complete.

Adjust the trigger
As I begin, I think about the gun I’m about to test. What do I know about it? Well, The Benjamin Trail XL 1100 is based on the Crosman Nitro Piston Short Stroke, and I did some testing of that rifle. During that testing, I discovered that the NPSS has a wonderful, adjustable trigger. One of our readers commented just a couple days ago that his accuracy improved after he adjusted his NPSS trigger, so I’m going to adjust the Trail XL trigger right now. According to the blog I wrote on the NPSS trigger, I need to unscrew the one adjustment screw several turns to make stage two light and crisp.

Sad to report that there is very little joy in Mudville today. The trigger on the Benjamin Trail XL 1100 may resemble the one on the NPSS rifle, but it doesn’t adjust as well. It does adjust, but the second stage is mushy and imprecise. Not at all what I reported on the NPSS. However, I got it as good as it would go, which was better than when I started. It releases with 5 lbs., 2 oz. of pressure, which sounds like a lot. However, because of how the trigger works, you’ve subtracted all but the final 2 lbs. by the time you release it.

Clean the barrel
I had my Remington 788 .30-30 out last week and shot some remarkably mediocre 50-yard groups with Remington factory ammo. Factory ammo is usually lacking in accuracy, but a two-inch, five-shot group at 50 yards is a little excessive. Yesterday, I cleaned the barrel and removed a ton of copper fouling. Way more fouling than would have been left by the 20 rounds I fired. So, the rifle was dirty before I started the session. To ensure that I don’t make the same mistake with the Benjamin Trail, I’ll clean the bore with J-B Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound.

As a recap–I was told about this by Ben Taylor, who is the Ben in Theoben. He told me to clean the bore of my Beeman Crow Magnum with J-B Paste by passing a brass brush loaded with paste through the barrel 20 times in each direction. I’m not normally anal, but after the success I had after cleaning that rifle, I’m saying to count the number of strokes. Twenty times in each direction, starting from the breech, of course. Then remove all the residue and the bore should not only be sparkling clean, it will also be smoothed as though you had shot 500 pellets through it. Don’t worry–a brass brush will not harm a steel barrel, and J-B paste is used by benchrest shooters all the time.

Normally, the first 10 passes are extremely tight, then things loosen up. That never happened with this barrel. Pass 20 was as tight as pass four. The first couple passes did loosen up just a little, but at the end of the cleaning I was still pushing hard on the rod to get the brush through the bore.

Check the screws
I do a once around the rifle to check all the stock screws for tightness. Because this rifle has a gas spring, I don’t expect the screws to loosen very much, but it’s always best to go into a test with everything right.

Mount the scope
We’re blessed when we come to mounting the scope because Crosman has put Weaver bases on the rifle, so there will be no mounting problems. The Centerpoint 3-9×40 was almost correctly set in the rings, but not quite. After the two-piece rings were cinched down tight, I loosened the scope caps and rotated the scope tube until the vertical reticle seemed to bisect the receiver tube perfectly. There’s nothing square on an airgun, or a firearm, for that matter, so trying to “level” the scope is a completely fruitless affair. There’s nothing to level it with. You rotate the scope tube until it looks straight up and down to you. Someone else may disagree, but you’re the one who will be shooting the gun, so that’s all that matters.

Pick some pellets
Someone asked the other day how I knew which pellets to select for which guns. Well, it’s simpler than it might seem. First, I know that a large number of pellets are not going to be the best in almost every airgun, so they seldom get selected. I only pick them when I can’t seem to get anything else to work.

The other side is that there are known performers that almost always get picked. JSB Exacts, with the particular weights depending on the gun. This is a powerful springer, which means that it has the same power as a lower-powered PCP, with one important difference. Springers hit the pellet skirt with a heavy blast of air at the start, so the pellet needs thicker-walled skirts to not deform. At 25 foot-pounds, the Benjamin Trail XL is about as hard on pellet skirts as it gets. Think about using .22-caliber Crosman Premiers because they have really tough skirts. Think about using H&N Baracudas because they have a heavy skirt. Think of the heavier JSBs for their heavier skirts. Definitely DO NOT think RWS Superpoints that have ultra-thin skirts made of dead-soft lead. Their skirts would be deformed badly by the powerful air blast from the Nitro Piston.

So, I selected Baracudas (which are the same as Beeman Kodiaks), JSB Exact Jumbo Heavies (which weigh 18.1 grains) and JSB Exacts (which weigh 15.8 grains). Let’s see where that gets us.

Use the artillery hold
I’ve had several readers recently discover the benefits of the artillery hold. That’s when the rifle is held as loosely as possible so it can move and vibrate as much as it wants. While it seems counter-intuitive, such a hold will improve your shooting in 98 percent of the situations. Read about it here.

Kevin added something in an answer to a reader question the other day that I need to emphasize more. When you’re shooting, align the crosshairs or sights–then close your eyes and relax. Open your eyes again. If the crosshairs moved off the target, the pellet would have moved in the same direction if you’d fired. Learn to settle in so the crosshairs are still on target when you open your eyes. That assists your follow-through, which is what this is all about. It works for firearms, too, though heavy-recoiling guns need a firmer hold than what I’ve described.

Sight-in
Here’s where you and I will go in separate directions. You want to hit the target. I don’t care. What I want to see is if the pellets tend to go to the same place. If they do, a sight adjustment may be needed to get them on target, but that’s a separate step. I won’t be doing anything with this gun other than making groups we can examine. If I were then going to shoot it afterwards, I would care about aligning the sights.

That bothers some people to no end. If they don’t see the groups in the center of the bullseye, they think the gun is inaccurate. My brother-in-law feels that way. I can move the groups to where they’ll look good with the sights or with Photoshop if I have to. So, hitting the center of the bullseye isn’t something I even care about. But you should, because you will be using this gun to hit things. Don’t let my testing affect your shooting.

And that’s where I’ll end it today. I’ve walked you through preparing to shoot, so next time I’ll show you the results of that.

111 thoughts on “Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 – Part 3

  1. Good Morning B.B.,

    A new blog, a hot fresh cup of coffee, Fox and Friends in the back ground, what a great way to start another day!

    I never thought about the difference in the thickness of the pellets skirts being that much of a variable in pellet accuracy. Food for the brain–thanks.

    Mr B.


  2. Morning, Mr. B.,

    Yes, skirt thickness is very important for some springers. For the Hakim, for instance, which is a taploader, the RWS Superpoint skirt blows out in the tap to enter the breech perfectly. It's the best pellet I've ever found for that model.

    Back in the '90s some airgunners did experiments with springers, shooting pellets into water to preserve them. The damage to thin skirts was obvious and gross.

    B.B.


  3. B.B
    Excess pressure for pellet design makes sense. I have seen pictures posted on a different forum of pellets that had nearly half of the skirt blown out into the rifling.
    I have seen a few of my own from detonation..the pellets were blown into a cylindrical shape.

    Does your brother in law shoot airguns? It sounds like he is desperately attempting to find proof of something.

    twotalon


  4. Twotalon,

    My brother-in-law is a funny guy. When he learned that I wrote about guns for a living he became very interested in them. I gave him a nice Hakim I fixed up and he shot it for awhile, but I think the interest has waned.

    However, when he comes to my house we try to get out to my rifle range, where I let him sample several of my firearms. I think he is curious, but not really a shooter.

    B.B.


  5. BB: I'm following your blog on the Benjamin with great interest. I still want a .25 cal springer, and have now narrowed the choice done to this, when it becomes available in .25. Or the Walther Falcon Hunter with the nitro piston. I want to be able to get decent power with hunting (squirrels) accuracy with the medium weight pellets in .25. What I have noticed is that the Walther now has a different stock design and the SAS ,shock absorbing system. Have you or any of the others had any experience with the newer Wather, and this SAS system?
    FWIW, My Remington 788 in .222 is also sensitive to copper fouling.It is a tack driver though with some loads. I also have a Savage 340 series .222 ,of about the same vintage,that may be more accurate than the Remington. Both were inexpensive rear locking bolt actions. The Savage was also available in 30-30, and I see them turn up at shows here in upstate NY often. Personally,I like the way the Remington stock is shaped better than the Savage, and it handles better for me. Take care, Robert


  6. Robert,

    No, I haven't seen the latest Walther Falcon Hunter with gas spring. But I do know that the gas spring changes the behavior of the rifle in a big way.

    I am as excited about the Benjamin Trail in .25 as you are. Of course the new 27-grain Premier pellet may add to the excitement.

    I debated about getting a Savage 340/840, which also exists as a Stevens and maybe a couple of others. I had a .22 Hornet Stevens 225 for a brief time and it seemed like a nice rifle.

    I'm about to free-float the barrel on the 788 to see what kind of change that makes. And of course the barrel is now squeaky clean, so that should make a difference, as well.

    I really love messing around with these old guns!

    B.B.


  7. HI BB–

    2 Things. Is the noise low? Lower than a Crosman 1077?

    Someday, I'd love you to do an article on your own collection of airguns. Just take some pictures and give us an overview. I know you've talked about individual airguns you own, but i'd love to see the group and what they mean relative each other. Maybe a bit about how historically the group came together.

    Thanks much!
    rob


  8. Great article. I've bookmarked this one.

    This Accuracy Testing Checklist is something I need to be able to refer back to occasionally.

    Although B.B. says in the Sight-in paragraph, "Here's where you and I will go in separate directions. You want to hit the target." I can't imagine initially sighting in so your poa matches your poi.

    Initially doesn't everyone adjust their scope/sights so the pellets don't wipe out your bullseye/poa? If you obliterate your aimpoint how can you determine what the best pellet is in your gun?

    kevin


  9. BB, My father also had a Savage/ Stevens in .22 Hornet, the one with the butter knife bolt handle. It was a supposed to have been a surplus air force pilot's survival gun. He bought it from Kleins of Chicago,back in the early fifties. That is what they advertised them as, from what I remember of what he told me. Klein's were one of the big mail order surplus gun and sporting goods retailers around back then.
    As a kid, I shot a gazillion woodchucks with his gun ,mostly with factory loads, and those usually were Remingtom soft points, bought at the gun shop we lived next to. I would walk over there and the owner would tease me when I would ask for a box of the Hornet ammo. He would ask me why I didn't want Bee's, and if I knew what they were. Dad's Savage Hornet only had a Tasco 4x scope on it.I once killed a chuck at just under 200 yards with it, in front of a witness. Suprised me , as much as the bystander and of course the chuck as well.
    I know what you mean about guns. I have and have had a lot, but it is fun messing with the old and especially the odd ones. I have both that Remington and the Savage in .222 just to compare them to each other ,as they were meant to fill the same role. That's how I have learned about guns. I like to shoot them all ,and the hell with the collectability or value of any of them. Robert.


  10. The Savege 340 series is fairly accurate. I have one of the last series made in .22 Hornet. It produces 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards. Not as nice as my Ruger ; but quite acceptable with a cartridge used at 200 yards max. I have often seen the various Savage bolt action 30-30's in shops and at shows. Never happened to shoot one.


  11. B.B. thanks for the info on the T4 OPS. But do you think it is to fragile for occasional use. I am also very careful with the handling of my pistols. Or are you saying that it is just plain poorly built and nothing can be done to compensate for that. I always thought Crosman had a good build quality? Thanks


  12. BB, now you’ve done it! You’ve actually encouraged people to clean their airgun barrels. The sacrilege and heresy you spread via your blog. Haven’t you been reading the forums, everybody whose anybody knows that airgun barrels are “dead” soft steel, and anything harder than a pure lead pellet ruins the barrel.
    Ben Taylor, with his 30 years of airgun experience couldn’t possibly know what he’s talking about. You probably wore out the choke and crown, and removed all the rifling in one swift action. Since you obviously ruined the rifle regardless of the groups it will shoot, I will volunteer to take it off your hands for free!
    Nathan


  13. Kevin,

    I'm away from my 54 at the moment– do you happen to remember what the separation of the screw holes in the butt pad is? And on the 350 (just in case)?

    The plate for the Bisley adjustable butt pad has a 96 mm separation, and the Morgan 80. I want to avoid plugging holes if possible. I had asked ajvenom which one he prefers (the Bisley I think) but he seems to have vanished for the moment.

    Thanks,
    AlanL




  14. Robert,

    Stop it! You are intriguiging me.

    I know where there is an affordable .222 Savage 340 nearby and I have been resisting it.

    When I was i Germany in the 1970s I hunted the roe deer with a .222 Sako Mannlicher. My longest kill was 225 yards at 5 in the morning. We sat in high seats in trees and watched as the deer moved in the mornings and evenings. All of our shots were directed towards the ground, which is why there are few hunting accidents in Germany.

    At any rate, I really enjoy the .222 Remington round.

    B.B.



  15. Nathan,

    How ironic that you would lecture me about not cleaning an airgun barrel. That was what I used to do.

    But I have discovered that a cleaning like this will "season" a barrel that's brand-new. You will see tomorrow if it worked.

    B.B.


  16. AlanL,

    I'm sorry but I don't remember the screw spacing on the RWS 54. I can tell you that I installed a curved morgan adjustable on mine and had to drill and sand to make it fit. They all need to be filed/sanded to fit as you know.

    I think the main difference between morgan and bisley adjustables are that the bisley's have pimples between the plates that provide a more positive "lock up" when adjusted.

    The morgan worked fine for me though. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

    kevin



  17. B.B.,

    Not my wedding anniversary (I don't think). Oh boy, need to check.

    Not sure what anniversary AlanL is referring to but the thought is greatly appreciated.

    Danielle is out of her walking cast and began physical therapy last week. We do her exercises before dinner every night and she can already outrun me. Although not much of a feat it proves how well she's doing.

    Thanks for your concern and thank you so much for the prayers.

    kevin


  18. Kevin,

    I tried to pull a Holmes and blew it. On the other blog you said, "Need to talk to the "boss". Reminds me, I need to buy some flowers today."

    I put two and two together and came up with five!

    I'm very glad Danielle's doing better– I'd been waiting for another update from you but figured I'd wait a bit longer before asking. I'm glad B.B. did.

    I haven't forgotten I committed to a case of cookies from her- and a promise made is a promise kept- how about half and half, the lemon something and the chocolate coconut crunch, whatever they're called? Can she do that? Man will I be popular around the office in the coming days… Email me and I'll PayPal you on the spot.

    -AlanL


  19. BB,

    I do think you should make it clear that JSB shouldn't be used every time you shoot your air rifle:). That copper fouling sounds like a rough bore. JSB and then a break-in procedure might help. Is it fouling ahead of the chamber or all the way down the barrel? I had a little trouble with my savage .30-06 fouling, esp. right at the lead-in, but a good cleaning and a more careful break-in seems to have made it better. Also, don't trust your scope — I also wasted time worrying about fouling when it was the scope that was screwed up:)!

    Nathan's comment was funny. Rifle barrels are so delicate — just a stray hair brushed across the crown can ruin it:). I was never that nervous about it, but having seen what a BP/ML rifle goes through as a matter of course has made me even less worried about extra brush strokes and the like:).

    Kevin,
    Glad to hear your daughter is getting better.


  20. Does anybody out there in Blogville know how to secure the forearm stock screws on a Webley (Turkish) Tomahawk .177 cal? I tighten them with an Allen wrench and they loosen up after ~15-20 shots. It is playing havoc with my accuracy.


  21. Damn, cleaning barrels Nathan makes me want to stay away from that.

    On another note: Here in GA They are trying to pass some new gun laws. First of all let me say that I know we all like guns I know that, but they purpose that: Guns should be allowed on college campuses, in churches, in bars etc. I like guns. The thing is there is minimal requirements for obtaining a license and no training required. Guns are a dangerous weapon, just like a vehicle. Shouldn't there be some type of licensing requirement for "real" firearms? The hypothetical situation they mentioned on the news was: A college student does like his/her grade stands up in the middle of class shoots the professor, another student jumps up in reaction and starts shooting. Where does it end? Like I said before I'm all for guns but how do we control this? Any ideas? Or do we all just shoot each other?


  22. BB,
    I got my paper rolls at either Office Depot or Office Max. They came in a pack of 12 rolls for $10.

    My biggest concern is finding the printer ribbon when mine gets used up.

    If you can't find any rolls with plastic spools let me know and I'll send you one to see if it fixes the problem.

    -Chuck




  23. generalgau,

    Two ideas:

    You could use a Belleville washer, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belleville_washer
    These will keep a constant pressure on your screws and are high quality.

    Do not use ordinary split ring or star type lock washers.

    Or, use a drop of Loctite 242.
    (Be sure to use the Medium Strength, Never the High Strength 262 or 272, or you'll never get the screw out again without destroying the stock.)

    -AlanL


  24. rikib,

    I'm sure that you understood Nathan's sarcasm.

    Some airgun barrels don't need cleaning ever. But cleaning a new barrel with jb bore paste, as B.B. did, shortens the break in period.

    kevin





  25. Rikib,

    Your reasoning sounds good, but it doesn't work that way in the real world. Here in Texas, where concealed carry is legal, we have a very low rate of crimes like the mad customer walking into a MacDonalds and opening fire. That happens in California, where carrying guns is illegal.

    Virginia enacted concealed carry laws about a decade ago and their violent crime rate plummeted.

    Having guns doesn't mean using them. And, with the right training, people are less likely to use a gun than not.

    Are you aware that even when a person uses a gun to defend themselves they are subject to a protracted court battle? The average cost for using a handgun is around 50K is what we were taught in our concealed carry class.

    So do a little reading on this and you'll be surprised at what you find.

    B.B.




  26. B.B.

    How does the Benjamin Legacy SE stack up against something like the Beeman R7? I've been looking for something fairly accurate and easy to cock.

    Bub


  27. Bub,

    The Legacy SE is a much larger rifle than an R7, but cocking is just as easy. The noise is very low and the firing impulse is also very sweet. It's like a well-tuned R7.

    The R7 is smaller and has the better trigger, but the Legacy SE is really pretty close. Of course the Legacy SE is only available in .22 caliber.

    B.B.


  28. This may seem a strange question but what actually determines the muzzle velocity of a .177 pellet. When fired from a co2 airgun what causes a difference between 430 fps and 700 fps. I think most of you out there must be physics majors. If I'm using the same co2, same pellet, basically same barrel length, why are some pistols rated at up to 200 fps higher? Sorry for being stupid but I'm confused.


  29. BB,
    With you 788, were you using new Remington ammo? I have been a fan of Remington factory loads for many years, but have noticed a huge drop in quality in the past few years, especially this one. I've noticed that not only are their bullets not seated consistently, but they're not even formed consistently. Their PSP ammo sometimes has a millimeter of lead sticking out the tip, while others in the same box don't have any lead protruding at all. Their cases are not consistently crimped and are more often than not dirty and dented. I've noticed this with multiple calibers and lot numbers. I've also done some counting and have noticed roughly a 5% dead primer rate with their bulk rimfire ammo, and about 1-2% with centerfire. I haven't torn apart any rounds to look at powder charges but it wouldn't surprise me if there were out of spec differences between rounds in the same lot.

    I've started testing cheap Winchester Super-X ammo, and so far everything had been good. Accuracy is better than current Remington and I haven't had any malfunctions.

    A 2 inch group at 50 yards is really bad for a hunting rifle and it could be explained by a dirty bore, but from what I've seen at the range lately with Remington ammo, I would almost expect that.


  30. rikib

    re: Velocity

    "why are some pistols rated at up to 200 fps higher?"

    The pellets have no velocity rating but… they do have weight (mass) shape and a ballistic efficiency (how they behave or move through the air)

    The Co2 rifle or pistol using the pellets has a barrel length, valve size, transfer port or orifice size, a valve length or timing, a valve or hammer spring and more.

    All of these components in concert with the pellet selection = velocity. Oh… and for Co2, there is the air temperature factor too.

    I'm not a physics major, just a humble M.E. but that's my take on velocity with Co2 guns.

    Brian in Idaho


  31. mechredd,
    Good call on the Winchester SuperX's. I haven't noticed any problems with Rem. C/F, but it was hard to get for a while here. I reluctantly bought boxes of Winchester, and as you found, it is at least as good, and maybe better.


  32. B.B.
    i just feel that if we need to go through training to operate a motor vehicle, we should at least have to go though some sort of training for carrying a firearm. I feel there needs to be more extensive background checks before guns are sold to people and as I said training. In some states laws are tighter on knifes than they are on guns, but I digress I love my knives.


  33. mechredd,

    Yes, I was using new Remington pointed soft points. Like you I have noticed that Remington ammo has gone to hell. Rimfire ammo made by them isn't up to third-world standards anymore.

    I shoot them to get the cases, which are still okay. Like most shooters, I shop the sales, though Remington has recently scammed me several times with "rebates" that are impossible to obtain. So maybe I will switch to other brands.

    I shop at ammunitiontogo.com, where the best buys can be had.

    B.B.


  34. RikiB,

    I agree with you that a safety course by an NRA trained instructor or equivalent, should be manadatory for anyone wanting to buy their first firearm – rifle or pistol. I believe BB has stated a number of times that when he and his wife obtained their concealed carry permits, they had to qualify and take courses there in Texas.An excellent dea, I believe. Something I doubt will ever happen here in the People's Republic of NJ.

    Fred PRoNJ


  35. Good stuff BB,
    When you said tighten the screws, that reminded me that my rws 34 is constantly needing those screws tightened. I tried some medium lock tight with little luck. Are we just stuck with all of that? Any permanent fix? Mike


  36. Oh Boy………. here we go with gun rights topics!

    1) U.S. Constitution / 2nd Amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms.

    2) State and Municipal laws/codes allow (in some states/municipalities)the right to carry a weapon in a concealed manner.

    The Constitution does not require a background check or training to own a firearm. A very clear cut right afforded to U.S. citizens by the founding fathers.

    State and municipal governments can make (or not) any rules and laws deemed necessary regarding concealed carry permits and required training.

    Here in Idaho, you can buy and take home your pistol as soon as the cash-register stops clicking. CCW permits are granted in less than two weeks by local Sherrifs offices. The State Attorney General has a "warning" to local officials on the permit application as follows… "all due consideration shall be given to this application barring any legal reason to not approve and issue the requested permit."

    Glad I'm here and not NJ, NY and CT

    Brian in Idaho


  37. B.B.

    I've always admired the Remington 788–didn't realize that they chambered it for 30-30. I wonder if Remington is starting to go downhill. The Remington 700 no longer has quite the luster it once had. Now their ammo is deteriorating….

    All, on the subject of cleaning a bore, you can just shoot it clean which is my preferred method. It's fun and doesn't pose any risk to the muzzle.

    Kevin, glad your daughter is doing better. Keep her at the physical therapy. My right ACL was destroyed a couple years ago, and it took protracted and diligent effort to get it back.

    Brian, sounds like you're living in a different country than me (California). With multiple trips for background checks and waiting periods, I need to add hundreds of dollars to the price of any new firearm that I buy.

    Matt61


  38. Brian, I don't think that requiring some modicum level of training is against constitutional principles. What IS against those principles is the idea that 'by default, you are not allowed to carry unless you can give us a good reason why we should let you'. Constitutionally the reasoning should be 'you WILL be allowed to carry unless we've got a good reason to not allow it'.

    Rikb, is a shooter more or less likely to open fire if he/she knows that there's a fair chance someone is going to be shooting back? And if the shooter is suicidal, as i stands they have the opportunity of continuing to shoot and kill until they encounter one of the few people (security or police) who CAN shoot back.

    Your example was a good one. You ask 'Where does it end?'. The answer is this: it ends right there, and probably fairly quickly.

    One more thing to consider… the spate of school shootings demonstrates that those bent on breaking the law are, well, not shy about… well, breaking the law. Your hypothetical disgruntled student will still be able to bring in a gun to shoot his teacher, law or no law.


  39. Eureka!

    My Air Arms TX200 first started acting up while/after firing a light JSB pellet. It is possible I damaged the skirt with my thumbnail as I pushed the pellet into the barrel, which I always try not to do.

    My accuracy went south at an exponential rate from that point on. Also the rifle was vibrating, and twanging, and harsh. TX200s don't do this. The harshness went away slowly, to a smaller but still very noticeable degree.

    So the 'feel' of the rifle went from horrible to barely tolerable, (for a TX.) The accuracy however, went from a little off, to "Holy $h!+, what is up with this cr@P?!!"

    BB graciously did a report on how to disassemble the rifle after reading the post I made about my troubles with TeX. He also made it painfully obvious that even a drunken monkey with a ball-peen hammer could do it. This gave me the confidence to actually try it, as that is my actual mechanical skill level.

    The (partial) strip down revealed nothing obvious. The mainspring wasn't quite straight, but I was assured this was normal.

    I had resolved to ship her off to the celebrated but humble Vince, frequent contributor to this blog, to work his magic.

    I decided to put it back together before sending it off, and check the accuracy. Alas, some drama this past week had me delaying the project, not wanting any reason to go from DEFCON 2 to DEFCON 1.

    Finally, I decided a couple of days ago to get it over with. The strip-down allowed me to look down the barrel without a borelight, which for some reason I hadn't already done, and behold! Huge flecks of lead all in the barrel.

    So I removed the cocking link, which allowed me to remove the compression tube (which also contained lead shavings.) I then proceeded to clean the barrel using the aforementioned JB's nebcc with a brass brush and Dewey rod.

    The strip down allowed me to clean it from breech to muzzle, which is the only way I would try it on this rifle, as I didn't want to mess up the crown. I ran some simple-green coated patches through afterward, and then dry patches until they were clean.

    Then I noticed something else.

    There is a rubber bumper that protects the barrel shroud from the end of the cocking lever scratching it. In my humble opinion it is inadequate. I plugged the hole left by the gnarled piece of rubber that fell out with a set screw and loctited it. I may have adjusted the screw after the loctite had dried, compromising the bond. It had worked it's way up into the barrel!

    What I am guessing happened, is that the initial vibration caused by what I think was an exploding JSB must have jarred the set screw loose, which allowed it to migrate north. I added a liberal amount of loctite and put it back in to its lower position.

    Then I lovingly put TeX back together after removing all the old lube and then reapplying new moly disulfide grease.

    The accuracy improved immeasurably, and even the POI was back to where it was before. It is still just a tad off from what it was, as far as accuracy is concerned. My one hole groups are a bit more ragged now.

    I'm thinking of sending it to Vince anyway, as I understand he'd really like to get his paws on one;^)

    This just goes to show me that I can't miss a day on this blog. Do I ever plan on getting a Benjamin Trail NP XL1100? No. But look at what I learned from reading anyway. I hadn't even considered that the thinner, softer, possibly damaged or deformed skirt of the JSB pellet caused the whole fiasco. Until that pellet I had been using 7.9grn Premiers exclusively for perhaps 500 rounds.

    Special thanks to Tom and Vince both for helping me.(to get some sleep at night!)

    Vince: when time allows, I'm going to do additional testing and adjusting. If I'm not 100% satisfied with the results, I would still like to send it to you, if that's ok.


  40. generalgau, I've had reasonably goot luck with the Vibratite VC3 mentioned by Kevin, and also with a good grade of serrated washer, such as mcmaster #91120A160. Incidentally, mcmaster also carries the Vibratite as #75145A69.

    Vibratite relies on friction, and is applied to the external threads – and allowed to set – before assembly. It doesn't have to adhere to the internal threads like regular Locktite, so I think is works better if the internal threads aren't super-clean.


  41. Vince

    Correcto-Mucho!

    The Bill of Rights and The Amendments to The Constitution basically do not confer rights upon us, those documents basically tell the govt what they CAN NOT DO in abridging our rights ie "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged."

    Fully agree with you about CCW not being restricted by or even addressed by the constitution or 2nd amendment.Unfortunately for us, in Jefferson's day, a pocket pistol was the norm and I don't think the fathers ever though of it otherwise?

    Shows you what 200 + years of constitutional erosion has done for us.

    Had my CCW for over 20 years. Have never had to "use" it and have talked my way around use during three justifiable uses during that time(with hand on pistol-grip ready to go if the talking failed). Only one occasion was directed at me, the other two were innocents who needed some help from wannabe gangstas. But enough about Detroit…

    Brian in Idaho


  42. Brian

    I hope you were only kidding about living in Detroit. It is a horrible, ugly, dirty, mean place. That is why they have the best hockey players.

    You are right on point about the Constitution. Sadly, the fundamental rights that our country was founded for are an abstract concept to those we pay through the tooth to represent us legislative, executive, and judicial.

    "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —"

    That sounds like crazy right winger talk huh? Actually its a cut and paste from the Declaration of Independence. Weird.

    WV: resses. Like the dark resses of my mind.


  43. Rikib,

    Every state that has a concealed carry permit requires training before the license is issued. It takes many hours of classroom work, followed by a lengthy written test and a shooting test.

    B.B.



  44. I hope everyone took my comments to BB in jest the way I intended them to be. If you mention on some internet forums you clean your air gun barrels, certain people would just assume run you outta town on a rail. I've always been a "cleaner" and I know some people have never touched their barrels once. Hey to each their own. But I will take that rifle off your hands BB, and I'll even split the shipping costs with you LOL

    Nathan


  45. Nathan.

    I understood your joke, but Edith didn't think I did. So she informed me you were just joking.

    Sure I'll send you the rifle. Just go wait out by your mailbox and it will come to you very soon.

    B.B.


  46. BB

    GA only requires an application through the county probate court. This includes a GBI check. The fee is like $40 or $60. They are required to accept or deny the application within a 60 day period.

    No training classes are required. I do have mixed feelings about that but, to me owning something as dangerous as a firearm it's a given you should be well versed in safety, and know darn well how to use it and when. Those that don't, do so at their own peril, and our existing laws should deal with them accordingly. Sadly our current court system seems to enable and protect the predators and put the victims on trial.

    BB

    I had a hunch Nathan was kidding, but wasn't sure if you did or not from your reply. I tried to put myself in your place and found your response to be diplomatic and self-effacing. Well done.


  47. Slinging Lead,

    Well, I stand corrected! Thank you. I was under the impression that a concealed carry permit required training in every state. It does in Texas and I'm glad for it, because they explained all the laws and situations in which deadly force may be used.

    In Texas we have a castle doctrine, and I can not only shoot someone who breaks into my house or car, I can also shoot them for breaking into my neighbor's home, as well. That's helpful as we have some trouble going on at the present and we are watching a house for a neighbor.

    B.B.


  48. For the sake of that "trouble" element, I hope they have second thoughts about it. I hear Edith has a real light trigger pull on that Glock of hers, and not ashamed to use it!;^)


  49. b.b., I've mentioned recently that I've aquired an Xisico XS-B9. It is there sidelever bullpup that replaced my Crosman Nightstalker once it finally started to chew through Airsource cylinders.
    Anyhooo, if you're at all familiar with it it is a 'crackdown' rifle. The barrel assembly screws into the body of the gun with big knurled screw. It remains good and tight for about 30 shots but then will loosen and accuracy drops off. Give it a good reef and all is back to normal.
    Here's my question. I don't really need the 'crackdown' feature…it's not like I'm trying to sneak it past anyone.
    Would I be fool to put some blue LocTite on the threads of the barrel assembly?
    CowBoyStar Dad



  50. Rikib: I live in NY and have a handgun permit. Have had one for nearly 30 years now. There's a lot of hoops to jump through to get one. Your anolgy of the classroom full of armed students made me think back to when I was in school. When I was in high school we had a rifle team and a trap shooting club. We didn't have a rifle range and we would go to a neighboring school that did, to shoot. I used to bring my cased, un-loaded , target rifle and shotgun to school on the public school bus. So did the other team members. No ammo, as it was provided at the range through the DCM. There never was a problem, not ever. None of us wanted to kill any of our classmates or teachers. I might add that this was in the early 1970's, at a private school in a tough steel town neighborhood, and I rode the local bus and had to wear a uniform. I was constantly harassed by the local humps for that, and I dreaded that bus ride. But, I NEVER wanted to kill one of them. Point being, I'm sick of the notion that the mere presence of a firearm should elict general public fear. Or that firearms owners are potential terrorists. What we should worry about in society today has more to do with a lack of tolerence and responsibility towards our kids & each other.
    BB , just go buy the Savage, life is short, and I know you will get a great deal as everyone knows those rear locking bolts are not accurate! The .222 Rem is like a .22 cal .30-06. Or,if you want some real temptation, I can oblige, seeing as how you like old iron. I've got a 1952 Ford 8N , one of the last made. Also a International Super C, with implements. Either could fit in a suburban garage. Robert


  51. Slinging Lead – You're right about Detroit on both counts, but more so about the hockey players!! Of course most of our players are born in Sweden, so what does that tell ya?

    I know Michigan has a mandatory class and test to get your CCW. Not really sure all that it entails having never been through it.

    Anyway, glad to hear you got your TX back up and running. My disco pump crapped out (just like I had been worrying it would) over the weekend so I know the feeling of having one of your beloved shooters renderd useless. The pump is less than a year old and I still have my original sales receipt so hopefully Crossman will take care of it. I'll call them tonight.

    Also, I went ahead and bought the Leapers 4x16x50 scope with the AO adjustment on the front bell and mounted it on my 52. All I can say is WOW! Not only is this an impressive looking beast, I can't believe how bright it is. I also have a 3x9x40 Leapers and I was very surprised how much brighter the 50mm objective is. Thanks again for the positive reviews on this one, you were right on!!

    -Aaron



  52. Aaron,

    Crosman may still take care of it, but the pump warranty is only 90 days. My own pump bit the dust after about three weeks of use. Figuring that a replacment from Crosman would have the same weaknesses, I decided to buy a set of better o-rings from Gary on the yellow and rebuild it myself. He charged me $10 shipped for two complete sets. So far it's working better than new. I replaced only the seals that have relative movement.

    DB


  53. I am new to this airguning and need a quiet air rifle. Can anyone tell me which is quieter the Crosman 1077 or the Daisy 953 or is there somthing quieter but not over $150. thanks Undecided



  54. Matt61,

    Thanks for the encouragement. Sorry to hear about your acl. Glad everything is healed and working again. We sure take our health for granted.

    kevin


  55. Robert!!!

    Oh, my gosh! I used to subscribe to the 9N, 2N, 8N, NAA newsletter!

    Yes an 8N will fit in my garage, but there's nothing to do with it.

    As for the rifle, I'm thinking. I do love a .222.

    B.B.


  56. Wow. Lively blog today.

    Slinging Lead surprised me about how easy ccw is in GA.

    Colorado is a Castle Doctrine State too. Our State statute that was adopted in the mid 1980's is commonly referred to as the "Make my day law." I don't care for the reference but it stuck.

    In Colorado it is mandatory that you take gun safety classes and pass a written test along with a live ammunition shooting test. I think the course was 10 hours including the range time. In addition you must pay for a background check in Colorado and pay to get fingerprinted.

    Funny this topic would come up since I just had to renew my CCW permit. In Colorado our permits are only good for 5 years.

    kevin




  57. Alan L. – I seen the Bisley on a 753 And it looked pretty sharp and has more ajustements than morgans, yet the morgans seems to have more styles to choose from. The Daisy x53 seem to sit about 87mm hole to hole so redrilling is far enough away to not weaken any materials. I'd almost bet one could drill holes in the atttachment mounting plate could be done as an alternative, but the holes will probably have to be tapered out at the top for the screws to fit flush. Most mounting plates require a flat surface to attach to and some trimming will be needed.

    From Bisley:

    On the Bisley the alloy plate is designed to be cut down to the size of the stock end. One screw gives the user the ability to adjust the positioning of his stock on their shoulder. This allows the gun to be adjusted to suit the user.

    Approximate Alloy Plate Dimentions:
    Max Height – 128mm
    Max Width – 42mm


  58. 1077/953 guy,

    Get the 953! It is very accurate, it's arguably quieter than the 1077, is single pump pneumatic, and won't drive you broke buying co2 carts. I think it's much more accurate than the 1077. Also, the 953 as a pneumatic will not be temperature dependent as the 1077 as a co2.

    -Chuck


  59. B.B.,

    Yes, one of lifes many little pains in the neck.

    Here in Colorado if you don't submit your renewal application AT LEAST 4 months prior to your permit expiration you're treated as if you never had one. I almost forgot and got my renewal in 2 days before the deadline. Too many things have been going on the past few months.

    kevin




  60. 1077 vs 953..I couldn't decide on those two…I shoot them both. The 953 is my number one indoor shooter for all the reasons chuck has mentioned. Although, the 1077 is quite the stress reliever too.


  61. B.B.,

    Get out here in the spring. I'll put the box scraper on the ford 9N and you can smooth out the damage in the roads that the winter caused at our place in the mountains.

    That hot, dusty chore next to the sage brush will curb your appetite for a tractor for a little while.

    It will save you enough money to pay for your trip.

    kevin



  62. I know this is off topic, but would you guys recommend paying the 10 dollar service test fee over at PA? I understand they test your gun to make sure you don't get a bad one, so just curious if you guys pay the extra 10 bucks, or would recommend it. Thanks

    John



  63. BB: Me too. I have about ten years of the Ford tractor newsletter if someone would like them. I'm open to trades. On the tractors, our old "C" now has a wide front end, and mounted two row cultivators. Spent a lot of time on the International "A" with the culti-vision you speak of. Over the years, I've had a 1953 Case DC-3, a International "M", Ferguson T-O 30,and a Allis-"B". All wide front ends as it's hilly here. We used these to do some farming with, they really weren't for fun or show. We just have the Ford and Super "C" now.I also have a new MF 451 with a little 7 ft snow blower that I use a lot here in lake effect land. Tractors can be a expensive hobby, guns are way easier to store and move. Robert


  64. Robert
    You are talking about having a cased, unloaded no ammo gun. And you had to jump thru hoops to get a permit. Here in Georgia we are talking about loaded guns in school, church, bars, etc. your permit is an application and a couple bucks. Things are different here and even vary by county. If I lived up near Atlanta my vehicle would need to be inspected, down here in SW GA I don't, also down here I don't have to wear a seatbelt if I'm in a truck.

    Slinging Lead
    Thanks for your help in making it know how easy it is in GA to get a gun.



  65. BB,
    I'll look for you a "B", then, at least its better than a Deere:). I think they were rare(many more "A" and "C" tractors), but there is a resurgence of interest in them. There are still A's and C's being retired, so there should be some B's left.

    Robert,
    Did you ever use the undermounted disc plows on the SuperC? That is one of the coolest attachments in my opinion.

    I understand your point about the wide front end (I've seen a hill or two), but how do you steer:)? Nothing like the zero-turn effect of a narrow front end swinging around with the steering brakes, unless it is forgetting to re-couple them before getting on the road:).


  66. Way back blog

    BB,

    A year or two back you described a new way to pump an SSP pistol (in your post on the Izzy or the Gamo Compact) to get extra muzzle velocity: you pumped the cocking lever part way a couple of times and then did the full stroke. And you did get a significant increase. I think I figured it out…

    Whenever you compress the air in the cylinder, the temperature goes up. Because the mass of air is much smaller than the mass of the cylinder, the temperature falls. I think your extra pumps actually served to prewarm the metal of the chamber a few degrees, and that kept the air you compressed for the shot warmer for some few seconds. Warmer air in the same volume will have a higher pressure so more energy available to the pellet.

    So it's reasonable that you got better performance! Good idea, and a good puzzle too!

    (uh, I accidentally posted this to yesterday's blog and have now reposted it here)

    –pete

    March 10, 2010 8:04 PM


  67. rikib: You mis-understand me, as I was refering to an earlier time,and suggested that the problems we have had in recent times, with the school shootings go deeper than the easy availability of firearms and easing requirements for CCW permits. My point was, that if I had choose to do so, I could have easily brought ammo to school. So,no amount of regulation can prevent any person bent on causing havoc from doing so. You are buying into the classic fear mongering, anti-gun reasoning, that holds that responsible people shouldn't be allowed to control their own lives. That they are indeed, incapable of doing so, unless ever stricter regulations are enacted to enable them to do so through "reasonable" checks. The fact that the various gun and vehicle regulations in your state of GA, that you refer to, are ambigous and not uniform proves my point that more government intrusion into our second amendment rights is counter productive. I believe that unless you have a verified, proven, crimminal background, you should be issued a CCW permit. There is no middle ground on this in my view. Robert


  68. I know that co2 cartridges are disposable, but I was wondering about their recyclability for environmental purposes? Do we just toss them out or can they be used for something after they have been spent?

    More about GA's gun laws or maybe just SWGA. I was in WalMart the other day buying pellets and a young guy bought a shotgun and ammo with nothing more than an id. All depends on where you live I guess.


  69. BG Farmer: Never used the under mounted plows. Had a friend who had them , but it took half a day with levers and jack stands, to hook them up ,and the lift arms on the C's were prone to break if you hung up. We did have a narrow front end on the "C" originally and it was nice for cultivating. In fact, that's all I really used it for, and for spraying. You are so right about the tighter turning radius. The wide front does waste more ground at the ends. But I always felt the narrow front end was squirrely on side slopes. I do un-lock the brake pedels while working with my tractors. Even with my new MF, while blowing snow I do that. I don't use chains because it tears up the blacktop drives I do. So if one wheel starts to spin I use the brakes on that wheel to maintain rearward motion. Also helps with maintaining direction when negotiating turns on icey roads.Robert


  70. Robert
    I agree that no amount of regulation is going to change what is going on. But are we all supposed to walk around with six guns on our side like the old west. There must be some alternative than going backwards. I enjoy shooting don't get me wrong, but somewhere somehow something has to give. But I'll be damned if I know what. My whole family is retired military and sometimes it seems like "for what", look at the way we treat each other.


  71. Lots of stuff today.

    Like the Remington 788. Never owned a tractor, but I’d like to. The 1077 separates itself by the amount of lead it can throw in a minute time. CCW permits even the odds. I’d like to try the Benjamin Legacy SE. Kevin, hope your daughter enjoys the Diana 23.

    Okay. Now for today’s adventure:

    Volvo the Pooh and the Honey Hole.

    I hang up with Kevin, and run down my mental checklist before I leave for the “Airgun Store that time forgot.” I feel confident in my preparation; I have cash in my pocket since credit cards are not accepted. My jacket also contains a few Milk Bones, no my budget is not slashed to the point that I need to steal nourishment from the cock a poo. The bouncers at the shop are a couple of canines, a pit bull and mastiff. While imposing at first glance, they are no more menacing than my neighbors Golden Retriever when you get to know them. I give a good chest message and I envision that they will be happy to see me. I also have a pellet wish list that I have solicited input on.

    The only thing left is to phone ahead and confirm the store is in fact open. As often the case I drive the freeway portion of the journey lost in thought. On the drive up imagine previously undiscovered air riles, including an R5 Tyrolean hand signed by Dr. Beeman. Before I know it I exit the highway. The reality sinks in that I never called, and I think about my luck. I’m the guy that diversified my housing and financial stocks with shares of General Motors. My hopes are not high.

    Sure enough the shop is closed. However, I don’t throw the towel in right away. They could have taken a lunch or be out on an errand. I decide to kill some time by hitting a few stores, but remember the local mall is closed. Seems a shuttered factory or individual store hardly gets noticed, but seeing 80 acres of former retail glory abandoned imprints itself on my brain. I pursue other options, but have no need for check cashing or liquor, as daytime drinking makes me sleepy and then gives me a head ache and I did my banking earlier, at a bank.

    I jump back on the freeway and in ten minutes I am back in 2010. I see a Chili’s and an Applebee’s along with all the current retail. Lunch will be my distraction. I phone the shop twice after eating and get no answer, just the high tech marvel known as a fax machine after eight rings…


  72. Volvo,

    Now I feel like my date stood me up.

    You're a true salesman through and through. It's in your dna or it's ingrained.

    Milk bones in your pocket is the proof.

    kevin



  73. rikib

    I didn't let people know how easy it was to get a gun in GA, I let people know how easy it is to get a CCW permit, which includes a Georgia Bureau of Investigation background check, and fingerprinting at the courthouse (which the applicant pays for.) If any psychos and cons want to flock to Georgia thinking its their ticket, let them waste their money. They will be DENIED.

    CCWs DRIVE DOWN CRIME AND VIOLENCE. The statistics are there for everyone to see who's eyes are open.

    Imagine for a moment that you are a criminal living on the state line. One state has a must-issue CCW policy. The other state limits gun ownership and rights to carry them. Where would you go to do your crimes, assuming you don't want to get shot? That is correct. Detroit.

    Guns are easy to get anywhere. If you are a criminal, you will already know all the right people. The government can do almost nothing about this, which is why those of us who obey laws, pay taxes, and kiss our wives goodbye in the morning should be allowed to protect ourselves, with guns, legally. "Wild West" is a red herring, meant to illicit images of pandemonium.

    The presence or existence of guns does not somehow influence or convince or inspire people to go on killing rampages. They do provide a way to end those rampages quickly.

    Guns don't kill people. People with mustaches kill people.


  74. Robert

    GA CCW laws are not ambiguous. They are the same across the state. CCW permits are regulated. It includes a GBI check. You will be fingerprinted even if you are DENIED. If there is any reason to deny, you will be DENIED.

    It's the motor vehicle laws that vary by county to county. I used to register my car with my brother because his county required no inspection ($25 fee) had lower ad velorem taxes, and wasted these taxes less than the county I lived in. I didn't see how that had anything to do with the carry laws for guns. Somebody help me out here.

    You said "I believe that unless you have a verified, proven, criminal background, you should be issued a CCW permit. There is no middle ground on this in my view."

    That is exactly the stance of the State Of Georgia. You will be accepted or DENIED in a 60 day period, there is no "were looking into it" or "it's still under investigation." If they have any reason to deny you, mental illness history [DENIED], criminal record [DENIED], threats of violence or terrorism, you will be ________" Class? DENIED.

    The only exclusion here is that there is no mandatory safety class or test to be taken. I think gun owners should take a safety class. This is a given. Those that don't do so own their own peril. I have never felt the need for the government to wipe my bottom for me. If you own something as dangerous as a firearm, and you kill someone accidentally because you didn't know how to use it safely, then it should be dealt with as manslaughter (third degree murder.) Luckily we already have a law for that.


  75. ajvenom

    The 953 is number one? What about the 853?!

    I was just about to send Mr. Airgun Addict an email when my better half walked up behind me. This made me snap back to my senses, however briefly. In the meantime, you swooped in and executed the kill. Congratulations aj. Let us know how you like her.

    Perhaps we can work out some type of joint custody deal!


  76. The solution for gun violence and predators killing people for their shoes is to vigorously enforce laws that are already on the books. The problem is the absurd notion that people like this can be 'rehabilitated' and the resulting catch and release judicial system we currently have. Violent offenses should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, no exceptions. If the prisons fill up too fast (most common argument) then you release non-violent criminals to make room. I don't want any criminals set free, but would rather come home to find my car stolen then my wife killed or raped. Somehow, inexplicably and unfortunately, 'advocates' who would never be able to find a job doing anything productive in society have found their niche defending scum. Meanwhile Boyscouts are being prosecuted for having pocketknives at school. Priorities in this country are so backward as to be laughable. Even so, it is still the best country in the world, in my opinion.

    God Bless America.


  77. BG_Farmer and everyone,

    I like old tractors but I have no room for one. If I did, I'd have one already.

    I could probably have an old IH Cub, but I guess my priorities are with firearms and airguns, as Robert suggests.

    I have lots of good books about tractors, though, and I love to daydream with them.

    B.B.


  78. rikib,

    Slinging Lead is correct & I agree with everything he said, but I'd like to expand on these statements he made:

    "The presence or existence of guns does not somehow influence or convince or inspire people to go on killing rampages. They do provide a way to end those rampages quickly."

    If you want to talk about the Wild West, I agree with Slinging Lead. In Texas, we did something that goes against the grain of the federal law: we allow teachers in public schools to carry loaded guns. While the process to pack heat on school grounds requires more than a CC permit, it's the surest way to stop a repeat of Columbine.

    Furthermore, airline pilots don't like the idea of handing over the controls to terrorists, so that's why they're allowed to carry loaded weapons while flying. Again, there are stringent controls on doing so, but an impressive number of pilots are already carrying loaded guns.

    If the presence of armed citizens in airplanes & in public schools will discourage terrorism and criminal attacks, why don't anti-gunners believe it'll stop crime in our houses, stores & neighborhoods? How are pilots & teachers different from the rest of us who could be victims of crime? Of course, the answer is that we're all the same.

    For what it's worth, I believe the Holocaust would never have happened if the Germans had been allowed to freely own firearms.

    Lastly, let's talk about criminals & guns. Do you honestly believe that a criminal is going to run to Georgia, buy guns & live a life of crime because Slinging Lead wrote about how to get a concealed carry permit? Criminals don't follow the law. They know how to get guns in every state (and country). They don't care if you need a background check…they've stolen the gun from the house they just burglarized or they got a friend to buy the gun for them. Criminals don't need lessons for how to commit crimes & where to get the tools of their trade.

    For my part, I'm armed, free & glad to be living in America. Not only do I not want to live in another country, I don't even want to visit one!

    Edith


  79. Slinging Lead,

    I really need to see a picture of you, although I have now deduced that you do not have a mustache…I think?

    Volvo

    ps I didnt give the dogs a message, it was a massage. : 0 )


  80. SlingingLead: I didn't mean to imply that motor vehicle laws had anything to do with CCW permits. When I refered to your motor vehicle laws in my reply to rikib, which he pointed out were not uniform across your state on a county wide basis. I believe he was using a anology, like how my state NY, which has stricter guide lines for CCW permit applications than say Idaho. I believe that what started this debate was that he is concerned that if more CCW permits are issued it will increase gun violence . He also is concerned that gun regulations vary so much state to state, that it is too easy to aquire firearms in some places. The ambigious part and what is wrong, is that if you come to NY for example and have your handgun ,which you are properly licensed to carry in GA, you will be arrested here, and sent to jail.I made the mistaken assumption that GA CCW permits were easy to obtain and subject to county wide variences in interpetation by ribkid's replies. Thank-you for clarifing. Does this clariification of my reply to rikib help you out? The rest of what you said was spot on and I agree with you. Edith, you nailed it. Thanks, Robert


  81. Edith and Slinging Lead,

    I've had a carry permit since October of 1962 and completly agree with what you both have said. Except, Edith, I might want to visit a foreign country.

    Mr B.


  82. Robert,

    There's a movement afoot for a federal law to make all CC permits reciprocal in any state that allows them. A number of states already have reciprocal agreements.

    Edith


  83. Edith: Thank-you, I am aware of that through the NRA, of which I'm now a life member, and I believe all shooters should be. I visted niegboring NJ about ten years ago and was informed that I couldn't even transport a BB gun through there, let alone have a CCW permit. Here in NY on the state level,we've been fighting the lack of uniformity in handgun permit regulation that still exists from county to county. Much of which is politically motivated. In NY that equals money.Take care, Robert


  84. Edith,

    The Atacama and Patagonia? The Iguazu Falls? Lago di Garda? Rome? The bazaar in Istanbul? A Scottish castle? Not even a little tempted?? Tsk tsk…

    -AlanL


  85. AlanL,

    It's no use. Edith is an immigrant. Born in Shanghai and speaking both German and English at home until she went to school, she is a true-blue American. She will not leave the country. I once got her as far as the Bahamas, because she considered the cruies ship to be home. I never met anyone who loves this country like she does.

    I like to travel, but I do it alone.

    B.B.


  86. Guest Blogger

    re Gamo .22 cal 750fps etc…

    Only due to the quoted "750 fps with lead pellets" as noted on the PA site http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Gamo_Whisper_with_Nitro_Piston/1509

    I realize that Gamo overstates their fps claims with their alloy lightweight pellets however… they claim 900fps with those "rockets" or whatever they call them, so that claim, de-tuned with the "lead pellet" statement by the PA folks and, the fact that the Hunter pellet is a mid-heavy weight at 15.3 grains, intuitively tells me that 750-ish ought to be do-able from this rifle. Even 700 fps consistently would be acceptable in .22cal based on the claims.

    Problem is we have A and C factors and no way of arriving at "B", with "B" being the "lead pellet" weight stated on the PA site.

    Verrry twicky those marketing folks…

    Brian in Idaho


  87. Rikb, there's nothing wrong with going backwards… if you find that you're going in the wrong direction. In that case 'backwards' is quite possibly the only direction that makes any sense!

    The founders realized that the government they set up – including the Bill of Rights, only works with a people of good moral character. But a fair bit of effort has been devoted lately to redefining (or undefining) 'moral', and the result is a jumble of pop-psych sound bytes that, taken together, are completely nonsensical. Being a moral person does not mean recycling (to save the planet!) the condoms you gave to the 14-year-olds at the local high school. It does not mean 'tolerance of all viewpoints'. It does not mean demanding that other people give you their money via the government. It does not mean redefining right and wrong to suit the mood at the moment. And mostly, it does NOT mean 'Me First'.

    The BIG problem with 'keep and bear arms' will never be solved with classes, tests, or waiting periods. G. K. Chesterton once suggested that the most important thing to know about a man – whether you are his landlord, employer, or creditor – is not his income or employment history. It is his philosophy, because that is what drives a man to do what he does. And right now there is no coherent philosophy of being a citizen of the United States.

    We are supposedly fighting a 'war on terror' (or whatever the hell the current term is). But what we can't fight is the ideology. In that sense, we're fighting the war unarmed.


  88. I'd really like to quell this conversation about gun laws. I'm sorry I caused such an uproar. Criminals will get weapons whenever and were ever they want, I understand that. Permits are a good idea but background checks are not all inclusive, don't know what would be. For example, I am a retired vet., I am on 100% disability (for psych reasons) for over 15yrs. I applied for and received a gun permit. Although I'm continuously turned down for jury duty. I do not own a gun other than an airgun as I understand my problems and respect firearms. Not everyone does and some will slip through the cracks of a background check, I don't know the answer. I also love my knives but they are kept under lock with my wife having the only key. I have to ask her so she can check my mood before I go out to throw them. Like I said at the beginning of this sorry for causing the uproar, hope we can all calm down.


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