RWS 92 – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier

Before we start, there’s been a lot of chatter about home defense weapons. I advised a .410 shotgun because a woman would be shooting it and she has no experience with guns. A .410 hits with the same velocity as a 12-gauge shotgun, though with far less shot. For defense that doesn’t matter, and the .410 has far less recoil, so I think it’s ideal. I plan to buy one of these for my house.


The Taurus Circuit Judge is a 5-shot .410 carbine that will be perfect for home defense. Faster than a pump, it’s a double-action revolver. Supposed to be out in 2010.

Here are a couple reminders. First is the Facebook event on Tuesday, April 8, at 8 p.m. Eastern. I’ll be on the Pyramyd Air Facebook page for an hour to answer questions you send in. To ask questions, you need a Facebook account and you must be a Friend of Pyramyd Air. Register early and don’t miss out.

Second, don’t forget the Arkansas Airgun Extravaganza, April 30 & May 1. This airgun show is open to the public on Friday, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m., and Saturday, 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Six-foot tables are $50 each. Admission is $5. Kids 12 and under get in free with an adult. Dealer setup is on Friday, 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. Visit the show website here.

Okay, on to today’s report.


RWS 92 is a nice little breakbarrel. Based on the Cometa 220.

The RWS 92 was a strange bird. One of those airguns that’s difficult to categorize. While they were available, no one, including me, paid much attention to them, but as they were being blown out at the end of their run a few years ago, suddenly people sat up and took notice. And when they did, their remarks were more telling about themselves than about the gun.

One person who happened to get in on Larry’s Pawn & Gun blowout sale bought one for $100 and said it wasn’t a half-bad gun, despite the high price. Excuse me? High price? Where do you buy a quality breakbarrel these days for under a hundred dollars? Obviously this person was new to airguns and was also probably quite young, because $100 is a fantastic price for a gun of any quality.

And the RWS 92 does have quality. Made by the Spanish firm Cometa, the 92 is a small breakbarrel called the Cometa 220 that resembles a Feinwerkbau 124 in several important ways. It has a ball detent barrel latch, the forearm screws go in on an angle, the trigger feels about the same, and the safety slide looks and operates the same way. Even the stock resembles the FWB 124 sporter stock more than a little. Size-wise, the 92 is a 7/8-scale 124. Overall length is 41-1/4 inches with a 13-3/4-inch length of pull. Barrel length is 17-1/4 inches, and the rifle weighs 5-3/4 lbs. Cocking weight of my example is 24 lbs., just enough to know you are doing something, but not too much to spoil a long day’s shooting.

Power is supposed to be in the 700 f.p.s. range with 7.9-grain Premiers. We’ll find out what this one does for certain.

The sights are a bit on the strange side. They’re fiberoptic, but with a difference. Instead of a fiberoptic plastic tube in front, the entire front sight blade is cast of fiberoptic plastic. The fully adjustable rear sight has a large fiberoptic plastic element that peeks through the rear leaf in the conventional two dots. Vertical adjustment is by a wheel; but for horizontal movement, there’s a screw that’s loosened and the element slides in either direction.


Entire front sight blade is fiberoptic plastic. It catches the light.


Rear sight contains a huge fiberoptic element.

The beech stock is plain and finished with a medium brown stain. The shape is conventional with a Monte Carlo comb and a vestigial cheekpiece on the left side for right-handers. Except for that, this is a completely ambidextrous rifle.

This is a new rifle to me. I paid it no attention when it was selling and little afterward. But now that I see one in person, I’m persuaded that was a mistake. I like smaller, easy-to-cock and shoot air rifles. With the R7 serving as the poster boy, I guess the Bronco is my idea of a nice rifle. Now that I’m looking at the RWS 92, I see it belongs in the same category.

I see some moly peeking out at the baseblock, so I asked Vince if he tuned the gun. He doesn’t remember, but said if there’s moly visible he probably tore it down, deburred and cleaned the insides, lubed with moly and set the pivot bolt tension. That should give us an optimum factory tune. Next time, we’ll see what that does for us.

98 Responses to “RWS 92 – Part 1”

  • Mr B. Says:

    Morning B.B.,

    I'm probably asking another of my should have drunk my coffee before asking, but what does and how does, one "set the pivot bolt tension"?

    Thanks,
    Mr B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Mr. B.,

    One tightens the pivot bolt until it will hold the barrel in any position after the gun is cocked.

    B.B.

  • Mel Says:

    The Spain Cometa rifles are, in my opinion, one of the best kepts secrets of modern airguns. They are well known in Germany (where I live) as a good alternative to Weihrauch and Diana for those who are on a budget. Yet, the US market of in-between pric ed rifles is dominated by the Spain companies Gamo and Norica (sold as Hammerli and some other brands). I personally believe that Cometa air rifles offer a much higher quality and better trigger for a lower price than the Gamos & most Noricas do!

    If I were in the Pyramyd Air company, I'd definitely check the Cometas out and think about importing them. They have everything from small youth air rifle to powerful hunter – nothing fancy, nothing out of the ordinary, but solid craftmanship, in well thought out designs.

  • Bub Says:

    B.B.

    I've always been somewhat sceptical of the usefulness of the Judge. I don't want to get in any arguments over that issue, because I know many including my brother love the little guns.

    However, I'm more impressed with the little rifle version. There are just not that many multi-shot .410's out there. I don't know how the rifled barrel will effect shot shell patterns, but I guess we will see. With all the new ammo options out there for the Judge, the rifle version, especially if it is carbine size, might make a good litle all around truck gun, home defense, etc.

    Bub

  • Vince Says:

    Mr. B, it depends on the rifle. On the RWS92 (and most other guns) the pivot is actually a bolt that you can tighten or loosen as needed. The big trick is to keep the pivot bolt from loosening up once the adjustment is set.

    Some, like the '92 here, have little cut-outs spaced evenly around the periphery of the bolt head, and there is one matching cutout in the compression tube. The idea is that you tighten the bolt until the breech is where you want it, then line up the cutout in the tube with the closest one in the bolt, and then insert a tiny machine screw that locks everything together and keeps the bolt from backing out.

    This is a nice, positive locking system, but what happens when the best bolt position happens to be right between 2 of those positions? If you go to the notch before, the barrel loosens up. The next notch makes it too tight. I THINK this is what happened on BB's gun.

    What I do in that case is real simple. I take the bolt out, wrap a piece of steel 'chicken wire' once around the bolt, and cut it right where the wires overlap. This gives me a ring that fits under the bolt head like a small washer. I then hammer out this ring until it's the thickness I want (usually about 1/2 the thread pitch), and I've got a spacing washer that'll let the bolt tighten up where it needs to.

  • Vince Says:

    Mel, I tend to agree with you about the Cometa's. It used to be (in my opinion) that the RWS94 (Cometa 400) was the real star of that lineup. Not sure why they never caught on quite like some others.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Bub,

    The rifling is one of the development issues they still have with the gun. They need a de-spin muzzle attachment that will fit this gun. They want it to attach without ruining the lines if the gun, which are very attractive. Hasn't been developed yet.

    I held one of these at the SHOT Show and they feel wonderful. I would get one as a little shotgun and forget the rifled barrel, and I think Taurus is looking at that option as well.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    If you can afford a gun for every purpose, then I suppose that Taurus carbine would fill some slot.
    My Rem. 20 guage 870 has to do duty as a defense gun, small game getter and clay bird buster. It does quite well at all three.

  • Bub Says:

    B.B.

    A smooth bore would be a great option for the little .410 Taurus. My guess is most people who buy the gun are more interested in the .410 aspect than the .45.

    Bub

  • Anonymous Says:

    Vince: I have used a similar techinque when tightening pivot bolts. What I did is use a small thin, copper (used in electric work?) lock washer. Worked like your wire trick.
    BB: That Taurus looks like a winner if they make the choke device for it. Would be like a repeater TC carbine ,which are also available in .410. Hope they keep it shooting both rounds. Thanks for posting the picture.
    On the Comenta guns. Saw a Fenix model in .25 somewhere. Only did about 650fps with 20 to 25 gr pellets but was very nice. I've about given up on finding a .25 springer that won't either need a ton of work to make shootable, or is not made in China. I'm also beginning to think that with the .25 spring air rifle, the best accuracy and range of usefulness will be in the 19 fpe threshold, for under 30 yard shooting and hunting. My sister had a Comenta air rifle in .22 that we shot targets and rats with ,when we were kids. Got the job done, but wasn't overly powerful. We used to shoot the English RN "Bulldog" brand pellets in it. It looked like the 92 above , but the stock and trigger guard was more like the Diana 27. I think it also had some narrow sling swivels, on the stock and barrel, and a leather seal. The sights were a post front with a round metal bead a open rear sight with a V-notch, and a slider for elevation. Don' know the model , maybe someone else had one or does? Robert

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B off subject, I think I read in one of your articales that the crosman 1077 was quieter than the marauder, or did I get it wrong. Thank you for your time . Bing

  • Anonymous Says:

    Don't know how keen I'd be to put my hand on the forestock of the circuit judge. Hot gasses and little bits flying out the cylinder gap makes me leary there.

  • Volvo Says:

    RWS 92
    This immediately caused flashbacks to the ill fated refinish job mine received. Power wise my example was closer to the HW50S or FWB 124 than the R7.

    Finish was very poor, which surprised me. I supposed that since Cometa was making these for RWS they would have been given a little more attention. I know in the now defunct Hoover Company plant when they made models as other brands (Sears) the QC was higher as the retailer would not tolerate as many returns of the Kenmore brand.

    Dollar for dollar however, the 92 was a great value. I did not get one of the pawn shop sell offs, but Pd about the same price on GB for what was probably one of the last NOS. Accurate, light weight and hard hitting, I think it would make a nice back door, barn, or shed rifle.

    Circuit Judge,

    I would vote for a smooth bore also ala the 9410. I added a ghost ring type rear sight and it was a blast as a plinker, with slugs in the Winchester 9410 I could still do ok (less than fist size) out to 40-50 yards.It was however as finicky as a pellet rifle in ammo preferences.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB.

    Thanks for the picture. Great pig gun, snake shooter and well, I guess home defense ( I'm having to eat some words I have spoken in the past against the .410 as a home defense tool). To my credit I would like to add that after ridiculing the .410 for HD Friday (I think it was) I took my .410 and 20ga out with comparable loads and did a little field test resulting in a better attitude toward the .410. Anyway, A magnum handgun in a Carbine, love it. maybe I won't have to keep looking for that ever allusive Camp 45 that seems to get sold just before I find it.

    Won't a .44mag shoot .45LC?

    DSW

    wv: comenfru hmm…

  • Anonymous Says:

    Anonymous, the 44 mag will not shoot .45 long colt. The bores of .45LC run from .452 to .457 dia, and 44 mag are smaller at .429 dia. They are completely different cartridges. Robert

  • Anonymous Says:

    Volvo: Some triva. An interesting .410 rifle I once saw offered for sale at a show, was a SMLE.303 Mk #3 that was altered to use the .410 shot shell. the guy who had it, also had a.22RF SMLE Mk #3 for sale as well. I believe the .22 was a single shot and the .410 was a repeater. Robert

  • Mr B. Says:

    Vince and Robert,

    Thank you both for your replies. Would have taken me a long time to come up with either of those solutions. Vince how do you measure a 1/2 thread pitch?

    Thanks,
    Mr B.

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Anonymous at 9:39am

    The Taurus Circuit Judge has a blast shield that prevents debris/gases from burning the forward hand. Follow this link, it has a photo of the blast shield in the comments section.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Forend concerns,

    That is the other development issue that is holding up launch of the gun. There is a blast shield but they are not yet satisfied with it.

    That has always been the concern about revolving rifles.

    B.B.

  • Vince Says:

    Slinging Lead, it's easy. Measure the length of the threaded portion of the bolt and divide by the number of threads.

  • ajvenom Says:

    http://www.reviewcentre.com/consumer_reviews54.html

    Reviewcentre….a UK review sight. It used to be better before a larger company bought out the original company. There are a couple of RWS 92 reviews.

    mmmm Reviews54 (reviewcentre)and network54 (yellow forum) are listed in these two net addresses; coincident?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Hi everybody on pyramidair !

    My name is Ivan, and I live in Belgium, Europe. I've been reading your blogs ever since and I must say they are very very interesting and useful !

    But I would like to ask a question or two if I'm allowed

    1) How is it, that airguns are so popular in the USA, ever since the fifties ? Over here we are tought that in the US, the right to carry a firearm is written in the constitution… So, why buy an airgun then, if you can have all that other stuff ?

    2) I would like to ask if it's safe to put a reddot viewer on my diana 46E spring rifle ? This rifle has already killed 2 ordinary 4X32 scopes, that were specially made for diana guns, by Diana itself ! Promising unbreakable scopes, it's already nr. 3 that I'm using. So , now I have a reddot and I don't know if it will survive the heavy 'twang' of the spring ? Can you advise me please ?

    Thanks already for your help and keep up the interesting articles !

    All the best

    Ivan

  • AlanL Says:

    Bobby Nations,

    I want to thank you for the point to Box O' Truth – Educational Zone. It is indeed a very informative and interesting resource. You were not kidding that there is easily a whole weekend's worth of reading there. I am currently researching shotguns but keep getting sidetracked by all the other fascinating stuff (like Article #22 on the Ruger 10-22.) It is an education!

    -AlanL

  • Mike Says:

    If Taurus wants to keep the rifled barrel, they should go with the same fix that Thompson/Center uses
    in their .410 Contender.

    The barrel has a screw in tube that has "In Line" Rifling or groves. This stops the shot charge from spinning as it exits the barrel. It works great. I have a Contender with a .410 barrel and have used in on rabbits at 20 yds.

    Mike

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ivan,

    I posted your question here because I don't answer messages posted to blogger.

    Just because we shoot airguns doesn't mean we don't also shoot firearms. I shoot both, but airguns are easier to shoot at home, so I get to shoot them a lot more.

    As for the ruggedness of the dot sight, I believe they are more rigged than most cheap scopes. It should hold up, if it's a reliable model. The Diana 46 doesn't recoil that much anyway.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Mike,

    They are looking at that possibility.

    B.B.

  • AlanL Says:

    Hi Ivan,

    I am quite new to airgunning. You are right, we here in the USA are blessed to live in a country that lets us arm ourselves pretty much as we desire. There is no question that the proportion of the population that owns firearms (in all their varieties) greatly outstrips that which owns airguns. But I can give you some reasons why I like airguns.

    1) They are much quieter than firearms.

    2) They are less powerful than firearms. For instance, a very powerful air rifle may deliver as much 25 ft-lbs of energy (most don't pass 20), whereas a minor firearm will deliver close to 100 ft-lbs and up rapidly from there. A 71 grain .32 cal bullet traveling 900 fps delivers 128 ft-lbs. So I can safely shoot an airgun in my back yard at home. A firearm has to be shot in the range, or in the open outdoors, far from human habitation.

    3) Airguns are beautiful. They possess every bit as much craftsmanship, quality and beauty as firearms.

    4) Airgun ammunition is much cheaper.

    5) You do not need a license (in most places) to own an airgun.

    Hope this helps. Enjoy Belgium- it is a beautiful place! (And your chocolates are very good too!)

    -AlanL

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    Interesting rifle. It seems like the Chinese copied a lot from the Cometa's, leading me to believe those who say they are much more popular in Europe than here.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Ivan: I have a 46E in .22 and I have a Centerpoint 3-9X scope on it. I'm using the four screw, one piece mount (Leapers?), that some Centerpoint scopes come with. Quite a few tins of pellets have been through this gun over the last four years , and no problems yet. I did lube tune my gun and it has very little twang , so maybe that has helped. I personally do not care for red dots so I can't comment on them.
    On why we use air guns even though fire arms are generally more available here than in Europe. Reasons range from interest, local politics(like maybe you want to experience shooting a pistol but local regulations make owning the fire arms version problematic), noise , safe indoor shooting, no FFL to obtain, and cost. In my own case, although I have my own 200yard rifle range, and can, and do shoot a variety of firearms. I have to travel some distance to get to my range and with a very busy schedule, I find it easier to simply subsitute the airguns for my fix.I have only a fifty yard range here , but I find the springers I shoot to be as challenging as some of my firearms are at 200yards. I also shoot something like 8 to 10 K of pellets anually, which I couldn't begin to afford to do with firearms. If I didn't have the 200yd range and space available to me, I would probably get into the PCP's, as they would subsitute for all my RF shooting. As it stands now ,I just go to my range and use rim fires. Robert

  • AlanL Says:

    Vince,

    I would be very interested in reading a guest blog from you on how you became a master gunsmith. You must've had many interesting adventures along the way. It may be inappropriate to ask this, but is this what you do for a living?

    -AlanL

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    Ivan,
    That's a good question. Airguns are simply more convenient, safer, and less obtrusive than firearms. Technically, I could do early morning target practice with my firearms, but realistically a daily barrage of 40-50 rounds would irritate the neighborhood and bankrupt me in the case of centerfire. I also find that the careful hold and followthrough required by springers is exceptionally good practice for shooting firearms.

    Try a Tasco Golden Antler 3-9x32AO or the Leaper's Golden Image — they are really hard to tear up. A red dot is almost never precise enough to make you happy with an airgun.

  • Bobby Nations Says:

    AlanL,

    You're welcome regarding the Box Of Truth website. I found it originally when researching getting a Curios and Relics license. There is a lot of great information for collectors on that site.

    I really enjoy his writing style and all of the pictures, pictures, pictures! Now that I think of it, there are similarities in style between that site and this one.

    Glad you enjoy it.

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Ivan

    I have both firearms and airguns. If I discharge a firearm in my backyard, the police will show up and arrest me, as doing so is illegal within my city limits.

    Shooting my firearms involves driving to the range, and paying range fees. And paying for ammunition, the price of which is at an all time high.

    Firearms are typically very loud, which can be fun, but it gets old quickly.

    Quality airguns are just as beautiful to behold as their firearm counterparts. They are also ideal for educating younger shooters.

    I heard it phrased somewhere that with a nice airgun, all the money goes into the powerplant (the gun). The cost of each shot thereafter is negligible. For a firearm, the bullet is the powerplant, and you pay for it every single time you pull the trigger.

    Most of my shooting is for target or plinking purposes. My paper targets don't care how fast/powerfully my chosen projectile slams through the bullseye. It only cares how close the holes are to each other, just like me.

    I would heartily recommend a Leapers/Centerpoint scope for your springer. I have four of them currently, and they are superb for the price.

    BTW: it is my opinion that Eddy Merckx is the greatest athlete of all time. His accomplishments are unmatched in the sporting world. Also he is not an arrogant showboat, which I admire.

    Now, if I may, a quote from the movie, Murder By Death:

    "I'm not a Frenchy, I'm a Belgie!"

    Please keep an eye out for a Hy-Score 801, made by Peipers of Belgium. Apparently they are quite a find!

  • derrick38 Says:

    Viva Eddy and Axel Merckx!!!

  • Vince Says:

    Ay Carumba!!!!

    AlanL, I am NOT a master ANYTHING. Well, I'm pretty good at teaching people how to drive stick shift, and at losing things I just had in my hand a second ago, but other than that…

    I'm a naval engineer (civilian), and I like to tinker with things. And when I get a bug up my keester about something, I tend to dive into it rather enthusiastically.

    I am NOT a solid authority by any stretch. But because I've bought, sold, and played with a lot of different airguns over the past FEW years (all of 6!) I tend to accumulate anecdotal information pretty quickly. But that's about it.

    I'm sorry if somehow I gave people the wrong impression. Sometimes I have useful info to add to a discussion, but so does everybody!

    So please, AlanL, if anything I contribute is useful or entertaining I'm glad for it… but don't gimme any more credit than is due!

    But thanks for the compliment!

  • Anonymous Says:

    Vince,

    WHAT? Not a gun Guru? Now you tell me after my 1010 is spread all over my work(loose term)bench!:)

    You seem to know enough to get around, don't sell yourself short.

    DSW

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    AlanL

    Vince, like derrick38 and Nick Carter, is notoriously humble. They all do the 'Aww shucks, I just like to tinker around' routine, and its almost enough to make a hack mechanic like me sick to his stomach;^) That being said, read Wayne's or anyone else's raves and you will see the truth, despite their deceptive humility.

    There are 340-some examples of Nick and Derrick's brilliance on http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/

    Then you have Vince's many guest blogs here. Also he has no need of sissy spring compressors. Very impressive.

    Vince

    I think your earlier post was meant for Bruce. Otherwise, I have no idea what the heck you are talking about.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Slinginlead,

    You elequently worded what I hackedly keyboarded!

    DSW

  • Wayne Says:

    Vince,

    Based on the work you've done for me… I'd call you a master airgun smithy..
    and one that thinks creatively… and that's a little out of the norm.

    Anyway, call yourself what you want:-).. I'm still sending ya my sick guns..

    RWS92..
    In my opinion, this is one of the best mid sized springers around…. even if you double the price, you don't really get a better gun… maybe at three of four times the price, you get a better gun.. but are you a shooter who can really use the "better gun"?.. with springers so hard to shoot accurate.. My guess is, most folks won't see any increase in accuracy..

    Barrel droop is an issue in most of the 92s I've tried, so plan on getting Tom's compensating mount that he designed.

    I find the open sights lacking, and so, I mount a 3-9x32AO leapers on them.

    The RWS94 is also miles above it's competitors for the money. Maybe the best trigger for the money on any spring gun.

    But forget the RWS93.. to me it's got the worst trigger, is as heavy as the 94, but only shoots a little faster than the 92.. That one is a flop.

    The RWS92 and the new Bronco are the only non-collection springers I have kept.

    Wacky Wayne, Match Director, Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • Volvo Says:

    Ivan,

    Before I bought my R1, I shot at a ground hog in my garden with my Remington 788 in .223. Now that may not sound so bad, but at the time I lived in a triplex and was shooting from the family room. Not the most neighbor friendly approach, plus I then needed to hose the bits and pieces of him off my tomato plants.

    Additionally, while it may seem that airguns are hugely popular from this blog, the reality is many Americans’ still think of them as children’s toys.

    My hope has always been to change that.

    Robert,
    Thanks for the trivia info. The .410 can be a good bit of fun.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Robert,

    Thanks for clearing up the .45LC / .44mag thing. Maybe I was thinking the 460 S&W shooting 45LC? Whatever. Thanks for the input.

    DSW

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    DSW,

    .45 Colt in a .45 Casull.

    B.B.

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    BB

    I have a Diana 52, in .22, which I bought used. Based on its magnum-springer reputation I think mine shoots smooth as silk and I love it. I have both the UTG lower 17.1" droop compensating mount and the UTG no-droop mount. With the droop compensating mount I have to shim the front ring to get close enough to POA for fine tuning with the scope turrets. With the no-droop mount I have to shim the back ring. Call me lucky. Any chance Leapers/UTG will produce a smaller increment of droop compensation? 8" maybe? 17" seems huge for a starting point.

    Maybe I'm alone in this barrel-droop limbo. Have you heard this from anyone else? Perhaps you could use your considerable influence. It works fine as is, with either mount. I would just like to get away from the shims for once. Even TeX requires a couple.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Slinging Lead,

    You are no alone. Because there is no consistent amount of droop in a Diana gun, it is difficult to design a mount for them. My idea is to design just one adjustable mount that can be set for whatever droop is actually encountered. Maybe next year.

    B.B.

  • Vince Says:

    Slinging Lead, you're right! I shouldn't have 'pitched' that one to ya!!!

    Now, where did I put that keyboard I was just typing on…

  • Frank B Says:

    This mornings blog really caught me off guard!Up until I read Wayne's assessment of the RWS93…Let me explain why!First off,My classic 1966 Chrysler New Yorker was purchased from Jonathan White,the assistant manager of Larry's pistol and pawn!Secondly,until about a month ago,Larry's had [2]RWS 93's left in the store all these years later.I picked up both,but bought neither….something about the fit and finish of them turned me off.This morning I went by to see if they were still there…..nope,all gone.I felt a little like I missed the bus,then I read Wayne's comment on the 93,and now I am content with my current collection.Phheww,I feel better!

  • ajvenom Says:

    Well I finally had a chance to shoot the 853. It has a few advantages over my 953. One being a Lothar Walther Barrel and two a stock spacer mid point under the for stock that keeps the power plant from letting the pump handle jump out a little when you shoot. Also, I like the wood stock, it feels more solid when you pump, cock and shoot the 853.

    I went through the 853 a little and cleaned, lubed and adjusted it to my liking. The trigger sits at a nice 1.25 LBS and the stock without spacers is 13.5", so no spacers or adjustable butt plate needed. Not sure if this is LOP for newer 853 as I bought it used with a new finish.

    I will be putting the 853 target sights on my 953 for practice and the 4x32AO Leapers scope or the crosman challenger target sights will be used on the 853.

    Well, you've all seen the nicely finished stock on the 853, I guess you are all wondering how it shoots. Well, with a scope at 10M, I've only shot about 50 to 75 rounds. During this time I was ajusting the scope and the air rifle. With RWS R10 Rifle Pellets from the tin, the best shooting came from the last set of 5 groups of 5 rounds:

    Groups Ranged: .039 to .157 ctc AVG of 5 groups .094 ctc
    3 of those groups started out absolutely zero ctc in the first 3 shots.

    My best 953 5-5 round groups sit around .057 to .197 with an average of .134. Best all time 5 round group is .039. With the 853 you may see one of these everytime you go out and shoot. Then again, maybe I was really concentrating, because I kinda knew I was going to post these groupings.

    As always, my groups generally double in size when using target sights. I need a lot more practice with those sights. Scopes will spoil you, but can help determine an airguns potential.

  • ajvenom Says:

    For those keeping track at home… my daisy wire stock BB gun arrived. I only opened the outside mailing box. Inside the box has the number 801 on it. I stuck it up in a closet for now.

  • Frank B Says:

    AJVenom,a shame such a good shot doesn't plan on shooting that wirestock Daisy.There goes my hopes for a postal match,not that I would stand a chance…..number 801 huh,so much for sequential sale. Frank

  • pcp4me Says:

    BB,

    I have heard some comments on the internet that a 410 shot gun is "grossly underpowered". What are your thoughts on that?

    I know as a teen my first rabbit/bird gun was a 410 bolt action shot gun. Once I managed to learn to shoot, I seldom had a rabbit or quail that got away. And it sure was a lot more pleasant to shoot than the 12 gauge I "graduated" to. I can't say I took more game with the 12 gauge either. Just cost me more. And range was not a factor either as every rabbit of quail I shot was "walked up".

    As a youth we were dirt poor as my dad barely managed to make enough to pay for the 40 acres we lived on and buy food and clothing for the 6 kids. Dogs were a luxury we could not afford. So were guns and ammo. I used the few guns my father had owned while he was in the army. I had to earn the money to buy the shells needed if I wanted to hunt. So I worked 20 – 40 hours a week for local farmers, spent a lot of time working on our 40 acres, and every free moment I got was spent shooting, hunting, or fishing. Man I was one happy kid!

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    AJ

    The timing of your post is most peculiar, as I am in the final stages of buying a nearly new 953 for $40. Is that a good deal? Anyway, my Bronco is destined to leave me soon, and I longed for a cheap replacement. I hope it will do. Strange how a person can be strapped for cash, yet come up with money for an air rifle they don't need. If SWMBO only knew, I would likely be in some kind of trouble.

    As I mentioned before, you bought that beauty (853) out from under me, so enjoy it my friend.

    Weird how the Daisy repro's are going down in number. My guess is that some of the 'Friends of Daisy' or whatever, made commitments, but later decided not to actually buy the thing. These rifles are now being sold off, because they have already sold #1000? Anyway, I hope that is what is going on. I would hate to meet some other guy that also has Iron Windmill Daisy Wirestock #814! I wanna open it so badly.

    PS: BB, did you ever build that display case for yours?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    pcp4me,

    As I have stated, the .410 is just as powerful as a 12-gauge; it simply throws far less shot. But the shot it does throw goes just as fast as shot from the bigger gauge.

    The .410 is therefore the weapon of the excellent shotgunner. Although 28 gauge has assumed that role in recent times, the .410 has always been the l
    king of sporting guns.

    However, because of the extremely light recoil, the common perception is that a .410 is a youth shotgun. That's a tough break for kids, because it is so much harder to kill with the small shot charge of the gun.

    I was never good enough to use a .410 for any sport. I wish I was, but no dice. So I shoot 12s and 20s. But if I could hit what I shot at, a .410 would be my gun, because it's enough to do the job.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Slinging Lead,

    No, I haven't built it yet.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,

    thanks…454 Casull, 45LC.

    dsw

  • FRED Says:

    Slinging Lead,

    my RWS 52 has the UTG mount specified (no droop). When I mounted the Leapers scope to it with Weaver Rings, the POI was within the black and just a few clicks away from the POA. I guess your used 52 is just showing the signs of being used and different.

    Fred PRoNJ

  • Bub Says:

    Just like airguns are not just for kids. .410's are not all just for kids. There are a number of companies that make what I would consider high end .410 shotguns. Remington even offers one in their 1100 series shotguns and you can find companies offering over/under guns that run upwards of 2k.

    Bub

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB, someone asked you a long time ago about a review on slingshots including velocity, types, etc. Would you think about doing that sometime?
    HK

  • Dillon Says:

    Hi B.B. and crew,

    I got into air rifles a few months ago and my research lead me to land on the .22 cal RWS 34 as my perfect air rifle. School and Winter set in with a vengeance and my outdoors time plummeted. My interest in air rifles fell to the wayside. Now that this weekend was a lovely 77 degrees and I did some shooting with a friend's, I'm right back into my interest, but I've lost most of the stored knowledge I had. I'm planning on buying my 34 soon and I remember picking this (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Leapers_5th_Gen_3_9x40_AO_Mil_Dot_Rifle_Scope_with_R_G_1_Tube/659) scope for it before school started. Before I make any kind of mistake, I want to confirm that this scope would fit a 34, or could be used with a mount that fits the 34.

    Can you clear this up for me? If not, what might be a better (cheaper?) scope for small game and target shooting?

    Thanks for the help,

    Dillon

  • Mel Says:

    BB,

    one thing I'd like to add is that the bright plastic parts on the Cometa sights are NOT fibre-Optic elements! They are molded plastic with a fluorescent color in it. That's a whole different story. Optic fibres catch a cone of light and concentrate it on a small spot – the colorful plastic catches more light, but is not concentrating it on one spot.

    It would be very interesting if you could test these sights in a low-light situation, and see if they perform similar to a real fibre-optic system (I doubt it).

    It would b

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    HK,

    I vaguely remember that. What has it been? Five years?

    I am not up on slingshots. Are you perhaps the person to write a guest blog on the subject?

    B.B.

  • CJr Says:

    To the guy asking about noise between 1077 and Marauder back about 9:22am,

    Holy cow! Why are you comparing these two guns with each other?! This is the second time I've seen this question lately.

    Let me say this, the 1077 is a quiet CO2 in it's own right and the Marauder, in my opinion, is the quietest PCP made so far.

    You must make up your mind, do you want a CO2 or a PCP? Do you want to spend $78 or $400?

    Exactly what is your motive for the sound level comparison? Are you trying to win a bet or buy a gun? If you're buying a gun get the Marauder!!!! Since you even mentioned it you must be able to afford it. Get it!

    -Chuck

  • Mel Says:

    HK,

    in case you are interested in slingshots, their velocities etc…check out my webpage: http://www.melchiormenzel.de
    and my slingshot forum http://slingshots.myfreeforum.org

    BB, if you want a guest blog about slingshots, give me a call! melchiormenzel(at)googlemail.com

  • Anonymous Says:

    Cdr, Thanks for your input. I asked to have a question cleared up not a lecture. I should have known better. Bing

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hey BB, Off the topic, sorry. I want to put a dot site on my rws lp8 not sure if all will stand up to the spring action. Any ideas? Mike

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Mike,

    I have no experience with the LP8 and optics, but the gun doesn't recoil that much. So unless the sight is really a weakling, it should hold up.

    B.B.

  • Frank B Says:

    Bing,I guess that's just your way of thanking someone for sharing knowledge? Ps.This question is rhetorical….

  • ajvenom Says:

    Hey Ivan, welcome..I hope you have better luck with you red dot. Let us know how it holds up.

    Hey Vince – Thanks for all the affordable tips. I may that rebarrel on my freinds marksman pistol. I kinda had a feeling it wasn't going to be the best shooter in the world. At one point I was even doubting there were really BBs coming out of it.

    Wow, Nick and Derrick, if really added pages to your blog. I like the indexing. Of course I am going to read them all.

    Hey, Chuck…lol….btw what is quieter a 1077 or a marauder…just kidding…I bet a marauder could be quieter if set to a lower power setting, but full power my guess may be the 1077 may be lower. Both listed as a 2 for PA sound specs. If it's that close, I feel it shouldn't matter either.

    Slinging Lead – 40 bucks is a good price. I think mine was around 75 or so. Not much too them….so they should last a long time. I can't tell you how many times I've been beaten out from a sale..I think wacky wayne has beaten me to a sale…4 minutes one time….really 4 minutes and it was gone. Perhaps Frank, BB you and I should start a wire stock BB competition gathering. OK I x-rayed my box…and judging by the measurements, it should shoot…..

    Perhaps we could all meet at Mr. B's place for cofee sometime.

    Cometa 400, not always taken so well by new comers as they are springers and tend to take some practice to shoot, but are popular in the UK boards, which is how I heard about them.

    A well known realitor, who lives in town here, owns a lot of really nice shotguns. Most of the time he is usually seen shooting an old beat up remington 12 guage pump and a an old .410 single shot that he would give up for anything. The pump he uses on birds and the 410 on deer and he wouldn't have it any other way.

  • ajvenom Says:

    Hey Mel,,,, thanks for clearing up some of those things about the cometa sight and sling shots….

    Bing…maybe chuck didn't have his coffee yet….ok Mr. B. where's that cofee?

    Volvo, BG Farmer, PC4me..nice to see some familiar face. Wondering how twotalon is doing? Also, hello DSW, AlanL, Mike and anyone else who is here. Been seeing a lot of posting here lately. Hopefully that's a good sign. Maybe not for BB who tries to keep up with everyone. Also, nice to see Edith (BBs wife) posting too from time to time.

  • ajvenom Says:

    btw…I can't spell, write, shoot or sometimes even talk…but I do enjoy your company…

    ok… coffee…. I think is correct. I've only started drinking it lately to save money. Folger's milder blends I can handle.

  • Frank B Says:

    Can anyone tell me what signifigance the word SILE with a line under it means on a german airgun stock??I'm certain I have seen this before,but unsure of the relevance. thank you

  • Anonymous Says:

    This is offtopic, but I'm curious… Does Daisy still make the Powerline 177x? I know they have the 22SG and the 880, but I can't seem to find anything on the 177x.

    J.

  • ajvenom Says:

    Slinging lead, I think for for around 29.00 plus 2.50 ship you can get an 853 front and rear sight woth inserts through Daisy or a 4x leapers AO scope at PA for a little more plus mounts. I'm sure there are plenty of used sights out there too. It's a real affordable indoor shooter for those rainy days you just don't feel like going out. I recommend rws R10 rifle and jsb exact heavies.

    I also, wonder if one handy if they could just order the stock spacer w/ csrew and drill a couple holes and add it to a 953.

    There…you don't see me for a while…I'll be shooting…shooting and shooting….

    take care you all,

    -AJ

  • Anthony Says:

    BB,

    Yesterday was shootin' sunday, and the new kid on the block at the club was an Edgun Matador. Quite an strange gun. I can't avoid remembering the 'Call of Duty' game with its bullpup design. Unfortunately, I couldn´t get much data, but perhaps later, if someone interested, could make a gust blog or at least a little report. It is a interesant piece of gun, even more knowing that it's hand-made on a Russian basement or garage.

    But I liked the gun. Quite strange, again, but is deadly accurate, very lightweight, only I didn't like that trigger. I expected something better, to say truth.

    It would be nice that you could run a complete test in one of those little Russians…

    Anthony

  • CJr Says:

    Anony 1077/Marauder,
    You cannot ask a question on this blog without getting either a lecture or more info than you ever wanted. :-) I hope you paid attention because there will be a closed book test tomorrow.

    -Chuck

  • ajvenom Says:

    Sile in firearms rifles I've seen as an Italian Stock maker as seen on some Enfields, Parker Hales and Sharps. Some may have been distributed by a company in CT USA.

    WOW, Edgun Matador, what a odd puppy. Seen bullpup designs made from resin and comes in three lengths. There maay be some carbine models out there. Try Tony R. in the yellow for anymore info.

  • Frank B Says:

    AJVenom,right on….thank you that makes sense.I found the marking on my FWB 300 universal type 2 when I took it out of the stock.The stock is pretty elaborate,with 2 separate combs.One is high,one is low and both are adjustable for height.I wonder if this is an aftermarket "marriage" or a factory "stock"stock???

  • Dillon Says:

    Anyone know anything about RWS 34s and scopes? (See my post above)

    Thanks again,

    Dillon

  • ajvenom Says:

    Frank B. wow..I keep forgetting you have a FWB 300…..you have to stop mentioning that before I short out my keyboard from excessive drooling.

    Thanks Mrs. Slinging Lead for your part in the great distraction.

    I finally got a chance to read your comment SL on emailing airgunaddict….LOL..you know that was his 3rd posting on that airgun….I always tell my wife I'm selling one after I buy a new one to balance out the purchase. Of course I don't tell her when….maybe soon…maybe 20 years from now.

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    .410 must be having some kind of rebirth — I guess the some of the online "experts" are getting tired of aching shoulders from using 12G 31/2" rounds on everything. I have 12G only, for the sake of simplicity, economy, and versatility, not because there's anything wrong with others.

    AJ,
    Hi yourself. Glad you are liking the 853 — should be a great rifle for a long while.

    WV: padmala. Umm…Reminds me, when is the next Top Chef?

  • Frank B Says:

    AJVenom,I only mentioned it to see if there was any correlation between FWB and SILE,not to make anyone jealous,I swear.The way you shoot,you would probably be better with it than I am.They say it shoots 630fps and .06 CTC.I really wish you lived next door….You could shoot it till you got tired of it.It has been in competition for over 20 years in Germany.Right now I am finishing a TYRO from J.Maccari for it.If you want one I can hook you up with Jim Edmundson,a 10 meter coach from Thousand Oaks Ca.

  • ajvenom Says:

    Frank B – I was only joking….if you seen me shoot with open sights you'd laugh yourself silly. The 853 is about all I can afford and is enough for what I do. But it's always nice to have something to dream about.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Frank,

    I grew up in Thousand Oaks.

    AJ, Hi youraelf. sounds like you've been havin fun.

    BG, yeah this .410 thing is kinda buggin me. Good buggin, though. I have and old Mossberg bolt action way back in the closet somewhere. All this talk has got me thinkin of getting it working. (has ejection problems). Ha! that reads weird!

    DSW

  • Anonymous Says:

    signing off

    DSW

  • Bobby Nations Says:

    Dillon,

    I hunt with a Ruger AirHawk, which is the Chinese clone of an RWS 34 rifle. The Leapers scope that you have chosen should work just fine on it. I have actually owned that scope at one time mounted on a Remington Summit, and it's a great little scope for the money. The only complaint that I had was that the AO was stiff.

    For hunting, I actually prefer a fixed magnification, specifically 6X or better. Though I use a 4x32AO a good bit also, the 6X adds about 10 to 15 yards to my effective range for confident head shots. So, you might look into a Leapers Bug Buster also. I owned the CentrePoint equivalent, and it was awesome. The Tasco 3-9X32AO Golden Antler gets good reviews and is about $20 cheaper most places than the Leapers. But, it's not sold by PyramydAir.

    Your big problem is going to be mounting the thing on the lousy scope rail that Diana puts on their rifles. Therefore, I'd recommend that you buy one of the UTG mounts for RWS Diana rifles that solve both the lousy rail and the lockup tolerance problems that many Diana's have straight from the factory. My AirHawk, though improved in a couple of very significant ways, is afflicted with the Diana droop, so I use an adjustable mount on it.

  • duskwight Says:

    B.B.,

    Congratulate me :)
    I finally found the trigger design I wanted so much for my project.

    Funny, but that's the design from an airgun we discussed at my previous comments – Rutten/Browning Vectis 220.

    It's just what I need – mechanism is long and flat, action is "Rekord"-like and quite easy to machine.
    So all I needed is just to redesign safety – to make it a side lever instead of central pushbutton, as center is occupied by cocking lever and give it some better metal, just to be sure. And there it is – my project finally has the trigger :)
    Computer modeling says it'll work fine, however I'd rather first make it out of high-carbon and test it "to kill" then I'll make it from steel alloy and use.
    So, I hope 90% of drawing is done (cocking lever is to be designed shortly) then some time to re-check drawings and digitally model and test all parts.
    Digital modeling and testing IS the Way :)
    Sometimes it helps to get rid of as much as 30-50 grams of unneeded metal, especially from massive steel parts. Duralumin and titanium rule :) but of course nothing can replace ol' trusted steel.
    Whew, I hope it'll work – tri-caliber, single-shot or repeater, modular and fully adjustable to user like AR-15 and easy to produce, use and maintain like AK. Amen.

    duskwight

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    J.,

    According to the Blue Book of Airguns, the 177X was discontinued in 2006.

    B.B.

  • duskwight Says:

    Dear Anthony,

    Edguns are made not in garage or basement. They are made from raw ore and birch wood by bare hands and teeth by some vodka-reeking bearded guys deep in caves beneath Ural mountains :)
    There, poor fellows consider an axe or hammer a heavenly tool. Such phenomena as "digital modeling and engineering", "CNC machining" "laser cutting and welding", "titanium" or "high precision tooling" – their poor language doesn't even have words for them, trust me :)

    duskwight

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Anthony,

    The Russians are making a surprising number of novel PCPs these days. The Edgun Matador bullpup is among them.

    But whenever they are asked about importation at the SHOT Show, there is always some reason the guns are not yet quite ready for mass production.

    I think their manufacturing methods border on the cottage industry, which keeps them pricey and off the general markets. They are handmade boutique guns.

    I can't test every boutique airgun around, because there isn't enough time. The best thing to do is read the reports from around the world of those who manage to buy a gun and test it for themselves.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Duskwight,

    Congratulations on finding a trigger design that will work for your gun. And thanks for answering that Edgun question.

    You go to a lot of trouble to build your guns, so I am guessing the results are pretty fantastic. Maybe when this one is completed you could treat us all to some pictures and a short report on its performance? Not a guest blog, just in the comments section.

    B.B.

  • Vince Says:

    Bobby Nations, in what ways is the Air Hawk an improvement over the Diana?

  • duskwight Says:

    B.B.

    Maybe that's "the voodoo" behind all this – it's useless to go against all odds if you're not planning on doing something really special :)
    And yes, you're right – they are something in between small-series and single-made boutique guns, albeit not as pricey as imported British ones – Edgun is about 1100 USD in RRs.
    There's a steady market for them here and no shortage of Edguns for everyone who wants to own one.
    On the other hand you can buy Izh-60 PCP conversion kit for $350 and using some time and straight hands get almost the same results – hammer-forged Izh barrels are quite good, no matter the powerplant behind it.

    If I'll be lucky with building my project, a report and pics are a must.

  • Bobby Nations Says:

    Vince,

    The AirHawk uses an articulated cocking linkage, so the slot in the forearm is much shorter. Plus, it has a normal set of dovetails machined into the chamber with a positive scope stop at the end. I've had zero issues mounting a scope, aside from barrel drop.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,

    Thanks for checking that for me. I suspected they'd dropped it since no one seemed to stock it anymore and it wasn't on Daisy's website, but I wasn't sure. So I figured I'd ask.

    Well, looks like I'm back to saving for a Daisy 880 or Daisy 22SG since the Crosman 2100 doesn't to want to group.

    J

  • ajvenom Says:

    duskwight…let us know when you start selling trigger mods for airguns…

    J..my 2100 likes rws superdomes and gamo hunter pellets. Beeman coated hollow points work great for hunting.

  • duskwight Says:

    ajvenom

    Sorry, but that's way out of my plans. I believe I'm no competitor to CharlieDaTuna and, since he's making Gamo/Theoben type triggers and the rest of the spingers have better trigger performance – I'm afraid I'll have no niche on the market :)
    However, considering triggers for springers I've seen some real pieces of work ;) If you have ever held MP-512, then you know what "heavy single-stage trigger" is. A guy nicknamed SBA made and sold several (two dozen or so) Rekord-type two-stage fully adjustable triggers for it. Funny thing is that he kept overall size and number of pins intact. That's what I call "art" – and I'm just a poor copyist.

  • Dillon Says:

    Bobby Nations,

    Thanks for the help. I knew there was some kind of a mounting issue but I couldn't remember the specifics. I'll definitely look into those other scopes too. Your help is greatly appreciated!

    Dillon

  • Anonymous Says:

    ajvenom,

    I appreciate the recommendation. And I may look into the pellets you mentioned if I can either find them locally or get enough money scraped up to order them online. However I honestly don't think its the fault of the pellets.

    My Crosman 2100 was shooting 4-inch groups at 50 feet from a bench with a 4x scope. I honestly don't think it was the Daisy wadcutters I was using that were causing the problem. (Though next time I get a nice day I think I'll test that hypothesis by trying some other pellets I've got laying around.) They may not have been the gun's accuracy load, but even with a cheap wadcutter, the groups shouldn't have been that big.

    Honestly I think what's going on has more to do with the fact that when I sent the gun to Crosman's service department back in late December/early January for some repairs minor, they replaced the new gun I got for Christmas with a re-manufactured gun. And since it took 10 days for them to even touch the gun after they got it the last time (and at least 18 days round trip), I'm not especially eager to spend the $10 to ship the gun to them again in the hopes they can "fix" it. Hence why I'm going to be saving my pennies for a Daisy 880…

    J

  • Anthony Says:

    Duskwight,

    Thanks for the info. I await that report anxiously!

    Greetings,

    Anthony

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