by B.B. Pelletier
Crosman’s Mark I Target is a beautiful single-shot air pistol. It resembles the Ruger Mark I.
Ruger’s Mark I was a pistol worthy to be copied.
I am writing this report at the request of a reader, but also because I feel it’s worth telling the full story. I did a very brief report about it back in 2005, when I hadn’t yet developed my formula for airgun tests. As a result, that report is very thin and leaves a lot out. I also wrote another brief report about the LD modification that Mac 1 does to this platform; but, once again, that wasn’t too detailed.
For those readers who are new and might wonder where they can up look this sort of stuff, I use the excellent Blue Book of Airguns, eighth edition as a guide. If you want to be in the know regarding airguns past and present, you need a reference library, and this excellent resource should be the cornerstone.
The Crosman Mark I and Mark II target pistols began production in 1966. The .22 caliber Mark I stopped production in 1983, and the .177-caliber/BB-caliber Mark II continued until 1986. There were two main variations of both models. The first version featured adjustable power and lasted through 1980, and the second variation continued to the end of production for each model. These guns were produced right at the time America transitioned from .22 to .177 caliber as the principal airgun caliber of interest. The market influence of Air Rifle Headquarters, and especially Beeman Precision Airguns, was what made that change inevitable.
Both pistols are very similar, except for the calibers. The .22 caliber Mark I was made as a single-shot target pistol, but the Mark II was suitable for either lead pellets or steel BBs. It had what I have in the past called a “compromise” barrel, which means the rifling was designed to allow the use of steel BBs without damage. I’ve tested Mark IIs and found them to be surprisingly accurate with lead pellets, though not so with the smaller BBs. The loading bolt on the Mark II has a magnet at the tip to hold the BB in place until the shot is fired, because the bore is too large to restrain it. But lead pellets are sized to fit into the rifling and they’re seated into the breech exactly as the .22 pellets are, which is just past the gas transfer port. But one interesting thing was perhaps learned from the Mark II bolt.
The magnetic tip of the Mark II bolt is thinner than the tip of the Mark I bolt, and that may have given airgunsmiths the idea of reducing bolt thickness at this critical gas-flow point to allow more gas to flow past. It’s right at the transfer port, which is essential to the gun’s performance. Whether this is true or not, I don’t know, but thinning the bolt tip is now a standard trick in the power modification of the Mark I.
Today, you’ll see many more .22 caliber pistols of this type than were originally made. That’s because many .177 Mark IIs were rebarrelled with premium .22 pellet barrels because of the power potential of the pistol. That’s not to say you can’t get a pistol rebarreled with a premium .177, but .22 caliber is by far the most desirable. You can tell a Mark II by the presence of black plastic grips, while the Mark I has a reddish-brown grip. But grips are easily swapped between the guns, so this is not a positive I.D. You have to read the frame to know for sure how your pistol started life.
This pistol runs on a 12-gram CO2 cartridge that fits neatly into the grip. My stock pistol gives me about 45 powerful shots on one cartridge. You’ll find out how powerful that is in Part 2. My gun was resealed by Rick Willnecker about 10 years ago, and it still holds and shoots well. Of course, there have been numerous modifications to this gun, including the attachment of bulk tanks under the grip that supply gas for hundreds of shots. With longer barrels and certain other mods, the Mark I can be a very powerful air pistol, clear up to 12 foot-pounds.
The gun was patterned after Ruger’s Mark I .22 target pistol. Crosman engineers with whom I’ve spoken tell me they were enamored with the Ruger style, to the extent that Crosman took the grips a full step beyond Ruger and made it extremely ergonomic. With a thumbrest on the left side (sorry, southpaws), it feels extremely comfortable in the hand and the weight seems to disappear. There are aftermarket grips, but I’ve never found a pair I liked better than the factory plastic grips supplied by Crosman.
The operation of loading is separate from that of cocking. The loading bolt simply pushes the pellet into the breech and seals the breech against gas loss. Cocking is accomplished by pulling forward on two round knobs located on either side of the receiver. The first click is low power and the second is high. I seldom use low power because the trigger has some creep on that setting, while on high power the trigger is almost as crisp as glass.
The bolt simply opens the breech for loading.
Once the bolt is closed, the breech is sealed from gas loss.
The cocking knobs are forward of the trigger. Pull forward one or two clicks.
The sights are fully adjustable for windage by the “push me-pull you” method. You loosen a screw on one side, then tighten the other side to push the sight sideways. Remember to move the rear sight in the direction you want the pellet to go. Elevation is more straightforward by a simple screw that elevates the rear notch against it’s own spring leaf.
Windage is via two opposing screws. Elevation is more traditional.
A Patridge with a sharp undercut to eliminate glare. Just like the Ruger.
The front sight is a target Patridge type with a deep undercut to eliminate glare. It is razor-sharp and, together with the rear notch, makes a sight picture you can really work with. I’ve shot two-inch offhand groups at 50 feet with my Crosman Mark I, which is about the same I can do with a Ruger .22 Mark I.
I have the power adjustment screw on my pistol, though I never bother adjusting it. The gun shoots so well that I don’t see the need to screw around — pun intended. However, for this report, I will demonstrate the velocity range the screw gives so you know what can be expected.
The finish is a black gloss paint, though many of these pistols have been refinished by now. And when custom barrels are installed, they’re often blued instead. The pain flakes off easily on some pistols, but there are many people who will refinish your gun if you don’t want to.
The barrel is eight inches long, which comes as a surprise to many shooters. It sits so far back in the action that it appears to be two inches shorter. The rifling is very often extremely good, so a Mark I can be a real shooter without any modifications. Modern high-quality pellets will boost performance to a level the original Crosman “ashcan” pellets were not able to achieve. We’ll see about this in the accuracy test.
A handsome airgun in all respects, the Crosman Mark I is a true classic.
I have heard that black color of the guns is achieved with controlled oxidising in a process of making guns ,the process i think is called browning on english(on my language BRUNIRANJE),word brown comes from the fact that before modern browning similar effect is been achieved with iodine (correct me if i am wrong it is purely from some old memory)
I have one question for you guys ,here it goes now-is it or not red squirrel protected specie in USA ,i ask that because i know for grey but searching information about 634 i stumbled along the way on something about “it can kill red squirrel” ,i meant to said – if it is not protected it would be such a shame ,it is a beautiful creature…
In the state that I’m in, the red squirrel is included with fox , grey, and black squirrels as game species. Allowed 6 total each day during hunting season.
They are so small in comparison to other squirrels that they are not worth hunting for meat.
When I was a lot younger, they could be shot any time of the year, and without a limit. I used to feed them to our cats.
twotalon
simply said, DISGUSTING!
rikib
Milan:
Red Squirrels are protected in the UK but the American greys with their flash uniforms,chewing gum and silk stockings are not 🙂
DaveUK
Dave -this is completely off topic but remember when i said to you that only time i have seen a squirrel was in Rovinj-it was eastern grey ,now i dont think that we have something to protect reds are gone 🙁 !For reds destiny is more black then grey
If you European guys want some more red squirrels, then come on over and take all you want.
You can also have all the starlings, sparrows, pidgeons, norway rats, nutria, iguanas, pythons, zebra mussels, snakeheads, coyotes, and a few other things.
twotalon
Twotalon-we have zebra mussels (in fact this is their home town-river -Danube),nutria-protected ,sparrows-protected,pigeons-protected,norway rat might as well be protected :),python still waiting for shipping 😉 ,coyotes -half protected (we call this doggy čagalj),snakeheads -Dave have them somewhere ;)….here only i am not protected ….
You want some mosquitos, horse flies, and deer flies? We would be glad to share with you.
Those zebra mussels seem to have helped in our great lakes for now. They eat all the crud in the water. The lakes are much cleaner looking than they used to be.
When I was a small boy, you could almost walk across lake erie to Canada if you had large feet. It was really bad.
twotalon
Twotalon mosquitos are our no1 problem ,you can get 200 bites in just 10 min (or more i dont know exactly)but i know that city Vukovar is under aerial assault ,horse flies we got them too(mainly near the river)b ut mosquitos I HATE THEM ,o yea sheep flies -we unfortunately got them too 🙁
We could send you some gnats! We even have festivals named for them!
rikib
Rikib saw it on TV 😉
Riddle me this ,riddle me that -what is Dave talking about 😉 🙂 🙂
I think that i know what you mean 😉 nobody likes grey in color
Milan: I live in Western NY, and we have lots of red squirrels. They are not protected here and are considered a pest species in our game regulations. The black squirrels are a color phase of the eastern grey squirrels and the black version seems to be a geographically influenced. My state and southern Ontario, Canada have a large population of the black phase of easten grey squirrels. About 20% of the squirrels I harvest are black. We have very few of the larger fox squirrels, they inhabit areas further south of me. I will take the reds but leave them alone even though they are not protected, until regular squirrel season starts. I do not kill anything in the breeding season, unless it becomes a intolerable distuctive pest. The exceptions would be rats& mice which I kill with a passion at every opportunity, Robert.
As long as we are talking about squirrels, has anyone ever been to the VietNam War Memorial in Washington D.C. and seen the oven-stuffer gray squirrels there? They live on handouts from tourists and must weigh more than five pounds! They don’t scamper about. They waddle!
B.B.
B.B. unfortunately i have never been there 🙁 but this year i have opportunity to visit Texas and at least learn english a little bit better .Grey squirrels are invasive specie so what can i say -Italy also have a problem with them and eastern Croatia somehow they destroyed population of european red squirrels .
Never been there, but have made some observations over the years.
Tree rats that are well fed tend to be larger and more plentiful than those that are stretched to the limits by their environment.
If squirrels are running on the small side, then you can be sure that you will not bag many, and you will find no fat on them when you clean them. The population in the area will be low and stay that way because the few that are left are having a hard time surviving. This makes hunting them in some locations nearly pointless.
Areas with an abundance of den trees and heavily producing nut trees will support huge quantities of squirrels…to the point that you will get sick of eating them.
twotalon
Milan:
I was joking about the American grey squirrels being in Britain by using a WWII analogy.
In comparison to Britain’s soldiers the American troops and airmen were very stiff competition in the romance stakes during the war.
My Grandma for instance joined the American Red Cross rather than the British because the uniform was better looking amongst other things.LOL
DaveUK
Mine were all in Partis(z)an s 🙂 back then with British support we were best allies 😉
Milan,
Where I live in Missouri we have an over abundance of fox and grey squirrels but almost no reds and no blacks. The American red squirrel prefers almost exclusively the seeds of conifers so is found where there are large conifer stands.
Central Missouri is predominantly a hard wood area so they are seldom if ever found here. In almost all areas where they are found they are very plentiful and not protected.
But these are not to be confused with the Eurasian red squirrel which is a completely different species.
pcp4me -i took the liberty to read something on Wiki. about that- AND I AM NOT JUDGING anyone 🙂 ,after all who am i to judge ,but killing the reds makes more place for greys and they are invasive specie ,in whole history invasive species have done nothing good for environment ps. just my opinion
You are right about invasive species. Importing something that does not fit into the natural system is going to be bad for something.
Perhaps we have been the worst of the invasive species. We have messed up everything.
twotalon
And we still do…. 🙁 not long ago hunters have killed raccoon dog here in Croatia and another one in Serbia ,we never had this thingy here but now we have ….
That is one statement that I totally agree with!
rikib
Milan,
Yes you are correct. In portions of Europe where American grey squirrels were introduced they did indeed displace your red squirrels. So if you lived in these areas of Europe then the preferred target should have been the greys.
But keep in mind European red squirrels are a completely different species than our red squirrels. Here things are different.
Our red squirrels prefer large stands of conifer trees. Greys prefer very dense hard wood forests and fox squirrels prefer open hard wood forests. So while they do over lap territories frequently, here it is very unlikely that one species comes in and completely displaces the other as they prefer completely different type of habitat.
Fox squirrels are the preferred game species simply because they are the largest squirrel. However when I was younger we were very poor and the limit was 5 or 6 and I shot what ever happened in front of my sights as we needed the meat! I hunted 4 or 5 days per week and killed my limit most days. We ate a LOT of squirrels in those days along with rabbits, quail, and an occasional turkey.
And no matter how many squirrels I shot, I had access to thousands of acres of forested land with a population of several squirrels per acre, so there was no shortage of squirrels to shoot.
Ever try to eat a red that has been feeding on pine cones? They smell and taste really bad.
We have reds in the hardwood around here. They live in any hole the right size for them to get into. They eat nuts like the fox and grey do. They also eat things like maple seeds.
Our squirrels run in clusters by species also. Sometimes they are mixed, but usually one kind will be dominant. The blacks seem to be more localized than the others.
Council Bluffs Iowa used to advertise ‘ Come see our black squirrels’.
twotalon
pcp4me -thank you i was a little bit confused.So thanks for claryfing this 😉
Matt61,
Just read your comment from yesterday about lighter loads in the .45 auto. When we shot bullseye pistol (in a past life) we reloaded lead semi-wadcutters with a minimal powder charge. The goal was to find a powder charge that gave just enough power to cycle a given gun 100% of the time, reduce recoil to speed up sight recovery on the rapid-fire stage and deliver enough accuracy. I’ll check and see if I still have the load data. It was a real pussycat.
Sorry to get off topic but someone told me to post on the latest blog in hopes of getting answers to my question.
I am planning to buy my 8 year old son his 1st Air Rifle for his Bday so I can teach him how to shoot.
My son, wife and I will all be using the same rifle also.
Use for it is to teach both my son and wife how to shoot and just general backyard fun.
Looking for help on what type of Air Rifle to buy that should fit our needs for our 1st Air Rifle 😀
I personally have never shot an Air Rifle but have shot a BB Pistol before. Also shot a few other types of small arms and various other weapons in my Infantry time a few years ago. So I am thinking I should know enough to help teach them the proper use and safety of the Air Rifle I want to start them with.
(Then of course plan to progress to a real rifle and pistol later on 😀 )
What I want:
Able to be used by all 3 of us (8 year old son, my wife and I), good accuracy, able to add a scope later, not too expensive for a 1st rifle.
Suggested Air Rifles:
Below are some that I think may fit our needs and others that have been suggested to us.
Not worried if my son will have difficulty cocking them as I will ALWAYS be there to supervise the shoots anyways and can do it for him until he can do it himself safely.
Daisy Avanti 499: main thing I don’t like about it is that its not scope-able and its not meant for 10m shooting.
Ruger Explorer: Looks like my son can handle it well and has some nice mods I can add later.
Crossman Raven: Same as the Ruger Explorer but I like the added FPS
IZH 61: Like the 5 round magazine and looks like my son can handle it. Too bad no Safety.
Hammerli 490: Was suggested that my son should be able to handle it as well. Also like the wood.
Daisy 953: read alot of good reviews on this. But unsure if my son can shoot it well. Looks like something he can grow into.
So what are the Pros/Cons of the above rifles against each other compared to our criteria?
Which would be the most accurate?
Kilim,
We use the terms airguns to differentiate them from firearms, because both are real.
Do not introduce a new shooter to a scope. They need to learn how to align open sights properly before they progress to the scope.
The Daisy 499 is a specialty BB gun. It is far more accurate than any other BB gun and is the only gun used at the International BB Gun Championships sponsored by Daisy and the JayCees. Therefore, it is recommended if your son ever plans to compete in that competition, held in Kentucky every year. The 499 is capable of putting 10 shots into a group the size of Roosevelt’s head on a dime at 5 meters when fired offhand. So pick it if you intend teaching your wife and son how to shoot competitively.
You do not want velocity (f.p.s.). You want accuracy. So concentrate on the things that offer accuracy over speed. And get a rifle that has open sights so you can teach them both how to shoot correctly. Save the scope for the day when both shooters can hit a quarter at 20 yards when shooting from a rest.
The Daisy 953 is probably a little too heavy and large for your son. Plus it takes about 20 pounds of effort to pump, which makes it difficult for a young person.
The Crosman Raven, Ruger Explorer and Hammerli 490 Express are all fine youth air rifles. And they each come with the open sights you will want to start them off with. My pick would be the Hammerli, but that is just a personal taste selection.
Here is a report series that deals with a parent teaching a new shooter how to shoot:
/blog/2010/07/single-mom-teaches-children-to-shoot-part-4/
Good luck and please let us know if we can help in any way.
B.B.
I think we can get the 499 later on IF we do choose to go competitive.
But for now I do want one that I can at least have an option to add a scope later.
I was actually leaning towards the 953 due to it being single shot and also have a 5 round magazine which REALLY appeals to me. (I will also be shooting it for fun also after all!)
I am not worried about my son pumping it as I will be around each shoot so I can do it for him per shot.
I even made him hold a 7 lb Fender Guitar as if it was a rifle just to see if he can do it and he seems fine.
The boy only will grow and my only thing why I guess I am rationalizing getting the 953 for us. But then of course the size of the 953 may teach him some bad habits even though I think he can grow into it 🙁
I guess due to his age and size, I really should get the youth versions you suggested so he can start right.
After reading that article I guess we can add the Air Venturi Bronco to the mix?
(And thanks for that article! Now I have a guideline to work on 😀 )
Comparing the Bronco, Raven, Explorer and 490:
Which would you consider the best overall out of them?
Which is the most accurate?
I vote for Bronco as always …..
Kilim,
Like BB says the 953 is too large and the 20 pound cocking effort too much for an 8 year old to handle. Do him and your self a favor. Go with BB’s recommendation of the Hammerli 490. He knows what he is talking about when it comes to youth rifles.
So I decided i will buy the Air Venturi Bronco to teach my 8 year old son and my wife to shoot 😀
With it I am planning to get the following:
* Crosman 850 Pellet & BB Trap
* Smith & Wesson Magnum Series Mini Clear Lens Safety Glasses, Fits Kids
* Smith & Wesson Magnum Black Frame Fog-free Safety Glasses (For me & Wife)
* Shooters Ridge Monkey Bag Gun Rest
* National Target 12 Bull Center Air Rifle Target
* Plano Rifle Case, Single, Scoped (Do have to store it well)
* RWS Rifle Shooter’s Kit, .177 Caliber (This should be good enough to maintain it right?)
Ammo:
I think I read in the article that the Premier Light was the best ammo for the Bronco?
* Gamo Match .177 Cal, 7.71 Grains, Wadcutter, 250ct
or
* Crosman Premier Light .177 Cal, 7.9 Grains, Domed, 1250ct
Future Buy:
* Leapers Golden Image 4X32AO Rifle Scope, Mil-Dot Reticle, 1″ Tube
Kilim, the Bronco is a good choice. But if fun is the goal, do not rule out the IZH 61 as an addition. It’s not expensive. It is plenty accurate enough and of a size that works for children and adults. The magazine is unsurpassed fun, and after all, the more you shoot the better you will be. In my experience the lack of a safety poses no problem whatsoever. Just redefine a loaded magazine as the safety. When the magazine is in, the rifle is ready to fire. When you want to make it safe, just eject the magazine. I’ve heard that there is a school of thought in which a safety actually makes things less safe by introducing another complicating detail to remember or forget. Not having a safety makes things very simple.
Matt61
Kilim,
Welcome! Glad you found your way to the most active portion of the blog.
Thrilling to hear about your commitment to teach your son and wife gun safety and shooting proficiency. Good for you.
I would encourage you to look into the Bronco a little more.
/product/air-venturi-bronco-air-rifle?m=2013
You may already know this but, on the Pyramyd AIR website, when you are looking at a specific model of rifle (like the bronco in the link I’ve given you above) in many instances if you look over on the right side you’ll see “Review/article/latest buzz”. If you click on that hyperlink it will take you to an indepth view of the gun. Usually a multi-part series. In addition to this great info about the specific model, don’t overlook the reviews that are below the specs.
kevin
So far I am torn between the Air Venturi Bronco vs the Hammerli 490.
Just looking at the quick comparison via the PA Site:
Bronco vs 490:
* Bronco has higher FPS (Bronco’s 600 FPS to 490’s 495FPS)
* Bronco heavier by 0.5 lbs
* Bronco has shorter barrell (9″ vs 18.87″)
* Bronco has shorter overall length (40″ vs 42.75″)
* Bronco has lighter trigger pull (2 lbs vs 6.8 lbs)
* Bronco has lighter cocking effort (18 lbs vs 19 lbs)
I personally like the look of the 490 (Darker wood appeals to me more) but I am somehow leaning more towards the bronco overall.
Of course I have NO Experience with both rifles.
So anyone that has experience with both:
Which is the best overall?
Which is the most accurate out of the 2?
I really doubt the Bronco has a lighter cocking effort. The first time I opened the breech on the Hammerli I had, I kept pulling the barrel back to see when the cocking effort was going to build up – and it never did! Very, very easy to cock, and no, the spring wasn’t broken.
But the Hammerli I had really needed work in the pivot area, and the overall construction wasn’t up to Bronco standards by any means. The Bronco trigger is indeed superior, and when you’re actually using the gun that means a lot.
Either gun can be quite accurate, but I might be inclined (between the two) to go Bronco.
Vince-not just that quality is on the Bronco side -you guys know that i have Slavia 631 and 634 and i guess that this makes me a collector 🙂 )but one thing i would like to ask B.B. why is it Bronco stock so bright !?
Milan,
The Bronco stock is so light because that was what I asked them to do. I was tired of muddy brown and reddish-brown stocks and I thought we could use a change.
B.B.
B.B. THANK YOU 🙂 you are wright this is a gun for young shooters -not for hunting so why not ,aether way it is a great gun …
I called PA and the CSR suggested the IZH 61 to me after telling her about my options and plan on buying it for the 8 year old: Raven, Explorer, 490, Bronco, 953, IZH 61.
She stated to me that the 490 and Bronco maybe a bit too heavy for an 8 yr old.
Also stating to me that the IZH 61 should be the most accurate due to the long barrel and most appropriate due to the weight and size.
I was set on the Bronco after reading up on the various rifles but now I am torn again.
Maybe I’m not such a newbie after all 😀
Yes, yes. Get the IZH 61. 🙂
Matt61
Kilim aka Superlube
Get the Bronco. I must admit to having no experience with the 490, but I did have a Bronco, before I gave it to my 14 year old nephew.
Your last three comparisons speak volumes. The Bronco has a lower cocking effort, not by much but still. I know you said you will be around to cock for him if necessary, but the sooner he can take over the better. Shorter rifle. The Bronco is almost 3″ shorter. Finally, the trigger. The Bronco has a magnificent trigger. It is light and crisp, and has two blades which adds some safety. I don’t know anything about the 490 trigger, but it would have to be darn good to equal the Bronco. Heavy triggers can kill accuracy.
The Bronco also has an automatic safety, which I don’t like for adults, but it is probably better for kids than a manual one. Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. Once you learn how to hold it, and find the right pellet, you will be rewarded. I don’t care for the blonde wood either, but it is nearly all wood and metal gun with almost no plastic. If you are handy, you can sand and stain the stock to your liking.
happy shooting.
Whatever you get, don’t agonize over it too much. You can always buy another. You might just have the makings of a future airgun addict.
Superlube?
Somebody named “Superlube” asked the identical question just a few days ago, and his son was turning 8 as well . . .
What’s that song, “It’s a Small World”. Sometimes it is hard to back track though the blog and the search engine leaves you searching. 🙂
rikib
Not a great name, but I’ve been called worse.
And definately memorable.
Superlube
Sorry, I confused you with someone that asked the identical question for an 8 year old. Normally, I would scold myself for being so stupid, but you can see where a guy would get mixed up.
There can be only one Superlube.
Ahh, you have been sucked in too huh? The more the merrier. You could not have chosen a better place.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Going for the bronco myself.
Cocking effort-not an issue! An 8 year old MUST be supervised while using all things projectile, and if he can’t cock it, he can’t use it and break a window if he somehow gets it without you knowing.
The IZH61 is an exellent start for an adult, but not for a child in my opinion because of the lack of a safety. After he learns trigger control yes, but not until then. My IZH is more accurate than I am at 20 yards with open sights (mostly because I don’t get out enough), and has a fantastic trigger, making no popcan or dinger within that range safe.
It’s official, after a few years of lurking, I’ve been sucked in. At least it’s a good place to get sucked in.
Superlube -Amen you got it 🙂 this would be my opinion too
Milan,
🙂 This is out of my realm. After reading many posts on here, as soon as I read the word “spring”, my mind says, “abort, abort, abort, problems ahead”. 😉 I’m just joking, but the up keep seems much more than on CO2 as I don’t shoot often. Very disapproving wife. I may have to get a tac light and laser to shoot at night after she goes to sleep 🙂 🙂 !
rikib
Rikib -you know and i know that life is FULL OF TROUBLES they are part of our lifes so spring rifles -sure there is a risk ,but keep in mind here where i live i cant even buy CO2 cartridge(or mabe i can but it is difficult….) and just like CJr i use what you i have – air is widely available 😉
Rikib-550-600 fps ….i dont think that this kind of “power” is spring braker so i think if it is close to Slavia 631-634 this gun will last 40 yrs or more and spring cant be too expensive (it is just what i think) take care 🙂
First I wanna make clear that I’m no expert and my opinion should be regarded as it is, just an opinion.
I own the Bronco and truly love it, I took the front sights (that looked too large for my taste) and parts of the rear sights one too to scope the rifle which looks very good to me this way. It is well balanced and shots exactly where I want. A really good buy, I’d recommend that rifle to without hesitation.
Now I don’t own the hammerli BUT I do own the IZH 60 and I really like it a lot, it’s very accurate, it feels kinda cheap at first sight, probably because of the light weight but when you start shooting the thing WOW ! This is no cheap rifle ! I was afraid I wouldn’t like it because of the 2 actions required to shoot it but to my surprise it’s better engineer than I tought, when you grab the cocking lever the bolt retracts by itself, all that left to do is load and push the bolt back in. Since it’s so light you can feel the buzz and twang more than on the bronco but it’s not disturbing and the adjustable stock makes it easy to shot for different sized people.
Sorry for bringing back another rifle in the equation. Maybe you’d be better getting both 😉 because you’ll be wondering what you’re missing anyways, then you’ll want a CO2 powered one and then a bigger one and you’ll read about PCP’s and you’ll want one of those too, then you’ll want one in .22 and maybe add a few handguns and then you’ll realise that it’s too late and that you’re hooked and will only want more.
J-F
Kilim – I hate to add another gun into the mix, but… I bought my first airgun over 3 years ago and have been obsessed ever since. I’ve read all the reviews, watched all the videos, read all the blogs, bought 8 more guns, etc…
If I had to do the first airgun all over again, I would get the Benjamin Discovery combo with the pump. It is light weight, and is a nice “in betweeen” size. Not to big for the kids and perfect for dad to carry around all day. It is deadly accurate and much easier to shoot accurately than all of the springers you mentioned. It has a nice set of fiber optic open sights, and a dovetail you can add a scope to.
Not sure if you are familiar with pcp’s but there is a lot of info on them on this site. I guess the downside would be pcp’s are more “complicated” than a break barrel springer, but if you want pinpoint accuracy, a nice sized gun for kids and adults, and an excellent value, in my humble opinion, the discovery really fits the bill.
Good luck, I hope you enjoy whatever you choose! And be careful, airguns are hopelessly addictive!!
Aaron
Thank you very much Aaron, I had finally convinced myself that I could wait for the marauder pistol to come out to get into PCP’s and now I’m considering a discovery again…
I’m going for a short trip to the US soon and wanted to buy a Gamo Compact or Beeman P1/P11 on that occasion but now I’m not so sure anymore… a Discovery would sure be nice… but it’s so loud… what to do…
Hopelessly addictive you say… no kidding !
J-F,
There are alot of us shooting very quiet Discoveries courtesy of Mike at TKO. You can check them out at sales@tko22.com. His three screw trigger mod is another good one. You can also shoot the Discovery on CO2 which works great for back yard plinking.
Mr B.
I already though about that option but I doubt the muzzle break could be shipped to Canada.
I wrote to him to see if it can be done, if it’s doable I can see a Disco in my near future 😀
If you subtract the 179$ I would have had to pay for the pump when I buy the marauder pistol anyways the discovery almost becomes a sensible buy! 😉
J-F
TKO DOES ship the stage V muzzle break to Canada !
And that guy is FAST to answer emails :0 !
Man do I like great service.
The Benjamin Discovery is out of my budget unfortunately.
It also looked a bit more complicated to me.
So far from what I have been reading, the Bronco is the superior Youth Rifle to buy compared to the 490.
I guess I will go buy the bronco as our 1st Air Rifle 😀
Thanks for all the help!
I’m sure you won’t regret it.
BB: Although I have always admired the Crosman Mk 1&2 for their Ruger styling and wonderful adjustable trigger pull, do they really have any thing over the 2240 & 2300 series in practical value? I’ve always felt that for the price, even when they were available and quite cheap, that they were not as durable as their CO2 peer, the all steel 150, or as easy to work on. Now they sell used for a average of $150,and a new 2240 can be had for $59. The LD, while very nice, is well over $500, and resembles a carbine more than a pistol. Also, the cocking and loading takes two actions instead of one, and always seemed fiddly to me, Robert.
Robert,
Funny you should ask that, because a couple years ago I did a feature article for Shotgun News in which I compared the Mark I, an S&W 78G and a Crosman 2240. The two vintage guns felt and held much better than the 2240, but when it came time for accuracy testing, the 2240 was tops. I would not have predicted that before I conducted the test.
Still, I think a serious airgunner needs a good Mark I at least one time in his life. It holds like a Luger, which is another fine pistol that doesn’t quite live up to all its hype in the accuracy department.
And yes, the Mark I is harder to work on than the dirt-simple 150.
B.B.
Tom,
You have a web-based article that includes the Ruger & Crosman guns: Airguns that look like firearms. Scroll half-way down the page to see that section.
Edith
BB:
I agree with you on the Luger, cool gun that is VERY, VERY difficult to master. I know about that one. Light out front , heavy, squishy, trigger pull, and sketchy sights, but it points like pointing your finger. For use, the technique is point and a controled crunch of the trigger pull. On targets a foot square at less than 50 feet, and it is quite deadly. Off a solid,soft rest I can manage 2 1/2″ groups at twenty yards, but it takes so much concentration it makes your head hurt, and ruins you for any other pistol shooting for a week.
If I ever see a used MK 1 or 2 at a reasonable price I’m going to get one. How about a re-issue from Crosman? They re-issued the P-38 BB pistol. Maybe build it like the bull barrel Ruger model with the 1911 style grip frame. I believe it would sell well. BTW, I’m really enjoying the recent blog topics, thanks Robert.
B.B.,
Always like to see my 2240 mentioned in a quality manner. 🙂 I can’t afford most pistols/rifles discussed on here, but I enjoy reading about them.
rikib
BB,
Thank you for this blog on these fine pistols. I owned one in my youth till my youngest brother moved away from home and stole it from me. I would love to have one again but loathe to pay the prices they ask now.
My brother still has that gun only now the frame is stripped where the screw that tightens the CO2 cartridge goes through. Do you know any one who can fix that?
pcp4me,
You might contact Rick Willnecker about the CO2 cap on your gun. I don’t know if Rick has a fix for it or not.
B.B.
First picture in todays article brought a flood of memories with it.
I had a pest problem and bought a Mark I new in the early 1980’s to take care of those pests. I knew nothing about airguns. Didn’t do any research. The price and weight of the gun alone indicated to me that it would do the job. I got lucky in my choice. Great gun. Very accurate even with those old style pellets.
Unfortunately I read the owners manual that told me to never leave a charged CO2 cartridge in the gun. Since I only took one or two shots per CO2 cartridge it was expensive for my pest problem but worked well. What an idiot.
Once I solved my pest problem I gave the pistol to two boys. They shot that gun every weekend for years when they went to their cabin in the mountains. One of them graduated college last year and the other goes to college this fall. The Mark I is still going strong.
Great pictures today B.B. Really admire your photography skills.
kevin
Kevin,
Mac and Edith shamed me into taking more care when I take my pictures. When Mac did most of the photography while I was in the hospital a couple months ago, we were flooded with praise for his pics. So I’m trying harder to live up to the legacy he left me.
Also, the new blog format allows larger pictures, which helps a lot.
Finally, I now use a Canon G11 camera, which is the finest digital camera I have ever used. It makes it difficult to screw up too badly.
B.B.
B.B.,
Hmmm, a Canon G11. You seem to shamelessly delight in spending my money.
That cloth you’re using for a background is perfect for guns. The images just pop.
Hope everyone has a great weekend. I’m leaving for the cabin. Should be shooting in about 2 hours.
kevin
Kevin,
Let me show you the photo that sold me on this camera:
http://www.davidbergman.net/blog/how-i-made-a-1474-megapixel-photo-during-president-obamas-inaugural-address/
This photo is the combination of 220 Canon G10 images of the Obamah inauguration. When you zoom in you can see recognizable detail in the faces of the more than one million people in attendance. Even the snipers on the overwatching buildings can be recognized.
B.B.
The G-11 is a marvelous camera, and gives much smoother, less noisy, pix in low light and high ISO sensitivity than its predecessors. I use it’s baby brother, the S90 for almost anything, tho’ my C-20 photos were taken with a Nikon DSLR. BB, your blog pictures have really improved — they were never poor, but now they sparkle. Good going.
Wow. That’s impressive.
kevin
Robert,
I think a reissue of the Mark I is a great idea.
B.B.
Between the 1077 and this pistol, it looks like Crosman has a good thing going with copies of Ruger designs. Kevin’s reviews of his Mark III make me very curious. It’s not hard to see that the Mark I series is based on the Luger design, and I understand that grip angle for it was just about perfect. It is supposed to be very ergonomic and pointable.
Thanks for the info about lower-powered .45 ammo. I was afraid that lower bullet weight did not necessarily correspond to lower recoil. I’m thinking of just trying to reload for my M1 but will put the .45 ACP on my list of calibers.
Matt61
Matt,
I reload for many calibers, but for the thousands of .45 ACPs I make each year I have a dedicated Dillon Square Deal B press that can crank out an easy 300 cartridges an hour. The other cartridges all get reloaded on single-stage presses, but the .45 is high-production.
B.B.
Thousands! That sounds like paradise. How much does one of these Dillon Square Deal B presses run?
Matt61
Matt,
Well, new they run just under $400. I bought mine used for about $250 off Ebay. It had everything, plus Dillon sent me the parts to rebuild it for free. They offer a lifetime guarantee on their presses.
You can’t go wrong buying Dillon.
B.B.
BB
I love companies like this. Zippo lighters is another one. Though I no longer smoke, I own several of their lighters. I sent in my fathers Zippo which was in decent shape but the workings were corroded. He must have bought it at the Army PX because it has the Army emblem on it. Zippo polished up the case and put in all new internals for free. They even sent me a penny in a keychain that says “the penny never spent to fix a Zippo lighter”
Excellent company.
Hm, I’m getting into the toils of investment here. Am I right that you are reloading the .45 ammo for about 10 cents per round? The name of a good company is always useful.
Matt61
Matt,
I don’t amortize the cost of the reloading tools into the ammo cost, because I enjoy reloading as a hobby. Time and labor is also not accounted for.
A new primer costs about 2.5 cents. The powder for one cartridge costs another 2 cents. The bullets are free because I don’t pay for the lead I use to cast them, but the lubricating grease costs about 1-1.5 cents per bullet. At the worst, I pay 6 cents per round of .45 ACP I reload.
B.B.
Matt61,
I’m gonna jump in here.
Although cost is justification all by itself for reloading, the real benefit is being able to find the “recipe” that works best in your gun(s). Although off the shelf ammo distributors have introduced a more diverse variety than in years past, there’s no substitute for creating your specific formula that usually isn’t available from a retailer. I always felt better about quality control when I reloaded vs. some mysterious mix of loads (read inconsistent) all wrapped up pretty in one box.
Considering your anal nature (compliment) you’re a prime candidate for reloading.
kevin
My immediate concern is making a mistake and blowing up my guns or worse. But naturally, I would check everything. And unmechanical as I am by nature, I believe I could see my way clear to enjoying this at some point. Actually producing your own ammunition seems really neat.
Matt61
Matt61,
With quality presses (like current dillon presses) and all their add-on options (like dillon offers) you would really have to go out of your way to blow up your guns. With the internet, tried and true recipes are plentiful. Once upon a time all I had was the reloaders bible as a good reference and guide but the internet has wonderful resources from reliable shooters.
Get a 3 ring binder, put tabs in it for each of your guns and keep track of what loads are getting you closest to what you’re after. One mistake many male egos make it to think they can remember the recipe for their loads. Since you’re already into several firearms trust me when I say you can’t remember all the loads for all the guns.
Be smarter than me. From the beginning write down your recipes. Make notes about how they shot. In the future later when you’ve reloaded and shot enough of others recipes your performance notes will be invaluable when you have enough experience to start your own experimenting.
kevin
Matt,
All new reloaders have the same fear of blowing their guns up that you have. But most newbies are very safe, and knowing the attention you pay to small details I feel you would be, too.
The ones who blow up guns are those who disregard the warnings and common sense. For example, for the past 50 years gun writers have warned people to never shoot smokeless powder loads in shotguns that have barrels made of Damascus twist steel. When I was in high school this warning was popular. Yet I once went to a friend’s house and watched his father do exactly that–shoot a shotgun with Damascus twist barrels with smokeless loads.
He said, “Aw, it’ll be okay. These are just low-base shells!” And in just one shot, his shotgun came apart! No one was injured (I stood behind a wooden shed door when he pulled the trigger). And I instantly became the know-it-all friend who was no longer welcome at their house, since I had warned him and what I said came true.
But you wouldn’t do something stupid like that. You would follow the printed guidelines and check yourself ten times before shooting your reloads.
As Kevin said, the greatest benefit of reloading is I can get exactly the performance I’m looking for. I’m not held captive by five ammunition companies who think they know what I want. Most of the time I want a lower-powered cartridge with less performance, but just try to find those on the dealer’s shelf! The ammo companies load for all the macho guys who want to get kicked in the teeth to prove something to themselves. Or they load for the “f.p.s. guys” who are just like airgunners in wanting the last foot-second of velocity a cartridge can give.
Me? I just want to hit the target.
B.B.
I’ve never owned one of these air-pistols, but the first thing that came to mind when seeing the pictures was, “Hey! They look like Rugers!”. I have a Ruger Mk II. Love that 22 caliber pistol! It’s build solid, and very accurate.
Victor
One thing about the MK1 that I like is there are two different distance settings available with just one sight picture.I’m sure it is accidental and not a design feature,but aligning the front post with the center of the small notch but the height of the top of the sight frame gives you two possible ranges without changing anything.If you have one,try it!
BB, I have a Mark II and a Mark I1 22 cal LD. I seldom shoot either on high power. My stock Mark II has a great trigger pull on low power. The LD has the mushy pull you describe. I just love how quiet they are on low power. I had a dinosaur gallery set up a few years ago with plastic dinosaurs from a dollar store with short lanyards attached so I didn’t loose them. They were set along a fence which was on a diagonal so they were all at different distances. I had a lot of fun with the dinosaurs and the MK II on low power.
My LD is my most consistent airgun. Anytime I pull it out it shoots to point of aim. It never seems to change. My LD has a Venom shrouded barrel with 4 baffles which makes it quiet on full power and almost silent on low power. Mike Reams also made me an aluminum butt stock for it. I like to shoot it as a rifle.
I hope you are still progressing in your recovery. Are you thinking you might be able to make it up to the Airfest / LASSO shoot in Oklahoma next month? I hope you can. It would be good to see you again.
David Enoch
David,
Next month might be cutting it close. I go back into the hospital on Monday to have another stent inserted in my pancreas, and they will also try to pull my drain. I might be well enough to come to LASSO, but I don’t know.
B.B.
Good luck at the hospital, B.B.
I have to see two different doctors next week. I am not going to tell them what I have been doing since the surgery to remove my chest port earlier this week.
twotalon
B.B.,
I wish you all the best at the doc next week. I’ve been following your progress with deep interest. Now I feel that for the last few years I have been such a whiner about having to take meds for my pancreas every time I eat anything. I could not imagine going though what you’ve gone through. So now I try to diligently take the meds like it or not. My prayers are with you and Edith both.
rikib
Kilim,
Congrats on the Bronco, I’ve heard nothing but good things about it. Seems like an awesome plinker and I do like the looks of it. BB (Tom Gaylord) helped design it and incorporated the plinkability of the Beeman R7 and the western style stock of the Beeman C1. Noticed a couple things on your “accessory list”. The bronco shouldn’t need much maintenance for a long time, so the RWS shooters kit probably isn’t necessary. Also, you mentioned storing the gun in the Plano case. That would be okay for short periods, but over time the foam in the case will absorb moisture out of the air and lead to rust on your gun. You may be better to store it in the open, perhaps with a trigger lock? Also, take advantage of Pyramyd’s buy 3 get 1 free pellet deal and get at least 4 different kind of pellets. Airguns are ammo sensitive, and you need to find what your’s shoots best.
I understand the Disco being out of the price range, seems all the guns I want right now are out of my price range too!! Thinking more about it, the Disco is probably a bit much for an 8 year old’s first airgun anyway. The bronco gets you in the game and is great value, perfect for teaching safety and the shooting basics, and finding out if your kid has a real interest in shooting.
After that, who knows? Sadly for you, I fear you will be struck with a very sick and cruel disease known only as “the bug”. The side effects aren’t noticable immediately, but you’ll know you’ve got it when you catch yourself justifying spending every dime of spare money you have on airguns and all the cool stiff that goes with them.
You’ve been warned!
Aaron
Ok so I will get the Cleaning Kit at a later time.
As for the lock I am thinking of getting this: Franzen Security Gun Combination Trigger Lock, Universal
This way I don’t have to lose a key and just make sure I don’t forget the combo lol.
I am thinking I should at least get a cheap carry case like the Daisy Air Rifle Sleeve and get a Plano Vertical Rifle Case – Single Scoped later on.
Kilim
I am going against conventional wisdom, but I have a Plano hard shell case that I store my TX200 and Diana 52 in. Both rifles have a long wool sock pulled over them to the front scope mount that is treated lightly with silicon oil. I have noticed no rusting on either rifle.
Also, I live near Atlanta, and it is humid as all hell here.
Enjoy your new Bronco, and watch the Artillery Hold Video.
Kilim
Go ahead and get the case, it is perfect for transporting your gun, I just don’t recommend it for storing for a long period of time, months or years. You’ll probably shoot it so much that won’t be an issue 🙂
I just got the same lock for the same reason, I didn’t want to lose the key. I tried it on all my guns and it worked great. I’m going to get a few more.
Aaron
Kilim,
Don’t forget to check out used items on PA’s site. I have seen some cases there.
rikib
B. B.
Best regards for your hospital trip next week.
Jim
BB & Twotalon,I sincerely wish a positive outcome to your medical tribulations….like everyone here I wish God gave me a way to shoulder some of the burden.But alas,friendship is what we humbly offer….
Edith,Belated happy 35th birthday!! I know it was wonderful.I hope you get a vacation soon.I have something I have noticed that isn’t working as intended on the store’s website.I noticed it a while ago but just got reminded.It’s about the phrasing under products about “If you want it by…….date check NEXT DAY AIR”.Pardon the paraphrasing but I’m sure that was adequate.It seems the settings are off kilter,because the dates are arbitrary at best….if I order in the next 63 hours???that’s really what it is saying!It used to point out how quick the object in question could be delivered.The recent object was a 2×20 pistol scope.Anyway,far from an emergency….just not working as designed.
Never mind,it just dawned on me I was looking on a friday after buisness hours…duh :]
Hello all.
I figured I’d pop in and see what I’ve been missing. The MkI and MkII do look a lot like the Ruger .22 pistols. Looking at them, Rugers (and Lugers) come to mind.
I’ve had the good fortune to find a used benchtop lathe for sale a couple of days ago, and managed to teach myself a few things. I built a muzzle compensator for my Discovery. Inspiration was the TKO muzzle brake site. His look a lot better cosmetically, but it’s my first project. The holes in the side are to ensure that it does NOT reduce the report of the gun (so that I don’t run afoul of any laws, however draconian).
Anyway, here are a few pictures…
http://tiny.cc/n5jek
http://tiny.cc/tdjsh
http://tiny.cc/vteo4
I was surprised to find a flat spot on the top of the barrel for a setscrew (the one holding the front sight base on). This made mounting my comp even easier than expected. Of course, my design suffers from the same flaw as TKO’s, the fill cap no longer fits.
Nice work Ronin.
You are probably already aware of this, but Derrick and Nick both work magic with a lathe. Check out their blog if you already haven’t at
http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/
Also check out Nicks Taig Lathe page at
http://www.cartertools.com/
If I had any time, or any money, or any mechanical skills, I would get me one of those.
Thanks for those links, SL.
I’m only just getting started with machining as a hobby. I have dreams of one day adapting an “autococker” pneumatic ram paintball gun action to fire .22 pellets. There is a company that makes an electronic grip frame and a solenoid valve to control the ram, and it can shoot up to 30 shots per second!
Of all the paintball gun designs, this would be the best to adapt to pellets because it isn’t blowback operated. That allows the tuner to isolate the firing pressure from the cocking pressure with separate regulators, and with the electronic frame, things like bolt open time, bolt closed time, and valve dwell time are independently configurable. All one would need to get it running is to have a steel autococker body milled, and adapt a .22 pellet barrel and some type of pellet magazine.
Most of the “engineering” has already been done for the paintball gun platform.
But, I’m a long way off from having the confidence and ability to take on a project of that scope right now. 🙂
Found and interesting way to combine a house chore with a hobby. Mind you this is not to be taken seriously but it is fun! It does involve AIR so I thought I might share it. I’ve been doing the tedious task of pressure washing my house, boring! So I decided to have some fun. After soaking it down with the cleaning fluid I let it set, then put on high pressure nozzle and had some fun target shooting. Okay, after I had my fun I did have to go back and even out the cleaning. It did bring a little enjoyment to an otherwise boring job. 🙂 By the way don’t blast to hard paint chips may fly off (whoops!). 😉
rikib
Rikib i have the way of gardening- fun way style ,when i want to cut the rose off i take my slavia and from 10 m cut it off ps .after that i make sure that i make clean cut wit the sissors 😉
Afraid I’m not close enough to being that accurate yet 🙂 ! Sounds like fun though, but I would destroy the roses, wife wouldn’t be to happy 😉 !
rikib
I was thinking that it had been awhile since I last posted a quote. I normally post them out of some inspiration that has come to me. So tonight I was pondering what has been important lately in my life and on this blog? It was simple, “Friendship” so here is a quote I found pertaining to our friendship.
“In everyone’s life, at some time, our inner fire goes out. It is then burst into flame by an encounter with another human being. We should all be thankful for those people who rekindle the inner spirit.”
Albert Schweitzer
rikib
Rikib this quote is wonderful !!!
Morning all!
I have been excited all night while I was at work (I work night shift) because I ordered the Ace Venturi Bronco for my son’s 8th Bday before I went to work!
Cannot wait to shoot it and teach my son to use it as well when it gets here Wednesday!
Considering that I will be shooting it also, I was debating about getting a scope for it already. (Will not let Jr use the scope until he can shoot well without one 1st.)
I read that on the article BB wrote about the Bronco that he used a Leapers 5th Gen 3-9×40 AO Mil-Dot Rifle Scope with R/G, 1″ Tube.
I was wondering what other scope suggestions are there? or is the one listed above good enough?
Also any suggestions on a scope mount for it?
PS:
I just started my 3 week vacation today so we will have plenty of trigger time when the rifle gets here Wednesday!)
Kilim,
Next week I am doing a special report for you and your son. It will be the fifth in my “Single mom teaches her kids to shoot” series, and will be dedicated to teaching your son and wife how to sight a gun. It will probably run on Thursday.
B.B.
Awesome!
I was just commenting about that article and how useful it is!
Kilim
Three week vacation?! Oooo, I am so jealous I could scream.
As for scope suggestions, I would go with the Leapers Golden Image 3-9x32AO
/product/leapers-golden-image-3-9x32ao-rifle-scope-mil-dot-reticle-1-tube?a=866
It is a little smaller than the one you mentioned above, but it suits the size of the rifle. I would get short or medium mounts, you definitely do not need high ones, with a 32mm objective. Personally, I like two piece mounts for max adjustability. These are great rings:
/product/leapers-accushot-1-rings-medium-3-8-dovetail-4-screws-cap?a=793
There are not any scope stop holes in the Bronco, so place the back ring up against the endcap so that it will not slip backward with recoil. The Bronco’s recoil is tame, but it still recoils.
You have chosen an excellent rifle at an outstanding price. I hope you, your boy and the little lady are happy with it. Be certain to watch the Artillery Hold Video for best technique.
/article/The_artillery_hold_June_2009/63
My Bronco liked Crosman Premier Light Domed pellets in the cardboard box the best. Experiment with many different types of pellets to wring the most accuracy out of your rifle. The brand/weight/condition of pellets make a huge difference.
Sorry about confusing you with Superlube. What are the chances that two guys with 8 year olds would post the same question at nearly the same time? Egg on my face.
That Artillery Hold is definitely different from how I learned how to shoot.
Of course I mainly shot the M16A2, M249, M240G & M2 Machine Guns, and a few other firearms.
Good thing I was shown that!
I am also starting to re-educate myself on range safety and everything I need to remember/learn to teach my son properly. (And reteach myself as well!)
Good thing this site has tons of great info I can use 😀
Learning the artillery hold will go a long way in your enjoyment of the new rifle. When in doubt, believe that it’s you and not the rifle and you’ll progress a lot quicker than the other way around.
I have the Leapers 3-9×40 with R/G illuminated reticle that B.B. used in the Bronco review. I think that the R/G illuminated reticle is of limited use and really more of a gimmick. Other than that it is a great scope, it is a lot brighter than the other scope (Xisico 3-9×40) I have and the focus is very sharp. With that said, I would agree with SL’s recommendation on the Leapers Golden Image 3-9X32 – saving weight is a good thing especially when your 8 year old is trying to hold it steady and the R/G is a waste of money.
I couldn’t help myself and actually just added the Scope and Mount you suggested to my order!
It will be sent out with everything else this Monday and arrive this Wednesday!
We are having a Laser Tag party for him and his friends tomorrow while having the family get together on his Bday this Wednesday!
Wish I posted in this blog earlier so I would have bought everything earlier and have the items already today!
The waiting sucks!
My vacation started and all I am doing is looking at various stuff at PyramydAir while watching my son play COD: W@W then COD: MW2
Yeah, I been telling my wife 10 more years until USMC Bootcamp for Jr!
She don’t want him to join the military but I am all about it lol.
Hell, when I tell him “Front and Center!” he runs up to me and stands at the position of attention!
What do you all think about these scopes for the Bronco?
UTG 3-9×40 AO Rifle Scope
CenterPoint Adventure
UTG 3-9×50 AO Rifle Scope
Leapers 5th Gen 4-16x50AO Rifle Scope
Leapers Golden Image 3-9×40 Rifle Scope
Kilim,
You submitted this comment 3 times and all landed in the spam folder because of all the links you submitted. I approved one of them and deleted the 2 duplicates. The same thing happened to one of my comments, and I’m an administrator of this site! Stuff happens 🙂
Edith
LOL
I was wondering what the hell happened.
Its ok, this site has proved VERY useful so far in my family’s journey to marksmanship!
I am already adding into my bookmarks the really good articles!
The article linked /blog/2010/07/single-mom-teaches-children-to-shoot-part-4/ proved invaluable!
Got all the tools I needed to start off the right way!
Kilim, the artillery hold is vital but not that hard to learn. Just relax and let the gun do its thing. You can’t go wrong with Leapers scopes and mounts or Centerpoint. I’ll wait to hear your report of the first time you squeeze the trigger on the Bronco. I’ve been fondly remembering the first trigger squeeze on my guns which I had anticipated for weeks and even months: the IZH 61, the Crosman 1077, the B30, the Daisy 747, the Smith and Wesson 1911, the Savage 10FP. Perhaps the most memorable was waiting for my M1 while it was being accurized over the course of several months. The first press of the trigger and the roar of the rifle were indescribable.
Matt61
I have to confess to being a little shallow and say ‘I am a sucker for looks’
The Crosman MkI-II would most certainly fit in that category.
The fact they shoot well is a bonus to me.
I have admired the Ruger .22 pistols from afar for years but never had the privilege to hold,let alone shoot one.
A Ruger.22Lr rifle on the other hand I have,and they are great.really well made.
DaveUK
DaveUK, indeed they are. My Ruger Single Six is turning out to be my most used gun of all since it is safe to dry fire. I’m even getting the hang of the quick draw whereby I draw and shoot in one single motion. However, I seem to have developed some repetitive stress injury. I wonder how the old gunfighters dealt with that….
Matt61
Matt61:
In those days I bet they would have used something like ‘Old Mother Hubbards red jollop’ bought from the travelling Snake oil salesman.
After realising it didn’t work rubbed on the hands they would end up drinking it.
Boy It sure worked then.LOL
Funny enough I got a mail recently showing what weird concoctions folk took back in them days for minor ailments.
All of them contained what we now consider to be hard drugs.Unbelievable.
DaveUK
If it got bad enough, they were the second person to draw and fire, and then they didn’t have the problem any longer.
Thank you for a very interesting article on the Crosman Mark I/II. I look forward to subsequent reviews about this particular airgun. I have a Crosman Mark I that I recently acquired which seems to be in exceptional shape and I hesitate to send it for LD conversion because it is in such good condition. Since this is a CO2 pistol is it important to keep the gun cocked (like a pneumatic pump gun) for the sake of the seals or doesn’t it matter? Thanks for your contributions to this blog.
Rikib,that info is very out of whack…the seldom part has exceptions that would blow your mind.For instance,a .308 airgun can carry a good whallop out past 300 yards with accuracy.Fired at the right incline I’m sure it would still ruin your day at 1,000 yards.
FX Fanatic,
You don’t leave a CO2 gun COCKED. You leave it PRESSURIZED.
I leave my Mark I pressurized all the time, but after about two years it does leak down. However, I revisit it about that often, so it’s not a problem.
B.B.
Anyone who can help,
I just bought a Beeman C1 with no sights. I would like to mount a scope on it, but there is no stop pin hole. Will backing it up to the end cap be enough to stop the scope from shifting? Or should I buy the BKL mount that has the gripping strength? Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.
P.S. I enjoyed the series you did about the C1. It appears the breech block on mine needs tightened in the forks. Who would have thought? Thanks!
Chris,if your C1 is anything like mine…it is not a gentle recoil.No,do not trust the tiny surfaces the endcap makes at the end of the scope rail grooves.Softer rings will bunch metal at that spot and harder ones will just splay out.Try that one piece mount,and degrease every surface involved prior to mounting.I still would leave a gap ahead of the endcap and monitor it [measure] at regular intervals.
Chris K.,
The C1 is a perfect example of a rifle for which BKL mounts are ideal. As Frank notes, the carbine does recoil.
B.B.
Chris K.,
The C1 is a perfect example of a rifle for which BKL mounts are ideal. As Frank notes, the carbine does recoil.
B.B.
Thanks guys!
I have a BKL 1 piece mount on a FWB 124, and it has been holding up just fine. Too bad there are no dovetails for a front sight. A peep sight would be perfect on this gun.
Chris,The original front sight for a C1 was held on with a set screw from the top of the barrel….I can’t offer you mine because it is as new,in the box.It hasn’t been shot more than 5 pellets[really]!Pretty awesome considering how long ago they stopped selling them.Let me know if you want measurements…something could be made.
I should add the C1 was made from 1981 to 1996,but mine is from 1983-4 going by the serial #.These guns had a nylon spring guide and a PTFE [teflon] seal.A 1981 gun will have a serial# just over 800,000.
Frank B,
Thanks for the info! It sounds exactly how a Benjamin Discovery front sight is held on. Luckily, I have a front sight for the Disco. I will try that, and shim it if I have to. If it doesn’t, I will probably just get a scope. The C1 I have has the San Rafael address and the manual safety. So, mine is somewhere in between.
P.S. If it does work, I will call it the C1894 after the Winchester 94!
My suggestion,if you want a scope….take the mount off the FWB 124.The proper mounts are available and come up often on the yellow classifieds.They are called sportsmatch-UK,and the rear one has a crosspin that indexes to one of the grooves going across the scope grooves.But it is your call….good luck either way.Let us know how it groups…I’d be curious to hear what pellet works best for you!
Instead of providing a quote I thought for a change I would provide a definition. What definition? The definition of an Air Gun according to Encyclopedia Britannica:
weapon based on the principle of the primitive blowgun that shoots bullets, pellets, or darts by expansion of compressed air.
Most modern air guns are inexpensive BB guns (named for the size of the shot fired). The best of these develop about half the muzzle velocity of light firearms, are accurate enough for marksmanship training at ranges up to 100 feet (30 m), and can kill small game. Darts with tranquilizing drugs may be fired to immobilize animals for handling or capture. An air-gun projectile seldom carries beyond 300 feet (92 m).
Probably just meaningless information, but I thought I’d look it up (idle mind and all)
rikib
I sent a response but it posted above yours Rikib….oops
Frank B,
I only posted the definition in the Encyclopedia I’m not a hard time serious air gunner. I just thought some might be interested in the definition. 🙂 sorry
rikib
I just didn’t want a dangerously incorrect statement of “facts” from any source to be posted without clearly pointing out that those facts are incorrect.It would undo what this site is all about.Don’t take it personal.Airguns today are dangerous FAR beyond what your quote suggested.Like Joe Friday used to say “Just the Facts….”
Frank B,
What’s that saying, something like “don’t kill the messenger!” 🙂
rikib
p.s. Maybe on-line Encyclopedia is out of date, but I didn’t write it. 😉
Encyclopedia Britannica is supposed to be the authoritative standard of information, but this definition of airguns is way behind the times and inaccurate. I bet that Wikipedia is much better although I haven’t checked.
Matt61
Matt61,
You are very correct:
Air gun
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An air gun (e.g. air rifle or air pistol) is a rifle, pistol, or shotgun which fires projectiles by means of compressed air or other gas, in contrast to a firearm which burns a propellant. Most air guns use metallic projectiles as ammunition. Air guns that only use plastic projectiles are classified as airsoft guns.
Wikipedia goes on to provide a history of air guns and power plants much to long for posting.
Thanks for reminding me of an additional resource, can’t believe I forgot it as it is right there on my browser! 🙂
rikib
Matt61,
You are right. Wikipedia does provide a much more accurate description and detailed history. I posted the description but for some reason that post is not going through.
rikib
It’s not cryptic…I said what I meant.
Frank B,
Didn’t say there was anything cryptic. But you didn’t back up your comments either just spouted off! Matt61 on the other hand suggest Wikipedia, another source of information. I looked it up and admitted that the definition was different and that a history was provided. I did not write Encyclopedia Britannica so it is not my quote, merely a definition anyone can find by typing in the words “air gun” in their search field. Maybe I should have searched for every definition of “air gun”, but you didn’t even provided one! Well other than your personal opinion.
rikib
Frank B,
Joe Friday, “Just the Facts …”. You didn’t take time to look them up! Even though I may agree with you, if you say “Just the Facts …”, you could at least provide some.
rikib
Maybe the facts are in the Encyclopedia! 😉
rikib
Wow,you are missing the point.You are chatting on a blog that is all about information reguarding airguns.If you ever searched these archives you post on you would have found massive amounts of airgun info…including dangerous distances for common airgun projectiles.Quoting anyone but myself is unneccessary.If YOU research what I said…YOU may realise my correction was about SAFETY for newer airgunners,who might read that and take it as fact.I said don’t take it personal,I qualified why I wrote what I wrote.
Frank B,
This all started with simply providing a definition of what an “air gun” was according to Encyclopedia Britannica, not a personal opinion. Unfortunately, you got all bent out of shape. I have read many post on here about distances and safety. Maybe you should contact Britannica, or create The Encyclopedia according to Frank B.
rikib
Why don’t you think it’s right to correct inaccurate statements?Why is this about me? 300 ft [92m] is NOT the maximum range of any airgun out there.Youtube is full of videos of airguns hitting targets at 600-900 ft with accuracy.The Encyclopedia is wrong…quoting it wasn’t but defending it when reality proves otherwise at the expense of another’s safety is.Read the warning on your 2240’s package,since 1992 all airguns have warnings about the distance they can be dangerous to.I’m not attacking you personally,nor am I spouting off.
Frank B,
I did try to end this long time back by stating that Matt61 was right and that Wikipedia provided a more accurate description and also a history of air guns. I pasted the basic description and stated the history was too long to post. I believe that I also mentioned that I should have checked Wikipedia as it is on my browser. I feel this all got out of hand, I meant no offense to you. I did not “think”, posting a definition would cause such a problem. It was simply a word I looked up out of curiosity. I thought it might be interesting, not a cause for such problems.
rikib
Guys you have made something out of nothing- Wikipedia can be helpful BUT DONT TAKE WIKI. TOO SERIOUSLIY.There can be some good facts but also they can be wrong and more desinformative(sometimes malicious) then informative ,you see how much is the airgun range is not something like “cardinal mistake”—- peace 😉 no need too argue 🙂
Ok “Britannica”(i have to learn first to read and then post a comment 🙂 people peace 😉 we will solve this this way -we ll ask DaveUK 😉 he is from Britain 🙂
Milan,
I hope we are letting this issue rest! From now on I will stick to posting “quotes” (that I can ‘blame’ on someone else) 🙂 . No longer will I provide a “Definitions” out of curiosity, apparently causes too many problems.
rikib
On my Diana 34 box stands”can couse death up to 300 m” imagine then distance for 350 ….
Milan….at least you get the actual point.That is way more than 92 meters,and any responsible person should know that when they own and shoot an airgun.
Rikib when i have nothing to say ,well i can at least share part of my culture with you guys -here is one nice song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bndRIfaArK0 😉
ooops wrong button sorry :,it is still early here and my coffie isn t over :)!
There is a lot of your culture that we only hear about from people as brave as you to provide us with the information we normally would not see or know about. Ours in a way is the same though not as bad, you see on the news what you are supposed to see not the daily things that go on.
rikib
Here- one more chance but i dubt 🙁 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bndRIfaArK0
Milan,
This link worked fine. Excellent video, wish I understood the language.
rikib
I ll try to simplified it goes something like this-he sings”you can do all but one thing not,this please dont do to me -dont make me not to love this song ,don t make me forget you and leave you” This song is about 25 yrs old and feel free to listen some other songs from Zdravko Čolić like “Ti si mi u krvi” one of our best singer well ever ….
Milan,
Sounds like a really nice peacefully song. I wish my son would do more like that. He has his own recording label and writes and produces. I’m not happy with it and he knows it but at least I’ve talked him into going back to college. I’ve been sending him some poetry I wrote when I was young, he actually says he can relate to it. Makes a dad happy 🙂 when the kid stops talking all the violence an stuff. 🙂
rikib
Rikib it is time in which we live in that i blame ,lots of anger and disappointment 🙁 interesting stuff but i can learn about one culture easiest throught classic rock ! 😉
Milan,
Funny you should mention classic rock, I’ve been downloading so much of it lately. Reminding me of my youth! Just finished downloading “Signs” by Five Man Electrical Band, excellent song!
rikib
Ryan,
Hope all is well 🙂 Haven’t heard much from you since let us know you were back, everything okay? Get well my friend 🙂
rikib
For some reason 2 regulars ended up in the spam filter…B.B.’s comment and rikib’s. I have no idea why, as neither one had any issues that would normally be considered spam. Both have been approved & are now live.
Edith