by B.B. Pelletier
Umarex HKMP5-K-PDW is a lightweight, handy BB-firing semiauto.
A real BB gun
At the SHOT Show this year, I was surprised in the Umarex booth by the appearance of a BB gun that looked for all the world like an airsoft automatic electric gun (AEG). One big clue that the HK MP5-K PDW is not an airsoft gun is the lack of an orange muzzle, which is required by law for all airsoft guns sold in the United States, but is not relevant to BB guns.
Let’s be clear about the definition of a BB gun right now. I am talking about a gun that shoots steel BBs — not the 6mm plastic balls that Asian manufacturers call BBs. Those guns are airsoft guns, not BB guns.
And this definition matters when unknowing parents and their children are buying and using these products, because it’s extremely dangerous to use a true BB gun like this one in a skirmish, where participants shoot at each other!
Specifications
The MP5 K-PDW is a copy of Heckler & Koch’s 9mm machine pistol, or what is commonly referred to as a submachine gun. The “K” designator stands for kurtz kurz, which means short, in German. So, this model is a shortened version of the gun. And, there’s a civilian version of the MP5 that offers semiautomatic fire only. While it looks the same as a full-auto gun, there’s only one shot per trigger-pull. That’s what has been incorporated into this BB gun, as well. [Thanks to blog reader “HK,” we’ve corrected the typo of the German word!]
Semiautomatic only
You cannot “spray and pray” with this BB gun like you can with a full-auto AEG airsoft gun. Instead, you shoot one shot each time the trigger is pulled. The letters PDW in the name mean Personal Defense Weapon, which connotes a legal-to-own semiautomatic version of a gun that’s normally restricted to licensed ownership, only. Actually, for U.S. use, the gun also must have a barrel that’s at least 16 inches long because it has a shoulder stock. That special model of the gun is designated the HK 94 and is not easy to find. The FBI also ordered a special semiautomatic variation of the MP5, which was labeled the MP5SFA2. SF stands for Single Fire, but of course their gun was not restricted to a 16-inch barrel and could be made in a more compact size. Single fire refers to semiautomatic fire, in which one pull of the trigger results in just one round being fired.
An MP5 firearm is a chunky beast that puts a lot of steel in your hands. It may be called a machine pistol, but it feels far more like a rifle when you actually hold one. And, since it shoots the mild 9x19mm Luger round, the recoil is not great. I’ve shot MP5s at legal machine-gun ranges several times, and they’re very easy to manage in the full-auto mode. Of course, a BB gun should also be easy to restrain, as well, only this one has a blowback feature, so there will be some movement when the gun is fired.
The stock swings out from the right side of the gun and locks solidly in place. The pull of the extended stock is a reasonable 13.5 inches, but the rear sight notch is positioned too close to your sighting eye, which will make precision sighting difficult. I have to pull my neck back to allow a few extra inches so I can even see the rear notch. I like the H&K aperture rear sight better, for this reason. The rear sight is a drum with multiple notches around its top, but it cannot be adjusted in either direction. The front sight is a simple post inside a narrow globe and it also does not adjust.
The rear sight is a notch, but should be an aperture when located this close to the eye. It doesn’t adjust.
This BB-shooting version weighs just over one-third what the firearm weighs, so it’s light and manageable. The bulk of this gun is rugged plastic, with metal parts used where necessary. That make it light. Since I haven’t fired it yet, I can’t comment on how the blowback feels; but as light as the gun is, I’m expecting to feel some realistic movement.
The curved magazine holds up to 40 BBs, which is only 10 more rounds than the firearm carries. So, the loading interval should be very realistic. I remember when I was shooting the firearm how sore my thumbs became from loading the mags and how quickly the cartridges were consumed by full-auto fire.
Installing a CO2 cartridge
To install and remove a CO2 cartridge, the stock must be pulled off the gun. The owner’s manual is of very little help in this procedure, as it refers you to a tiny photo showing two black plastic stock pins with red circles around them. I have made several larger photos of the pins and will give you more detailed instructions.
First, unscrew the piercing pin screw all the way. Then, remove the buttstock by removing the two plastic stock retaining pins.
The manual clearly says to use a plastic pin punch to remove the pins, though there are no pin punches included with the gun. However, I discovered that the back of a Bic pen will do the job perfectly. Just push the back of the pen down on top of each pin, and the retaining wires will be pushed out of the way. The pins can then be pulled out on the left side of the receiver. They’re captive and do not have to be completely removed from the receiver for the stock to be removed.
Both stock pins must be removed to pull the stock for installing a fresh CO2 cartridge. Each pin has a wire retainer in its center that holds it in place. The shape of the wire allows it to move out of the way when pressure is put on the end of the pin.
There’s a pin at the top of the stock fixture and one at the bottom. Both must be pushed out to the left side of the receiver.
You don’t need a special tool to remove the stock pins. Just press in on them with the end of a pen and they push out easily.
The stock pins are captive and do not have to come all the way out of the receiver.
Once the pins are out of the way, the stock comes off like this. Then, the CO2 cartridge can be installed and the stock replaced.
To get the pins pushed back in the gun, you may have to tap them with a plastic mallet or a piece of wood. The wire retainers need to be coaxed back into the center of the pins before they’ll enter their respective holes in the stock.
While this sounds like a drawn-out procedure, it takes longer to explain than to actually do it. After the first time, you’ll be replacing cartridges in less than a minute.
Many of the switches and controls are either cast solidly into the plastic body of the gun or are dummies. The cartridge follower that’s located on the front left of the receiver, for example, is a spring-loaded steel part that moves in its track and can be locked in the rear position but has no real function to serve.
The two-position selector switch can be set to either fire or safe. On safe, the trigger is disconnected from everything and just moves in an arc. When the switch is set to fire, the hammer is cocked and released with every shot.
Two settings: Fire and Safe. Fire is semiauto, only.
We’ll look at velocity and shot count next. I’ll chronograph the gun with both Daisy and Crosman BBs to see if there’s a preference.
SAFETY WARNING
Parents, this is a BB gun that shoots steel BBs. Do not mistake it for an airsoft gun. It is not meant to serve as a skirmish gun, where players shoot at one another. The velocity of this BB gun coupled with its small steel ball projectile (the BB) makes it very dangerous. It should never be fired at a person or animal for any reason. Also, steel BBs can rebound from hard surfaces with great velocity.
I recently purchased one of these and I like the feeling of it.
The cocking handle pulls open the ejector port and, for the fun of it. When you put a fresh magazine in, you can slap it shut.
Can’t wait for the next part!
Austin,
There is no ejection port cover on the gun I’m testing. Are you sure you are talking about the BB gun and not the airsoft gun?
B.B.
Er, sorry. I didn’t mean an external cover. Can’t remember what its called but i’m going to refer to it as the slide for the time being. Which seems to operate the blowback. When you pull the cocking handle back, it keeps that port open and you can see the co2 operator inside and such.
(The first photo with the iron sights, just down near the right end side of the photo, the part that goes in, is a sliding cover internally no?).
Thats what I am mentioning.
Thanks for the reply.
Sorry for the confusion!.
Austin,
Yes, there is a black cover that slides back under blowback, and when the action is opened (cocked).
B.B.
The PDW desingnation does not refer to the civilian version.
The PDW version of the MP5K differs in the addition of the folding stock,
and the extended barrel to make muzzle attachments possible, the MP5K
has the barrel flush with the front sight and a simple cap with a lanyard ring
in the place of the stock.
The MP5K PDW (the firearm) is a full auto weapon.
George,
My mistake. The PDW is a Navy variant!
B.B.
I have an airsoft version of this It is a blast to shoot.
I considered getting this when it came out but two things kept me from it. First it is steel bb only and second it is semi automatic fire only. You might have thought if they were going with steel bb’s only they would have included a burst fire option.
I think, for safety sakes. They did not.
CJr….
Answering your question from yesterday…..
I use a hand pump. I know the fill pressure from the pump guage, and when I refill, I can see what the ending pressure was.
When to refill? Either from shooting over the chrono looking for your desired velocity spread, or shooting targets to see when your poi starts to change too much. Just count your shots.
Also, when shooting targets, watch your accuracy. You will find a pressure range where it is most accurate, and how many shots fall into that range.
It takes some fooling around with frequent topping off to get the right pressure range. Then more shooting and topping off after adjustments until you you get it set up the best you can.
Any adjustments may change the picture a lot. Takes time and work to get it worked into the right place.
After all that work, you will be set.
Obviously, getting the gun tuned to conserve air is a good thing, but you want it to be accurate at the same time.
twotalon
twotalon,
Thanks for that. I suppose I should enter the world of hand pumps someday if only to get that $200 pressure gauge. I have not experimented with the air pressure adjustment at all. I merely set it at 2 and took whatever it offered as the shot curve. I also just realized I have not fooled with the trigger adjustments. Maybe that means I like where it is. I guess it’s time to get out of the box.
One thing I noticed, my scuba tank is getting low so I’m only filling to 2000psi. During the 30 shot AirgunArena eMatch session I’ve noticed my POI shifting to the right rather than down after about 15 shots. Does this sound weird?
-CJr
If you fill slow enough from a scuba you will see where the ending pressure was….where the fill actually starts. 2000 psi is probably way too low for an AF gun. Both of mine will shoot at max possible velocity with the PW all the way down at that pressure.
My Talon in stock configuration and original barrel did not like more than 180 bar of pressure. It shot poorly above that. It was good for 25 shots (accuracy) before it went to crap. poi dropped low left and the groups opened up fast after 25.
With the tophat adjusted to conserve air and give max velocity at the same time when the PW was only adjusted high enough to start out at max velocity on a fresh 180 bar fill it worked as well as possible for me. Still only 25 shots , but it saved as much air as possible and I had it in the bracket that this rifle wanted.
No two will respond the same way, so any figures I throw at you are only for examples.
I don’t know if my methods are the best or not, and certainly did not feel like repeatedly dumping the tank, pulling the valve, and adjusting the valve spring so I could try it again. I worked with what was easiest. It’s still a lot of shooting.
twotalon
Well, I placed my order for 2 of the MP5’s so they’ll be here well in time for Christmas.
MP5’s under the Christmas tree…ain’t life grande when you’re 7 and 9 years old!!
This sounds great !
Wanna adopt me ?
J-F
Ho-ho-ho… Merry Machineguns to all, and to all a good fight!
Yeah…I’m a sucker for those big, pleading, child eyes and “but daddy, all our friends are getting submachine guns for Christmas” 😉
CSD
First AK-47s, now MP5s? Whats next, RPGs? You must have the best armed kids in town. Look, you made me jealous of a 7 and 9 year old!
I like the Bruce Willis message in the original Die Hard: “Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho.”
Matt61
Product Endorsement
Got tired of hauling my heavy shooting bench to the range. It’s one of those with a built in seat and is touted as being portable since it folds up. Not only is it heavy but it’s like wrestling a 100 lb octopus when you take it down, set it up and load it into a vehicle.
Bought a MTM Predator shooting bench for trips to the range. Not only is it lightweight, folds completely flat but it is surprisingly stable. Easy to set up and take down. Very good buy.
kevin
Kevin,
The MTM bench and shooting rest are what I’m showing shooting the Peabody on, back on Sep 1.
/blog//?s=Peabody&search=Search
I can shoot off concrete benches at my range, but the MTM is just as stable when I settle down.
B.B.
Sorry off topic but….
I got a new HW99s(HW50s) late yesterday 🙂
Thank you all for great advice and patience over this last year or so.Especially BB.
Everything about it feels right, almost as if it was a custom fit.
I have only managed about a dozen shots because the weather here is appalling.Very high wind and rain.
Even so I got it sighted in for my 50ft range with the rear sight at its lowest elevation and a couple of right clicks for windage.
Not enough shots for grouping but I managed a couple on the bull 🙂
I used my beloved H&N coppa points for shooting with.
Normally through my B3 Carbine they won’t penetrate the bottom of a bean can at 50ft but in the 99s,straight through plus change 🙂
What I need is a screwdriver with a wide enough head but narrow enough to do the trigger adjustment.
twotalon:
I know that happy place where you are with your new Weihrauch 🙂
DaveUK
Dave,
We’ve been waiting for your report on this rifle. Glad it appeals to you. I predict as time passes you will grow to love it.
Try some Air Arms domes (8.4-grain) in the gun. They should group well.
B.B.
BB:
You know the best bit of wood furniture I have in the house is the stock on the HW99s.I’m lovin it already lol.
Rest assured mate I will be rattling on about this rifle for years.
Thanks for the pellet tip and the articles by you and Mac on the HW50s will be invaluable.
twotalon:
It has done nothing but rain here since I left out for Lincoln yesterday to buy the new rifle.
A bit of Ying and Yang going on I think. lol
DaveUK
I would be a lot happier if we did not have wind today at 20-30 mph gusting to 40.
I got the scope fairly close at a few yards in the basement yesterday. From a poor rest this morning outside at about 15 yds it was shooting a bit high. No point in more adjustments until better weather and I can set up a benchrest.
Shot some 8.4 Exacts and some cpl from die#7. Glad that box is about empty…bad batch with very visible seams around the pellets. Have a full box from batch (or die) ‘A’ that look much better.
twotalon
Anybody know which (if either) AA .177 pellet is just a tad bit bigger than 8.4Exacts?
While I have not been able to get out and shoot some groups from a good rest yet, I am looking for pellet possibilities that feel about right when loading.
I hope the Exact heavies will do well and give me dead starling accuracy at 30 yds because of winter winds in my back yard. My other heavies are too tight of a fit. Will shoot medium weights if necessary.
Plan to try FTS/FTT.
Don’t think my TSS is going to stay in the gun case. It’s still my favorite starling killer with CPH.
My crab apple is loaded with tempting starling bait that will draw them like a magnet when it gets cold. The branches are really sagging this year from all the weight. Have to make up for last lear.
twotalon
Nice piece of equipment, but since it’s not a firearm, why don’t they make it full-auto like the Drozd? I will also say, though, that I have heard that the MP5 firearm is extremely accurate and rewarding to shoot in the semi-auto mode.
Frank B., that’s quite the mouth-watering description of your Condor. I have so far scoffed at modular guns, but I would probably enjoy it once I started. I’m a great fan of Batman.
Kevin, thanks for the words of reassurance about the Marauder–my favorite pcp again. I remember now that there is some kind of clear plastic backing on the magazine that you have to pry up to load the pellets. Sounds like a hassle if I got that right. But as long as the gun is a shooter and quiet, that’s the main thing.
Matt61
From what I have learned about you Matt…..The Condor would occupy your time for years to come.
After all,nothing else compares to it.
Matt61
The Marauder is indeed a fine airgun. Accurate, quiet, and powerful. If you have the means, I highly recommend it.
I have been toying with the idea of ‘de-pinging’ mine by inserting a folded piece of plastic tubing into the airtube to stop the vibration that causes most of what little noise the Marauder creates.
The magazine sounds like it is fiddly but it isn’t. You get the hang of it in no time at all. It is true, some pellets fit better than others, but JSBs and CPs fit really well and seem to be the best pellets for mine and for nearly every other Marauder I have heard about. Also, the magazine is very close in design to the Air Arms S410 mag and to the mags used in the FX line, so you are in good company there. The principal difference being that the spare M-Rod mags cost about $15 and the AA/FX mags cost like $80. Yikes.
Matt,
The Drozd isn’t full-auto, either. Because it’s powered by CO2, it has to be burst-fire. Otherwise it will freeze.
B.B.
BB or anyone,
I have an Air Venturi Bronco that I bought from PA back in July. It has a very loose breach and I cannot find a pellet that fits tightly or even snug. I have tried at least nine different pellets including CPL’s, JSB’s, Gamo’s and H&N’s of various kinds including one with a 4.53mm head. It makes loading difficult since you have to angle the gun so the pellet doesn’t fall out when you close it. I have pushed pellets through the barrel and there is not much resistance. I really can’t determine if the accuracy suffers due to all this since I have no base to compare it to. Any suggestions for a tighter fitting pellet? Also, do you know of anywhere I can get seals for a Slavia 620? I am going through one and don’t really know if the old leather ones are up to snuff. Thanks.
BB may have different advice but… I would email Pyramyd cust service and advise them of the problem. Be sure to list ALL of the brands of pellets you have tried and also let them know if this condition was from day-one of your ownership of the rifle. Be sure to tell them that you have tried the push through test and what results you have had with which pellets.
WhoGnu,
That would be my advice as well.
The barrel should not be that large.
B.B.
Brian and B.B.,
Thank you for the recommendation. I had to get back to work and couldn’t get back to the blog. I really enjoy the blog, bye the way, and have followed it for some time. I hope B.B. gets very well very soon. My mother went through a very similar experience a few years ago and I know how tough it was for her.
I would feel a little weird about calling PA at this point about the Bronco. Their return policy is very straightforward. I have had it awhile. I just sort of thought I would find a pellet that would fit. I bought this rifle for my girl friend and at the same time bought myself an HW30. I have been shooting the HW quite a bit and leave her rifle alone for the most part. We are going to shoot together this weekend and it made me think about this issue. I recently got a few new tins of pellets from PA thinking one of them would work but no dice. It seems to be a fine rifle otherwise.
Perhaps I will call or email them on Monday. Again, thank you both for your time.
manualrry posted this in yesterdays, and meant to post it here so re posting.
This is a question open to any one who has the answers. I have a Beeman R9 which I believe is about 25 years old but not sure. It has an uncheckered stock which appears to be stained beech. The stock has a very nice sculpted comb and the trigger guard is metal. The address is Huntington Beach California. It has a globe front sight with a post insert and a notch rear sight. It is topped with a Beeman Blue Ribbon 66R 2 X 7 X32 AO scope which is no longer available and I am told the scope brings at least $250 from collectors. Both the gun and the scope are in excellent condition. The gun has 3 very minor stock dings. The metal is 99%+ with only two extremely small scratches.
What I would like to know is approximately when this gun was made? I do not see a serial number anywhere. Other markings are “Beeman Model R9″ and “Made in Germany. On the other side of the receiver it has the warning “Before use read owners manual…..”
Also I would like to know the approximate value of this rig. I am going to sell it as I can no longer manage the cocking and the weight of this rig because of problems with my hands, wrists, and shoulders. I have searched the internet for info on this gun to no avail.
I hope to replace it with a Sumatra 2500 carbine in .25 caliber.
Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me.
pcp4me,
The Beeman store moved to Huntington Beach in 1994, so your R9 cannot be older than that.
Kevin might know the value better than I. I don’t value the 66R scopes that much.
The rifle is worth $250 if the finish is still excellent.
Look for the serial number on the underside of the barrel, just forward of the base block or on the spring tube, just under the wood on the left side.
You should easily be able to trade your rifle for a .25 caliber Sumatra with a scope of its own.
B.B.
I cant help it. I just took a test on this stuff so its pounded in my head. It’s kurz, not kurtz. However, it would be pronounced ‘kurtz’ if one spoke it properly. Sorry BB. Just had to….
HK,
That’s one on both me and on Edith. We both know German and she spoke it at home as her second language.
Good for you!
B.B.
Im not a German speaker, just a kid taking German in high school, but our current chapter is about clothing, so…
HK
HK,
Well, you got one on us. Edith lined out the mistake and left it there to see, so why don’t you show that to your German teacher, to prove that you have learned something?
B.B.
Alright, sorry for making such a big deal about nothing. Have a good weekend.
HK
HK, BB,
I thought so too. I’m not familiar with the German language at all, but oddly enough this is the first time I have noticed the word spelled with a ‘t’.
Is this a ‘potato’ / ‘potatoe’ thing?
ka
Wow. You could hold off a bad guy quite effectively with one of these things. The modern Airsoft guns really impress me, this has got to be of that quality or better.
This little Crosman 1377 I got at Wally’s is kinda neat. For what I paid, very neat. Noisy to pump up though, a break-barrel gun can be cocked quietly, and with a CO2 or PCP you’re only cocking the trigger mechanism. I’m going to keep shooting my Sheridan daily and maybe put more more Pellgun oil in, see if it gets more “mojo” over time. Without a chronograph, I guess I’ll try the “soft pine chrono” you used to use.
Now, on to COFFEE. The “crappuchino” you speak of may be called “cat crap coffee” since apparently there’s a species of wild cat that eats the coffee “cherries” then well, shits out the pits. The pits undergo a sort of fermentation/flavoring (I bet!) while inside the cat, and these are gathered, roasted, etc. making this incredible coffee.
Any exotic coffee, I’d order from Sweet Maria’s because, as I learned from my coffee-snob neighbor, they’re not about to dare to pass off a conterfeit or diluted coffee on the coffee snobs.
As for makers, look up the Wikipedia entry for the Moka coffee pot. I want one myself, since my Mr. Coffee needs electricity to operate which is not something I want to depend on, and saucepan “hobo” coffee just ain’t that great. If the Apocalypse hits before I can get a nice Moka Pot, I’ll improvise a Chemex, which you can buy one of, they’re nice, but once you look at how it works it’s easy to cobble one together.
Flobert
My first airgun purchase was a Crosman 1377. It is definitely a fun little pistol for the measly $55 it costs. The scope I have mounted costs more than the gun. I have modified mine slightly since its purchase.
I have a suggestion for you to quiet the clack clack clack of pumping it. I put dense foam-rubber pads on the metal piece inside the forearm so that it is cushioned against the airtube when you pump it. You know the pads I’m talking about, the ones you put on the bottom of pottery or vases so that they don’t scratch your furniture. Also you can use the pads they use to cushion kitchen drawers. It won’t be silent but it is a definite improvement.
Also, when my accuracy becomes erratic, I oil the pump cup with pellgunoil. Then my groups tighten up.
Flobert,
Laughing over the reference to post Apocalyptic coffee making! I myself have reasoned that when that time is here, I will go coffee-less and be a force to best not disturbed!!
ka
Being able to brew all sorts of things is going to be handy anyway. What we want for the Apocalypse (which we’re in the slow, beginning, stages of BTW) is something that can just run on heat. A Mr. Coffee works the same way a stovetop perc does, it just uses a heating coil. The older type stovetop percs are set on a stovetop, Coleman stove, etc. and I’m on the lookout for one. A “Moka” pot, the actual, Bakelite handled one, is tops on my list. A good bulletproof piece of hardware, designed in the 1950s and not changed since.
You can make coffeelike substances from things like chicory, acorns, burnt tortillas, dandylion roots, all sorts of things. Yeah I can go off of coffee too, but even the Indians had hot brews made from various things for those cold mornings. (They did cool drinks made from berries etc in the summer too.)
B.B.,
Well, if you ever get back on coffee again, let me know if I can get you some if those Nicaraguan beans. They are not “cat excreted” but sundried and roasted the old fashioned way at the hacienda. You have my email address. It may take me a while, but I’ll come through for you. Meanwhile I hope you soon are back to 100% in every respect.
Man, I’m tempted by a BB machine gun, but I just know my 8 year old will take out every window, china cabinet and the dog’s eye with it. So… with Nerf guns he stays.
I’m still tempted by a gas spring gun. Would you suggest the HW90 or the Walther Talon? There’s a big difference in price I know. I left out the Benjamin Trail because I like open sights.
AlanL
Alan,
After my experience earlier this year with the Benjamin Legacy 12 foot-pound rifle, I suggest that you wait until I can test the low powered Crosman Nitro Piston rifle that just came out. I think it might be just the gun for a lot of us.
B.B.
B.B.,
But the Crosman Titan Nitro Piston lacks sights!
AlanL
Alan,
You’re right. My mistake. In that case I’d go with the Walther Talon Magnum.
B.B.
I’ve reported a couple times here on the fun of shooting at golf balls. Now, however, I need to add a warning.
Yesterday evening I was sitting on my office steps, plinking at gold balls at twenty yards with my scoped Daisy 856. I’ve devised a little game where I place the golf balls on the bare ground and alternately shoot at each one until they are both knocked off into the weeds where I can no longer see them.
I was shooting Crosman Destroyer Ex pellets. I hit a golf ball, apparently quite square. To my total surprise, the pellet rebounded off the golf ball and struck the metal office door behind me!
My immediate thought was of Ralphie, “You’ll shoot your eye out, kid!”
Although it is quite common for pellets to ricochet, this was the only time I can recall a pellet boucing back at me like a BB shot at a metal surface. At least I was wearing my safety glasses.
I suppose a golf ball is one of the few objects that will rebound a lead pellet. Although I do not intend to quit using them for targets, I will be a little more aware of their rebound potential in the future.
Good luck to BB on the mend.
Les
Sigh. I showed off a pellet gun to my friend and shot at the end of a log, lo and behold I shot …. my friend! Hit him in the shoulder, he jumped and said “Ow!” and I thought he was joking for a moment, he wasn’t.
In fact I’m finding the cheap kind of pellets I shoot these days bounce around a fair bit if given a chance. It’s not the old days of being given all the Meisterkugelns I could shoot and in effect being paid to take ’em. Those are light, soft, and well-behaved. The regular old pellets for regular old human beings I shoot now, can get around.
Rearranging your last sentence, you shoot regular old human beings with regular old pellets because they can get around! I guess I’d better hide! 🙂
rikib
Les
Better switch to ping pong balls. Golf balls are rubber band balls covered in plastic. Unless you are using range balls. Those are made of granite.
Yeah, very badly constructed sentence there, or something. I mean, regular ol’ pellets regular ol’ people get, not Meisterkugelns in pretty little fitted flats (100 per flat, 500 per box) handed to me with a smile by some pretty girl who’s the daughter of the factory owner, or something. Our good ol Big-5 or Kmart obtained pellets are full of goodness like, recycled wheel weights or something, and are harder, and they bounce.
BBs bounce like, well, little bouncy steel balls because …. that’s what they are! Boy can those things bounce! And as a neighbor gleefully showed me, can punch the prettiest little holes in outdoor lamp globes, there were a zillion little holes in the ones around HIS place, all facing his place lol – oops. And he never got caught!
B.B.
I have to say that your contrast comparison between the B3 and the HW97 was a gross understatement……in both directions.
My D48 is a piece of junk compared to the 97K. Talk about built!!! Built heavy and tight. Incredibly precise construction. Any tighter and things would start binding up. And SMOOTH !!
All I can hear is spring buzz when fired. Sometimes a bit of ping. Have been told that this will go away after I get more pellets through it.
Have some trouble loading loading it compared to the 48, but the 48 does not have a scope to obscure my vision or get in the way and the 48 is a .22 while the 97 is the smaller and harder to handle .177.
CPL also load better when waxed. MV 850.
twotalon
DaveUK
Congratulations on your new HW99/HW50S mate! I am very happy for you. It is miles away from the B-3 is it not?
This is a great rifle, not too big, not too small, Goldilocks would definitely approve. With open sights it is about the perfect weight for offhand shooting. With the 4-16X40AO scope I have mounted, it is a good bit heavier.
Mine is still dieseling, but the accuracy is phenomenal. It also has a fair amount of buzz in the firing cycle, but a good lube-tune would probably solve this problem and mine isn’t broken in yet. I have also considered buying the Vortek PG2 tuning kit ($70 US) which is supposed to really smooth it out.
I hope many generations of Peats are able to enjoy this fine heirloom rifle you have purchased. You have chosen wisely.
Mine likes JSB Exacts with the 4.52 head and 8.4 grains. This is the same pellet I believe that BB recommended, but labeled Air Arms pellets.
Slinging Lead:
Thank you Mate.
Thus far I have not been aware of any particular buzz of which the 99/50s is renowned.
Possibly because I am used to the crash bang wallop of my much abused B-3 lol
What I need to do is get someone else to fire it while I listen.
All pellet tips are most welcome as I intend only to fire the best out of this baby 🙂
Future generations of Peats can get stuffed, I’m being buried with this rifle King Tut style, to use in the afterlife. lol
Dave
All,
My stepfather’s 79th surprize b’day party was last night. You should have seen the smile he had when he opened the box his 2240 came in!
The Party was small and a surprise, so I had to be a bit stealthy setting up an impromptu target before he got the gift, and all before the sun goes down. I used an unopened box of drywall mud and shoot n see’s stuck to the side.
This was the first time I had ever even held a 2240. What a cool gun. I was a bit surprised at the noise level, and at 10 meters a hit in that box of mud sounded great! Can u say hydrostatic shock? I am impressed with the power this thing has. After bout three or four shots He was shooting the target every time.
2240, pelgun oil, bulk box of premiers; $100
A box of drywall mud, shoot n see targets; $17
Watching a 79yr old man turn into a school boy; Priceless!
I need to do something to lower the sound level a bit, as the neighbors a tightly stacked. I’m also ordering me one as well!
ka
KA
Awesome story. What a wonderful thing it is to discover this exquisite hobby, and quite another to have a cool step-son to get you started. What a great gesture.
TKO sells ‘lead dust collectors’. They make my Discovery which sounds like a .22 rimfire normally, quieter than my Benjamin Marauder, according to my ball and chain. I think the short version would be just the thing for a 2240.
What kind of pellets did you buy for him?
SL,
600 count Premiers. The bulk box under the suggested accessories option when adding to cart.
The noise issue will be fun to remedy. Not sure which direction to go yet. Be it a longer barrel or a moderator, or both. I left him my shoulder grip from my 1377. I will probably have to get another of those too. I also bought a 25 pack of CO2 that I didn’t mention before. I got that at Wally Mart, as I didn’t want chance a slow shipping.
We will be changing the breech and removing the barrel band and after shooting it I will have to consider a trigger upgrade as well. I am thinking of making these mods on another gun (mine, when I get one) first. Do you think it’s worth going to Crosman Custom Shop or starting with the basic package and modify in chunks?
ka
KA
Ooooo, that’s a tough one. If you go to the Crosman custom shop, you can get a Lothar Walther barrel if so desired, trigger shoe ( i bought one off the Yellow ) a nice LIM rear sight, and a muzzle brake. Also, you could get it laser engraved with something like “Kid Again Kills Again”. On the other hand, I had a blast, and learned much by tinkering with my trigger with a dremel, and customizing my gun bit by bit.
If I had it to do over again, I would probably go for the Crosman custom shop option. (Except they don’t offer the 1377 as a platform!) I may just have to pay an engraver to write “Slinging Lead Special” on the side of my 1377.
Your handle strikes a chord with me.
SL,
Ha! KidAgain Kills Again. That’s great! I have built about 25 different virtual guns in various configurations on that site and never even once thought of using KidAgain. I think this morning I decided to just start from the basic model primarily due to the fact that I don’t want to have to pay for a steel breech with no left bolt option.
The basic 2240, R J Machine Long riser breech, 14.6″ .22 barrel (Crosman), TKO full black shroud, shoulder grip. Should come out to $280’ish. Sites and trigger are undecided. And I will be able to shoot it until I get all the goodies!
ka
OK, I should come clean here. I discovered a couple weeks ago that My step dad, Phil, has had a Savage 99 in 300Savage since 1957. It’s one of the rifles that I have been looking for for a couple of years now. He’s letting me use it and is comfortable that I will take care of it. So as far as a great son and all I guess I’m just sucking up in a big way, and have created a shooting partner along the way. Actually when I mentioned the gift idea, my two brothers wanted to be included and I think one of them will probably buy one of these pistols too!
ka
How are you guys !?I just want to congrats Dave for HW Dave -keep shooting mate 😉 and to say that i am still here checking the best blog on the world from time to time 😉
Milan
I can’t speak for everyone, but I am doing just dandy. It is good to see you on the blog my friend. I have 3 airguns I have purchased recently to keep me busy, and I am having a ball. ( I am starting to sound like Frank B! ) I hope things are going well in your neck of the woods.
SL- it is good ,could be better always 😉 but it could be worse so i ll keep my mouth shut 🙂
Milan,
Good to hear from you!
ka
Kid Again -i have newer really leave you guys … ,Singing Lead what three new airguns ,come on – tell me man ? ! 😉
Sorry it is Slinging Lead, i am just kidding glad to read you my friend 🙂 !Kid is there something i missed 😉 my 634 is still in function ,631 also still works ,no Diana 34 spring now when there is that” money issue”
Milan
I was able to find a new HW50S for a good deal, so I bought it. Then I found a used Beeman R7 for a good price so I bought it. Then airgun afficianato, Kevin Lentz clued me into a vintage R7 owned and tuned by none other than Paul Watts. He is the Holy Grail of airgun tuners in the USA. I had no choice. I had to buy it. It is a true work of art. Paul is an artisan.
Thanks to Kevin for the lead.
I know, SL. I was also clued into that rifle but before I could put finger to key, you snatched it up! Enjoy it. I’ll be looking for an R7 0r 9 or the HW equivalent.
Fred PRoNJ
Milan,
It’s so good to hear from you again! Please stay in touch with us.
B.B.
Thank you B.B. i will
Hello Milan 🙂
Great to see you.
I may need your ballistic gel recipe (Extra Tough) or ask my wife to make a trifle.One or the other. lol
DaveUK
Dave,
‘Wife’s trifle’ LOL! Can you ship some across the pond?
ka
Hey Dave !Not to “overuse”my english language try here :Testing the HW50 s-part 3 (you are in luck) there i is my recipy 😉 (at the end of the blog)
Milan:
Ok, got that logged cheers.
KidAgain:
Actually my wife’s cooking cant be that bad.
When she asked me if I wanted super sex, I went for the soup 🙂
DaveUK
twotalon and a 97K
A D48, a piece of junk? Dang! A little harsh isn’t it? You were singing it’s praises not long ago. You must really like that HW97.
BB stated that the HW97 and TX200 were approximately equivalent. In a review BB also stated that the Diana48/52 is like a tractor, and the TX200 was like a Corvette. This sounded like a colossal insult until I realized that BB loves tractors.
My feeling is that if the TX200, and by extension the HW97K, is like a Corvette, the Diana is like a ’69 Camaro with an aluminum ladder strapped to the side of it. It isn’t the prettiest or most elegant rifle out there, but my Diana 52 can stack pellets, if I pay attention. And mine has a very smooth shot cycle. I have not noticed any torquing to the side, but it was bought used, and the previous owner must have completely broken it in.
You have a HW97. I have a TX200. We are both in airgun heaven.
Any plans to change your handle?
Nope.
twotalon
I think I will build a gun rack for by the back door in time for prime starling killing season.
A shelf for 4 different kinds of pellets, places to stand 4 different guns.
TSS, Talondor,48, and 97.
In spite of the noise, I just have to do in a starling with a .22 Pred (mv 1045fps) from the Talondor.
twotalon
Slinginglead,what’s this I hear about one of Paul Watts’ personal guns??? Do tell…..
Frank B
Are you aware of this shady character that goes by the name of Kevin? He read one of my posts and obviously seized on my weakness by pointing me to Paul’s website where he was selling one of his personal guns, a Beeman R7 with hand-cut checkering, and a full advanced tune by Paul himself. I consider it quite the prize. Sorry to deprave you of an airgun, but you can’t own them all Frank B!
Perhaps, one day we will meet. Then you can shoot my R7 and I can shoot the dozens of dreamy airguns that you own. I will even bring the steaks.
Slinging Lead,
Congrats on all the rifles, and a Paul Watts tuned HW? Nice.
While Paul’s tunes are certainly 150 watts, I do my 15 watt version where I jam JM heavy tar in the cocking slot, smear the trigger with JM moly and then use JM clear lube randomly – and the result is not bad!
Sure, it won’t compare to a tune that starts at $269, but for about $2.00 in lube it is pretty darn nice. I have to admit, the first time I did an R-1 carbine I was amazed.
Call 1-800-volvo-tune for more details.
Now if we could just get you an FX …
I just completed some back yard shooting. I was using my RWS 52 in .22 Cal. with the factory open sites. I was shooting off hand at about 30 yards. The targets…………..Cattails, the plants. They make a nice puff when you hit them and there are more each year. I guess that would be a “Green” target.
Mike
A few funny quotes that had been passed on to me:
By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you’ll become happy; if you get a bad one, you’ll become a philosopher.
– Socrates
I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury.
– Groucho Marx
My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying.
– Rodney Dangerfield
We could certainly slow the aging process down if it had to work its way through Congress.
– Will Rogers
rikib
Hello BB,
I was wondering what your thoughts where on the Diana RWS 56th? Is there really a .25 caliber available? Do you think there will be any future importers of the 56, other then Airguns of Arizona? I was the proud “keeper” of a model 54 .22, for over 2 years when my cousin moved into a row home development. The only back stop there was the other row homes. 🙂 He let me “keep” it until he had a place to shoot it. Well, he recently moved into an old farm house, and now is about a mile away from his closest neighbor. Needless to say, he got his rifle back.
So, now I am in the market for a new air rifle. I loved shooting the 54! Not hold sensitive at all! and extremely accurate! I did mostly long range plinking, and a little pest control. I really like the 56, but I don’t like AoA. I would love to step up to .25 also, but can only find it mentioned on the Diana web-site, no other info on it.
Any help is appreciated, thanks,
Nate.
Nate,
The Diana 56 is just a model 54 in a thumbhole stock. I don’t normally review airguns that are not major designs by themselves. The model 56 stock looks nice if you like the thumbhole design. But beyond that and the fact that the safety is metal instead of plastic, there is no difference between it and the model 54.
The only thing I have heard about .25 caliber and Dianas is that RWS USA is selling off several new-old-stock sidelevers in that caliber. It never developed the power people hoped it would, leaving .22 caliber as the king of those popular guns.
B.B.
Volvo
If you want to get me an FX, than be my guest! (rimshot) “but seriously folks…”
I see my recent airgun spending spree as mostly your fault, with Kevin being a willing accomplice. All of your endless harping about the quality of HW guns got my curiosity piqued, then BBs series of articles sealed the deal. After I bought one, it was all too easy to justify buying another. A slippery slope indeed.
I imagine you are poofing out your chest right about now, walking around like a rooster, but if you think I’m going to trade my TX200 for a 97 you can just forget it. Not gonna happen.
I thank you for your advice and insights. Your knowledge, given freely is worth a generous consulting fee, unfortunately you neglected to negotiate a contract. Regardless, you have my undying gratitude and I hold you in the highest esteem. Take that to the bank and tell me what it is worth.
Best regards
DaveUK
HA! You never fail to make me laugh.
I must offer a word of caution however. The pharaohs were buried with their riches, but most were eventually dug up by grave robbers. Who knows? Maybe an HW99 will be worth more than a 24kt gold sarcophagus in the future. I would hate to see you dug up. Neville Chamberlain on the other hand…
I suppose all my airguns will be displayed in the museum erected in my honor. LOL!!!
Slinging Lead:
Now Chamberlain was the guy who said “In my hand,I have a piece of paper” which spawned lavatory humour over here in the late 1930’s.
I think he was even a Prime minister once.lol
You have a superb sense of humour and unlike me, also know your stuff concerning air gun’s SL.
A wicked combination 🙂
I don’t mind if I am dug up.As long as I am nice a stinky.Make em work for that HW99s lol.
DaveUK
After having the scope on the 97 pretty close under some pretty bad conditions a couple days ago, then shooting a bunch into the pellet trap to get some more through it, I thought this morning with a bench rest and no wind would be a piece of cake.
Wrong.
Did not start out well, and progressively got worse with squirrely groups and moving poi. Scope adjustments did not seem to work right.
After I got home and got my hands warmed up enough to check screws, I found that both screws in the trigger guard were loose, but the front stock screws were still tight. All screws were tightened before I shot it the first time.
TA DA!!
Time for LOCTITE MAN and his faithful companion SCREWDRIVER BOY !!!
Will see if that holds the bugger.
twotalon
Oh bat crap !!
With the screws loctited the scope is fubar too. Won’t adjust right, even though both adjustments are near centered. Got it centered enough by trial and error to get it pretty well zeroed.
Have two other AO scopes but won’t fit without high mounts.
PA gets a call for mounts and pellets tomorrow morning.
twotalon
New topic for a moment:
One of the things that helps support our sports, support air guns in particular, is the fact that one can win a gold medal in the Olympics. In fact, by tradition the first gold medal awarded is in women’s 10 meter air pistol. But there is serious talk of ditching some or all of the precision shooting sports because, let’s face it, watching 10 or 20 people stand shoulder to shoulder popping one shot each every minute or so is as much fun for a TV audience as a competitive paint drying contest. The final round is more dramatic, but still less than thrilling TV, and TV is what gets the IOC drooling.
The Europeans are trying some interesting experiments — possibly just to supplement the real competition in the kind of way that the ice skaters all get an evening to show off. Here’s a link to one event that was tried at the European Championship in Norway. Let me know what you think of it:
http://www.esc-shooting.org/index.php/article-with-comments
pz
Pete,
Would have liked to see more targets being hit. i.e.; On the first round they could show 4 random shooters and their targets then after that show the top 4 shooters from the previous round and their targets as they are being shot. Forget the noise making. I doubt it’s adding to the competition except keeping the audience busy.
-CJr
Slinging Lead,
Thank you, my life has not been lived in vain and certainly my time in purgatory will reflect the good I have accomplished.
Twotalon,
You about have me ready to pull the trigger on an HW77K.
To replace my R7 I settled on a .20 caliber R7 after a bunch of trial and error. My .22 cal FX Cyclone, I replaced with the same Cyclone with the gracious help of Mr. Kevin.
Now I have generously allowed myself one final rifle, and I had thought an R8 would be the ultimate goal. But reading about your HW97 purchase, I recall what a fine piece it is. They have a new thumbhole stocked HW97 that I had hoped would be lighter, but it actually weighs more if you can believe that!
This where the HW77K comes in, with a little more streamlined stock and same power plant it could just be the final piece of my puzzle. The perfect airgun trifecta, if one of these won’t do what I want, then I need a powder burner or I have lost all ability to shoot.
There is something I want to do with it if I tear it apart.
There is a pretty sharp edge at the breech end that catches the pellets when loading. They tend to snap into the bore. That could gouge the pellets and reduce accuracy. I like it smooth enough that they press in.Less deformation and easier loading.
Don’t see a good way to do this without removing everything so I can get in there for a little polishing.
twotalon
twotalon,
Sometimes the best part of a job is the prep work that sets it up. Maybe a complete stripdown is what you need to do the job right.
B.B.
Hi, actually the rear sight can be made adjustable for windage.
First take off the rear sight mount (the screw at the back), once this is done remove the screw on the sight base, this holds the windage drum in place.
Now with just the drum upside donwn in your hand you will see four raised posts in the form of a cross on the bottom of the drum. With a small X-acto knife trim these raised posts level with the drum or a little more.
Once that is done, place a very tiny amount of super glue in the sight drum hole careful not to get any outside of the hole. You probable don´t need to place glue in the hole, it´s your call as the screw is set very well. Next place the sight mount back on the drum and place the drum screw and tighten but not too tight. Place the mount back on the gun and now you have windage adjustment for the MP5k.
I am working on a full auto mod and should have this posted soon.
Cheers,
Glenn
Glenn P says: “am working on a full auto mod and should have this posted soon”
Good luck with this mod! I very much doubt you’ll find it possible to mod this version of the mp5k to fire automatically as it was designed to NOT do so and this is imprinted to its mechanisms, unlike the Baikal drozd which works on the basis of its electric trigger or the Walther ppk which actions on true blow back the mp5k doesn’t work on either systems, it is actioned by single pulls of the trigger only, the blow back ejector slide does not connect in anyway to an automatically second round release mechanism. Id like to see you pull this mod out the bag but my bets are on its design and the principle that this mp5k has been designed to fire semi only.
But….. here are some other mods that can be done……..
You can get the dummy cocking handle ( left hand pull ) to slide back and forth with the ejector by either replacing the main spring (pull together) with a weak push apart spring of the same size or by removing the spring and connecting the cocking levers rod to the ejector plates metal extending rod with a 6mm drill and a quarter inch 6mm self tapping screw, basically spot drill and connect. as mentioned above the fake cocking handle will slide with the blow back ejector shield, this is just for a tiny bit more recoil and looks purposes (cosmetic) only.
The front grip can me removed and replaced with a galaxy style kurz shroud (from Tokyo marui company or anyone else that may still have one, they are hard to find) which will give you a longer top rail, two side rails and a base mount, the shrouds (sleeves) can be found in both metal and abs plastic.
and… the plastic muzzle brake can be replaced with the true solid metal version (found at a hand full of airsoft retailers), and this is also true with the front sight which can be replaced with a full metal mp5k version also.
other than that… I have used the empty space inside the grip and a few other body areas to fill with lead shaped to fit which weights the mp5k to a closer overall weight to the real thing, as it was it was too hollow and too light, not anymore!
bye now.
Flobert from way back was having ricochet issues…
Quote: “It’s not the old days of being given all the Meisterkugelns I could shoot and in effect being paid to take ‘em. Those are light, soft, and well-behaved. The regular old pellets for regular old human beings I shoot now, can get around.”
Its a fact that all led based pellets will act relatively the same whether they are manufactured today or 40 years ago based on the principle that you are using the same type of backing (behind your target) that is. however ricochets accrue mostly with pellets when your rifle or pistol is running under 300fps, this is not really enough power to compress a pellet into its backing and causes it to basically bounce off, this can be true at both close and long ranges, golf balls do not make good targets, they are designed to withstand fast pressure and do compress and decompress which will defiantly react badly with steel (gold) mp5k BBS, safest bet is a pellet trap (trumpet) or chalk targets which explode into dust when stuck.
another option is to use zink based pellets.
Shoot safe now!
how to you strip it and fix the seals plz ?
Phil,
This BB gun is based on airsoft technology. I really don’t recommend disassembly.
B.B.