A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 – Part 10

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 9
Part 8
Part 7
Part 6
Part 5
Part 4
Part 3
Part 2
Part 1

Well, I’ve finally healed enough to cock the FWB 124 breakbarrel, so today I’ll test the rifle at 25 yards with the best modern pellets against the Beeman Silver Jets. If you recall, that premise is what started this entire report so very long ago.

Today is going to show some wonderful things, and we’re going to prosper from this experience far beyond the 124 and into the world of modern pellet rifles and scopes. So, sit back and let it come to you!

I scoped the 124 with a Leapers 3-9×50 scope sitting in BKL two-piece mounts. In retrospect, boy am I glad I used the two-piece rings because of what ultimately happened.

As you recall, the last time I tested this rifle was with six modern pellets and Beeman Silver Jets left over from the 1990s. All the pellets did well, but I selected three to compete at 25 yards. So, let’s test the gun.

Sight-in revealed a gun that both buzzed when shot and also one that shot very low. The buzzing will have to be corrected because I want a super-smooth rifle. The low grouping doesn’t phase me one bit, except that I can use it to illustrate a concept that I get asked about several times a month. That concept is either scope shift or an inaccurate spring gun.

I also seasoned the bore with three shots before recording any groups. That may or may not be enough, but that’s what I did. The theory on this is that each new pellet needs several shots before it begins to perform its best. I don’t know whether I believe it or not, but it’s all the rage right now, so I did it.

Beeman Kodiaks
The first pellets I tested were Beeman Kodiaks. Veteran airgunners will remember the Kodiak as a 10.6-grain pellet, but blog reader CJr discovered in May that they’re not really that heavy. Edith has updated the description on the website to reflect the 10.2 grains they actually weigh. Apparently, this is going to be the weight of that pellet.

I was disappointed with the performance of Kodiaks at 25 yards out of the 124, because they gave me a group that was strung out vertically. I dialed the scope 10 clicks down and continued to shoot a different pellet. However, the vertical stringing was a clue about something that was happening…and happening real bad. The reason I dialed the elevation down 10 clicks was to tighten the spring of the erector tube inside the scope to keep it from floating. Vertical stringing is a sign that a scope has been adjusted too high. You’ll remember how the erector tube is supported by a spring from the scope report I did last week.


This vertical string of 10 Kodiaks tells me the erector tube is floating.

Air Arms Falcon
The next pellet I tried was the one that had performed the best at 10 meters — the Air Arms Falcons. I grouped pretty good at 25 yards, but not as good as the R8 did last month. I’ll never forget that rifle’s performance, and I don’t see why this 124 shouldn’t be just as accurate. So, I cranked in 10 more clicks of down into the scope.


The first groups of Air Arms falcon pellets is still open. More verticality says we haven’t solved the problem yet.

The next group was superb, but it had one teaser flyer that opened it to a half-inch. And that flyer was also vertical, so I cranked in another 10 clicks of down.


Things are getting much better with the second bunch of Falcon pellets after another 10 clicks down, but that flyer is still vertical above the main group.

As you can see, the pellets are still landing in a vertical string. Once more, I cranked in 10 down clicks. At this point, we are 40 clicks down from where we started.

Air Arms 8.4 domes
The next pellet I tried were the Air Arms domes that weigh 8.4 grains. Although there’s a trace of verticality to the group they made, the group is starting to look much rounder, which is what I’m after.


The bunch of 10 Air Arms domes is a pretty round group. It’s the second-best group of this test.

I actually shot several groups with the 8.4 domes, and they all turned out round like I wanted. Plus, they gave me the second-best group I got during this test.

With this success under my belt, I tried another 10 Kodiaks and got a rounder group than before, but also one that was too large for any further testing. Clearly, Kodiaks are not the pellet for this rifle.

Beeman Silver Jets
It was now time to try the Silver Jets, so I seasoned the bore and shot two groups of almost identical size. They were smaller than the Kodiaks but were not as small as the Air Arms domes or the Falcons. So, I reckoned there was but one more thing to try.


These ten Beeman Silver Jets went pretty tight but not as tight as several other pellets.

Crosman Premier lites
I had mentioned during the 10-meter test that I didn’t select Crosman Premier 7.9-grain domes to test because I simply didn’t. Several of you commented that the Premier lites were the most accurate in your 124 rifles, so I thought I’d include them in this test as a last-minute write in. I’m glad I did, because they turned in the best group of the day.


Ten Premier lites made the best target of this test. Whoda thunk it? I should have tested them at 10 meters.

This test was not complete because I did not return and retest all pellets after discovering that the scope had been a problem in the beginning. I didn’t because I was bursting with something else to tell you — namely how a scope that’s improperly adjusted can ruin your day. I hope you have seen that in the groups I’ve shown here today. But we’re not done!

Fix it, please
I get requests all the time from readers who have similar problems after they’ve mounted a scope. They have huge vertical groups and don’t understand why. I explained why last week in the scope report, so go back and reread that report to better understand.

The problem isn’t the scope, but rather how it’s being adjusted. And that was proven as I applied more and more clicks of down adjustment until the tension on the erector tube stopped the tube from floating. Only now, I gotta fix it. And that’s why I’m so happy that I used two-piece scope mounts. You can always turn one-piece mounts around to try to fix a problem like this, and that will probably work, but with two-piece mounts you can also turn each piece separately from the other, which gives you two more adjustments you can make.

I’m going to remount this scope to see if I can get it to stop shooting three inches low at 25 yards without resorting to the vertical adjustment that we now know will not work. Then, I’ll shoot some more at 25 yards to show the difference. And even that’s not the end of it.

While talking with Gene Salvino, the technical manager at Pyramyd Air, I discovered that Pyramyd Air has had the FWB 124 piston seal reproduced. He said that when they took over the high-end Beeman guns for support, they had to start fixing everything that came in, and of course the 124 will be one of those. Gene sent me one of the seals. So, by golly, you know that I’m going to install it in the rifle for a test. And, I’ll have a test for you to see how it performs.

Then, one of our readers told me about a place that machines the compression chamber to have parallel walls instead of the tapered walls it has in the earlier guns like mine. That will open up the power potential of the gun. Right now, I am debating whether or not to have this work done to this early San Anselmo gun. I certainly don’t need the power, nor do I even care to have it, but it might be nice to see a before and after of a job like this. We’re going to have fun with this 124 for some time to come.

73 Responses to “A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 – Part 10”

  • Jay in VA Says:

    BB,

    This is great information concerning scope problems, and worth remembering, particularly for scopes that move from rifle to rifle. Given this, do you think it’s worth while spending 5-10 minutes to optically center a scope before mounting it (assuming you have adjustable mounts)?

    Jay

  • Mr B. Says:

    Morning B.B.,

    The cause of the vertical stringing with my 350 Magnum is no longer a mystery. I’ll wait until tomorrow before I do anything like shimming the little rascal to make sure that’s what I need to do. Thanks

    Bruce

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Bruce,

      This is why I like air rifles to have open sights. I knew from the 10-meter test that this rifle did not string shots vertically.

      B.B.

    • twotalon Says:

      I don’t know how your 350 compares with my 48, but I find that holding the gun too far forward causes vertical stringing for me. Most of my guns will string vertical if not held to be nose heavy.
      Horizontal stringing is a result of a bad trigger or bad hold with my trigger hand.

      Then there are groups that keep moving around, and adjustments don’t work right. I have gotten this from several scopes even though they were close to centered.

      Can’t get a good gun, can’t get a good scope. Somebody hates me.

      twotalon

      • Mr B. Says:

        twotalon,

        Thank you for your advice. I’ll have to wait until late today to try it out- playing taxi for a sick friend.

        Bruce

        • twotalon Says:

          Watch out for a couple other things too.
          I have some guns that I simply can’t get to shoot right from a bench, no matter how I rest the gun. I think it has to do with the bench setup throwing my whole body out of position. These guns become very different animals when shot from more natural positions.

          A lot of different possible problems, but as B.B. says…If you have open sights to compare, it can help point you in the right direction.

          twotalon

  • Frank B Says:

    In light of what Jim Maccari shared with us….It seems like the ideal cure would be a ride on the Sunnen hone machine.If you are hesitant to sacrifice yours,you are welcome to try with mine(#9021)
    first! I will gladly send it to you and pay for the line honing….I’ll even throw in my first year 440 block,
    .030 over please:)

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Frank,

      I couldn’t do that, but thank you very much. At Roanoke I’m going to look for an older 124 that I can buy for not too much money. I don’t think I want to modify this one, because of the history.

      B.B.

      • Frank B Says:

        So that’s no on the 124 AND the 440? LOL I completely understand your hesitance….probably the same reason I don’t want to bore an engine that is 43 years old and only has 58,000 miles on it.

      • kevin Says:

        Collector value.

        The Enshrined FWB 124 is no longer a virgin. It’s been tuned. Modified. That adds value to me. How well the tune performs would determine how much added value to me. The pristine condition of the exterior, the custom case and history also add value to me.

        If I owned that FWB 124 I would take it to Roanoke and trade one or two guns to Paul Watts for his advanced tune and his advanced trigger work. Paul is one of those few that can work magic on the finicky FWB 124/127 triggers. His sunnen hone treatment of the compression chamber is now standard in his advanced tunes. I wouldn’t do this for power but for longevity of the tune and consistency of velocity and smoothing out the shot cycle. I don’t like buzzy. That’s just me.

        Since I’ve done this twice with two of my FWB 124′s I can say without any doubt that this adds value to the gun as an owner and also adds value if I’m a buyer.

        kevin

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Kevin,

          Of course you are right. I have had this gun apart so many times that it’s far from the enshrined mummy I once had.

          I trust your judgement about Paul Watts. I remember him when he first started out experimenting with spring gun tunes. Now he is a master.

          You have given me much to ponder.

          B.B.

          • kevin Says:

            B.B.,

            I’m right for me not necessarily you. Having said that, I can assure you that you won’t be disappointed in a Watts SMOOTH tune for an FWB 124 as long as you also allow him to work his magic on the trigger too.

            kevin

            • Frank B Says:

              I own one of the FWB’s that recieved the Advanced tune while Kevin had it.The difference between it and the early one that is untuned is day and night.Like comparing a Rolex and a Timex…..!

              • kevin Says:

                Frank B,

                Yours was tuned for power but turned out with a nice firing cycle considering the power it generates. The other was tuned for smoothness and was shooting around 750fps with mid weight pellets as I remember. Out of the 3 I had you have the one that shot the fastest, was in the best condition and is silly accurate. That’s a fine, classic airgun.

                kevin

  • twotalon Says:

    If you are going to use adjustable mounts or not it could be useful to center a scope first, then mount it. Shoot a large target that you can still get the pellets to hit. Look to see how far the scope would have to be adjusted to get it zeroed. If the scope will have to be adjusted a lot , then be wary that you could run the scope out of it’s workable range. You can see if you could expect a problem.

    Some scopes can be adjusted quite a bit before they fall apart, while others can’t.
    You can also have a scope that is bad even when centered.

    Don’t count clicks to center the scope. I have some that are proof that it does not work.
    You need to roll the scope in v blocks or put the rifle in a gun vise, lay the scope in the rings (leaving the caps off) and roll it . The v blocks or gun vise have to be jockeyed to get the scope looking at a fixed reference point at a distance . 20 yds or better will do.

    Center a scope before using adjustable mounts. Adjust the mounts just as close as you can before doing your fine touch up with the scope.

    twotalon

  • twotalon Says:

    B.B.
    Good to hear that you are doing good enough to start shooting again. At least the light weights.

    twotalon

  • AlanL Says:

    B.B.,

    That was fascinating. Now pray tell an ignoramus like me how/why turning a two piece mount around will affect vertical adjustment of the scope? I thought they were entirely parallel and that only shimming would alter the height. Also, I always installed mine so that the tightening screw (for the rail) was oriented in the same direction.

    AlanL

    • twotalon Says:

      I have a couple two piece mounts that adjust both vertical and horizontal. You can get a sope to point almost any direction you want with them.
      They also adjust themselves to hold the scope evenly and prevent twisting on the scope tube.

      twotalon

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Alan L

      A tip from a fellow ignoramus. Due to manufacturing tolerances, the rings are likely to be slightly slanted one way or the other. It won’t be enough to tell by looking at it usually, but if your POI is very low it is the first thing to try, as shimming is a compromise.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Alan,

      Slinging Lead got it right. No rings are perfect. If they droop in this arrangement, always try them the other way. Hopefully, that will fix the problem.

      Since these are two-piece rings, I cam also turn each of them around, giving me two more adjustment possibilities.

      B.B.

      • twotalon Says:

        B.B.
        I lapped the rings on my Talons.
        You would not believe how far from being even and square to each other that they were. Now the scopes lay in nice and flat with no twisting or bending. Stress is relieved.

        Don’t want to ever move the mount positions. Since the rails are never perfect, the rings would have to be lapped again.

        twotalon

        • AlanL Says:

          Wow! That means that a scope is being stressed or even severely strained when you tighten the cap screws and lock it in. I’d have thought the manufacturing tolerances would be better than that.

          TwoTalon, Nick & Derrick: Here everybody goes nuts tuning their guns to the nth degree, and then it turns out rings are out of whack! Business opportunity: with your amazing machining skills you could sell “corrected” rings! In fact, one-piece mounts could be machined with a very tiny slope in the base to allow for adjustment through axial orientation as well, with trued rings.

          I know that the UTG mounts have a deliberate slope built in to compensate for droop in the RWS Diana rifles (except the 350), but I never imagined the rings would pose an additional problem, maybe even to the point of counteracting (or overdoing) any correction slope in the base.

          AlanL

          • twotalon Says:

            Nothing man made is ever perfect.
            Some of the one piece mounts are pretty close to right because the whole thing is done at the same time. Seperate rings can have an awful lot of variability built in. It may or may not be enough to cause significant problems.
            I only go to extremes in just a few cases. Not all the time.

            I think it would be interesting to test a set of crummy rings before and after lapping through some controlled environment testing . Lets say every 10 or 20 degrees of temperature to see how bad poi shifting will happen in comparison. On the same gun and with the same scope of course.
            There will also be some poi shifting anyway due to temperature change, but there should be at least some change in shift with the setup as original stressed condition and the de-stressed condition.

            twotalon

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    BB

    Don’t you ever get tired of taking that thing apart?

    Edith must be doing some fine cooking for you to heal so fast. At this rate, you will be able to cock a Webley Patriot with your right hand and a RWS 350 magnum with your left hand by Christmas. It makes me feel good that you’re feeling good.

    twotalon

    Thank you for your observations regarding stringing. About half the time I am shooting bad groups it is because of vertical stringing. I believe this will help me.

    • twotalon Says:

      There are a lot of things that can cause problems. The same symptoms can come from different and even multiple sources. You can try to eliminate the problem one way, but it still can persist. You have to weed your way through many possibilities to find just what the real problem is without building in a new problem.

      Not always one easy solution. Can drive you nuts . No standard fix. Work through every possibility you can think of.

      twotalon

  • DaveUK Says:

    BB:
    Well that helps explain why I have had very erratic experiences with scopes over the years.
    Sticking to one piece mounts like I did and not knowing how to adjust them either, wouldn’t have helped.

    twotalon:
    Cheers for that info about my compound bow.
    Neither my bow or pistol crossbow are any great shakes but good enough to keep my hand in another shooting discipline.
    Also like Edith, I think worse case scenario’s.Bows have served mankind very well for thousands of years.
    Thank goodness politicians have forgot that and so haven’t banned them here.
    DaveUK

  • Brian in Idaho Says:

    BB On my Gamo .22 Whisper (Nitro Piston), I have progressively “run out” of vertical adjustment with an old Bushnell scope. I figured that the Bushnell couldn’t take the beating so, I mounted a new Hawke 4-12X40 and… I have it zeroed at 30 meters but, have used approx 75% of the vertical adjustment (Up) on the new scope too.

    What’s next? Adjustable mounts? Gamo barrel is drooping like an RWS guns? Or… other break-barrel issues I should consider?

    I’m at a loss here.

    Brian

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Brian,

      Just watch what I do with the 124 and do the same. Adjustable mounts are an option, but ever since B-Square started getting their mounts made in China the quality has been off.

      So watch me and do as I do.

      B.B.

      • Brian in Idaho Says:

        Thanks BB and, what do you think of the BKL (fixed .007 compensator) mounts? Are those a better remedy than the B-Square adjustable types? How about the RWS brand, is it adjustable or fixed compensation?

        Brian

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Brian,

          Well, I’m going over to AirForce tomorrow, so I might just pick up a set of those drooper mounts for this test. I was unaware that RWS now has drooper mounts. They would be fine, too, but remember, the FWB I’m testing doesn’t have a scope stop, so I need the BKLs.

          B.B.

    • Robert from Arcade Says:

      Although you have mentioned you hate to use them, use a shim on the offending ring. See if it makes the problem go away ,then consider adjustable mounts, Robert.

  • pcp4me Says:

    Dang,

    I feel left out. Never had any of these scope problems! No shifting poi, no vertical or horizontal stringing. Guess I have just been lucky. I have always bought inexpensive scopes and slapped them on the gun and zeroed them.

    Of course most of my shooting has been max 200 yards as I never belonged to a range that had a longer firing point. And every deer I have shot has been less than 50 yards. Even the farthest shot on a squirrel was 90 yards max.

    Oh well, cheers to an uncomplicated life!

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      pcp4me,

      After 100 yards all these little problems go away. Deer hunters are oblivious to the problems we are dealing with here. At 25 yards the parallax is huge and that’s where the problems come from.

      B.B.

  • pcp4me Says:

    BB,

    Can some one help me? I am looking for a near competition grade recoiless pistol. I have always admired the Diana model 6 and 10 pistols. Now I have an offer from a buddy to buy his Beeman/Diana 850 at about 95% finish for $225. The gun looks to be in excellent mechanical shape. It has a few areas with flaked off paint but not terribly bad.

    Can anyone give me some idea what this gun is worth? Also can you tell me how accurate it is? Is it accurate enough for 10 meter pistol competition?

    If not is there a pistol in the <$300 range which is accurate enough for 10 meter pistol competition.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      pcp4me,

      A Diana model 6 or equivalent isn’t a good ten-meter pistol because it doesn’t have target stocks. You really need those to compete. The 6 is accurate enough, but lacking the target stocks will cost you 5-10 points per match, and you don’t want that.

      What about a good used IZH 46M? That’s a gun that has competed at the regional level.

      B.B.

  • Gene Says:

    Dang!!! More variables!! lol

    I have wondered about this, while clicking and not knowing if it is “locked” tight. Thanks for the info.

  • kevin Says:

    Slinging Lead,

    Alright come clean. You teased us about your new acquisition of that terrific weihrauch that Paul Watts tuned for himself. Tell us about your initial impressions.

    kevin

  • CowBoyStar Dad Says:

    RWS Match Grade B.B.’s
    I don’t know if anyone here has tried them (I can’t find them on Pyramyd’s site)…but ya gotta!!
    I picked up a bottle at my local Fishing supply shop (of all places…they carry a couple of Umarex pistols and last week got in a shipment of the above B.B.’s).
    Well, they are expensive…$5.99/1500 v.s $4 for Copperheads ;-)
    But WOW. Last night in my basement I tested them at 30 ft. 10 shot groups in my sons Elite II went from 4″ (Copperheads) to 2.5″ (RWS).
    But the biggest change was in the PPK/s. 8″(Copperhead) down to a little over 3″!!!
    I’ve always looked at the PPK as way too much fun in such a small package, but it definitely wasn’t in the game, accuracy-wise.
    But 3″ from this little puppy is pretty damned good in my opinion.
    This weekend we’re going to try them for long distance shooting. say 40′ ;-) in the Red Ryders!

  • Brian in Idaho Says:

    BB and all:

    Have not seen a lot of chatter on this blog regarding Bore Scopes or Laser Alignment bore scopes.

    Anybody use them? Good? Bad? Ugly?

    Seems to me, that the multi-caliber types (12ga to .17 cal) tapered shaft would not insert very far into the bore of a .177 pellet gun? ie: about 20% of the bore alignment tool would engage the barrel?

    Brian

    • twotalon Says:

      One other glitch…
      What about how a choke ? that could really make a bore sighter tough to use.
      Same problem with some recrowning tools. The farther you get into the bore, the looser it gets. Hard to get any kind of alignment.

      twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Brian,

      There is zero need for a boresighter for a pellet gun that can be sighted in at 10 feet. Zero need. They are a waste of time and money.

      B.B.

    • kevin Says:

      Brian in Idaho,

      I have a bore sight. It attaches to the outside of the barrel. No intrusion inside the barrel like some bore sights.

      I’ve never used it on a pellet gun since pellets are so cheap. Start at 10 feet, adjust scope. Move to 20 yards adjust scope. B.B. has a blog on “sighting in a scope”. You don’t need a bore sight/bore laser.

      kevin

      • Brian in Idaho Says:

        Exactly!

        Thx Kevin, and I bookmarked the scope centering page for more reading

        • kevin Says:

          Brian in Idaho,

          I’m going to save you a lot of time, money and frustration.

          Don’t buy a RWS Drooper Mount to correct your barrel droop. They’re terrible. I’ve had problems with the newer b-square adjustables since they apparently made the adjustment screws smaller and softer.

          Look at the bkl’s and also look at the sportsmatch/beeman adjustable mount. They’re both made very well. You may also want to consider bending the barrel. Having your current rings machined for droop is also an option. Making inserts for your existing rings out of the two color epoxy sticks also works well but is easier if you have a gun vise for final adjustments of your scope inside the soft inserts you create prior to allowing it to dry.

          kevin

  • Matt61 Says:

    Very interesting about the vertical stringing resulting from the erector tube and surprising that it persisted even after a lot of vertical adjustment of the scope. And I’ll express my gratitude again for that tip about switching two piece mounts to align a scope. When the scope on my Anschutz failed to zero after I had spent 20 minutes digging in the dirt to find a missing scope screw, I was at my wit’s end. How nice to know that there was nothing wrong with my equipment.

    B.B., yes, retail will bring out human nature. My brother, who is much more adventurous than I, told me that on a trip to China, he somehow got caught up in watching a black market bargaining session in Chinese. The two principals were bargaining over a motorscooter for hours and hours. At one point, things got heated enough that they started shoving each other. My brother started looking for the exit. But then the deal was struck and one of them laughed and said that the other guy was not a particularly hard bargainer at all….

    CowBoyStar Dad, I wasn’t chucking Yur’yev out the window. Quite the contrary, he’s great. I’m chucking the technique of breathing between heartbeats out the window since he doesn’t even mention it. Yay.

    Flobert, yes the problem of keeping track of the tiny white line in the 6 o’clock hold had occurred to me. I’m still waiting to see how this will work out. I’m not sure I follow your method of the imaginary white bull below the black one. Whether you are using a center hold or a 6 o’clock hold on the imaginary bull, it seems like you will be dealing with a lot of white space.

    BG_Farmer, my tangent method is based on the definition from calculus that a line tangent to a circle touches the circle at exactly one point. With the front sight post as the line, this just means that the post touches the very bottom of the bull–the standard 6 o’clock hold. Elmer Keith is with you in discarding the 6 o’clock hold. “Aim where you shoot,” he says in his classic way. I like that idea. But if you are shooting at a black bull, a center hold with a post will not give you a precise sight picture unless the x-ring is highlighted somehow. In these cases, the 6 o’clock hold is a matter of expedience for me.

    Crossbow shooters, I saw a show called Warriors where a guy sought to measure the difference in firing rates between an English longbow and a medieval crossbow. He came up with 7 arrow shots per crossbow bolt. Maybe the modern crossbows are faster, but I doubt they can ever catch up to a traditional bow.

    Edith and B.B., that’s a great gift getting method you have worked out. I know of a relationship where the woman will return the guy’s gift if she doesn’t like it because she says that if he were paying sufficient attention to her, he would have chosen correctly…. I have such a list of cool things that I want that I am thinking of being crass and asking for money during the holidays.

    I don’t know if you heard of the Nobel prize that was awarded for the discovery of a substance derived from graphite that at one atom’s thickness is 100 times stronger than steel. This will usher in a revolutionary new era of lightweight materials. I’m not sure about the application to airguns since you don’t want to lighten the gun beyond a certain point. But I can sure see the application to radio-controlled with indestructible aircraft. I have that on my mind now in the midst of major repairs.

    Matt61

    • CowBoyStar Dad Says:

      My apologies Matt… I misread what you said, which should have been obvious. After the window comment you went on to say stuff that seemed to obviously agree with what Yur’ Yev had said.
      The old adage: “put brain in gear before engaging mouth (fingers)” applies here.

  • Fused Says:

    This is why I keep coming back day after day. If I stick around long enough, I may start to know what I’m talking about. You do realize, however, that you are making my excuses inexcusable. That’s very inconvenient, and humbling. But it occurs to me as I write this that it may also be removing long term frustration, providing the possibility of actually solving problems that are sure to arise – So thanks!

  • Victor Says:

    B.B.,

    This is great shooting, and a great shooting gun!

    I have a question regarding good powerful air-rifles that are offered in both 177 and 22 calibers. Is it true that the 22 version is inherently less accurate? That’s what I’ve read. I thought that the heavier projectile would make it more stable, and thus more accurate?

    Thanks,
    Victor

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Victor,

      That less-accurate thing was a fiction that the Beeman company promoted. All the ten-meter guns are in .177 so of course they are made better than almost anything else. But today with guns like the S410 and the Marauder in the world, it’s hard to sustain the fiction any longer. The .22 is no less accurate than the .177 for intrinsic reasons.

      B.B.

      • Victor Says:

        B.B.,

        Good to know. Is it likely that the .22 can be more accurate in a more powerful rifle (1000+ fps), at longer distances (again, because of the mass – stability)?

        Thanks,
        Victor

  • Flobert Says:

    Anyone use a red-dot sight on a springer? I know they use ‘em in NRA 3-gun pistol shooting, and so I assume they can take some vibration.

    • CowBoyStar Dad Says:

      I’ve been using a Vortex Red Dot on a springer for about a year now, with no issues.
      Bear in mind the gun is not a magnum (a bit under 600 fps). However I read somewhere that because there are no actual reticles, and that the LED diode isn’t really affected by vibration, the red dot is pretty trouble free on a springer.

  • CJr Says:

    BB,
    Another treasure trove of information!

    Question: Is it easy to damage a scope by adjusting it to an extreme. Can it run off a track or over compress a spring or bend something internally? I’m talking about normal finger adjustments with maybe a slight bit of pressure at the extreme because I’m never sure when I get to the end. Seems like some resistance is felt at the extreme but is that enough to cause damage?

    All the inside-the-barrel bore sights I’ve seen say they don’t work with guns with shrouds or suppressors.

    My .22 Marauder is my most accurate rifle. I am comparing it to (in order of accuracy for me) the following .177 rifles: Daisy 953, Talon SS, IZH-61, Walther Lever Action, Gamo Recon (yes, black), Ruger AirHawk, Crosman 1077.

    Cheap red dot sights are a waste of money – too much of a paralax issue.

    Kevin,
    Does the scope permanently stick to this epoxy you’re talking about, then? Epoxy sounds like glue so I’m guessing I’d better get it right the first time or else? Seems like I’m always making eye-relief adjustments or some such.

    pcp4me,
    I think you’d like the IZH-46. However, be advised, it cannot be scoped, or peep sighted. There is no scope rail. Maybe there is a peep replacement for the notch that it come with but I don’t know that. The notch would have to be removed. I’ve said it before, IMHO, the trigger is superb, the gun is easy to cock (single stroke), and it is accurate. As BB says it’s been in regional competition.

    -CJr

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      CJr,

      To answer the questions in your first paragraph, go watch the new video:

      http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/video/2010/10/episode-13-scope-sights-101-scope-adjustment/

      Edith

      • CJr Says:

        Edith,
        Thanks for that link. I watched that video and it is an excellent tutorial, however, he didn’t mention or caution about damage caused by over adjusting. So, I should assume that since he didn’t caution about over adjustment damage I shouldn’t worry about it?

        One thing I did learn (or at least I’ll remember it this time cause I’m sure BB has mentioned it before) is about taking at least three shot after adjusting the knob because the tube may not move with the click. It takes a few shots to shake the erector tube into the correct position. He said some shooters will tap the scope after adjustment to try to effect proper alignment.

        -CJr

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Chuck,

          I don’t think over-adjustment causes any damage that I know of. The coil springs do not take a set and there is no track for the erector tube to jump off of. It’s just that when one of the erector tube springs gets relaxed, the tube can move from place to place. Tightening the spring again always fixes it.

          B.B.

    • pcp4me Says:

      CJr & BB,

      Actually I am not going to be doing any match shooting. I just want a gun capable of match accuracy so I can improve my shooting. A “no excuses” gun.

      And actually what I REALLY want is such a gun in semi automatic with about a 10 round magazine or clip.

      However I can think on only maybe 3 such guns and none really fits all the wants.

      First is the Drulov DU 10. Not quite match grade accuracy and the semi auto feature is a little quirky. I have one and unfortunately the rear sight won’t adjust at all. The knob turns and clicks but no adjustment vertically. Not sure if it adjust horizontally either. So I have to either scope it or red dot. Red dot is too inaccurate to aim, and scope turns me off on a pistol. Wish I knew where I could get a replacement for the rear sight or get it repaired.

      Second is a Crossman 600 worked by Mac 1. No experience with them. Probably not match accuracy and not sure if trigger is any good either. Pricey also.

      Third is a Twinmaster trainer with wood match grips. Probably the match accuracy but not sure of the trigger being match grade as it appears to be double action and the clip is probably rotated by the trigger.

      Any thoughts on any of these any one?

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        pcp4me,

        The trigger on a Crosman 600 is at least as good as the one on your Drulov.

        It’s very accurate, too. Possibly as accurate as the Drulov with a new barrel.

        B.B.

  • sony mares Says:

    hi B B.

    i am sony from indonesia
    I just get fwb 124,
    But the barrel have 8 groove, i never hear about that..
    Have you information about this barrel..

    Best regard

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Sony,

      Your friend, Dennis, posted the same question about your barrel. No, I have not heard of an 8-groove barrel on a .177 124. I would bet it is an earlier gun.

      B.B.

      • sony mares Says:

        Thanks for ur reply
        earlier gun??
        when the fwb 124 or feinwerkbau air gun made first time and how to know??

        About barrel, barrel by fwb have any variant??, other than 12 groove, may be you know about this.

        Tks very much
        sony

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Sony,

          A lower serial number indicates an earlier gun. Also a black plastic trigger is earlier than an aluminim trigger.

          There were no barrel variations as far as I know.

          How are you counting the grooves in the barrel? Have you pushed a pellet through the barrel and counted the grooves on the pellet? Because that is the only way to do it.

          B.B.

  • sony mares Says:

    B B

    Thanks for your information..
    I just worried about my fwb 124 barrel, its fake or original barrel by fwb..

    And i dont know what must todo, to make sure this barrel original or not,..

    would you to suggest me, how do to test this barrel original or no..

    Thanks

    Sony mares

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Sony,

      Push a pellet through the barrel and count the grooves left on it. Are there eight or ten?

      If the barrel isn’t an FWB barrel, what can you do about it? can you get an FWB barrel? They are no longer made and won’d be hard to find in the U.S., except on a parts gun.

      Is the finish the same as on the rest of the metal? Do the marking say FWB or Feinwerkbau? If so it’s probably original.

      If your gun accurate? If so, why not just shoot it as it is?

      B.B.

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