Single mom teaches children to shoot – Part 6

Single mom teaches children to shoot – Part 6

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

Well, today mom is going to start the kids shooting actual pellet guns. We did that in Part 4, but in Part 5 we got back to the schoolroom training again, so I’m going to pretend that the kids haven’t touched off a shot yet.

She decided on the Daisy 953 for her boys and each boy has his own rifle, so the sights can be left set where he needs them. She bought the separate Daisy 5899 receiver sight for each rifle, figuring that if the boys wanted to go farther with this she could always upgrade.

Since mom is by herself, she will let one boy at a time shoot, while the other boy stands behind the line and helps her. This will make the sessions last longer, but the benefit will be a more rapid development of responsibility in both boys. That’s because the non-shooting boy will have to learn to subordinate his thoughts and desires (and his talking) while his brother shoots. If mom can’t get cooperation like that, she can always end the session early.

These are seven-year-old boys (referring back to Part 1), which is a little young for this, but each parent will have to decide that for themselves. Children mature at different rates, and I can’t set an absolute limit; however, we’re on the young side of formal training. That’s not to say a parent can’t have a lot of fun with kids much younger than this; but in that case, the parent is in complete control all the time. In the formal teaching scenario, we start putting trust in the children.

Since these boys are so young, we’ll let them rest their rifles on a rest while they shoot. Maybe next year, they’ll be able to try some prone shots, but right now everything is off a rest. Mom will probably have to pump the rifle for them. That 20 lbs. of single-stroke pumping effort is a bit much for kids this young to handle.

Step one for each boy in turn will be to sight in his rifle. We will have them take three shots at the top sighter bull of an NRA-sanctioned AR 5/10 12-bull target. (They can also use the Birchwood Casey sight-in target.) Then, we’ll call a cold line and mom and both boys will go downrange to look at the target. They’ll decide where the center of the three-shot group is, then return to the firing line; and the shooter, once permission is given by mom, will adjust the rear sight to move the group to the center of the bull. Mom will call the range hot again, and the shooter will fire three more shots at the same bull. Next, she’ll call the range cold, and once, again, all three people will go downrange to the target.

If the sight corrections were applied correctly (i.e., moving the rear sight in the direction we want the center of the group to move), the second group should be closer to the center of the bull. If it isn’t, the sights may have some slack that needs to be taken up. In other words, the sight needs to be adjusted farther than indicated by how much the group needs to move. The shooter should be recording this in a small notebook that he keeps with his rifle.

If the group has moved in the wrong direction, the shooter will record that and write instructions in front of his notebook on how to adjust the rear sight to move the shot group correctly. With 7-year-old shooters, mom will probably have to help a lot with this. The other boy is watching everything his brother is doing, so when it’s his turn he won’t have to learn all this again. Then, the line goes hot and three more shots.

This is kept up until the group seems centered on the 10-ring, which (on this target) is a tiny dot about the size of the period at the end of this sentence. If the top bull gets shot up, shift to the lower sight-in bull and continue until the rifle is sighted in. Then the shooters will switch and the other boy will sight in his rifle in the same way. Sighting in two rifles this way will probably take at least an hour. When the second rifle is done, the session will end. Hopefully, both boys will have some impression of the trigger by the time they’ve fired 12-20 shots through their rifles.

The next time they have a training session, the first thing each shooter will do is confirm their zero with the top sighting bull. If mom wants to speed the session along, she can put a telescope or a pair of binoculars at the firing line so the shooter can see his target without going forward. In competition, each shooter will have a spotting scope at his or her position and will adjust it every time they change shooting positions. For now, we don’t need to be that formal.

136 Responses to “Single mom teaches children to shoot – Part 6”

  • Flobert Says:

    What a NEAT article …. let me be the first to say ….

    My little Gamo Delta just ain’t doodly against possums!

    The two guns someone suggested to me for night-time farm-type shooting are neat guns, but not what I have in mind for a “ranch” gun. My ideal “ranch” pellet gun should be:

    C02 to keep costs down as the gun should not cost more than $200
    .22 caliber
    multiple shot – I don’t care if it needs a whole Powerlet to get 6 shots, 6-10 shot repeater
    Sights optimized for night use. Ghost ring and post are good, most shots will be close in
    Mount for a flashlight to use in aiming. Should fit a standard like an LED Maglight

    Read “To Shoot An Elephant” by George Orwell to get an idea of shooting tough critters like possums with a .177 at 500 or so fps.

    I’m going to see if I can optimize my little bolt-action Marlin for night work. And see if I can get a decent way to make off the shelf solid nose CB longs/shorts into hollowpoints devised. And test. Homemade ballistic gel here we come!

    • twotalon Says:

      Possums are hard to kill. In spite of not being built very heavy and not having extra tough skin they are still tough.
      They have a brain that is smaller than any other animal pound for pound. They don’t seem to know that they have been hit.
      Dropping one with any airgun is just plain tough. Can even be tough with a rimfire.
      I got hold of some subsonic LRHP from Winchester one time. They were made in Australia. Did not shoot bad, and were pretty quiet.
      Have seen some CBs that would not do much more than get through the skin of a tree rat.

      twotalon

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        twotalon,

        Speaking of CB caps, I’m planning to do a comparison test of sound levels and accuracy with them. Maybe I’ll add ballistics to the list.

        B.B.

        • twotalon Says:

          The last ones I had were CCI I think. About 700 fps out of my 521T. Tried them out of my Supermatic, but they would not eject. No surprise. It won’t eject some of the subsonic LR either.
          My brother had some CB one time but can’t remember the brand. You could hear the firing pin drop with them.

          twotalon

          • B.B. Pelletier Says:

            twotalon,

            I will be shooting CCI .22 CB Short rounds. They are 29-grain round-nosed lead bullets and of course only priming compound. I plan on shooting them from two rifles that are chambered for the .22 short cartridge.

            I plan to pit them against the .22 Condor with a bloop tube to test for relative sound, muzzle energy and accuracy out to 50 yards.

            I have heard for so many years how stupid it is to pay so much for a airgun when a CB cap is just as accurate, just as quiet and more powerful. That’s what prompted my test.

            Perhaps I ought to expand the test rifles to what most people have–maybe a 10/22 and a bolt gun like the Remington 521T.

            Any thoughts?

            B.B.

            • twotalon Says:

              They do not shoot very well out of my 521. Velocity was not very consistent either.
              Never had a gun chambered for shorts only.
              I am pretty sure the Condor will rule the day for range and accuracy. Noise? the CB caps will probably win that contest for quiet.

              I doubt that many of us have rifles chambered for shorts. They would probably be more accurate from a short gun than a lr gun.
              twotalon

            • Lloyd Says:

              B.B.,
              I bet the Condor will blow the CB’s out of the water from every quantifiable aspect. Your testing will be very interesting and ought to turn a few heads. I was trying various “quiet” .22 ammo a few years ago ( I have my notes stashed away), and if memory serves me, the CB velocity was all over the map. But some of the low vel pistol match (Eley) ammo was a different story. A little quieter and slower than the subsonics, with consistent velocity.
              Vince’s comment about the residual velocity of the CBs makes a real case for the safety of pellet rifles. After all, if you can’t accurately hit anything past 50( for the CB’s?) yds, why do you want any velocity beyond that?
              Lloyd

              • B.B. Pelletier Says:

                lloyd,

                I’m cheating in this report because I have already shot the CB caps at 50 yards and the results weren’t very pretty. At least not from a pellet rifle standpoint. Also, I’m pretty sure the quieted Condor will be much quieter than the CB caps, plus it should have two to three times the power.

                But this is what every non-airgunner says when faced with the facts of what air rifles can do. They run to the CB caps and hide behind them. So I’m bringing them out into the spotlight.

                This will be a feature article for Shotgun News in 2011.

                B.B.

                • Flobert Says:

                  Actually what I think would work for me is a Gamo Big Cat or that other one, same action green stock, with a very basic scope or red dot (red dots manage OK on pistols, does this mean they can do OK on a springer?) in .22, and use pointed .22 pellets.

                  Indeed, I put a lot of .177 lead into these possums (there were 2) and I have a feeling I’m going to find ‘em out there today, probably right up there in that tree.

                  B.B., a comparison between CB’s and pellets would be very fun and educational to read. I have a ton of CCI CB’s in Short and Long. All round-nose solid point. I found that a nice flush-cutting pair of diagonal cutters like Xcelite 1178M (these are not very expensive) can do a very neat job of putting a flat nose on a CB round. So I could in essence shoot wadcutters at the vermin. But this is probably going to make accuracy even worse. It’s a good thing this is all close-up shooting for me.

                  I want to come up with a tool that you insert the CB round into, twist it a few times, and there’s a drill bit in there, so that the round is held in line so the hole goes in fairly straight, and the drill bit makes a little hollowpoint hole, and the thing is set up so you don’t drill the hole too deep.

                  (My Sheridan is now for sale to finance the aforementioned Big Cat and red dot etc.)

        • Vince Says:

          Some CB ballistics are available here:

          http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=3&loadNo=0026

          Compared to pellets, look at how much velocity they don’t lose at 50 or 100 yards!

      • Lloyd Says:

        Funny, I thought all ‘possums were born dead on the side of the road.
        Lloyd

        • twotalon Says:

          I would rather run over a possum than a coon. From experience, I can say that a coon is a lot more solid. Feels like you hit a concrete block. Possums are more of a thump-thump.

          twotalon

    • twotalon Says:

      Watch the home made ballistics gel.
      I have read many posts about making the stuff various ways, and it does not stop pellets very easily. You need a really BIG block of it.
      Not at all as solid as duct seal. That stuff is heavy and tough.

      twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Flobert,

      Just one thing–CO2 might not be the way to go. It looses so much power when the temperature drops way off.

      And why a $200 price point? Why not see what can be done before limiting the cost. The Discovery is already pretty close to perfect for this, though the price is too high.

      B.B.

      • Flobert Says:

        Good point. PCP may be the way to go, and 2000psi is fine, or even less, 1500, if the gun is designed that way. Achievable with a hand pump I believe, isn’t there a new Benjamin or something that’s not too expensive, maybe $400?

  • twotalon Says:

    B.B.
    Adjusting sights……..
    It’s unbelievable how many people don’t know which way to move a front or rear sight. And they are always telling others wrong. Makes you wonder if they have ever handled a gun , much less adjusted sights. Must be low mechanical aptitude.

    There are some who don’t know how to adjust a scope. I see it all the time on other forums. They are always telling people wrong. Have these guys ever adjusted a scope? I doubt it.

    twotalon

  • Milan Says:

    Update on ballistic jelly – size of the block 22 cm,point blank, pellets RWS hobby for Diana, for Slavia same shape of pellets but plain cheap pellets… -results a)Slavia 631-6,5 cm b)Slavia 634-8,5 cm c)Diana 34(22cal) 15 +/- cm

    • twotalon Says:

      You must have your formula about right for what you are doing.
      Some ballistics gel formulas are not much better than thick Jello, and you can end up shooting holes in the wall unless you have a block a couple feet long.

      Something else that is fun is shooting different pellets down into a large trash can full of water . You can recover them and look at the rifling marks, or see how different pellets expand in water. If you try this, put a sheet of plastic on top of the water to keep from getting splashed.

      twotalon

      • Milan Says:

        Interesting idea !There is nothing to it if you wanna make bal. gel take lots of jello powder (min 10 bags for aprox 1l )on every bag goes 4 large soup spoon of water leave it for 10 min ,then heat it, then put it into the water and heat it again then put it into the container to shape it ,but you can put inside the bowl plasic foil or something not to stick to the container and refrigerate all,after you do that and you are not satisfied with ticknes RE MELT IT and add some more jello powder and this is it ;) dont mind my english

        • twotalon Says:

          Don’t worry about your english. I have been to enough websites that show me that a lot of us are much worse at english than you are. You are easy enough to understand. There are some of us that nobody can understand.

          There must be something that can be added to your Jello that will keep it from getting moldy so you won’t have to make a new batch every so often. Or maybe freeze it so it will keep for a while.
          You could always use green Jello so the mold will not show.

          I remember some bad jello we had in the military. It was either watery like Coolaid (you could drink it)or tough as silicone rubber. You could bounce it off a wall like a rubber ball and let it lay in the hot sun for hours. It would not melt.

          twotalon

        • Milan Says:

          One more thing -add food preservative .My jelly is about 4 months old :) every time when i shoot enough pellets in gel i just remelt it so there is no “best before” for this :)

          • Milan Says:

            One more thing leave it IN A FRIDGE don t freeze it or you will have to re melt it ;)

            • DaveUK Says:

              Milan:
              After watching ‘Mythbusters’ making body moulds for ballistic tests, I thought “I recognise that stuff”
              We used it in the dental trade for making copies of plaster teeth moulds.
              Heat it up in a saucepan and pour over the original casting.
              I could have got it by the bucket load back then.
              On our next shopping trip I will stick a few packets of Jello in the trolley.
              DaveUK

              • Slinging Lead Says:

                Milan

                Good to see you got some springs for that Diana. Nothing worse than not being able to shoot one of your favorites.

                Thanks for the recipe.

      • Lloyd Says:

        Twotalon,
        Plastic sheet over the water. Why didn’t I think of that..Duh!!
        Thanks for the tip.
        Lloyd

  • DaveUK Says:

    BB and Paul in Liberty County:
    Checked a couple of sites over here and we do have JSB’s as well. Phew!
    Nice to know that Air arms and Daystate are singing from the same song sheet though :)
    Cheers.
    DaveUK

    • Brian in Idaho Says:

      Dave in UK

      How goes it mate?

      I know that I (and I think others here) would appreciate reading a few paragraphs from you on your favorite shooting locations and some details on the airgun scene in England from your perspective.

      Rabbits? Grackels? Rats? …what do you hune or shoot and what’s the countryside and terrain like where you live and shoot? Favorite gun shops or airgun stores for you?

      From what I read, airguns are generally far more accepted as an “adult” pastime or hobby in England than in the States, in part I think to the draconian firearms laws over there?

      Anyway… just a thought about sharing your musings for all of us across the pond form your outpost there in old blightey.

      Brian in Idaho

      • DaveUK Says:

        Hi Brian:
        Well I have to be honest,you guy’s got the short straw with me coming on BB’s forum compared to a lot of shooters in the UK.
        The surrounding countryside is stuffed with game.Pheasant,Partridge,pigeons,Rabbits and Hares plus rats.
        I have run over more in my car than I have ever shot though.
        A mixture of low rolling hills with woods and flat agricultural fields with hedgerows around here.
        Getting permission to shoot on this land is another matter though and there is the rub.
        Luckily a mate of mine is in with a local farmer who has vermin problems so I hope to give my new rifle a work out very soon.
        Although not as well stocked as my old gun shop in London the two nearest me are good,with nice blokes who run them.
        Air guns are very popular here.Most folk I know own or have owned an air gun of one description or another at some point.
        Like you say,could be because of our laws.
        The prospect of well armed drunken Brits obviously doesn’t appeal to our politicians :)
        DaveUK

        • Matt61 Says:

          DaveUK, I remember another of my favorite British expressions. I think this was from the most recent Mission Impossible film where a British guy is talking to Tom Cruise on the phone and says, “When this goes t–s up, as of course it will…” :-)

          Matt61

        • Brian in Idaho Says:

          “The prospect of well armed drunken Brits obviously doesn’t appeal to our politicians”…

          You could say the same for our guy, Chairman Obama. Thanks god our constitution is still in place, thanks in no small part to well armed drunken Yanks!

        • Slinging Lead Says:

          Dave

          We yanks definitely drew the long straw when it comes to you joining the blog. Not only are you incessantly hilarious, but your experiences as a frustrated shooter echo what many of us colonists feel, even though we live in airgun utopia. ( supposedly )

          Also, you play the accordion. Enough said.

  • Tunnel Engineer Says:

    All,

    getting ready to purchase a TX200 rifle, in .177. Any last thoughts, suggestions, recommendations? Is walnut a waste of money? that sort of thing… I am planning to use it for target practice, silhouette competition, and maybe FT (no FT competitions anywhere near home). It does not come with a scope, any recommendations on that? Thank you!

    T.E.

    • twotalon Says:

      Walnut may be a bit lighter than the usual beech stocks, and the grain tends to be nicer. Beech is pretty fine grained and very dense.

      twotalon

    • Brian in Idaho Says:

      Ditto to Twotalons’ comments and… if possible, try to get a hands-on look at the rifles before buying.

      A fine figured Walnut stock is a thing of beauty! Beech tends to be a little plain or monotone due to it’s finer and more dense grain.

      • Tunnel Engineer Says:

        Thank you! I did try one at a silhouette competition and was immediately sold. It was a beech stock. WOuldn;t the heavier beech stock be better for accuracy? or is it not of practical consequence?

        Any other comments? scope type? or anything else?

        T.E.

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      T.E.

      First things first. Go to Home Depot and buy some O rings that will fit in the two recesses in the end of the cocking lever. This will protect the rubber bushing that is in the barrel shroud, and will better protect the black chrome-like finish. I keep my TX in a gunsock generously coated in silicone oil.

      The cocking stroke may need to be a little more brisk than you might think.

      As for pellets, mine likes Crosman Premier Lights. JSBs shoot OK, but the CPLs do much better. They are a tight fit in my barrel. It also shoots just fine resting right on a bag.

      My TX has a beech stock. It is so beautifully finished, it GLOWS. If I had to do it over again, I would get the walnut stock, but I would insist on being able to see or handle the gun first. I have seen some stock walnut stocks that had such intricate grain they would take your breath away. I have seen others that are plain Jane. A walnut version will be worth more and sell faster on the used market.

      I have a Leapers 4-16X50AO on mine, with high accushot mounts. This is a fine scope, but you need to snug down W/E adjustments with an allen wrench. I recently acquired a Centerpoint (made by Leapers) 4-16X40AO which I like a little better. You use the allen wrench to reset the zero, but you can lock down W/E adjustments with a knurled ring at the base. Nice thin reticule. Other Centerpoints probably have the same feature, I don’t know. For FT you would probably want more magnification.

      Lastly, do a bunch of pull ups. This is a heavy beast, but worth every bead of sweat.

      I have gone a little hog-wild with my little airgun addiction, and purchased many fine rifles. My TX remains my most beautiful, and most accurate rifle to date. The shot cycle is just like a tuned gun, and the trigger is the best I have used, hands down. You have chosen wisely.

      Enjoy.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      TE,

      You are getting some fine advice. You will love your TX 200. You already know how well it shoots, imagine when you own one and get to know it well!

      As for the scope, I like the recommendations you have gotten, but I’ll add a Hawke 4-16X50 to the mix. I find their optics a bit sharper than Leapers/Centerpoint.

      http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Hawke_Sport_Optics_MAP_Pro_4_16x50AO_Rifle_Scope_MAP_6_Reticle_1_4_MOA_1_Tube/3070

      B.B.

    • Matt61 Says:

      I would say that congratulations are in order. Make sure to give us a report.

      Matt61

      • Tunnel Engineer Says:

        Done! ordered TX200 in Walnut plus scope, rings, and case! Thanks to everyone who helped today! I will certainly update on my experience once I receive it

        T.E.

        • kevin Says:

          TE,

          Good for you! I’ve never owned a TX 200 but have shot several. A true classic. The triggers can be adjusted very nice without invasive surgery. I like that. You ordered in walnut, with scope, rings and case? What scope?

          What’s happening here? Everyone is getting nice guns but me. Guess I’ll go eat worms.

          kevin

  • Impeccable Hat Man Says:

    Do different stock materials affect the way a gun shoots? Do synthetic stocked guns shoot differently from beech stocked guns shoot differently from walnut stocked guns?

    • twotalon Says:

      This could be a blog all by itself.

      Different weight stocks will change balance, and of course weight. Vibration patterns through the different stocks will be different as well.
      So it would probably make a difference. The synthetic would not change with moisture changes, but the others might if not well sealed. I doubt if there is a hard and fast rule between different stocks since every gun will vibrate differently in the first place.

      twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Yes, and to add to what twotalon has said, I remember a field target match that was shot in the tail end of a hurricane in Maryland. All the wood-stocked guns swelled up from the rain and two stocks cracked! The synthetic stocks wouldn’t have been affected that way.

      B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    This is an invaluable series for parents that want to teach their kids responsibility and discipline with the aid of shooting.

    My daughter was very young when she got her first nerf gun. Then airsoft. Now pellet. Skipped bb guns. That’s a long story from my youth.

    My two cents. My daughter was also 7 when she started shooting pellet guns. I found that it was important to have the sights closely adjusted to where they should be. I wanted her to learn how to adjust sights but they were so far off that her short attention span wouldn’t tolerate more than a few adjustments of the sights since what she really wanted to do was shoot. At the beginning of her second shooting session with a pellet gun I wanted it to be more fun and provide instant feedback. Since the sights were closely adjusted it allowed be to put several balloons filled with water on the range. They were close enough that she hit both in two shots. She never shot a gun before that could break a balloon! With that excitement fresh it was easier for me to get her interested in accuracy as the next step. The shoot-n-c targets that B.B. provided a link to on the PA site are a must for young shooters starting out in my opinion. Again, instant feedback. I found that keeping the shooting sessions short and ending on a high note made her look forward to the next time.

    kevin

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      I will add to Kevin’s excellent suggestion, to say that REACTIVE targets are the most fun for any new (or old) shooter. This is why plinking is so popular (or hunting for that matter.) I love shooting groups in endless target sheets, but nothing beats filling a beer can half full with water, and aiming for the bottom with a high powered air rifle! BOOM! 4 to 5 feet in the air is very satisfying. Then you have spinners, which are cool, but you have to buy them. Bottle caps, also very good. I plan to try NECCO wafers and cheap lollipops for myself, but haven’t yet. Another good target? Muscadines or Scuppernongs, which are basically large grapes, and very biodegradable.

      When you hit a target, it is very gratifying to see it explode.

      • twotalon Says:

        A bag of cheap golf tees is also good for target stands for the small round stuff.Provided you cut your grass short enough or have some bare ground.

        twotalon

        • kevin Says:

          PLASTIC golf balls thrown out on the lawn are my daughters favorites. We each try to shoot them at the same time with different pellet guns. I love her giggle when she jumps the ball with her shot just as I’m getting ready to pull the trigger.

          kevin

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        Leigh Wilcox of Airgun Express said it best. “To be fun an airgun target has to bleed, break or fall.”

        B.B.

        • Flobert Says:

          Biodegradable targets that do interesting stuff when hit are as close as your nearest market …

          Necco Wafers
          Saltines
          Animal Crackers
          Cheetos (orange carnage!)

          Any sort of cracker or food item that’s brittle

          • J-F Says:

            Don’t forget paintballs! Biodegradable, exploding on impact and usually very colorful and easy to see.

            J-F

            • Flobert Says:

              Some 14-year old kids told me also, paintballs can be shot to burstable speed with a wrist rocket. Good to know when you’re not old enough to buy paintball stuff. Or like me, you’re too cheap to buy it, but might have a wrist rocket around the place.

      • Matt61 Says:

        I’m working my way up to my first spinner.

        Matt61

  • Steve Says:

    Hello all,

    I’m new to this blog. I wanted to introduce myself and ask the group a couple of questions. I have enjoyed the shooting sports for about 50+ years now; my grandfather started me out on a single shot Remington .22 when i was about 5 years old :-) . Of course I’ve had my share of cheap air guns, but i don’t currently have one. As i am looking over my options, i keep coming back to the Remington NPSS. I really like the Benjamen Marauder, but i’m not quite ready to incur that much expense. I’ll use the rifle for target practice both indoor and outdoors, as well as shooting squirrels in my back yard. Since I live in suburbia, i wanted something quiet enough not to draw attention from the neighbors. I also want something which i can keep my skills current w/o so many trips to the shooting range.

    Ok, on to my questions… I’ve read all of the reviews i can find on the web about the NPSS, and i have yet to really find anything negative about the gun. I’m wondering if those of you with more experience w/ air rifles think that this would be a good platform for what i hope to use it for, or if there is something else which i have overlooked. Also, I’ve read BB’s post somewhere about adjusting the trigger, and some others who have done so have all said that after shooting a few hundred rounds that it needs to be re-adjusted because the material the trigger is made of is too soft to hold the adjustment. Apparently the solution to this is to install an after market trigger; is this something i should even be concerned with on this gun ?? Also, for those who have the NPSS, is there a general consensus about the best pellet to use for hunting ?? target ?? or should i just expect to have to experiment to find the right one for this gun. I also was wondering about the longevity of the rifle; I know that it hasn’t been on the market for long enough, but what are the expectations.

    This seems like a very knowledgeable group of air gun enthusiasts, so i very much appreciate your input to my upcoming leap back into air gunning.

    Thanks,

    –Steve

    • twotalon Says:

      It’s probably not the trigger that wears, but the sear. A replacement trigger will not do anything about sear wear. You only get a trigger. Not a hardened sear.
      Periodic adjustments would possibly be necessary because any sear will wear after time due to extreme pressure at contact points. First they get smoother as the rough spots wear off. After thousands or possibly million shots, they can wear out enough to become dangerous. They could be reshaped to work again, but unless heat treated they would not last too many thousands of shots more.

      twotalon

    • Fred PRoNJ Says:

      Steve,

      welcome to the Blog and the great world of air rifles. I don’t have any experience with the NPSS so will let others weigh in. Regarding pellets – the most accurate are always the domed pellets. The hollow points, pointed pellets and plastic insert pellets just don’t measure up to domes for accuracy and bring nothing to the table as far as hunting. When you get your rifle, you’ll have to experiment to see which pellet it likes the best. Go with the Crosman Premiers, JSB Exacts and RWS super domes. There are others but you should be happy with one of these three. Forget about buying at the big box stores, they just don’t stock the quality pellets but the real low end which, is not a bad thing if you just want to practice or plink a lot and aren’t too concerned with accuracy.

      Good Luck – visit often.

      Fred PRoNJ

    • Matt61 Says:

      Welcome. Not too familiar with this rifle myself but I’m sure that others are. But I’m a bit surprised to realize that I do not know the answers to the questions of whether the gas spring is quieter than a mechanical spring and whether it also requires the artillery hold. These would be good questions to clear up before purchase as well as to satisfy my curiosity. I’m guessing that the answers are no and yes.

      Matt61

      • twotalon Says:

        A gas spring never buzzes. Vibration from the spring that will resonate in the stock and make it louder does not exist with a gas ‘spring’. There will still be some stock vibration from the firing cycle.
        The most of the noise that is heard from a distance will be the muzzle blast, unless the gun has some really bad vibration patterns. I have one springer that sounds like I wacked a sheet of plywood with a hammer every time I shoot it. The muzzle blast is negligible compared to this.

        It will also depend on how high the power level of the gun is. The more power, the more noise (from the muzzle)..

        twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Steve,

      Welcome to the blog. I haven’t tested the Remington NPSS yet, just the Crosman NPSS. It (the Crosman) was American-made and of pretty high quality. I saw a slip when the Chinese took over manufacture of the Benjamin Trails, which replaced the Crosman NPSS. I don’t know where the Remington rifle is made, but if it’s Chinese, then it’s probably in the same category as the others.

      It isn’t that it is a bad air rifle so much as it’s not as nice as it could be. The aftermarket trigger does remarkable things, I have heard. I have tested them on Gamo rifles but never on Crosman rifles.

      I am due to start testing the latest Crosman Nitro Piston rifle, which is called the Crosman Titan. I chose that one because of the lower power it offers and the fact that I have already tested a special Benjamin Nitro Piston of low power and found it to be a wonderful airguns.

      The gas spring guns we are talking about are quieter than steel spring guns. The gas spring unit is quieter and the barrel is shrouded to cut down on the discharge noise.

      I would have steered you towards a different rifle if you had not already narrowed the field, because gas piston guns are not the friendliest guns to start with. They are all pretty hard to cock, and will give you a distorted view of what is possible.

      My pick for you would have been an RWS Diana 34P.

      http://www.pyramydair.com/p/rws-34-panther-air-rifle.shtml

      B.B.

      • twotalon Says:

        B.B.
        I think you will like the Titan if you get one that is not trashed like mine was. Be ready to hate the trigger, and figure on a different set of rings and a different scope.
        Nice solid ‘thok’. nearly all noise is from the gun, not the muzzle. Much quieter than my 48, which makes more muzzle noise.
        The Titan is also easier to cock than my 97K, but not as easy as the 48.

        twotalon

      • Steve Says:

        Thanks for the response BB; i called Crosman’s customer support and they told me that the Remington NPSS was indeed made here in the USA.

        I am curious as to why you would have steered me toward the RWS Diana 34P ?? Would you care to expound on why that may be a better choice for me ??

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Steve,

          I recommended the 34P because I know that it is a SAFE recommendation. One I don’t think you will criticize in the future.

          However, if Crosman says the Remington NPSS is made in the USA, it might be a fine gun to try.

          Kevin certainly gave you some good advice about it. And the A Team are a father/son team that I respect a lot. So, if they like something, it’s probably pretty good.

          I wasn’t aware that the Remington’s cocking effort was as low as 26 lbs. That is fantastic, and it’s certainly lower than that of the 34P.

          I’d say you’ve done your homework. Go with your choice.

          B.B.

      • Flobert Says:

        BB it took me a while to remember what the “nitro piston” probably is, it’s an opposing piston inside to counteract the air-driving piston, to make the recoil less vicious, right?

    • Brian in Idaho Says:

      Welcome Steve

      You are getting some great advice from the regulars on here. I dont own an NPSS but do have a Gamo .22 with a gas-ram or nitro piston. The rifle still requires an artillery type hold and finding the sweet spot to apply it takes a little experimentation (the Gamo is about 3 inches in front of the triggergaurd). This is not so difficult to do, just find a hold that applies the least restraint on the gunstock while still controlling the weapon. Basically, you want the rifle to recoil naturally and in as straight a line or plane as possible.

      The gas rams or pistons reduce vibration, twanging noises and other metallic spring effects. They are however, still a “spring” of sorts, so the way you hold the rifle still affects accuracy.

    • kevin Says:

      Steve,

      Welcome! You have the makings of an addicted airgunner. You’re asking all the right questions.

      I’m curious as to why you narrowed your search down to the Remington NPSS? Knowing your criteria (beyond a hunting and plinking gun) might help.

      There are a lot of first hand reviews on this gun. Most reviews are by people that just bought their first airgun and it was a Remington NPSS. I don’t pay much attention to these reviews. The airgunners that have owned a dozen or more airguns and have written reviews I read with interest.

      What I’ve read is that everyone thinks the stock trigger is horrible (4+ lb pull) and the firing cycle is wonderful. You don’t need to replace the trigger (although that’s an option) since the A Team has a great tutorial on modifying the factory trigger that works well. Not hard.

      Common problems that are a a bit harder to address are:

      1. Barrel crowns have burrs. Solution: Take shroud off, re-crown.
      2. Polish lead-in because pellets are getting chewed up as they go into the barrel.
      3. Barrel lock up is loose on factory guns. While you have the barrel off, replace the pivot shims with bronze ones. This will take care of the pellet windage drifts many report about while shooting the Remington NPSS.
      4. Open the action, remove all the silicone grease and replace with moly

      There have also been a few reports (2-3) of the piston scoring the chamber just above the gas ram. One person took the gun apart and took pictures of the scored chamber and a sliced piston seal. The others sent their guns back for replacement. Don’t think this is common or a very big deal.

      kevin

      • twotalon Says:

        I think you are right about first time buyers. They are easy to impress until they get to try something that is really good. THEN they change their standards.

        Once in a while you can get lucky and get a first gun that is pretty good, but I doubt if it happens very often.
        I hate to think of how many guns I have had over the years that were …. uh….not so good. Price alone does not guarantee a gun that will not need a little work either.

        twotalon

      • Steve Says:

        Thanks Kevin for the thoughtful response. When i first started doing my research on the web, i read a bunch of different positive reviews about the rifle; it looked like it would satisfy my needs, and it was in my price range. Honestly, i don’t remember how i settled in on it above the many other choices.

        As i said above, i’ll probably use the rifle for target practice, and plinking, and pest control (squirrels). I liked the way the NPSS gun looked, and i liked the fact that it comes with a scope, and the general consensus i got from my research was that this gun was a good bargain. I also got a feeling that Crosman was a quality company, and i thought the Remington NPSS was made in the USA.

        I’m not set in stone on this rifle, i’m trying to make an informed decision.

        I read BB’s post on the Crosman NPSS and really liked what he had to say about it (i did not differentiate the Crosman NPSS from the Remington NPSS as perhaps i should have), and from what i have been able to gather in my couple of weeks of research, many people admire the advice he gives.

        I watched Paul Capello’s video review, and was impressed w/ how quiet the gun was, and with the cocking effort (he measured it at 26 lbs). He seemed to really like the gun; that is when i really started looking at it more in depth. I am really just getting started here and don’t want to make a mistake; the array of what is possible in the air gun realm is quit extensive, and somewhat intimidating to the newcomer. I want something which i can shoot indoors and outdoors, and expect 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups at 25 yards. As for BB’s response above, i called Crosman and asked them directly if the Remington NPSS is made in the USA (something i would consider a plus), and they assured me that it is. With all that being said, i’m wondering if you have something else in mind which would may be a better choice ??

        Thanks,

        –Steve

        • kevin Says:

          Steve,

          Made in the USA means a lot to me. There’s been a bunch of talk about what made in the USA means when it pertains to the Remington NPSS. Not sure if it’s speculation or fact but many claim parts are made in china and the gun is assembled in the USA. Many dispute this since they claim you’re not allowed to market or imprint (the Remington NPSS is marketed and actually imprinted on the gun “Made in the USA”) if the entire item isn’t manufactured AND assembled in the USA. I can’t speak to this.

          What I have read about the Remington NPSS cooled me off on the purchase of one. Don’t let my actions or research top yours.

          Since you asked I’ll give you two pieces of advice.

          1-Don’t be afraid to make a “mistake” in buying an airgun. I don’t think of it as a mistake but more of a learning experience. If I don’t like the gun I sell it and move on. In some cases I’ve given guns away and created shooting buddies. Good investment. The “perfect” airgun hasn’t been made no matter what reviews you read. Until you actually buy it and shoot it you can’t rely on others opinions to be correct for you. If you don’t like it, sell it. There are several very active used airgun classified sites on the internet that are very active. One thing I’ve learned is that there are some airguns that have a well deserved reputation for being quality built and accurate. These guns hold their value very well on the used gun classified sites. Others don’t hold their value because of numerous problems. What buyer’s of used airguns are willing to pay is a good indicator to me, along with relevant reviews by relevant airgunners, of whether a model is worthy of its “new in the box, hot off the shelf price”.

          2-I really suggest you research the RWS Diana 34p. Yes, it’s a spring gun. But it can be tuned smooth or you can buy the new vortek kit, install it yourself and have a shooter that will be smooth like the gas spring in the Remington NPSS. The RWS Diana 34p is not made in America. It’s made in Germany but I don’t have any problem with that. When you see the quality vs. the price point you won’t either.

          kevin

          • Slinging Lead Says:

            Steve

            I echo everyone when I say welcome to the blog. We love new voices here.

            I will go out on a limb and say that you like the Marauder, and you should put away your reservations and buy one. It will cost you more than $200. It will also do everything you are talking about and more. It is smooth, accurate, powerful, and QUIET. It can be made even quieter with a DIY mod requiring nothing more than a short length of plastic tubing.

            The cash layout will seem extreme at first. But you will not regret this purchase. You have your choice of .177, .22, or .25. Did I mention made in America? This is a bad ass repeater you will not regret buying.

            Oh yeah, almost no recoil. You can put a bipod on the included swivel studs.

          • Edith Gaylord Says:

            Kevin,

            Pyramyd Air used to indicate the country of origin for guns but I asked them to remove that info because of a variety of scenarios: (1) we don’t know what country something is made in, (2) the supplier doesn’t know the country of origin, (3) the supplier tells us what we want to hear or (4) the country of origin changes and we’re not notified.

            Since the federal gov’t dictates the standards for “made in the USA” and “built in the USA,” I went to the source for the definitions. The Federal Trade Commission’s PDF (clicking this link will download the PDF to your computer) says this:

            What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?
            For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be “all or virtually all” made in the U.S. The term “United States,” as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

            What does “all or virtually all” mean?
            “All or virtually all” means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.

            Edith

            • kevin Says:

              Mrs. Gaylord,

              You’re special. I certainly could have done that research but was lazy or feared the answer.

              What a disappointing eye opener. Seems that MADE IN THE USA can be diluted for marketing purposes based on the definitions that you provided links to. Doublespeak. Made in the USA means entirely Made in the USA to this country bumpkin.

              With regards to the Remington NPSS there is also speculation that I’ve read that allege parts are mass produced in the USA but assembled abroad. I still don’t know what to believe. Unfortunately this may just be a mere indication of the tip of the iceberg when it comes to us mere mortals trying to determine where our products are primarily produced.

              Unfortunately, not many Americans care anymore what the real cost is to America of these cheap products we consume.

              kevin

              • rikib Says:

                Unfortunately you never really know what you get now. I drive a Jeep Wrangler, my wife drives a Chevy and I shoot a Crosman. Who knows how much of anything is built here now! We are told to believe that foreign branded cars and every appliance you can think of, are now built here in the USA. Maybe, but where do the profits ultimately go, other than lining the pockets of business men (supposedly American) and government officials (untraceable accounts).
                It is sad to say, but I don’t think there is a chance in @#$% that an honest law abiding non-corrupt citizen could ever be elected to a position of power in the world that we live in today.

                rikib

  • Matt61 Says:

    One bit of advice for our single mom is not to assign her boys to read Yur’yev’s shooting book. One exception is his observation that ice skaters make for great shots because of their highly developed sense of balance. The boys and anyone else interested should break out their ice skates or practice any kind of balancing activity. Otherwise, the book would be too much of a good thing for them. I’ve just finished reading an extensive discussion about anatomy and the nervous system that would not look out of place in medical school. I’m reminded of some characterizations of Soviet spies and attaches during the Cold War who were described as “extraordinarily bright” and “vacuum cleaners for information.” However, I suspect that there is a flaw in the assumptions here. There is a very positivist, scientific view of the body as a machine that can be understood. For example, there is an attempt to identify particular muscles like the deltoid with certain actions. Undoubtedly, this is correct as far as it goes, but my concern is that the reality of how the body works is a heck of a lot more complicated than we can understand now or possibly ever. Some experience in martial arts and kettlebell lifting make this clear. There is a principle in both whereby the body is made rigid and used as a conduit for the action of muscles that are far away from the point of action. For instance, Vladimir the Russian commando I have mentioned has demonstrated a technique of having his wrist seized then stamping down with his same-side heel and sending the attacker flying.

    We see the same complexity in swimming. Mark Spitz’s coach, James Counsilman, inaugurated the era of scientific swimming through careful study of Spitz’s technique. The new theory had to do with moving the hand in a curved path through the water to approximate the lifting action of an airplane wing. Decades and thousands of swimmers later this turns out not to be just wrong but dead wrong with no basis whatsoever. This was displaced by an entirely different model that had to do with streamlining the body to approximate wave-cutting designs for boats. Now Michael Phelps and others are making it look like this is very inadequate too and that certain features of Janet Evans’s style from the 1980s which were laughed at in their time may be the key. Typically, there will be some experimental breakthrough by a swimmer, and science will rush to catch up with some after the fact and partial explanation.

    As usual Star Trek says it best. In one episode, disembodied aliens are allowed to inhabit the bodies of the Star Trek crew in order to manufacture robot bodies that they can live in. Observing their work, Scotty, the engineer says, “I dinna see how something that looks like a little drop of jelly will do anything. You’ll need something that acts like a pulley and a lever.” To this, Hannock the villain, by way of Spock’s body says, “This drop of jelly will have approximately 10X the force and have much more endurance than your human muscles, that is if you stop disturbing us.”

    More trenchantly, the female alien inhabiting a guest crew member comes up to her husband (in Kirk’s body) and says, “Can robot lips do this?! Mmmmmmph”, smooching him. Kirk’s body doesn’t seem to mind. Anyway, one must not underestimate the organic and plastic nature of the body….

    Matt61

    • Flobert Says:

      Are you talking about the old Yur’Yev book that was originally from the 70s? Or is there a newer version out? Man I wish I still had my copy, what a neat weird old book.

      • Matt61 Says:

        The old Yur’yev book. It may be weird, but it reads very well for its dry material and has tons of interesting information. I’m reading my copy from interlibrary loan. Even on Amazon the book costs a ton.

        Matt61

        • Flobert Says:

          Oh, I’m not saying I didn’t get it as soon as I could, and read the thing obsessively. Once upon a time I got ahold of every shooting book I could and read them all intently.

    • kevin Says:

      Matt61,

      No review on the S200. Ended up buying a custom carbon fiber .22 cal carbine in stainless for a friend that can’t use my R9 for pest control anymore since his shoulder got so bad. The carbine is dual fuel and has a power adjuster. My friend doesn’t have a tank and can’t use a pump so he’s going to run it on CO2. Good solution for his situation. If (when?) he gets his pest problem under control I’ll probably get the gun back. I’ll run it on air and will probably keep it. Neat little gun.

      Now I need to sell the R9 in .20 caliber that was tuned by Maccari.

      kevin

  • CJr Says:

    I took delivery of my IZH-46 today. I’m very pleased with the gun but already I’m confused. Following the directions in the owner’s manual does not work (English version, included separate from the box). Here’s how I read them:

    1. Open the cocking lever out straight until the bolt pops up 90 degrees.
    Here’s the start of the confusion – the bolt doesn’t pop up 90 degrees, only about 45.
    2. Close the cocking lever, resistance should be felt near the end of the effort.
    Here’s the second part of the confusion – the gun just hisses and there is no resistance.
    3. Insert pellet, close the bolt and fire the gun – there is no air in the gun so there is no firing.

    Now, if I don’t cock the gun first, instead I open the bolt manually 90 degrees first, insert the pellet, then cock the gun I get resistance and a charged gun. Then I close the bolt and it will fire.

    So, what is the proper firing sequence? What am I misinterpreting? Am I supposed to open the bolt 90 degrees at the start of the cocking/loading/firing sequence?

    -CJr

    • Frank B Says:

      CJr,when you open the charging handle,use a little vigor near all the way open….mine needed that last part to not be done delicately at all!I hope this helps…mine was very nice.Still think the grip will be easy to make lefty?

      • CJr Says:

        Frank,
        I think that grip is doable. I’m not a wood carver or carpenter but I think I can find one locally if I can’t do it myself. The trick will be getting them to agree to such a small job. If the grips were as big a table they’d probably be all for it.

    • kevin Says:

      CJr,

      Wow you’re putting together quite the collection. An IZH-46. Nice trigger?

      kevin

      • CJr Says:

        Kevin,
        Yes, really nice trigger! Best trigger I gotten so far. Can’t see how it could be topped. Such a light touch out of the box. I started playing with the dry fire option and at first I didn’t think I was doing anything. Then, I started noticing a little tick. Wow! that amazed me.
        -CJr

        • Flobert Says:

          You know on those grips, I remember making a grip out of Bondo for a Daisy 777 once, you could try something clever like wrap the parts you don’t want Bondo on in tinfoil then goop on and carve away as needed. However, that only works for a full-tang frame, seems to me a lot of elite target pistols are not made like that.

          • CJr Says:

            Flobert,
            The IZH-46 does not have a full tang, but maybe 3/4 so your technique might work. I’ve been toying with a couple other ideas. One, just bolt on two blocks of wood and Dremel stuff away. The other, making a reverse mold, then fill it with epoxy for a rough start. I need to reshape the grips anyway to fit my hand better.
            -CJr

            • CJr Says:

              Oops, I may have misinterpreted “full tang”. The tang on the IZH-46 is only about a 1/2 to 3/4 inch wide and extends about 3/4 of the way into the wood grip. So, maybe there isn’t enough for the bondo to hang onto.
              -CJr

  • derrick Says:

    CJr,
    Don’t open the loading cover manually. You’re not opening the cocking lever quite far enough. Pull the cocking lever down until you feel it just stop–then pull down a bit harder and the loading port will open 100% of the way.

    T.E.
    I can read between the lines. You want the walnut stock, don’t you? So get the walnut stock. If it’s what you want and you don’t get it, you’ll kick yourself every time you get it out and think “why didn’t I spend the little bit extra ?” They’re beautiful and it’s only money. You’ll make more.

    You should see my walnut stocked Pro Sport. I hit the walnut stock lottery. The wood wouldn’t be out of place on a $5,000+ rifle.

    Derrick

    • Frank B Says:

      Derric…..I wanna see,I wanna see!

    • CJr Says:

      derrick,
      Thanks, that’s the advice I was looking for. I gave it that second effort and it worked. The manual warned about not over extending the cocking handle or damage would result so I was being overly cautious. I gotter working now and man what a touchy trigger! I’ve never used a trigger this light and crisp. Now, I think it’s going to spoil me.

      I tried shooting it left handed but the grip edges are too sharp that way so I’ve been shooting right handed. I’m having a hard time making my right eye dominant automatically. I catch myself looking through the left one by habit.

      Thanks again for straightening me out on the cocking lever (no pun intended).

      -CJr

      • Alan in MI Says:

        Chuck,

        Since it is a pistol, why not aim off the left eye – that is what own of my sons (who is a righty and is left eye dominant) does. If you insist on changing, you might want to try what we did for him for open sights on a rifle: take a pair of safety glasses and “polish” the left eye piece with 600 grit sandpaper. Then you can shoot comfortably with the left eye open and train the right eye. He can actually do pretty well now . . . .

        If it doesn’t work, it only cost you a pair of safety glasses.

        Alan in MI

        • CJr Says:

          Alan,
          I did start shooting right handed, aiming with the left eye but felt I was violating some code of pistol ship. I expected the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco & Pistol Aiming to come banging down my door at any minute. I do shoot much better left handed, though, in spite of the shape of the grip. As expected, I’m so much more steady and I guess I really don’t want to put much effort into learning right handed. I will concentrate on getting proper grips. The grip feels so comfortable in my right hand even though it’s a little too big. I have small hands.

          I am having problems with the sights, unfortunately. It is very difficult for me to get a non-blurry image of the front sight with or without existing corrective lenses. I can clear it up for a second or two by blinking but that’s about it. The rear sight will not clear up at all. I’m still developing a sight picture. I need longer arms :-) I really do like this pistol in spite of my difficulties which are no fault of the gun. And, oh, I do love that trigger!

          I’m getting 481 fps low, 490fps high, around 485fps avg. with 8.62 extreme spread and 3 standard deviation over 10 shots. Not too shabby, eh? My best 6 shot group left handed was 2″ at 10m, standing, off-hand. It was six shots because I didn’t use the crony and I can’t count and shoot at the same time. I’m shooting at a Gamo 5 1/2″” target on a pellet trap and out of 50 shots only missed the whole target once and that was right handed after adjusting the sights for left handed shooting.

          This gun it definitely a keeper and a challenge but I gotta take the sharp edges off the grip for lefty work!!
          -CJr

    • kevin Says:

      Derrick,

      Congratulations on the new pro sport. I’m a sucker for nice wood. Hope you post some pictures. Sounds like you got very lucky. Everyone is acquiring some great guns.

      kevin

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Derrick

      Do tell. Perhaps a blog on AAB is in order.
      I see you guys have surpassed the 400 post milestone.
      Congrats, to you and Nick. And thanks for the resource.

      • derrick Says:

        It’s not a recent purchase, I got the Pro Sport through Pyramyd to replace my stolen TX200. I’ve had it for about 2 years now.

      • derrick Says:

        Thanks SL, I think we’re coming up on 450 posts in about a month. I can’t believe it, either. Nick really put up a great asset for the airgun community. He’s truly a super good guy.

  • pete zimmerman Says:

    About 10 days ago I started on a new air gun adventure. After much thought, and after writing on the C-20, I decided it was finally time to upgrade to a modern pistol. And so I have bought a Steyr LP-10 (mechanical trigger version). I can only say that the more I shoot with it, the more I like it. The technical improvements made during the last 20 years are really very significant.

    BB has asked me to do a guest blog, and as time permits and as I get to know the gun better, I certainly will. The hold-up, of course, will be getting the pictures done.

    • kevin Says:

      pete zimmerman,

      Congratulations on the Steyr LP-10! What a wonderful piece. I’ve never owned one or held one so I’m very interested in your guest blog. Thanks so much.

      kevin

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Pete,

      And what a way to begin that guest blog–by writing the C20 Epilog! It’s a perfect transition into the new gun, don’t you think?

      B.B.

      • pete zimmerman Says:

        The rough draft has a short eulogy to the C-20 and then goes into details on the new pistol. Have to say the LP-10 is simply wonderful. I did about 20 rounds tonight, and the most frequently hit ring was the 10, with the 9 next. I have never been able to do that before!

        On the other hand, if there’s an off night, it is my fault, not the gun’s. Nothing to blame that high right flyer on except sheer loss of focus…

        I’ll save the rest for later.

        CJr: Lots of fun with the Izzy. It is one hell of a fine gun, with a beautiful trigger.

        Admitting to ignorance: What is a CBcap or CB cap?

        • kevin Says:

          pete zimmerman,

          You’re just teasing us about the Steyr Lp-10. Now I really want to hear more. That’s quite an improvement in accuracy for an accomplished shooter like you are. Glad to hear you already have a draft of the guest blog.

          Regarding CB’s. CB is short for Conical Ball Cap (no pun intended). It’s a variety of .22 caliber rimfire ammunition which has a very small propellant charge (usually no gunpowder, just the primer), resulting in a low muzzle velocity of between 350 and 700 ft/s. This is similar to the muzzle velocity produced by a low to mid-power .22 pellet gun hence the logical comparison threatened by B.B.

          The bullet from a .22 CB cartridge is significantly heavier than a typical airgun pellet and therefore carries more energy. Due to their low power, CB rounds can be trapped by most pellet/rimfire traps. In longer rifle barrels the CB has a very quiet, seemingly non-existent report due to the lack of residual pressure at the muzzle.

          The original .22 CB cartridge has the same case as the .22 BB, but there are now low-power .22 rounds sold as .22 CB Short and .22 CB Long which come in the more common .22 rimfire cartridge cases. The longer cases will allow the rounds to be fired in magazine fed firearms, in which the tiny CB Cap cases would jam. So while having the same length, the modern .22 CB Short and the .22 Short are two different cartridges.

          Although the CB carries more energy, primarily due to the projectile weight, when compared to similar velocity in high powered .22 airgun, using a lesser weight projectile, a CBs’ accuracy is useless at anything more than minimal distances.

          kevin

  • rikib Says:

    :) :) :)
    Don’t know how I came across this quote really. Just replace the word “bat”, with “air gun” and I found it funny!

    “I never blame myself when I’m not hitting. I just blame the bat and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn’t my fault that I’m not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?”
    Yogi Berra

    rikib :)

  • rikib Says:

    As it is the weekend and it is getting closer to elections, I thought I’d post this quote. Promise this is the last tonight. :)

    Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
    Mark Twain

    rikib :)

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Rikib

      Idiot like a fox! Show me a job with better benefits, and that allows a staff to write and read (if possible) all the bills that they propose or vote on. It is certainly curious that during the healthcare reform debate that these senators and house members didn’t talk much about THEIR healthplans. Cadillac plan my ass, they have Lear jet healthplans and we pay for them. Also we pay for them to fly on actual jets, but that is another story.

      They are not idiots, even if the things they do are idiotic. We are idiots if we don’t do our part to boot the current crop of “representatives.” Then we have to stay vigilant enough to watch the new crop and be ready to vote them out if they do not enact the will of the people. Complacency is the enemy. Our government is an out of control behemoth.

      • pete zimmerman Says:

        As a former member of Senator Biden’s staff I have to dispute the above claim. Senators and Congressmen, and their staffs, can only buy the same Federal Employees’ Health Benefits Plans that are available to any other Federal employee in Washington. Senators do have access to the office of the Physician of the Capitol, which the rest of us do not except in an emergency such as a heart attack on duty.

        But if the OPCapitol hasn’t gotten a lot better than it was during the anthrax attack, that ain’t much of a privilege.

        Actually, the new health care law restricts the Congress, Senate and Hill staffs to the lower end of the FEHBP program.

  • twotalon Says:

    Any special tricks for pulling a 97K apart? I am going to do a tear down to do a few things.
    Moly lube and polish the inlead.

    twotalon

    • CJr Says:

      Kevin,
      That rifle is totally awesome! If you know Joe T, I hope you caution him about storing that beauty long term in that foam case per all our past discussions on proper long term storage. Surely, the previous owner can give him some tips on how he stored it. As a matter of fact I wish he would give US some tips on how he stored it over the past.

      -CJr

      • kevin Says:

        CJr.

        I don’t know JoeT.

        If he posted here I would willingly offer advice since this place is a friendly community of airgunners. Based on what I’ve read, JoeT is a prince of a fellow but if I posted any unsolicited advice on that forum the other airgunners would pick my bones clean with acerbic comments/rebuttal. Many know it alls there with very little first hand experience. I refuse to debate with fools. Onlookers might confuse us.

        It’s happened many times before. I still visit since there’s a narrow contingent of quality, experienced airgunners but don’t comment very often anymore for that reason.

        kevin

    • pcp4me Says:

      Kevin,

      Really great rifle!

      Here is a link to a stock maker who explains grading of wood:
      http://www.qualitygunstocks.com/wodupgradepricing.html. I will not give my opinion of what grade that wood is as it would be only my opinion and I would not want to offend anyone. You can read the post and make up your own mind.

      Suffice it to say that is a really nice piece of wood I would be proud to have on any gun I own!

      Soon as I get the money together I am going to have him make a stock for my Disco.

      • kevin Says:

        pcp4me,

        Thanks for the link. Never seen that one before. I don’t grade wood either since beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

        I can tell you this, wood like that on the JW 75 doesn’t come around very often.

        kevin

  • DaveUK Says:

    An 8 bass piano accordion and a HW99s.
    Life don’t get much better :)

    Matt61:
    Here is a few more.
    “It’s all gone….”
    Belly up
    Pear shaped
    Pete Tong(wrong)
    Or on an occasion at the Old Bailey court, when a case my dad was working on collapsed after the Detective Inspector in charge fainted to avoid cross examination.
    As he was carried out eyes closed, he muttered through the corner of his mouth to my dad.
    “It’s all gone bent” lol
    DaveUK

  • Flobert Says:

    Those dang possums crawled off and died somewhere, according to the land owner, probably his house.

    I think I’m going to just trap ‘em, the neighbor has the big Havahart, but I have a smaller one, a lot smaller actually, but I may trap some rats and small possums, and I also can use it for ideas for building larger traps.

    • twotalon Says:

      I got a cheap set a few years ago. There was a large trap and a smaller one. They were pretty cheap, but workable. No need for the big brand names or a lot of expense for possum catching.
      Both needed a little work to fine tune the trigger setups so they would trip with only a small bit of pressure. I don’t think they would hold a chuck or a big coon very long but a possum is no sweat.
      Bait with cat food. You may have to release a few cats at first, but cats wise up fast and unless the are really desperate or retarded you will not catch the same one twice.
      Then you can bag your possums with no problem.

      twotalon

      • Flobert Says:

        Havaharts are something we find occasionally at garage sales etc., we don’t buy ‘em new. If I want a bigger one real bad, I’ll go to animal control and tell ‘em I want a trap to trap feral cats, use one of theirs for a while then return it lol. Or build a trap. Or find one on Craigs List etc.

        Our big one will hold a big coon. But that sucker will roll the trap all over the place, it’s got to be a sight to see.

  • Flobert Says:

    OK so some casual plinkin’ around today …… shot a few shots at steel tuna cans with my Crosman 1377, with Crosman flat nose pellets, with 6 pumps it doesn’t even pierce a steel Bumble Bee tuna can.

    Got out the Gamo Delta, same pellets, it sure pierces the can all right.

    That 1377, 600fps? I dunno about that ……

    Now on the Delta, I wonder if I should look into doing a trigger job on it? I don’t need it to be much lighter, I like the idea of the 4-lb National Match trigger. But it could use being cleaner.

  • rikib Says:

    Well since nothing is being said maybe I can bore you some more.
    I replaced the standard barrel in my 2240 with a 14″ barrel yesterday. From my understanding I stood to gain near 100 +/- fps . I don’t know exactly what I gained, but I did gain a lot from what I could tell by penetration. Accuracy also improved. I do not shoot for groupings due to physical constraints, but I enjoy plinking. My favorite now is 16 oz. water bottles (filled) hanging in a tree. I love the satisfaction of seeing the water burst with a good hit. Before barrel swap I was mainly shooting at 1.75L bottles. Anyway just thought I would post something as no one else was. :)
    Oh, and those that have been reading my posts know that my wife & I are big time animal lovers. We have or had 5 dogs (1 my service dog) all rescues and 10 cats. My wife goes out this morning. Guess what? She brings home another dog! Where will it end! :)

    rikib

    • rikib Says:

      By the way it is a Pomeranian. So we have dog sizes from Great Dane to Pomeranian!

      rikib

      • rikib Says:

        Well, went to see what wife was doing (me watching football). Our house is strange setup, 3 levels, but maybe only 2-1/2 levels. Anyway, I go to see what she has been doing. Making a dog bed! I thought this was a temporary situation! :)
        I knew when I married her she loved animals as do I, but I thought I had talked her out of this last night as being a long term thing. More vet bills lying in the wait I expect! Sad, yes! Saving a pet from cruelty, I’ll do it again.

        rikib

  • Joe B in Marin Says:

    When I was teaching my children to shoot airguns safely, my friend’s 5 yr old was too young to shoot with the other kids. So one day when no other shooters were on the line I put him on my lap and let him shoot my Crosman 1322 at a pop can an appropriate distance away. The soda can’s thin aluminum sides kept the pellets from ricocheting back but we both had on eye protection. I did the pumping and he the shooting and he turned out, with a small amount of instruction, to be a very competent shot. He was one delighted young man, and frankly, so was I.

  • rikib Says:

    Is the blog down???

    • twotalon Says:

      No. We are all just wore out.
      twotalon

    • CJr Says:

      rikib,
      Read BB’s last comment. I guess it’s just you and me and a blogger named Matt/Joe/twotalon. :-)
      -CJr

      • rikib Says:

        CJr,
        Sure ain’t many of us out here today that’s for sure! :)

        rikib

        • CJr Says:

          I’ve been working on making left-handed grips for my new IZH-46M, yesterday and today. I have the rough cuts made out of pine. A friend may have a pistol grip carving set he’ll let me use but he said there’s a good chance he might have sold it at a yard sale. I sure hope not else I’ll have to find a place that sells carving tools. There used to be a place in town that had wood carving supplies but I didn’t need them then and they went out of business. Now, I need them and they are no more. I’m going to start with pine because it’s cheap and soft, just like I like my women :-)

          What did you ever settle on for snake control? Did you get the Judge?

          -CJr

          • rikib Says:

            I was seriously considering the Bond Arms Snake Slayer .410/45lc or same cal. Judge. The other day I went to the Marine Corps Base near where I live (I’m retired military). They re-modeled the main store and increased the firearms section. I can pick up a Mossberg 500 12ga Cruiser 18.5″ for a little under $250, the Judge for around $470. With the stricter handgun laws and the price difference I’m tending to lean toward the Mossberg. I like the weight and feel, have not read any bad reviews yet.

            rikib

            • CJr Says:

              rikib,
              I’d be very interested in hearing about your final choice. The Mossberg interests me because of the short barrel (well, and the price). However, I’m still not sure how to pull that out from under my pillow in the middle of the night, whereas the Judge… In your case, also, carrying would be an issue. Looks like we have two different applications for the same item.

              At this time of year, are you more or less likely to have a snake encounter?

              -CJr

              • rikib Says:

                CJr,
                I’m pretty sure my final choice (when money is available) will be the Mossberg. I have access to skeet range on Marine Corps Base, also have a friend with 500 acres nearby that he has setup for clay shooting. He hunts wild hog on his land, but I’m not into hunting.
                As far as pulling it out from under a pillow, it could be placed between mattress and box spring or simply on floor beside me. If you have followed my posts you know I have early warning system in the form of 5, no make that 6 dogs as of yesterday. We know everything that goes on outside our house. The slightest sound and they are all out the door (dog flap) barking like crazy. Believe it or not our neighbors actually appreciate it.
                Hopefully, snake season is coming to a slow down don’t know if it ever really ends here.

                rikib

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