Webley Alecto – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier


Webley Alecto

The Webley Alecto is a HUGE air pistol. If you think a Desert Eagle is large, then this one is just as large. It’s not as heavy as the Desert Eagle firearm, but at 2 lbs., 6 oz., it’s no lightweight. However, the weight seems less because of the size of the gun. The all-synthetic frame and topstrap spread out to cover more acreage than the weight implies.

And this is a multi-pump pneumatic. It works via an overlever pump, so I think you can forget about putting a dot sight or scope on it. You need the top of the topstrap to pump with. I have not yet recovered my strength, but I can say that this pistol is for adults, only, and those who can manage a heavy workload. It is a bear to pump the three strokes needed for maximum power. I will estimate that it takes at least 35 lbs. of effort, which is a lot for a close-coupled gun.


The topstrap lifts up and forward to pump the gun.

One pump is possible
You can treat this pistol as a single-stroke if you like. Simply pull up on the latches on both sides of the rear of the topstrap, and the topstrap lifts up easily. One pump is relatively easy and feels even easier than pumping the Beeman P3 or Beeman P17 single-strokes. Pump two is only slightly harder than the first pump, but pump three requires a lot of strength. The Alecto becomes the pistol equivalent of the old Webley Patriot rifle on the third pump stroke.

Maybe it’s not so big after all
Oh, the pistol is large, make no mistake about that. But the grip is sculpted for average to large hands, so it doesn’t necessarily hold like a big gun. And the adjustable palm shelf allows each shooter to adjust the grip to his own hand. That’s a target gun feature that I like a lot on an accurate gun.

But is the Alecto accurate?
Well, the manufacturer certainly thinks so, which is why they supply each pistol with a test target that also has a short chronograph ticket attached. So no whining about poor accuracy or weak power when the proof is delivered with the gun. If the test pistol really shoots as well as the test target demonstrates, it’s almost a 10-meter pistol.


Each gun comes with a factory target.

The chrono ticket shows an average velocity for this .177 pistol of 197 meters/second, which works out to just over 646 f.p.s. Unfortunately, no information is given about the pellet used to test the gun, so we’ll have to wait for my velocity test to get the real data. Plus, I’ll test the gun with one, two and three pump strokes for all pellets.

Sight options
In a move back to the 19th century, Webley gives the Alecto a front sight that can be flipped for a different sight picture. The lower sight blade is supposedly zeroed for 25 meters if the gun is zeroed at 10 meters with the higher blade. To swap blades, just push the sight blade forward and it rotates down, bringing the other blade up. Such innovation hasn’t been seen since the Beach sights of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I like things like this, because they give the shooter a choice of sights, and I’m all about choices.


The front sight flips for a long-range or close-range post.

Very adjustable
The rear sight is adjustable for both windage and elevation. Speaking about adjustability, the trigger blade can be adjusted left and right, forward and back, for the length of pull and for trigger return spring strength.

When the gun is pumped the first time, the safety bar flips back, which prevents the trigger from firing the gun. Push it forward out of the way and the trigger is free to fire the gun.

Nice presentation
The gun comes inside a cushioned hard case. It’s packed with the Torx adjustment tool for the trigger, a bore brush, the manual, test target and a small bottle of silicone oil for use in maintenance that is documented in the manual. It’s a pleasingly complete kit.


The Alecto comes in an attractive hard case with all the equipment you need to shoot.

First impression
I’m impressed. Yes, this is an expensive pellet pistol, but if you look at all it offers it really isn’t out of line. It’s more powerful than the Beeman P1 and potentially just as accurate, yet for less money. Whether it’s worth the money is an individual choice, but if you’re an air pistol shooter who likes power and accuracy, I’d put this one on your short list.

182 thoughts on “Webley Alecto – Part 1

  1. Wow 197 m/s for a air pistol ,i really want one of these ;) looks nice – with this one i dont even care is he from plastic or not !This one is like a Glock Plastic Fantastic


  2. Ok, I’ve been waiting for the blog on this Webley. So far, so good. I can’t wait to see accuracy results and 2 stroke power. Realistically, I’ll probably shoot on two strokes much more than either 1 or 3, so that’s my biggest curiosity. I can’t wait for Part 2 and beyond. Powerful and accurate, without PCP equipment. I’m in.


  3. Off topic, advice request. I have a need for some small pest control, think little guys like mice. The area is nice and small, so much so that I cannot get a rifle in there. Enter Pistol or very small carbine. Most pistols are single shot, which means one shot one kill. The ranges are reasonable for a humane pistol shot. I’d like to have more than one shot if possible, and I’d really like single action trigger for the job to help with accuracy. There are many blowback BB pistols that meet the need, but I really don’t want to be in an enclosed space with BB’s bouncing around. I’m thinking Pellet is the way to go, higher accuracy and less bounce.

    For Pellet repeaters with single action triggers on the follow up shots, there are only a few that I can find. The Desert Eagle, Berreta FX4 Storm, and the new Gamo PT-25 and PT-85 pistols. The Desert Eagle would work, but it;s a bit pricey and eats CO2 like an old Chevy eats Gas. It is well known to be accurate, so it’d work though. The Berreta and the Gamo PT-85 look similar in design. Anyone know if one is better than the other? How accurate is the Berreta? I know it’s popular, but I need accuracy. I have a Walther CP-99, and it’s accuracy is good for this task, but I only get one single action shot, with follow ups being less accurate due to a heavy double action.

    So, excluding the Desert Eagle only due to cost… Would the Beretta or Gamo models be good for the job? Mouse size shot up to 5 meters (I can do this with the Walther CP99 easily) with them? Other pistols better for the task that I haven’t considered? Any small rapid fire carbines worth looking at? Thanks for the tips!


    • Strongly recommend the $50 Crosman 1377 multi-pump sold at PA and Academy. Be sure to file the front blade plastic into a point for more accurate sight picture. Also use the peep sight blade on the back (it comes with two). I can hit 2″ at 20 yards all day long with that configuration resting on my left arm. At five yards you should be able to hit it’s head or neck. Be sure to test fire at the ranges you will use to compensate for the pellet still rising to meet the sight picture.

      For dark corners get a cheap LED flashlight plus some velcro cable organizers and you can mount it temporarily on to the side of the barrel.

      If I can take a blackbird at 8 yards with predator pellets then you can take a mouse at 5 with a domed pellet.


      • This is a fine idea, but only gives one shot. I have a one shot solution that works fine, looking for something with follow up shots. Good recommendation, but not quite what I’m looking for. Thanks.


        • Bristolview,

          Hmm… I know your dilema. The pellet co2 repeater ultra carbine does not exist. A $450 Marauder is about as close as I have seen and you’ll probably want to use a shoulder grip on it. Of course it’s a PCP, so there’s even more up front expense. You will probably have to modify a 1077, or go with a Talon SS or a 2240 with shoulder grip and give up the repeater.

          Or the third option and most likely the one I’d go with is the bb repeater and goggles. Worked for my friends and I when we were kids in the ’60′s! :)

          I am interested in what you end up with, or make. Do keep us posted.

          ka


    • Try the Crosman 1077, it will be ten times easier to hit a small target compared to using a pistol. It also offers a dozen follow up shots and good short range accuracy.


      • I was looking at this actually. Seems like a great buy for what it is. I haven’t shot one of these, but they catch my attention at times. Is this the same mechanism as the Night Stalker in a more traditional stock? The problem with this is space. I mentioned that rifles aren’t real good here, that’s because this is down a tunnel. Thus why I’m favoring a pistol. I can borrow a nightstalker from my neighbor, but I dislike it’s heavy pull trigger (double action only).


        • If you can shoot a pistol in the space you should be able to shoot this. Get a cheap laser site and you don’t even need to shoulder it. The trigger is a little heavy, but mine still managed ragged one hole groups out to fifteen yards with open sights.

          The value is really hard to beat. The mice would fear you.


    • Bristolview,

      Not trying to dissuade you from the airgun by any means, but the best tool I have found for getting rid of small varmints is a device called a “ratzapper.” It is a battery powered trap that kills quickly and humanely via electric shock. You get one each time you set it. I use both it and airguns to deal with my varmint problems – both tools have their appropriate use. Check them out at http://www.ratzapper.com – I went with the bigger one, and it even gets squirrels that occasionally find their way into my garage, usually in the winter.

      Alan in MI



      • Ha, I have two of these. They work great. For some reason, the typical house mouse loves the ratzapper and it chalks up the bodies. There is a larger problem in a drainage tunnel area. The little critters in there are not the typical house mouse, and are creepily clever. I don’t think they’re rats, but they are larger than the typical field mouse. They aren’t fooled by the ratzapper, and avoid traps and the sticky traps. They are super smart, and can navigate through a mine field of traps and sticky glue without leaving a trace. The ONLY way I’ve gotten any is by shooting them. Normally, I’d just let them be, but their numbers are too high. I want multiple shots to take out multiple before they scatter. My CP99 can drop one easily, and has.


    • Bristolview,

      I would recommend a Crosman 2240 with the new Discovery breech coming out from qbmags soon (www.qbmags.com). Probably around $100. I don’t know when it will be out, but that would give you a multi-shot 2240! You will probably have to mount a red dot/scope or laser on it to clear the magazine. They do have one currently available that you have to use your finger to index to the next pellet.

      AR




    • Milan — I recently got a .50 caliber 42 inch long, 15/16″ across the flats straight Green Mountain octagonal barrel for $130.00. It cost a little more, but the amount of steel makes it a better deal:). Are you going to have a dual caliber springer?



        • I don t even know how would our law- makers look at 50 cal air rifle ,it would be fun to see :) technically it is air gun but man 50 cal ….. mean ;)


          • Milan,
            It is actually for a flintlock I’m building, but I don’t see why you couldn’t build a nice air rifle for patched round balls with it also. I’m pretty sure your lawmakers would ban me for life:). There are a few people working on ML’ing air-powered long-rifles, and they are making some nice ones. I’ve actually been meaning to see if BB could get one and compare it to the current big-bore air rifles being built. There doesn’t seem to be much cross-germination between the two groups, although I think the availability of awesome barrels and use of patched round balls might give the builders with BP backgrounds an edge, even though they seem like the underdogs.


            • BG_Farmer,

              You didn’t know me long enough ago, I guess. I have owned muzzle loading big bore air rifles. Mine was made by Gary Barnes. As a ball shooter it was quite pleasant, but the ball was not patched, just loaded naked. So when Gary learned to make spool ammo, that was engraved and the power went up. My muzzleloader generated just over 500 foot-pounds. I sold it to Cecil Whiteside a few years ago.

              B.B.


              • BB,

                I was going by your past descriptions of the Barnes and DAQ guns. My impression was that Barnes was very talented artistically (though it wasn’t my style), but that the shooting part of the technology fell short, as you would expect, with unpatched round balls in an smooth bore or a rifled bore of the wrong twist rate. Dennis Quackenbush’s rifles seem — or at least seemed — to use better barrels (possibly Green Mountain), but I assumed that his were optimized for conicals. What I was getting at was that maybe someone coming at the problem from a BP background might well have better performance with round balls in terms of accuracy. PRB’s require not only the ball and patch to be properly sized, but also a correct rifling rate, and they seem to work better with rifling having deeper and wider grooves than would be used for conicals. I’ve found over the last year or so that their accuracy can be stunning when they work right.

                Also, it seems that in many practical cases PRB’s are competitive with conicals out of BP rifles, since they have better trajectories, comparable energy (both due to lighter weight thus higher velocity), and more or less the same accuracy at usable ranges. Finally, the cost of round balls is hard to beat. These characteristics might make them desirable in big bore airguns as well, but I haven’t seen any evidence that they are being used, except in cases where the builder came from a BP background rather than an airgunning one. As always, I’m probably wrong.

                Just my thoughts. By they way, I know you know more than all this, just trying to make my reasoning clear.


                • BG_Farmer,

                  In the beginning, Gary Barnes knew nothing about barrels. But he borrowed a book about Harry Pope’s barrels and within a few months started making the finest long-range big bore airgun barrels ever seen. Today he has guns that will shoot groups smaller than two inches at 200 yards.

                  As for his style, many people feel like you. Gary refused to make a gun that looked like one made by anyone else. That’s why I called his guns “Klingon Eradicators.” They just were not of this world. But they shot powerfully and accurately.

                  Because he read about Pope, Barnes rifles with micro-groove rifling in a left-hand twist pattern.

                  Dennis Quackenbush also has always made his own barrels. Often, he cut-rifled them, though I believe he button-rifles them now, because he makes so many. His accuracy is on the order of an inch at 50 yards.

                  Dennis is the gun guy. He has been around firearms all his life, and his designs are more traditional. He is starting to build a .50-caliber rifle that achieves 750 foot-pounds right off the bat, which is a huge step forward. It’s a 50 percent increase on the power level he has been getting from his guns.

                  Dennis rifles barrels for heavy conicals, not for patched balls. The rifling is deep and square.

                  B.B.


                  • BB,
                    Thanks for the additional information. Its odd that they bother making their own barrels, given the high quality of barrel they could buy off the shelf from several MLing barrel companies (some of whom also have barrels for conicals). Unless velocity with the conicals is extremely good, I still think PRB’s might be worth considering, especially in the larger bores.


            • BG-You would not go to jail that s the beauty of it it is still an air rifle they would just be confused :) on one of ours forums somebody mentioned possability to order big bore airgun from Pyramyd so the biggest question was how would they look at it on border custom,see we here still dont have european laws like Dave UK or most of the Europe that limits power on air weapons


  4. Regarding the previous post:
    @ Kevin: I shoot a .177 Gamo Shadow 1000 with a GTR III trigger and a Gamo 4×32 scope.
    @ CJr: Thanks for the links, I can’t believe I missed those when reading through the archive.


    • Wildey,

      Thanks. The GRT III trigger is the difference between night and day when compared to the factory triggers. Great upgrade.

      kevin


      • Thanks Kevin,
        The factory trigger gets better if you shoot a lot, stil GRT III beats that trigger by miles.
        No creep and the trigger breaks like glass at the same point every time.
        I’ve got it set fairly light ( I guestimate about 3 pounds) and with a nearly absent first stage.
        Installing it is easy but the included manual could be a bit better (but that’s what the internet is for right?
        Wildey


  5. B.B.

    I have a question that has been itching me for a little while and hope that I am worrying about nothing, but here goes…
    When I tore my 48 down and lubed it, I noticed a very obvious bend in the mainspring near one end. This gun has only had 500 or so shots through it.
    Is this normal for a Diana or does it sound like this spring will bite the dust early?? Or is it impossible to predict ?

    twotalon


  6. When I first saw the Alecto it was all I could do to not think, “Ah, a P17 with alot of bells and whistles.” But the multi-pump nature of this pistol intrigues me so, like, Bristolview has already commented I too am awaiting chrony and accuracy tests. While not personally in *my* budget at present, the whole package seems a fair price. My greatest concern with this pistol is its construction and longevity. The P17/Marksman 2004/Beeman 2006 was a wonderfully performing copy of the P3 but with cheaper construction and -as I’ve personally experienced- can and will die early. Without having seen details to the construction and choice of materials throughout the Alecto, I’m wondering how many life cycles the unit has. Anything from Webley? B.B, could this research be incorporated in to a future blog on this pistol? Do you need a “helper?” *grins*
    And Bristolview, one thing to add to your “hunt” is that whatever CO2 pistol you choose in the end to dispatch your mice woes, do make sure there’s enough fpe to do the job in one shot. The last thing you want is a wounded mouse scampering off to die minutes later and, that, under some inaccessible floorboards. I need not say more. Have traditional traps not sufficed? Have you considered or tried CB caps in a .22 (short or long)?



    • Chris S. and Bristolview,

      Having already done the velocity testing that will appear next week I can tell you that you will both be pleased. This is one remarkable air pistol.

      As far as the longevity, I don’t know for certain of course, but this pistol is built like a plastic tank! It is far more rugged than a P17/P3.

      B.B.


      • Thanks B.B. That helps. This looks like a great pistol. I too, am concerned about the life span of the pistol. Glad you think it’s well built so far. Thanks.


    • Thanks for the tips. The area of this hunt is underground in cement pipes. Not a nice place really, but such is life. I don’t have to worry about the little critter running away wounded and dying in my wall or under a floorboard. Even though that’s not a concern, I don’t want to injure any little guys without doing a humane shot. I don’t wish them to suffer any, as with any hunting. My CP99 is enough to roll one and send him to the great cheese ball in the sky.


  7. Does this gun offer an ambidextrous grip? From the photos that does not appear to be so. However, as you were pointing out the choices this gun has to offer I will ask the question anyway. Thanks.


  8. I’ve been able to shoot my friends Alecto on several occasions. I’m not a pistol guy but this gun impressed me. The adjustments are numerous and effective. The first thing my friend did with his pistol was replace the seals and while at it shimmed the breech seal. Apparently, this is a common upgrade for these pistols. His pistol still has evidence of blow by, next to the breech seal, that’s readily apparent when you open the pistol to pump.

    He bought his first two pistols from somewhere other than PA and returned both because they had a burr on the crown and wouldn’t group. After his second pistol arrived from this other dealer with a burr on the crown he returned it and bought one from PA. Surprisingly, his gun groups best with crosman premier hollowpoints.

    The kit, including case is a nice touch. The twisted metal bore brush that’s included is terrifying. I wouldn’t use it on the bore of any gun.

    kevin


    • I just remembered that Erik also did the valve adjustment to get his gun shooting hotter. Turning a screw increased his velocity. I don’t remember the details but he said it only took him a few minutes.

      kevin


  9. Kevin

    The scope I mounted to the PW R7 is a Leapers Golden Image 3-9x32AO. I wanted to keep it light, and have no need for anything bigger. It has a nice sharp reticle, I like it.

    The pellet I am using is the 8.64 grain H&N Field Target Trophy. First time I had ever tried the pellets and I shot I one hole group. You can imagine my joy/surprise. By comparison I had to try 5 or 6 different pellets before I found what my TX200 likes (lubed CPLs.)

    Interestingly my other, newer R7 likes H&N Barracuda Match/Beeman Kodiaks. At 10.65 grains, that is a heavy pellet for a lower powered gun. No doubt she likes them though, and as I mentioned before it is still dieseling. I don’t see any smoke, but I can smell the fumes.

    I haven’t gotten around to ordering any JSB express, but I will. I have a ton of pellets right now. I can barely open the drawer. I was going to try those Gamo Glow Fires, but then I checked the price–
    $10.99 for 150 .177 caliber pellets? Beeman/H&N .25 caliber pellets cost less! Did I mention I’m cheap? I was also thinking of trying the JSB Exact RS. Have you tried these?

    11 MONTHS?!! You have the patience of a saint. I would literally explode. I guess it helps to have a multitude of fine guns to shoot while you wait. I forgot to mention in yesterday’s post that Paul Watts is not only a craftsman in every sense of the word, but a true southern gentleman, and a joy to talk to on the phone.

    Ironic that you mention both the R8 and the HW55T, because even though I need a new airgun like I need a bout of pancreatic cancer, those are the next two on my list. Or an FX Royale or Tarantula, but I digress.

    I am happy that I could help you out by swiping up this gun before you could get your greedy paws on it. Thank you again for the heads up.

    Best regards.


    • Slinging Lead,

      LOL! Boy was I tempted.

      That leapers scope is a nice match for an R7. I ended up putting a burris timberline 4.5-14x on my PW R7 since it’s a little lighter than your golden image and can be cranked up to 14x.

      Thanks for the info on the H & N Field Target Trophy. I don’t have any of those but do have the beeman field target specials which are supposedly the same pellet. They work well in my R7′s but were the best in both of my FWB 124′s. My PW R7 likes the jsb exacts in the blue tin.

      Yes, I’ve tried the jsb rs pellets. They work well in several guns. I would strongly recommend that instead of buying the jsb rs pellets that you buy the air arms falcon pellets instead. Same specs (7.33 gr, 4.52mm) but more consistency (courtesy of Wayne). I really like the air arms falcon pellets.

      You’ve got some great guns on your short list. I was hot for an FX Royale but cooled when I talked to one owner that has returned two new guns because they wouldn’t group. Many others have written that their FX Royales shoot great. I can personally vouch for the R8, HW55T and Tarantula accuracy.

      Ah yes, waiting on a tuned gun. When you get to my age and have to wait that long for a tuned gun to return you will probably forget about it too. When the call comes that the gun is finished and being shipped it’s like getting a new gun all over again!

      kevin


      • Kevin

        I do remember Wayne talking about the Falcon pellets. I will be getting some of these as well. Where is that wacky guy anyway?

        I also remember you talking about the Burris Timberline on more than one occasion. I fear that I will succumb to the temptation of spending big money on a scope, but you have never steered me wrong.

        Speaking of which. What do you like better between the FX Tarantula and the AAS410?



          • BB

            Thanks for the link. I had almost forgotten how absolutely beautiful that rifle is.

            I may have to splurge for that scope, it seems the perfect mate for my older R7. I notice that PA does not carry that scope. Hint hint. Also PA still doesn’t have JSB Express in the blue tin. Double hint hint.

            BTW: What time are you and Mac gonna swing by to pick me up on the way to Roanoke? I need to set my alarm clock.


            • SL,

              Mac is just leaving Johnson City, TN, on his way here to pick me up. I am returning three years of test airguns to Pyramyd Air at the show, so my truck will have over 150 airguns with all that, plus my guns and Mac’s.

              We can fasten you to the rear bumper with cable ties, but that’s all the space we have at this point.

              B.B.


        • Slinging Lead,

          Tarantula vs. S410

          I’ve owned two tarantula’s and two S410′s each with sidelevers. I’ve kept one of each so that should tell you something. The tarantula I kept has grade IV wood. The checkering and finish are terrific. I like looking at the tarantula more than the S410. I had an S410 carbine with the classic tube installed for higher shot count and ended up selling it. I still have an S410 rifle. Both S410′s have the thumbhole stocks with adjustable butt pads from the factory. All of these guns are .22 caliber.

          Tarantula’s are loud compared to the S410′s that are shrouded. Their FX triggers can be adjusted nicely but they’re finicky/tough to adjust. The S410 triggers can be adjusted wonderfully well with little effort. The sidelevers on the S410′s work very smoothly. The older S410 bolt action guns are stiff. The tarantula bolt works but is sticky. Power level on the tarantula’s can be adjusted but you have to take the action out of the stock. Both of my S410′s have the power adjuster on the side. The magazines on the S410′s load easily and work well. The aftermarket RC magazines for the S410 work flawlessly. I don’t like the FX magazines (tarantula, ranchero, cyclone-sorry volvo). They’re fiddly to load and don’t insert easily into the breech. They work ok and I’ve never had a cycling issue. At similar power the S410 rifle gets around twice the accurate shots that the tarantula does per fill.

          At shorter distances the tarantula and S410 are equally accurate. At 100 yards the S410 rifle is significantly better. The S410 carbine I owned didn’t group well at 100 yards either. Shorter barrel? The S410 will shoot almost any pellet accurately. My tarantula’s are picky. The one I kept will only shoot jsb 18.1 gr pellets well.

          Overall I like the S410 rifle a little better.

          kevin


        • Hi Guys & Gals,
          “Where has Wacky Wayne been?…

          I’ve been traveling… Arizona & California state matches, (5th at CA state in open class) and fun shoots at LDs when I have a delivery and can make an excuse to go that direction.
          Then when I get back, I’m in catchup mode, (some exciting things happening in the raised bed business) so I mostly just give a quick read, with little time for comments.

          Tim and LD are making me a .22 cal, 32fpe bench rest version USFT. I’m enjoying that game too. Most folks think, like I use to, that bench rest is about testing guns & pellets, and not a sport. But when one tries it, they find that doping the wind and trigger control, make it very fun and interesting.

          With this new business deal I’m working on, I couldn’t get away to the national field target contest this year in MD. (it’s happening this weekend).

          We are having a west coast shootout the last weekend of this month, if anyone wants to come and play. (Matt61? anyone??? come on up, there are folks coming from the bay area that would give you a ride too). I have extra quality FT rifles you can borrow and play with.
          We’ll have up to 20fpe open class, up to 12fpe international class, Piston class, Bench rest, open sights pistol FT, and scoped pistol FT. And a 150 point Triathlon, where you count your three best 50 shot scores, from any classes.

          Wacky Wayne,
          Match Director,
          Ashland Air Rifle Range




      • How about a little update on mine to help you wait ?
        I measured and weighted the 3 kinds of BB’s I had (Crosman Copperhead, Daisy’s and Beeman’s) and they pretty much weight and measure the same thing (within a 0.2 mm of each other) and well they all shot the same too, about 6 inches (I didn’t bother measuring precisely since they were less than a half inch difference between the different bb’s) at 10 meter, offhand.

        Not even soda can accuracy. The groups look like a fired a shotgun.
        If the groups we see here look better (and I sure hope they are) I’ll buy a new one and maybe try to fix of make this one more accurate (although I have not the slightest idea how to do that), that the good part of buying under 40$ airguns… you’re less afraid to open them up.

        I forgot to tell you guys last time, I also bought a P17 (two actually as the first one stopped working after the 4th shot) the second after about 300 rounds still works fine, it’s a nice pistol and it’s hard to argue with something in that price range (I can’t help it, I’m a sucker for cheap airguns).

        When I got back home I found 2 old marksman 1911 look alike in a case in the garage with a small box of marksman pellets made of plastic with a small bb at the end, kind of like the skenco ones. I tried them in my izh-60, Crosman premiers average 484fps I then put one of the marksman one in it and BOOM 703fps ! Wow my rifle is now illegal here! I didn’t have time to test for accuracy yet. We’ll see what they can do.

        J-F




    • No idea.
      I just m8ight get two kits from Maccari. One for the 48 and another for the 97.
      The 48 is not buzzing, but the noise from the 97 is very unnerving.
      The 48 is a piece of cake to work on, but the 97 is a SOB.

      twotalon


      • twotalon,

        Without question the maccari parts are tried and true. Can’t help but be overcome by the praise of the vortek drop in kits though. Did you know they just came out with a kit for the HW97 as well? (#HW97-77012026OC/26m, it also has 4 guides that are adjustable [sub 12ft/lbs~15ft/lbs] )

        Don’t overlook the tuning ability of Pyramyd Air as well. As I understand it, they’re now the authorized beeman service/tuning center.

        kevin


        • I have had both guns apart and can work on them for most purposes. Have had four different guns apart so far.
          Standard power kits are fine with me if I need them. No need to send either gun off for work with what I have. Just need the parts. No special work really needed.

          Made a couple pull through brushes today from rifle/pistol brushes, some brazing rod, and some spider wire.

          twotalon


  10. For longer than I can remember, I wanted the P1/HW45 as my uber field pistol. After waiting an eternity, I finally purchased one. I was horribly dissapointed, as I just couldn’t get it to group. Even with tips from B.B. and others here, it and I just did not get along. For many, this is THE pistol. It was no longer that for me, I was crushed. I’m hoping the Alecto will fill the void. Many of the benefits of the P3/P17 but with a few extras that make it a little more appealing to *me*. Can’t wait to hear more.


  11. Oh B.B. I forgot to make a request on the Alecto Part 2. Can you put a picture of it in hand? That would help me get an idea of it’s size. Or next to well known other pistols like a CP-99 or P3/P17. We know it’s big, this would help us put it in perspective. Thanks!


    • Bristolview,

      Just for you I’m taking that gun-in-hand photo. I’ll use Edith’s hand, which is identical to mine, only her fingers are slightly longer.

      B.B.


  12. B.B., the overall design of the Webley looks like the Desert Eagle. The gun also appears to be something to really sink your teeth into for accuracy testing. I’m looking forward to the results. You’re right about the “nice presentation,” but I can’t help laughing at that phrase which is one of my favorite lines from the Mark Wahlberg film, Shooter, based on a Stephen Hunter novel. After listening to a Mark Wahlberg testimony that exposes him as the villain he is, Danny Glover smirks and says, “Nice presentation…but I’m protected from prosecution.” He he. I don’t think Danny Glover is really suited to be a bad guy.

    BG_Farmer, I seem to recall your difficulties with the scope. Was that a Savage rifle? For all my foibles with scopes, I have to consider myself lucky. They can zero for my 5 yard distance which I don’t believe is common.

    On the subject of Savage rifles, is it possible that the majority of users are significantly more clueless than other shooters? Present company excepted of course. Time and again, I watch YouTube videos of people treating Savage rifles in the strangest ways. One guy advertising a speed drill went through a magazine and a few single rounds in leisurely fashion while hammering the bolt and jerking the rifle to eject cases. Then, in the comments, he complained about the rough action on the rifle. Another guy with a top of the line $2000 BAS sniper rifle would open the bolt to eject the case. Then to close the bolt, he raised his army fully extended above his shoulder and hurled the arm forward in a rough pitching motion so that his hand slammed the bolt closed. This rifle (in the hands of Team Savage) holds under 1/2 MOA hundreds of yards out! The video really turned the stomach.

    Matt61


    • Matt,
      Low cost/high volume of Savages is blessing and curse. The more affordable and more units made, the more clueless users you get. There is also the inevitable siren call of elitism for others, who will take a tiny bit of roughness in the action, cosmetic compromises, or a single unit’s defects and turn it into more than it is, essentially comparing a Savage to a high-end custom or match rifle. I think reasonable people, such as ourselves:), are just happy that Savage has all this figured out and continues to produce a reasonable rifle of good accuracy and durability at an affordable price:). That is one reason that I’m pretty vocal about mine — they exceed expectations in almost every category that is important to me.


      • Yes, I too thought that the key factor at work was the low price which simultaneously attracts the intelligent and discriminating :-) and the clueless and seekers of convenience. Another weird habit I noticed is people dismounting the rifle to work the bolt.


        • Matt,
          The bolts on Savages cause a lot of chatter. My theory/understanding is that they maintain tolerances on the tight side for accuracy but for economy do not do any special fitting or lapping. This means they are tight and a bit rough initially, but in most cases wear in acceptably (and also mate precisely) within a few shots for most people. I imagine that some people try to short circuit the process or manhandle the bolt from the start and possibly make the situaion worse. It may also be that some bolts are really tight. Both my c/f and r/f bolts loosened up after about 10 or 20 normal cycles, at which point I could see the bearing areas, to which I applied some moly paste. I assume that if I had lubricated initially, it may have taken longer to wear in. In my case, it would not have been worth much to me to have this taken care of at the factory, but it can be a sticking point for some.


          • I have a Savage .22lr and not only it is very accurate, but is also pleasure to shoot. I can operate the bolt with my thumb from shooting position without loosing sight of target. The accu-trigger is wonderful. Yes, I would much rather have it come with a wooden stock and a better scope but then I could not afford it. I still can’t believe I bought it for under $300


            • TE

              When I suggested CPLs for the TX, I neglected to mention that I lubricate them with BBs recipe for Whiscombe honey. This is an oversight I must apologize for. You don’t want to lead up your barrel, as you have to disassemble the rifle to clean it from the breach end with JBs nebcc. I did that myself, and it is not difficult, but lubricating pellets is easier, no?



  13. Like Bristolview, I have been looking forward to this review. I am more a rifle guy, but really accurate pistols are not to be ignored. Perhaps a shootout between the Alecto, and a Beeman P1 would draw a crowd?

    If I may, here is a video preview of the Alecto that piqued my interest to begin with from my second favorite Brit, Nigel Allen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp9LZLH3Kwg


  14. B.B., I forgot to mention that I like the idea of the adjustable front sight. That was one of my reasons for getting the B30 although I was since disappointed since it kept sliding off the rail, and even Rich Imhoff couldn’t fix it. However, I think the concept is sound.

    Frank B.! Just heard that the CMP will shortly acquire and offer for sale genuine WWII era bayonets for the M1 Garand (10″) at “reasonable prices.” I can only hope these prices are much lower than the few examples I’ve seen advertised. Anyway, picture a razor-sharp bayonet mounted on my rifle, a bayonet sharpened on my Japanese water stones. Now there’s some cross-cultural interaction for you.

    By the way, I had a chance to test the $19.95 ceramic knife that my Dad bought. You were right. It’s not dull, but it doesn’t compare to the edge I can get on steel knives with my water stones–that’s probably an indictment right there. We’ll see how the ceramic knife holds its edge over time.

    Matt61


    • You mean how long it can remain mediocre? LOL I do own a ceramic peeler that’s several years old….and shows no signs of wear.One day when you can splurge,if you spend much time in the kitchen….get a ceramic Santoku(which means 3 things well) in the hundred dollar range.They are nice for veg. prep!
      I have polished a shaving edge on the Gransfor Bruks four lug axe…..I need to send you a picture.




        • Now Bruce…you gotta know if I email a pic worth looking at,you’re definately getting an Email! See guys the big problem is getting the pics,then getting them into the laptop,etc……just one problem after another.I’m actually looking for a class to take.I’ll find someone who could use some tutoring money.That won’t be hard these days.


      • Ah, I’m jealous, a shaving edge on an axe no less. I didn’t follow your comment about the Santoku with 3 things well. The Santoku is the kitchen knife with those dimples that keep food from sticking to the blade right?

        Matt61


        • Yes,that’s the one….aparently the design combined 3 distinct purposes;hence the name Santoku.Big culinary fad in the last 5 or 10 years.They are pretty versatile.I won’t use one smaller than 10″,and cheap ones loose everything in the translation.That’s my .02$


  15. Sigh,
    Another nice airgun I’ll never own.
    Dutch airgun laws are weird, I can own anything from .177 to .50 cal and put a silencer on it
    but as soon as it even looks a bit like a fire arm I can’t have it……
    Oh well, stuff like this wil just have to be filed under :
    If life gives you lemons….blast them with your airgun, it won’t solve anything but target practice is always nice
    Wildey


  16. Because it seems so many guns like them, I’m going to try some JSB Exact’s in .177
    The are available in both 4.5 and 4.52mm diameter. Any clue as to which I should try in my Slavia 630?


    • CBS that s the same thing i use 4,52 at the moment and for D34 5,52 , right now i am using some field target pellets that i bought at market place and they are good with my Slavia s (both)


  17. OK folks, another topic for discussion for the weekend. Next week, as probably everyone knows, I will be going to the Roanoke Airgun Show. I want to acquire a Weihrauch rifle – either the R7, 8, 9 or an HW 30 or 50. I would like to trade my RWS 350 for this rifle (probably 95%) as I have an RWS 52 and would like something different for my collection. I’m also anxious to try the Rekord trigger.

    Who recommends what rifle and why? Is there a overall consensus for one of these? BB?

    Fred PRoNJ


    • Fred PRoNJ,

      Is this for hunting, plinking or shooting small groups on paper? What distance will you usually shoot? Do you plan on scoping the gun?

      What made you decide to keep the 52 and sell the 350? This could give us some insight.

      kevin


      • Kevin, this rifle will be used for paper punching and plinking. Range is not an issue – could be from 10 to 40 yards. My go-to hunter is the Discovery. The 350 and the 52 are roughly the same power but the 52 is much easier to shoot accurately due to a tamer recoil and it’s the only sliding compression chamber rifle I own and a side lever. So, another break barrel is desired and with everyone here extolling the value of HW/Beeman, I decided it’s time to try one. Caliber won’t be important since the use is not for hunting.

        Never mind the Yellow. I need to hold it in my hands and take it home with me next Saturday. A trade would be the best of all worlds but I’m flexible.

        Fred PRoNJ


        • Fred PRoNJ

          You have chosen wisely. A Beeman RX/HW rifle is a must have, if you want a breakbarrel.

          I don’t have a 350 magnum but do own a Diana 52. I considered the 350 when I was looking for my first high dollar air rifle, but the “350 MAGNUM” stamped into the stock made me throw-up in my mouth a little bit. I really like my 52 in .22. Silky smooth for the power it has. Someday I hope to buy a Lexus stock for it.

          As for which Beeman/HW to get, hmmm. Tough question. Kevin/Volvo/BB have much more extensive knowledge than I, but If you are not concerned with power/long range, I would get an R7/HW30S. It is so easy to cock, and satisfying to do so. ‘Snick.’ That is the smooth precision sound it makes when cocked. It is light, well balanced, and has a nice firing cycle. Talk about tame recoil. It will be accurate, but not powerful out to your 40 yard range. I would insist that it have the iron sights mounted, and not a muzzle brake, but that is just me. This is an heirloom rifle you will not want to get rid of. Did I mention it is great for kids, or women that are smaller of frame? My old lady is 4’11. That means her wingspan is approximately equivalent. She simply lacks the leverage, not the strength, to cock most of my springers. Not so with the R7. Try to get an older one, with the hand-cut checkering on the grip. If you don’t intend to scope it, I would go with the HW30S as it has a shorter comb on the stock.

          I also have an HW50S. It kicks and buzzes like a mule with a beehive hat, but is accurate as all hell, in spite of my incompetence.


        • Fred PRoNJ,

          Okay, here’s my input in addressing your list. I assume you’re still at sea level (Peoples Republic of New Jersey?). Since you’re going to plink and paper shoot I’m going to respond to you in that mode. In other words, I’m not hunting with the gun I’m going to shoot 100 shots or so in short order from a bench or offhand. Here’s my critique/opinion on your list:

          I’m not a fan of the current HW50. It’s about 100fps faster than the old HW50/R8 but the firing cycle is very coarse and buzzy. The bavarian stock style is ideal for open sights but for the distances you want to shoot (out to 40 yards) a scope, even with low mounts is ackward on this gun. Poor cheek weld. For the power output I think the gun has too much effort to cock. Don’t misunderstand me, the gun is not that hard to cock. Mac liked this gun though and shot some good groups at 30 yards. I sold mine shortly after purchase and never considered tuning it. Just me.

          I’ve owned 3 R9′s. So many people rave about these guns that I keep trying them. My latest is an R9 in .20 caliber (I agree with the many that this is the best caliber for this power plant) and was smooth tuned by Jim Maccari and while he was working his magic he cut, crowned and re-choked the barrel. I like how this gun now balances just forward of the trigger guard. It has the best shot cycle of any R9 I’ve owned and is dead nuts accurate at the 25 yards I’ve shot but I just can’t warm up to this gun. I would never own another R9 in .177 caliber. Tell me if you have any interest in the .20 caliber R9 tuned by maccari.

          I prefer the stock on an R7 over the HW30 for the reasons stated above about the HW50. You probably know by now I have a soft spot for R7′s. I’ve only owned R7′s in .177 but because of the special R7 Volvo has in .20 caliber I would like to try one. 40 yards is a stretch for the normal R7 at my elevation but on days without wind you will be happy shooting and plinking with an R7 whether it’s in .177 or .20.

          The R8 I own is my favorite springer out of many I’ve owned. REALIZE that I normally shoot at 5,200 feet elevation. Because of my loss of velocity it’s like shooting an R7 at your elevation. My R8 with 7.3 gr pellets is doing around 690fps. My R8 was tuned by Paul Watts which is a large part of the thrill. I think that if I was at your elevation my PW tuned R7 would be my favorite but at my elevation it’s a bit anemic for 40 yard shooting when there’s a little to a lot of wind. Because of the rarity of the R8′s you would probably need to add some extra cash to the 350 in order to trade for one. Another strike against the R8 vs. R7.

          Hope this helps.

          kevin


          • Kevin

            Keep your wandering eyes off of Volvo’s R7 in .20 caliber. If anybody is going to trick him out of it, it is going to be me.

            Fred PRoNJ

            PS: go with .177 or .20. Ignore .22.


    • Fred, I would go with the HW95 Luxus (same as R9) in .20 caliber. The 95 comes with open sights, the new R9 does not. The other rifles are all fine choices but this one has the best of both worlds. Power, acccuracy and smooth shooting characteristics.


      • Interesting consensus is R7, R8 and R9. Hmmmm – Kevin or SL, or BB, if you want to toss in your two cents, if a good looking HW is on the table – which HW models are the equivalent of these three? I just can’t remember but I promise, I’ll write it down. Toby, thanks for that HW95/R9 hint.

        The following caused me to laugh out loud. While you folks in Europe or down under may not understand it fully, it involves a big discount store here in the USA that hires retirees and “challenged” people to greet it’s customers (Hope this is OK, Edith and to the rest of the Blog who might take offense with me clogging up the blog with jokes, it’s a one time thing. We should not make a habit of doing this as I agree we need to keep this discussion focused on airguns):

        Charley, a new retiree-greeter at Wal-Mart, just couldn’t seem to get to work on time.
        Every day he was 5, 10, 15 minutes late. But he was a good worker, really tidy, clean-shaven, sharp minded and a real credit to the company and obviously demonstrating their “Older Person Friendly” policies.
        One day the boss called him into the office for a talk.
        “Charley, I have to tell you, I like your work ethic, you do a bang up job,but your being late so often is quite bothersome.”

        “Yes, I know boss, and I am working on it.”
        ”Well good, you are a team player. That’s what I like to hear.
        It’s odd though your coming in late. I know you’re retired from the Armed Forces.What did they say if you came in late there?”

        ”They said, “Good morning, Admiral, can I get you coffee, sir?”’

        Fred PRoNJ


        • Fred,

          I have stayed out of this, but if you absolutely want my input, here goes. I would buy a vintage HW 50. As you may remember, I own an HW 55F, which is essentially an HW 50 with target sights. I love the gun and that would be my long-term choice for you.

          You’ll be at Roanoke, so the possibilities of finding one are high. Of course if a nice R8 or R7 were to pop up I wouldn’t overlook them, either.

          B.B.


          • BB,

            I did absolutely want your input. Thank you, SL and Kevin for all your help. I just sold my .45 ACP to my brother so if I do find one of these rifles – R7/HW30; R9/95 or HW50/55S at the show and my 350 is not desired for a trade, I now have some cash in the event the purchase price is reasonable.

            Fred PRoNJ



        • Fred PRoNJ,

          R1 = HW80
          R5 = FWB 124
          R6 = HW99 (new HW50)
          R7 = HW30
          R8 = HW50 (old HW 50) This gun was also badged a Marksman 40 but usually had a perfekt trigger not the rekord. rekord is a drop in fit in this gun though.
          R9 = HW95
          R10 = HW85
          R11 = HW98 This gun was also badged a Marksman 58

          There isn’t a beeman ( R ) equivalent to the HW55 although there are HW55 guns marked “Imported by Beeman”. The HW55 was a target rifle based on the OLD HW 50 sporter action.

          Two stocks are commonly seen on the HW 55. First is the HW 55 SM with a fairly plain beech stock that has “Bayern” traditional German styling, grasping grooves in the fore end, and a checkered grip. The other is the walnut HW 55 MM that has a similar profile, adding a full cheekpiece, more checkering, and an accessory rail under the fore end on most examples.

          Rarer versions are the HW 55 T with walnut Tyrolean stock, and the HW 55 CM with a heavy match stock resembling the old Feinwerkbau 300S.

          I went into some detail on the differences between the OLD HW50 and NEW HW50 in the comments under Part 1 of B.B.’s article on his R8.

          kevin


        • Fred PRoNJ,

          On my way into Wal-mart yesterday and was greeted by a man who reminded me of that joke. I laughed inside pretty good. He was clearly a man with a distinguished past. I reached out and shook his hand keeping my laughter in check with a big smile. All I could say was “good morning, sir.”

          I took me a while, but I found your post and had to comment!

          ka


          • What, and you didn’t offer to get him coffee? It’s permanent KP for you, KA!

            Fred PRoNJ (that’s People’s Repubik of NJ – get the spelling right, SL and Kevin)


  18. Did anyone notice the interesting valve system that allows the Alecto to be as efficient as it is? It is in some ways comparable to the “Shark” CO2 shotgun or the Titan JB1. The air reservoir sits directly behind the breech and the valve that plugs the communication hole to the barrel has a stem that runs through the reservoir, and exits it on the rear side. The valve is pulled open by two springs. A bit like the system of the Daisy 747 / Weihrauch Hw 40, but without the 90° kink.

    This is so far the most efficient airgun valve system. No valve stem that sits in the communication hole to the barrel. No curve the air has to take. Almost no dead space between reservoir and pellet.

    I always wonder why this system has not established itself. Ok, you need a rather complicated mechanism to load the pellet – there is no place for a traditional bolt-action style. The Shark solves it with a sliding barrel. the Alecto and JB1 with a “break-open”-barrel. Still, imagine a multi-pump pneumatic with such a valve! 2-3 easy pumps could more do what 10 pumps do on a Benjamin Sheridan.


    • Mel,

      You seem to be talking about a straight-through pathway for the air. AirForce PCPs all have that. It was first used by the airguns of the 1600s that relied on butt-flask reservoirs. The 1780 Girandoni was probably the most famous gun to use it.

      B.B.


      • Yes, the Girandoni and Air Force PCPs have the straight pathway. However, both have a valve stem (or a hollowed-out derivative of it) that sits in the communication port between barrel and reservoir. The Alecto has a valve where the stem exits to the rear of the reservoir. This gives an even better performance than the system used on the Condor airguns.

        Plus, the Air Force airguns use a loading mechanism that puts quite a lot of dead space behind the pellet. Which is not that much of an issue on their long-barreled rifles, but would be with a pistol such as the Alecto.


  19. Bristolview,

    One more thought for your mouse problem – a method known as “the bucket of death.” I don’t know if it would work with these cunning rodents, but it is worth a try because it it works, you’ll get many with minimal effort. Modify it based on your spatial constraints.

    It simply is a bucket, usually a 5 gallon or so, half filled with water, and with sunflower seeds floating on top. The rodents see the “jackpot,” jump in, and then drown. If it works, you can get many in one setting.

    You can use a smaller bucket for mice, but they can’t be able to stand in it or reach the top once in it. 6 inches should do it for mice. Just make sure they have an easy time getting to the rim – something to walk on or climb on. The drawback is that it can attract other animals for the free meal – I used it to deal with an overrun of chipmunks, but squirrels would sit on the edge dipping in for the seeds. But it still worked well – no more infestation.

    Alan in MI


  20. This came in through Blogger, which we do not answer. It’s from Luciano, an Italian.

    CIAO SONO LUCIANO VORREI SAPERE SE CI POSSO METTERE LA MOLLA MACCARI SULLA CARABINA QB36

    I believe Luciano is asking whether he can put a Maccari mainspring into a QB 36.

    Well, since the Tech Force 97 is a QB 36-II with a Maccari mainspring, the answer is yes. But which spring they use, I have no idea.

    If any Italian-speaking readers would like to answer Luciano here, please feel free.

    B.B.


    • BB, I believe the TF97 is a QB36, while the TF99 is the QB36-2 variant. The QB36 is a smaller, less powerful gun with a smaller powerplant.

      In any event, this is from Maccarri’s website: (Edith: Please delete if I shouldn’t be cutting and pasting from his website!)

      “Please do not contact Compasseco for ARH-Maccari spring installs or said parts. We have not supplied them with springs for many, many years even though their advertising lasted far longer. ( last shipment-early 2004) When we did it was for the Model 97-99 only and when their Gunsmith left to work for B’Square company several years ago that agreement ended. We never sold those two springs via our website as we agreed not too. Feel free to contact us at anytime by email to check the status of your third party parts supplier.”



  21. Very quiet here tonight.

    Tested the 97K this morning in the cold. Had frost last night. Wanted to see how the zero held with a lot of temperature change.

    Walked around just after sunup for about an hour with the gun to cool it off. Then plinked apples again. Holes appeared right on the crosshairs in the same spot as when the temperature is comfortable…20 yds or so. One unfortunate starling chose a spot at around 30 yds or so.

    No problems with temperature drift with this gun/scope combo. Have had guns and scopes go nuts when shot at temperatures that were not much different from the temperature that they were zeroed at.

    When I stick the 97 out the back door repeatedly this winter I will not have to worry about the gun getting cold. Other than breathing on the eyepiece and fogging it up, that is.
    The 97 will not get all of the action. You think I would neglect the TSS and the 48? So much ammo to burn, so many crabapples, and so many starlings to turn into good starlings.

    Drinking margaritas and watching the SyFy channel now.

    twotalon


    • Now I’m getting jealous of the ’97 and the tree…..sounds like an excellent backdoor range! Have you ever tried a regged tank on the Talon? Forgive me if you’ve talked about it and I didn’t pay attention.
      I found a small tank for 3000 psi that was regulated down to 2000.I put my Co2 valve on it,and it shot a nice consistant Poi for over 30 shots at 40 yds. using .22 Eujins.Don’t ask about groups…but no stringing.


      • Never tried a regulator. Just using the straight AF tanks and valves. Been getting the velocity range I want with both with the pellets they like..
        Been running the Talondor with 180 bar fill and TSS with 170 bar fill.
        I use them for hunting mostly so not much need for a great many shots, except for the TSS when the starling shooting gets heavy. May refill twice a day.
        I usually stop at 30 shots with both guns.

        Most back yard shots from 20-30 yds. One place this time of year, 55-60 yds. They love those tall electric towers.

        Shooting is best during bad snow storms for my back yard. Second best is when there is a solid coating of ice or snow on the ground. They avoid me the rest of the time.

        twotalon


        • Starlings are very satisfying at long range.The craziest shot I ever made hunting with a springer was the .22 Marksman 70.I was hanging out an opening in the upstairs balcony where there was no screen
          in a 1 1/2′ section on my right side.I steadied the gun with my left hand from the scope bell as there was no available rest~try that sometime.I read about a silouette shooter that held his P1 by the scope bell.The starling was on top of a pole diagonal from me across a four lane intersection.The headshot put the starling about 1 foot from the base of the pole! I was expecting center mass.Never turn down a Marksman because it only has the Perfekt trigger instead of the Rekord….It’s better than a BSF with less than a million shots on it.


          • I have pulled off some great shots over the years, and it does happen if you shoot enough. Sooner or later you either make the great shot that you intended on purpose, or you do it by accident.
            I am not nearly as good as I used to be, so those intentional shots don’t happen very often anymore.
            Up until about 15 yrs ago I was still pretty good. Don’t have too many steady days anymore.

            I will cheat any way I can to to get a good shot. I have to.
            The wildest shots are hitting the wrong bird because of the wind, hitting a tree branch, or knocking down two at a time.
            Then there is the special bird feeder that is lined up just right with the sides in line with my back door, and baited with cat food. Have taken starlings off of it 2 and 3 at a time. If filled with regular bird feed, can do the same with sparrows. That is a ‘setup’ shot though. Multiple kills under natural conditions are more amazing and satisfying. They happen when they happen.

            twotalon


          • There is one kind of shot to make that is very good. The calculated multiple kill.
            When starlings or sparrows are feeding on the ground, very often you will see them moving in front of or behind each other in a fairly predictable manner for short periods of time. When I spot two that will work themselves into alignment if they keep moving the same way, I will target one of them and if they get themselves lined up I will make the shot. Have to be quick on the trigger because they will not stay lined up for long.
            Sometimes works and sometimes not. Depends on how much the pellet deflects when passing through the first one.

            twotalon


            • I’m glad you picked up on the poop luck part.The untold part of the story is this….I was aiming for center mass because we had a Red tail Hawk that flew through the opening I used on the Starling.My roommate threw a blanket over it,put it in a large cage,kept it in the dark for three days…and trained it for falconing!I was getting it live food.Obviously at closer ranges,pidgeons were easy to acquire wounded to feed the hawk.I talked him into releasing the Hawk once the little abrasions it incurred trying to get back out of the porch healed.I learned alot about falconing from that guy though.Two and three at a time is legendary! I have a DAQ “Amaranth” liege lock airgun coming…it has two barrels,.375,one is smoothbore for shooting fiber wads with small shot.That sounds like what you need on them starlings! I bought the Amaranth from Billy LO,1995 FT Nationals champ.


  22. Waay off topic but i think that my cat is learning how to work on computer ,why i think so well every time when i want to work on a my computer she is on my chair and she is sleeping ,why is she tired on my computer chair… hm …hm…hmm too much work maybe :) !?


  23. So what does Alecto mean anyway?

    I saw a YouTube video where Steven Seagal is showing off his shooting skills. He claims that he spent many days shooting 1000 rounds per day to get as good as he is. Well, Seagal has been known to struggle with pathological lying. His New Jersey accent and the story that goes with it about being raised in a tough urban environment are completely bogus. Apparently, he had a privileged upbringing in the Michigan area. He tells similar fantastic stories about his time in Japan studying Aikido. Witnesses say that rather than immersing himself in feudal training, he spent a great deal of time playing the guitar. Still, he did pick up considerable martial arts skills I have to admit. I wouldn’t put him at the highest level with Jet Li, Bruce Lee, and Vladimir Vasiliev. The fact is that his moves on film are a bit unrealistic and while individually complicated are fairly repetitive. A lot of them consist of throwing people through plate glass windows which you don’t need a lot of training to do. I’m similarly skeptical about the 1000 rounds per day comment. Navy Seals in Vietnam apparently shot 2000 rounds per week in training. For Seagal to shoot that half that number in a single day is highly suspect.

    As far as how good he really is, the most impressive thing on the video was him shooting several rounds through essentially the same whole with a semiauto handgun. They didn’t specify the distance or the caliber of gun but that doesn’t look easy to do. Also, at 10 meters, he shot 10 softball sized gongs in fairly rapid order. That takes some skill, and he certainly outdid the policemen he was shooting with.

    Matt61


    • I really enjoy all his movies and the TV series Lawman, but he is no Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, or Jean Claude Van Damme, in martial arts. I doubt really that he could compete with our men/women serving in the military under real fire. As I said I enjoy the movies. I’m not saying I would want to go up against him though. :)

      rikib


      • Rikib, good point. When all is said, I wouldn’t want to mess with Steven Seagal either. And I will also admit that he is pretty entertaining to watch.

        As for Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Jean Claude Van Damme, appearances are not what they seem. The word is that Bruce Lee was really extremely good. Jackie Chan is a very highly-skilled technician and acrobat, but a lot of his stuff would not work in the real world. At least so says Bill “Superfoot” Wallace the champion kickboxer. Van Damme is a bodybuilder and ballet dancer who has mastered some difficult kicks and that’s about all. I was told this by a professional kickboxer who worked with him. Van Damme appears to have fallen off the map anyway. Maybe he’s been consumed by his very complicated personal life which is also the source of one of my favorite lines of his (said offscreen): “I don’t like to waste time with women. On a first date, I get past the superficial stuff. I want to know how many kids they want, what kind of house they want to live in….”

        Matt61


  24. FredPRoNJ:
    What HW/Beeman to get.
    A lovely dilemma.
    Although knowing for years how highly rated they were I still never got my first HW till recently.
    Slinging lead couldn’t have put it better though about HW’s being an ‘heirloom’.
    I look at my HW99s in the rack(two guns now,needed a rack lol)and marvel at its timeless looks.

    Great joke by the way,I shall keep that in the memory bank :)
    Here is one.
    Back in WWII the American 8th army air force was based in Norfolk,England.
    Nearby lived a farmer with three daughters.
    One night three US airman came a knocking.
    The first airman said,
    “Hi,my name is Vance and I’ve come to take Nance to the dance”
    The second airman said,
    “Hi,my name is Lowell and I’ve come to take Flo to the show”
    The third airman said,
    “Hi,my name is Chuck…..”

    DaveUK


    • Very amusing. I’m reminded of the British complaint about U.S. soldiers in WWII: “They’re overfed, they’re oversexed, and they’re over here.” So, there was something to this after all. I also understand that the German propaganda machine worked hard to inspire jealousy among the British soldiers to split the alliance. One of the means of doing this was to airdrop leaflets of extensive pornographic stories about American servicemen. But this idea didn’t go anywhere. The British found them very entertaining (and implausible) and even started collecting them for fun.

      Matt61



  25. Morning B.B.,

    Sure is a nice sunny, but windy day here in central Maryland. I was thinking about you, Mac and a truck full of 150++ guns going across the country. I don’t know how close you’ll be to our southern border, but I can see the headlines now. Gun runners arrested. A told you so from Janet at Home Land Security. The President behind the podium in the Rose Garden doing what he does best– reading the teleprompter. Last but not least, an interview on the Hannity show.

    Now for a serious question, which is should I store my 2240 with CO2 in it?

    Bruce


  26. Ok guys, another topic shift and more advice requested. I live in NY (only 4 miles from Crosman actually) and it’s starting to get cold. My favorite rifle for backyard plinking is a Crosman Custom Carbine from the custom shop, essentially an upgraded Outdoorsman. That rifle, being a CO2 rifle is coming to the end of it’s outdoor season as CO2 doesn’t work that well in the cold. What type of rifle is good in the winter?

    CO2 is out.

    Springers seem to have a lot of force, and impact within the gun. I know as things freeze, they become brittle. Any issues with springers and all that internal force when they’re frozen? Heavy wear and tear?

    How about PCP? They seem like a good bet. What about pneumatic? Lots of bottled up force, but no parts slamming together when they’re frozen solid. Any other recommendations? Am I just being too paranoid? I ask because I had a Daisy rifle that shot decently, and pretty much self destructed in the winter. It was only about 10 below, but it didn’t seem to like it much. It was buried in the spring, with target at half mast. So, what can hold up to the cold for a little (ok, maybe a lot) backyard target shooting in the winter?

    Thanks for any advice.


    • If it fits in the budget,a PCP is hard to beat.Good luck picking the Co2 up in the warm weather!I have alot of airguns….from Whiscombe on down…and even I want a Marauder! Then there are gas spring guns,which should do fine without fear of a brittle cold spring.


    • Bristolview,

      I do a lot of shooting in the cold at high elevation (9,500 + feet). As you noted, CO2 is out. Here’s my observations:

      I have more problems with scope shift when the gun comes out of the warm house into the cold outdoor temperatures than I have with the powerplant. Springers have, lubes, lubes get cold and the shot slows down. After the scope is acclimated to the outdoor temperature, I usually take several settling shots to warm the lubes. I find this is critical before you adjust for scope shift. Never had a problem with the cold weather making parts “brittle” and having them break. I don’t shoot any guns with plastic/synthetic stocks either.

      A pnuematic (whether it’s pre-charged, pcp, or a pumper) seems less affected since they shoot with less variation. I mostly shoot my multi shot pcp’s when it’s cold since I like to shoot as much as I can before my fingers get numb and a break barrel delays my shooting.

      Please note, all my shooting is targets and shots are one right after another. I’m not sure how a springer would react if you carried it for an hour while hunting in ten below temperatures before taking your first shot. I suspect its innards would be very stiff.

      kevin


  27. I hope someone can help me out with this. I live at 7,000 feet, which is great for hitting a golf ball a little farther but not so good for high velocities from a airgun. Is there a rule of thumb for what percentage of velocity is lost due to an increase in elevation? Seems like all of my guns shoot a little slower than they should. I don’t expect them to reach the advertised velocity. The spring guns seem to be affected more than the ones that use CO2. Thanks! Toby T.


    • Toby T.,

      Yes, springers and single pump (ssp’s) do lose velocity at altitude. Pneumatics and CO2 don’t. Of course with CO2 we assume the air temperature is constant for our lower elevation vs. higher elevation test. Hard to find increases in elevation without decreases in temperature compared to lower elevations…but I digress. At higher elevation a pcp gains velocity.

      The higher the elevation the lower the air density. Thin air at higher elevations. Less air to compress in a spring gun. You can compensate for the thin air with a multi-pump pneumatic by pumping additional times.

      Even at sea level you can’t expect your springer to reach advertised velocities since they’re commonly “hyped” for marketing purposes. I’m not inferring that manufacturers are lying but I believe they use 3.0 grain pellets for the velocity tests LOL! To answer your other question, how much velocity a springer loses depends on many factors but a good rule of thumb is a loss of 2 1/2% of muzzle energy per 1,000 feet of gain in elevation. If you want even greater detail, here’s one of my favorite articles on the subject:

      http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1256699564/Finally%2C+Springer+altitude+testing+completed+with+pics+and+decent+data+volume

      kevin



      • Kevin, Thanks for response, I appreciate it. Makes me feel better about the some of the guns I own. I don’t own a PCP but I think I will start to get serious about getting one. This high altitude issue is a perfect excuse. Thanks again! Toby


  28. Everyone,

    If B.B. isn’t on the road to Roanoke I’m sure he will be soon. Hope all you experienced airgunners will chime in and help to take some pressure off his undoubtedly short periods of time to answer questions.

    I’ve got a hectic travel schedule beginning tomorrow but vow to do what I can when I can.

    kevin


  29. B.B.,
    Thanks so much for reviewing this pistol. This gun really caught my attention the first time I saw it. Right off the top, I liked the ergonomics. The power was very good, but I wondered, is it accurate. I wouldn’t buy such a gun just on ergonomics or power, as it would have to be accurate.

    I own a Gamo Compact, and I’m reasonably happy with hit. From what I can tell, the accuracy is there, but I’m not too crazy about the grip, it’s too big for my hand along the horizontal, and just fits my hand along the vertical. I’m playing with putty (clay) to see if I can find just the right feel. The trick is to establish the ergonomics so that pulling the trigger does not cause the gun to pull up (or any other direction, really). With the Compact, I find that I have to move my hand forward, so part of what the putty will do is fill in the empty space at the rear of my hand, allowing my hand to sit forward.

    In any case, from visual inspection, the Webley-Alecto looks like it’s a better match for how I prefer to hold a pistol. How big are the grips compared to the Compact? When I hold the Compact full-grip, the front sight rises above the rear. Does that happen to you? If so, does this happen with the Alecto?

    I really look forward to your detailed report on this new pistol. It is already a pistol on my short list.

    Thanks,
    Victor


  30. Bristolview,

    I’ve been meaning to wonder why you haven’t considered one of the CO2 powder auto BB guns we’ve bee talking about on the blog. You might also ask Frankb what he thinks about using a Drodz since he has one.

    B.B., Enjoy the show and be safe on the road. Another no show for me. Daughter and dad are going to look at a college that Saturday

    Bruce


    • Bruce, I assume your comment relates to my previous mouse issue right? I have considered it actually, lots of options if I looked at BB firing guns. If I were in a barn or outside, I’d grab one of these in a second. Outside, I have very accurate rifles for the task, but that’s not really where the problem is. You’ll love this, the area I need to go in is underground in a series of cement tunnels. Ok, now consider crawling down a tunnel, various interactions with side tunnels joining, protrusions, etc and letting a Drozd open up. I’m thinking the BB’s bouncing around would be like rain. I’m also thinking that being in that steel rain storm with my face out front (crawling in tunnel) would be a bad idea. BB’s smacking cement is gonna cause bounce backs, and that’s why I want pellets over BB’s. Am I wrong?


  31. Anyone,
    I recently picked up a used .20 caliber R9 in 98% condition, the rifle was one of over 200 the seller owns.
    Now here’s the interesting part, when I asked him to list his favorites this was the response:
    In a PCP – FX or Air Arms, Springers – HW, and C02 – the QB line.

    Slinging,

    Pairing rifles and scopes is a lot like wine and food. The Leapers you have riding on that PW tuned R7 was what I had on my QB78…


  32. Bristolview,

    Let me share with you what worked for me as a kid gr owning up in Auburn and hunting around Cayuga Lake all year. My Crosman 140 never let me down. I’d suggest a Benjamin 392 with a Williams peep sight.

    Bruce


    • Bruce, the Crosman 140 looks like the Benjamin 392, are they the same? Yeah, the 392 is a nice rifle. I’ve thought about picking one up for years, but never have. Everyone seems to mention the longevity and durability of these; “never let me down” comments seem to be the norm. That says a lot. I may have to consider one. Thanks for the tip.

      (I’d really like to get an FX Super Swift, or FX Gladiator, but they aren’t in my budget today… or tomarrow… or…)


      • Bristolview,

        No they’re not the same guns, except for being multipump PCP’s–different valves. I had the Crosman 140 that I bought used in the late 50′s, resealed by Rick Willnecker and gave it to my oldest son. If I had stored that gun with one or two pumps of air, it probably never would have had to be resealed.

        Yes, by all means pick up a 392. if you can find a used one don’t pass it up, even if it doesn’t hold air cause Rick’s work is top notch and fairly priced.

        Bruce


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