by B.B. Pelletier
The TitanGP with lower velocity is a smooth shooter!
Okay, today I’m going to shoot the Crosman TitanGP with Nitro Piston through the chronograph. Boy, did we have a lot of discussion about this rifle in Part 1, and a lot of folks surprised when they realized that I was talking about an entirely different air rifle than the one they were commenting on. I tried to explain in the report that this is a very different rifle, but quite a few shooters were confused by the more powerful rifle that goes by the same name.
Crosman Corporation, are you reading this? People don’t like it when you name two different guns the same, any more than you would like it if they referred to a Crosman Pumpmaster 760 as a Red Ryder. You drove airgun collectors crazy when you named a Chinese spring piston rifle the Benjamin Super Streak, but in light of the whole Benjamin Sheridan brand name mix, I guess that’s water under the bridge. The point is that different airguns need different names so people can refer to them without getting confused.
However, you’re to be praised for developing this rifle! It’s one of the smoothest-shooting recoiling spring-piston air rifles it has ever been my pleasure to test. I believe it’s almost the equal of the Benjamin Legacy I raved about in the last report, only you built this one with more power. How much more is what we’re about to find out.
Crosman Premiers
The first pellet to be tested was the .22 caliber 14.3-grain Crosman Premier. When you think of Crosman airguns, you probably think of them shooting Premier pellets, certainly the spring-piston guns and pneumatics they make, anyway. I know I do. So, Premiers were the first to be tested. They gave an average velocity of 677 f.p.s. in my test rifle. The spread went from a low of 668 f.p.s. to a high of 684, so 16 f.p.s. overall. That’s not too bad, especially for a brand new rifle. The average muzzle energy works out to 14.56 foot-pounds.
RWS Hobbys
Next, I tried RWS Hobby pellets. At 11.9 grains, these are about the lightest lead pellet around. They averaged 724 f.p.s. and ranged from a low of 703 to a high of 742 f.p.s. That’s a 39 f.p.s. spread, but the one shot that went 703 was anomalous. The next-slowest shot went 715 f.p.s. That works out to an average muzzle energy of 13.85 foot-pounds.
RWS Superdomes
The final pellets I tried were RWS Superdomes. I have no axe to grind when selecting pellets to test, but I always try to test at least one of average or middle weight and one of very light weight. Only if the rifle is a magnum would I also test a real heavyweight, because I probably wouldn’t be inclined to use it in the rifle. This time I let Mac influence me. He’s been having such good luck with Superdomes, lately, that I had to include them in this test.
Those 14.5-grain pellets averaged 689 f.p.s., or 12 f.p.s. faster than the lighter Premiers. They also gave a super-tight 12 foot-second spread of 682 to 694 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 15.29 foot-pounds, which is very respectable! Remember, this gun cocks easier than a Beeman R7, so having this much power is a good thing!
Trigger
Several people have complained bitterly about the trigger in the TitanGP. I have to admit that it isn’t a great one, but it isn’t that bad, either. It just has too much second-stage pull that the shooter cannot cancel out. This pull has a lot of creep, which puts people off. I don’t know what can be done about this trigger, but it’s quite evident to me that many shooters are going to want something done about it.
Next, I’ll test accuracy for you. I’ll do it soon because I have major surgery coming up the end of November and will be unable to cock spring guns for a while following that.
And, now, for something completely different. Edith found this amazing video on YouTube. Watch it all the way. She no longer has any excuse when she complains that it’s hard to load rounds into her Glock mag.
Do you like the Titan more than the Bronco?
Tom,
The Titan and Bronco are guns with different features and purposes. The Bronco is for kids and is a casual plinker. It has open sights, so you can shoot without a scope.
The Titan is larger for adults only and can only be shot with a scope. So there really is no basis for comparison.
I guess what I’m saying is that I like them both, but for different reasons.
B.B.
Suppose for the moment you’re a an adult first time buyer. You’ve tested both, the Bronco with a similar scope as the Titan. All things being equal, which would you choose?
Thanks
Tom,
Okay here is what we are comparing. The Bronco is a .177-caliber low-powered plinker, while the Titan is a .22-caliber mid-powered rifle suitable for hunting.
That being understood, what do you, as a first-time buyer, want to do? If the answer is just shoot a lot to see what airgunning is all about, I would recommend the Bronco, because the pellets are cheaper and the rifle is more accurate than the Titan GP. But if you want to also hunt or to eliminate pests larger than mice, I would recommend the Titan GP, because of the extra power. The pellets for a .22, though, will cost you 30-60 percent more money than an equal number of good pellets for a .177.
I would buy the Bronco without a scope and just learn to shoot it with the open sights at first. Then I would buy a better scope than the one that comes with the Titan GP, which you will read my criticisms of in a couple of days.
The Bronco cocks easier, has a much better trigger and is more accurate. The Titan GP is more powerful and is a super-smooth shooter (though it’s had to be much smoother than the Bronco).
Both guns are great buys for the price, but I believe that the Bronco is a better rifle for general plinking and shooting.
B.B.
And the Titan GP is HEAVY!
Personnaly I don’t thinl you have much choice… Buy both (that’s what I did).
JF
Thanks for the great advice! I guess both is the answer unless you’d recommend a better
nitro .22 in this price/performance range?
Is there any possibility of converting the Bronco to Nitro piston?
Thanks!
Tom,
If you are so inclined, both these guns are well worth the price. I doubt the Bronco will ever get a gas spring like the Nitro Piston, because it is a youth gun. Gas springs are generally too hard for kids to cock. The Titan is easy because of the longer barrel, but the Bronco has a short barrel.
B.B.
B.B.
While I still don’t know for sure which one I have, I am only getting about 40-50fps more than yours does (with CP). Not much difference, but I think the cocking effort with mine is more.
Not enough velocity difference to make a hill of beans anyway.
twotalon
Of topic but-air rifle power depends on… well spring and power plant(air capacity) i know that but i wonder what else -is it piston (heavier or lighter?)?
Milan,
I have found that the weight of the piston, or at least the ability of the piston to not rebound, works best with heavier pellets. And the gas spring keeps rebounding to a minimum, so it acts like a heavyweight piston, even though it’s not.
B.B.
Thanks B.B. So what does this means for low powered air rifles like Slavia 620 ,can new piston and stronger spring make difference (i am thinking to buy one old Slavia )?
Milan,
No, the swept volume of the compression chamber is what determines the power. A stronger spring can weaken the gun, believe it or not.
A heavier piston might make a difference on a 620, though.
B.B.
Interesting stuff 🙂 ,thank you B.B.!
CJr …
Why did I wait so long to buy this Walther Lever Action…!!!???
Got the rifle on Friday, printed out a half dozen large bullseye targets (2″ white centers and 1″ red rings) thinking I would have to spend some time zeroing the open sights.
Set-up target at 10 meters, sat down in chair, cocked, aimed, fired, KA-CHING!, first pellet was within .25″ of dead center on the white bull! Holy Pelgunoil Batman, this one is a keeper!
Needless to say (but I will anyway) spent many hours this weekend shooting one of the nicest Co2 airguns I have ever shot.
Brian,
I am so glad to hear you’re pleased with your Lever Action. I always feel like I’m out on a limb when I rave about one of my guns. I’ve shot mine a lot recently because you made me get it out to answer some of your questions. Now, I want to enter it in an eMatch but I can’t get it to settle down. I think I let it sit too long.
It used to shoot Hobbys in the same hole but now I’m getting a 1/2″ flyer out of every five shots. I strongly suspect a defective scope. The scope in the picture in my previous comment I bought at a gun show because it was skinney and zoomed to 7x but I fear now it’s been previously abused. Plus, it seems to have parallax issues. That doesn’t help matters, for sure.
I’m interested in what pellet you settle on.
Now, you have to go here and make one of these:
http://www.airgunhome.com/agforum/viewtopic.php?t=5498
I bought something similar from PA (I think) a while back that loads seven clips at a time but I don’t see it on their site now. Maybe I’m not searching right because the same clips are used in several different guns and it’s definitely a handy thing to have.
-Chuck
CJr… Shot Gamo Match all weekend, mostly because I have a few 1000 of e’m. Will try the RWS R10 pellets next, they seem to be more accurate than Gamo in a couple of pistols I have (one and two hole groups).
I have a scope mount coming this week but, at 10 meters I like the challenge of the open sights. Will probably mount a 2-7 x 40 AO off one of the other rifles to start with and then play from there.
One thing I notice about the cheek-weld (or lack of) on this western style stock, I find myself consciously leaning into the top of the stock to get in position for good alignment of the sights. Not a lot, but some. Guess I have been spoiled with the other rifles that all have a full swell at the cheek-weld and high mounts for the scopes, e.g. my HW97K, et al.
Will report back here as I get more results including Chrony data.
Looks like that little Walther speedloader is discontinued everywhere.
Oh ya, forgot to mention, got about 60-64 good shots with the Lever Action, shooting in approx 60 deg F garage (37 F outside!). So right in line with BB’s and others reports on shot count with 2x Co2 carts.
I’m guessing that the new 88 gram/airsource Lever Action model will get 160-180 shots? 88gr is 3.66 x more juice but won’t be exactly 3.66 x more shots.
CJr said..”It used to shoot Hobbys in the same hole but now I’m getting a 1/2″ flyer out of every five shots. I strongly suspect a defective scope.”
Is that scope mount staying put? I have heard that they rock a little due to the single screw mount?
Brian,
No, it seems as solid as can be. I did have to grind down the front of the bracket so it would quit shooting too high. I put 12 of the eight shot mags through my LA yesterday over 45 minutes and the fps stayed above 600 for eight mags then entered the 500 range and stayed there for three then on the last one the poi started dropping on the first shot. That’s about 30 seconds per shot with time to reload and check targets and hang new ones.
-Chuck
Morning BB and fellow Bloggers,
BB, your velocity figures match what my Nitro XL Trail spits out. I’m at work now so I can’t give you precise numbers. I was probably one of those that complained about the trigger – I’ve never experienced this level of creep before. I also sent my scope back to Crosman as it was shooting way low with no way to adjust to POA other than some serious shimming of the rear scope ring. The GRTIII trigger from Charliedatuna pretty much removes most of the creep. There is a minor amount still there but you have to really concentrate to feel it but it’s light years ahead of the product from Crosman as shipped. It doesn’t reduce trigger pull and Charlie aka Bob states it’s not recommended to go further into the trigger assembly and change any springs.With Charlie’s trigger, there is almost a complete absence of stage I and I’m not sure if some adjustment can be dialed in for this. I think a high trigger pull is mandatory for safety reasons with this set-up.
Fred PRoNJ
Fred,
I haven’t installed my GRT-III trigger yet, but definitely agree that the heavy pull is a good idea for safety reasons. This is a powerful gun! Saftey is critical with it!
Victor
BB
Regarding the video. How long do you think it will be before the PC crowd starts objecting to the term hand gun?
SL,
Very funny! I bet the shooter has thought of that already. Where would he put a holster for his footgun?
B.B.
I guess a shoulder holster is out of the question. Your mention of holsters got me thinking about his quick-draw skills too.
I am a sick, sick man.
In all seriousness, I admire the man’s determination. It reminds me of the excellent movie “My Left Foot” starring Daniel Day Lewis. Very inspirational. BTW Mr. Day Lewis will be portraying Abraham Lincoln in a movie directed by Spielberg. Should be interesting.
Very interesting. A .22 caliber break barrel that has a so so trigger, is relatively easy to cock, shoots smoothly and spits out crosman premiers with an average velocity of 677 fps. That describes my FWB 127. My FWB 127 has a JM Everest kit installed and shoots premiers at an average of 660 fps. As everyone knows the FWB 124/127 trigger is so so. Mine came with the drop in replacement from macarri and was a dramatic improvement.
Have you Crosman Titan GP owners found a way to improve this trigger or is there an aftermarket replacement that provides improvement?
kevin
Kevin,
The Titan GP is on the list of supported rifles for the GRT-III trigger upgrade. My GRT-III just arrived in the mail.
Victor
Victor,
Thank you very much for that info. I didn’t even think to check on the GRT III since I think this Titan GP is so new. Must have one of the older Crosman triggers installed??? Be very interested in knowing how it fits and how the rifle performs after it’s installed.
kevin
Kevin,
look several responses above from yours and you’ll see I commented on my results with the GRTIII trigger. I’m still experimenting with the rifle as I have a Red Dot on it (scope sent back to Crosman because the POI was 4″ lower than POA at maximum adjustment at 29′ and needed shimming) looking for that accurate pellet. H & N’s might be the answer but more testing is needed.
Fred PRoNJ
Kevin,
You know, I don’t have a clue as to how big this air-gun market is, but I have observed that these air-gun manufacturers don’t exactly move at light-speed, when it comes to “new or improved” products.
My guess is that the market isn’t exactly so “Mainstream”, where the competition and customer demands are pressing manufacturers to push the envelope. I can CLEARLY see some VERY OBVIOUS improvements and options that simply don’t exist!
If you ask me, CharlieDaTuna got it right by taking advantage of this HUGE VOID with his GRT-III trigger product. I can clearly see other offerings by 3rd party sources for things like adaptors so that peep sights could be added to the front of most springers. Given a choice, I’d much rather use target sights (front and back aperture) than a scope. I’d use these target sights on all of my springers (CF-X, Quest 1000X, Titan GP, etc.).
IF ANYONE OUT THERE IS LISTENING, please make adaptors so that front aperture sights can be added to rifles like the Gamo CF-X, Crosman Quest 1000X, or the Crosman Titan GP.
Victor
That video of the guy loading and shooting with his feet was amazing !!!
Have a question for B.B. or any readers that want to answer……. I thought there was a review on the chinese made beeman coated pellets but I can’t find it anywhere…… Could somebody tell me if these are made at the same place as the Industry Brand pellets ??
Was also wondering what the coating was made of and will these hurt or foul my barrel up ???
Thank you in advance!!
David,
I sure don’t know where there is a review like that.
For the most part coated pellets don’t actually harm the barrel, they just gunk it up. Plastic-sheathed pellets are the worst for this. I don’t know what the Beeman/Chinese pellets are coated with.
B.B.
Slinging Lead,
I’ve read and/or heard about school districts where elementary kids have gotten in trouble for making a “gun shape” with their hand, pointing it at someone and going bang bang. But, there are songs being played on the radio and TV with lyrics that would have gotten me fed a bar of ivory soap if I had used them where my Mom could hear me. Also at the very least the DJ would be unemployed probably before that record stopped spinning.
Good morning Mr. B
The school districts you are referring to are probably the same ones that send a student home for wearing a T shirt with the American flag on it. The inmates are truly running the asylum. I don’t know how it is in your neck of the woods, but you should see how bitterly they fight for school board positions out here. They would rather let a county lose its accreditation than stop their political infighting. But hey, I guess they have the best interests of the students at heart, dontcha think?
Yup…it gets pretty ridiculous these days.
Last year my sons grade 3 teacher asked me to instruct the boys not to talk about their sessions at the shooting range in school lest it make some of the other students uncomfortable.
Good freakin’ grief!!
CowBoyStar Dad,
Are these fragile kids the same ones who’ll be killing people by the thousands on their video games? The same ones who watch people being slaughtered in the most gruesome ways on TV shows?
I already know the answers.
Edith
Oh Boy, here we (I) go…!
And don’t forget the “war-games” with Airsoft guns.
Great training for only shooting at what you intend to kill.
Maybe the baseball hat on backwards and the AC/DC tee shirt is really body armor?
I seriously think a show and tell day is in order! You know, safety and all that…
ka
Holy Toledo Batman! Now I think I have seen it all. What next? A quadriplegic shooting with his teeth?
Wow! Just goes to show how extremely lucky we are. To have all our facilities and live in a country where firearms are allowed and not much restrictions except in some really backward states like Illinois, California and the likes.
On a different note, just traded for a S & W 78G which had been converted to .177 caliber by one of the previous owners. Have always wanted one of those S&W model 41 look a likes! It shoots at around 510 fps avg and I get 40 – 50 good shots with it. Accuracy is about what BB got with the one he reviewed. But my eyes are not what they used to be and so shooting iron sights isn’t the most accurate way for me any more. BB said it was more accurate than a 2240. Well I scoped my 2240 and it was a one hole gun at 10 meters. The S & W might well be if I could scope it also.
Thanks to BB and other shooters here who suggested I trade for the Sumatra I always wanted. It has become my favorite gun to shoot already. And that trade lead to two more trades this last month. This modified 78G I traded for a Tech Force 59 and a Gamo 4 X 32 scope with no rings. I no longer shoot the TF 59 since I got the Crosman Storm XT so it was expendable. And the Gamo scope has not been used in at least 5 – 7 years!
So now I have 3 guns I will shoot traded for 3 that would have been safe queens for years to come. And thanks to these guns I now shoot almost every day instead of around 2 times per week before!
Thanks guys. And if any of you have safe queens you don’t shoot for what ever reason, put a wtt ad on yellow forum. You never know what you might find!
Another Topic
BB,
A funny thing happened on my way to purchase the Challenger 2009. I made a right turn and bought a “mint condition FWB 601 in original box” for what I would have paid for the Challenger + hand pump.
Finding a FWB 601 in excellent condition (from Jim Edmundson) for a good price ($780) was a deal I couldn’t resist. Your advise about looking at obsolete match rifles and seizing the golden moment gave me the incentive to do just that. I NOW HAVE MY DREAM MATCH RIFLE!!!
I know you will understand why I cannot do the “vise test” for the Challenger 2009 I promised you.
You and Edith are in my prayers. Hope your medical condition is finally fixed.
Thank you for your good advise.
Stingray
Stingray,
Now that is a very happy ending, indeed. Of course I understand about the guest blog.
Of course you could always tell us how much you like your dream 601! 🙂
B.B.
Congrats!!
Great match rifle!!!
Edith / BB
What’s the chances of the PA management team, or the “Big Boss” giving us a guest blog on PA 2011 or… what’s new or going to be new in 2011 at PA?
As an example; the recent Compasseco purchase must mean that PA will now be servicing those guns? And on that subject, what are the gunsmithing or airgun services offered by PA? Maybe that can be a topic as well along with some comments on parts that are available (but aren’t obvious on-line) like my recent purchase of HW97 breech seals? How about PA expectations at SHOT 2011? The SHOT show is always an interesting topic.
I think that most folks on here will appreciate a look inside PA for 2011 and any other news or updates.
Thanks
Brian,
I forwarded your comments to the “big boss.” We’ll see what he says.
B.B.
Speaking of PA giving us a glimpse inside the world of airgun retailing, I heard that HW recently sent out a letter advising that there is going to be an increase in the price of Weihrauch’s. If true, how much time we have to buy a new Weihrauch at the old prices would be good to know.
kevin
Kevin,
The Weihrauch increase is expected to be small. Pyramyd AIR has not yet formulated how much of an increase, if any, they will make in response to this.
Of course if the increase is larger, then they will have to respond accordingly.
B.B.
That’s quite a video. Painful and prehensile. But I don’t see how he could work the slide. Regarding the M1 Garand, I’ve liked material objects before but have never been attached quite like this.
Kevin, thanks for your ideas about measuring the weight of my Anschutz trigger. Sounds like it would work although I bet that even a paperclip would set off this trigger.
PeteZ, what a surprise, a defense of S.L.A. Marshall from someone I respect. 🙂 I read your reference. I’ll admit that there are complexities to the fire ratio that I had overlooked. I had assumed that the question was who was pulling a trigger at all as opposed to who was firing effectively. In the latter case, the numbers would certainly go down although the language of the article seems to go with the first interpretation. Also, now that I think about it, a 100% fire rate which is sort of implicit in the very notion of percentages would be unrealistic given terrain, faulty equipment, and the fact that there may not be any targets visible to fire at. So as a single statistic for many different situations, an optimum rate of fire for infantry is probably well below 100% which would put the rate of actual trigger pulling, whatever it might be, in a different light.
Nevertheless, I remain skeptical about S.L.A. Marshall. The article, even without having read its extensive list of sources, has some problems. The guy claims that low firing ratios like Marshall’s have been documented all the way back to ancient times. I don’t see how this could be since they were not using firearms back then and all the people who could have been interviewed (Marshall’s research methodology) are long dead. The supposed reluctance of ancient peoples to kill is simply not true in view of plenty of evidence that is available. There is plenty of this in the Bible e.g. “All day long Joshua mowed down Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.” And ancient armies made a common practice of annihilating besieged cities and everyone in it when they did not drag them off to slavery. The Romans lost 60,000 men in a single afternoon at the Battle of Cannae. In the lesser known Battle of Towton (1461) in the War of the Roses, 28,000 men were lost in a single day, England’s bloodiest day on record, and most were not killed in the heat of battle but when they were running away or captured. The author claims that the American Civil War had low firing ratios like Marshall claims. Manifestly not true. Casualty rates in the Civil War averaging about 30% of those engaged were far higher than the World Wars which had about 10%. Without repeating weapons, there must have quite a few soldiers in the Civil War willing to operate their weapons. The article also claims that the only people who criticize Marshall are armchair historians as opposed to combat soldiers like him. However, the late Col. David Hackworth is on record as saying how he was delighted to meet Marshall whom he idolized in Vietnam but was pretty disgusted with him after seeing him operate. Incidentally, I was surprised and privileged to get a personal email from Hackworth shortly before he died. He was replying to my question about the effectiveness of the AR-15 and gave a pretty low opinion of it. “Consistent jammer” is what he said.
The article seems to support Marshall out of a deeper desire to promote more realistic training methods such as silhouette and pop-up targets which will instill a killer instinct. This doesn’t seem plausible to me either. If the reluctance to kill is really so deeply engrained as to persist from antiquity, I can’t believe that the use of a blob-like picture of a human figure with pop-up capabilities for a target can overcome all that. My Dad recalls shooting such pop-up targets to qualify with the M1 in 1960. At first, he didn’t hit anything because he detested the army experience. But when he was told that he would probably fail to qualify and have to repeat basic training, he got motivated and studied the eight steady-hold factors. This and not a desire to kill allowed him to hit the targets well enough to be on his way to expert until the sun caught the targets and blinded him. He also missed a lot of short targets–I suspect because of a holdover problem since he said he hit all of the targets at 300 yards. Anyway, the killer instinct was not much in evidence.
I’m suspicious too of the larger point, that people really have such deep inhibitions against killing. This seems like a big inference on Marshall’s part. Plenty of evidence suggests that apart from some people who, according to U.S. Grant are just temperamentally unsuited to soldiering, regardless of their character, it is actually frighteningly easy for the veneer of civilization to slip away and for people to kill and harm. War memoirs of which I have read many are united in saying that after the first incident of killing or seeing a dead body, most become desensitized. Senator Daniel Inouye, winner of the Medal Honor, has recalled how he was a good shot with an M1 and would show off for his friends by shooting enemy soldiers in the head although he is terribly guilty about it now. There is also the memory of the famous Stanford experiments which were widely cited around the time of the Abu Ghraib prison scandals which showed how barbaric people can be with little provocation. When they thought they were not being unobserved, certain subjects in charge of other subjects apparently went berserk and abused them for the fun of it.
Notwithstanding the cases of PTSD coming out of the ongoing wars, I’m not sure that our soldiers today have less inhibitions about killing than before. Much of what I read having to do with civilian deaths and collateral damage actually indicates an incredible restraint on the part of our troops in the circumstances of war. There is an account in Blackhawk Down of a Ranger trying to decide whether to shoot a woman dressed in purple among a crowd of hostiles until she pulled a gun on him. Has any army in history shown more restraint than the U.S. military engaged now? My belief is that a killer instinct has more to do with the severity of training than with pop-up targets and by that reckoning, our current soldiers who apparently have more difficulty than ever meeting physical standards because of their sedentary computer lifestyles are probably less rather than more aggressive than their predecessors.
So, I am in favor of more realistic training methods but would certainly be willing to argue with the author of the article about Marshall. The fact is that I would like the author’s job as a military historian. 🙂 And I maintain utter confidence in the effectiveness of the 1911 in all conditions.:-)
Matt61
Matt,
Give me an e-mail and we can take this off line rather than tying up BBs bandwidth.
peter [dot] zimmerman [at] cox [dot] net reaches me.
Matt61, see if you can find a copy of the book, “On Killing” by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. He covers this whole subject in detail. One thing he notes is that training methods makes a difference, like using human shaped targets. Also, Bruce Lee said, “You fight like you train.” It’s still true today.
Mike
Hi one and all. I’m usually an armchair looker, listener (reader) until i see or hear something i can relate to. The Crosman Titan GP, i can give a glimpse on. Mine handles, shoots pretty nice. Velocities from it are as follows: 10 ea. : 14.4gr JSB Exact 609-624 ave 616mv 12.1me 27yard (i know, odd distance) groups ave under 1″…………. 11.9gr Hobby’s 733-738 (nice) ave 736mv 14.3me 3/4″ groups even out to 37yards ………….. 12.2gr Beeman Silver Bear HP 759-769 ave 764mv 15.8me 1″ groups at 27yd
…and i’ve shot many other pellets, Premiers, Beeman Round nose, Beeman Pointed, Gamo Hunters (these were shot before i got my Chrony) and all shot nice 1″ and under groups. The Gamo Hunters shot 3/4″ out to 37yards and the Beeman Round nose quickly harvested a couple of 20yd rabbits for the skilled.
That’s all i know
p.s. I got the .20 HW77K on the pr-owned site, now the Weihrauch’s can go up
Shawn
Hey Shawn, glad you are here and adding your data/info.
What other airguns do you have/shoot and come on back with more feedback or questions.
I have my old trusty “Blue Streak”………a Tech Force 34 in .177 …………of course my Crosman Titan .22 ……… a Browning 800 mag in .22 ………. an old Sheridan “E” model in .20 CO2…….. and my newly acquired HW77 in .20 (before the prices go up)………..other than a handful of Handguns from 454 down to 7mmBr i might have enough to keep me out of trouble or even protect myself.
Kinda off topic, but the HW77 i got said it’s rated at 820fps. After shooting it with 100 pellets thru it, my best vel is only 670 with Kod FTS 11.9gr. I called PA and i guess i’m suppose to 1) clean it with JB’s 2) put several hundred pellets thru it 3) send back to have it resealed before the warranty is out. Any thoughts before i start with #1?
Shawn
Hi Shawn,
The performance I got from my Titan GP seems to match your numbers, although my testing was much less formal. I was actually surprised that it was such a smooth shooter. Sounds like you’ve generated some pretty good numbers that speak to its accuracy.
Victor
Shawn the Locksmith and pirouge,
A hearty welcome to both of you and a thank you for posting. Don’t be strangers or lurkers all the time. Let us know how and what you all are up to.
Bruce
B.B.,
I’m very pleased that you are giving the Titan GP its dues by reviewing it here. Coupled with the GRT-III trigger, it will provide great value for it’s relatively low cost (I payed $149.00). It’s my first .22 air-rifle, and I wouldn’t have it any other caliber.
One thing that I learned about shooting the Titan GP with the stock trigger is that it’s not the kind of trigger that you squeeze too slowly. As my pistol coach, Stan Hulstrom, would say, your squeeze must be “deliberate”.
In the end, you want your execution to be such that your sight alignment is not lost because of your hands action. In particular, with the Titan, I found hand placement to be extremely important, and not what I expected. The thumb-hole stock allowed me to drop my hand very low, which also allowed my trigger squeeze to not disturb my aim. This is why I loved the thumb-hole stock on this rifle. This is also why it performed so well for me my first time out with it.
Thanks,
Victor
While I can’t adjust my hand position at all with the thumbhole and my finger is stuck in one position only, this may be good for me. No variability in trigger hand hold.
Too slow of a trigger squeeze can cause problems, particularly with such a long trigger. You start spending too much time on the trigger squeeze and lose control of concentration.
Pulling right through in one smooth motion works best for me.
twotalon
Twotalon,
What I did was dropped my hand so that some of it was hanging below the grip, and not gripping the stock. Depending on the size of your hand, you might try dropping 1 (your pinkie), or maybe even two fingers. Of course, this might not do a thing for you, as it did for me. It worked best when I was out in the field shooting objects at longer distances. I spent less time shooting in my back yard at targets, so I don’t remember how I gripped the thing.
When I was shooting outdoors, I was in a semi-offhand position, where my elbow was touching a rifle case that sat on top of my cars trunk. For whatever reason, the rifle felt just right to me. I was hitting whatever I aimed at, including 12 gauge shotgun shells at about 90 feet. Because the rifle’s performance exceeded my expectations, I was really caught up in the moment and just had a LOT of fun. I simply didn’t notice the rifles flaws so much, including the trigger. However, I must say that the flaws were significantly more noticeable when I tried it in my back yard to shoot targets.
I guess this is why we have “target rifles” versus “plinking rifles”. I’d take the Titan GP out in the field to plink, any day. However, the next time I do, it will have the GRT-III trigger, so I’m sure I’ll enjoy it even more. I may even change how I hold the grip.
Victor
One last thing, since I’m new to this world of springers, I wouldn’t exactly say that I have a “refined” or sophisticated appreciation of springers yet. Maybe after I try a higher end rifle like the Beeman HW97K or the TX200 MkIII, I’ll feel different about the Titan GP.
So far springers are a totally new kind of animal to me. It still blows me away when I find that I can shoot one better in a semi-off-hand (only elbow touching) position than I can using a rest of some kind! I still haven’t figured out how to effectively use a rest (vice or bags). For sure, I get lousy results when I allow anything but my body to touch the rear stock. The best I can do is use the open palm of my left hand under the forearm of the stock.
Victor,
I think I may write a special report titled, “Is anyone out there listening?” because it sure seems to me that they are often asleep at the wheel. There are other factors that you have not mentioned, though. One of them is the “way-cool” selling points that some of these “flawed” airguns continue to exhibit. If people didn’t buy 1,400 f.p.s. air rifle manufacturers wouldn’t continue to make them. And the trigger is one item you never get to try before buying. So there are sales points that are structured to sell airguns to a different crowd than you or I.
But I like the idea of a report on this subject. I created both the Benjamin Discovery rifle and the Diana drooper scope base that Leapers now makes on this very basis.
B.B.
B.B.,
I agree that manufacturers are somewhat clueless about anything that isn’t marketing. They develop products at a snails pace, so we’re really talking an “evolutionary pace”. They are primarily interested in “what sells”, like a higher FPS, even it that’s not where the focus needs to be.
You know, a product that lets you do more with it, will get you to do more with it. If a rifle is not a good shooter, then lots of customers will get bored with it much sooner. This is why some markets don’t expand as we know they should. Who doesn’t like shooting and hitting their mark? Everyone loves this experience! But when most buy a product that simply doesn’t do it’s job easy enough, they just throw the whole subject away, and never return. That, and ignorance, are why the shooting market doesn’t explode like it should.
In effect, they are selling air-guns as higher-end sling-shots. Just get that projectile flying faster and faster!
Victor
This Low velocity Titan is being offered in .177 caliber here in southern Illinois. Rated at 695fps. Anyone shot one of these yet? Sounds like it would be a sweet little plinker. I cannot find any info on this or reviews of rifle with a similar power plant. BB heard or seen this one yet? Anything comparable out there to it/
Brian
Brian,
No, I haven’t heard of the .177. But if Crosman is selling it in Illinois, it has to be legal.
I bet it’s a pussycat, too.
B.B.
Titan GP trigger. I appreciate the comments on the length of pull and heaviness. I’d be holding the target and concentrating on the pull and thinking,,,,”OK,,,its gonna release sometime now.” It is good training to learn to shoot something like that, I guess. For me it just wasn’t what I would call predictable.
I’ve taken the trigger apart three times polishing the sears and pivot points and that has helped a lot,,,BUT,,,what I just did helped me a WHOLE lot. I found a way to shorten the second stage to the point of predictability. It lengthens the first stage as well. Its still a heavy trigger but in my opinion this is WAY better,,,has improved my accuracy with this gun,,,which I love this gun.
I know there will be some who say,,,be careful,,,very easy to make the gun unsafe that way. But here is what I did,,,very simple,,only costs 20 cents and requires to only take off the trigger guard: I replaced the adjusting screw (size M-3) with the next length longer as found in the box of screws at my Ace Hardware store – which is about twice as long as the original. Its very easy.
Yes it will be possible with that long of a screw to adjust the sears so they won’t engage at all making it unsafe,,,,but this is an adult air rifle and with caution it can be made to be a sweet trigger. I am very happy with this trigger now.
neric,
That’s a great suggestion! I’m sure a lot of owners will want to try it.
Maybe you should post it on the current page, as well?
B.B.
I just got the GP. I put my Leapers Accushot 3-12X44 with 30mm Med 3/8 dove tail rings. I am lucky to be hitting a piece of paper at 25 yards. The elevation is at its lowest and I’m still having to mil dot high to come close to my target, plus its still shooting everywhere. I’m using Crosman premiers. I have read that the RWS superdomes have better response. I just ordered new “high” rings hoping this will help. Anybody have any ideas? I know there is a 100 shot break in, but this is crazy. Did I just get a bad gun?? Help please!!!
Spike,
The Titan GP Lower Velocity is a very good rifle. But yours sounds like someone has let the barrel slam shut from the open position, bending it upward. First try reversing the rings, as Fred suggests. That can really have an affect.
If that doesn’t correct the situation, I suggest you arrange to return this rifle for an exchange.
B.B.
Spike,
first try to reverse the rings. Perhaps the mounts you are using aren’t symmetrical. It happens. Next, if that doesn’t work, put a shim in the front scope ring mount. Most folks use film negative strips but, this being a disappearing commodity, a piece of plastic cut from a soda bottle may do just as well.
As for lack of accuracy, the Nitro’s are not the most accurate rifle Crosman puts out. If you’re getting 1 to 2″ groups at 25 yards, that’s about par for this rifle. On the other hand, are you certain your scope isn’t broken and the recticle isn’t moving or bouncing around? You may have the elevation adjustment so far unscrewed that the reticle may be able to move on its’ own. Try putting the adjustment back to it’s mechanical center and then, pick an aim point and see how a group of pellets impact. We know it’s going to be very high but for now, let’s see how the rifle groups.
Hope this helps. As I recall, this rifle doesn’t come with fixed sights so we can’t try shooting the rifle that way, yes? Finally, you posted to a blog that’s over a year and a half old and very few of us monitor these oldies. We always welcome off-topic questions on the current days’ blog and I suggest you re-post there as your question will be exposed to thousands of very experienced shooters.
Good Luck
Fred DPRoNJ
Thank you guys for the help. I new to this blog and glad you guys saw it. I was going to put the original scope and rings that came with the gun and see if that works. If the gun fires good with that, then I’ll know it’s the low scope rings on my Leapers scope. The scope is fairly new only a few months old and has only been on my .177, so I would like to think that it is operating normally. Ill do the swap today and see how she does. I’ll keep ya posted. Thanks for the help!! Oh another question: barrel maintenance, brush? Swabs? Touch of crosman oil? Nothing is mentioned in the manual. Thanks again!!
Spike,
It’s not necessary to ever clean your barrel unless accuracy suffers. I have pellet rifles with tens of thousands of shots that have never been cleaned.
B.B.
Hello B.B.P.
My leapers high mount rings came in, same results, very low shots. I tried shimming like you said. It helped on the first couple of shots then I was off the paper again. So, now I’m thinking scope issue. I got a hold of Leapers and sent the scope out yesterday. Have you heard of people having to use barrel droop compensation rings for higher end scopes with this rifle? I’m so upset with these scope issues!!lol. The 4x $10.00 scope that came with this rifle is hitting better than this 3-12x $120 scope. When I get this scope back from Leapers (AccuShot 3-12×44 SWAT 30mm). What should I do about the ring situation? Do I need to go to a 3/8 Dovetail-to-Picatinny rail adaptor with a drop comp? Mount the scope under the rifle? Or just JB weld 2 bb’s for iron sites….hahahaa!! I’m new in the air gunner game, I am really thankful for all of your help and advice. Thanks again.
I put the crappy 4x scope on with their rings. Started sighting at 5 yards then 10, 15, 20, 25 and finialy at 28. (the length of my range). I could not believe the adjustments I had to make at each distance. But at the end I was hitting nice 1″, 1 1/2″ groups. The hard part was at that range with a 4x scope that is out of focus (really suprized what a piece of junk this scope is, why Crosman is using it is beyond me) is really hard to focus on a target that appears to be miles away. But I am pleased that it wasn’t the gun and now hoping its the rings and not my Leapers scope. The new ones are on order and as soon as they get here I’ll go thru the same process and hope there isn’t a problem with this new scope.
Hopefully they’ll get here soon. I’ll keep ya posted. Thanks for your help and advice. I’m looking forward to being able to see my target down range, haha. Thanks again guys
Spike,
You are answering your questions faster than I can!
The cost of the gun has noting to do with whether it’s a drooper or not. Every airgun can droop. Many firearms droop, as well, but people aren’t as aware of them as they are airguns because they shoot them at such long ranges.
You do need droop-compensating scope rings.
B.B.