by B.B. Pelletier
Blog reader Vince is back with another fantastic tale of gunsmithing, gun renovation and making parts. No matter who you are, you just can’t help but learn something new from him. Settle back and have a good read about the Beeman GT600 Vince bought.
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Take it away, Vince!
by Vince
Once upon a time, there was a highly educated airgun enthusiast and business man named Dr. Robert Beeman. He imported airguns and was determined to import nothing but the finest mass-produced guns he could obtain. He eventually associated himself with, perhaps, the premier airgun factory in Germany for the sole purpose of developing and bringing the best of the best to the blessed U.S. shores. After some years of success, he took a well-deserved retirement and sold his business to a large conglomerate of sporting goods.
The End.
Well, not quite. The large conglomerate knew that there was considerable marketing value – and, let’s admit it, snobbishness – attached to the Beeman name. Since making a little money lots of times can be more profitable than making lots of money little times, increasing the volume of Beeman sales via popularly priced models became something of a corporate priority. To their credit, the original Beeman models were kept, but the line would have to be expanded to include guns priced well under the level of the famed R-series that built the Beeman reputation. While Robert Beeman also imported some moderately priced non-German guns, the new owner of the Beeman company expanded the selection immensely.
Enter Norica
Norica had a respectable name in airgunning, with a reputation for reasonable build quality and longevity. No, they weren’t Weihrach, but they certainly weren’t junk. The large conglomerate, still paying some due respect to the Beeman reputation, started bringing in a number of Norica models to round out the line and appeal to a more cost-conscious clientele without totally trashing the Beeman name.
Thus, the Spanish Beemans came into being: the S1, GS, GH and GT series along with some others that I don’t know about. After all, I’m no Beeman expert. These guns generally seemed to be well accepted by even semi-serious shooters although, you know, they weren’t REAL Beemans (just like the 914s and 924s of the 1970s weren’t REAL Porsches). But, it was acknowledged that they weren’t too out of place in the Beeman lineup.
What were they like? My first Norica Beeman was an S1, the predecessor to the GS950/1000 series that eventually got cloned in China as the AR1000 (that’s a whole ‘nuther story). I found that the S1 was pretty accurate, had fair power, a REALLY NICE trigger and some rather unfortunate wood shaping. Wavy is the best way to describe it. Even though Beeman was inscribed on the compression tube, that stock (which made a Gamo 440 stock look like a custom piece of craftsmanship) just killed the whole effect. A real Beeman it obviously wasn’t.
That S1 stuck around for a while before I decided to sell it off and move on. I was young (45!), silly and all hung up on velocity. That S1 had the nerve to shoot 7.9-grain Crosman Premier pellets at under 900 fps. I’ve matured considerably since then (Yes! Really!). Since moving, I find that I have to do all my shooting indoors. I’m more interested in moderately powered guns, and I started hanging around the classifieds a lot more than is generally healthy. Worse than smoking? Harder to quit? Perhaps. I foolishly passed on a reasonably priced Gamo Gamatic (waited too long), but a Beeman GT600 caught my eye.
The Beeman GT600 is dressed better than my old S1. Maybe they’re just trying to boost its self-esteem!
Beeman logo on the Norica air rifle.
The GT600 is a relatively lightweight rifle and is in the R7 or TF49 category for weight and power. Not quite a youth rifle, but certainly suitable for mid-teens as well as adults. Right off the bat, I could recognize one aspect of the Norica design — from the shape of the stock around the triggerguard, it was obvious that the GT600 had that Norica trigger. As opposed to the Norica trigger. You see, the trigger (the one that Shanghai cloned for the AR1000) is a fairly involved 4-lever affair that, with proper adjustment (and maybe a little stoning), can be tuned into the sweetest pullin’ thing this side of a Rekord. That trigger, on the other hand, is as bad as the trigger is good. It’s a direct-sear — and without an awful lot of leverage, I might add. It’s the same trigger that shamed the Shanghai-built Beeman SS1000H and dragged down the Hämmerli Storm (also a Norica product).
GT600-style trigger above, GS-style trigger below.
But the price was certainly tempting. The seller was getting rid of it for $100 shipped, and that included a soft case and a 3-12x40AO Barska airgun scope. Besides, with the lower spring pressures of the GT600, maybe the direct sear wouldn’t be too bad. So PayPal went out, UPS came in and I got my GT600.
Yup. Those classifieds can be as bad as smoking. Especially, when you buy a gun from an avid smoker. The stench made it real annoying to shoot that first evening…heck, even the scope smelled! I figured the soft case is a lost cause; I’ll leave it hanging up for about 5 years and see if it gets any better. But, I hoped that metal, finished wood and glass wouldn’t be real tenacious when it came to holding onto that Marlboro Man smell.
In any event, smell or no smell, those first few shots revealed plenty of that endearing Spanish buzziness. While I’m waiting for the gun to de-odify, I’ll tear it down and give it the usual going over.
Stay tuned for part 2, which you’ll see tomorrow, for an in-depth look at the innards of the GT600.
Morning Vince,
From the looks of it, you are being very kind in your comments about “that” trigger. I had a Whamo crossbow pistol who’s trigger looked better than this one.
Actually I’m waiting to hear how you worked it over and turned it into a decent or not too bad a trigger.
Bruce
Howdy Hey Vince!
Nice writing as usual… your always fun and informative to read.
Is there any relationship to our favorite low price point RWS 92?
He’s going in folks.. where no other wise man dare to tread.. Vince enters with wild abandon!
Will he come out alive? … and all his fingernails??
Wacky Wayne
Nope. There are some superficial resemblances, but that’s about it. Both can be very accurate, but I’d still (generally) put Norica a notch below Cometa.
Vince,
Congrats on the purchase.Check your local pet store and ask for a product called Skunk Kleen. We sold a lot of it in our pet store in Canada during summer months-the dogs had a ball chasing skunks right up to the point when they got sprayed. Then it was game over. Should work on second hand smoke.
Might be worth a try.
Pete
Hello,
I have been looking to buy some more skunk kleen and can not find it anywhere in canada. By any chance are you located in toronto? if not would you be able to ship some to me or maybe point me in a direction where I could find some?
ndh063@yahoo.ca
thank you,
Neil
Question!
Is the Rekord trigger really as good as I hear? Every site I’ve checked out says that it is the greatest trigger one can get. If it is really that good, Where can I get one and what can I install it on? As far as I know, all the triggers on the guns I have seem like they don’t even compare to the Rekord.
Thanks in advanced,
Shellshock
Shellshock,
Yes, the Rekord trigger is THAT GOOD!! Had a Beeman R9 with one and it was THE trigger to compare all others.
I now have a Crosman Storm XT I got from Wal-Mart for $54.95 before tax, and I managed with a lot of patience, some stones, and a CDT GRT III drop in replacement to get that trigger pretty close to feeling like a Rekord.
Notice I said “pretty close”. In my opinion there is no way to achieve what a Rekord does with out a Rekord in the gun!
But for what the XT was intended which is plinking and hunting, it more than meets my requirements now. Hence the R9 became expendable and I traded it for a Sumatra 2500 carbine and sold the Beeman 2 X 7 X32 Blue Ribbon R66 scope off it for $200! And the Sumatra has a trigger that is VERY difficult to use when compared to a Rekord. And I am not sure there is anything I can do to improve the Sumatra trigger.
Shellshock,
As far as I know the only way to get a Rekord trigger is buy a Beeman high end gun with a Rekord trigger. There is a Chinese clone or two out there which says it has a Rekord trigger but from what I hear on the net, it is NOT as good as a Rekord.
Can the Rekord be retrofitted to other guns? I don’t know but there is probably some innovative craftsman some where that could do it.
Would it be worth the cost? Heck no! Just find a good used Beeman on the airgun forums or gunbroker that has the Rekord. Those can be had for $250 – $350 used. Maybe even less as I have seen R9’s in fairly good shape but unaltered go for as low as $200.
The trigger on my Storm is pretty good compared to what most say. Can be set so light that it is scary.
No consistency in Chinese manufacturing.
twotalon
Shellshock
The Rekord trigger is made by Weihrauch in Germany (formerly West Germany.) The trigger is so good the breakbarrel rifles that have it carry a special designation, for instance an HW30 becomes an HW30S. The former rifle has what is called the Perfekt trigger which is not nearly as good, and will sell for less. Dr Beeman being the cunning man he is, opted to spec the Rekord trigger in his R series rifles sold as Beeman.
Is is it the best trigger in airgunning? Probably. I haven’t sampled enough triggers to answer that question. My TX200 was designed with another Weihrauch rifle in mind, the HW77, which has the Rekord trigger, so the TX trigger is a near copy. It is probably the best “out of the box” trigger I have used. I have a Beeman R7 (Rekord trigger) that might be better, but it was tuned by Paul Watts, who’s considerable talent does not come cheap, and that is if he has time to work on your gun with his considerable backlog.
Shellshock,
I have heard the new all metal Diana T06 trigger is as good or better than Weihrauch’s Rekord, but I haven’t seen it. It was released in Europe at the end of 2009 but not yet in the US due to the large existing stock of Diana guns with the old T05 trigger. If the trigger is your primary concern, you have three options:
1) Buy any Weihrauch rifle with a Rekord trigger. The HW30S is amazing.
2) Seek out and buy a Diana or RWS Diana gun with a T06 trigger.
3) Buy any gun of your choice and then let a master gunsmith such as Vince or Derrick38 tune your gun and trigger. Do not let just anybody touch your gun. It must be Vince, or Paul Watts, or somebody that they recommend.
-AlanL
Shellshock, I have an R7 with the Rekord trigger. Great gun, great trigger. I wish all my guns had a trigger this good on them. Toby.
I believe I have just been “schooled” in the ways of the Rekord trigger lol. Thank you guys for helping me out here. I have been considering getting a TX200 because I know it has to be a really nice gun to have the rep that it has. Now im also wanting to get a Beeman R9, I believe that also has the Rekord trigger, yea? Plus, it looks amazing to me! I think that before I invest in any more guns tho, I should pick up a Chrony. From what I have heard, It could save me from having to spend tons of cash to have my guns sent out to be tuned for what I can do at home.
Thanks again,
Shellshock
Vince…
You told me something without intending to….my Marksman 0035 is a Norica.
The picture of the simple trigger setup is the giveaway. Identical.
twotalon
Great start Vince, can’t wait to read the rest!
Aaron
B.B.
I have thought of a test to try just to see what happens, although I think I already know the answer.
From what I have seen so far, the pellet head size is very important in obtaining accuracy. What I want to do is this….
I want to compare pellets that have heads that are slightly larger than the bore at the breech to pellets that are slightly smaller than the bore at the breech.
I was thinking about using my 97K with H&N Match Rifle or Finale Match Rifle in 4.51mm (which fit right) and the Match Rifle or Finale Match Rifle in 4.48mm which would be too small. 4.50 mm is the minimum size limit that I have found for this rifle so far. The heads just barely fit snug.
Would need to order a tin of pellets (the smaller ones). Already have FTT in 4.50 and both match pellets in 4.51.
I think that shooting the same kind of pellet with just a slight size difference would make for the best comparison. My intention is not to compare two different kinds of pellets.
Will have to shoot indoors at about 25 feet. If the 97 goes as nuts about pellet size as my 853 does, there will be no problem telling the difference. But I might have to put a shield in front of my water heater, water pump, and table saw.
Also want to try cutting cards in half with pellets.
twotalon
twotalon,
I will predict that the smaller head sizes will be less accurate. But I don’t know about 25 feet. I like to shoot at 25 yards to see differences in accuracy.
However, when I was testing the Edge target rifle, head size did seem to make a small difference
B.B.
Vince,
Nicely written, can’t wait to see how it turns out. When I get a Smokey one, I put it outside in the sun for a good bit then pull it apart for a thorough cleaning. Stock with Murphy oil soap and metal with any oil. After that it sits a bit and I wax the stock.
I think you’re right that the case may be a lost cause, but once summer is here try leaving it outside for week or more.
As far as Doc Beeman, I have to agree with him that spring airguns are one area where anyone can afford the best. Any serious shooter needs at least one of these: R7, R9, R1, HW30S, HW50s, HW97K, etc. We can’t all drive Porches’ but anyone can save long enough to pick up a used R7 or R9 if they have a computer to read this.
Vince,
I smoked for 40+ years, quit 5 1/2 years ago, and found that the dollar store liquid all purpose cleaner degreaser called LA’s Totally Awesome all purpose concentrated cleaner degreaser, did an excellent job of removing the layer of crud deposited by cigarette smoke from metal and wood. If you want you a bottle, send me an e-mail. I am still at Dropdog2@Aol.com
Bruce
Actually, and I fergot to mention this at the end of the report, several months in my cellar seems to have de-odified everything – even the case. Go figger. I don’t even get the slightest wiff of smoke now.
Vince
Owned by an airgunner/heavy smoker? I’m going to guess they smoked Lucky Strikes. Marlboro lights just won’t get the job done.
Great blog by the way. The entertainment is as good as the education.
I know you have worked on several Mendoza rifles. Perhaps a blog on that with observations on the Bronco in particular would be very helpful to many of us. Wayne is tenaciously holding on to the one you tuned for him.
Actually, I think I documented that teardown and reassembly. Just haven’t gotten around to writing out all the verbage.
Vince,
I’ve really missed your guest blogs.
A spot on summary of the Beeman legacy. Reminds me so much of the Tomism, “continue to harvest the energy that brand name has built up.”
The only experience I have had with norica was my buddy Freds Norica Krono. I think that was a spanish Norica (Gamo?). Much improved after you worked your magic on that gun and reassembled it. I’m envious of your passion to discover the ways to wring out every gram of potential in these springers.
kevin
Kev, Norica, Gamo, and Cometa are not mechanically related to any significant degree.
Vince,
Thanks. His Norica Krono was also badged a Beeman GS 700 and a Marksman model 0035. I think they were made in Spain?
kevin
Yes, they are all Spanish.
I worked on his Krono? Funny, I don’t remember that…
Vince,
It was sent to you in pieces. He tore it apart and while he was at it he tore it up. You did a great job of putting it back together. This was around the time you did the tune for me on the old HW50 with the perfekt trigger.
kevin
Well, that makes sense, since I don’t remember the HW50, either…
(sigh)
Rekord triggers,
Guys, the Rekord trigger is indeed a fine air rifle trigger. Among springers there are few that are better, but they do exist in the 10 meter vintage target rifles.
But for a sporting trigger, the Rekord is tops, with the refined design that’s in Air Arms rifle being the epitome.
However, the ultimate in Rekord triggers is the one Weihrauch put into the HW 55. I talked to Hans Weihrauch, Jr. at a SHOT Show years ago and he told me the trigger is essentially the same as all other Rekords, but they put different springs in it, so the release weight can be adjusted very low. That Rekord is almost as nice as the trigger on an FWB 300.
B.B.
B.B.
Interesting little nugget of history… .. I knew I liked the triggers on the Air Arms s400 and 410s for some reason:-)… there is said to be even a slight upgrade on the AAs400 MPRFT.. although I can hardly tell the difference after I set them light and without any first stage… about as good as any I’ve tasted.. and I have tasted a few now:-)
thanks again for all you do for us here!
Wacky Wayne
B.B.,
A long time ago (about a hundred pounds ago!) you promised us a blog on Diana’s new (now not so new anymore) T06 trigger…
AlanL
AlanL,
I still have it on my desk to get to.
And as far as being near a Rekord in performance, I’d hold off on that until I test it. This new trigger doesn’t look all that different.
B.B.
A light trigger for shooting an airgun accurately is critical to me.
I shoot with quite a few guys that are very good shots. It’s amazing how well some of these guys can shoot with a so so trigger. Inevitably they’ll pick up one of my guns and comment about the trigger. Many times they’ll admit that they never touched their trigger adjustments. It usually suprises them how much easier it is to shoot their guns with a well adjusted trigger.
There are trigger tutorials on the internet that cover every adjustment in every type of trigger. Many folks are intimidated by “fiddling” with their triggers since many have said the trigger unit needs to be removed from the gun, it needs to be cleaned, the sears need to be stoned, new lubes need to be applied etc. etc. Of course this helps but just removing the action from the stock and making external adjustments by turning a few screws can make a world of difference and only take a few minutes. Triggers set by the factory (and most owners) are usually far from their potential.
I think the rekord is the epitomy of sporting triggers. One of the best triggers I ever pulled on an airgun was the tuned trigger on a diana 75 that Mike owns. As Wayne mentioned, the triggers on the AA S410’s can be adjusted very well and still be safe. My favorite trigger of all my 10 meter guns is on a Walther LGV U. It suits me better than the triggers on my HW 55’s and they’re very nice.
kevin
Kevin,
Horrible triggers are bad, especially any creep in the second stage (if two stage), but I can’t use anything too light — not enough feeling in my hands. 4 pounds is just about right for me, especially if it will be shot in the field. A buddy of mine, however, did manage to find a trigger that was too heavy even for me. It was on a basket case ML’er that he was rehabbing, and the pull was measured at 16 lbs. When he worked it down to 6 lbs., the rifle shot great for me, but he was never able to adjust it comfortably for himself.
BG_Farmer,
I think we’re on the same page. A 4 lb.+ trigger is necessary for field/hunting. Gloves and field conditions demand that. My triggers on airguns designated for target shooting need to be in single digit ounces.
kevin
Thanks, I learned something. Did not know that the Beeman G series were Norica’s. All this time I thought they were China and therefore ignored them.
I now own both caliber Norica Storm’s from PA. The triggers to me are great right out of box as is the accuracy. The overall finish is nice too. I also have a Walther Force 1000 and that trigger has worked in to be pretty nice also.
Frank
The G series were Norica, the S series were Chinese (GS1000 vs. SS1000). The Force 1000 has a copy of the ‘good’ Norica trigger, I believe it’s just about an exact copy.
Cool. I have a pair of Walther Force 1000’s. I do like the trigger, but I don’t have much to compare it to. Now I know its one of the better ones. Thanks.
BB
I have a question/observation regarding yesterday’s tangent about keeping a pump of air in pneumatic guns as preventative maintenance. First let me say I am not questioning your advice, I trust it implicitly. Also the logic of your advice makes perfect sense, another reason to follow it.
Now, on with it. A quick perusal of the Crosman 1377c owners manual reveals the following passages:
From section 3B.
• Always uncharge your airgun before handing it to another person , when
you are done shooting, AND BEFORE STORING.
and from section 8.
• Before you store your airgun, make sure it is unloaded, not charged, and the airgun is “ON SAFE.”
The owners manual for the Blue Streak merely states in section 9:
• Before you store your airgun, make sure that it is unloaded, not charged, and that the airgun is “ON SAFE.”
My question is, ‘is Crosman ignorant of how their guns should be stored, or are these merely lawyers talking?’
Maybe you could throw your weight around and get Crosman to amend their owners manuals.
PS: I pray you are feeling healthier and stronger each day.
Slinging Lead,
I believe this was a topic of discussion on the old blog a couple years ago. I’m guessing that the same thing holds true for multi-pumps as it does for CO2 guns: the seals MAY take a set if the gun is left charged for an extended period of time.
Another thing might be an issue. Storing a gun while it’s charged. What’s more important? Extending the gun’s mechanical integrity through proper care/maintenance or avoiding lawsuits?
Edith
SL,
Ah, howbout we take the even more cynical viewpoint and say that they’re also in the business to sell spare seals, repair jobs and maybe even more guns when little Johnny discovers his gun “don’t work no mo”…
-AlanL
AlanL,
to this I say “pfffft”. I own something like 9 air rifles and perhaps 4 air pistols. These guys make their money by getting us addicted to air rifles. Case in point – how many rifles do you own now?
These manufacturers are a crafty bunch and a word of warning, beware of Gene S at Pyramydair. It’s kind of like staring at the Medusa but instead of turning you to stone, Gene will sell you multiple air rifles at the same time!!
Fred PRoNJ
Fred,
Ouch! Ummm… ten? I blush to admit it!
-AlanL
SL,
I believe it is a legal thing. They don’t want a charged gun around. But it was both Benjamin and Sheridan, separately, who produced this maintenance rule to begin with. Now Crosman owns them both.
B.B.
Vince,
Nice to see something a little different. Can’t wait to see how it shoots. Lots of moly on that trigger, with as little preload as necessary, and it might not be too bad :).
My opinion,which wasn’t asked for….that is pure legalese.I sense that you knew the answer too.Keeping the firing valve seated with a pump of air benefits the post-purchase consumer
with very little given up in the safety department,IMHO.One pump of air in a multipumper isn’t going to produce a major safety risk,just enough that a lawyer might not be willing to overlook it.When you market to the general public,you cannot underestimate the potential of ignorance.This IS the same world where people accidentally clean loaded guns.Putting the safety on before storing is a really good idea though.
Sorry,Edith….I type way too slow.When I started there were no responses.
Frank B
I once shot a fly with my 1377c with one pump of air. He said, “that really stings, cut that out.”
I figured it was those slimy lawyers. ‘How can you tell when a lawyer is lying?’
Their lips move. (rimshot)
Craven bastards. I guess we need someone to decipher and translate the strange language our laws are written in. Did I mention I don’t care for the law profession all that much? Er… you’re not a lawyer are ya Frank? In that case I take it all back.
If not… lawyers will stick around a carcass long after the buzzards have moved on.
One man’s humble opinion.
“You’re not a lawyer,are you Frank?”……OUCH! Like all groups one might consider…..there ARE good lawyers,politicians,etc.But you are more likely to step in rocking horse poo than to find one IMHO!
I too am no fan of lawyers. The term “good lawyer” is imho an oxymoron!
And the only “good lawyer” is a de…….erm well we can’t go there!
For legal reasons mind you as some lawyer might sue me!!!
Slinging Lead,
See what you started?
Okay, my final suggestion to all PCP manufacturers on what to say, so as to satisfy the truth, customers, and lawyers alike:
“Experience has shown that storing your pneumatic airgun charged with one pump of air helps to ensure the longevity of seals, whereas not doing so will shorten their life considerably. However, for safety reasons, we highly recommend that before you store your airgun, you make sure that it is unloaded, not charged, and the airgun is “ON SAFE.””
Now how’s that for crystal clear double-speak?
-AlanL
That is what I was thinking.
Vince,
Thanks for the Beeman history lesson. You’re a good writer and easy to follow. Let’s see what else you have.
I got some really good looking surgar cookies for Christmas but when I ate one the cigarette smoke was very obvious in the taste. I was really looking forward to eating those, too. The baker doesn’t smoke but her husband does and he doesn’t smoke in the house but smokes in a sun room off of the kitchen. The smoke still permeates.
-Chuck
As a former smoker, those cookies sound delicious :).
Question unrelated to this topic: I have noticed recently that many of my rimfire cartridges have bullets that fit loose in the casing and some of them that do fit tight in the casing look crooked in the casing. Do either of these situations affect accuracy or does the chamber/barrel correct them during the firing cycle?
-Chuck
Chuck,
An improperly seated bullet, whether not deep enough or canted, will affect accuracy. Chambering the round will typically straighten the cant to the bullet but will also potentially knick the bullet. All of these issues can cause inconsistencies that could lead to inaccuracy. Since we’re talking about a rimfire unless you’re target shooting at 50+ yards it may not be revealed. In other words, if you’re plinking with this ammo at shorter ranges you won’t notice.
kevin
Chuck,
The loose ones don’t seem to be a problem as long as they are seated properly — I’ve seen plenty like that, but the canted or improperly seated ones can cause problems as Kevin describes. I would contact the manufacturer if there was more than 1 canted bullet in a box of 100, especially if it was more than bargain bulk ammo, but that’s just me. Many times they’ll want you to send the ammo to them to take a look and will send you a good lot in return for the crappy ones, although they will rarely ever find/acknowledge a problem.
I’m looking at mounting a TASCO Red Dot Site on a Diana 52 .22 Cal. Will the TASCO site for .22 rimfire rifles work? Or, with the version for centerfire rifles be needed? Scope stop? Suggestions?
Thanks!
Mike