by B.B. Pelletier
Update on Tom/B.B.: Tom had some Jello and drank some water on Tuesday afternoon. On Wednesday, he’ll have a low-fat liquid diet. They think that on Thursday, if all continues to go well, he might be able to have a low-fat regular diet. He was able to get out of bed twice. Things are definitely looking up!
Now, on to today’s blog. This is the second installment about the Shinsung Career 707 9mm Ultra.
The Ultra is large. Although it looks a lot like a regular Career 707, it’s 20-25 percent larger in every dimension but length. The action is thicker, the stock is beefier and the weight is over 10 lbs., compared to the 707’s 7.5 lbs. The pull is 13.75 inches, which is about normal for a sporting rifle but longer than a Career’s. The overall length is a compact 42 inches, which adds something to the feeling of bulk, because it concentrates the weight.
Another part of the bigness is the huge reservoir on the Ultra. Where the twin tubes of a Career 707 measure 0.943 inches OD on my calipers, the Ultra reservoirs measure 1.103 inches across! That may look like a small difference on paper, but it is, in fact, a whopping big difference. The tube walls are thicker, which accounts for some of the extra weight, but they also hold a lot more air! Where eight pump strokes raise reservoir pressure 100 psi on a Career, I found it took 13-14 pump strokes to do the same on the Ultra. Yes sir, this is a big air rifle!
The Ultra’s power wheel. While some guns have adjustable power and some guns having repeating mechanisms, there are only a few that have both. The Ultra is one of them.
Power to spare!
The rifle features adjustable power via the same power adjustment wheel Career owners have come to love.
Note: The only ammo that currently works in the Ultra is the 77.8-grain Eun Jin pellet. Since I wrote this article, I discovered that all other 9mm pellets cause problems.
On the lowest setting, I shot a single 60-grain pellet, at 181 f.p.s. Six clicks (about 1/3) up netted me 40 shots at an average 736 f.p.s., with a 12 foot-second spread. But high power is what everyone wants, so let’s look.
Muzzle 8′ from start screen, 10 shots, 85 deg. F
.356 caliber Korean pellets, 58.3 grains
High…..966 f.p.s.
Low …..928 f.p.s.
Average…..942 f.p.s.
Extreme spread …..38 f.p.s.
Standard deviation…..9 f.p.s.
Muzzle energy…..114.90 ft.-lbs.
.356-caliber Pellet Man bullets, 90.1 grains
High…..850 f.p.s.
Low …..801 f.p.s.
Average…..833 f.p.s.
Extreme spread …..49 f.p.s.
Standard deviation…..14 f.p.s.
Muzzle energy…..138.86 ft.-lbs.
.356-caliber Pellet Man bullets, 114.2 grains
High…..744 f.p.s.
Low …..715 f.p.s.
Average…..728 f.p.s.
Extreme spread …..29 f.p.s.
Standard deviation…..11 f.p.s.
Muzzle energy…..134.43 ft.-lbs.
Although I tested 3 other pellets, the ones that now perform flawlessly are the 77.8-grain Eun Jins.
I made a serious mistake the first time out with the rifle. The power wheel stuck at six clicks up from the bottom, so I assumed that was full power. The rifle is very accurate with pellets at that level and there are more than 40 shots available per charge, but it’s well below the power limit of the rifle.
Crank her up to the top (19 clicks), and it’s rock ‘n’ roll time! Both Pellet Man bullets were accurate, but I preferred the 90-grain 3/4 roundnose bullets best of all. They packed the biggest punch, plus they fed into the bore better than the 115-grain bullets, which seemed to stick as the lever pushed them home. Because of that, there was a kickback through the lever whenever the heaviest bullets were shot.
Seven pellets fit into the magazine, as the nose of one fits into the hollow tail of the one in front of it. With 90-grain bullets, you get five shots per magazine and with 115-grainers, four.
Pellet Man also makes both 90- and 115 -grain hollowpoint bullets that hunters will want to try. At the power level demonstrated, the Ultra would be perfect for coyote, nutria and woodchuck if the range is reasonable. For rabbits and squirrels, dial down the power and use the pellet for less penetration and less meat loss.
One final comment about ammunition. There’s a loading port on the right side of the receiver the same as is found on the Career 707 rifle. But on the Ultra, the port is too short to accept even the 90-grain bullet, so it isn’t very useful. About all you can do with this port is set up the magazine to feed 90-grain bullets and feed pellets through the port, since they alone will fit.
Accuracy
At first, I shot the rifle with open sights, which are more than adequate on this gun. The rear sight adjusts for both windage and elevation, though the elevation took a moment to figure out. The rear screw on top of the sight is screwed down to raise the sight (and the strike of the round) and backed out to lower it. It seems strange at first, but it works perfectly.
At 10 meters, I got one small hole with the 60-grain pellets, which were the ones I chose to sight-in the rifle. It put them at approximately the point of aim at that close distance, which put them about the same point or a little higher at 35 yards. That sight picture also served for the 90-grain bullets, though they were off about two inches to the left and somewhat lower on the target.
The pellets gave good groups of just over an inch with open sights. But once I was on target at 45 yards, I mounted a 4x Beeman SS2 scope to continue testing.
At 45 yards, five 60-grain pellets went into this nice group measuring 0.882″ c-t-c. 90-grain bullets went about an inch at this range. The rifle is just as accurate with pellets down to 750 fps, which conserves air for many shots.
As it turned out, the rifle gave results at 45 yards that were just a little larger than at 10 meters. At 45 yards, five pellets sailed through a group measuring 0.882 inches c-t-c, while at 10 meters the group was 0.552″. Both groups were shot with a scoped rifle.
With 90-grain solid bullets, the group opened up to about 1 inch at 45 yards, but I’m not sure that’s the best it can do. I felt the rifle might have shot tighter groups with a more powerful scope; but since I had to dismount the scope each time I changed ammunition (to remove and install the pellet stop) and re-zero after each change, I used the SS2 for time’s sake. If I were going to hunt with an Ultra, I’d select one projectile, then mount a more powerful scope.
Final thoughts
There aren’t many repeating big bore airguns in the world as of this report–certainly not modern ones, anyway. The 9mm Ultra offers the same power and accuracy as the single-shot. If you want a repeater, this is the rifle to get.
Add to that the great number of shots you get from a single fill of the gun–at least 40 or more on 1/3 power! The major differences between the Ultra and the single-shot seem to be the repeating function, the power adjustment and the size of the gun.
Good morning Edith and Tom,
Glad to hear about your progress and that things are looking up.
The world of big bore air guns sounds like the real dark side. How loud is the report of this gun?
Mr B.
Very good news indeed. This is great news.
Manish
Mumbai
India
Jello? I didn't know raging bulls ate Jello.
Congrats on the new gig, Volvo.
SL,
Edith probably meant Jello shots.
AlanL,
I just wipe down my 2300 with a silicone rag.
Edith,
That's great news about Tom. But we all know this just a horrible great conspiracy of yours to foist a "low fat diet" on him by any pretext. Tom, don't fall for it– go for that sirloin with mashed potatoes and gravy, the nice spaghettini fruta di mare, and the apple pie with ice cream! 😉
-AlanL
Dear Tom and Edith:
I don't know how to navigate these forums all that well and am discovering how to use them recently. I just read Edith's March 30 post on your condition. I am very sorry to hear of your attack. I see from today's update that things are looking up. That's great.
I wanted to thank you for the information you shared with me – I guess the whole forum, actually – especially for the pictures of the refillable equipment. I'm a retired civil engineer. I worked in pressure vessel design & implementation many times over the years. Back before the Lady Lex CVT-16 was mothballed in your state, I worked with them there too. If I can address any concern or answer questions you or others may have related to refill station design considerations, it would be my pleasure.
But my prayers and others I'm sure are with you now. So just get better and come on back when you can.
Tom,
I have a 1950’s survival book that lists fat as the ideal food. The author actually claims that many early settlers died from “rabbit starvation” as the meat was too lean and their only source of nourishment during the winter months.
I can send the info so you can pass it on to your Doctors and they will allow Alan’s meal.
BG Farmer,
I printed out a hard copy of the plans awhile back, so I will need to track it down. I believe I choose that particular compressor as it appeared to be the simplest design. Certainly you would be at liberty to get as creative as you would like with it. I will start packing the Daisy.
Volvo
I'm happy to hear of more progress.I certainly hope it's some incredible jell-o….if there is such a thing.
Mike, I forgot to mention, good job on your myth-busting. Sometimes a man has to take matters into his own hands…
Nevertheless, some people might not restrain the cart as well as you did, so it is still potentially dangerous or at least hazardous if there is a difference in that distinction.
Good to see you on the daily blog.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mr B.,
In our backyard, it would be loud. In the field or woods, it won't be as loud. It's certainly no louder than the Sam Yang Big Bore.
Edith
Kevin,
Oh that's nice…
"FX Tarantula .22 w/walnut thumbhole stock"
…nice buy, great looking stock and bluing.. beautiful rifle!
Got to love that yellow classified!
Wacky Wayne
AlanL,
To the best of my knowledge, for CO2 cartridges or even piston spring airgun chambers (very sparingly on this latter application), a drop of silicon oil is acceptable which I believe is what Pellgun oil is. However, it has been stated that silicon oil does not provide acceptable shear film strength for metal to metal lubrication. The same can be said for WD-40. It really is a poor choice as a lubricant but great for water dispersal (WD – get it?).
Heavy Tar or the viscous gear grease that we all talk about and love is used not so much for lubrication but to dampen the vibrations from springs. Moly seems to be loved as a lubricant for all high stress applications, from bearings or pins on barrels or cocking levers to the sides of the piston on a spring powered gun. I use white lithium grease for wheel bearings, steering head bearings and other high stress areas on my road bike. I can't see it being a problem on a sear/trigger interface but it has to have a high enough viscosity and shear strength to stay in place and not be wiped clean from the surface over time.
I know that BB has had several blogs about lubrication in the past – here's one on lubricating a spring piston gun:
/blog/2005/12/lubricating-your-spring-gun-part-2-cocking-linkage-breech-seal-and-trigger/
but I can't put my finger on one where he talked about all the lubricants available for use, in one blog that didn't involve a tune.
Volvo,
congrats on landing a job in this dismal economy. So, how're the Chinese lessons coming along? Couldn't resist.
BB – looking forward to you getting released from the hospital shortly.
Fred PRoNJ
Hey, Slinging Lead: The screen interface has switched back on me again. A post or two ago, the "Leave your comment" section was at the top. Now it's back at the bottom. I suppose we can expect more irregularities.
OK, I'll put the video links here on today's post. I am beginning to realize that's what people read when they log in. I scrolled down and the backdated articles only go so far back.
"900 PSI", depending on how you look at it, can be a lot of pressure. If spread out over a square foot, nearly 130,000 pounds of force is exerted against whatever is supporting it. A smaller area, say one-hundredth of a square inch though, has only 9lbs of force exerted against it. This is the force due to pressure. If there were no pressure, there would be no force.
For example, the opening area inside a typical o-ring used in guns with co2 cartridges is slightly under two-hundredths of a square inch. That translates into less than 18 lbs of force against whatever the co2 cartridge is mated to when punctured. If you're fast enough, you can actually prevent it from coming out with your thumb. But ya gotta move at lightspeed.
The infamous
highly feared
co2 cartridge.
There are lots of ways to make the cartridges dangerous:
i) putting one in a gun, charging it up, loading the gun and handing it to a moron
ii) shooting a co2 cartridge at someone with a wrist rocket slingshot – even a David & Goliath sling. This is dangerous even with an empty co2 cartridge.
iii) tossing one in a pot of boiling water & standing with your face over the pot to see what happens.
iv) a loaded air cane in the hands of some old codger facing down a young punk trying to mug him.
But an 8-year old properly supervised boy with a bb gun and a pocketful of bb's & co2 cartridges is no more a dangerous situation than a kid with a pocket full of rocks and an attitude.
On the pellgun oil: It is not silicon oil. It is mostly 30 wt non-detergent oil. I don't know why folks don't just buy the pellgun oil? I know it comes in a little tube and seems expensive for the amount contained there, but a tube will last a long time. I bought a single tube three years ago and I have like a dozen CO2 guns, and I've resealed a couple on just that one tube.One large coffee can cost as much. If you have a car you have to buy gas,no? Robert.
I believe Pellgun oil is made with a 20wt base stock, not 30wt.
Vince,
Crosman describes it as "Monolec GFS SAE 30 Engine Oil" in their material safety data sheet. Presumably, there are additional additives that help maintain the seals in CO2 guns, but the MSDS is sort of vague about those.
I use pellgunoil because of the additives and because it's recommended by both the manufacturer and everyone else I've ever seen writing about how to maintain CO2 and multi-pump pneumatic guns. Even though non-detergent oil is far, far cheaper than pellgunoil, it's not that expensive as Robert pointed out.
BTW, B.B. has covered this in detail already
Bobby
Volvo,
I thought you were a car salesman (and master car buyer!) It may be inappropriate to ask, but… what are you going to be doing for a builder?
-AlanL
Here's a good thread on alternatives to Pellgunoil from the GatewayToAirguns forum.
BTW, I can attest to the warning from Spark22 about automatic transmission fluid destroying the seals in a pneumatic gun. It did a real job on a Daisy 880 from my childhood that I was restoring for goofs. I decided to see what would happen if I used ATF — because Pellgunoil was expensive. Shortly thereafter, it stopped holding air. And shortly after that, it stopped shooting pellets entirely. It cost me a complete set of seals for the rifle before it would shoot again. Live and learn, I suppose :-}
Bobby
Volvo,
Link me up when you find it. I'm glad you said I can tweak it. I'm thinking a Volvo logo might look nice, but it won't be "made in China":).
AlanL,
Something about lubricants makes people go a little nutty. Check out "Bob is the oil guy" forum if you want to see where the madness can take you:). In my opinion, any regular maintenance is enough to keep most "guns" working and protected.
For the outside metal of a gun, 30W (or anything in the vicinity) motor oil does as good a job as anything else and better than most. Rub it on and then wipe it off; its not messy or smelly at all. Never had a gun rust when maintained that way, or any other way for that matter.
Buy pellgunoil or don't — seems to be nothing more than 30W diesel rated oil, judging by the MSDS. It is not even non-detergent; in fact, it has high detergency, if I remember correctly last time this came up. If it makes you nervous to substitute or the possible loss of the seals is going to cause you emotional distress, by all means buy the Pellgunoil.
Interesting rust test here. Note the lack of protection for the motor oil test sample:
https://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10700/guntechdetail/Gun_Cleaning_Clinic__Knowing_the_Limits_of_Rust_Preventatives
kevin
BG_Farmer,
I agree with Robert– I have 4 tubes of Pellgun Oil (anal me) and still haven't run out of the first tube even though I use it a lot. It is interesting to see you say that it is not a non-detergent oil when everybody seems to say that that's one of the things that make it special. The MSDS that Bobby Nations linked us to doesn't mention the Pellgun Oil product name, so that opens the question whether the MSDS is really for that particular product. Overall protection of exterior surfaces is not what I have in mind for Pellgun Oil, and now Kevin has pointed out an issue with corrosion protection.
It's the Ballistol I'm wondering about. A.R. Tinkerer says he doesn't like it but B.B. says he does. That's what I use to lightly rub on all outside surfaces and some hinges, like the break barrel hinges. (I don't have any moly- where do I get that?)
Fred,
Based on your experience with white lithium grease I think I will give it a try on the sear interface, when I do the polishing job that Derrick38 recommended.
-AlanL
Terminology question:
I see Muzzle BRAKE and BREAK used in about equal proportion. Which is the correct term?
-AlanL
Muzzle-BRAKE
As in apply the Brake to stop the car.
Brian in Idaho
Kevin,
That is a little surprising, but I wish they had used 30W or similar. 5W30 is significantly thinner. My point was that — in my experience — guns don't rust if they are kept oiled regularly and semi-conscientiously (sp?). Many of the speciality products don't look like they do any better job, either.
Finally, it was a good test, but note that at the 24 hour period, there was nothing significant to note if I'm reading correctly. Which is to say that even under harsh conditions, most if not all of the products should work with a daily rub down.
Maybe I should switch to WD40:).
AlanL
There are a good number of places to get molybdenum disulfide grease, I got 1 pound can from Advance Auto Parts for $6 or so, but it is not the best stuff from what I understand. It has something to do with the concentration of moly vs. graphite or something like that.
Apparently a very good quality moly grease is available at Honda motorcycle outlets. This comes from derrick38… or was it Nick… or maybe Vince? Arrrgh! I'm getting old and senile prematurely.
WV: rednexi. Just because I'm from Georgia?? Profiling !!!
AlanL,
I admit I didn't look at the MSDS this time. I believe this is the manufacturer's product information flyer:
http://www.le-inc.com/products/documents/8420-8450_flyer.pdf.
Note the "exceptional detergency". I don't have anything against Pellgunoil, just curious and the type that would rather replace seals than not know:).
I think BB said Pyramyd quit carrying Ballistol due to low demand.
AlanL,
I did say a light grease. White lithium is fine on the Crosman trigger/sear contact. Heck, you could even use vaseline. I tend toward synthetic greases for the airguns and bicycles, but for this particular application, go with whatever you got.
The Honda Moly 60 lube contains 60% moly, hence the name and is pretty easy to find at motorcycles shops–especially the offroad kind. I pay about $10 for 3 oz locally. As far as greases go, it's not exactly cheap, but for airgun use, it goes a very long way. Maccari also sells some good stuff.
BG_Farmer
I checked out your sportsmen's club from the link you posted. Wow. That is quite a facility. I bet that place is just swarming with knowledgable guys with cool rifles as well. I'm jealous. Are you a long time member?
Glad to hear that Tom is continuing to improve.
If there's something wrong with Ballistol, I'd like to hear more. I don't own a 2300, but I use Ballistol to lubricate my other airguns and firearms and have had no problems yet.
Volvo, I didn't see exactly what your new job is, but I'm glad you've found it. I take it that vibration analysis was not necessary… 🙂
BG_Farmer, sounds like fun. The only time I've fired a shotgun was twice at the blackpowder seminar and I missed the clays both times. The big obstacle to me is the hassle of getting a facility with clays and a thrower. It's easier to use my 1077 for snap shooting at my five yard range. Also Nancy Tompkins says that any kind of shooting can reinforce target shooting skills EXCEPT for shotgunning. I guess it is because of the way you slap the trigger.
If you look like Renee Zellwegger that would be scary.
Thanks to all for the information about tempering and metallurgy. You guys know a lot. There is a lot to digest, but I understand so far that the way heat is transmitted to a rifle barrel is significantly different (of much shorter duration) from the way it is transmitted to a knife during sharpening. And the type of tempering is different. I had never heard of that process beginning with "a." God is in the details as the saying goes.
Matt61
BG_Farmer,
Yes, I noticed that. Strange, I thought Ballistol was a revered product in the firearms and airgun communities. I bought my cans of Ballistol from Les Moyer at firehawktech.com. He has also posted the Ballistol MSDS sheet. He has a great amount of Ballistol history and other info and mentions using Ballistol mixed with water to clean black powder guns.
He has some other cool stuff on his site too, like PicQuic screwdrivers.
-AlanL
Is anyone up for a bit of humor not related airgunning, hope so. My mom sent me these tidbits:
Bumper sticker of the year:
'If you can read this, thank a teacher -and, since it's in English, thank a soldier'
Wouldn't you know it….
Brain cells come and brain cells go, but FAT cells live forever.
Why is it that our children can't read a Bible in school, but they can in prison?
Why do I have to swear on the Bible in court when the Ten Commandments cannot be displayed outside?
Now that food has replaced sex in my life, I can't even get into my own pants.
rikib
The Brownell test was quite informative! I suppose most of you recognized the general attribute of the heavier products/greases to attract dust and debris? That characteristic is normally one to be avoided in/on trigger mechanisms.
Most of what I have seen used are the products that evaporate, but leave a film on the parts, or actually permeate the pores of the metal. Rem Oil would be an example of a Teflon film being left after evaporation.
Probably Dri Slide, graphite or MoS2 would be the best product for trigger mechanisms and an easy application of graphite is available in the common carpenter's pencil. Just "write" on the part until it's covered. It's also a method for lubricating high temperature applications, like bullet moulds.
Graphite or MoS2 would also probably be a better lubricant/anti-friction product for cocking levers, mainly because it doesn't have a grease component that will eventually dry out. If grease was a forever product, you'd never have to grease things a second time and they would last forever, but we all know front end components do wear out on automobiles and they do make Zerk fittings, right?
Tom, our hearts and thoughts are with you and Edith during this time. We are hoping for a speedy recovery and look forward to your witty banter very soon!
Take care of yourself, my friend… you are loved.
Jeff & Sheila
Slinging Lead,
Thanks, I joined just a year or so ago. My wife was pushing me to join for quite a while, but I was a little stubborn, if you can believe it. Turned out to be pretty nice. We're getting increasing development, and apparently it doesn't occur to exurbanites that rural areas are full of rural people, etc.:). I've never had any real problems, but it makes me think twice about shooting firearms as often as I would like.
Just because I didn't see it mentioned, the Beeman Metal to Metal (M2M) moly paste that Pyramyd sells is pretty good, and not too pricey, since a little goes a long way.
Bobby N, Robert and Vince,
thank you for correcting me regarding Pellgun oil being a petroleum based oil and NOT silicon oil. One thing that goes along with this correction – do NOT use pellgun oil or any petroleum based oil in the compression chamber of a piston/spring airgun. Silicon oil only and then extremely sparingly, if at all (1 drop per 1,000 shots – maybe). That is, unless you enjoy those loud explosions from detonation.
Fred PRoNJ
rikib
Thank you for that. There are some real gems in there, especially #1.
My favorite, "Can you trust the government? Of course you can! (Just ask the Indians.)"
Second favorite, "You don't buy beer, you rent it."
Tell your Mom she has a great sense of humor.
Take it easy Robert.
AlanL,
Muzzlebrake. It's a firearm term, so there's no need to invent anything new 🙂
Edith
Fred: If I came across a bit chippy about the pellgun oil, I apoligize. Since I've been into airguns since before there was an internet and tuner gods. I can now see why there is a lot of confusion about proper lubes and their use in airguns. One highly experienced mechanic of Crosman guns ,absolutely hates pellgun oil. Another uses it exclusively when rebuilding and repairing Crosman airguns. Both are very respected, and that just adds to the confusion. My own take on this, based on tearing down a few CO2 guns that weren't working.Is that most stopped working because nobody used them regularly. So they didn't get maintainence, or any use to distribute whatever lube was used, Robert.
Kevin is like an old-west quick-draw shooter when it comes to tremendously informative web links. Thanks once again Kevin.
I guess the biggest surprise was how well WD-40 performed. Biggest yawn? Boeing's proprietary blend. It better work, seeing as how hard it is to find at Home Depot, and that tax dollars most likely paid for it's development.
Curiously, I keep my dearest guns in what most would consider horrible conditions, a Plano case with what I guess is open-cell foam. I have a silicone oil gunsock around my TX200. Every other rifle gets a cheap wool sock from the Army surplus store. ( The socks that aren't warm, but do make your feet sweat, and itch.)
After a month in storage, I opened the case and found no rust. Keep in mind my climate is roughly as humid as the Amazon.
Nice acquisition, Kevin. How many tarantulas now? 3? My bitterness is matched only by the knowledge that they are in good hands.
Now that you have a thumbhole, don't you want to get rid of that ugly old grade 4 Turkish walnut version with the standard stock?
I am beginning to sound like Wacky Wayne.
Slinging Lead
Yeah Mom's quite feisty so is Dad (even though he's a Deacon).
I like your favorite, most of my family lives just outside a reservation.
Mom's got a lot more, some may not be suitable for posting.
rikib
Slinging Lead
Just realized I'm about 3 1/2 hrs south of you. Never know who you will meet on here. Aside note: How's your pollen up there? Ours is 7x normal and they say it is going to get a lot worse. Almost like green snow right now.
rikib
Slinging Lead,
You can never have too many tarantula's.
Here's my new favorite springer:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1270665549/1985+R8+++++%28picture+heavy%29
kevin
rikib
My black Toyota truck is now yellow.
As I understand it, most of the visible yellow pollen is from these ugly scrubby pines we have here, and does not contribute much to allergies due to the size of the pollen. I don't know which is worse, the 20 tons of pollen in the air, or the 40 tons of dried-up stamens that will fall off the pines in a few weeks.
Most everything else, as far as pollen is concerned is invisible, and the minute nature of these pollen grains is what tricks our immune systems. Allergies are basically an overreaction to a perceived, but imaginary threat to our immune systems.
Stupid immune systems.
My azaleas will be blooming soon! Yours have probably been in bloom for awhile? You live in Georgia, so you must have azaleas.
I envy you your southerly location, I would like to be able to plant more palms, and maybe some citrus trees.
Daddy is a Deacon? You must have endured some hellacious lectures!
If your Mom has more, email them to me. The dirtier the better;^)
Keep me updated on your steel breech install.
Just a word more about oil. There is a frequent poster on the Daisy Forum who started out collecting old Daisy BB guns. He initially tried to revive them by oiling them with detergent oil. Said it destroyed the seals in them. Switched to non-detergent and it works fine, but the damaged seals had to be replaced.
Personally, I use 30 wt. non-detergent oil and Hoppe's No. 9 moly oil. I have some Remoil and regular Hoppes No. 9, but haven't tried them yet.
I'll try Pellgunoil when I find it locally.
My favorite grease is Coastal Chemical black lithium grease. Works fine on wheel bearings and steering linkages.
I also have some LaBell's Teflon grease that is made for use on plastic parts. I need to find some more of that stuff!
Les
Kevin
Which is the favorite? The R8? Or the R8 Tyrolean? Or the HW55 Tyrolean? Dang it Kevin, why you gotta be so cruel?
I was thinking of getting an R7.
RE: Pellgunoil
The link that Bobby Nations posted is at:
https://www.crosman.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf
Since this is Crossman's own website there shouldn't be any doubt that this is the "right" MSDS.
AlanL – RE: Lubrication
Sounds simple, but really a complicated topic. "Lubricates" are used for:
* Metal-to-metal wear
* Metal-to-seal lubrication
* Metal protection from rusting
* Spring "Tars" – make spring "stick" to side of cylinder to reduce spring reverberations
So many different metals, seal materials, and so on that reducing "lubrication" to a few simple guidelines just isn't possible.
Herb
Slinging Lead
Yeah, have the palms, banana plants and trees (they are two different things) all kinds of flowering plants, fig trees and of course the Georgia "required" Peach trees along with 6 pecan trees, pollen galore!
Mom's usually got a quite a few. I'll keep you info'd, never know where she gets some of the stuff she sends me.
I'll keep you posted on the breech, wish the pieces were bigger.
rikib
Vegetable oil in a springer is good.If you like lots of smoke and that freshly cooked fries smell:)
Keep the good news coming Tom & Edith.
A few more humor tidbits from Mom. We all gotta laugh sometime but if these post annoy you let me know and I'll stop.
rikib
Marriage changes passion.
Suddenly you're in bed with a relative.
I saw a woman wearing a sweat shirt with 'Guess' on it.
So I said 'Implants?' She hit me.
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and over fifty for Miss America ?
I signed up for an exercise class and was told to wear loose fitting clothing. If I HAD any loose fitting clothing, I wouldn't have signed up in the first place!
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
Herb,
Thanks, that pretty much pegs Pellgunoil; I should have checked the MSDS again. LE Monolec GFS 30W.
The link I posted is from Lubrication Engineers; it has more oil-specific data on Monolec GFS (available in various weights). Definitely seems to be a detergent oil. Given the engines it is aimed at, non-detergent would seem a bad idea.
By the way, all, I'm posting so much today because blogger is prettier for some reason:). Sorry if I've gone overboard.
Desertdweller,
I wonder if the seals deteriorated from the detergent or from the fact that they were old and in need of something to start with.
Slinging Lead,
My favorite is normally the one I'm shooting.
Seriously, all those tuned springers are my ideal. Smooth, medium power, easy to cock and therefore fun to be accurate with all day long.
R7 is a wonderful gun too.
kevin
Edith and Everyone,
Thanks for all the congratulatory comments on my rejoining the work force.
Bg Farmer,
Please don’t restrain your inner creative urges; I am sure I will be the envy of the forums with my original Bg farmer compressor. If you want an actual Volvo emblem, just let me know. : )
AlanL,
While I have held several careers, I spent the last decade selling new construction. I have sold autos also, but only very briefly.
Matt61,
I am not sure if vibration analysis will come in to play, but if so I will give it my all. Well, as long as they are good vibrations. By the way, the Pacific miniseries has been okay, but drags a little at times.
Kevin,
The R8 looks great; it certainly matches the one of my dreams.
Slinging Lead,
If you go for the R7, consider used. I like the midyear models the best, and they are often sold for very reasonable prices. Also, I have concluded the .20 caliber is not the scam I once felt it was.
Herb, tar doesn't make the spring 'stick' to the cylinder. It might cause some viscous damping between the spring and rear guide, but mostly it just acts on its own.
Slinging Lead,
You asked for it, you got it. Here's my initial report on my new .177 Weihrauch HW30S.
First of all, you may remember that I moaned that Pyramyd had discontinued the Weihrauch HW30S within hours of when I finally decided to buy it, and substituted the Beeman HW30S instead. I know it's the same rifle of course, but it bugged me, because I wanted a Weihrauch branded gun. Well, surprise surprise, today I discovered Pyramyd has discontinued the Beeman and put back the Weihrauch again. Except that this time the Weihrauch has the globe and post front sight that the Beeman had, and not the Tru-Glo that the Weihrauch had before. Confused? So am I. The paper work that came with my gun was mixed Beeman and Weihrauch.
Anyway, first thing I tightened all stock and sight screws, and they were pretty tight to begin with (much tighter than the new RWS 350 that I just got, for instance) so no complaints on that score.
Matt61: The scope dovetail on the HW30S is so sharp it would put your knives to shame. It is positively dangerous to run your finger against the edges. Since the rifle is quite light, I can always use it as a potato peeler or apple peeler if I get hungry while shooting it.
The dovetail on the muzzle is likewise very sharp and the very end at the muzzle came a little chewed up right from the factory, no doubt when they struggled to put the front sight on.
The rifle came with 6 (yes, six!!) different front sight inserts, which I must say impressed me. I'm still playing with several to decide which one I like best. The choice is further complicated by the fact that the rear sight has a spring-loaded square insert that you can pull out and rotate, which gives your four different notches to choose from. So you can really customize the sight picture to tingle your pingle.
The rear sight wiggles left and right, and the click-stop adjustment doesn't seem to do much. This I didn't like.
After Ballistolling the whole thing with a rag (sorry A.R.Tinkerer), I took it out to shoot.
The barrel breaks open very easily, maybe just a trifle harder than the Bronco. There is what looks like a nylon seal at the breech end of the barrel and an odd-looking star-shaped insert around it.
First pellet I tried to load was a domed JSB Exact Heavy (10.2 gr) and I had to look again. I thought I had grabbed a tin of .22 by mistake. But no, it was the .177, and I had to push hard to get it in. It shot with a very tight and solid sonding thwack. No vibration, no buzz, nothing but a solid shot. The next ten pellets went in just as hard. Then I switched to H&N Baracuda Match 10.65 gr pellets, and these went in hard too, but the merest bit easier. This rifle really likes to grab a hold of your pellet. Once you squeeze it in, it will not fall out. A note of caution: Never use pellets with thin or weak skirts in this rifle; you will damage them just squeezing them in.
Now for the shooting: Forget breaking this rifle in. It's not necessary. I got three 0.25" 5-shot groups at 10 yards out of the box. At 25 yards I got 0.6" groups, but I was still perfecting my hold. All with open sights.
Now for a disconcerting feature: Once fired, or uncocked, the safety is in the 'unsafe' position and cannot be pushed to the 'Safe' position. This means you cannot tell at a glance whether the rifle is loaded and cocked or not. This makes the gun more dangerous, in my opinion. The safety engages automatically when the rifle is cocked and can only be engaged/disengaged when fully cocked.
This rifle likes a very light hold, resting right in the center or a little back of center of the forearm.
I have to say, this is a very sweet shooter with a solid satisfying thwack. It has displaced the Bronco as my favorite light plinker. The HW30S has made me hunger to try other Weihrauch rifles. This is an aggressive addiction.
-AlanL
Kevin,
Not too long ago you agreed with a statement I made about less being more when it comes to guns. It just isn’t possible to be appropriately familiar with a plethora of arms. Instead of a shooter you become a collector, at which point it might as well be stamps or butterflies you dote on. Do yourself a favor, move back into the light. Thin the herd. Now if we were talking puppies, we would find the runt and a five gallon bucket. Not a pleasant thought or easy on the stomach. Fortunately, this will be much easier.
I will assume the box Paul shipped the R8 in to you is still handy. You have my address. Do what you need to do.
Robert,
I had to go and re-read your post to see what you were referring to as respects "chippy". I still can't figure it out :). I think I have a very thick skin so you really have to work at it to rile me. I guess it dates back to the days of memos, carbon paper, snail mail and manual typewriters. A fellow in the home office by the name of Vern Hassel would send a memo, what I started calling "Hassel-grams", to question or request more information. Upon finishing reading them, everyone wanted to jump on a plane to the home office and beat the snot out of this guy. Then I got to finally meet Vern. He was one of the nicest, sweetest, old gentleman (actually I'm his age now!) I ever met. His problem was he didn't know how to write. So don't be concerned if you feel you might have come on a bit strongly with me or even with most of the members of this blog. We all understand that we aren't wordsmiths.
Fred PRoNJ
Vince,
RE: spring & cylinder wall
I guess I was fooled by the name "tar." Does the lubrication actually keep the spring coils from sticking on the cylinder wall? The point could be to keep the spring expanding freely. That really would be more in line with the notion of a lubricant.
Wouldn't the coils near the piston would expand more quickly than the coils at the rear of the spring?
I'm trying to visualize the compressed spring. Now draw a line down the outside of the coil. The line defines a "point" on "each turn." If the spring were expanding "smoothly" then it would seem that:
* distance between turns 1 and 2 is greater than distance 2 and 3
* distance between turns 2 and 3 is greater than distance 3 and 4
* and so on…
However if turn 5 sticks then the spring develops an odd harmonic?
Does this seem right??
Thanks!
Herb
Volvo,
Don't mind confessing that I'm more than a little concerned that your crosshairs have found me.
You're too smooth.
I'm not a collector. Never have been. I like the right tool for the job though.
I've sold more guns than I've acquired in the past 6 months. The powerful springers are all gone. Many mid-powered springers were let go since other guns just did the job better. I no longer own any single shot pcp's.
I own duplicates of my favorite guns since I keep one set at my home in town and the other at our place in the mountains.
In numbers it may appear that I should thin the herd but in reality since they're divided between two locations it isn't that many.
Just to keep the peace between us that I value so much I will ship you our runt of the litter in a 5 gallon bucket. I've still got your address.
kevin
AlanL,
Congratulations on the HW30S purchase. I have to admit I am surprised your review did not include an opinion on the trigger.
Don’t sweat the safety. Early models don’t include any at all and are considered more desirable.
One word of caution, there is no anti bear trap on that girl. You can uncock the rifle by pulling the trigger while you hold the end of the barrel.
Next get an older R1 and then when you get the bug to add another rifle instead send it for a tune. Paul Watts will charge $269.00 to start, I’ll charge $19.95.
Kevin,
Denial is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.
Rationalization is the process of constructing a logical justification for a belief, decision, action or lack thereof …it is a defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner to avoid the true explanation of the behavior or feeling in question.
Dr. Volvo can help for $19.95 an hour, same price as my tunes.
(gotta try closing 3 times, you know the drill)
Alan, nice airgun. I was also wondering about the trigger. How does it come from the factory and what adjustments have you, will you or can you make with it?
Volvo, AJVenom,
Yes. In all my wordiness I completely forgot the trigger, and at that I like it so much. With my 2300 I went to some pains to try and smooth the pull and lighten the letoff; with this HW30S the opposite is true. It is so smooth, and is set so light that it pops off almost before I expect it. I'm toying with the idea of actually lengthening the pull and increasing the weight, but I think I'm just used to the 54 and 350.
Of the few triggers I've tried, the Rekord is by far the smoothest and the lightest. I can't wait to try the new T-06 in the Dianas, but I'm concerned that the retrofit kit includes piston and all. That means a change in performance for sure, and maybe puts it beyond my technical abilities, especially since I don't have a spring compressor. Now then, Volvo, you say you charge only $19.95 to start, but… how much to finish??? 😉
I'm itching to try the T-06 retrofit. Or is it forward fit?! I've read that it's even nicer than the Rekord.
-AlanL
AlanL,
As the rekord comes from the factory it is set a little heavy and often over greased…once cleaned,lubed and reset it is a treat.
Volvo,
Goes to show how little I know. You sure this applies to the 30's too?
-AlanL
AlanL and everyone,
I didn't get to read the blog comments yesterday, sorry, didn't mean to start a debate on lubrication! I don't use Ballistol for everything because of the quote directly on the can, "dissolves traces of copper, lead, brass, zinc, & tombac." I don't want to take a chance (it might take a while to do damage since it says "traces" and items like the 2300/22xx/13xx frames are covered with paint). I do like Ballistol for anything that doesn't contain copper, lead, brass or zinc (tombac is an alloy of copper & zinc), and for removing rust.
I use a silicone gun cloth to wipe my airguns and use appropriate lubricants at points that need it. BB started a series on this, but it looks like he only got three parts into it. Here is the link to part three (1st part is on CO2/pneumatics). Also included some other relevant articles by BB.
/blog/2008/11/what-to-oil-part-3-finishing-the-spring-guns/
/blog/2007/10/b-b-was-wrong-the-story-of-crosman-pellgunoil/
/blog/2005/3/airgun-lubes-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/
/blog/2007/1/how-to-maintain-a-pcp-airgun/
Maybe BB will be able to finish this series soon after he has recovered completely 😉
AR
Herb, the outside of the spring isn't supposed to be in contact with anything.
With regards to the piston end expanding fastest, that might be true to a limited extend simply because the coils further in are accelerating the weight of the end coils as well as the piston. But I'm not sure of the dynamics. In any event, from what I've seen with spring breakage, I doubt the effect is very significant.