by B.B. Pelletier
The 92FS with wood grips is a big, beautiful handgun. With its weight and size, you’ll be hard-pressed to imagine that it’s an air pistol.
Today, we’ll test velocity on this Beretta 92FS wood grip air pistol, and I’ve incorporated one or two extra things into the test. But first things first.
Installing the CO2 cartridge
I said in the last report that I’d show you how the CO2 cartridges load into the gun. Today’s the day for that. To open the grip for a CO2 cartridge, just press in on what looks like the magazine release on the left side of the gun. That pops off the right grip panel, and you have access to load the cartridge.
Once the grip panel is off, you have access to load a CO2 cartridge. Here, you can see the mechanism to adjust the tension on the cartridge before the floorplate is pushed up to pierce it. Do not adjust the screw as tight as it can go, or you’ll wear the face seal that seals the cartridge.
Once the floorplate is pushed up, the CO2 cartridge should be sealed. The adjusting screw doesn’t have to be absolutely as tight as you can make it before you push the lever up. Leave a small amount of play (maybe 1/8 turn of the brass wheel), so the cartridge doesn’t smash the face seal. Don’t forget to use a drop of Crosman Pellgunoil on the tip of each new cartridge. That’s how to keep your gun sealed for years to come.
Starting the test
The 92FS pistols function in both double-action and single-action modes. Double-action means just pulling the trigger for every shot, and the gun does the rest. For single-action, you first cock the hammer, then a pull of the trigger at your convenience fires the gun. Double-action requires a much harder trigger-pull, because the trigger has to both cock the hammer and advance the clip before the shot’s fired. Single-action offers the better trigger-pull, but it’s slower to perform.
The point is that the gun will perform differently depending on which firing mode is used. So, I chronographed it both ways for comparison.
You’re also interested in how many reliable shots you get from a CO2 cartridge. Umarex rates the pistol at 425 f.p.s., which is pretty fast for a CO2 pistol, so we can estimate that there will be about 50 good shots to a cartridge. Testing will confirm or refine this number. I should point out that because this gun has an 8-round clip, that was how many shots were fired in each string.
RWS Hobby pellets
The first pellet I tried was the RWS Hobby. It weighs exactly 7 grains and is a pure lead pellet, so it’s among the very lightest of all the lead .177 caliber pellets. That means we’ll see the highest velocity the pistol is capable of with lead pellets.
Double-action mode
In double-action, the Hobby pellet averaged 404 f.p.s.The range of velocities went from 388 f.p.s., to 434 f.p.s., so the advertised velocity is well within reason. At the average velocity, this pellet produces 2.54 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle.
Single-action mode
In single-action, I often see greater power than double-action, but that seems to vary from one model to the next. In the test pistol, RWS Hobbys averaged 393 f.p.s. in single-action. The range of velocities went from 385 to 401 f.p.s. So, the gun is a little more consistent in single-action, though it gets a little less velocity. At the average velocity, the pistol generates 2.40 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle.
Deep seating
I noticed that Hobbys fit the clip very snug and stopped before their entire skirt entered the chamber. Could that have lowered velocity, because of the energy needed to push the pellet into the chamber? I wondered, so I conducted a separate test.
RWS Hobby pellets fit the chambers of the clip very snugly. In this experiment I pushed them into each cylinder with a seating tool. The pellet at the top is seated with finger pressure alone, and you’ll note it doesn’t quite go all the way into the chamber.
The deep-seated Hobby pellets were all fired in the single-action mode. The average velocity was 395 f.p.s. and the spread went from a low of 385 to a high of 413 f.p.s. That’s so close to the results of the regular seated Hobby pellets fired single-action that I felt it wasn’t worth pursuing.
Beretta Target pellets
Next, I tried some Beretta Target pellets. They are an 8-grain pure-lead wadcutter pellet that Pyramyd AIR no longer stocks.
Double-action
Beretta Target pellets were smaller than Hobbys and did not have the same resistance to entering the clip chambers. In the double-action mode, these pellets averaged 373 f.p.s., with a spread from 355 up to 387 f.p.s. At the average velocity, they generate 2.47 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.
Single-action
In the single-action mode, Beretta Target pellets averaged 348 f.p.s. The spread went from 340 to 365 f.p.s. The average velocity produced a muzzle energy of 2.15 foot-pounds.
Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets
Next, I tried Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets. They’re hard lead, of course, but they fit the clip chambers very well.
Double-action
In double action these pellets averaged 361 f.p.s. They ranged from a low of 345 f.p.s to a high of 368 f.p.s. At the average velocity they produced 2.29 foot-pounds.
Single-action
For some reason, the Premiers were slightly faster in single-action than in double-action. That was contrary to the rest of the test; but because I tested them last, it may be an indication that the pistol is breaking in. They averaged 363 f.p.s, and ranged from 351 to 375 f.p.s. At the average speed, the muzzle energy is 2.31 foot-pounds.
Total shots per cartridge
Since I was shooting both single- and double-action, my shot count was not as high as it might have been if I’d shot only in the single-action mode. In the test gun, I got 56 good shots before the power started to drop rapidly. The final shot went 326 f.p.s double-action. That equates to seven full clips between CO2 cartridges. Had I shot only single-action, there might have been one more clip in the cartridge.
None of the velocity strings were shot near the end of a cartridge. I made sure I had a relatively fresh cartridge for every pellet velocity test.
The gun has a long, heavy double-action pull. I would estimate it runs 12 lbs. or more. In single-action, stage two is very creepy and the break point is 5 lbs., 6 ozs.
I’m still impressed by the width of the grip on this gun. It really feels like a chunk in my hand. We’ll see in the next report whether that affects accuracy at all.
Good morning, everyone,
Don’t you all try to talk at the same time! 😉
B.B.
Ha! What, you just sitting waiting for comments?
I think it’s odd that the Nickle version of this pistol is less money than the Blued version. Nice gun and had my budget been much larger than it is, I’d have one.
Though it’s on the list.
ka
B.B.
What”s to talk about? It’s snowing and blowing like hell here, and my snowblower is broke. The transmission died about a week ago, and I am waiting on the replacement.
Friday TV (satelite) sucks, no starlings in sight (not that I could hit them in this kind of wind anyway), and I am bored, bored, bored.
twotalon
TT … “i’m bored”?
Buy a new gun on line, that will help 😉
My credit card will only hande just so much. The R9 took a good bite out of it a couple weeks ago.
Need to decide if I need to move the scope back a little. I set it up indoors while just wearing a t-shirt. Comes up a little short if I put on a thick jacket. May have to choose a compromise position.
Need to have some good bench time for pellet testing and getting the right hold down.
It is a good starling killer so far.
twotalon
TT,
This is when a nice airsoft pistol or BB pistol or 10-meter gun comes in very handy.
B.B.
Exactly BB!
Light snow here in Idaho this morning, about 27 degrees out but, the garage range is a mild 61 degrees F and the S&W 586 is just waitin to punch holes in paper!
It will be 95 degrees + in McCallen Texas this weekend! Where the heck is McCallen?
Well, I do have a Crosman airsoft pistol, a RR bb gun, an avanti 853, Marksman 0035, S+W 78G, and a Crosman 2300T. But I just don’t have the itch to shoot them right now. Don’t have a full 10 yds to work with. The basement is kinda cold right now too.
I REALLY want to work with the R9, but need good weather and some distance.
twotalon
TT,
Don’t have 10 yards? Then what about 15 feet?
Get that 78G out and start making groups.
B.B.
Raining like a pisser, here this morning. Too heavy to shoot, too mucky to ride motorbike around property, so stuck inside for now. Have more medical tests Monday, not looking forward to it.
Wonder what this weekends blog will bring up, weekends are usually free-flowing.
rikib 🙂
Ok, I’m awake and at it now.
The photo of the magazine is great, as this is an issue with all of the Walther 8 shot “revolver” type guns. Flush (or deeper) seating of the pellets is crucial to smooth actuation.
My latest batch of Gamo Match pellets are tight too, and I use the end of a Sharpie pen to seat the pellets. This is especially important in the Lever Action rifle as there is very little forgiveness in the breech once the mag is installed and a jammed mag takes considerable care and manipulation to undo. On the Berretta and CP and Colt guns you can at least open the slide to work on the jam. Not so on the rifle.
What do you attribute the greater shot count in single action too?
ka
KA,
I attribute it to less energy opening the gas valve, hence less gas consumed.
B.B.
Another great detailed review. Thank you for putting ft/lbs next to your numbers so that buyers don’t run off and try and kill small game.
Interesting that Umarex has chosen the same pull weight as the firearm:
Beretta 92FS–Trigger pull factory spring = DA 11.8lb / SA = 5.55lb
g. austin,
I didn’t check that before publishing, but I suspected as much. That makes the CO2 gun an even better substitute.
B.B.
I gave a friend a Carbine that is bulk filled with CO2. The thermos sized bottle of CO2 connects to an adapter that then connects to the gun for filling. I assume the proper place for pellgunoil is inside the threads of the large thermos bottle? Or inside the end of the adapter that attaches to the gun?
kevin
Kevin,
I put it in the gun’s adaptor, so it gets blown in with the charge.
B.B.
Thank you.
Off Topic, but funny.
My Parents when down to south Florida from here SWGA, to visit cousins. On their return they stopped to pick up a couple gifts for us to thank us for watching over their place here. One gift a ring for my wife which she loved, another for me a ballcap. Wife at first was not amused, it stated, “RETIRED…Please Tell My Wife”. She has gotten over it now and sees the humor. Her first comments were that she was sending me back to my parents, at least she was smiling when she said it.
rikib 🙂
rikib,
I can see that hat with a pair of ear plugs tethered to it. That would really test her sense of humor!
Lloyd
Lloyd,
Actually, she is trying to turn the tables on me now. Saying that I’m retired so I have time to do all these honey do list she has, can’t ever win!
rikib 🙂
B.B.,
Off topic, but I am curious.
I was talking to a friend of mine and he has a Daisy VL 22, presentation model, with original case, wall hangers, 500 rounds of ammo, in mint condition. I have not seen it personally but he is a serious and informed gun person.
I don’t think you’ve ever done a blog about this unusual gun. Are there many of them floating around and have you ever shot one? I know it was on the market for only a very brief period.
Thanks,
Lloyd
Lloyd,
I have shot the Daisy VL rifle, but not the one your friend has. I bought one as a gift when they first came out and it was a spring-powered underlever. I could not help but notice that it as really an air rifle, so I tried shooting .22 caliber pellets. Of course the accuracy was horrible because of the overbore barrel, but they did shoot.
The VL was a design that came and went without much hooplah. For years you couldn’t give one away at an airgun show, but that has changed. Rifles like your friend’s now bring several hundred dollars, and the ammo also commands a nice price.
I have seen as many as 20 similar VLs on a trade table at an airgun show. Like zimmerstutzens, airgunners don’t know what to make of the VL, because the cartridge is ignited by the heat of compressed air.
The Daisy Legacy that shoots .22 long rifle ammo is another gun you could always buy for 50 bucks. Now they, too, are starting to bring over a hundred dollars if they are in good condition.
B.B.
BB Did the VL come out about 1968-ish? I remember seeing only one or two in a Western Auto store in Ca and then, they were no more. The ammo was some type of compressed powder charge with a lead pellet adhered to it. Did the compressed air (heat) ignite the propellant?
If I remember right, it was a decent looking bolt action rifle.
Brian,
Yes, the gun was a spring-piston airgun that used the heat of compression to initiate the solid powder that was attached to either a 40-grain (.22 LR) or a 29-grain (.22 short) bullet. The power was equivalent to the cartridge.
B.B.
BB,
Interesting how so many collectible items can fluctuate in value over the years.
I think they had a few different grades, from plastic stocks to fancy walnut.
So it really was an air rifle that used it’s heat of compression to ignite the “caseless ammo”? I’ haven’t seen the ammo, but seems like the bonded powder pellet might be suseptible to handling damage. I could be totally wrong.
Lloyd
LLoyd,Please let your friend know that I have a few thousand rounds of NIB Daisy VL ammo available
cheap if he needs any.Conversly,I would be interested in adding his VL to my collection if he is tired of it…..
Frank,
I think he will probably be more interested in selling his than obtaining the ammo. I will ask him this weekend and get back in touch. If it looks like I have forgotten, please remind me!
Lloyd
eric in ok says lloyd i have daisy vl plus ammo, picked up at gun show as i understand it atf decided it was a firearm and stoped there prodution, fired a few shots wont fire reliably 30yo ammo neat converstion peace though. ive only seen a couple over the years no idea on value i paid 70 dollars. good luck an happy shooting.
The ammo almost sounds like little rockets.
Lloyd
eric in ok says lloyd as i understand it the air sets off the powder on back of lead and it work like rocket but i dont know for sure.
eric in ok,
No, it’s nothing like a rocket. It explodes exactly like a .22 long rifle cartridge.
The rocket was the Gyroget, whose rounds now cost $50 each.
B.B.
eric in ok says thanks bb always wondered how it worked cant get it to shoot relyable does the air pressure set it off ? was it considered a firearm sence it work like 22lr thanks EF
B.B., I think that it’s a very important and overlooked point NOT to tighten the CO2 canisters as much as you can. I didn’t know that for awhile and my impulse was to tighten them as much as possible to assist in an airtight seal. This Beretta looks good. By the way, I was watching YouTube videos of Larry Potterfield, head of Midway USA, testing and rating various handguns for their defense capabilities. The SW M&P scored highest followed by the Sig, then the Beretta, and the Browning Hi Power was significantly lower. But comments pointed out that the test wasn’t very scientific.
Victor, thanks for your thoughts on the wind. How very interesting. Regarding near and far wind, you’re squarely in the camp of Nancy Tompkins (and Jane Hansen) with the far wind. The argument for near wind value is that angular deflection will have a greater affect on the target the further away it is (and closer to the muzzle). But only experience can really resolve this. Your shooting at 100 yards is very much to the point. I had theorized that the only way to reconcile the different opinions of Nancy Tompkins and David Tubb was to suppose there must be different effects out at 1000 yards where Tompkins shoots as opposed to the 200-600 where Tubb shoots. But your 100 yard distance explodes that theory. They both talk about shading the side picture and figuring out wind cycles, so I guess there are no shortcuts. Damned bad form for the man to rip out the other fellow’s daisy.
I thought you did applied mathematics for the Star Wars program. What branches of pure math did you do? Alas, I’ve found that for bureaucratic confusion, numbers are not necessarily a cure but an aggravation. There is a pronounced tendency of administrators and people in power to pervert numbers for their purpose. Their habits are to twist them out of a combination of incompetence and deception and try to bury you with an avalanche of numbers to hide their errors. And when you call them on it, the response is to advance their bogus reasoning and then to get angry and bluster when they are found out. I would think that for someone trained in numbers, this would be just about unbearable.
BG_Farmer, I would advance butterfish prepared in miso soup as one of the finest of fish although it wouldn’t be available in the continental U.S. I get it in Hawaii. Otherwise, I’ve heard that good catfish is very hard to beat, but have not had quite that experience. It’s been good but not that good. Has anyone come across the 10 foot long 200 pound catfish that Huckleberry Finn mentions in his book?
Another testimony to the miracle of Ballistol! The last time I was shooting my Anschutz, a case jammed sideways at the entrance to the chamber. In a panic, I took my cool spring assisted Kershaw folder, inserted the tip into the case, and tried to pry it out. But what I didn’t realize right away was that the edge was down and was mutilating my priceless anatomically correct walnut stock! I reversed the edge and got the case out but the damage was done. The finish had been removed down to the bare wood in one spot. At home, I just poured on some Ballistol in liquid form and the spot had taken on a dark stain that was slightly darker than the wood around it. I don’t even notice it now and the stock is as good as new!
Matt61
Matt,
I haven’t had that preparation, but in general, the Japanese know how to eat fish better than anyone, so I’ll trust its good. Catfish can range from bland, like grocery store chicken, when raised on farms, to muddy, when caught wild, large size and in sluggish flows. My personal favorite is channel cat caught at a creek mouth and not too big (4-5 lb. max). These are caught at the same time as fishing for panfish with lightly weighted or unweighted worms (no float) and provide “Old Man and the Sea” type action on my ultralight spinning rig :). If you want a big one, leave some chicken livers in a plastic bag in the sun for a a day or two, and hang it a little off the bottom with a heavy weight in a deeper channel — you’ll know when they’ve taken it. The big ones don’t taste as good, at least in my experience, but a big one is fun to catch, and if you know the secret to cleaning a catfish, you can feed a multitude pretty quickly. My brothers and I used to “braise” the big ones with wild onions, but I think that is probably an acquired taste :).
My preference is a nice swordfish steak, hard to find a good one. Down here in SWGA the most popular thing people fish for is brim (bluegill).
rikib
Swordfish is one of my SW favorites also, but not real common here, either :). I have yet to find a fish from either salt or fresh water (brackish as well) that somebody couldn’t make taste good. On “Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives”, there was a restaurant in Kansas (I think) that served fried carp — looked quite appetizing and people were going at it. Carp and drum I never tried to eat, but I’m sure you could if you knew how to do it.
BG_Farmer,
Carp is considered a delicacy in Germany, where they are farmed in small ponds. They are fed corn and the Germans say they are delicious. I only ate one, a female whose roe was deep-fried inside her body. It was supposed to be a delicacy, but since I hate fish (except for swordfish) I couldn’t tell.
B.B.
Grilled Salmon for me. Wife fixes it couple times a month, yummy. I like a good spicy battered catfish too, though hard to get non muddy cat in SoCal unless your pulling little ones out of the Calif. Aqueduct, and then it’s 50 50.
Looking out the window I see it snowed last night and continues to fall. At least the temp is back up to 30deg from this weeks freezing temps.
ka
Interesting. I grew up eating German favorites (among other), but we never had carp.
I’ve eaten carp. Can’t say I ever crave it. Our former vietnamese neighbors are great cooks. The key to preparing carp is to make sure and cut out the entire blood/mud veins. They poach the carp in a brown sauce that looks like gravy. It’s edible.
I like salmon if it’s fresh. We have kokanee (fresh water salmon) in Colorado that are delicious. The copper river salmon that are available here in Colorado for about 4 weeks each year is also good. For those that like salmon here’s my favorite sauce. It’s called Cilantro Butter and is used to top the fish after you have baked or grilled your fish:
1/2 cup dry vermouth
2 tablespoons dry sherry
3 tablespoons rice wine vinegar
3 tablespoons soy sauce
3 tablespoons lemon juice (fresh please)
2 tablespoons fresh ginger, peeled and chopped
5 garlic cloves, crushed and peeled
1 teaspoon lemon zest
1 teaspoon anchovy paste
1/4 pound unsalted butter, softened
3/4 cup fresh cilantro leaves
Put vermouth, sherry, vinegar, soy and lemon juice in a saucepan and bring to simmer. Reduce by half. Put remaining ingredients in a food processor and process until smooth. Continue to process while adding reduced liquid (vermouthn, sherry, vinegar, soy, lemon juice). Serve warm. Can be made ahead of time since it will keep 2 weeks if refrigerated in an airtight container.
kevin
Doesn’t seem that you would taste the fish at all with all those seasonings. I prefer my salmon with a squeeze of fresh lemon and some parsley flakes.
rikib
One of my favorite quotes:
“Jumping to conclusions can be bad exercise.”
Kevin,
Sounds good; salmon stands up to a little more flavor than most fish, esp. if wild. I like the cedar plank smoked variety also, but apparently eastern red cedar would be poisonous in that application. It is kind of the carp of trees–would be nice if it could be used :). I remember seeing a bunch of salmon in one tank at a hatchery in Oregon — insane. I’ve heard that about the carp, but never tried it. For some reason, I almost never catch a carp.
What about a good recipe for lobster. None of the restaurants I go to seem to be able to prepare a decent lobster. Any thoughts, either fresh or frozen.
rikib
Kevin,
I lived 18 years in Southeast Minnesota, on the Mississippi River. In that area, smoked carp is popular and is sold in slabs in supermarkets.
You don’t want to eat that dark stripe that runs the length of the fish on each side (forgot what it is called). That meat is strong tasting and muddy.
The white meat part is good. It is usually eaten cold, sliced thin on crackers, and followed by plenty of beer. I haven’t been able to find it outside of the Upper Midwest.
Les
TwoTalon started this trend with the Steakhouse burger stuff the other day (It’s only an hour or so round trip to BK), but now I’m getting hungry every time I read this blog :). Smoked carp sounds like a pretty good way to try it. I’ve got friends from the Upper Midwest (Minnesota, etc.), maybe I’ll see if they can bring me some back. I have to say that there are a few better ways to eat fish than lutefisk, however, so I don’t always trust their judgment to agree with my palate.
Kevin,
Finally getting back to the blog… That recipe sounds great. We’ll try it sometime. I agree with you on fresh feral salmon, store bought, tank raised has to be cooked different. My dad has a place in Florence, OR on the river, but for the last few years I have not been able to time my visits with with the fish’s spawning, so no salmon. Maybe this year…
Desertdweller,
I could live on smoked salmon, venison jerky and beer! My wife swears I was before we got married!
ka
Matt61,
I am aware that Nancy Thompson and David Tubbs have books, but I’ve never read them, so I don’t know their theories. It just always made sense to me that I should be more concerned about what was happening near the target. An interesting thing about shooting at 100 yards, is that you can actually see the bullet, and in particular a little bit of an arc in the trajectory.
I studied a little bit of algebra, but mostly analysis. The interesting about this, and working in industry, especially on SDI, is that we were solving lots of new problems for which there was no reference material. Having a more abstract mathematical training, as opposed to an “applied” one, gave me an advantage over my peers. I was better able to define the problem. The difference was this; whereas applied mathematicians typically tried to fit a problem to known solutions, or methods, I tended to give each problem its own unique respect. Often, proposed solutions to problems resulted in enough material on the “technical challenges” to write a book. Whereas the “applied mathematician” tended to rely on existing methods (usually approximation techniques), I tended to look for closed form solutions. This is VERY much like what I was describing about fighting style and training. Too much of a narrow training, and you train certain things OUT of you. If your style is devoid of strikes to the head, and correspondingly, the necessary defence, then you’re vulnerable to strikes to the head. You simply won’t have the basic instinct to defend your head. That basic instinct will have been trained out of you. The same goes for training yourself to solve problems mechanically (i.e., plug and chug). Lots of people train themselves to not think, but rather, to rely on methos found in reference material. I’ve taught my kids that college can either be just “training” for a “better job”, or it can be an intellectual endeavor. The goal can be to become “trained”, or it can be to become a thinker”. If you allow yourself to be “trained”, then you’ve restricted yourself to an existing paradigm, usually. Some people are masters of their paradigm, and that’s good for those who need that.
Your statement, “There is a pronounced tendency of administrators and people in power to pervert numbers for their purpose.” The same goes for methodologies, processes, and systems. This is why I say that often what we see is a reflection of that persons psychology, and not the methodology, process, or system. Lots of people are control freaks, power hungry, insecure, greedy, etc. They don’t just pervert numbers, they pervert anything and everything.
Victor
Victor,
Just wanted to say I agree with you. I’ve always thought outside the box throughout school and military training in computer weapons science. Things/solutions are always trying to be forced on you with no real proof. It is hard but people must keep their minds open.
rikib
rikib,
When I first started out in industry, I was always being reminded how “naive” I was for thinking that I could solve certain problems. Well, I was naive about a lot of things, including the belief that I didn’t have the option to fail. I was too naive to be confined to a “box”. One thing that I learned is that sometimes you can work very hard, and seemingly waste a lot of time, not having a clue, and then suddenly you realize what the right approach is. You might have spent 75% of your time seemingly wandering with no end in sight, but all of that effort was providing valuable insight. Suddenly, you completely solve the problem in the remaining 25% of the effort. Everything just flows! To your boss and peers, it’s a major accomplishment, but to you, there was lots of self-doubt and stress. In the end, all anyone cared about was that the problem was solved. The lesson here is that too often we quit too soon. If we only knew that we were just around the corner from a major breakthrough. Again, regarding self-conditioning, you’ll never know this kind of experience unless you practice trying your hardest with patience and perseverance.
Victor
Victor,
Patience and perseverance escaped me when I retired from the military then went on to become a draftsman. Still not getting my ideas recognized as my own. I guess you would say I lost it. Now I’m a retired disabled veteran with crap for a brain (so they say).
rikib
rikib
“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.”
–Harry S. Truman
SL,
I found that out, I guess you would say the hard way.
rikib
I remember those earlier days too Victor, naive could be a good thing, back then.
“If we knew what we were doing, we wouldn’t call it research” A. Einstein
rikib and Victor,
To points you have both made:
Sometimes I find I am forcing ideas on myself in the belief that they should work even though I have nothing to base that belief on. Admitting that the effort will never be successful is extremely difficult, but appreciating what you have learned along the way makes it more palatable, IMHO. For me the process is often more important than the end result.
Victor, that acceleration and exhilaration of that last 25% you speak of is so intoxicating. When you start to realize that it not only might work, but that it will work, and then it is working better than you had planned…… that is the reward!
Lloyd
Collector alert:
I’m temporarily tapped out, but here is a great buy for someone:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/931550694/Guns/Rifles/Walther-Rifles/Walther_LGVO_Olympic_Air_Rifl.htm
It’s a Walther LGV for $300.
B.B.
BB,
Would be great to see an Air Venturi version of the Walther LGV or close clone target rifle for $300!
MDMat,
And, while they’re at it, why not an FWB 124 for $150? 😉
B.B.
“Interesting that Umarex has chosen the same pull weight as the firearm:
Beretta 92FS–Trigger pull factory spring = DA 11.8lb / SA = 5.55lb”
The standard Beretta 92FS fix for this is a the hammer spring from a 92 D (double action only); moves the DA pull to something like 9 lbs and lowers SA correspondingly – got anything like that for the CO2 gun?
I was practicing last night with my HW 50S and not being very pleased with my results when my POI’s started to go high and wander to the right. Every time I would re-zero the scope, the POI’s would start shifting again. Darn scope? As I went to load another pellet, I noticed the trigger guard was loose. Yep, two very loose screws and the stock screw was loose. It’s the second or third time this rifle has loosened up those two screws. Well I haven’t gotten around to getting Vince’s Vibratight so it was blue Loctite to the rescue again. We’ll see how things go tonight.
Now, I have to look up exactly what a Crappie is (the one that swims) since the only fish I catch are in a store.
Fred PRoNJ
FPRNJ
How goes it my friend?
Look on the web for the SAF-T-LOK products. The nuclear reactor guys (Bechtel et al) use that stuff a lot, mostly cause they ain’t goin down in the “swimmin-pool” to tighten bolts once the equipment is submerged.
Another overlooked product are Nordlock washers. I don’t know how small (10-32 type size) they come but, they are a double washer that has inner grooves on the mating faces. Those puppies lock up big time! Their sales guys hand out a 1/4-20 bolt with a wing nut and one of their washers on it for demos. They will defy you to undo the bolt after just hand tightening the wing nut and washers. I’ve tried, it takes channel lock pliers and a vise to undo it.
OK, I’ll see if I can find Saf-T-Lok. Those washers are very interesting. Any thing like nylok nuts? I’ll have to do some research. I don’t want to strip a screw head because the torque required to loosen the screw exceeds the strength of the material. Typically, the Blue Loctite handles spring piston screws loosening up just fine but the lesson here is when your groups start to wander, first check the stock screws!
Hey, when the weather gets better, I have a trip planned to the Three Stooges Museum somewhere in Pennsy. Yes, there is one! The weather has to cooperate as I want to take my motorcycle to it.
Fred PRoNJ
You mean the Stoogeum, in Gwynyd Valley, PA?
They have a website, the hours are spotty but they post the upcoming dates, mostly Sat and Sun days and admission is free. (no cameras inside, wonder if that is a holdover from the flashbulb days and really means no flash?)
Ohh, so you think you can ride your motorcycle down there eh? Why I oughta!
That’s the one, Brian. I’m planning different day and weekend trips now that I can almost see temperatures above freezing. I already have a trip planned for Chancellorsville Civil War battlefield. That might have to be a 2 day or more trip – long weekend, I guess.
Fred PRoNJ
Cool deal… and I have been to the Fredericksburg VA battlefield/memorial, I think C-ville is just a few miles away from there. Drive time from NJ + time to see all would be easily 2, maybe 3 days.
And what type of moto do you have?
I’ll probably take my 1996 Triumph Sprint. I was reviewing the battle maps just now and realized my wife and I saw or at least rode past this battlefield when I took her for a tour of the civil war battlefields in VA and Pennsy before we were married (1985). I toured the Wilderness battlefield where Jackson was shot by his own troops and ultimately died and Fredericksburg and the Sunken Road. I remember the description of the Federal troops advancing up the hill to try and take Mary’s Heights, with Longstreet’s troops behind the stone wall at the top pouring a murderous fire down at the advancing Union troops. The description still haunts me, the advancing Union troops were turned slightly to the side and hunched down as if walking into a driving rain storm as they fell. Incredible.
Fred PRoNJ
Yup, and I have gone to socket-head or Torx screws wherever they fit and/or are aesthetically pleasing on most of my springers. Lot less stripping of soft screw heads that way and better access to those odd areas around trigger guards and frames of pistols like the bottom screw on the 2240 frame.
The HW97 gets a little loose about every 1000 rounds but, never more than a 1/8 turn or so. The Gamo nitro-piston never seems to let loose, must be the piston vs. spring?
Ever have trouble keeping the stud that the front trigger screw screws into coming loose on the 97?
After I had used enough loctite on the screws to start holding them (primarily the front trigger guard screw) the stud started coming loose.
Then when removing the action from the stock, the stud unscrews and the anti-beartrap assembly drops loose. That’s bad enough, but there is that little washer between the two pieces that falls out.
twotalon
TT,
if you haven’t solved that problem yet, I would probably get some of the Green or stud Loctite. It’s used for cylinder barrel studs that aren’t going to be coming out frequently or at all. You can still remove the stud but you need to heat it up with a torch. Or perhaps Brian in Idaho’s suggestions might work.
Fred PRoNJ
I have the probem solved.
The last time I had the 97K apart, I put a tune kit in it that greatly reduced the vibration. Loctite was used AGAIN and it is holding for now. Next time anything comes loose it will get the plastic thread locker.
The R9 got the thread locker right away after I shot it a few times to make sure it worked. No problems so far.
twotalon
Aye Carumba! Some guy is advertising an RWS 320 on Brad’s – claiming that he dropped a 130lb boar at 7 yards with it. The 320, BTW, is a rebadged XS-B20, the predecessor to the XS-B26… both patterned off the R9.
I wonder if he used to work for Gamo.
Sung to the tune from Rawhide…
Gamo Gamo Gamo
They ain’t got no good ammo…Gammmo
They claim to supersonic
But that’s with a Gin & Tonic…Gammmo
Gamo Gamo Gamo
They make plastic stuff with Camo…Gammmo
Their claims are all outrageous
But the prices are sure contagious…Gammmo
Honest, it all just came to me, really clever huh? 😉
Night all… (or is that Night Owl?)
In these troubling times I thought I would pass this quote on:
“Any man may easily do harm, but not every man can do good to another.”
Plato
on this blog/forum I feel we all do good for one another 🙂
rikib
This quote seems to fit in well with the blog/forum:
“Employ your time in improving yourself by other men’s writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for.”
Socrates
Just me and my quotes again.
rikib 🙂
Just another quote, unfortunately for me the answer is, NO.
“Open your eyes, look within. Are you satisfied with the life you’re living?”
Bob Marley
rikib
Dear PA Sales Team,
I’m sure you know that 2 inches in length can make all the difference between ecstasy and frustration… as I discovered to my chagrin
with the Plano Gun Guard 300S Soft Rifle Case,
which is not 48 inches long as described, but 46, or at least its usable length is just 46″.
Can anybody out there recommend a nice soft case like the one above that’ll fit a scoped RWS Diana 350? Sadly I couldn’t find one except for this awful looking
sky blue one.
Thanks,
AlanL
AlanL,
I needed a long soft case, too. I found a black case similar to what you see at PA on ebay.
Fred PRoNJ
Alan
Have you tried Wally World? I bought several soft rifle cases from there that were 50″.
Fred, SL,
Thanks guys! I also have a cool BassPro shop in my neck of the woods which I can try. I’m just too lazy to get in the car and go park, and then walk. And stand in line at the checkout counters (yikes!), of which there are always at least ten, but with never more than three of them manned (or girled). I like to let my fingers do the shopping, on my keyboard, which is also why I bought UPS stock a while back and have never regretted it. I’ll let you know how I make out. Wally’s World? In Miami? Double yikes!!
AlanL
Alan,
You don’t have to leave your computer to shop at basspro. Try these. I hope they work.
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Navigation?hvarSearchString=gun+case&x=0&y=0&storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&CMID=TOP_SEARCH_GO&scSearched=true
http://search.gandermountain.com/?D=gun+case&Nty=1&N=0&Dk=0&Ntt=gun+case
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2292625
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&fsch=true&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=gun+case&x=0&y=0&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products
-Chuck
Chuck,
Thanks! BassPro is actually the one store I do like to visit in person. Those RedHead 4X shirts are awesome. I respect the fact that they actually stock them and I don’t have to succumb to a Big & Tall store. I think I’ve found a case I like…
AlanL
This is a sweet gun case: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=939127599
It measures exactly 48″ inside edge to inside edge. It is squared off at the edges so you can use the entire 48″. My RWS 460 with a 3-9×40 Leapers fits with 1″ to spare.
JC,
Thanks- that’s a candidate. I have to measure my RWS 350 for the exact length.
AlanL
Well, here in the glorious People’s Republik of NJ, it’s 50 deg and Governor Christie is preparing to tick off other unions and blue collars. But it is good enough to start preparing my lawn for the Spring. Out comes the rake, wheelbarrel and removal of cover over said wheelbarrel. I dump the water out of the barrel and realize the cover is still pretty heavy – must be full of water. I straighten it out and go to the heavy end to dump the water out and there, curled up and fast asleep, is a rather large and comfortable, racoon! OK you hunters on this blog, do I just let him wake up and wander off or do I take him out?
Fred PRoNJ
Fred,
I waited until the two raccoons in my suburban SoCal tract house neighborhood became pests. I am irregularly laying in wait for them to pick my house for their shenanigans. It’s been cold, they are sneaky, and I’m not getting any younger (read running out of patience), but this has become very sporting. I vote for letting him go and waiting for him to either leave or become a problem.
I’m using my stepfather’s crosman 2240 with shoulder grip. I haven’t told him yet, but I put on a 14″ bbl, and an illuminated compact scope. (And a Parka I got during cold weather exercises 35 years ago! Brrr!)
ka
Lock and Load!
Mike
Good advice but false alarm. Closer look after the sucker hadn’t moved revealed (a) it’s a possum and (b) it’s dead!. Guess he froze to death. Shallow grave in back yard.
Fred PRoNJ
Ha! Frozen possum. Granny Bodine would’ve made road kill stew with it.
ka
I know it was not one that I shot. They don’t crawl that far.
twotalon
OK, Fred,
We can read between the lines. (good shooting. did you give him a running head start or just wait til he peeked over the rim of the wheel barrow?) 🙂
-Chuck
LOL -some great lines, fellas. You’ve all made my day!
Fred PRoNJ
Here we go again.
Yes, I know this is an airgun site. Please forgive me but there is such a wealth of knowledge and experience here from people I trust that I’ve got to ask.
I just sold a Henry H001 (lever action .22) that I took as part trade for another gun. What a cheap piece of @#$%. I want to replace this with a decent .22 lever action. Here’s my short list:
Marlin 39
Browning BL 22
Winchester 94 22
What would you choose?
kevin
Any one of the three are good. But, I would say either the Browning or the Marlin for shooting. The earlier Marlins have a smoother action than the newer ones so check it out. The Winchester is the one that will probably increase in value the fastest so I wouldn’t pass one up if the price is right. It would be hard to go wrong with any one of the three. I have a Marlin 39A, an older one. It was purchased used had has a old Redfield receiver sight on it. That was a big plus.
Mike
Mike,
Thanks for narrowing my list of 3 to 3 LOL!
Just got back from the largest used guns store. The browning bl 22 is small but looks nice. The trigger is worse than my winchester 61. They didn’t have a marlin 39a nor a winchester 94 22.
I’ve been doing some research on the 39a. Seems there’s a cult following to these guns especially the “M” mountie models with the straight stock. Does your 39a have a pistol grip? How’s the trigger on your 39a?
Greatly appreciate your input.
kevin
Kevin;
My 39a has the pistol grip and a barrel longer than the Mountie. The trigger is good for a lever gun. While I haven’t a trigger gauge, I would say it’s about 3 to 3.5 pounds. I personally like the longer barrel. As BB said, the older ones seem to be a little better made. In this area, they have always been popular with squirrel hunters that don’t use bolt actions.
Mike
Mike,
Thanks.
3-3.5 lb trigger is fine. The browning bl 22 and my winchester 61 have to be in excess of 6 lbs (I don’t have a trigger gauge either).
You like the 24″ vs. 20″ barrel because of accuracy or balance or both?
kevin
Kevin,
You just have tastes that are too good for your own well-being. As Mike said, any one of the three is a fine rifle. The BLR has an extremely short lever throw, I understand.
My vote would be with an older Marlin 39 as well, simply because it is older and therefore probably made better.
B.B.
B.B.,
“You just have tastes that are too good for your own well-being.” Now if that aint the pot calling the kettle black.
I’m sure leaning hard towards the Marlin. Thanks for your insight.
kevin
Kevin,
Why lever action?
AlanL
AlanL,
Because I don’t have one in .22 caliber anymore. I like lever actions in smaller calibers. Heck, who am I kidding. I like them all LOL!
kevin
Kevin,
Marlin 39 is a wise choice — and even I would buy a used one because of what they have done with the safety on the new ones (just looked it up, post 1983) — I don’t understand why a rifle needs a safety. I don’t like the gold trigger(post ’54), but that’s about the only criticism. If you can find an older one in good shape, I wouldn’t worry about the difference b/t cut or microgroove rifling, should that dilemma come up. Its a gimmick in my opinion, and the older ones shot just fine, but microgroove is also fine for .22.
BG_Farmer,
Thanks for the re-assurance.
Micro-groove rifling seems to be one of those things that people don’t agree on. I don’t have an opinion. Many think it works well in .22 but not in larger calibers. For my uses in .22 at shorter distances I’m not sure it matters.
You just hit a raw nerve about safeties. I hate automatic safties.
kevin
Here’s a good write-up for you, also, if you haven’t seen it. Pretty fair, I think.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/marlin_vs_winchester.htm
BG_Farmer,
No, I hadn’t seen that. Thank you. Now I’m really confused. The marlin mountie model still intrigues me. I’ve had a winchester 94 in 30-30 for almost 35 years and have many good memories with that rifle so a 94 22 is very appealing. In these situations I usually let the best deal that presents itself decide for me.
kevin
BB, the BLR does have a short lever throw. However, the trade off is that it is a bit hard at the start of the stroke due to less leverage.
Mike
Just throwing out a bit of useless info. I’ve heard this quote many times, but never would have guessed the originator:
“A picture is worth a thousand words.”
Napoleon Bonaparte
rikib 🙂
how to i buy in india
ranapratap,
You need to contact the Pyramyd AIR sales department:
sales@pyramydair.com
B.B.