Comparing the T05 trigger to the T06: Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

RWS Diana 34 Panther
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

Pro-Guide spring retainer system for RWS Diana rifles: Part 5 — The RWS Diana 34 Panther
Part 5

I’m testing the T06 trigger today using the accuracy test as a means to evaluate the operation of the trigger. The object is not to see how accurate this RWS Diana model 34P is. We already know that from tests run long ago. But as I try to shoot groups with the gun, I can get the feel of the new trigger better than any other method. So, today is about a trigger and not about this air rifle.

Of course, I’ve already used the trigger a lot in the velocity testing I did a couple days ago. Now, however, I’ll be holding tight on a small target, and any aberration in the trigger will come though loud and clear. This is where the rubber meets the road!

New BKL adjustable mount
I’m also testing the new BKL adjustable scope mount at the same time, and the next report will be exclusively about that. I showed you the new mount in Part 1, but what I didn’t show you was the bubble level that’s attached to the left side of the mount base.


The optional BKL bubble level is mounted on the left side of the new BKL adjustable scope mount. This view shows the rear of the mount raised up to compensate for this rifle’s barrel droop.

With this level attached, I can sight with one eye and watch the bubble with the other. I can’t see both at the same time, which is why a scope with an internal bubble level would be so desirable, but at least I don’t have to move my head to see the bubble like you do with some other levels. I’ll be reporting on it when I cover the mount in the next report.

Back to the accuracy test
I learned in the past that this rifle really likes 7.9-grain Crosman Premiers, so instead of fooling around with many different pellets, I selected just these pellets for the test. That way I could forget about trying to make the rifle shoot well and concentrate on the trigger.


Ten Crosman Premier lites went into this 0.443-inch group at 25 yards. It’s a little larger than Roosevelt’s head on the dime but smaller than the entire coin.

Though I’m only showing you a single 10-shot group, I shot much more than that. I probably shot 50 shots for today’s test, on top of about 20 the day before when I was checking out and adjusting the new mount. With all this testing, I became very familiar with the T06 trigger.

How the T06 trigger differs from the T05
The T06 operates differently than the T05 did. The T05 stopped cleanly at stage two and held there until the instant the sear released. There was no feeling of movement once stage two was engaged.

The T06 also stops cleanly at stage two, but as you continue to pull you can feel the trigger moving through the stage. Normally this is called creep, but it is absolutely smooth with no pauses or hesitations, and it doesn’t fit the popular definition for trigger creep. In fact, this movement becomes entirely predictable and something a shooter can learn to live with.

Something else about the stage-two pull on the T06 — on most triggers, when you pause part way through stage two, back off and then return to it again, as much of it that was pulled through is still gone. You’ve advanced the trigger or shortened the stage-two pull, whichever you prefer. Not so on the T06.

Because the Diana 34P requires so much technique (the artillery hold) to shoot accurately, I found myself stopping several times before the trigger released to take another breath. When I did that, naturally I relaxed my trigger finger as well. Then, I had to settle myself again before returning to the trigger. What I found when I got back on the trigger was that it had reset itself to the start point. The full trigger-pull was restored. This is what I want all triggers to do, because anything else means an unpredictable trigger that could release before I’m ready. From that standpoint, the T06 is a very nice trigger. The T05 didn’t have the problem of pulling part way through stage two, so of course it always acted like it had just been set whenever you came back to it as well.

The bottom line
Diana has made a change with the T06 trigger. In my observation, it isn’t any better or worse than the T05; it’s just different. If you want a metal trigger blade, the T06 has it. If you want adjustments, the T06 has more of them. I wasn’t able to eliminate the travel in stage two, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I spent all of 30 minutes adjusting the unit. Someone who is willing to put in more time can probably discover secrets that I didn’t find.

The bottom line as far as I see it is the T06 trigger is now here and the T05 is a thing of the past. I alerted you to the difference between the T05 and T06 pistons, so you know they go together and a T01 trigger can also use the same piston as the T05.

The new trigger is nice and predictable. It has the features I’ve mentioned, and they all work well. If you wind up with one on your next Diana airgun you should be satisfied with it. But if you currently own a T01 or a T05 trigger, I wouldn’t plan to change it.

41 thoughts on “Comparing the T05 trigger to the T06: Part 3

  1. Hi guys !
    I was thinking about buying Diana 280 177cal ,i think 280 is the prettiest air rifle in medium price range -now i was thinking -has anyone of you guys have that rifle -in short i want to know is it a good rifle ,accurate etc.( it is a good looking one ) ?
    One thing i see and can’t ignore -why plastic sights on such a nice gun :( !?


    • Milan,

      They (Diana, in this case) think airgunners don’t care about sights. They think we will all mount scopes, so who cares anyway?

      They are wrong, when it comes to real airgunners, but they are correct when it comes to first-time young buyers who don’t know what quality is. And since there are many more of them than there are experienced airgunners, they do what they do.

      B.B.


      • That’s a real shame too, because Diana used to make one of the best front sights for a factory rifle (hooded, with interchangeable inserts.) At least they haven’t compromised their fine rear sight for cost cutting measures.


        • I bought two of the rws diana front globe sights that accept inserts from pyramyd air. This was awhile back. I can’t find them on their site anymore but it would be worth a call to see if they have any left. As I recall, the dovetails that diana machines for their front globe sights are narrower than most. A weihrauch front globe wouldn’t fit. PA also has the terrific micrometer rear sights for the diana guns. PA also has the nice rear sights and front globe sights that accept inserts for weihrauch guns.

          kevin



        • Yup, it did. I thought I might be missing replys to older posts but is they are down the list more than 12 entries I’d never see them.

          Is there a valid reason why we can’t see at least the last 50 entries? I think those of us who visit the blog daily wouldn’t need more than that. I know you said a new feed was under construction but really all we would need IMHO is the last 50. Might even settle for the last 30.


          • Chuck,

            Still working on that. I was told that anything more than 12 comments on the feed caused some issue on Pyramyd Air’s new website. I don’t know the connection, but I was told what to look for. Well, the same thing’s happening on the new site while the comment feed was limited to 12 comments Friday, Saturday and Sunday morning.

            I opted to temporarily change the # of comments in the feed to 50 (I’d prefer it to be at least 100 or let the reader select the number of comments they want to get…up to 500). I’m sure there will be more discussion on this when work starts up again on Monday. A comment feed is completely useless if you can’t get all the comments!

            Edith


    • Hi Milan,

      What have you been up to lately? I just took a look at the Diana 280 and fell in love. The review I read was very complementary. The checkering pattern is striking. The bluing is vintage Diana’s–dark and very well done. It has the TO6 trigger. Most importantly though is that it’s an interesting rifle, i.e., very accurate. I’d say go for it and write us a blog please.

      Bruce


      • Hi Bruce :) !
        I had some private problems i needed to solve .Yeah D280 is a beauty isn’t she ,and it has just enough power for destroying targets and things :) …i’ll try to make a blog but i just don’t have enough time right now …



  2. Update on the ratcheting sound during the cocking cycle: Last night I turned the spring around and voila – problem solved. They should really have a front and rear label on those things! Just kidding, I did however check for burrs on the sleeve (none), put some more tar on the spring (I was too sparing before after comparing what Vince left on the 94 I compared) and turned the spring around. No ratcheting! Seriously, I think that turning the spring around changed the angle in relation to the piston because the spring is canted. So it really did solve the problem. For whatever it’s worth in case someone else experiences something similar – you don’t have to live with it.


    • Fused,

      I’m glad you have solved your problem. But it’s now time to think about replacing that mainspring. Once they start to cant, there is no stopping the degradation that will follow.

      B.B.


      • I thought as much, so I measured everything while I had it apart. Unfortunately, Mr. Macarri discontinued the only spring that he carried that would fit. I’ll contact the reseller and see if they can get one.


    • Fused

      Pardon my ignorance, what is a 94? Vince certainly has a way with wrenches doesn’t he? I purchased a TechForce from him.


      • Ah! I never pass up an opportunity to spread the word about my RWS 94! I love that rifle. I got one from Vince a while ago. I think he bought a truck load of refurbs from RWS and was reselling them. I was just then looking for my first adult air rifle. It’s kind of a long story, and I’ve already told it before on the blog, but to summarize Wayne and Vince have been very, very good to me. Anyway, the 94 has turned out to be, by comparison, the smoothest – easiest cocking – most accurate – easy to hold air rifle that I have tried to date. I has overcome the venerable RWS 34 (i.e. the princess, which I hated) and the Beeman RS2 (AR 1000, Tech Force 89 which after a re-build was a smooth shooter, but not very accurate). If you ever see one advertised, based on my experience, it is a great rifle. The only downfall is that the trigger has a lot of ‘grittyness’ to it. It actually has a crisp stage 2 let off, but the pull through stage 1 feels like they cut the pieces with a hack saw. I have taken the trigger apart and gently cleaned up the edges, which has helped. Bottom line – it’s a great rifle that nobody knows about. In comparison to the 34, it’s like VHS and Betamax. I have no idea why one went away and the other stayed, but they certainly didn’t make the same decision that I would have. Oh, and it has a hooded front sight that accepts inserts and a great metal rear sight.



        • Slinging – as I recall they are Cometa made, which is not bad. I had a new old stock in .177 that I liked better than my FWB 124. But I ruined the stock trying to refinish it, fit and finish is nowhere near a Germany rifle but they where cheap and much better than the Chinese stuff.


          • I suppose your summary is accurate enough. Mine may be an exceptional example, after all it was ‘gone through’ by Vince before I got it.


            • Thanks guys!

              I feel a little less stupid now. I was completely unaware of this rifle.

              It must be worth a look if it compares favorably with an FWB 124. And thanks for the link to the archive.


  3. Morning B.B.,

    Nice review on the trigger–thanks much! Sure am looking forward to the review on theBKL Adjustable scope mount and the optional level. Folks if you buy one I am strongly recommending the level also. Got a scope with an internal level that I truly love and have a level attached to my Talon SS’s frame which didn’t take long to get used to using.

    Bruce


    • Hi, Bruce. Yeah, that Sun Optics (right?) scope of yours with the integral level was very nice. Sun Optics doesn’t seem to get too much respect in the marketplace, so I imagine you’re either a trailblazer, or the proud owner of a collector’s item. Combined with your ridiculously bright laser, your talon is totally plinkalicious, and I bet it’s wicked on the hunt. It’s a small world: I bet your laser is some sort of SDI relic that Pete Z. helped to design or test.

      Al Otter was nice enough to give me a bubble level the other day. It clamps right onto a dovetail rail. I’m interested to see how much of a serial canter I am. But now, I’m wondering how I, um, level my level! I’ve heard of leveling your scope reticle against a plumb bob, and leveling your action against a carpenter’s level. What rituals do you folks use to get some confidence that your rifle action is square with your scope reticle, and with your level? I have a feeling that, if I just blindly clamp my new level to my dovetails, that little bubble isn’t going to be telling me very much…

      Thanks,
      Jan


      • GenghisJan,
        I don’t think the level has to be attached so micro-precise. If you think the cross hair is verticle and the bubble is in center that’s good enough. I think what is important is that you make sure the bubble is always in the same place for each shot before you pull the trigger. And yes, it’s amazing how easy it is to be canted and not realize it. It’s equally amazing how one thinks their canted but they’re really not. A level tells a lot and gives an extra boost of confidence.


        • Chuck and GenghisJan,

          I don’t know what, if anything, some of the folks have said but, here is mt 2cents worth.
          I level the gun and then the scope to the gun. Too many times I found that the cross hairs weren’t perfectly vertical. It sure can not hurt.

          Bruce


  4. One of the reasons I sold my airwolf mct was because of the electronic trigger. It was adjusted to mere ounces but didn’t have a first stage. Reminded me of clicking the mouse while at my computer.

    kevin


    • Kevin,
      That is a very good, and subtle, point. I’ve felt triggers like that, and also didn’t like them. Very interesting!
      Victor


  5. I thought that the bubble-level was only important at extreme distances. Otherwise, I would find it more of a hindrance and a distraction than a help (although I have noticed lately how much I cant certain rifles). It is astonishing how many people in high places like the writers of the official Soviet manual for the Mosin Nagant as well as gunwriters for big publications advise an incremental trigger pull where you apply pressure when the sight picture is exactly right and stop the pressure when it is not. Presumably, the gun will go off at the right moment with this method. The resetting trigger here would not work for these folks, but it wouldn’t bother me since that shooting method would drive me nuts. It’s like in calligraphy technique where instead of painting in one line at a time, you do the whole thing in a single burst of concentration.

    Edith, hold on, I could swear that somewhere on the blog, B.B. wrote: “I am rarely if ever sarcastic.” So, he was holding it back the hold time; he must have been grievously tempted in some cases.

    Victor, I believe there is a proverb in the Bible that says, “The wicked man puts up a bold front while the upright and honest man is reflective.” Maybe this is what Tolstoy was talking about since your honest man will lose initiative here whatever the merits of his case. I’ve seen this in action especially in a recent episode about which I will have more to say shortly.

    Matt61



    • Matt,

      No, the bubble level is also very important at close range. You can be up to six inches off-target at 50 yards from cant.

      It’s the middle distances (100-25 yards) and the larger game hunting (deer and so) that cant isn’t so important. For target work it is important at every distance.

      B.B.


    • It is astonishing how many people in high places like the writers of the official Soviet manual for the Mosin Nagant as well as gunwriters for big publications advise an incremental trigger pull where you apply pressure when the sight picture is exactly right and stop the pressure when it is not. Presumably, the gun will go off at the right moment with this method.

      I think if you really study the technique, it likely is not “apply”/”stop” the pressure but “increase/pull” vs “hold”. You are not supposed to let your finger move away from the trigger; granted, their may be a sense of reduced pressure as your finger pad and trigger reach equilibrium (the point where an increase in pressure — by pulling back on the trigger — is needed to start the trigger mechanism moving again.


    • Matt61,
      I look forward to hearing your story. Boy, have I seen some doozies myself. I was a young engineer when I realized what some people were capable of doing, once they realized what they could get away with. The capacity to have shame, or a conscious, stops most of us from abusing a situation.
      Victor



    • twotalon,

      Vortek has never scragged their springs. The solution if you need one is to use a threaded rod and nuts and washers to squash the spring full-length. Do it for a couple hours and the spring will be scragged.

      B.B.


  6. But if you currently own a T01 or a T05 trigger, I wouldn’t plan to change it.

    No plans — Once I discovered my T01 had shipped with no first stage, and a looooonnnnggg creepy second stage. I just need to find time now to ensure I haven’t put the second stage onto knife-edge engagement… But that defined stop after the first stage pull is lovely!



      • Once I managed to get a true 2-stage feel in it, I can believe it (pity one can’t visually observe the engagement while adjusting it — since it needs to be cocked to test).

        What I can not believe is that it shipped with absolutely no first stage with the full trigger travel put on the second stage. The screw was all the way in. My best guess is the liability lawyers of the time managed to scare someone in the supply chain to set for long hard creep as a safety measure.

        I now have the first stage screw just touching the linkage when cocked, and the second stage somewhere near knife edge; need to find time to set up a pellet trap while making the last adjustments (I’d already had too many dry-fires for the piston getting it this far that I finally started shoving pairs of felt cleaning wads just to give the piston some back pressure).


  7. B.B.,
    The feel (characteristics) of a trigger are very personal. I’ve noticed that since I severely damaged my hands breaking a steering wheel off from the column, that I’m now hyper sensitive to trigger pull execution throughout my whole hand. I have to have a firm feel of the trigger, first, before squeezing all the way through. I don’t remember having to be so conscious of this “feeling” in the past. Crispness matters more than ever to me. It sounds like I might have preferred the TO5 trigger, but only practice with it would tell. To a new shooter of a particular rifle, if they used that rifle almost exclusively, it probably wouldn’t matter.

    Good report!
    Victor


  8. Seems like Diana’s triggers are getting progressively worse! I don’t own a 34 but a 34P is (was now?) top on the list for my next purchase. They have changed the most beautiful synthetic stock I ever saw to one that looks like it has not completed the manufacturing process and added a new trigger with creep to boot? Light and predictable as it is, a trigger with creep sucks. I think I have missed the boat and am in the used market for a T05 34P! Sorry about the rant BB but I think any improvement should be for the better. What the name of the the genius who said “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”?


  9. It could be personal preference, or the feel and adjustability of the RWS 54 T01 trigger, that feels more natural then the T05 trigger, I have put several thousand pellets through six different RWS guns over the last 20 years plinking n such, and the older guns are more accurate and feels more natural.

    I’m sure most of this is personal preference and time in the saddle, so the speak. RWS makes a great gun, though I do enjoy Gamo and Crosman to.

    Buy a gun and go shooting you’ll will have a good time. Buy a great gun with a scope and have an amazing time guaranteed.

    MrEthiopian


    • Once you figure out HOW to adjust it…

      My RWS m54 with the T01 was shipped with no first stage pull, and a second stage that creeps along for what felt like half an inch.

      After a decade or two, I found a web site describing cutting a notch under the first stage screw to give it more travel… Didn’t help my case — until I found out the problem was the second stage was all the way down… I still need to fine-tune it, but I now have a fairly long first stage (I only took out enough to get rid of the “no contact” movement), and the second stage is a distinct stacking near the end of the travel. Not quite yet to the glass-rod snapping feel but much better than it had been.


      • I should point out — in that decade or so I still haven’t used up a tin of pellets (I think I doubled the firing cycles last summer, when I dumped 50 or so at the range… and still don’t have down to a small group at medium range)


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