by B.B. Pelletier
AirForce Talon SS is a whole shooting system.
Today is Part 2, the velocity test of the AirForce Talon SS. With an AirForce rifle, this could easily be three separate reports by itself because there’s so much flexibility built into the rifle that it takes that long to explain it all. The rifle isn’t complex, but the adjustable power and barrel options give the shooter a world of possibilities to explore.
I’m testing a box-stock Talon SS in .22 caliber. My rifle is around 10 years old, so it’s broken-in. New Talon SS rifles may not do what mine does right from the box, but keep shooting them a while and they’ll settle in like this one did.
Normally in the velocity test, I pick a range of pellets to test, but today I’ve selected only two. These are the two most accurate pellets in this rifle, and I don’t shoot anything else. What this allows me to do is show you what the adjustability looks like in operation.
Power setting 10
I learned many years ago that my SS likes power setting 10. Adjusting it higher only gets a few extra f.p.s., but the air is exhausted much faster. I get about 35 powerful shots from the 12-inch .22-caliber Lothar Walther barrel that comes with the rifle on power setting 10, and I’ll show you what that gives me. Refer back to Part 1 to see the power adjustment mechanism and what the settings look like.
The first pellet I shot was the 14.3-grain Crosman Premier. For many years, this was the hands-down best pellet in my SS and also in the hundreds of SS rifles I tested at the AirForce factory, where I used to work as technical director (2003-2005). I used to mount scopes on rifles that were sold directly and then I sighted them in. For this, I used the Crosman Premier pellet. I also tested every rifle that was sent in for repairs — including several that were simply sent in because their owner’s claimed they weren’t accurate. In the latter cases, I always tried calling the owner to ascertain what was going wrong, because in all cases except one the rifles were always deadly accurate. I may have had to clean the barrel, but afterward it always shot great.
I had only 23 yards of distance inside the old factory, so that was the distance at which the gun was tested, but I have shot the SS at 50 yards so much that I could extrapolate what it would do from a 23-yard group. The standard was about a 3/8-inch group of five at 23 yards, and, with one exception in three years of testing, that’s what I almost always got. In a couple cases, I got a quarter-inch group, and I envied the owners of those special barrels! By the way, this is where I developed my 10-minute sight-in procedure.
At power setting 10, my SS (filled to 3,000 psi) gets an average 854 f.p.s. with Crosman Premiers. The range is from 850 to 860, so the spread is 10 f.p.s. At the average velocity, the rifle produces 23.16 foot-pounds. This is fast for an SS at power setting 10. Most of the brand-new rifles I’ve tested get from 820-830 f.p.s. on the same setting, but as I said earlier, once they break in they go a little faster.
Then, I tested the JSB Exact 15.9-grain dome. This is now the best pellet in my SS, having passed the Premier a number of years ago. And that’s in both the factory 12-inch barrel as well as the optional 24-inch barrel I usually have on the rifle. On power setting 10, this pellet averages 823 f.p.s., with a spread from 821 to 825 f.p.s. That gives us a muzzle energy of 23.92 foot-pounds.
Can the rifle give more energy?
The short answer is yes. By loading heavier pellets, you’ll get increasingly higher energies. An SS is good for a bit more than 25 foot-pounds; but if you want to hit what you shoot at with my rifle, you’ll shoot either of the two pellets already mentioned.
Power setting 6
Okay, let’s back off the power and see what happens. On power setting 6, my rifle shoots Premiers at an average 787 f.p.s. The spread is from 775 to 800 f.p.s., so it has jumped from a 10 f.p.s. spread to a 25 f.p.s. spread. At lower power settings, you can expect your Talon SS to shoot less consistently than it does on higher power. However, you aren’t going to shoot 50-yard groups on power setting 6 if you want to do well, so it really doesn’t matter. At 25 yards, you won’t be able to see a difference between the rifle on 6 and 10. At 6, the pellet produces 19.67 foot-pounds, so it’s still as strong as many powerful spring rifles. The benefit of this setting is more shots per fill, but I get so many shots on power setting 10 that I never use anything else.
The heavier JSB pellets average 778 f.p.s. on setting 6. They range from 769 to 785 f.p.s., so the spread is a bit tighter than with Premiers. And the average energy with this pellet on setting 6 is 21.38 foot-pounds.
Power setting 0
I then adjusted the power as low as it will go. I call it setting 0, though there is no zero on the adjustment scale. On this setting, the rifle is quieter than a Red Ryder BB gun. Crosman Premiers average 486 f.p.s. with a spread from 451 to 522 f.p.s. The velocity has really opened up at this low setting. You can live with it if the distance is 10 meters or less, or you can bump the power up to setting 2 (on my rifle) and cut the velocity spread in half. At that setting, the velocity will average about 520 f.p.s. On setting 0, the power averages 7.5 foot-pounds, or just about what you get from a Diana 27 breakbarrel in good shape.
JSB Exacts 15.9-grain pellets average 507 f.p.s,. on setting 0 and they range from 492 to 521. Once more they produced the tighter spread, and this time they went faster, as well. They produced 9.08 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle.
Shot No. 35
People want to know how many shots a PCP has and the answer is always, “That depends.” In this case, the 35th full-power shot from the rifle set on power setting 10 was a Crosman Premier at 837 f.p.s. Remember, we were getting an average of 854 f.p.s. on this setting in the beginning of the fill. That should give you an idea of how many shots you can expect from a single fill.
Adjusting the top hat
The top hat refers to the end of the valve that is struck by the striker (through the bolt) when the rifle fires. It looks like an old top hat in profile. Back before the Talon rifle came out in 2001, AirForce rifles had no power adjustment mechanism. So shooters would put an o-ring under the top hat to cushion the blow from the striker. You could run the gun without the o-ring, which was wide open, or use the o-ring and get twice the number of shots at reduced power.
Another way to adjust power on that old model was to adjust the clearance under the top hat, so the valve opened for more or less time, depending on what you did. You loosened a single small Allen screw (just one in the old days) and screwed the top hat up or down to suit your intention. That is where the top hat adjustment came into being.
When the Talon first came out with its power adjuster, it was no longer necessary to adjust the top hat, but many owners didn’t get the memo and continued adjusting it anyway. The top hat can still be adjusted today; but it’s set at 0.080 inches from the factory on a Talon and a Talon SS, and there’s no good reason to change that setting. My tank is about a decade old, and its top hat has never been adjusted.
The space under the silver “top hat” (above the center of this picture) controls how far the valve opens and how long it remains open. Leave it alone. The bolt is pushed forward to cock the rifle and for showing the top hat in this photo.
Does adjusting the top hat change anything? Yes, it does. It changes the way the power adjustment mechanism affects the gun. Changing the top hat is like changing the tire size on your car. When you do, the speedometer doesn’t work correctly anymore, because it is calibrated to the original tire size.
My advice is to leave the top hat right where it is when you get the gun, unless you get it used from someone who has adjusted it. It that is the case, set it to 0.080 inches of clearance (Talon and Talon SS) and leave it alone.
Trigger
The trigger on a Talon SS is two-stage, and the factory rates it at 2.5-3.5 lbs. Mine, which has never been serviced in any way, probably has 10,000 shots on it and breaks at 25-27 oz. — just a shade under 2 lbs. It has no creep in stage two, though most brand-new triggers do have a little.
The safety is automatic, and you can usually push it off with your trigger finger. Some new guns are too stiff to do this; but when they’re broken in, most safeties are easy to release this way.
The trigger parts are case hardened and coated with a film of moly that lasts a lifetime. You never oil the trigger, as that will attract and hold dirt — but the dry moly coating leaves the steel parts looking silvery.
AirForce triggers used to be adjustable; but when they developed the current design, they removed that feature. The adjustment was for stage one, only. Stage two takes care of itself, as it must, since the trigger parts move as the gun is cocked. So they need to be free-moving to align perfectly every time. Don’t trust any aftermarket modifications, because many of them are not safe. I’ve seen them slip off the sear without external intervention.
Is it quiet?
Yes, and no. Compared to the precharged guns without silencers that preceded it, the SS is quiet. But it’s not silenced. To a shooter who has experience with a Korean PCP, it’ll sound quiet. Compared to a fully silenced PCP, it seems loud. At power setting 10, it’s as loud as a magnum spring rifle. On power setting 4, it sounds like a Sheridan Blue Streak on three pumps. On power setting 0, it’s quieter than a Daisy BB gun. If those comparisons mean nothing to you, on power setting 10 it sounds like hands clapping loudly.
We could continue
There are many power settings I haven’t tested in this report. I hope the ones I did test demonstrate the range of power that’s available. Between settings 2 and 6, the power changes very rapidly as the adjuster changes; then from 6 to the top, the changes are slower. The rifle is most stable around power setting 10. Each rifle will differ, and each rifle will also change as it breaks in — getting faster with time if left alone.
If you buy a Talon SS and don’t own a chronograph, don’t worry — all you have to do is adjust it to the setting that gives the best accuracy. That’s going to be somewhere near setting 10 on the coarse setting and forget what the number on the power wheel says.
I’ve also told you the two very best pellets for my rifle. Because I’ve tested so many of these guns, I know that these pellets will work well in any of them. That’s not to say that a better pellet won’t come along someday, but for right now — these two are the best.
Next, we’ll mount a scope and see what sort of accuracy we get from the rifle.
Let me know when you want to move this one on to someone else. : )
RR,
Can’t get rid of this one. It’s too accurate and dependable! 😉
B.B.
Good Morning B.B.,
You’re testing my favorite air rifle. Lets throw in the optional C02 adapter to further show case the versatility of The Talon SS.
I keep the 12″ barrel running on C02 for 90% of my shooting since it’s in the city and my range is only 15 yards. I don’t need or want the power of HPA or the 24″ barrel. If the occasional opossum comes a calling, it’s a simple matter to switch to air, turn the power wheel to number 8 and take care of business.
However, the 24″ barrel is my choice for walking the woods back home. This link is to a post by Tim McMurray from 2009 about adjusting the AirForce rifles http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1230830998/Air+Force+Sweet+Spot+101
Bruce
You’re probably only wounding the possums not killing them.
But they do go *elsewhere* after they’ve been shot with an airgun!
Flobert,
I’ve had the pleasure of shooting with Mr. B. He is a consummate marksman, and he’s got plenty of gun. He doesn’t shoot to wound.
-Jan
Cool.
Early this morning, B.B. left for the NRA meetings/show in St. Louis. His time to answer blog questions will be very limited, so it would helpful if our regulars would chip in more than usual to answer questions.
Thanks,
Edith
BB or Edith or someone who can help
Having been reading your blog for years but this is the first time I need help.
Trying to decide on a Talon SS or a Air Arms TX200 III both in .22 caliber, but cannot find a decent pellet recomendation for the TX200 in .22. I have found a vague recomendation for Crossmen Priemers but no ‘THIS PELLET IS GREAT!’ like for the Talon. By far, most of the reviews I have found have been for .177 caliber.
Thanks for any help!
AJ
Aljoh,
I’d say the vast majority of TX200 rifles sold are .177 caliber, so it stands to reason that most of the customer reviews are about that caliber. B.B. doesn’t own a .22-cal. TX200, so he can’t recommend an outstanding pellet. Of course, even if he could, it might not be the best pellet for every .22 TX200. Hopefully, someone else on the blog has a .22 TX and can give you some guidance on what they’ve found.
Edith
Aljoh,
Seems that crosman premiers in the cardboard box, jsb 15.8gr 5.52 head size and beeman fts pellets are usually the most accurate pellets in .22 caliber TX200’s. Of course you’ll never know which pellet is best in your gun until you test all pellets.
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=003406156692634343115%3Ap-lxj1iav9m&ie=UTF-8&q=tx200+best+pllet&siteurl=www.google.com%2Fcse%2Fhome%3Fcx%3D003406156692634343115%3Ap-lxj1iav9m&ref=www.network54.com%2FForum%2F79537%2F#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=tx200%20best%20pellet%2022
Are you trying to make a choice of which gun to buy based on a pellet it may like?
kevin
Kevin,
No, I was not basing my selection on pellets. I want both guns but finances say ‘YOU MUST CHOOSE’!
I don’t have the time to try a whole bunch of pellets so I was looking for good solid starting points.
I was about to pull the trigger on the Talon SS until you gave me the info I needed. Thank you so much for your help and the link you provided! I ordered the TX200 in .22 with a walnut stock today. I am happy! I guess I really wanted the springer anyway since I already have a Marauder.
Thanks again Kevin,
AJ
AJ,
Congratulations on the new TX 200!
Please let us know your impressions after you’ve shot about 500 pellets through it for the token break in period.
kevin
Aljoh,
I own a AA TX200 Mk3 .22 with a Leepers Bug Buster 3x9x32 on top. My best results have been achieved with first JSB 15.9 grains 5.52 heads, then HN FTT 14.66 grains 5.53 heads out to 75 yrds where if I am doing my part I get 2.5 inch groups.
Bear
Bear,
Thanks so much for the pellet info, I ordered my TX200 today along with the pellets you recomended.
I now have a starting point at least to begin testing for that ‘BEST’ pellet for my springer!
Thanks again Bear appreciate it…
AJ
Aljoh,
And we would all enjoy hearing about your new rifle after you become acquainted with it!
B.B.
does anyone know how the noise level of the talon ss compares to something like a benjamin marauder?
Bub,
if we use BB’s reference to a Talon on setting one sounding like a Blue Streak on 3 pumps and a loud clap on setting ten (I think of a loud clap as that obnoxious son of a gun sitting behind you at a sporting event that claps right in your ear and leaves it ringing), the Marauder is much quieter than the Blue Streak on 3 pumps. I own two Streaks and two Marauders (.177 and .22) and the Maruader is amazingly quiet. When I am shooting either one, all I hear is the metallic “ping” of the striker hitting the air release valve inside the rifle. By the way, they are easily the most accurate rifles I own.
Fred DPRoNJ
Got mine sounding about like my 397 with half a pump. Quieter with the micro tank.
twotalon
Thanks guys, I’m currently running a Discovery and looking to upgrade to something quieter. If I can only talk myself into buying another gun. Bub
Bub,
if you don’t have one, you may be interested in what this fellow sells – http://www.tko22.com. I have one on my Discovery (middle size) and it’s quiet enough that I don’t have to close the basement door and worry about disturbing Spike, the pet Cocketiel (whose picture is on the left).
Fred DPRoNJ
I meant my other left.
Bub,
Both rifles are very accurate. If your prime criteria is quietness then the Marauder is the one to get. Fred has described the Marauder sound correctly. With my .22 Marauder I hear the hammer ping and a then a pop created when the pellet hits the target. So, I suppose the little ping drowns out the report. That’s pretty quiet. I don’t know what it would sound like if I stood in front of the barrel instead of behind the stock, but behind the stock it’s as Fred said.
-Chuck
B.B.’s first report said that the Marauder sounds like dropping a pen onto a thick carpet. That’s plenty quiet enough for me–pretty amazing for such a high-powered gun.
Matt61
B.B., TwoTalon,
or whoever owns a Talon and uses it for target shooting. Is this rifle too light for target or field target shooting? I have always liked the Talon but I am not sure it is the best or even a good choice, especially for field target competition if I need more add-ons than I need for say an Air Arms PCP. Ability to switch barrels and of adding stuff to it is very attractive though
Cheers
T.E.
I guess I meant to say “for field target competition and get good results with it.”
TE,
I’m not sure you’d be allowed to use this in field target competition. Usually, powerful guns are not permitted (the damage the targets). I am unsure if clubs will allow you to compete with it even if you promise to dial it down. What’s to prevent someone from dialing it back up during the match?
Edith
It’s going to be way too light, and does not have anything resembling good ergonomics.
I plink with mine once in a while for practice, but I mostly use it to kill things.
twotalon
TE,
Edith’s comment makes mine moot, but in all fairness, in my opinion, as much as I really, really like my Talon SS, the tank, which is the stock, will annoy you greatly when you are trying to do highly precise, competition shooting, even if you could, as she explained. As for twotalon’s comment about weight I think that is relative, of course, based upon your physiological make up. I do not consider it to be light – BB or Kevin might. Both are larger than I (come on, I didn’t mean fat. I just would want you guys on my side in a bar fight).
-Chuck
Well, thank you all for the replies. I shoot very well with my TX200, one of the reaons being that it is up there in the 10+ lb level with scope and everything. I was just trying to find an excuse to get a Talon as I really like the system but I mostly do target shooting with my airguns.
Maybe I can justify it as a research expense. With so many possible configurations and settings, I could do great research on ballistics
Cheers
TE,
The Condor/Talon is a lot like a US FT in loading and ease of changing barrels…. you might consider it for field target, if flexibility in fit to body and accuracy are your goals….
Your TX200 might actually out shoot the Condor on the FT field.. IF you were allowed to shoot a Condor. I’d let you, and trust you would keep it dialed down… but, as B.B. noted, at lower power levels it’s not as accurate.. and the better fitting and just as accurate TX200, would mostly out shoot it.
If you’re starting the FT game, you’ll become a master shooting a TX200. After shooting the TX a year.. Strap on a good PCP like a USFT, Air Arms EV2, or FWB P70 FT..with a good FT stock and you’ll be kickin butt! You can customize a Marauder for a lot less and do just about as well as those $2,000 rigs too… I know, my buddy Bob Pont is right on my butt with his customized, FT stocked Marauder.. and me with, my best shooting USFT!
Shooting a spring gun forces one to use “follow through”.. do that with an accurate PCP, and you’ll be in the top percentage of shooters real quick.
Wacky Wayne Burns,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Hi Edith and all,
first, wishing BB a safe trip to St. Louie. Second, for the many Talon owners here especially TwoTalon, are there any after market stocks that would fit over the air pressure container and give this rifle a more standardized look and allow a “normal” hold when shooting?
Fred DPRoNJ
I have seen some custom made ones of different styles, but don’t know where to send you for seeing them.
twotalon
Look at Talon Tunes site and you will see some that sound like what you are looking for. I asked about them a while back and he said he had one left. They may be made by FX. Three of their models use what look to be the exact same “stock”.
I made three days at work and then slept for almost 12 hours. Recovery is going well, albeit slowly.
The more I learn about the airforce airguns the more I think I would like to have one. I hope to make the 90 minute drive to El Campo and see them up close before long.
I was checking out the Evanix Max bullpup shown above and ended up on the Evanix site. I can’t help but share this one with you.
http://www.evanix.com/giant_x2.html
Ken
Good progress, Ken! I wish I could say that I don’t normally sleep for 11-12 hours on my first day off…. Keep up the good work!
/Dave
/Dave, there are definitely times when I would rather sleep than almost anything else I can think of. Being a bit over 60 and having a two tier spine surgery is not energizing, although thankfully it still looks like I will continue to improve.
Thanks for the good wishes.
Ken
Good to know you’re doing better Ken.
That’s some nice looking airgun!
The MAX bullpup looks menacing and so does that Giant X2, they seem to come straight out of a sci-fi movie.
J-F
J-F, after I saw that Giant X2 I told someone it looks like a science fiction storm trooper weapon. So, I’m with you on that. It’s a little more menacing looking than the airforce airguns, but I had to get used to the appearance of those also.
Ken
WOW! Did you see it has two tanks? I wonder how many shots that gets?
-Chuck
Chuck, I noticed the two tanks right off, and I wondered if they got the idea for the rear tank from the airforce folks. Did you notice that it comes in four calibers, from .177 to .357? I wonder if the customer can change the barrels as we can on the airforce airguns.
Ken
Ken,
Evanix has a two-tank model already for sale in the U.S…the Monster:
/product/evanix-monster-sidelever-pcp-air-rifle?m=2133
Edith
Thanks for that info, Edith. I think all of this attests to the interest and purchases of airguns. We have so many options theses days. Only a bit of serious research can separate the winners from the also rans.
Ken
Edith, the Monster looks a lot like the Giant (not X2) on the Evanix site. I realize it may be modified somewhat for export to the U.S. Information on the two sites suggests the Monster may weigh close to a pound less than the Giant (and Pyramydair is offering only two calibers rather than five; but .177 and .22 are the most popular calibers so it makes sense).
Ken
Ken,
The Monster & the Giant are completely different guns. The Monster is a simple repeater. The Giant is full-/semi-auto. The Giant was developed along with the current lot of Evanix full-/semi-auto guns: Max bullpup and Conquest & Speed rifles. The Monster has been in the U.S. & on sale at Pyramyd AIR for about a year…maybe longer.
Edith
Thanks Edith, I missed a few details when I looking at the specs.
Ken
Okay, now I see the Monster Premium on the Evanix site. Amazing!
Sheesh! The menu item says Monster Premium but the actual page shows the Standard and the Premium, with the cylinder material being the difference.
Must be time for a nap 🙂
Ken
Ken,
Glad to hear you’re doing well, and I hope you get stronger quickly. Are you out of the cervical collar?
I’m coming along very slowly. The trip to New Mexico took all my strength, particularly piled on top of 4 days in Atlanta on business the week before. And there have been some consequences nobody warned me about, for example that most food tastes bloody awful and that without as much saliva as before, I’m constantly thirsty. I’ve never taken so long to heal up and get strength back.
pete
Pete, I am sorry to hear you are having these complications. It seems that we really need to grow wiser as we age because our bodies are not cooperating. Still, I do hope you begin to have some relief. I can see how a fair amount of travel can wear you out.
I still have the brace on. The doc said I could sleep without it but the past couple of nights I felt better keeping it on. I think he is looking at six months total. From what I read, being 60+ and having two tiers done at the same time are risk factors. I am using the bone growth stimulator four hours every day. I don’t want to deprive myself of an little bit of help I can get. I expect I will well note the changes when three vertebrae become one (and hopefully they will because I’ll be in a pickle if they don’t, now). The doc will take another look in early May.
Just now I am a bit apprehensive. A short while I ago I noticed what I am sure if blood where I definitely don’t want to see any. I had some other mild symptoms which have come and gone for years, but this is new. I won’t panic though. It wouldn’t do any good. I’ll probably see my primary physician tomorrow unless I find a need to go to the ER (hopefully not).
Best to you Pete,
Ken
Pete,
I remember Tom’s constant thirst after his surgeries. His mouth was always dry and his tongue or the back of his mouth was coated. Turns out he had thrush. None of the drugs worked. I finally gave him a supplement that I knew would work, and that finally got rid of it. He no longer loses his voice and his mouth isn’t constantly dry.
Edith
Edith,
This isn’t thrush. They actually removed one of the two large salivary glands, so automatically there’s a lot less saliva available for production and use. Discussions with the surgeon indicate that the taste problem is from disturbing the nerves during surgery, and they should heal up over 6 months or so.
Some possibility, not much, that the left gland may take up some of the slack over a year or so.
p
Pete,
My bad…I forgot what type of surgery you had :-\
Recovery isn’t the easy task that healthy people think it is. It’s real work and requires diligence that you don’t push yourself too hard.
Edith
I hope they hurry up and recoup their research cost because $165 is insane. I’d ask for a Talon SS version of that stock they show on the Condor, too, but I’ll bet it costs an insane amount also.
-Chuck
I have a condor. To date I don’t have a finer airgun. So far I haven’t got to take it hunting but I think it will be up for the challenge. This gun had my respect the instant I held it.
The “zero” adjustment would be all I need. Quiet, low powered, accurate is what I need/want.
J-F
J-F,
If I read your comment right then you’re not hunting, so I would also recommend you go with the .177 version. That’s what I have. However, the .177 still makes noise in the manner described for the .22. Very loud clap, maybe louder, on the 10 setting. Your neighbor will definitely hear that. On the 0 or 2 it sounds like closing a gate on a chain-link fence under its own force. If you have one, try that and see if your neighbor would hear it.
-Chuck
You’re right no hunting for me and I don’t have any pest problems, the dogs take care of everything but skunks (which took care of the dogs, ewww).
But I sadly can’t get this nice piece of airgun because of the full length shroud that quiets the report 🙁
I would definetly get this and turn the power down to shoot in the backyard.
J-F
Talking of dreaming big.
51 years ago humanity made it into space. Soviet Air Force senior lieutenant Yuri Gagarin made a first spaceflight, orbiting our home planet in 108 minutes. He flew “Vostok” spacecraft launched by R-7 rocket constructed by Sergey Korolev (highly modified and many times upgraded and improved R-7 in “Soyuz FG” and “Soyuz-2” versions still launches satellites and men into space). Korolev dreamed about orbiting the Earth himself and colonizing Mars, he became a father of Soviet and Russian space program, but he never got into space.
Google celebrates this date with… eeer, nothing?
duskwight
Memorable day for mankind. I’ll excuse Google for the lack of doodle: it’s the 51st, not the 50th anniversary. If they tried to do every important event every year, they might get to needing 2 and 3 or more doodles on some days.
Google did Gagarin last year, and very nicely:
http://www.google.com/logos/2011/space.html
pz
Pete,
Yes, I remember that, but I guess a simple nod to a manking getting for the first time out from its cradle wouldn’t be too much trouble for Brin’s guys 🙂 After all, it’s spaceflight that provides Google Maps and many other stuff.
duskwight
This feat certainly caught the attention of the American public when it happened. 🙂
Matt61
duskwight,
I will never forget that day! I even own a copy of the watch Gagarin was supposed to have used in space.
I was jealous of him back then, but when I realized how absolutely dangerous those rides were, I gained a new appreciation for his courage.
B.B.
Duskwight,
I accidentally found myself thinking about the Soviet space program earlier today. I was reading up on an upcoming rocket launch that I’ll be able to see from my house. This involves a newly-developed booster that will be delivering cargo to the International Space Station. Turns out this new Antares first stage uses motors derived from the ill-fated Soviet moon rocket. Back in the 70’s, would any of you taken the wager that by 2012, a private-party, commercial American space program would by using 60’s technology from the USSR, which by the way only lasted ’till the early 90’s? What a world we live in. http://spaceflightnow.com/antares/120411pathfinder/
Pete Z., Mr. B., and other mid-Atlantic/East Cost folks: have you seen any of the recent Wallops launches? Good stuff!
I like the AirForce guns. I suppose it’s true that their ergonomics could be better, but I still find them pretty handy. My main beef is the automatic safety – for the automatic-ness, and for the blisters it leaves after a session. Of course, the sessions wouldn’t be long enough to leave blisters if the rifles weren’t so fun and accurate!
-Jan
Good Morning all,
I liked the Condor I had, except for the eye relief issue, caused by the air tank/cheek rest… one could get extra high mounts, but that creates issues too. Here is a solution I would buy if I still had my Condor..
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1334245696/Talon-Condor+Angled+Tank+Adapter….%28PICS%29
I find it interesting that B.B. has discovered that the Crosman 14.3 are no longer the most accurate pellet for his Talon. I wonder what has changed… A lot of accuracy concerned shooters in the field target and the bench rest games have found similar results with the .177 cal CPH too… They use to be the most accurate in the US FTs, but not for me anymore and I’ve heard that from other US FT shooters as well. In 2010 & 2011 we switched to Air Arms version of JSB heavies, and now the latest of those pellets are not the same as the 2009 batches.. and are not shooting well. What gives?
Is it the dies.. do they get warn out? … and when replaced with new ones… are they the same? I think not… but what do the experts say?
Or is it something else, like a small burr on the rifling, that picks up lead particles, gaining in size and eventually, damages the skirts on the way out? I’ve recently taken to polishing my barrels with aluminum wheel polish to remove any burrs, and I think it helps accuracy, and for sure helps accuracy stay longer between cleaning, but the new CPH still don’t shoot like the old ones use to.
I’ve switched to the H&N 10.65 now for my 19fpe rigs, but they vary hugely as well. Most recently, I bought some sleeves of the “Blue Marlin” version labeled for the Manou Bros.. but they closed their doors, and so I won’t be getting any more of them when those 20 tins are gone.
This is a major problem… one has to keep changing pellets, looking for the accuracy one use to have.. not a good thing. You get all your numbers figured out for trajectory, with a pellet, and even the same weight pellet will have a different trajectory depending on the BC. … so you have to start over!
One can get by in the field target game with minor differences, but for bench rest, only the best of the best pellets can produce the sought after 250/250. I’m sure the pellet manufactures are trying their best… or are they? Maybe the sport has grown so much that, they can’t keep up with demand, and so they don’t care about accuracy anymore, when they have a hard time filling orders for the crap they are shipping now… why care:-)
Wacky Wayne,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne,
Yes, dies wear out. I find it interesting that Tom has a steel cabinet filled with all manner of pellets, yet he uses only a few for his tests because only a few are accurate in most guns. It seems that everyone makes pellets, but only a few know how to make them well.
Edith
Wacky Wayne! Imagine that,you posting here with us mere mortals! LOL Interesting observations re: the USFTs.I’m ashamed to say I haven’t used mine (#92) nearly as much as I should.Have you tried JB “Bore Bright”?? It is not nearly as agressive as their “Bore paste”…..I would guess it would be less agressive than Wheel polish? Not sure though.Are you still lubing w/ coconut oil with good result?
My collection sure snowballed after you got me started!
Howdy Frank,
Sorry I don’t stop by more these days.. I’ll make an extra effort. My plans to retire have been put on hold, so I’m not only busy growing the air gun club and preparing for major events like the “Western States Championships and 2012 AAFTA National Field Target Championships, but working many more hours in the raised bed business now… but I’ll try to slip into this blog more often anyway.
I’ve still got a batch of springers I plan to sell sometime I get time to list em.. no room around here with new US FTs piling up (6 now, LV, HV, and Open class Bench rest rigs and two FT open class and one 12fpe International class)… Package deal on the springers? 🙂
I’m totally focused on US FTs for collecting and shooting now. The way things are going in the air gun world, I still think that’s the best bet for collecting dollars to go. It’ll take a few more years, but US FT values will surely rise.. and Tim is always changing things, so any US FT model is fairly unique these days.
Wacky Wayne
“Shoot” me an email when you get the time Wayne…..maybe you can add another one to your stockpile? I’m sure you still have my Email adress……it starts w/ my user name here.I still dream of traveling out west to visit Ashland,and Kevin’s house too 🙂
Will do the email Frank, give me a few hours to make a list of the springers…
Hey, this is the year to make that journey.. swing up north first and pick up Kevin, then the two of you come out for the Western States June 29th- July 1st… or the AAFTA Nationals, Sept. 28th-30th… Even if you don’t compete, lots of fun side shoots and great food and air gun talking and trading will also be happening! … not to mention all the great river fun, rafting, fishing and gold hunting..
ya’ll come now!
Wacky Wayne
Howdy Hey Edith,
Yes, I kind of thought the dies wear out.. and I think most manufactures DO know how to make accurate pellets, but the time and money it takes to do it, keeps the “bean counters” in the company in charge of operations.
I think they figure the folks who do care about accuracy, will do what it takes to find the few accurate pellets that find their way to market… and who cares if they don’t.. we’ve got our production sold anyway.
I find it similar to the continued supply of over powered spring guns that keep coming on the market… even though there is little chance they are accurate enough to even hit a beer can at 50 yards.
This is what we get for growing the sport:-)
Wacky Wayne
Wayne,
Guns are no different than cars. Young drivers generally want fast cars, even if they handle like a pig. As drivers mature, they realize that you’re still going to get from point A to point B, so you might as well enjoy the ride.
Shooters are similar. They want power at first…f-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-l the POWER! Once they get over the original thrill, they often settle down because they realize that they’re not hitting anything they intend and it’s downright embarrassing if not emasculating!
I’m guessing this is a guy thing. I honestly cannot think of one woman I know who wants ripping power at the expense of accuracy. But it appears that there are hundreds of thousands…and probably millions…of men who are willing to sacrifice everything for maximum power.
Edith
Hillary Clinton?? LOL
I’m sorry Edith,you are welcome to delete that.
That’s spelled “Hitlerly”.
twotalon
Edith,
I’m sure you’re right about it being a “Male thing”… the older I get, the more I think like my wife:-)… and that’s a good thing:-)
Wacky Wayne
Ya know we might be looking at this pellet accuracy change from the wrong direction. It could be that they have changed the dies and the new ones are not producing the same pellets as the old ones did. Does any one know really how old the previous dies were, how long they were on the market, when they were new way back when, before they started producing the fine accuracy we are used to.
You guys have me really worried now. I still have a couple boxes of the CP’s in both calibers. Hopefully the new dies will be worn in before I have to reorder. (See, I already believe my own version without a shred of proof).
-Chuck
Daisy Atomic Disintegrator
http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/