by B.B. Pelletier
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
AirForce Talon SS is a whole shooting system.
The report that follows was done in error. I thought I was testing a Micro-Meter air tank, but it turned out that I was really testing a standard air tank.
The corrected test is located here. I am sorry for this inconvenience, but you can click on the link in the sentence above and it will direct you to the correct test.
Today, I’m testing the AirForce Talon SS with the standard 12-inch barrel using the Micro-Meter air tank. This is the setup the tank was designed to use; and although I predicted that this test would look a lot like the last test with the Micro-Meter tank and an optional 24-inch barrel, I was wrong. Today’s test is amazing! It’s an insight into how a precharged airgun operates.
I’ll begin at the end. I fired a total of 340 shots on just one fill, and there was still plenty of air remaining for at least another 150 shots! I saw first hand at the NRA Annual Meetings how the Micro-Meter air tank stays on the line for so long without needing a refill!
But don’t go cashing in those 340 shots just yet. Allow me to explain what I did and how the gun performed.
As before with the longer barrel, the tank was filled to 3,000 psi. That proved to be a mistake in this case. Allow me to show you what I mean.
This time, I didn’t fool around with any pellets other than the .22-caliber Crosman Premier. Everything you’re about to read was achieved with that single pellet.
First 10 shots
The first 10 shots were fired on the lowest power setting and averaged 392 f.p.s., ranging from 347 to 442 f.p.s. That is a large spread, and, as you’ll see shortly, the valve was partially air-locked.
Shots 11-20
The next 10 shots were fired on the highest power setting and averaged 849 f.p.s.! That’s correct, the gun produced 22.89 foot-pounds with the Micro-Meter tank at the highest power setting. The low was 836, and the high was 861 f.p.s. That was clearly not what this tank was designed to do, so I dialed the power back to the halfway point, which corresponds to about the No. 6 on the dial.
Power setting 6
At this setting, the rifle averaged 836 f.p.s., so I stopped at shot 5. The low was 832, and the high was 839 f.p.s. I wasn’t interested in this kind of power from the Micro-Meter tank, and I didn’t want to waste air. So, I dialed back to power setting 2 and continued.
Power setting 2
On power setting 2, the rifle averaged 786 f.p.s. Again, I stopped at 5 shots. The low was 758, and the high was 803 f.p.s. By this, time a total of 30 shots had been fired on the fill. I dialed the power down as low as it would go and continued.
Shots 31-40
The next 10 shots on the lowest power setting averaged 514 f.p.s. The spread went from 487 to 537 f.p.s. It was clear that the valve was now staying open longer, and I would estimate the tank pressure had dropped to 2,800 psi by the start of this string. I could see at this point that this was going to be a long test, though I never imagined how long; so, I shot twenty “blank” shots (dry-fires that had no pellets) just to use up some air. It’s arguable whether shots that have no pellet in front of them use the same amount of air as shots that do have pellets. As you’ll see, it really doesn’t matter that much because we haven’t even started yet!
Shots 61-70
The gun is still on the lowest power setting, and this 10-shot string averaged 574 f.p.s. The low was 550, and the high was 628 f.p.s. After this, I fired another 20 shots with no pellets.
Shots 91-100
The gun is still set at the lowest power. These 10 shots averaged 649 f.p.s. and ranged from 603 to 689 f.p.s. In retrospect, after the test was over, I determined this string to be the start of the useful shots. I estimate the tank had about 2,500 psi at the start of this string — though that would have to be confirmed if the numbers meant enough to you to do the work. They didn’t to me, so 2,500 psi was just my estimate. Now, I fired 20 more blank shots.
Shots 121-130
This string averaged 703 f.p.s. and ranged from 633 to 743 f.p.s. After this, I fired 20 more blank shots
Shots 151-160
This string averaged 750 f.p.s. and ranged from 719 to 766 f.p.s. I would like to note that the rifle is now performing almost exactly the same as a Beeman R1 breakbarrel in .22 caliber! When this string was finished, I fired another 20 blank shots.
Shots 181-190
This string averaged 752 f.p.s. and ranged from 743 to 757 f.p.s. This was the top power the rifle developed in this test, and I would estimate the pressure at the start of this string was around 1,900 psi. The gun will not use air in a linear fashion as the shots increase. As the air pressure in the tank drops, the valve stays open longer. I then fired another 20 blank shots.
Shots 211-220
This string averaged 735 f.p.s and ranged from a low of 727 f.p.s. and a high of 740 f.p.s. Notice how tight these later strings are! You could shoot at 35 yards with the gun shooting like this! And you could also hunt with it. I then fired another 20 blank shots.
Shots 241-250
This string averaged 713 f.p.s. and ranged from 707 to 726 f.p.s. The rifle is slowing down, but the valve is keeping each 10-shot string relatively tight. I then fired another 20 blank shots.
Shots 271-280
This string averaged 688 f.p.s. and ranged from 682 to 694 f.p.s. I then fired another 20 blank shots.
Shots 301-310
This string averaged 659 f.p.s. and ranged from 652 to 664 f.p.s. Notice how tight this string is after 300 shots have been fired! No other air rifle that I know of can do this when running on air. The USFT might be able to, but I haven’t tested it this way to see. I then fired another 20 blank shots.
Shots 331-340
This string averaged 624 f.p.s. and ranged from 613 to 630 f.p.s. This was where I stopped the test; but as you can see, the gun will still continue shooting for a lot longer.
Ending air pressure in the tank
After 340 shots had been fired, the Micro-Meter tank still had 1,200 psi remaining. That isn’t an estimate — I actually determined it by filling the tank and noting when it began accepting a charge. If my estimate about the pressure was correct when I declared the gun to be on the power curve (at shot 91), and if I include all the shots fired after that, then there were a total of 250 useful shots on a fill to 2,500 psi. The gun got those shots on about 1,300 psi of air. That is remarkable when you consider that it was also developing some pretty respectable power at the same time.
Remember what the Micro-Meter tank is for
To accept what I’m saying, you must keep in mind that the Micro-Meter tank is for shooting quietly in your basement. The range I envision is 10 meters, maximum, though we can see that the rifle can actually shoot a lot farther than that. But that’s not the purpose of the tank.
If the starting fill pressure is only 2,500 psi like I suspect, then the Micro-Meter tank can be easily filled from a hand pump. Another good thing about this novel air tank.
If you want to use the adjustable power feature of the gun, the range will be in the lower numbers. After the halfway point on the power scale, the rifle is just wasting air.
I’ve tested the Micro-Meter tank in the past, but never before with the mindset of its real purpose. Now that I have that in mind, this test has revealed an incredible level of performance.
Sure the velocity varied a lot over the useful shot strings; but at 10 meters, I doubt anyone will notice. For plinking and keeping the grandkids amused, the Micro-Meter tank is the lazy man’s PCP!
Next, I plan to test that theory with an accuracy test of this tank and gun combination at 10 meters.
It looks like my FWB 601 will be on the table at the show.
BB,
My heart goes out to anyone here who must remember this day for what it really is – remembering our fallen loved ones. I have a lot of veterans in my family, me included, from WW I, WW II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan but fortunately no personal stake in today’s purpose – so far. I give thanks to God that Edith does not have to remember this day on your behalf for all that you have done and risked for our country.
-Chuck
Just like I always say – don’t make God laugh, don’t voice any plans!
On Friday, when I arrived to transport company I found them bancrupt. Nobody informed me about that and it all seemed ok in the morning when I called them to check if my package has arrived. Warehouses locked and sealed, all property under arrest, marshals lurking here and there.
Company closed, package delivery put to full stop. Grrrreat! “Please wait until Monday 10 am, we’ll be operating in standby mode, delivery of arrived packages only”.
This morning I got there and after an hour and a half long talks with their temporary management and filling tens of sheet of papers I finally got my package. Pictures to follow shortly.
duskwight
duskwight,
What an ordeal you have bbeen through! I hope everything is as you anticipated.
B.B.
No way, I can’t believe it! This is just like me when I tried to pick my Savage police rifle. I show up, and the gun store is closed with a sign saying that they were out of business! I’m telling you that was one of my lows. But in the end, I got the rifle, and it shoots amazingly well and yours will too.
Matt61
B.B.
I am getting nothing like that with my micro. Those are standard tank numbers, but with too long of a shot count. Our valves must be completely different.
Just how loud is that honker compared to your standard tank ? I would estimate that mine runs about 1/3 the noise.
twotalon
TT,
When I dialed the power up to the max, I was surprised that the discharge sounded like a normal Talon SS on full power. Same on power levels 6 and 2. But on low power it was very quiet, though the sound increased as the velocity did.
This tank is a brand new one that AirForce loaned me for this test. I don’t own a MicroMeter tank of my own.
B.B.
They send you the wrong one by any chance? Sounds almost like mine would work if it had a standard Talon valve spring retaining plug.
Mine has a label on the valve neck that says what kind of tank it is. If that fell off, the only way to tell it from a standard tank would be to shoot it.
When I ordered my Condor tank, I got the standard by mistake. One look at the end of the valve told the story.
The box had two different part number labels on it. One for standard and the other for Condor. P.A. looked at the wrong number when they put it on the shelf, or AF put it in the wrong pile…..or both.
twotalon
TT,
I picked it up at the AirForce factory, and there was no box. They just handed it to me from inventory.
B.B.
B.B.
If I remember right, my TSS was shooting at about 600 with Exacts with a full micro (.22 and 16 gr Exacts). Never ran it out as far as I did with the .177 barrel (8.4 gr Exacts).
twotalon
I could tell the difference without the label between the Micro-meter and the regular Condor tank… My Micro-meter has an insert in the opening of the valve hat (sort of a large rolled-pin pressed in leaving a narrow chamber for the air to flow through vs the regular tank having a large diameter)…
Hmm, wonder if striker impacts could cause that insert to back out…
Mine looks identical to the standard tank. The Condor tank has a huge opening compared to the other two kinds.
The tiny pinhole in the valve spring retaining cap should prevent the micro from acting anything like a standard tank.
twotalon
Help with a Crosman 2289 “Backpacker”. For Christmas my spectacular wife found me a Crosman Backpacker in Canada and got it for me. The 1322 was not available last year when I was trying to find something essentially like that, but I did learn about the 2289 which fit the bill nicely. The 2289 Backpacker hasn’t been available in the US for awhile (was it ever sold here?), but it lived on in Canada. It’s a beautiful airgun, switching between carbine and pistol without tools – brilliant.
The aspect that’s not so great is the air bleed added to it to make sure that it couldn’t achieve 500fps in Canada. I’m not sure how they do their testing in Canada, but with lead pellets – it is seriously anemic, not even reaching 400 fps with Crosman Premier round-nose pellets. They must test with plastic or something to get speeds even remotely close to 500. I contacted Crosman, and after about a month delay, they did get back to me (I was giving up hope). They told me I could replace the air bleed part used in the CA models for a non bleed part used in US and other models. They did not however, tell me what part that is, provide a part number or offer any other information.
Here’s my request for help. Do any of you out there know the part number(s) of the items I need to take the 2289 apart and bring it up to it’s full non-bled power? It should be able to come pretty close to what the 1322 can do. I’m not sure what separates the 13xx vs 22xx platforms though. A part number (or number(s)) would be great, any additional instructions would be helpful as well. Your help is greatly appreciated. Any help is greatly appreciated actually. Thanks all!
Bristolview,
The best place to check out Crosman part numbers like this is on the Crosman Forum. These guys may even be able to tell you where you can get the parts in Canada.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/
B.B.
You might want to take a look a the Canadian Airgun Forum and search the site for it. I’m really sorry I can’t post you link right now I’m at work.
The valves are easily available here. Can you tell who (or where) your wife bought it from? If I’m not wrong only a handfull of people still had 2289’s in inventory (they’re now discontinued) and most of them have the parts you need to bring it to US (if not better) specs.
J-F
Well, whatever happens, you’ve got a spectacular wife. I’m reminded of the American Olympic shooter who I believe managed to shoot the wrong bull and miss the gold medal in TWO previous Olympics. Well with his nice wife from the Czech shooting team (who first approached him to commiserate for his original screw-up), I wouldn’t care less if I were him.
Matt61
Howdy Mr. B.B., Ms. Edith & the Gang,
If you served or had a loved one who did, THANK YOU!
Beaz
I really need to take a chainsaw to my father’s basement so I can clear out narrow 40ft range (to allow for shooting bench and target stand for a 10m effective distance)…
Then see what my Condor does with the tank (might need to order a new box of pellets too, given the run level you achieved).
B.B.
Well, it’s time to keep my word. Enjoy the pic.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2yo9y13.jpg and http://i48.tinypic.com/i581g0.jpg (not much to _enjoy_, light’s messy, didn’t have time to set things right 🙂 ).
Right music for this event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx5mvxMSD1E
Special alloys, lots of CNC and heat treatment, some laser and a bit of plasma, 500 bucks total.
I guess some explanations would be nice. Let’s start with the biggest brownish part (it is actually dark bitter chocolate in color due to heat and chem treatment) which is the cocking lever. Below and to the right side are its hook and hook spring base. 3 parts above and to the right will become a piston interceptor – frame, block and housing. U-like part to the bottom left is a cocking link (must be black as night 🙂 ) 4 silvery complex parts are the trigger, they look sharp, they are sharp (finger tested) and hardened up to 60 HRC. 2 big dull silver parts above are bypass control/loading lever blanks. They will become brighter and much less bulky. I guess axles and pins need no comments.
That comprises the whole “lower hold” and some pieces of upper part as well. I also had some pieces for upper part about 2 weeks ago, but guess it not so worthy to see – axles, pins, small lug. I promise to show them together with upper receiver.
duskwight
duskwight,
Wow! It’s finally coming together. I saw the other parts a few weeks back and this looks like the bigger, nastier parts (to make).
What I can’t wait for is a year after you have assembled and tested your rifle, for all the armchair experts to tell you what you should have done, or how easy it is to make an airgun like yours — just cut away everything that doesn’t look like an airgun and harden what’s left!
Today must be one happy day in Casa Duskwight!
In your honor I am going to show the insides of a special handmade air rifle later this week.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks, but there still is one big and ugly part to finish – the upper receiver. I guess it’s the biggest and the nastiest part of them all, but it’s being made.
Well, as for armchair experts here we got a beautiful and very traditional set of pics – a product under discussion, a 1m piece of rail and a set of needle files, bottomed with “C’mon, it’s easy” 🙂
I hope in a few days I’ll be able to demonstrate all this assembled together. And I would very much like to see that special airgun.
duskwight
Duskwright,
those parts look VERY impressive. It seems to me that pretty much anything that could go wrong has – Murphy’s Law at it’s best. From dimensions that one machine shop couldn’t match, to lost parts, to improper metal treatment techniques to a shipping company in bankruptcy! Keep going, we’re all cheering for you.
Now as for music, try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUmAxSlBhPs
Fred DPRoNJ
Wow, impressive. I’m encouraged to begin my trigger job on my Mosin-Nagant. Your industrial music sounds a bit foreboding.
Matt61
Matt
Foreboding? Why?
Then you must listen to that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EeaU44H7K8 sounds like milling machine at its full and very optimistic 🙂
duskwight
duskwight,
Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! By the way did I say awesome! I listened to the music while I read your comment. It added a special dimension to your presentation.
-Chuck
God bless all veterans for their service. “It is for us the living, rather, to be here dedicated to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.”
B.B., glad you and Edith liked Battleship. I thought it was very clever the way they brought in the whole Pearl Harbor angle starting with that villainous kick to the face by the Japanese soccer player which reprises the original sneak attack. And then the Japanese guy helps save the day! Well, I’m all for reconciliation. Cleverness, notwithstanding, I thought the way they included the old battleship game made it seem much more exciting than it was to play. I never did very well, and I was so bored at the end that I usually didn’t care. Did you notice how rounds from the M4 and the 9mm sidearm pinged uselessly off the body armor of the aliens? I did have my doubts about how 16 inch guns would fare against a ship that can fly through space, go underwater, and fly through the atmosphere as well. On the other hand, when the guns are that close….
Matt61
16 inch Battleship main guns. Shells as heavy as a Volkswagen Beetle fired with black powder. Just cause it’s old technology doesn’t mean it won’t work!
Mike