by B.B. Pelletier
This is the new Rogue. It came Crosman, so a bipod was included. I’ll show it to you when I shoot the rifle.
It’s been two years since the release of the Benjamin Rogue .357-caliber ePCP big bore rifle. Back then, the rifle was so revolutionary that, when I reviewed it for you, I had to spend a lot of time explaining its operation.
I’m going to review that operation for you, again, because there have been a few significant changes…plus some that won’t be visible to the user but which should make the operation even better. I won’t dive into the guts of the gun like I did in the last report, because things there haven’t changed enough to be noticeable; but when it comes to something that affects the gun’s performance, I’ll address it.
What is the Rogue?
The Benjamin Rogue is a big bore precharged air rifle that can be fired either single-shot or with a 6-shot rotating magazine. The 6-shot magazine is unusual because most big bores do not have sufficient air capacity to fire 6 shots without refilling the gun. Those that do will often taper off too much, with lower velocities after their initial 2-3 shots.
The Rogue is unique because it has a computer-controlled valve that opens and closes by electronic command. That’s what the lowercase “e” in ePCP stands for. A pressure sensor inside the air reservoir reads the pressure at all times. The computer contains software that tells the air valve how long it needs to stay open to maintain velocity at the settings the user has programmed into the gun. This is something that airgunners have long talked about; but one of them, namely Lloyd Sykes, wrote the programs and built the hardware that actually allowed it to work for the first time. He then demonstrated his idea to Crosman who bought it and developed both the hardware and the software into the Rogue that we see today.
The Rogue has a shrouded barrel that reduces the report significantly. It doesn’t turn it into a suburban backyard air rifle, but you don’t want that in a rifle this powerful anyway. The hunter in the field will thank the designers for a powerful gun that’s easier on their eardrums.
The gun is .357 caliber, and that requires some explanation. There are a number of air rifles on the market that are 9mm, and .357 is very close to 9mm. However, and this is very significant, 9mm is a European pistol caliber that uses bullets ranging from 90 grains to 125 grains in weight. That’s perfect for pocket pistols, but not for a hunting handgun unless the quarry is smaller game like rabbits and raccoons. Coyotes would be at the top of this list, and your marksmanship would have to be precise. Most significantly, 9mm bullets are either 0.355 or 0.356 inches in diameter.
On the other hand .357-caliber bullets have been developed for both the .38 Special and the powerful .357 Magnum handguns and have been used for medium-sized game like whitetail deer. The bullets for .357 guns do go as light as 90 grains, but they more commonly start out at around 110 grains and go all the way up to 200 grains. This weight is important for a big bore airgun that’s not going to drive these bullets as fast as a firearm handgun. We want weight because it equals penetration, which — to a big bore airgunner — gets the job done.
These bullets have a diameter of 0.357 to 0.359 inches. While that doesn’t sound like too much larger than 0.355 to 0.356 inches, the difference allows the soft lead bullet to fill the bore, take the rifling well and seal all the high-pressure air behind it. People who shoot black powder arms understand this very well, and all big bore airgunners need to take it to heart.
Load lead!
The other important reason to focus on .357 over 9mm is because the majority of 9mm bullets are jacketed, and big bore airguns do not shoot jacketed slugs. There are just a pitiful few lead bullets available in 9mm, while there are hundreds of different styles and weights in .357. And you don’t have to cast your own bullets, either. There are numerous bullet makers making all sorts of lead bullets to order these days. You can get everything from hard-cast bullets, which I don’t recommend, to dead-soft lead-tin alloys that are perfect in big bores, to cowboy action bullets that don’t hurt your budget too much. You can buy these bullets either sized and lubricated or as-cast, which is unsized and unlubricated. I recommend the latter for a big bore airgun.
Big bore airguns do not shoot jacketed slugs
A bullet that’s been cast but not sized is not perfectly concentric. Sizing fixes this. But so does passing through a barrel that’s either the same size as the bullet or a thousandth smaller. Your barrel sizes the bullets as they’re fired, so sizing is not necessary. And because there’s no heat of combustion, the bullets don’t need to be lubricated with grease, either. The natural lubricity of soft lead is sufficient to allow the bullet to go through the bore without undue leading (lead loss by scraping off on the inside of the bore).
Nosler bullet
Crosman teamed with Nosler to create the perfect bullet for the Rogue. This is a 145-grain round-nosed bullet with a Ballistic Tip called the eXTREME Air Rifle Bullet. They come packed 25 to a box and are definitely premium ammunition. Yes, they’re costly, but if you take advantage of Pyramyd Air’s “Get the 4th tin free” offer, 100 bullets will cost about $60, plus shipping. That’s 60 cents apiece, which isn’t too bad for hunting ammunition. I would plink with something cheaper and save these for serious work, as I discovered in my first test that this bullet outshot all the others.
The Nosler eXTREME bullets with Ballistic Tips are made especially for the Rogue.
The magazine
One of the issues with the Rogue when it first came out was it didn’t like to feed many different bullets from the magazine. I didn’t catch this in my testing, because I never used the magazine. I tend to shoot any big bore as a single-shot because that’s what most of them are and also because I’m invariably testing something when I’m shooting, and a magazine just gets in the way.
I did test the original mag with the 145-grain Nosler bullets that were made especially for it, and of course it worked fine; but when shooters tried feeding 158-grain Keith-type bullets through it, they ran into problems. The magazine has been extensively redesigned to be more flexible in this respect, and that will be an important part of this test.
The holes for each bullet are more oval than round, allowing the bullets to move around more as they are being moved into the breech by the bolt.
The new magazine has an oval hole for the bullets, which is apparently necessary for improved feeding with various bullet shapes. I’ll put it to the test.
The electronic programs
I had a long discussion with Ed Schultz of Crosman prior to writing this report. I wanted to know what was different about the Rogue, and why was I testing it, again, after only two years. He told me about the magazine and also about the programming options. That’s what I want to discuss now, so I don’t have to explain it again when I test the rifle.
Programming the Rogue is simplicity, itself. This three-button keypad does everything. And the status screen tells you things…like when it’s time for more air.
The original Rogue allowed the shooter to select one of three bullet-weight ranges (light, medium and heavy), which corresponded to a given range of actual bullet weights. The shooter also programmed the rifle for one of three power ranges — low, medium and high. The two options, each with three choices, allowed a matrix of nine possible programming possibilities. When I tested the rifle for Shotgun News, I said that I didn’t think a lot of shooters would use the light bullet/low power option for anything beyond plinking to conserve air.
Crosman watched the forums discuss these settings and listened to feedback from their customers, and they finally came to the conclusion that the initial choices were too many — to the point of confusion. Also, it’s technically very difficult to control high pressure air when it’s compressed to its limit and then to try to meter it to only allow a very small amount to escape with each shot — such as the light bullet/low power selection. In plain terms, while the electronic controls did work, there were conditions in which they didn’t work at the optimum.
In the time since the first Rogues were sold, Crosman has been refining the software and even some of the hardware to get a smoother power curve from the gun. Their goal was more shots at the same velocity, but perhaps giving up a few shots on the lower end to get there. This new Rogue has the new software that allows just two bullet ranges — MEDIUM, which goes up to the 145-grain weight of the Nosler bullet made for the gun, and HEAVY, which starts at 145 grains and goes up.
There are also just two power settings — MEDIUM and HIGH. Combining the bullet weight settings and the power settings, the user now has just four selections to make instead of nine. But tinkerers don’t have to despair. They have wisely retained both the DISCHARGE setting, which allows the gun to dump a huge amount of air with one shot, as well as the full manual control over the computer that allows you to control the discharge time to within 5 microseconds. If you absolutely need all the air the gun can give, put it on DISCHARGE and the valve will remain open twice as long as for the highest power setting.
Can an existing gun be upgraded?
If you already own a Rogue and want these new features, your gun can use the new magazine, so the feeding situation should get better. But the new electronics are unfortunately linked to new hardware and no upgrade is offered. However, you can operate your older Rogue like the new one by using the upper two bullet weights and power levels, only. You’ll get much of what the new gun offers, but not the same level of stability, which I’ll explore for you at the range.
Not only will I shoot for accuracy and test the feeding of the new magazine, I’ll also be looking at the kind of strings we get from this rifle. I’ll test accuracy with both the Noslers as well as several lead bullets of different shapes.
The first thing I’m going to do is read all four of my previous reports to refresh myself on how the gun operates. Then, I’ll be ready to put it through the wringer for you.
Hi BB,
If I ever buy a Rogue, I think I will try to find a first gen. gun. I think the way I would use it is with round ball on low setting as a big plinker. As hard as Crosman has tried, I don’t think the Rogue will ever be the hunter that a Quackenbush or Haley will be. But, as a fun plinker that throws big lead, I think the Rogue it the top of the batch. It gives more shots and is much quieter than the others.
David Enoch
B.B.
To me this is the future in the raw. We use all sorts of tremendously accurate, compressible fluid devices these days that use computerized actuators. Throwing lead cannot be an exception. Once they work out all possible bugs and make the rifle look nicer, this has to become a top seller. Price? it will go down eventually as more are produced.
On another note, shot my .177cal TX200 last night. It was too easy to cock and recoil was completely gone. Checked velocity and it was about 640 fps, from its usual 900 fps. So, I guess I have a broken spring. I never thought a broken spring would feel so smooth when shooting. Any other possibility as to something that broke?
Interesting bits of information… The rifle seem to still be very accurate. The POI went up by half inch (effect of recoil on slower moving pellet?). The rifle has its original spring and has been shot not more than 3,000 times.
I have a Macarri spring I bought in case this happened. I will install this weekend. I have totally disassembled the gun before (following your previous blogs) so I do not have problem there, but are there any special suggestions or unwritten knowledge for replacing the spring?
Greetings
T.E.
TE,
Yes, when springs break the guns do get smoother. The good thing about a TX200 is that you can take it apart without a mainspring compressor, so spring replacement shouldn’t be too difficult for you.
And yes, slower pellets/bullets almost always do move up because of recoil.
B.B.
Unless, of course, there’s a new valve or anything mechanical involved. I’m not sure if you were suggesting that or not.
The user-programmability issue is still an issue.
derekb,
Yes, the gun does have a port. The firmware can be changed. But if the parts that are deep in the guts aren’t also changed, the new software can’t do its thing.
B.B.
I’m curious what exactly changed, I don’t suppose a schematic will ever see the light of day.
Are there plans to release software for customizing the menu? For example, a shooter could reconfigure the menu so that it presented him with two options, his preferred velocity for two different bullet weights, for example, and ditching any other options for the sake of simplicity.
derekb,
I asked for that at the beginning of the development. A user needs the ability to save a favorite program or two.
B.B.
At the least, I’d think they could come up with an interpolation algorithm — especially if it is now a case of two weights and two velocities…
The end-points would be the defined settings, but document the expected weights and velocities (though velocities will likely be dependent upon hardness of the lead and projectile shape [bearing surface]). Then let the use enter their projectile weight, and desired velocity behavior — let the gun interpolate the firing cycle that conforms to that combination.
B.B.,
How can we distinguish between the Generation I Rogue and the Generation II Rogue? Externally they look identical. Is there a serial no. that can be relied upon for this transition?
kevin
Kevin,
I’ll look into it.
B.B.
Is there any possibility of Crosman adapting this technology to a world-class 10-meter rifle? Perhaps I’m being chauvinistic, but I would really like to see a “made in America” gun on the Olympic podium some time in the future. A price point near the Rogue would also be a definite bonus.
Jim
Jim,
Crosman has discussed this. But this valve doesn’t automatically make the gun more accurate. There are still the ergonomics and barrels to contend with and right now, the Germans dominate.
B.B.
B.B.
Crosman can make an accurate rifle, the Challenger 2009 for instance. I was thinking Lothar Walther barrel, an original stock (possibly carbon fiber or other composite), and the electronic valve in place of complicated and finicky regulator apparatus. A good trigger would have to be included, of course.
Pipe dream, perhaps, but a nice thought.
Jim
Jim and BB,
Crosman is having great success in the 10 M sporter class with the 2009 Challenger, I’m seeing more and more of them showing up at matches. Perhaps the place Crosman could use the Rouge technology is by making a small bore (22 cal.) sporter class rifle to start with then possibly a entry level precision class rig. This could change the indoor 50 foot game; one of the problems a lot of clubs have trouble dealing with is an exhaust system that vents powder smoke and a heating system to keep the range from getting uncomfortably cold (at least for us northern folks).
This got me thinking….
There is nothing in the small bore rules that say you CAN NOT use 22 Cal. AIR rifle? I will have to go back and read the reports on the Marauder and see if I can convince my wife that it is something we have to have!
Caveman,
Yes, the rules do specify .177 because all scoring equipment is based upon it.
Sorry,
B.B.
BB,
I was thinking 50 foot indoor small bore (rimfire), not 10 M air.
caveman,
Yes, you did say that. Sorry.
B.B.
I totally agree with TunnelEngineer and DerekB.
I think we’ll see more of this great ePCP thing in the future and I hope you’ll be able to hook it to a laptop or even a smart phone to tune it yourself right at the range (or at home if they finally make it available in smaller calibers) like people do with cars. There’s no reason why you couldn’t use a program like chairgun to make the rifle do exactly what you want it to do.
Load a low velocity/high shot count tune and plink in your backyard all day at a neighbor friendly noise level.
Load a hot, super high velocity/lower shot count to use with heavier pellets at longer ranges or for hunting.
To me this is the ultimate regulated rifle and I hope I’m not mistaken and it DOES get better and they can use the eletronic valve system to it’s full potential. Thanks again Lloyd!
J-F
J-F,
That kind of control does exist and I think they should apply it that way, too. Daystate has done well with their very similar system, and this one has even more control, so applying it to a smallbore rifle seems like an ideal thing.
B.B.
Add a motorized tilt adjust scope mount to the programming can also set the scope zero for the new configuration!
(what is this, basic math? My first comment of the day was []+1=2, and this comment is []+2=3)
I was just thinking that this has to be frustrating for Lloyd, the inventor of the e-valve technology. Even though his technology is being used there seems to be a lot of fumbling around as to what to do with it. Like others have said, I agree that this technology has a place in the future. I just hope Lloyd is still around and gets credit when the technology is used on really great guns.
David Enoch
I realize this is a big bore gun, and that people will buy it as such, but (forget everything I just said 😉 ) is there any chance of Crosman offering interchangeable barrels for plinking/ target/other? That would definitely be a nice feature on the Rogue!
/Dave,
Interchangable barrels was also one of the first development ideas. They are still considering it, though maybe not for this platform, since it is a repeater and tougher to adapt.
B.B.
Of course there would be a lot to implementing changeable barrels, but doable. Port, bolt, mag, barrel and a new program to choose from the menu. Am I forgetting anything? Of all that, I think the programming would be the most involved. Change a parameter, test, change, test, repeat ad nauseum. The rest would be fairly simple. Retain 6 shot mag, just smaller holes. Different bolt with smaller probe profile, different barrel of course. Smaller port. I guess those would have to be interchangeable.
I guess it would be easier to make an Air Force gun shoot .357’s, but then we don’t have the electronic valve.
/Dave
I wish they would redesign the magazine for the .22 Marauder. So it can hold PolyMags without a need for grinding.
First, thanks for all you and Edith do!
I want to ask you to test something off the beaten trail that I have been considering ever since I ran across it while exploring FWB’s offerings on the Pyramyd AIR site: The remarkably light 7lb. FWB 500 youth match rifle with the beech stock. I think this could be a real sleeper. It is not cheap, but it is considerably less than the other FWB models. It’s closest sibling is the 700 Basic at 8.6lbs. I own two 300S Minis that are my favorites, at 9lbs. each plus whatever scope I have on them, but the prospect of similar Feinwerkbau recoilless accuracy with a little more weight than an R7 is a great idea, though not cheap. With my aging eyes. I scope my match rifles for moderately longer range shooting at which they excel. I was hooked on using match rifles for 20-50yd. shooting by reading VarminAir’s blogs.
Uh . . . , that was VarmintAir’s blogs.
Lance,
When I attended the NRA National Championships there was a lot of talk about the FWB 500. Apparently shooters like the price but still want the ergonomics of the 700.
I wonder what a sporterized 500 would do?
B.B.
Nice to see an update on the Rogue. Hard as it is to get a gun in production, it’s harder to keep it there. They say that most small businesses fail, and I imagine that’s true with products. So, it’s nice to see that the Rogue has found its niche.
Victor, Bob Werner, the former Charlie DaTuna, claims that a tune is all about the correct amount of lubrication and perhaps some parts fitting. He refused to be pinned down about whether it would improve accuracy. My own experience is that a tune can do amazing things. A day came when my IZH 61 could not hold five shots in five inches at five yards. Mike Melick said that it just needed some lubrication, and it came back shooting better than ever. My B30 had parts dropping off of it continuously until I sent it to Rich Imhoff, and ever since I’ve had no problem and it has shot like a champ.
By the way, did I miss the shoot-off between the TX200 and the MAV77? I have a horse in that race which is BAM quality.
Matt61
Matt,
I will address accuracy and tunes when I do the blog for Victor. I can see there is more interest than just his for this subject.
B.B.
BB,
I feel for Lloyd. I bet he delivered a stable, working prototype and they hacked it up to bits to justify in-house engineering and marketing salaries; they’ll say things like “improving the interface” or “reducing cost”, but it is mostly gold-bricking and existential self-justification. It is a weakest link scenario common in semiconductors, where I saw a case or two of it, but a corporate cancer of mediocre engineering and fickle marketing affects all segments. From the inside it is like herding cats — from the outside it must have been like watching his child savaged by wolves. I didn’t really feel like the world was clamoring for a big bore repeater anyway, but the technology has some very exciting possibilities on small-bore PCP’s to stand in for short range C/F BR, or at least that was my take on it.
BB/Volvo/Kevin,
Did I justify my power level preferences adequately? Thanks for all the feedback. I’m also thinking that as for breakbarrels, if the Blackhawk is any indication, I may be perfectly happy ultimately spending no more than for a nice D34 with a somewhat tamer tune than stock. How far back in the D34 line do I need to get metal sights and do I lose the slender forearm in the current stock design at some point in time? Any “special editions” that might suit? I get the impression that it is not a favorite model with connoisseurs, but my preferences and usage are different from most, and with a good barrel (which even the humble Blackhawk seems to have) it might fill the bill.
BG_Farmer,
The all-metal sights dropped away back in the early part of this decade. And when you get back to the wooden stock, it does fatten up.
B.B.
BB,
Thanks — I was afraid of that. Incidentally, I looked back at your 2007 review of the Diana 34 Panther, and the stock is a dead ringer for the Blackhawk (the new 34P stock has been “upgraded” a little; regressed in my opinion) and your reaction was similar to mine to the Blackhawk stock. It actually seems like you were shooting the same rifle much of the time. The current 34 wood stock looks like the “old” synthetic one — wonder if it would fit an older action…
B.B., I haven’t had much time lately, and I am still having some difficulties but there is hope. I haven’t had a lot to offer, but I want to tell you you still own the “go to” place for airgun information. I may never own one of these big bore airguns but I do like learning about them. I will be reading this series with relish.
Ken
Ken,
Glad to hear from you! I want you to know you are in my prayers daily.
I hope you feel better soon.
B.B.
Just a thought…could the lack of USB connectivity have to do with possible lawsuits.
This isn’t upgrading a computer…it is a fairly powerful gun. As has been mentioned, though on the one hand it would be cool to be able to make your own custom firmware…what happens if someone customizes it in a way that makes the gun unsafe?
I’m thinking that Crosman has considered this possibility and decided that the resulting lawsuit isn’t worth it.
How can it be more extreme than the “discharge” option that dumps all of the air at once?
If it damages the internals it’s the owner fault just as it’s your fault if you re-flash your car computer and it blows the engine.
J-F
J-F,
DISCHARGE doesn’t dump all the air at once. It holds the vale open for twice as long as the longest programmed time. There is still air in the reservoir after firing a DISCHARGE shot.
B.B.
My bad, I didn’t read that carefully. So what would happen if the valve stayed open? Could there be too much air coming out? Is there such a thing as “too much air” coming out?
I suddenly feel the urge to try something like that.
J-F
I’d suspect the projectile will have left the barrel much before the reservoir dumps too much — but once it has left the barrel you have the equivalent of an open bleed valve on a high-pressure pump — a pump with the longest high pressure hose around (well, it needs to contain a volume equivalent to the gun reservoir)… I’d expect the sudden drop in air pressure /in/ the reservoir would lead to condensation and moisture build-up.
J-F,
All that would happen is a huge rocket-push from the gun. I’ve had it happen in other PCPs.
B.B.
I plan on going back to the range tomorrow, weather permitting. My plan is to shoot targets at 100 yards.
We put some new “blackjack” backers up yesterday, so I should be able to tell how my shots are hitting until I get on target.
The guns I will use are my RS2 in .22, and my Storm XT and Winchester 1028 in .177. Those are the only three airguns I own that have a chance of shooting that far with any accuracy.
Ammunition for the RS2 will be Crosman Premier hollowpoints 14.3gr. That is the only .22 pellets I have.
For the others, I have a choice: Crosman Hunting pointed pellets at 7.4 gr.; Cabelas Hunting hollowpoints at 7.9gr.; and Cabelas Ultra Magnum domed pellets at 10.5gr. I am not going to try wadcutters at that distance.
What do you think will work best? Should the lightweight 7.4gr. pellets shoot better at long distance because of their lightness, or should the 10.5gr. pellets be better because of their greater mass?
Les
Les, I could be wrong, but your Ultra Magnums may be best. It is my understanding (perhaps wrongly) that heavier pellets are more stable in flight. At that long distance they should be less susceptible to cross winds as well. That is a complete guess, but it is my gut feeling. Love to know the results!
Thanks. I think you may be right, if they have the momentum needed to get there.
I’ll post the results soon after shooting.
Les
SEMNAGr is probably right, but the hunting “pointed” field pellets have a really high BC and work well at longer distances despite lighter weight, so might be worth a try. The big problem with them is that they aren’t really consistent in terms of size and weight. I usually do OK for plinking with them by just rejecting the obvious peewee’s, but I wish Crosman would make some with tigher QC.
Have you had the opportunity to shot a Beeman R \ HW rifle yet?
Only R7 really; it seemed nice :). You raise a good point, though. I should talk to some of the guys in the airgun division at my club; maybe I’d get a chance to try the R9 and/or one of the underlevers sometime, surely somebody has at least one of them. I don’t go over there because I don’t really need an airgun range and don’t shoot FT, but I’ve meant to go check it out for a while just to be friendly, anyway.
BG_Farmer,
Excellent point/post! I was wondering when a pellet that shots less accurate than some other(s) at a closer range, say 10 to 20 meters, might shoot better than those other(s) at a longer range? You’ve just answered my question by pointing out that pointed pellets have a higher ballistic coefficient. I can’t wait to test that (whenever I’m able to shoot again, that is)! THANKS!
Victor
Can’t figure out why I would need a .357 cal air rifle, but if that big boy was a shotgun I might be able to rationalize it.
Tonight I took another try at fixing my old 880. If you recall, I’m having trouble keeping the receiver from spreading when pumping it up.
When I disassembled the receiver, I noticed the place where I was going to put the other through bolt did not need to go through the internal mechanism. There was an internal lug molded into the right half, that received only a shallow self-tapping screw.
I replaced this screw with a machine screw that matched the width of the receiver. I drilled out the screw hole on the left side (upper right corner) and drilled the lug out to the same diameter bore. I didn’t want the new bolt to extend all the way outside the receiver on the right side. So I put a cupped brass washer beneath the head of the screw. This not only slightly shorted the length of the bolt, but helped spread the clamping force on the left half of the resin receiver.
Since, like Tom, my kitchen table doubles as my gun shop (my basement workbench is far too small), I was ready for my grueling kitchen QC test. I pumped the gun up to its full ten pumps, and dry fired it at my empty kitchen sink. While the stock remained a little loose, the receiver halves didn’t spread.
I did this ten times, and it stayed together visibly. I installed the scope and pumped it another eight times, and dry fired it again. Still stayed together.
I was somewhat emboldened by the fact that this wasn’t my first rodeo fixing 880’s, but especially by the fact that I still had another one. The next time I take it to the range will tell if I need to send that new bolt all the way through and secure it with a nut.
Les
BB: PCPs are super accurate,they only have one big set back: they are not simple machines. Any number of things can make them malfunction,my experience with the Marauder for example was that it started leaking air because the scuba tank I used let out some dust which got into the valve, and I had to have it repaired. Now I’m going to have to get a new scuba tank just in case,for I don’t trust the old one which by the way functions perfectly for diving. Another gripe I have is with the Discovery,even though it super accurate it will not hold up to any type of impact,even a slight slip which causes it to hit any other object,say just a small thump out in the field and bingo it starts to leak,pity it such a fun gun. I have been shunning away from PCPs because of these problems,which doesn’t mean I’m really getting hooked to Springers which are much more reliable,and easy to maintain-hard to shoot but that’s the challenge. My RWS 350 & 460 are in my humble opinion very good and user friendly guns.
I want to use a hand pump but am a bit worried about moisture. Is there an air dryer that I can connect in line with the hand pump, like is common on air tools. Also will the fittings allow for a backup tank to be filled by hand pump.
Myriad,
The Hill pump has the provision for an inline dessicant moisture filter. But no hand pump can really fill a backup tank, unless it is a smaller one, like the AirForce tanks.
B.B.
I am the lucky owner of a “gifted” Rogue. I wrote an article for an instate mag. on the history of big bore air guns and let my son in law review it. After many questions he ordered one for my Christmas gift. He also bought the pump and turned a talkative old guy speechless. I have shot it sparingly over the past year but that should change when my carbon fiber tank arrives in the next week or so. I have a hog hunt set up and look forward to dialing it in soon. I am aware of its limitations but after hunting with all sorts of bows for close to 40 years it’s pretty much a non issue.
Is is possible for the Rogue software to control Rogue hardware to produce a specified muzzle velocity? Alternatively, can Rogue estimate muzzle velocity?
Correction: Is it…?
I ask for a velocity to dial into my little calculator (ChairGun) then clicks on my scope. Maybe I have missed something, but knowing velocity helps a lot for accuracy. Since the Rogue has computing power, why not use it?
And since this is a wish list, why not build all the capability of ChairGun into the Rogue’s computer, so that I can get aiming and hold over info directly from the Rogue display?
I’m glad to not be the only wacko who wants the Rogue to be able to do that kind of thing!
Including chairgun with the Rogue would be complicated and not everyone would need or want it BUT being able to hook the Rogue to your smart phone or laptop and using a ballistics program like chairgun to give it more or less air for the shot and helping you achieve it sounds doable to me and should have been included from the start.
Imagine how cool it would be!!! You put in your info and chairgun tells you how much correction you need and adjusts the air comming out of the valve to do a part of those adjustments.
J-F
Bill,
The software does control velocity, but nowhere like what you envision. No gun on earth can do that yet.
It was recommended that Crosman build a chronograph into the Rogue when the project began. Since they have the computational power onboard, as you observe, why not use more of it?
B.B.
Isabell, with tongue planted firmly in my cheek I say, “Friends don’t let friends use I.E.”
Seriously, in addition to Safari, I find Firefox, SeaMonkey and Opera to work well on this site.
It’s nice to have options. Still, I know there are those who only know about I.E. because it was installed when they got the computer. ~Ken
“friends don’t friends use I.E.” LOL love it!
I have another good one:
Internet Explorer is only good for one thing… downloading another browser 😉
J-F
Touche, J-F, touche!! LOL. ~Ken
B.B.
I bought a .357 Rouge at the Houston NRA convention. When I got it I sighted it in and it worked great. I just tried to shoot it today ( seven months later ) and I have all kinds of problems. First the batteries were dead, changed them, no tank pressure reading on the led. Second it won’t fire after pumping it up.
I changed the pressure settings and the projectile weight setting several times and it finally shot all the pressure in the tube. Do you think this is a problem with the computer chip or what.
MGySgt Neal
Keith,
It definitely sounds like the problem is in the computer. If you used the correct lithium batteries, I don’t like that it was dead after only seven months. Those things last for years. I would contact Crosman and tell them what you have told me.
They should stand behind it.
B.B.
I have sent mine back for leak and broken bolt and it came back with a leak when it is cold it will not fire the first or second time just a pop sound not enough to send the projectile down the barrel also if you rack another slug in it jams it up and you have to ramrod it out. I don’t find it reliable.
Hi, Newbie here, bought one off Craigslist (a month ago, kid (teenager) had played with it and had 3 rounds chambered.) for my Christmas present, needed to supplement my new dishwasher Xmas present. I also had to add a scope. Shot it with the Daughters boyfriend 2 weeks ago and we were all over the board. We stopped when we had a round jam loading, could not remove the clip. Literally, I was suffering buyers remorse. So went to a rifle range yesterday. Started at the 25 yard pistol range with .357 Round Ball (most accurate from Internet browsing) . Second shot was in the 10 ring. Went to the 50 yard range and “shot the center out”. Gen 2 gun, and was having to top off the tank after 6 shots on Medium pressure with light bullet selected.
So I want to try bullets next to shoot at the 100 yard range. My questions are but not limited too:
1. What is the twist rate on this barrel?
2. How hard is too hard. I was talking with a gentleman that cast his own bullets and was concerned that they were or would be too hard. How do you measure that on a lead casting? Fingernail?
3. Is it safe to shoot .358 Bullets? Gentleman was shooting sized .358
4. Where can I find a single shot loading tray to purchase or copy? Rifle did not come with one.
I contacted Nosler and they are no longer manufacturing bullets for this gun. I got a box of .128 grain with it. Perhaps I can get them molded (question 2)? Also the gun came with some hollow points.
P.S. Thank you for still answering questions about this albatross. If you hear of a broken one for sale please let me know. Love to see what PIC they used.
Michael,
I don’t know the twist rate, but it is slow, so use short, light bullets. The Nosler bullets do work well, though. Too bad they are no longer available.
Never use hardened lead bullets in a big bore airgun! Pure lead is best, but they don’t cats well, so I use 40:1 lead to tin. Never use antimony, as that only leaves lead in the bore. That also holds true for firearms. Hard lead bullets are only good for when you want super-high velocities that lead bullets don’t work well at, anyway. If you keep the velocity down under 1,400 f.p.s. soft lead works the best
Yes it is safe to use .358 bullets. In fact, they will probably be the most accurate. As long as they are soft, they shouldn’t lead the bore. They don’t have to be lubed and will be most accurate if you shoot them dry. Remember, as a rule of thumb, with soft lead you can always go 0.001″ over bore diameter and be safe. That works in both airguns and firearms.
B.B.
Thanks for your fast response. I will look for some pure lead bullets. Do you have a bullet manufacture in mind? I have just been purchasing them off the Internet.
Also did you have a lead on a single shot tray or suggestion where I could find one?
Thanks for your time and attention.
Michael,
Look at bullet makers who make bullets for Cowboy action shooting and for black powder shooters. They will be using soft lead.
I’m sorry but I don’t have a lead on a single shot tray. You may have to have one made for the gun, based on the magazine.
B.B.
Hi B.B. Not to flog a dead horse but I take it that Crossman is no longer supporting this gun, short of send it in and they will attempt to “fix it” (per Tom previous post) and send it back? I have looked for a spare magazine, on the Internet, to no avail nor can I find the single shot tray sold anywhere. I hand loaded my round balls at the range because I ran off and left the magazines at home.
Also should this gun be able to hold pressure over night? This one doesn’t.
Also aside from here is there a Rogue blog somewhere?
Again thanks for your time.
Michael,
Yes, Crosman should be able to repair your Rogue for you. Better hurry, though, because in a while they won’t have the institutional memory any longer.
The gun should hold air indefinitely — for years.
As for the parts, I would talk to the folks at Crosman, because they probably have some things still in inventory. If you wait, though, they won’t have them very long.
B.B.