by B.B. Pelletier
Announcement: Adil Maroof is this week’s winner of Pyramyd Air’s Big Shot of the Week on their airgun facebook page. He’ll receive a $50 Pyramyd AIR gift card. Congratulations!
Adil Maroof is this week’s BSOTW.
Today’s report isn’t about airguns, per se. It’s about circumstances and the things that surround the guns that often determine their value down the road. This subject is one I’ve been thinking about for more than 40 years, and I have had some pretty strong arguments with collectors, so let’s see what you think.
Commemoratives, anyone?
Back in the early 1970s, I had a chance to buy two Winchester commemorative rifles. They were both model 94 Centennial 66 commemoratives. I bought them to hopefully make a little money; but when I put them out at gun shows, I discovered they were not at all desirable. Too many of the same gun had been made, and they were very easy to acquire. Nobody wanted them. Collectors didn’t want them because they had no real collector value — and never would — because of how many were sold. And shooters didn’t want them because, if they ever fired a shot through them, they would lose all their (non-existent) value.
How they were sold was what caused the problem. These rifles were made in huge numbers and sold to virtually anyone who wanted one. There was no cachet — no “specialness” to the model that made them desirable. Because they were called commemoratives, the moment one was fired, it lost any value it might every get. The only way to make anything on one of these rifles was to buy it and never open the box. Then, in 40-50 years, it might bring a small premium, though it’s doubtful that even that would be enough to offset inflation of the same money held for the same period of time.
Are all commemoratives in the same boat? Not at all. Some were issued in very limited quantities, and that fact is known by everyone who collects. Those guns do command a premium. But you have to know which ones are valuable going in…or you have to be very lucky.
Let me contrast that high-volume commemorative with the Pederson device of World War I. Military planners wanted a way to turn the U.S. service rifle into a semiautomatic rifle that put out a high volume of fire in a short time. The thinking was that all the soldiers would emerge from the trenches with their rifles at their hips, firing bullets as fast as their fingers could work the triggers. The enemy would be overwhelmed with the high volume of incoming fire and keep their heads down, allowing our soldiers to gain ground on the battlefield.
Irwin Pederson invented a .30-caliber semiautomatic pistol insert for the Springfield rifle that allowed soldiers to convert the rifle to a semiautomatic in seconds. It fired .30-caliber pistol bullets that traveled at a very high speed, and it carried 40 rounds in a stick magazine. It was a wonderful idea except — (A) Nobody asked the soldiers what they thought, and — (B) It came too late in the war to be used. The government shrouded the project in secrecy; and at the end of the war, they ordered all Pederson devices destroyed. There are only a few still in existence. If you own one, you can pretty well name your price.
The lesson is that commemoratives that were made to be commemoratives may not be such a good idea, but accidents like the Pederson device are sure things.
Getting lucky
Sometimes, though, things run counter to the norm. I once bought a Daisy 1894 Texas Rangers commemorative BB gun in the original box for $80. The box was in poor condition, but all the original literature came with it and the gun inside seemed to be unfired. I certainly never cocked it! The lucky part of the story is that of all Daisy 1894 BB guns, this one is the most desirable. I sold the gun for $500 two months after buying it, and the man who bought it still got a good deal. But I could just as easily have bought a different Daisy 1894 commemorative that might not have made any money at all. In my case, it was a pure gamble; but if I’d checked in the Blue Book of Airguns before buying, it would have been a shrewd purchase.
Let me give you a case where the line is not so clear. The Daisy commemorative No. 25 pump gun was issued in 1986. It came in a nice box, and the gun was made intentionally to look like the earlier No. 25 pump guns — the ones made before 1930. Daisy made a bucketload of them; but because the No. 25 is regarded so highly, they have increased in value over time.
The Daisy Christmas Story Red Ryder is another example of a special commemorative gun that defied logic and is now extremely collectible. The BB gun that never existed (author Jean Shepard mistakenly wrote that the Daisy Red Ryder had a compass in the stock and a sundial), became the most famous Daisy never made. They’ve even reissued another one in 2003 to mark the 20th anniversary of the first one. All signs point to that gun being a good one, too.
Value-makers
When Al Biesen made rifles, they appreciated in value with each passing year. But that doesn’t always hold true. Al Biesen is renowned and had a 50-year history of making fine guns.
When Snuffy Smith, airgun maker extraordinaire and a legend in his own mind, makes a “special” model, it will probably not gain value as time passes. Why? Because nobody ever heard of him, outside his own world of 200 internet admirers. If you back up a few feet, you’ll see that every gun Snuffy makes is different because he’s still learning his craft as he goes. He’s not an Al Biesen, no matter what he thinks. Buying a gun from Snuffy is a financial risk.
Tried-and-true
There’s an old saying in the federal government: “Nobody ever got fired for recommending IBM.” The gist of the saying is that things that everyone knows and appreciates are always good, no matter what your personal tastes might be.
That said, an HW55 will always be a gun to invest in, and a 55 Tyrolean will be the absolute top in the category. Of course, condition means a lot, and I’ll address that in a moment, but you still must have the right model to begin with.
You and I may disagree on the styles we like, but we both have to acknowledge that HW55s and TX200s hold their value. HW55s are now gaining in value because they aren’t made anymore. If TX200s stop, there will be a rush on them, as well.
But a gun that is standard cannot be transformed into a collectible by a new finish and the hopes of a retailer. There are plenty of commemorative and special-issue airguns whose values have not increased, in spite of all the good things said about them. For example, just because a Beeman R1 is nickel-plated, people won’t necessarily assign a greater value to it.
Finish and condition
Condition is everything! When I started out collecting airguns, I thought that it was good enough to just get a certain model, if it was one that everyone wanted. If I got a Sheridan Supergrade, I was happy until a real collector pointed out that the sight wasn’t right and the gun had been refinished. By the time they were done picking apart my gun, I knew I had just an expensive shooter and nothing more. And a sow’s ear today will still be a sow’s ear 10 years from now.
While the right model of gun is important, the condition of the gun is equally important. I don’t want to be the guy who paid $3,000 for a first model wire stock Daisy, only to learn that it has been rebuilt and refinished. Then, my gun is just a placeholder in my collection until I replace it with one that hasn’t been fooled with.
Some people have a hard time understanding how collectors feel about condition, so for those guys I offer this little gem: I once owned the hatchet George Washington used to chop down the cherry tree, only the handle had been replaced three times and the head twice. Think about it.
Sometimes the bargains stare you down!
First example of this is a Shiloh Sharps rifle you bought for $3,200 and wait three years after ordering. Are you aware that you can buy an original Sharps rifle in very nice condition for about the same money? Odd as it sounds, original Sharps rifles often sell for less than the modern replicas. People aren’t aware that they can buy them, or they fear buying an original gun that’s old and has no company backing it up.
You’ll pay $250-300 for a Daisy No. 25 Centennial pump gun in the box. That gun was made in 1986. For the same $250-300, you can buy a beautiful original 1916-version No. 25 that’s the real deal. I see vintage guns like these at airguns shows all the time, but the buying public doesn’t come to these shows, so they miss them. Food for thought.
Bottom line
The bottom line for buying airguns is the same as it is for buying art. Buy what you like. If you like it, then who cares about the price? However, if you try to artificially build a collection of fine airguns just as an investment, you’re heading for trouble. Because your heart’s not in it, you’ll overlook things a true collector never would. You’ll jump at opportunities to buy guns that are not really bargains if all you’re doing is trying to make money. But if you really like airguns and buy only those that strike your fancy, you should be well protected by your internal compass.
Personally, I would rather have 10 airguns I really enjoy than 100 that are just investments. That way, when the economy slows down, like it has for the past several years, I can always shoot the guns I have and be happy with them. The saddest sight is a collection where everything is in a box and you have to put gloves on to examine it. Airguns are meant to be shot. That’s my opinion, anyway.
Heh… did anyone catch part two of the “Hotel Hell” premier? Where the hotel co-owner’s fabulous “don’t touch” antiques turned into junk — instead of $200,000-300,000 the auction house rep said they’d be lucky to pull $25,000 (and she wouldn’t accept them for the house she works in). The silver coffee/tea services were silver-plate, the huge painting was a late reproduction, etc. {But what can one expect from people who charge $350 a night for a room, with a two-night minimum, and a three-course meal for one runs $80}
In Other News (rhetorical musings):Michigan is another step closer to doing away with its ridiculous “permit to purchase”/”handgun registration” system. I wonder if that may open the gates to getting air pistols easily, since MI currently processes pellet pistols [<.177 BB with smoothbore is exempt, but nothing with rifled barrel]. In state, the argument is that the NICS phone call by the dealer will be sufficient for handguns, and probably for air pistols too — but what does this do for PA, which currently can't sell to MI except via a state licensed dealer who is to handle the paperwork… Would PA still require transfer via a state dealer who does the NICS call, or would PA do that and hence ship direct to customer…
MI has a few flaws in its laws that way… Silencers/shrouded barrels also run into ambiguity — since a ruling a few years ago that the BATF transfer fee for a silencer constitutes a "license" and MI law only permitted "licensed" silencers… But the Feds don't charge a transfer fee on things like Gamo's Whisper models, so those would apparently be considered "unlicensed" (illegal) silencers…
Wulfraed,
I’m going to guess that Pyramyd AIR is not going to start making NICS phone calls.
I dread having to deal with the Michigan State Police. I can call 5 people & get 5 completely different interpretations of one law. This is the reason I keep detailed notes about who I spoke with, the law we discussed and the date/time.
A woman who said she was the head of the division that regulates/interprets firearm laws told me several years ago that BATF regulates all .50-cal. guns INCLUDING airguns. Yet, Pyramyd AIR and others sell .50-cal. airguns all day long without consulting any federal agency. I tried reasoning with her, but she was positive she was right and that companies like Pyramyd AIR are violating federal law by selling these guns…esp. to convicted felons who are not allowed to own anything that’s .50 cal. (incl. airguns).
The easiest state I deal with is New Jersey. Everyone there is on the same page.
Cities with laws more restrictive than their state laws are also nightmares. I’m sometimes treated as though I’ve just called in a bomb threat when I cite the law for which I need clarification.
Edith
Yee-gads. Praise for my State. Edith, I believe there is a national law against this type of thing.
Fred DPRoNJ
In the “city” of Huntsville,Alabama (USA)…….Safely shooting a Red Ryder in your back yard is on legal par with shooting a .357 Magnum out your back door! Things are asinine all over.
I might add Huntsville is some 200 square miles in size…..not some cramped metropolis.
That’s odd that Michigan is so uptight. I thought that state had a lot of militias and would have few gun laws.
Matt61
MI is a mixed bag…
It has been a “shall issue” state for some years — and possessors of the CCW don’t need to obtain the “permit to purchase”*, but do have to fill out some other form (at the dealer I believe).
Long arms are just dealer paperwork. Pellet rifles are probably lax, given that you can find those for sale in stores that don’t handle firearms (but may handle ammo).
But the state puts pellet pistols into the same category as powder burning handguns.
Rifle ranges in the lower part of the state are rather rare — since one is limited to muzzle loaders and shotguns during deer season (rifle permitted above some E/W highway; that juncture is some 60-100 miles north of me). Even a .22 rifle for squirrels may not be permissible during deer season.
* The “Permit to Purchase” used to be a three-part form — no carbon, you had to write out each part — that had to be notarized and signed by local police department. It was then good for 10 days, anywhere in the state, for a single handgun. The dealer kept one part, and the other two were returned to the police department [one for them, one for the state police]. Then one had to fill out the so-called “Safety Inspection” [registration] — another three part form, with thumb print, one for your to carry, other two distributed as above.
A few years ago, they dropped the “safety inspection” and created a four-part form combining the features [no thumb print]; one for dealer, one for buyer, and two for local/state police. When I moved back from California I had to fill out EIGHT of these (the police department acted as “dealer”) — three for air pistols. I did not fill one out for my T/C Contender as I’d bought that one in MI around the time of my college graduation, so the state already had a registration for it.
G’day BB
I had never heard of the Pederson Device until you mentioned it. I Googled it and wow what a smart fellow!
Cheers Bob
Bob,
Yeah, Pederson was a clever guy. But of all the original M1 Carbine manufacturers selected to build the gun, Irwin Pederson was the only one that was never able to get a single rifle accepted. That was due to their manufacturing techniques that allowed too much tolerance to creep into the main parts. They had to be taken over and bailed out by an automotive manufacturer.
B.B.
I do believe that Pedersen’s rifle was considered comparable to the Garand in trials but there were certainly no rewards for second place there.
Matt61
BB: You have a typo above , it is John D. Pedersen who designed the Pedersen device you mention above. He also worked for Remington arms Company and designed such classics as the Remington models 25, 12 , and 51 pistol, among others.
Robert,
The Pederson of the Pederson device is the same guy who couldn’t make a carbine play. Irwin is just the company name.
B.B.
BB: What I was getting at was that Pedersen wasn’t involved with Irwin the furniture company, when he designed and patented the Pedersen Device for the Springfield Rifle in 1917-18. There was no Irwin in the picture then. He worked for Remington who ultimately manufactured all the Pedersen Devices. It was Saginaw Steering that got the carbine right for them, wasn’t it?
Robert,
I believe it was. Saginaw Steering Gear, a division of General Motors, made automatic transmissions for watercraft. They had their own problems getting started making the carbine, as all companies did.
Pederson never got a single gun accepted by the government, though a few thousand with that name did get accepted after rework by Saginaw.
B.B.
I’ve got a Daisy Model 1894, a regular model. It was my first BB gun, given to me by my parents for Christmas somewhere around the early sixties. It’s still in great shape but I haven’t fired it in over 40 years. I think I lost the elevation adjuster for the rear sight. It’s been in my closet for years.
Other than my original Matchbox cars, it’s the only thing I managed to keep from my childhood. I’ve often wondered how much it’s worth today.
chasblock,
Most 1894 Daisys aren’t worth much. The Texas Ranger was a special deal.
B.B.
Worth? Sounds like it is worth alot, to you. My 1970’s Daisy 880 is “worth” more than the other 20 guns combined. The beat up old bonita ( a tuna like fish that is all but uneatable) fish mount that hung on my Daddy’s office wall, is “worth” more than my boat, to me. As BB said, your 1894 is not worth much as just an old gun to someone else, but how many guns can you buy that was bought, handled, presented to you from your Mom and Dad. Priceless. IMO, get it fixed and shoot it, you will be 10 years old again, and how much is that “worth”?
Gene
I agree Gene,very well stated.Few things can bring back youth as well!
A great way of looking at it. Of course I would never part with it, it means too much to me, both in family memories and shooting it. I still remember getting it on that Christmas morning, very much like Ralphie in A Christmas Story.
What a great perspective! Thanks for that!
I used to collect knives. I had an extensive collection of WWI bayonets (I drooled when you picked up that trench knife). I also had a large bin of fantasy fighting knives. Eventually I came to the realization that I had no real use for any of them except to pull them out every once in a while, look at them and put them back. I sold them all and do my best not to collect anything now.
I have one air rifle in my “collection” now, a FWB 601, and will be selling it shortly to buy another. I do not have a lot of free time to shoot more than one, so why have a bunch that I do not shoot. I do have three air pistols though and plan on keeping two of them unless the right air pistol at the right price comes along and then I will likely get rid of the rest.
Sorry kids, you will not be inheriting a lot of stuff from Daddy.
RR,
So, what kind of air rifle are you looking for?
B.B.
An AirForce Edge or Talon SS. It is time to venture into the world of PCP and I think either of those will keep me occupied for quite some time.
Eventually I will also want to pick up a PCP target pistol when I find one that the owner is not so proud of.
Ridgerunner,if you would Email me……we might be able to arrange a trade on a Talon set up to suite you.My adress is my user name here,plus “pc@aol.com”.I have my Condor,and barrels,tanks & calibers to choose from…..we could set up a Talon to your liking….FWIW. Frank B
We could certainly fix a deal on a last model Feinwerkbau CO2 target pistol (0.177 cal) that works the same as a modern PCP FWB pistol. Needs resealing and some cosmetic work on one tank’s blueing. I would happily like to see her go to a happy gentle home.
Pete Z
I pull out my knives and admire them, but I also swing them around. It’s good exercise.
Matt61
Well,….today is off to a good start.I read the blog in ernest,as I could be called a collector.After finishing my reading,my “bubble” still has air in it.I am NOT a stuffy collector.I buy what I like,and shoot what I buy…..period.My “profit” as it were,is the joy derived from shooting and sharing special airguns.It does take the sting out of scrambling to make ends meet in a bad economy,getting to choose from dozens of airguns to shoot at night.Many of them are the right kind of rare,where shooting and enjoying them takes nothing from their value.
Great read, havnt been commenting but still an avid reader.
I never trust manufacturers when they introduce a commemorative model.
Back in the mid-90’s Nikon brought out a commemorative model of their flagship F5. It was the 50th anniversary of their pro cameras…it had special script, a nice box…and a premium price.
A big deal was make of the limited quantity being produced. I had a pro customer who purchased two of them (these were $3000 bodies…lots of cash in ’95)…one to use and one to leave unopened to appreciate.
Well…lo and behold Nikon sold them out in weeks…and promptly announced that because they had such a huge demand they were going to do another production run.
So much for ‘limited edition’!
CBSD,
Now there IS an eye opener! Maybe they outsourced their Marketing department to the nearest state prison.
-Chuck
Edith, hilarious about your HW gift to B.B. There’s a case of knowing your mark. Interesting about the Circuit Judge. I thought that revolver carbines were obsolete. Well, for ultimate survival guns, you should see the rifle used in the Bourne Legacy…. B.B., what is the design behind the most lethal defense round ever? For rifle ammo, all you can do is change the shape and size of the hollow and maybe the alloys used in jacketing for expansion right? Otherwise, there is the radical DRT ammo filled with powder which dumps all the energy in the target. For shotgun shells, I would think that just about every combination of powder and shot size has been tried. But perhaps for pure defense you would use oversize shot, sort of like the old grape shot used in cannons. Is that it?
Interesting article the other day about things that people try to sneak into their carry-ons on airplanes. That makes me feel better about the 30-06 round for my M1 that I accidentally forgot in a bag that I later used for a carry-on. I got a kindly but stern talking to from the airport police saying that the TSA would definitely send me a warning letter and that I might get fined $1000 and that a second offense would guarantee a $1000 fine. Well, I never even got a letter. And sometime later, I read about some guy at the same airport who tried to pass through security with a loaded Beretta handgun and extra magazines. He was made to take his weaponry back to his car before being allowed to board??!! I guess I’m not on anyone’s radar as a threat. But that’s understandable compared to other stuff that people have tried to carry on. These include parts of guns hidden in stuffed animals, bear spray, a live 40mm grenade, an explosive cannonball, a live eel, venomous snakes….
Matt61
Matt,search on Youtube for “cut Shells” in a shotgun.I believe you will get a “charge” out of those videos.You would also enjoy “FPS Russia”…….set aside an hour just for his videos!
Matt,
Four .410 lead disks with shot between them.
B.B.
BTW: Some more history on the Pedersen device some may find interesting. A modified Springfield rifle that was altered to accept the Pedersen device was called the Mark 1 Rifle. It had a special bolt cut -off , the rifles receiver had an ejection port on the left side, a special sear, a special trigger, and the stock had clearance cut on the left hand side to clear the ejection port, so the .30 ACP would eject . According to Lt Col William Brophy’s book on the 1903 Springfield Rifle, it is reported that the Germans had known about the device during WW1. A complete Mark 1 rifle was found in Germany at the end of WW2! So much for the secrecy surrounding that device in the previous conflict. My cousin had a Mark 1 rifle but no device so I’ve actually seen one.
Just last weekend while at the range a gent walked up to me and declared that I shouldn’t be shooting the gun I was because it would ruin it’s ‘collector’ value. Apparently, to his mind, the first generation Vaqueros with the color case hardened frames are destined to become valuable classics. At over 2k rounds through it I just laughed and kept plugging away, but it did prompt me to do a little research when I got home…and as far as I can determine, there’s nothing special about that particular weapon. I suppose collectibility, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. (sales tactics and genuine rarity aside)
Having caught the air gun bug I’ve quickly accumulated a small collection, but always with an eye towards intended use. However I am _sorely_ tempted by a handful of pistol replicas, (like that be-u-ti-ful Colt replica at the side of the blog) but all of the relatively accurate reproductions shoot bbs!
I have no use for a gun that can’t shoot accurately. Is there a reason these replica manufacturers choose bbs over pellets?
dangerdongle,
Everything is done to make money, so when a manufacturer make a BB gun instead of a pellet gun, that is the motivation. BB guns are cheaper to make, and today there are a lot of airsoft makers that are getting into making steel BB guns because they are son similar. Adding a rifled barrel might be too much of a jump for them.
B.B.
BB, My Dad gave me his Winchester Model 66 Commemorative a few years ago. Nice rifle. Winchester was suppose to build about 44,000 of these, instead they made around 102,000 or so, due to demand. When he gave it to me it had been unfired. Like you stated, it has no real collectors value due to the lack of its rarity, too many had been built. So I figured what the heck, I’m gonna shoot it. What a nice gun. Not only is it pretty with the gold and walnut but it is a nice shooter too!. Accurate and classy. Toby
Toby T,
You did the right thing. If you shoot, you’ll enjoy it. If you collect, your heirs will dump it for a song.
-Chuck
Ha, dangerdongle,
Good question! I think that was in my mind also. As a pellet bigot myself, I wonder why they even make bb guns anymore.
-Chuck
Ever try to buy an old railroad pocket watch? There must be millions of them out there, but seldom do you find them for sale. They all belonged to “Dad” or “Grandpa”. No one wants to part with them, although a great many families own them.
When I started railroading in 1973, I wanted to buy a used railroad pocket watch, even one in need of repair. Could not find one for sale at any price. Of course, that was before e-bay.
Les
I don’t collect anything…. Except junk. At least that’s what my wife calls all of my treasures. Doesn’t matter whether it’s my 98’s and Mosins (historical value/shooters only), pellet guns (shooters only) , tools, or the pieces of steel, aluminum and brass that I have stashed for future use. It’s all junk to her…
/Dave
BB,
I think the Ruger Blackhawk is living up to the hype. PA delivered promptly yesterday afternoon, but I was busy, so it was today before I could try it out (and the urgency had declined since the 36-2 came back to life with a little hack on the piston seal). I wiped a bunch of the gunk out of the barrel with a little brake cleaner and some WD40 then dry patches, grabbed some Superdomes, a can (the official hillbilly plinking target) and 10M target and went shooting. The first shot detonated, and the first handful dieseled heavily, then it settled down nicely, I adjusted elevation and shot a couple of dozen. I have to say that at 10M it is as good as the Hammerli 490 almost straight out of the box, which I was not in any way expecting. I was worried about the Fiber optic sights, but they work for me. I wouldn’t call it harsh or even noisy by any stretch of the imagination, and it should calm down even more. Those are not idle comments on a breakbarrel that is performing like this one seems to be. It is still too early in the “smoking cycle” to take accuracy too seriously, but it was clover-leafing pellets at 10M (or a little more) offhand, and I wasn’t trying hard if at all. Even if it were “defective” (which would show up in harsher shot cycle), it would still be shooting at old school magnum levels.
A couple of things that weren’t quite perfect cosmetically: 1) rear sight is skewed imperceptibly (visibly), causing windage setting to be off to side; still quite a bit of adjustment left, so not a real issue; 2) bevel on “chamber” is slightly off center; the bore is centered and the bevel isn’t far enough off to cause problems loading.
Big “Likes”: 1) The plastic stock (which I chose over the 34P) is a dead ringer for my tupperware Savage ’30-06 w/o putting them side by side. The “checkering” really works better than anything but the most expensive cut checkering on a wood stock; no comparison to cheap stamped or coarsely cut, both of which I’d just as soon prefer to live without. The forearm is very slender esp. for an airgun, and that counts for a lot with me. Balance is near perfect, but keep in mind that my flintlock has a 42″ barrel that weighs ~6 pounds by itself, so most stuff feels light and even whippy to me. The LOP (like most airguns) is a little too long, but better than many at only 14″ (by my measurement), and I shoot it off my arm like a rifle with a proper (crescent) buttplate just fine. I had second thoughts about the synthetic stock (and I would have probably gone D34 wood if I had punted on that), but it is the first airgun stock (including some “nice” ones I’ve handled) I’ve really liked from the get go in terms of not being chunky, esp. in the forearm, and I’m happy I stuck to my guns.
The TO5 clone trigger is a non-issue (I can shoot anything from a 12 pound pull to a set trigger :)), feels pretty reasonable to me as is: I would guess the 3.3lbs on the spec’s is right.
Anyway, I’m impressed. I know (and knew before buying) there are likely scope mounting problems seeing the Industry style cut scope groove (although I don’t think this is a Shanghai rifle), but I will never mount a scope on it, so that doesn’t matter. It would likely be an issue for a new airgunner, and I’m sure that the inexperienced or optically infirm will find a 4×32 scope inadequate, anyway, esp. w/o AO. So, I guess you may be right not testing it for the novice out of the box solution, but if it holds up I think it is something a lot of people might like playing with, and except for the scope issue, it seems like it might be almost ideal for firearms shooters “crossing over” in terms of feel and function if it holds up. Maybe it is not the catastrophe that hard-core airgunners and Ruger lovers often imagine.
BG_Farmer,
Wow. That’s a thorough report! Put a few pictures with it and you have a guest blog.
I’m glad the Ruger Blawhawk lived up to your expectations. It sounds like the Chinese are getting better at building airguns.
B.B.
BB,
You know I get excited either way, but it blew my modest expectations out of the water.
Better is probably conservative characterization, and I think “Ruger” is QC’ing additionally. The gun was new in the box (with the oil and tags to prove it), but it had what appears to be blue loctite on the front stock screws, and the windage offset was dialed into the rear sight (maybe they actually shot it — I suspected that on the Hammerli also). I’m thinking ’80’s Honda type progress. Incidentally, the oil used had a normal machine oil smell, rather than the strange “aroma” of some past Chinese treasures.
I might be able to write up/photo something, but I don’t have a chrony nor any indoor target shooting facilities (which means good days without wind), and I’d like to see how it holds up on the original configuration for a few hundred shots, which may take a while with my schedule these days.
BG_Farmer,
Okay, you can do a redneck guest blog if you like. Use modeling clay in place of a chrono. and give us the kind of test you would normally do for yourself.
I wasn’t bugging you for a blog, but I do think people would be interested in hearing what you think.
B.B.
BG Farmer,
Enjoyed the overview.
Seems I am falling way behind, when I read Ruger Blackhawk I assumed you picked up a new six-shooter at first. If you would of made that a Black label can at the start and likened the plastic stock to a blow up doll, I would have thought I penned it back in the day.
I have nothing new pellet rifle wise to report on, been shooting powder at the range lately.
Volvo,
Well, I would never compare my sledgehammer prose to your lyric excursions, but I’m glad you got a kick out of it. My plan was and still is to get someday whatever you and BB tell me in the ultimate springer line and quit worrying about new air rifles, but I can’t decide between underlever and breakbarrel for what I like to do and am not willing to risk a buy/sell/tune/trade fiasco at the current HW prices (I was assuming it would be HWx7 or R9 type of deal). I was hoping this one would be a decent trial combining what I’ve been liking in the clunks of both persuasions. I am a sell-out on the plastic stocks, by the way, although I’ll stick to wood on the ML’ers and might spring for it on my last air rifle!
I understand about diversification, shooting wise. Come down this way and I’ll get you shooting blackpowder(and whatever else you want), also! I’ve got a BP pistol that I still can’t shoot well, but I bet you could show me what it will do. Oh yes, I saw your description of your CO2 setup, and I approve — wish a basement was feasible here!
A couple weeks ago I bought a packet of the Crosman Varmint targets: a prairie dog, a crow, a squirrel, and a rat. My wife thought they were all inappropriate to shoot at, except for the rat.
She especially thought the prairie dog was too cute to shoot. I tried to explain there is virtually unlimited habitat for prairie dogs out here, and besides, it’s only a picture. Nicky and I shot these targets at 50 yards, me on the prairie dog and him on the crow.
Yesterday, I bought a couple copies of Birchwood-Casey’s “Drain Pipe”, about the most obnoxious-looking rat you could imagine. No protests concerning him.
Les
B.B.,
Is this what you are shooting in the Circuit Judge:
http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx
Looks nasty, curious what you think of it after shooting it some. I am sure most who come here would love to see a write up on it if you can squeeze it in.
Carbine wise I still like my 92 in .357, but I am always looking for an excuse to buy something new.
Volvo,
Yes, that’s it. We won’t shoot that all the time, but that’s what it’ll be loaded with when it stands in the corner next to my bed. Some time in the near future, Tom & I will go to the range and see what kind of damage that round can do at the distances wed’ be most likely to use it for self-defense.
Edith
That ammo is jumping off the shelf around these parts!