2013 SHOT Show: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Vegas characters
Edith and Tom (left) and Mac and his wife, Elissa, prepare to support Yoda as he carves his way through the jammed SHOT Show aisles.

Today, we have Part 2 of the SHOT Show report; but before we get into it, I want to remind you all that I’m showing you only a select smattering of the guns I saw at this show. This is, hands down, the largest SHOT Show ever for airguns. This year, nearly all companies are innovating in a big way, and the results are proudly displayed in their booths. It’ll take some time for the full story to come out.

Also, the SHOT Show is a wholesale show — not a retail show. The products seen there are not necessarily ready for market, yet. Some products get put on the back burner for any number of good reasons, but after they were seen at SHOT, people expect them to be available. In fact, many people don’t understand why they’re not on sale the day the show closes. Well, it doesn’t work that way.

As a writer, my job it to give you the best sense of when a product might become available in the coming year. That can change many times after SHOT closes, so please bear that in mind.

Crosman
I had my official tour of the Crosman products, and a couple of them were holdovers from last year. One was the butterfly hand pump that Crosman engineers have now developed quite thoroughly.

Benjamin hand pump
The Benjamin butterfly hand pump is now far along in development. This is a pre-production sample. Look for it this summer.

I also saw several new guns Crosman plans to bring to market. While they look very developed, I spoke to the engineer who was working with the specifications, and these are not just rebranded items.

Crosman 1911
A new 1911 BB pistol will be available for testing and purchase later this year.

Gamo
I’m going to put Gamo here because their booth was difficult to navigate and understand, as far as I’m concerned. Yes, there are new models, but many of them look to be just reskinned from existing guns and given catchy brands that reflect the TV hunting shows they sponsor. The technology displays (silencer, trigger, gas spring, vibration damper) that were new in 2012 were still displayed as new for 2013, though no changes seem to have been made.

The Little Cat is a new youth model that I’ll test as soon as possible. It’s very lightweight and does have some plastic in key areas like the breech (it’s a breakbarrel); but if it’s done right, it could work. I want to see how well-suited it is for younger shooters.

Gamo Little Cat
The new Gamo Little Cat is a youth-sized spring rifle. Can’t wait to test it!

The other airgun that piqued my interest at Gamo was their new MP-9 — a semiautomatic BB gun that resembles the Ingram submachinegun. It’s powered by CO2 and looks very cool. It was displayed in such a way that I could not actually hold it — and there were no Gamo representatives available in the booth both times we visited it. So, we’ll just have to wait and see what comes in the box.

Gamo MP9 BB submachinegun
The Gamo MP9 (the sign is confusing — this isn’t a PT-85 Blowback Tactical) looks like a cool new BB gun.

Other news
American Airgunner has gained a new host. Rossi Morreale, from television’s Belly of the Beast and Junkyard Wars, will take the lead with the airgun show starting its fourth season. I’ll be appearing in a few episodes this year, the first of which was filmed at the 2013 SHOT Show. So, I’ve now come full circle.

Tom and Rossi American Airgunner
Tom meets Rossi to discuss SHOT on American Airgunner.

There’s a lot more to cover, including some great new scopes from Leapers and a dynamite action target for airsoft guns. Next week.

99 Responses to “2013 SHOT Show: Part 2”

  • kevin Says:

    Predictions in the airgunning world for 2013

    Here’s mine. I predict the Gaylords buy a hot tub to soothe tired feet, legs and backs. For those that have been to a 3 day expo you know the reason for my prediction.

    kevin

    • Wulfraed Says:

      People get used to walking…

      How many get used to holding a moderately heavy camera (let’s see: 26oz body [?battery included?], est. 28oz lens, 17oz flash [with batteries]… 71oz, not quite 4.5lbs) held in portrait orientation, during a session of ~180 shots in 30 minutes… Remember, the lens sticks out the front, torquing the camera towards the floor [pitch] — and the flash sticks out the left, torquing a rotation (roll). One hand is basically held palm up near the chin, and the other is palm-down with shutter finger to the left — the weight is on the lower (left) hand, while the upper (right) is taking the torques.

      That was the fursuit parade at FURtherCONfusion 2011 [due to the layoff and move to MI I did not attend 2012, and sure can't afford to fly to CA for this week-end's affair].

      subject change

      Okay — so the air pump is still in work, but closer… Hope this is the year. Even if the linkage result in needing more pumps to reach pressure, if it takes less force at the upper pressure levels it’s got to be a winner.

      • Slinging Lead Says:

        You must remember that BB spends much time testing rifles that weigh 10 pounds or more with scope. Also he served in the army, so 5 pounds give or take is nothing compared to what he used to slog around no matter how long ago it was. His dogs might have been barking at the end of the day, but I bet he had a spring in his step while he was in his element. I can think of worse ways to spend 3 days.

        It was interesting to see what BB would look like if he lost his luxurious head of hair.

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          SL,

          Thanks for the kind words. I wish I still had a spring in my step, but I’m afraid my spring canted and broke years ago. ;)

          B.B.

    • Kevin,

      We’re both dedicated wearers of those Skecher’s Shape Up shoes we mentioned in a comment last year. Neither one of us have sore feet. We walk & walk & walk. Zero pain, zero swelling. In fact, when we get back to the hotel, we have dinner & then walk all over Circus Circus (where we always stay) to find paying slot machines :-)

      Edith

      • Mike Says:

        Hmm………I think “Paying Slot Machines” is an oxymoron! :)

        Mike

      • Matt61 Says:

        I knew it. With a technology assist or otherwise, you both are Frank Mann, author of The Bullet’s Flight… who had such fantastic feet that he could run around on them all day long.

        Matt61

    • Victor Says:

      Kevin,

      What can really wear one out is all the goodies (freebies) that are offered. With my bad back, I need something with wheels.

      Victor

  • goatboy Says:

    It’s just as well that most of these products will not be available for sale for at least a year or three as that will give me enough time to save up my hard earned coffers, and some of those shown do have that ‘oh so’ in vogue tactical look that even pique my interest. Although my neighbours are very understanding about my target practice with my rifles that look like air rifles, I’m sure they’ll have kittens if the see me popping off a few shots with a fully modded up Uzi look a like.

    So while i wait for these products to appear on the market it will give me plenty of time to jazz up the air rifles i already have, but only those that I’ve either been given or acquired dirt cheap. My Air arms and wiehrauchs will only be getting better scopes and lamps, and maybe a bi pod for the pcp’s, i wouldn’t want to be messing around with those sexy thangs

    Oh yes, there are sure some very lovely pistols and rifles on their way, lets just hope i don’t develop sciatica while waiting for them, anyway love and lentils from the UK. TTFN

    best wishes wing commander Sir Nigel Tetlington-Smythe. MBE

  • Mel Says:

    Thanks for the report…I’d like to add that the Gamo MP9 ist a replica of the Steyr MP9, not the Ingram.

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    I can see where fingers and such are not going to be too crazy about that pump.

  • /Dave Says:

    I don’t see how that linkage will make the end of the pump stroke any different than what it is now. Not saying it won’t, but the design isn’t clicking in my head…

    /Dave I

  • J-F Says:

    The Gamo MP9 looks interesting, I never bought the steel storm because of it’s lack of shoulder stock but if this one has full auto or even just burst it will be a riot to shoot.
    I’m more interested in the blowback version of the Crosman 1911. I heard prices of around 80$ if this is true I think it should sell quite well given how the Tanfoglio Witness is selling.
    I want MORE of these accurate blowback replicas, more, more, more!

    J-F

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      J-F,

      Wilco!

      B.B.

      • J-F Says:

        Wilco?

        A friend of mine just sent me the 2013 KWC catalog and just like last year it has a blowback Luger AND broom handle Mauser!
        They’ve also added a Beretta 92 (not the Taurus available now) and a few other goodies.

        https://www.box.com/s/3qpik8ar056o12tp50z5

        • kevin Says:

          J-F,

          Re: Wilco?

          It’s a term used in radio communication. When short, clear and concise communication is critical.

          Wilco means your message was received and I will comply. “Wil” = Will “co” = comply

          One of those old skills that I thought was outdated and destined for the back of the closet of my experiences but found that it works well on the internet too!

          kevin

          • Michael Says:

            Folks over 35: “Roger. Wilco.” Under 35, “Roger. Copy that.”

            To fall out of your chair laughing, find the clip on youtube from Airplane! with Flight Captain Oveur, Co-pilot Roger, cockpit navigator Victor, and air traffic controller Clarence. Who’s on First, but even funnier, IMO.

            “Flight 2-0-9′er cleared for vector 324.”

            “We have clearance, Clarence.”

            “Roger, Roger. What’s our vector, Victor? ”

            “Tower’s radio clearance, over!”

            “That’s Clarence Oveur. Over.”

            “Over.”

            “Roger.”

            “Roger, over!”

            Michael, Over and out.

          • J-F Says:

            Ah thanks, it makes sense. I work in security for 4 years, I had a radio with me from the time I came in until I left at the end of my shift and had never heard of that.
            We mostly used these boring number codes (10-4/10-16/10-9 etc). Wilco, roger and over are much nicer to me but I guess the link Michael provided probably explains why they went with numbers, finding someone calle 10-06 much be much harder than someone called Roger LOL

            J-F

            • Wulfraed Says:

              My understanding is that, since the September 11 attacks, most agencies are dropping the use of numeric codes. Reason — they weren’t consistent across agencies, making inter-agency operations difficult (though Wikipedia implies Katrina was the real impetus — possibly true as most of the Sep11 affair was under local agencies which probably had common code lists; Katrina was local/state/fed and various agencies in each).

              Heck, just between CB and some Police departments there was conflict between 10-33 and 10-36 (a quick search shows both using -33 for emergency and -36 for time check, but I’d seen at least one listing in the 70s-80s that crossed them — a CBer asking for a time check would be read as an emergency by the police department). And 10-100 is (CB) bathroom break (police) dead body

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          J-F,

          Wilco is a military slang term that’s short for will comply.

          B.B.

        • nowhere Says:

          Although I’m not a rabid fan of replica airguns (I always figured just having the KWC made Tanfoglio 1911 would be enough to satisfy my appetite for this category of gun) I find myself really hoping that someone will bring the blowback P-08 and C-96 replicas into Canada! I’m never going to be able to put up the money needed to buy the real things (especially the C-96!) so I figure it would be well worth getting these assuming they’re of the same quality as the 1911 copy. Too bad they’re never going to make a Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless replica. For some reason I’ve always had a soft spot for the lines of those little pistols.

  • David Enoch Says:

    BB,
    You left me hanging on the rest of the AirForce news. You said tomorrow a couple of days ago. Maybe you meant Manana. Of the things you have shown us so far I like the AirForce Condor SS and the Marauder with the synthetic stock the best.

    David Enoch

    • Michael Says:

      B.B.

      The upcoming butterfly hand pump, new Marauder and Condor SS have me seriously considering moving over to the dark side, something I never thought would happen.

      I am not a hunter, just a basement paper-puncher and backyard plinker, so quiet shooting, velocities around 750 fps with CPLs, accuracy, and shots-per-fill are my needs. Knowing what you do about the present version of the Condor, what do you think of the following idea: a Condor SS .177 with Talon tank (or Condor tank, if more appropriate) set at a very low power setting?

      Or, my other idea would be the new Marauder achieving the above performance by adjusting for a light hammer strike and an under-the-stock lower power setting?

      Your thoughts?

      Thanks very much,

      Michael

      • J-F Says:

        I’m exactly like you and would go with the same choices.
        Right now I have a Crosman 1701P turned into a carbine and a detuned for the Canadian market Hatsan AT-44 10 shot repeater. Very accurate and not too noisy.

        Dave if you wish to see the Talon SS besides the Condor SS PA posted some pics of them together on facebook yesterday. If you don’t do the facebook thing I’ll send you a link to the pic when I get home or maybe the SHOT show reports are avaioable directly from PA?

        J-F

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        Michael,

        Here is what I think. The Marauder has that conventional airgun appeal. The AirForce guns are more tactical. The power goes to the AirForce. The trigger is close to being a tossup, except the Marauder trigger is adjustable.

        Accuracy is a wash, as my 100-yard group demonstrated.

        I would say follow your heart, because you’ll be living with your choice a long tiome.

        B.B.

      • Wulfraed Says:

        For those velocities, the Micro-Meter tank might be the better choice on the Condor — except for the continuous power-drop as it doesn’t implement the classic bathtub power curve.

        I was getting ~700fps with 14gr .22 and Micro-Meter tank, dial at 8-0. But look up BB’s test of the tank…

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      David,

      There is more coming. Another SHOT Show report with additional detail about some of the things I skipped.

      I just need to get home to have time to research and write it.

      B.B.

  • Chuck Says:

    Tom,
    Did you see anything at the show that could dispatch these 60 feet underwater. My dive buddy took this last week (I’m not into UW photog yet).

    https://picasaweb.google.com/cjrley/Bonaire2013?authkey=Gv1sRgCPjjr8X2n_WIRw#5834780314577551922

    The reefs here are proliferated with these and they’re threatening the biodiversity of the area.They are not native here, being accidentally released a few years ago from a Miami acquarium. Only the dive master can spear them and he is only allowed to use a stick.

    -Chuckj

    • kevin Says:

      Chuck,

      Shoot 60 feet underwater?

      Mythbusters did a show on shooting a variety of guns into water including a .50 caliber. The .50 cal with armor-piercing rounds, which are shot at 3000 ft/s. went ten feet into the water.

      kevin

      • Chuck Says:

        kevin,
        I don’t know if it makes a difference but I’ll be 60 feet underwater WITH the fish. I wonder if you get the same range if the bullet doesn’t start out in the air first like it did with the Mythbusters? Regardless, you are able to get very close to the Lionfish without spooking them, so anything in the 5 foot range would be ideal. All that’s needed is to get ignition underwater.
        -Chuckj

        • kevin Says:

          Chuck,

          Just heard back from my buddy Paul. Paul lives in boca raton and hunts lionfish in southern florida. He said you need to get a lion tamer. Similar to pole spears with rubber bands but the liontamer was designed specifically for lion fish. I don’t know anything about it but suspect you could find information about it on google.

          kevin

          • Chuck Says:

            kevin,
            Yes, the dive masters have talked about those. They seem like a logical answer, however, the powers that be here will not let them use anything except an unpropelled hand held spear. They are concerned about their customers getting accidentally speared, so primitive spear stabbing is their only option. Personally, I think every diver should get a spear and the problem would be taken care of quickly. The problem there is they think we divers would go around spearing everything that moved and not just the Lionfish. Ridiculous!!!! But then they know their clientele better than I do apparently.
            -Chuckj

            • kevin Says:

              Chuck,

              So they’ll let you dive with a spear but not one with a small rubber band mounted? They would fit right in in Washington.

              kevin

              • Chuck Says:

                kevin,
                It’s even worse than that: they only let certain “qualified” divers have spears, i.e.: resort dive masters who’s qualification is they know how to drive a boat. “Qualified” meaning cause they said so. But if this Dutch island was ever invaded by Venezuela us divers will be armed with our 3″ blade dive knives.
                -Chuckj

        • Wulfraed Says:

          Remember, water doesn’t accelerate as easily as air… So your chamber pressures are going to be much higher just shoving all that water out the barrel ahead of the intended projectile.

          Lets see… .22 caliber, 18″ barrel => 45 cm^3 (or ml). 1ml of pure water (salt water is likely heavier) is considered 1gram… 45gram of water is ~692grains…

          So what velocity are you expecting? (I can’t even pervert ChairGun Pro for this — it won’t allow >200grain)

          Spearguns are slow with a massive projectile.

          • Chuck Says:

            Wulfraed,
            If they did decide to give them firearms (highly, highly unlikely) they’d probably give them revolvers to use underwater. :-)

            Incidentally, I carry my condo keys in a ziplock bag in my BC and by the time I get back to the condo after a dive the key ring and key is corroded and the bag has brown rusty looking water in it. Salt water acts that fast. Think what it would do to a gun.
            -Chuckj

    • duskwight Says:

      Chuck,

      I seem to know a weapon for that – Russian ADS dual-environmental assault rifle with 5.45×39 PSP dart round. Effective range of 18 m @ 20 m deep must be right what you need to deal with this kind of poisonous threat. I guess 1 would dart would be enough, but in case you need more – it has full-auto and 40-mm grenade launcher ;)

      duskwight

      • Fred DPRoNJ Says:

        I think the 40 mm grenade launcher will be just fine, Chuck. Duskwright, the grenade launcher does work underwater? I know it will detonate underwater but how far will it launch if fired underwater? Might be a surface only weapon.

        Fred DPRoNJ

        No ammo here in Jersey! There is a rumor going around that Obama has stock in Remington.

        • duskwight Says:

          Fred,

          It does, but one must use special grenades – not usual caseless VOGs, but “frog” grenades with “cold launch” and optimized shape for underwater use. Concussion weapon with 15 m range.

          duskwight

      • Chuck Says:

        duskwight and Fred,
        Please remember I need to be able to get out of the blast range and that ain’t too fast under water. Also, I think I’d catch a lot of heat for blowing up the reef, too.
        -Chuckj

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Chuck

      Miami? I thought the lionfish escaped from the New Orleans aquarium during hurricane Katrina. Perhaps both things are true.

      • Chuck Says:

        SL,
        Yes, it was Miami, hurricane Andrew, in 1992. Maybe Katrina did too, I did not hear that, but these fish were here long before Katrina hit. If Katrina released any non-indigenous fish it will take them a few more years to proliferate enough to reach here. I’m about 60 miles off the north coast of Venezuela.

        • J-F Says:

          Wouldn’t catching and reselling them be easier not to mention a lot more cost effective?
          I just checked at petco and price varies from 10$ to 110$ depending on size and species of that lion fish.

          J-F

          • Chuck Says:

            J-F,
            Good question. I’ll see if anyone has an answer. Maybe trapping and holding Lionfish during a recreational dive could be a difficult task and too much of a distraction for the dive master. For some reason they do not want to hire professional Lionfish hunters. This island is a protected national underwater park and recreational area and maybe they want to protect that image. The dive master’s first responsibility is to his customers underwater safety. Maybe catching Lionfish, dragging them underwater during a 60-80 minute dive without getting stung and storing them live on the dive boat at the end of a dive, plus being available to perform diver assistance or rescue if needed are too much for them.
            -Chuckj

    • Matt61 Says:

      What you need is one of these camouflage wetsuits like I’m starting to see in Hawaii. They make you pretty much invisible against a reef.

      Matt61

      • Chuck Says:

        Matt,
        Stealth is not an issue so camo duds aren’t needed. A diver can get within inches of a Lionfish before they try to evade.
        -Chuckj

  • duskwight Says:

    Nice poster. B.B. :)
    And I suppose that lightsaber’s “whoosh!” in this version was substituted by compressed air’s “hiss!”. Hey, and I seem know now why Darth Vader breathes so heavy – he must’ve hand-pumped PCPs for an entire batallion of stormtroopers!
    Hey, that just struck me – those 100-yard groups – weren’t they a result of some Jedi trick?! Some Force steering…

    duskwight

  • Frank B Says:

    BB & Edith,love the poster! Tom,you looked more at home with a Colt in the “Old” west.

  • john Says:

    I’m very curious about that new butterfly pump. What makes it better or easier to use and what do those wing things do to help it?

    • Wulfraed Says:

      From last spring — Crosman’s description: http://www.crosman.com/croswords/?p=2420

      • john Says:

        Alright. I am sold on the idea if it actually works as they say it works. I tend to remain a bit sceptical but if it makes pumping up my Condo easier I’ll try it. I’m definitely not a fly weight and I posess enough force to pump a gun to 3000 psi, but I like the idea of not needing all that force to do it. In the heat of mid-summer I tend to think twice before pulling out my favorite gun and opt for something a bit less devastating and accurate.

        • Wulfraed Says:

          My doctor considers me 10-15lbs overweight — and I don’t weigh enough to directly finish the stroke at the upper end either (more a case of lock my hands against my hips/beltline and “dropping” onto the handle so the momentum from gravity completes the stroke).

          • john Says:

            I do the same thing. I’m not overweight but I am a fairly large man so I have the brute force to drive that pump into the bottom stroke and enough height to get the pump to the top stroke. But less work sounds good to me. I have a friend that is smaller and lighter than me and he just can’t manage to get past around 2500 psi even when putting his full weight on the pump.

          • J-F Says:

            So what you’re actually saying is I shouldn’t lose weight or I won’t be able to pump my PCP’s anymore… interesting!

            J-F

          • Matt61 Says:

            Try some martial arts with the pump. The temptation is to tense up while you’re giving the stroke. But in doing this you are using your own energy to align and support your own weight. Instead, relax and exhale as you drop your weight and give it all to the pump. Physically you are setting all the movable mass inside your body into motion in addition to the skeleton. It’s the same effect as my grandmother who, in the final years of her life, was almost completely immobile. But though she was quite small, she was incredibly heavy to move around because she was so relaxed. And I think the principle is the same as why a small child who is squirming around is so much harder to carry than a grocery bag of the same weight.

            Matt61

          • J-F Says:

            One of my friends used the smartets and most ingenious way to pump his airguns without much effort.
            He bolter the pump to his barn/shop/indoor range floor and replaced the handle with a loooong lever that has one end bolted to the wall. The strokes are longer but because of the leverage it can be pumped with one hand while sitting down.
            It’s not pretty, takes a lot of space but makes pumping a breeze.

            J-F

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      John,

      The butterfly pump uses “those wing things” to magnify the force applied to the handle. It is the same thing as the pump-assist Benjamin 392 that I tested several years ago.

      http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/01/pump-assist-benjamin-392-part-5.html

      B.B.

      • Michael Says:

        B.B.,

        This is nit-picking, but it might be “magnify the force applied BY the handle,” using the same principle that makes a poke in the ribs by a broom handle MUCH more forceful than a poke in the ribs by, say, a capped 3 oz. can of Ballistol. The longer the lance, the more likely a hit will knock a knight off his steed.

        Therefore, I see the new Benji pump as a major development for anyone like me. I wish to avoid the cost of an SCBA and the long drives to get a 4500 psi fill. I’ve never seriously considered a pcp because of that issue. But the new Marauder and Condor SS look sooooooo tempting, and if I can buy a pump that will easily (I weigh 325 lbs.) take my (future) Marauder from 1800 to 2500, hey, HEY!

        Michael

        • Wulfraed Says:

          My impression is that the new pump trades off stroke length for force (note that in the linked diagrams, the pump “tube” moves half the distance of the handle “rod”). The maximum force tends to be when the linkage is at 90deg — in effect the pump moves equal to the rod.

          {apologies but…} I was running 178lbs (but after a year of lay-off/unemployment am now up around 185) and /can/ manage 3000psi in a Condor tank (the Marauder’s smaller tank is less tiring: Condor takes ~15 strokes per 100PSI, Marauder is ~10 strokes, and the Silhouette pistol is ~5 srokes… So pumping up a Condor tank takes three times the work-out as the pistol)

          • Michael Says:

            Wulfraed,

            What you’ve written above and below is very instructive to me. If at your size “all” you need to do to pump from 2000 psi to 2500 is lean on the handle and bend your knees, for me, given that I weigh almost twice as much as you :^( it would mean simply leaning forward with my elbows locked . . . effortless. Where I would find effort, and it would definitely add up, is in straightening back up 250 times! The very good news is that is just the sort of aerobic exercise I need.

            When I was in my twenties and weighed as much as you weigh now, I did a lot of road and off-road cycling. The pump I had for my bicycles had stirrups and two cylinders. It pumped air when you pushed it down, and it also pumped air when you PULLED the handle up!

            Michael

            • Wulfraed Says:

              I think regular PCP pumps also pump in both directions — just not into the gun. Downstroke pushes narrow column at high pressure into the base/gun, and lets atmospheric air into the outer cylinder. Upstroke pushes outer cylinder air into the inner column, adding some pressurization.

              You’d need to attach your car if the 3000psi was being carried on a piston with the diameter of the pump — a 1″ diameter piston would be 0.785 square inches and support (if my math is a valid hypothesis) 2356 lbs. A .35″ piston would support 300lbs at 3000psi. (And watch out for stiletto heels on a raised floor)

              • Michael Says:

                Wulfraed,

                Much of what you wrote went right over my head, but I’m aware of the thousands of pounds of pressure per square inch that a 130 pound woman exerts on a floor if she is wearing stiletto heels. There are a half dozen or so office buildings in the South Loop in downtown Chicago that survived the Chicago Fire and are the oldest office buildings in town. It’s an historic district known as Printer’s Row. These buildings have their original wood flooring (much of it soft woods). As you walk into one you’ll see a small sign that says, “No high-heeled shoes allowed in this building.”

                Kinda surreal.

                Michael

      • /Dave Says:

        Got it now! I forgot about the other link on the 1st stage piston. Between Wulfraed’s and your link, that geometry makes sense now. Didn’t make much sense with that link missing…

        Thanks,
        /Dave

  • Matt61 Says:

    I thought that the Benjamin Discovery already had a pump that was very efficient. Is the butterfly pump an improvement? Something different? All the bb guns look very nice, but I’m ruined for them after the accuracy of pellet guns.

    Mike, yes the uncontrollability of the M14 on full-auto was mostly due to its full power cartridge, and semi-auto is more efficient than full auto in most combat situations. The best example of this was the Falklands War when the FN-FAL was being used by both sides except full-auto by the Argentinians and semi-auto for the British. The British win seems to prove the point. However, there are other factors such as the high professionalism of the British military. I am astounded at what they were able to achieve with the Lee-Enfield. And it’s a fact that during the reign of Queen Victoria, they fought 60 different wars. Also, the straight line stock is not to be dismissed as a recoil reducer. The new Mk14 EBRs with the straight stock are quite controllable in full-auto with pretty much the same mechanism as the old M14s.

    Robert from Arcade, wow, I do sympathize with having to deal with the first assault weapons ban. Out in California we’re used to the limitation of magazines although I think the limit is 10 and not 7. I wonder if the assault weapons ban is coming next here. I kind of suspect not since the assault rifles are already so hobbled with the magazine lock requirements that I don’t think anyone will perceive them as a threat. Anyway, my decision about getting an Arsenal AK is pretty much made since they look to be sold out into the far future. My main concern is a law to ban online ammunition sales which would leave a lot of my collection high and dry.

    Michael N. I see you are a Tolkien fan. (Did you notice how B.B. is following the mythology angle in the pic? And a fine likeness I should think.) I know of the Silmarillion but it was too dense with its genealogies and outlandish names for me to make a go of it. Either Tolkien went off the rails or he transcended into some higher level where I wasn’t able to follow him. My aim is to snatch the bait from the trap by reading summaries and excerpts as I relayed last time. I was also wondering what the big deal was with the Ring of Power being destroyed. Couldn’t Sauron make another one? It turns out not because to give the Ring the power that it had, he had to transfer much of his own power into it permanently. It was a classical business decision whereby he sought to leverage his capabilities into something greater at some risk. So, when his Ring was destroyed he was truly up the creek. In particular, having gone through a number of bodies, he was left unable to create any more. This isn’t as far-fetched as it sounds when I think of my attachment to my guns. Some here may remember my state of mind when I thought that my Savage 10FP was stolen in transfer or when my Enfield was messed up by the first gunsmith with a sticky bolt and then when the second gunsmith sent it back unable to feed. And then there was the time when I forgot to lock up my guns when I went away and then got an acute sense of how vulnerable they were too stealing. In my mind, they were just about as good as stolen, and I was a mere shell of a man…

    I believe that Tolkien actually made up his fantasy land as a place to hang his imaginary languages which were his real interest. Some of his creation myth would tend to support that since all of creation is envisioned as music in some abstract sense of which Middle Earth is just a materialization. If he was operating from such an artistict perspective, I can see how he would make the arch-villain out to be a technologist. Another source of his work, though, was Tolkien’s own combat experience in the First World War which form the basis of his battle scenes. I believe some of the work was dreamed up while convalescing in a hospital, and so I am convinced that Tolkien was familiar with the Enfield rifle!

    For fans of the “surprise break” technique in shooting, answer me this. My latest training has reinforced the importance of follow-through. But if this is the case, how does one do a surprise break which implies that one doesn’t know when the shot releases. If that is true, the projectile is long gone before you get around to following through. So it sounds like you can have either a surprise break or a follow through but not both. Perhaps one answer as B.B. has suggested is that in the surprise break you do sort of have a zen like sense of when the shot releases without really knowing it. If that’s so, then either I haven’t reached that level (very possible) or maybe the technique needs a new name.

    Matt61

    • Wulfraed Says:

      The Discovery is a 2000psi gun, is it not?

      The first 2000psi isn’t difficult (at least, for me). I can do that with just upper body and arm flexing.

      2000-2500psi requires me to lock my elbows and flex at the knees to use my body weight.

      2500-3000psi requires not only locked elbows, but but locking my thumbs against my belt line and “dropping” en-mass — my abdominal muscles aren’t sufficient to keep my back from straightening against the down push (that is, if a try with just locked elbows and flexing at the knees, my spine ends up bending backwards rather the pump handle going down).

    • J-F Says:

      I like Tolkien but not a HUGE fan.
      Sauron put so much in the ring that when he was cut of from it he ceased to exist almost entirely, all that was left was his eye, so there was no way he could make another one.
      They never say WHO made the other rings, they say a number were made for the elves, the dwarfs and for the humans but I don’t remember reading about WHO made them…

      J-F

      • Vince Says:

        Yes, that’s correct. The World Health Organization made the rings.

        • Michael Says:

          I think that’s “Who” as in “The Dr.” (It seems that we’re all nerds not only in airgunning, LOL.)

          BTW, the Sonic Screwdriver delivers 15,300 fpe.

          Michael

  • Matt61 Says:

    While at the shooting range in Hawaii, I was absently watching a guy with an AK47. It had a skeleton stock. He set himself at the bench and leaned forward towards his receiver mounted sight. And kept leaning. It looked something like this.

    http://thewrongadvices.com/zeitgeist/Brigitte-Nielsen/

    Also on the subject of regulation and enforcement of laws, I have found a loophole for myself. All of my airgun equipment is so good and so enjoyable that it’s very hard to justify buying more things. But I’ve realized that I have friends and relations who are not nearly as well-equipped, so I can send things to them. As a case in point, my Surefire tac light does the job for me. But I just ordered two of the UTG flashlight with the different power settings that B.B. recommended to two other people. I can’t wait to hear the feedback or try them out in the case of my brother when I visit him.

    Matt61

  • goatboy Says:

    I have found that pumping air into my PCP rifle an excellent addition to my exercises regime, however it’s costing me a small fortune in pellets to do this 3 times a day. I use a Hill pump and it does me fine tho I’m pretty healthy, so for those not so fit or suffering a mild disability i can see the advantages of the new Crosman design.

    TTFN

    wing commander Sir Nigel Tetlington-Smythe

  • vincent lie Says:

    I sometimes got a spray of brownish sludge on bleeder valve after filling routine using my hill pump.

    Is this normal residual from silicon grease I use for lubricating pump rod or rust accumulated from inside the pump?

    any pump user experience the same thing?

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Vincent,

      It;’s not rust, because the Hill is made of aluminum. It’s probably airborn dirt and water mixed with silicone.

      B.B.

  • john Says:

    That gamo MP9 is cool looking. I hope it has a smooth bore or I can’t get it in Michigan without a pistol permit and of course hauling it from a FFL dealer to the cops after I get it for a complete safety inspection of the gun, at which point I might never see the gun again since our local cops don’t normally return a bb gun, or any gun for that fact. I had 2 airsoft guns stolen once. When they found them they made me sign a form so they could destroy them. Nothing I said or did could get them back.

    • Wulfraed Says:

      You’ve not purchased a handgun in the last few years, have you? Instead of the old 3-part permit to purchase followed by a 3-part “safety inspection” it is now just a 4-part “application and license to purchase”.

      When I moved back into the state last year I had to fill out /eight/ of the bloody things — 4 pellet pistols and 4 powder cartridge… Kentwood PD didn’t even want to see the pistols — I just had to take the forms with name/address/notary home, fill in the model/serial/etc. information, and take the forms back the next day.

      Granted, for purchase, you will have to find a dealer with the gun (and maybe have them put a hold on it while you get the paperwork first), fill in the details, dealer gets a copy, two copies to the PD (I can’t recall, but I think the form actually allowed for /mailing/ back to the PD)

      At least black powder aren’t tracked, or I’d have two more (and one I’d owned in MI in the 70s when no papers had been needed).

      The T/C Contender I did not fill out new papers on — the state already had my thumb print from 1980 when I’d bought it…

      • john Says:

        I don’t normally buy pistols since I consider all the paperwork and whatever else to be too much trouble. I stick to smooth bore bb pistols if I want to do a bit of fun shooting. Everything else I oqwn is a pellet rifle for hunting or a larger caliber hunting rifle. I tried a black powder rifle once but I didn’t really like messing with the temperamental thing, so i sold it. Most of what i do is varmint hunting on local farms to help keep crop damage down. But when I find something like that MP9 I just gotta have it. So i’ll patiently wait for someone to sell one used somewhere and jump on it then if I can’t have it, or I’ll make a trip to Pyramyd Air to pick one up. No paperwork that way. The difficulty lies in shipping, not having it. I just don’t want the headache involved for a simple bb gun.

        • Wulfraed Says:

          Well — if it is just a BB pistol, it shouldn’t be a problem (other than finding someone carrying it).

          It’s just those with rifled barrels for lead pellets that need the state paperwork (and they are an explicit category (Semi-auto; Revolver; Shotgun-Pistol; Pellet; Other — Hmm, where do those revolvers that handle .410 shotshells fit… Do you mark two boxes? Or a Contender — single shot probably fits as Other, but what if you later bought a shot barrel?)

          • john Says:

            I also can’t get a Drozzd bb gun. It fires bb’s only but has a rifled bore as do all the gamo pistols. It’s rather stupid if you ask me. It’s not like a bb gun is overly dangerous. It’s all about politicians and what they use to control people. It’s just way more of a headache than any bb gun is worth to go through finding an FFL dealer to order the thing, then getting the permit, filling out paperwork, being fingerprinted……I’m not going to go through all that for an injection molded plastic gun just so I can shoot at an old pop can with a $100 gun no matter how cool it looks.

  • joseph Says:

    to introduce myself: I’m a76 year old NZ-der with the standard heart problems but have no problem pumping my FX 2000 to 3000lbs,the secret is to let the pump cool off after each 500lbs,even more at higher pressures.Lubricate the pump with powdered graphite by puffing some in the pump intake. You can buy these puffers from a locksmith,they are used to lubricate Yale-type locks.Graphite can also be bought in bulk, a1lb can will last forever.Lubricate the piston washer in springers and pumpwashers in single- and multi-pump rifles with dry graphite powderby regularly puffing some _powder down the transfer port. No chance of dieseling that I’ve noticed, everything works smoother.Rub some -powder on the trigger sear surfaces with a dedicated used toothbrush(never throw one away,they can be used for allsorts of purposes)Keep this toothbrush well primed with -powder, use it to rub the sightadjuster screw threads or any thread at all.I keep all oil and grease well away from my air guns as it will atract dust and causes wear.A pinhead of graphited oil on the hinge joints and triggerparts is all that’s needed.Use a furniture polish oil sparingly on the outside,steel and woodwork,never store a rifle in a bag or case unless you check regularly. That’s it for now, regards from New Zealand ,Jeff

    • J-F Says:

      Graphite is awesome, I would sprinkle some on my cereals if I could… as long as it’s not mixed with something else like liquid lubricants.
      I used to work as a locksmith and I put graphite in all of my locks then someone from maintenance gets hold of can of WD-40 and passes behind you and sprays it in just to make sure it’s well lubed and he sees all that grayish stuff coming out so of course he thinks it must dirty so he sprays some more and the stuff turns to sludge and will attract dirt and worst (for my climate as I’m in Canada, I’m sure you don’t have that problem in NewZealand ;-) ) it will freeze solid in winter!
      I was working as a locksmith at a big 5000+ employees business and the security guards would carry a propane torch usually used to do plumbing to heat the frozen padlocks, it would cause condensation and the locks would re-freeze in an instant UGH.
      So I switched to a liquid lubricant (Pro-Lab PL100).
      So graphite yes, if you’re the only using the stuff that you put it on.

      J-F

    • Fred DPRoNJ Says:

      Jeff or Joseph,

      welcome to the Blog. We all like different outlooks and opinions from others, especially from other parts of the world. The accepted lubricant for moving parts – metal on metal if you will, is molydenum di-sulfide or “moly” for short, on this blog. Graphite seems like a very good alternative that I hadn’t thought of. Seals on PCP’s or springers, we only will use silicone unless it’s an older springer with a leather seal. Then we like motor oil – non-detergent 20 wt or so to restore the leather seal. For CO2, a drop of that oil on the tip of the CO2 cartridge is advised everytime you install the cartridge to keep the various seals lubed and gas tight.

      If you’re near Christchurch, please stop by 28B Byron Street and ask for John and/Allison and tell them Fred from NJ says Hi. (I need to call them anyway). Hope you become a regular here.

      Fred DPRoNJ

  • spike Says:

    Hello all, I’m new to the Blog thing. Not even sure if I’m in even in the right area….
    Anyway onto my question…I’m really considering purchasing a PCP rifle. But I hear bad things about hand pumps, buying scuba tanks, shoe box compressors, extra air tanks, valves, etc. I see a huge amount of $$$ being spent to get going, just to punch paper and knock down a few varmints.
    What would be the easiest transition (if there is one) to get going in the PCP world?
    Thanks

  • spike Says:

    Thanks Edith.
    I have several break barrels and my .22 Benji is my fav. So I would go with a .22 PCP for sure. How many shots are you getting with your Discovery and how long does it take you to get to 2,000 psi? Do you use a compressor system at all?
    Thanks for your input.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Spike,

      Initially it takes about 100-125 pump strokes to fill the rifle. After that you never let the rifle get empty again. You shoot from 2,000 psi (or more likely around 1,850 psi) down to about 1,000 psi. That will be 22-25 good shots.

      Then it will take about 25-35 pump strokes to get back to full again. Think of 1.5 pump strokes per shot.

      B.B.

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        Spike,

        No, you don’t need a compressor or a scuba tank. The hand pump works very well with the Discovery.

        B.B.

  • spike Says:

    Thanks B.B.
    Funny, the Discovery was one of my first choices along with the Marauder. I’m glad to see it is well received.
    I will take a look at your report on the discovery and I really appreciate your help. One last, and I’m sure you cover this in your report, but what pellet does the .22 Discovery favor the most. I know each rifle has its own preference.
    Thanks again!!

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Spike,

      I found that both the Crosman Premiers in the cardboard box and the 15.9-grain JSB Exact Jumbos did very well in the Discovery I tested. The rifle I tested was a prototype, because Crosman was still developing the gun, but in my experience those JSBs work well in most PCPs.

      B.B.

  • spike Says:

    Great. Thanks again for the information. Very helpful!!!

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