by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
AirForce Condor SS with Spin-Loc tank. The adjustable buttpad is shown flipped down.
Today, I’ll start testing the new AirForce Condor SS rifle with Spin-Loc tank. I’ve been waiting a long time for this test, because it affords us the opportunity to look at so many new things from AirForce Airguns. Not only will we get to see the new baffled silencer system, we’ll also get another look at the new trigger and safety on which I reported back in January. I linked to that report, above, and labeled it as Part 1 so you can get a better look at the new trigger by reviewing it, though I’ll continue to make comments on the trigger as this report unfolds. We’ll also get a look at the new Spin-Loc tank that allows filling without removing the tank from the gun. There’s a lot of ground to cover, so let’s begin.
The rifle I’m testing is in .22 caliber, which I believe is the best caliber for all AirForce rifles. I won’t give the serial number because this rifle is mine. It’s not going anywhere after this report is completed. Don’t worry — they’ll make more!
What is the Condor SS?
AirForce Airguns is an American manufacturer based in Fort Worth, Texas. They make all the parts of their guns except for the barrels, which they source from Lothar Walther, the air tanks on many of the sporting models and the synthetic parts. Although shrouded barrels are commonplace in 2013, it was AirForce that introduced them to the market back in 2001 with their Talon SS.
In 2004, they started production of the Condor, one of the most powerful smallbore air rifles the world has ever seen, and one that still gets more shots per fill than any of its competition. Generating 65 foot-pounds of energy in .22-caliber, the Condor is a pellet rifle whose muzzle energy equals the standard speed .22 short rimfire cartridge. Only the diabolo design (wasp waist and hollow, flared tail) of the pellets it shoots prevents it from shooting as far as the rimfire. The Condor gave airgunners a rifle with .22 rimfire power and reasonable downrange safety at the same time.
These are all precharged pneumatic (PCP) airguns. Their butt reservoirs are filled to 3,000 psi (nominally — each gun may be a little different) and fired until they fall off the power curve at lower pressure. A Condor will get up to 20 powerful shots on a fill, and a Talon SS will get around 35-40 shots.
Shooters liked the SS for its quiet operation. When it was new, the SS was one of the quietest airguns in town that was also legal to own because it doesn’t have a silencer that can be installed on a firearm. And the Condor that can shoot a pellet through one and a half 2×4 boards delighted folks with power they’d only dreamed about. But the Condor was noisy, and the SS produced only about 25 foot-pounds of muzzle energy in .22 caliber. People wondered why AirForce couldn’t do both things — power without the noise.
Quiet power!
The rifle we’re looking at in this report combines much of the power of the Condor along with the quiet of the SS. In fact, this rifle is even quieter than an SS. It’s as quiet as SS owners wish their guns were.
Spin-Loc tank
And, in response to customer requests, AirForce now offers the Spin-Loc tank that remains attached to the rifle, once installed. It has to, because it sports an onboard pressure gauge — a manometer — that customers also said they wanted. I’ll grant that this gauge is a handy thing since it lets you know the state of the fill the moment you grab the rifle. That’s very convenient when you pick it up after the gun hasn’t been used awhile. There’s no need to guess at the charge — it’s right there on the gauge. It was always easy to count your shots before; but when you set aside the gun for many days, you might not remember where it was in the fill. Of course, you could always top it off before shooting, which is what shooters did before the gauge; but now they don’t have to. The gauge tells them if there’s still enough air.
The Spin-Loc tank has to be installed with tools that come with the rifle. An Allen wrench loosens the single locking screw that allows the threaded bushing in the frame to turn freely. That bushing will join the tank to the frame. Don’t remove the locking screw — just loosen it so the threaded bushing can turn freely. A toothed wrench or spanner that comes with the gun can then turn the bushing to tighten it onto the tank. The tank itself cannot be turned much because neither the pressure gauge nor the male Foster fill nipple will clear the frame. So, the bushing has to be tightened onto the tank’s threads — drawing it onto the frame.
The Spin-Loc tank is installed by tightening the captive bushing with a special wrench that’s supplied with the rifle.
Once installed, the Spin-Loc tank fits tight to the gun’s frame.
I have to say that it took me a couple tries before I got the tank threading straight onto the bushing. It’s a problem of controlling both the gun and the tank, so the tank’s threads do not start cross-threading. Both the bushing and the tank’s threads are steel, though, so the risk of damaging the threads is low. Just work carefully; and once the threads start to join, everything goes together easily.
Reversible buttpad
Once the tank was on the gun, I adjusted the pull length by adjusting where the buttpad clamps to the rear of the tank. I noticed that the buttpad can also be flipped upside down, allowing it to extend lower for more contact with the shoulder, so I did that, too. In the end, I have the rifle set up for a 14-1/2-inch pull, which is ideal for me, and the buttpad is canted inward at the toe, which is how all my AirForce rifles are set up. There are several inches of adjustment with this pad, so fitting an adult shouldn’t be a problem. The picture at the top of this report shows the buttpad reversed like this.
New trigger and safety
I covered the new trigger and safety thoroughly in Part 1, but it’s new so I’ll mention it here. The trigger is 2-stage and not adjustable. I’ll give you the pull weight and critical data in the velocity test, which comes next, but we do know that it’s very crisp and stops after the sear is released.
The biggest difference in this trigger is that it cannot be uncocked. The gun, once cocked, must be fired. Since the Spin-Loc tank cannot be easily removed, the question becomes: Can you release the trigger without opening the valve? As it turns out, you can. Simply move the bolt a little forward so it isn’t pressed against the valve (which is referred to as the top hat), hold it there with your thumb and pull the trigger. Your thumb will catch the striker before it opens the valve very far, limiting the amount of air the gun fires. As convenient as this is, I would only do it with an unloaded (no pellet in the breech) gun that’s pointed in a direction that would be safe to fire. Because if you misjudge where the bolt has to stop, the gun could still fire a pellet.
To uncock the gun, catch the striker with your thumb, as shown above. Point the muzzle in a safe direction when you do this.
18-inch barrel
The Condor SS comes with an 18-inch Lothar Walther barrel in your choice of calibers (from .177 through .25). Naturally, you can change the barrels as with all other AirForce sporting rifles, so you can own all 4 calibers for a fraction of what 4 complete guns would cost.
Ahead of the barrel is the system of baffles that make the SS what it is. I’ll show those in the next report, but there’s something that nobody has mentioned, yet. This rifle will also accept a tank with a standard valve; and if you use one of those, you’ll get twice the number of shots as you get from the Hi-Flo tank that comes standard on the Condor. And because of the 18-inch barrel, the gun will also be more powerful than a stock Talon SS. So, you’ll have great power and lots of shots! This is so intriguing that I’ll test it for you after I complete the full test of this gun as it comes from the factory.
Adjustable power
Like all AirForce sporting rifles, this new one also has adjustable power. We’ll experiment with that when we test the rifle for velocity.
Construction
The Condor SS is made of aluminum, steel and some soft synthetic parts such as the grips and forearm. It has very straight lines, and the buttpad that drops down plus the raised scope rail make it quite easy to adapt to scope use. The accuracy is legendary, and we’ll put that to the test at multiple distances.
I’ve waited a long time to test this gun for you. So, sit back and enjoy this — it’s going to be a long ride.
Since I will not likely be buying one in the foreseeable future it is not a major issue for me, but the inability to uncock that hammer is a big issue for some. I could definitely see getting a spin-lock valve and some new baffles for my SS though.
I am curious as to when they will do something about that pistol grip. The very first thing I did with mine was replace it with an aftermarket one that is SOOOOOO much better.
RR,
Please describe why the aftermarket grip os sooooooo much better.
B.B.
Because it fits the hand so much better. It is wider and better contoured.
http://www.talontunes.com/grips.html
RR,
When you’re right, you’re right. And this time I agree. That is a better-looking grip.
B.B.
Much more comfortable also.
B.B.
How about taking your trigger gauge and comparing the safety release on your Talon SS and Condor to your new Condor SS. I am sure the new safety lever is easier to work in and of itself, but is the actual release lighter?
BB,
Sounds weird, but I’ll do it. The safety on my old SS already releases easily, so don’t expect much.
B.B.
The safety on my TSS is so stiff that if I can’t lighten it up a bit, it has to go.
I have to take my hand off of the grip and push the safety forward with my thumb. I cannot do such with my finger with my hand on the grip. I have a pretty good size paw.
RR,
Well, that isn’t my definition of too hard!
But read the above and maybe it will help.
B.B.
RR….
The safety on my SS was not too bad, but the one on the T would make your finger sore fast. Or your thumb for that matter.
When the T went into auto-fire when the safety was clicked off, I did away with it on both rifles.
I made dummy safety balks to replace the originals to make sure the triggers set properly.
twotalon
RR,
I found that just working the safety in will lighten it. Have you taken it off and on 100 times and seen any difference?
Those safeties are lubricated with a dry film moly and there is some variability in the surface coating — there has to be! The coating is applied with an airbrush and then baked on in a kiln, so you may have one with a minimal finish.
B.B.
As old as this one is, the lube may be worn away. I applied a small amount of moly grease to it a while back and that helped a little. I am going to polish the mating surfaces and reapply another small bit of moly and see what that does.
RR,
The moly doesn’t wear off. It wears in. But not if it isn’t there to begin with. You can’t see the moly on an old part, but it is still there.
Moly grease is anathema to an AirForce action! It attracts and retains dust that will stop the gun at some point. That trigger needs to be absolutely dry to function reliably.
B.B.
B.B.
I will be watching to see how your velocity and shot count come out (hopefully with Kodiaks). I want to see how it compares to my Talondor (18″ with Condor tank).
twotalon
TT,
Yes, it will be interesting. Shot count depends on the power setting, too, and I don’t want to start another lifetime experiment here, so tell me exactly what you want to know, please.
B.B.
B.B.
If you are going to adjust it to run a curve, I would like to know what you get with peak and average velocity through a 30 fps spread. And the resulting shot count. If you want to start with 200 BAR fill, that’s O.K. . I can make allowances for your different start pressure.
We should come out with about the same thing I hope, or be fairly proportional.
I never fooled with the tophat from factory, and fill to 190. PW 5.8. Not that it matters that much since they are all different. My Talondor is running 950 fps av. and 960 peak with a 30 fps spread over 30 shots. Just looking for a rough comparison.
twotalon
TT,
Okay — I can work with that. Thank you.
B.B.
B.B.
Yeah… I don’t want or need an EXACT comparison with the SAME settings. Just something I can relate to.
twotalon
B.B.
How about sticking in a 12″ barrel, stuffing as many baffles in as will fit, then slapping on a Micro tank?
twotalon
TT,
I KNEW someone would ask me that and I have the answer right now. It won’t get any quieter because it CAN’T get any quieter. It’s already down to the sound of the striker. Doesn’t go any lower than that.
You will be able to buy the baffle kit to retrofit to your SS, so you can see for yourself.
B.B.
B.B.
I might have to do that. I love the sound of starlings getting hit in the morning….it sounds like community improvement.
twotalon
BB,
the exact placement of the bushing on the rifle is not clear to me. Is it at the very rear of the breech?
Fred DPRoNJ
Fred,
Your rifle has a bushing, too. It is where the tank screws into the frame. This one is just different, in that it turns when you want it to.
B.B.
Hi BB,
Both you and Mac were missed at Little Rock. Everyone is sad about Mac’s condition as he is a respected and well liked guy.
The most positive thing about the show this year was the number of visitors that attended. There was a big local turnout. Many of them had at least one airgun but a lot of firearm guys showed up. It was easy to show the value of an airgun when you talk with them about the cost and availability of ammo. I walked a few guys through the show showing them different types of guns and took them out to try out airguns. I know that at least two of the guys I took out bought airguns.
I guess the best buy of the show that I was aware of was a 22 cal Edgun Standard that sold for $1400. I also felt I got a good deal on two airguns. I bought a Condor ( my first AirForce!) with an E-Tac canted regulator, gauge, fill fitting, and short shroud extension for $400. I also bought a Paul Watts Long Stroke modified Slavia 630 for $140. Any time you can get a Paul Watts tuned airgun for $140 you have done good. It is sure a sweet shooter.
Charles (chasm on the Yellow) lost interest in airgunning about 10 years ago. He showed up at the show with his collection of about 60 nice air rifles and pistols for sale. A lot of them were tuned, had nice scopes, and high end custom stocks. I think he sold 7 or 8 from his collection plus a large amount of airgun accessories ranging from scopes to pellets to traps, etc.
There were several regular vendors that were not able to attend but I was excited to see a lot of new vendors filling in the space. There was only 1/2 of one table of BB guns, and not as many older vintage C02 pistols as usual but there were a lot more nice springers and PCPs. This made the show more relevant to most airgunners.
I have to say that both my brother Bryan and I both felt that we had enjoyed this show better than any in a long time.
I would like to encourage everyone to try to attend an airgun show. It’s a great opportunity to meet fellow airgunners, see a lot of nice airguns, and have a wonderful weekend.
David Enoch
Thanks for the nice show update.
David,
Yes, thanks for the show info. I wasn’t there because I am tired of traveling, plus I threw my back out while I was at Mac’s, so I’m not getting around too well. Going to miss the NRA Annual Meetings in Houston this week, too.
I’m glad to see firearms shooter finally turning to airguns. They should have done it before, but it does take time to get the word out, I guess. I think I will address this situation in tomorrow’s blog.
Thanks, again,
B.B.
I guess my last line was in very poor taste….please feel free to delete it Edith.I was trying not to cuss in response to missing those amazing deals.I would have walked there from Alabama if I only knew!
Your mention that firearms guy’s are showing more interest in air guns due to the lack of ammunition ,especially RF, is becoming the new normal. I was just at a vendor looking for shotgun shells to replace what I used up at a shoot this weekend and there were none. I know the store clerk well, as his father graduated HS with me, so we chatted for a bit. I mentioned that I was using air rifles for much of my squirrel hunting instead of firearms, and everyone at the counter immediately perked up. In the past most of the fudds would just snicker, or mumble something about how BB guns were for stupid kids…
I’d consider airgunning closer to bow hunting than anything, but in gun form. Especially the springers since some of them take some serious effort to cock. I have a Hatsan 125th that is likely my most powerful springer but after around a dozen shots i don’t want to shoot it any more since I have to put some serious work into firing it. PCP guns aren’t as bad since you only have to really work to fire them when you are filling them up, but still pumping to 3000 psi you need some serious bulk to make it happen. I’m around 219 lbs and around 6′ to 6’5″ depending on which convenience store I’m leaving. I don’t have much problem but my little Philipino buddy can’t get the gun over 2400 psi giving it all he has.
Robert,
That’s interesting and disturbing at the same time. We still have gobs of shotgun shells on the shelves. Still can’t find rimfire or centerfire ammo. I sold several cases of rimfire a week or so ago. Put an ad on armslist and within 24 hours it was gone. Sold an entire case to a dad that told me he and his son had been unable to shoot his son’s new rimfire that he got for Christmas since they’ve been unable to find ammo.
Gave him a brick of old peters for free since I believed his story.
Be interesting to see if a whole new wave of airgunners are hatched from this gun and ammo shortage situation.
kevin
Robert,
Yes, shotshells are getting rarer even here. For a while it was the only thing you could find regularly, but people started shooting shotguns more, because they could not get other ammo or even the supplies to reload it. Now, the shotgun shells are rarer and rarer.
I’ve seen a lot of converts to air rifles, esp. for squirrel hunting and the like. One guy is well into his 70’s, so there is a definite movement that way. I am really all for air rifles when they are appropriate, but I want them to remain A choice, not the ONLY choice :)!
By the way, did you ever see the “traditional” longrifle style air guns made by Dennis Priddy? They reportedly shoot patched round balls (smallish calibers) very well to 50 yards and use reasonable pressures. I think the rifles are a little pricey (compared to a mass market PCP), but you could make the ammo yourself very easily and fairly cheaply. I bet you could even build something like that yourself.
My Condor is the very best air rifle I own. I’ve tricked it out as much as I could. I shrouded the 24″ barrel which brought the noise level down to a talon ss level if I keep the power between 0 and 5. But at full power it still sounds like my marlin model 60 since it rips a pellet down my range at an identical speed in .22.
I’m definitely eyeballing these Condor SS as a good candidate to add to my arsenal. Only problem is that I have to buy mine through an FFL dealer since I’m in Michigan and this gun has a shrouded barrel. Politics at it’s finest. No problem getting a standard condor, but get what is a slightly less powerful but far quieter gun is somehow more dangerous so needs a bit of government oversight.
Yeah, I’m thinking the Condor SS will be a bit less powerful with a shorter barrel and to be quiet you need to dial back the power so it’s sub sonic. I discovered this with my Condor with my custom shroud. Set it on low and all you get is the hammer noise and pellet impact.
John,
Because this is an AirForce rifle, and because they are so adaptable, I’m thinking I will need several parts on velocity. I don’t want to confuse the new reader, so I want to build from the simple to the complex. Your comment alerted me to the need for that.
Thank you!
B.B.
I’ll look forward to it. One thing I found out from past articles is with these kinds of guns barrel size is everything when it comes to getting that pellet up to speed and power. But when you go above a certain speed all the shrouding and baffles you can stuff in the gun won’t matter since that pellet is punching a hole in the universe and making noise of it’s own. So you have to slow that pellet down a bit which means less energy at the target. So it will be slightly less powerful. I don’t want to discourage anybody from this gun with these things since I think this will be one of those guns that’s definitely saving and sacrificing for even if you are like me with gust about every possible airgun configuration there is.
BTW, Any chance you are going to eyeball the Crosman MK-177 soon? That’s another gun I’m looking at buying on Friday. It’s all plastic but I’m excited about that one. I like the look of it.
John,
Probably not soon by your definition. Maybe in a couple months or so.
B.B.
I’ll still be looking for your take on it. By then I’ll have some experience with it as well. It sounds like it has more power than the M4-177. I have the M-417. One of the first ones on the market. I like the gun for indoor target practice but it’s a fairly light hitting gun. I bought it mostly for looks anyway, not function but it did take out a squirrel I needed gone that was destroying my living room window screen by using it like a ladder. So it is a good gun.
Kinda makes me want one of these ugly sons-o-bees…. I like quiet and power at the same time!!
/Dave
I liked the look of the Talon SS when I saw them. I thought they were the coolest gun I had ever seen. Problem is that when I wanted it and had money to get one I had to go through an FFL dealer in michigan and I couldn’t find one that would get it for me. So I elected for a condor. Worked out better since I ended up with a much more powerful and better gun. Then I shrouded the barrel myself and basically made what you now see as the Condor SS but mine is on steroids with a 24″ barrel instead of a 12″ or 18″ barrel. As long as I dial it back a bit so the pellet isn’t breaking the sound barrier all you hear is the hammer and the pellet smacking into the target. But as good as my Condor is, as quiet as it is, I still want the Condor SS. That’s going to be an excellent gun! I’d definitely recommend it to you.
John,
Yeah, to me it’s a cute kind of ugly…. I don’t need it, my new/used s410 will do anything I need done, but (and you know what they say about “but”), being a power addict even after all these years, I think I want one…..!
/Dave
You won’t regret it. This is the Ferrari of guns. Able to put a shot down range 100 yards with all the authority of a .22 rim fire. No recoil and you can change everything about it to suit your needs. Mine is a regular condor with vertical foregrip, shrouded 24″ barrel, high power scope on the tri- rail riser with centerpoint action cam, a bipod, and sling with spin loc tank. I can call my shots 75 yards away and put the shot exactly where I say it is going to go with no recoil and hardly any noise unless I crank the power. It does what I need it to do at the distance I need it to do it, and in the caliber I want it to do it in. Once you get it you won’t want any other gun. I know this from experience. For pests my condor is their worst living nightmare. They can’t escape it once I see them.
There used to only be one deal breaker for me on the airforce guns. That was the lack of air pressure gauge and you had to remove the tank to fill it. Once the spin-loc tank came out I was all over this gun like a cheap suit. Now it’s my go to critter getter ridder of-er. I’m glad i have the gun. I can call my shots at distance and hit it every time. A scope and bipod are almost mandatory gear if you want all the accuracy you can get from the gun. I like a nice vertical foregrip on it as well. For a scope, get the best and most powerful one you can afford. Quality optics count on these guns.
B.B. I have a .22 condor with a 24″ barrel. I want to make a “Shorty”, If I use a 12″ barrel, can I make the baffles fit in the frame and use the cap to have the whole package end at the frame?
SavageSam,
Yes, that should work fine, as long as you use an SS end cap instead of a Condor end cap.
And, for your other question, the Condor SS frame is longer than either the Condor or SS frames, which are identical in length.
B.B.
Let me ask another question please. How does the frame length of the new Condor SS compare to the old Condor?
BB,
From Part 1
“Maybe you can photograph the old Condor and the new Condor SS alongside each other for comparison? Ton”
“I’ll do that when I get the new Condor SS to test. B.B.”
IF you get the time. Hope your back is improving.
john
John,
Ooops! I guess I forgot to do that. Oh. well, there is always Part 3.
B.B.
Tom, off topic & duplicate post. I have two tanks for my Condor (Hi-flow & regular) when I install the Talon tank my velocities barely change at all. I’m guessing it’s because of the extra Condor weight in front of the spring. Short of removing the weight, could I just adjust the top hat lower or do you think it might start smacking the bottom of the top hat? Advice???? I don’t want to remove the Condor weight if I can avoid it. UNLESS, I can go the other direction and remove the weight and OPEN/raise the Condor top hat.
SavageSam,
I answered your question where you posted it the first time — in Part 1.
B.B.
Can you test it With co2? Like velocity useable shots accuracy?
Ryan,
I will give that some thought.
B.B.
I’m wondering about something. I see they are releasing the baffle units for talon ss and condors with 12 inch barrels. I have a frame extender/shroud on my 24″ barrel. Any chance those baffles would fit in my frame extender/barrel shroud with my 24″ barrel? I got my shroud from the bullseye bill web site. It’s fairly thin aluminum.
John,
I have the same shroud and I doubt the baffle kit will fit it. AirForce reams their frames for precision. Bullseye Bill simply uses an aluminum extrusion that can have widely varying dimensions.
I will check it for you if I remember.
B.B.
John,
Thanks for reminding BB on the comparisson photos.
BB,
Are regulators under consideration for these guns by Air Force?
I see PA lists this gun as a 1 on the loudness scale…amazing!
Unfortunately the equally amazing price tag puts it way out of my reach.
I have always wanted one of the Talon SS rifles because of how quiet they where.But I wanted the power of the Condor.Now a Condor SS that’s quieter than a Talon SS with the power(Wow).And for me a big selling point is multiple things besides above.The gage is cool and the Spin Lock tank to me is great(the less you take something apart the longer it will last).Also the Foster fitting works for me because my other guns use that type of fitting also and I have one of the Shoe Box Compressors with one of the 4500psi Benjamin tanks(yes I do have a Hill hand pump also but as much as I shoot I would die pumping up the guns with the hand pump).And as far as cost is concerned $700 dollars sounds a little high.But buy the time I did mods on my Marauders the cost was up there too and there is way more expensive guns out there also.The way it looks is this gun already has all the right stuff.You just need to pick it up and see how good you are.
bb
I read on another forum a month or two ago (cannot remember the forum name) that Airforce had
acquired some LW barrels in .30 caliber for testing on the condor. They using the FX .30 diablos (46.3 grain) and the Daystate Emperors (50.1 grain). This would be awsome if they ever released it for the Condors. Know anything about this?
Thanks,
AJ
AJ,
I don’t know anything about that story. Nice to think they keep working on stuff, though, isn’t it?
Sorry,
B.B.
How did you manage to get one of these?
I’ve had an order (BACK ORDER) with Pyramyd AIR for a month.
They keep pushing out the date & saying “We’ve received no info from Air Force Guns.”
I called Air Force and they say “We ship guns every week (twice a week) to Pyramyd. some shipments have up to 10 Condor SS’s in them, Some have none. I can’t tell you where you are on their order list.”
Any suggestions on how we get REAL information (Truth rather than excuses)?
MS
I don’t know about the truth but if PA pre-sold 100 rifles and you’re number 63 on the list and AirForce is shipping 10 Condor SS per week it might take a few weeks.
Now play with the numbers a bit, let’s say they pre-sold 300 and you’re number 187…
I don’t think PA would mess with the numbers as it wouldn’t be good for business and let’s be honest it would just be too much trouble to start taking some people out of the queue and leave others there, which one do you pick?
This is just my 2 cents.
J-F
If they pre-sold 10, 100, or a thousand then they know where I am on that list! They could give me a definite estimate without changing the story every time I call. In 5 contacts with PA, I’ve been given 5 different answers.
I never asked or expected to get preferential treatment. I just want a reasonable and consistent answer that is realistic in nature.
Wouldn’t it be in their interest to tell me; “You are number xx on our order list. Your new rifle should be available no later than (insert date). We can send you an email every week to advise of any changes in your order status. Would you like to keep this order open or would you prefer something we currently have in stock like (insert available, similar product).”
Being honest with your customer keeps them coming back to you. Lying or making excuses just pushes them away. A happy customer tells an average of 3 friends, an unhappy customer tells an average of 10.
Which one would you pick (as the owner of a business)?
MS,
What I did, along with many people, was order the rifle at the SHOT Show.
AirForce fills their others in the order they receive them and I ordered this directly from them. I had to, if I wanted to test it before half the world had theirs.
B.B.
B.B.,
I figured you did. If I had been able to attend, I would probably have one by now as well.
I am just frustrated that no one at P.A. can give a better answer than “I don’t know”.
I don’t mind waiting in line for service or products, we do that every day. In a bank lobby or a drive-through restaurant you can at least see where you are in the process.
I buy a lot of hobby equipment from a Chinese dealer even though it is usually back ordered for 7-30 days. I could get most of it sooner from dealers in the U.S. Why do I stick with the Chinese dealer you ask? Customer service! They can tell me how much longer it will be and they give regular email updates about my orders. They offer solutions rather than “I don’t know.”
I want to like P.A. and plan to do more business with them! So far they are making it hard to feel like they care about their customers. I could give examples but I am not trying to be overly critical and do not want your readers to think this is an attack on P.A., AirForce, or any other company or individual.
So far this has just been (what I feel is) a minor customer service issue.
Making any suggestions for improvement seems to fall on deaf ears.
Perhaps with time someone at P.A. will read your blog and respond in a positive manner.
Thanks and keep up the reviews. I enjoy reading them!
MS,
Why don’t you try and give Air Force a call? See if they can provide some insight. Obviously, the folks at PA are as much in the dark as you are about delivery times. Just a suggestion – perhaps you’ll get some priority service from AF as a result of your inquiry?
Fred DPRoNJ
Fred,
Please see my first post above. I did contact AF but they had no way to tell me how soon PA would have “my gun”. They were very polite and answered my questions.
Originally I was going to order my gun directly from AF but Pyramyd offered a quicker delivery date and lower price than AF. The lower price was due to the manufacturer not wanting to undercut their dealers which I understand. The quicker delivery date as far as I can tell must have just been optimism on the PA side. Either way, I’ve resigned myself to just waiting a bit longer to see what happens. If I don’t hear from AF or PA in a reasonable amount of time I may have to reconsider just how much I really want one of these guns.
Everyone seems to give them great reviews but you can’t shoot a squirrel with a review! 😉
You’re right – I should have read a bit more and reviewed the thread before offering any advise. Sorry.
Fred DPRoNJ
MS,
When Pyramyd Air’s purchasing department places an order, they ask for an anticipated ship date. Then, they estimate the delivery time to the warehouse.
As the in-stock date approaches, the vendor gets a call from Pyramyd AIR to find out if the delivery will ship on time. If not, they ask for a new ship date.
This goes back and forth until the product arrives. I don’t think you can give Pyramyd AIR or any retailer any grief for changing their in-stock dates. They’re simply basing those dates on what the vendor has told them. The supplier provides 100% of the information about production, shipping, etc. The retailer has no control over the date changes.
Edith
Edith,
Thank you for that information. This is more than Pyramyd offered.
Perhaps if PA offered that explanation, I wouldn’t have to call every week to ask.
If they offered to just keep customers “in-the-loop” by proactively sending email updates, the customer would feel better informed and less likely to take his/her $800-$1000 somewhere else.
This thread is turning into a big deal about PA customer service rather than the gun itself.
My apologies to B.B. Pelletier as that was not my intention.
Let’s let B.B. get back to just telling us more about the gun.
Thank you all for the replies. I am better informed now than I was a few hours ago.
This makes me consider an Airforce gun again, so I thought I would pose the reason why I have been holding off on getting one in the past. Would love to hear the group’s thought on it.
I was told that due to the little amount of aluminum that holds the gun frame together (especially by the loading port) it is prone to twisting and tweaking so that the zero point changes over time and/or when you shoulder it tightly.
Anyone have any experience with this? I know many people swear by this airgun and I would love to add it to my collection if it’s a true keeper.
I bought a Condor SS and at 2500 psi I fired some zeroing rds and it made a quiet tink sound as it sent the pellet down range. But, pumped it up to 3000 psi and fired another shot the next day and it sounded like a .22 long rifle going off. Thought it was cause it was set at 9, so I changed it to 6 and fired it once this morning and same thing. Loud! What’s up with that?
Randy,
What are you asking?
B.B.
I’m a new Air Force owner an extremely pleased with my condor. I am also a retired weapons and tactics instructor and regrettably a retired center fire and I guess rimfire competitor. Back problems prevent me from bring able to travel or spend time on the range.I had my fully shrouded Condor for about a month when my better half advised me that she wanted a Condor SS.I will try to send some pictures once we finally get the backyard range completed. We have about enough room to shoot 30 yards. We now shoot side by side and compete with each other mini-sniping animal crackers, sugar cubes and 9mm cases. Both rifles are set up with co2 conversions and are true hush puppies. The pellet strike on the electrical clay backstop makes more noise than the rifles. The co2 conversion is the perfect solution for some one who wants an Airforce rifle but doesn’t feel able to do the pump or just cant face the $600 bite for high pressure air.
Co2 is temp variable but we live in Arizona so we just fire a couple of sighter rounds before the serious shooting begins. I haven’t counted yet but we get around 250 to 300 rounds from 12oz bottles which we get refilled at the local paintball store for about $3 per fill. Will send some photos when we get completely set up.
I hope this helps anyone considering a Airforce rifle but is put of by the cost of pcp.
John,
Welcome to the blog.
Please join us on the current blog, where you can post any comment about airguns:
/blog//
B.B.