Walther’s new LGV Master Ultra .177 air rifle: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Walther LGV Master Ultra 177 air rifle
The LGV Master Ultra with a wood stock is what readers have been asking to see.

I didn’t get picked for jury duty, yesterday! Yay!

Today, I’m going to make a lot of friends because I’m starting a review of the new Walther LGV Master Ultra air rifle in .177 caliber. If you just tuned in, there are 6 reports of the Walther LGV Challenger in .22 caliber already on this blog. That one was so fine that I couldn’t send it back to the importer, so I can’t wait to see its .177 cousin. Many of you also wanted to see the gun in wood — so here you go!

Blog reader Kevin asked me what the difference was between the Ultra models and others that aren’t Ultras. I thought it was just the shape of the muzzlebrake; but now that I have an Ultra to examine, I know what it is. The Ultra has conventional open sights without the fiberoptics! Hurray! The front sight accepts inserts, and the rear sight is an adjustable notch with crisp clicks between each step. The post and notch have sharp corners, and there’s plenty of light around the post in the rear notch. Sighting should be very easy. We shall see.

Walther LGV Master Ultra 177 air rifle front sight
Front sight accepts removable inserts. I don’t know how many inserts will come with the rifle, but I’m checking into it.

Walther LGV Master Ultra 177 air rifle rear sight
The LGV Master rear sight is clean and crisp — just what you want!

First impressions
This rifle has a wood stock, so naturally that’s the first big difference I see between it and the LGV Challenger I’ve already tested. Many readers were interested in the wood stock — this will be our chance to test one. No, it doesn’t have an adjustable cheekpiece, but we don’t need to test every feature, do we. Adjustable cheekpieces allow you to adapt the gun to fit many more shooters, and I don’t think they have any downside, unless you just don’t like the look.

Of course, this rifle (serial number BJ002873) is in .177 caliber, so that’ll be a completely different experience, although the barreled actions of the two airguns look the same. Yes, the muzzlebrake on this one is larger and shaped differently, but it isn’t a thing you notice when you hold the gun.

The wood is beech and stained an even medium brown. You can see the grain in the wood, which is often hidden on wood stocks these days. The pistol grip has panels of what looks like laser-cut checkering on both sides. The forearm is smooth. The stock is entirely ambidextrous, with a center-mounted automatic safety switch that doesn’t favor one side over the other.

The pull (distance from the end of the butt to the trigger) is a manly 14-3/4-inches, which is 1/4-inch longer than the pull on the LGV Challenger. And the rifle’s overall length is also 1/4-inch longer, at 43-1/4 inches overall. I know the LGV Challenger specs say it’s 43.1 inches overall, but mine measures exactly 43 inches. Maybe it’s the way I’m measuring it.

What you notice with the Master Ultra is the weight. Where the Challenger weighs 8.5 lbs., the Master Ultra I’m testing weighs a full pound more. Most of that weight is in the wood stock, of course, but the smaller caliber and larger muzzlebrake do contribute something.

Like all the LGVs, the Master has the same barrel latch that must be released before cocking. It keeps the barrel locked rigidly shut when firing, and it goes all the way back to the LGV target rifles of many decades ago.

The muzzlebrake is threaded on this model as it was on the .22 I tested earlier. A knurled cap protects the threads of the aluminum brake until you need them. U.S. shooters probably won’t use them much at all because silencers that screw onto a gun are controlled in this country. And the thread pattern is 1/2″ X 20 threads per inch (tpi), which is standard for UK silencers. American silencers are usually 1/2″ X 28 tpi. But a spring-piston gun doesn’t make enough noise at the muzzle to need silencing, so we won’t lament the fact that they’ll be hard to fit. Most of its noise is made in the spring tube, and that can’t be silenced.

Trigger
The two-stage trigger is adjustable; and from what I can see so far, it looks to be the same trigger I tested on the LGV Challenger. The specs say it releases at 3 lbs., but it feels lighter than that to me. As with the first rifle, the trigger on this sample feels as good as it can get, so I don’t think I’ll try to adjust it.

Cocking
I remarked on this before, but it deserves to be repeated. The LGV is so positive when cocked that it feels like a bank vault. Thumbing the barrel latch up releases the barrel for cocking, then pull straight down on the muzzle end until the sear catches. The piston stroke is very short, so the barrel barely gets to 90 degrees and the rifle is cocked. When you close the barrel again, the latch clicks shut positively, giving you the feeling of a solid action. The barrel doesn’t move to either side when it’s being cocked or returned to rest, and the whole experience conveys a high build quality.

So far
I think I like the way the lighter synthetic-stocked rifle hangs in my hands better than this wood-stocked one, but time will tell. Obviously, I need to shoot this one before I make that pronouncement.

I can’t wait to see how this .177 does at distance. I’ve already fired the rifle, and there’s not a nickel’s worth of difference to the feel.

And there isn’t much more to report because this one is so much like the first one, except as noted. Velocity comes next.

68 Responses to “Walther’s new LGV Master Ultra .177 air rifle: Part 1”

  • chris in ct Says:

    Looking good in wood, worth the extra $150 bucks.I also like it better without the muzzle break.I hope PA gets some of those also.But my luck they will only choose to carry only the two you are testing.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      chris in ct,

      PA will cary all the models that Umarex USA imports. The reason I’m testing this one is it is another sample that Umarex USA had on hand from SHOT.

      I think at this time the only model they won’t import is the super-powerful one. I think they may have discovered that all that power destroys the marvelous feel the rifle has when operating, and they don’t like what they see. But that’s only my guess.

      B.B.

      • John Says:

        Good luck, Walther.
        12FPE may sell well in the UK, but it won’t sell at that price here in the USA. Not at that price. It seems odd to me that even at the 23J level, they don’t intend to bring it in 22??

        I suppose you could argue having to buy a TX/97k and then an aftermarket spring to go down to those power levels and you’d be in the same ballpark.

        In addition to the already offered power levels, I wouldn’t mind if they offered both a 15FPE version as well as the 17FPE version that you state won’t be available here. Then if you want a 15FPE gun you can compare it with the AA or Weihrauch. And if you wanted the high power gun you could compare it to the R1, 350, etc.

        I understand you find this to be a great power plant but to try and compare apples to apples, how about breaking out a 12FPE TX/97k/R9 to compare the LGV to? Well known kits are available. I have a hard time accepting how good the LGV is, when it’s set up as a softer gun than the US versions of the mid power “stand bys.”

  • chris in ct Says:

    The the one I was trying to describe is called LGV Master.Reminds me of HW rifles.

  • chris in ct Says:

    Oh I see it.PA does have it thats the one Im getting in 22.

    • chuckj Says:

      chris in ct,
      My very deepest condolences and empathy for you and your new proposed gun laws. We can only hope your legislators are rational, sane and possess common sense. Well, lots o luck there.
      -Chuckj

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    They really don’t want logical, intelligent people with critical thinking skills on jurys. It just bogs down the whole process. Don’t feel too bad. ;-)

    Now here’s a Walther LGV I can sink my teeth into. Wood stock and open sights instead of cheesy “fiber optics.” This gun has my attention. Wait a second, is that muzzle break really as ugly as it looks from here? Wait a minute, $100 more than an AA TX200?! There might be a monkey wrench in the works here.

    • Pete in The Caribbean Says:

      TRy this one. Pretend to be sleeping; then when your name is called jump up and shout, Guilty!
      I am sure they will disqualify you and take you off the list.

      Pete

      • Pete in the Caribbean,

        What will work is taking Ann Coulter’s book, “Guilty”—or any book by Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity. Tom took a book about guns. Several of the other jurors wore t-shirts with gun images on them, so a gun book isn’t going to work.

        However, the case Tom was considered for was civil, not criminal. Not sure if the usual tricks will work for those.

        Edith

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Slinging Lead,

      Oh, believe me, I don’t feel bad for not being picked! I do feel it is my civic duty to go when called, but I guess when they interviewed me, some of the lawyers (there were 6 in the room) didn’t like what they saw. That is fine with me, because that is what they would have gotten, had I been selected.

      B.B.

      • chuckj Says:

        Tom,
        What are the consequences of acting stupid and naive during selection but then having your true self discovered as intelligent and informed during deliberations. Wouldn’t you think that deception would serve justice better rather than having actual stupid and naive people on the jury?
        -Chuckj

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          chuckj,

          I was just telling Edith this morning that of the 42 people they polled for the jury, I didn’t see one that I would label as stupid. Most surprising was the response I heard from the women in the room. This was a civil case involving alleged assault, and every woman in the room said she believed that a person had the right to defend themselves — violently if necessary.

          They also said if a plaintiff was claiming damages, they wanted to see the medical reports. Two of them challenged the plaintiff’s lawyers who claimed that pain is subjective. They both said that is isn’t and one of them cited neurological testing that puts pain onto an objective scale. That shut the lawyers up quick.

          I was proud to be part of that group.

          B.B.

  • Victor Says:

    B.B.,

    is the front sight compatible with Anschutz inserts?

    Victor

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Victor,

      I don’t know. How about I check on that and put it into the next report?

      B.B.

      • Victor Says:

        B.B.,

        That sounds good. The next question is, if you have an aperture insert for the front sight, would it work with a rear peep sight?

        Victor

  • Titus Groan Says:

    Hello B.B. and fellow airgun aficionados. Now this is the picture I would choose to show an alien, when and if one ever arrives at my front door, and asks to see what turns my human crank. Although I like everything about this rifle, I am with Chris in ct. I prefer the barrel and front sight sans muzzle break. My opinion is based purely on aesthetics mind you. I’m sure the added weight of the muzzle break, stabilizes the rifle when you shoot, giving the shooter a positive follow through. I find the steel shroud on my HW98 achieves this same effect. Just an aside, I think the Weihrauch HW98 (Beeman R11), and this Walther LGV Master Ultra, would make an interesting side by side comparison test. I’m glad Walther chose to use a classic design to put their all new piston and air baffle system in. They could have gone the way of Gamo and others, and given us a modern high tech stock, filled with lines and sharp angles. Instead, they have given the buyer a choice of three stocks. Two wooden, and the more modern synthetic stocked base model. Aside from the fibre optic sights on two of the three models, there is nothing that tells you these airguns are a huge leap in spring gun technology.
    If it isn’t already apparent, I am a big, big fan of these new Walther’s. I think the results of this test are a given. It will be a superior break barrel, just as B.B. proved with it’s .22 cal stable mate. For Walther to favour us with an all new sporting spring gun with cutting edge technology, gets my mind to wondering. Can there be a new Feinwerkbau spring powered sporter far off? It may be conjecture and wishful thinking on my part, but I truly think if this gun sells as well as I know it will, the other makers of Olympic target airguns will have to sit up and take notice. Show us what they are still capable of. A quote has been given a Chinese philosopher (a little help here, Matt61), “may you live in interesting times”. I think we are on the cusp of these interesting times. And I can’t wait to see how they pan out.
    Caio Titus

    • Matt61 Says:

      That big muzzle break is supposed to help the cocking process as shown in other reports.

      I’m afraid that I can’t help you with the source of the quote although I’ve heard it many times. But I never let a missing source hold me back from a quote. :-) Librarians shudder at being asked to identify quotes. They’re the hardest questions.

      Matt61

    • chuckj Says:

      Titus,
      Coming from my amateurish experience, do you really think competition shooters would switch from PCP to spring now that they have gone to the dark side? I could see another class of competition being suggested but not a conversion. There was a very real reason to switch from spring to PCP but I don’t see any compelling reason to switch back even after the phenomenal results of the LGV. Begs the question – will the most accurate spring rifle ever be MORE accurate than the most accurate PCP (price being no object)?
      -Chuckj

      • Titus Groan Says:

        Hi chuckj. I wouldn’t think an Olympic shooter would switch from pcp, back to spring piston shooting. Pcp’s have proven to be superior in accuracy to spring piston, for a long time. No, I was thinking more in terms of sales to a large part of the airgun market that doesn’t shoot 10 meter target. If, and that is the question, the other companies see the Walther LGV doing as well in the North and South American market, as it has in Great Britain, then just maybe they would include a springer of their own, to compete for market share. In my blog response, you might say I was just spit balling an idea. There are a lot of planets that need to line up before any company would come out with a new gun. What made me think about the possibilities in the first place, was why did Walther choose to bring this spring gun out in the first place? They must have a good idea of expected market share and profit, to place so much research and development into an all new line of air rifle. Feinwerbau has made a few fine sporter style springer’s in the past. They might just need to show the world what they can still offer the spring gun world. After all, we can never have too many great airguns.
        Caio Titus

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    Now if Crosman could just figure out how to make a decent sproinger at a decent price and quit chasing terminal velocity.

    I am with Slinging Lead on this. A TX200 with a walnut stock would be my choice. Or more likely I would get an original LGV or FWB300 or some such.

    The exorbitant labor costs, taxes and shipping from Europe will greatly hinder the sale of this rifle, especially since most of the ignorant masses are chasing the speed of light along with Crosman, etc.

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    And then to show you just how screwed up German thinking is, the Competition Ultra has fiber optic sights. How in the world could you invest so much into quality craftsmanship and then throw trash like that on top? No wonder they keep losing.

    • Joe Says:

      At such a high retail price, I thought Walther would have adjustable cheek piece and adj butt plate on the stock, along with peep sight in the rear.

    • Matt61 Says:

      Who keeps losing? The Germans? I thought they dominated the target rifle market.

      Matt61

      • Ridgerunner Says:

        Do you know why? That is all they are allowed to own. They cannot chase after speed so they chase after precision.

        • Marc Says:

          It’s a damn old Subject but some Things need to get straightened out here… First of all it’s wrong that we Germans may not own Guns. You just need to have a Hunting License or a Sport Shooters License. If you’re not participating at Competitions you may only get 3 Semi Auto Long Guns and 2 Hand Guns. No Full Autos for any Civilian, except Manufacturer and very rarely on Collectors License. Repeaters and Single Shots, no Limit for Sport Shooters. No limit on Long Guns, wether Semis nor Repeaters for Hunters, but only 2 Handguns on a Hunting License. Standard Airguns you can get without any License, up to 5FPE/7,5J Muzzle Energy as long as you’re at least 18 Years old. Everything above 7,5J is considered a Firearm and needs to be put on your License. No License=No Gun above 7,5J- We (most of the Germans anyway) hate those Fiber Optic Sights to. But we keep getting told that this is what the International Market (read: US Market) demands. Hell, if the USA doesn’t want it either, who does?

          • Marc,

            Hi, and welcome to the blog! I hope we will see you here from now on.

            Don’t get too excited over what some of the readers say. They aren’t necessarily on top of all the laws and regulations around the world. When I was in Germany in the 1970s (with the U.S. Army), I knew many Germans who owned plenty of firearms. Of course they were all hunters, as was I at that time. And in Germany, the hunting season remains open for roe deer from May 15 through December 31.

            We have nothing like that here in the U.S. Of course we are currently overrun with wild hogs that have escaped from captivity and have gone wild very quickly. They are so numerous that there is no season or limits on them at all! Here in Texas, they are considered pests.

            Anyway, please become a regular contributor to this blog.

            B.B.

            • Marc Says:

              Tom, thanks for the Welcome. No Problem with People not being up to Date with German Gun Laws. I’m not up to Date with most American State Laws either :-D Things changed in the 1970′s in Germany dramatically because all of this Red Army Fraction-Crap. We basically gave up our “Right” to own Firearms and it became a Privilege. As for Walther/Umarex… They’re heading their Way on the “Fun Gun” Market and they’re quit successful. Except for Diana and Weihrauch, there’s currently no other German Manufacturer of Break Barrel Airguns that I’m aware of. Guns aren’t very popular here these Days, even if they’re just Airguns. You may not even shot them on Public Land (Bad Idea, really!) or in your own Garden if the “Projectile may leave your Property”. Have been reading your Blog for a While now and have been a Fan for a long time!

      • Victor Says:

        Matt61,

        Ridgerunner is exactly right. Gun laws are very strict in Germany. On the other hand, airgun and small-bore shooting is very popular there. So there’s is a culture that places a high premium on precision, as opposed to POWER, as is the case here.

        Americans want to be able to penetrate large appliances, or claim to be able to down a large animal with their airguns. Of course, that they need a target to be large isn’t important.

        Victor

  • Carel Says:

    I do not want this gun. I do not want this gun….
    Oh…. who am I kidding anyway….

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Carel,

      Relax. When I count to three you will awaken and feel refreshed. But when you hear a car horn you will bark like a chicken.

      B.B.

    • chuckj Says:

      Oops! I think Carel breathed in the same radioactive pellet dust the rest of us have. He’s ready to be inducted into the League of Super Airgunners.
      -Chuckj

  • Wulfraed Says:

    For those with aging eyes…

    Does it look like it may have enough clearance to remove the open rear sight and fit a receiver micrometer peep?

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Wulfraed,

      Interesting. For you I will test it and see. I hope it has Anschutz inserts!

      B.B.

      • Wulfraed Says:

        Don’t go out of your way just for me…

        But given that nice front sight, a peep rear seems an obvious fit…

  • chasblock Says:

    Darn you B.B.! I don’t need another gun!!! I don’t! I don’t!…. well, ok—maybe…

    Thanks for getting to this gun so quickly.

    Now about jury duty. I got called last October. We go for a month. Usually just one day a week for four weeks. But I easily got out of sitting on a jury, though I did have to show up each day that my number was called. It seems that defense attorneys don’t like retired police officers for some reason or another. Plus knowing most of the assistant states attorneys, as well as the judges, as well as most of the police officers who were bringing the defendants to trial…. The problem is, I would have loved to sit on a jury; and I think I could have been fair and impartial…sort of.. :D

  • TC Says:

    BB,
    I’m looking forward to additional results and feedback on the LGV. Until the LGV arrived, the TX200 has been #1 on my list. Accuracy, no hold sensitivity and usage simplicity of a springer are important to me. Really like the benefits of the fixed TX200 barrel, but not a fan in loading it. The LGV looks like the new benchmark king in break barrels. Can you remove the open sights on the LGV Ultra?

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      TC,

      I just looked and yes, both sights can be removed. Since there has been so much interest in that subject, I guess I will remove them both when I mount a scope.

      B.B.

  • Jim H. Says:

    A follow up question to TCs comment about loading the TX200. If you have clumsy fingers and a confined loading ramp, do those pellet pens work to make it easier to load the pellet? It doesn’t look like they would work without an articulating tip of some kind. Regards, Jim H.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Jim H.,

      That’s a good question. The answer is no, the pellet pens do not help loading of guns that have sliding compression chambers like the TX 200. The pellet pens only work when there is a straight path to the breech, such as with a breakbarrel gun. When the path is not straight, they can’t align with the breech and don’t work.

      B.B.

      • Matt61 Says:

        How about a bent device like an appropriately sized Allen wrench?

        Matt61

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Matt,

          A bent device is what is needed. I was just addressing the pellet pens as they exist now.

          B.B.

          • Wulfraed Says:

            How about something similar to the rods used for percussion caps — add a plunger at the tip since, unlike caps which go over a protruding nipple the pellet has to go into an opening…

            • David H Says:

              Actually, the ball end of the Beeman Pell Seat will work on both sliding compression chamber and rotary chamber underlevers. I have both kinds and once you get the pellet started in the breach you can put the Pell Seat in at and angle and use the ball end to press the the pellet into the rifling. I purchased my Pell Seat from PA, but I don’t see it in their inventory now.

              David H

  • Matt61 Says:

    I see that this rifle is comparable to the other one in price too. Those Germans know how to drive a bargain.

    Desertdweller, very amusing about the tigers in tuxedos. But nothing could beat the look of my tigers leaping through the grass in their natural glossy coats. The pigs will give them a chance to do that too. The ones I’ve seen on video move like torpedos. Speaking of livery, I see that your cat is a pretty good size. Have you seen the video of the cat in the life vest swimming in a pool? It’s 18 pounds and trying to lose weight. And it does like kind of odd once it’s life vest is taken off and it is standing there soaking wet. The video was quite a sensation and the news anchor reporter could hardly control her laughter. I think more than the life vest it was the cat’s enormous eyes while swimming that got her.

    Okay, I’ve run the numbers on B.B.’s April Fools gun. Shooting a .357 caliber projectile of 125 grains at 950 fps will require 83.5 pounds of cocking force. Kinetic energy equals torque times angular distance of the cocking stroke and an online calculator fixes all the units. So, with Vince’s multi-pump design that’s only four strokes at the advertised cocking force of 20 pounds. Or, perhaps you can design some bracket you can mount on the wall and hang your body weight on the cocking lever. Or perhaps you can design an electrically powered cocking device or maybe slave the cocking action to some other source of powerful angular motion around the house.

    john, well you are a resourceful guy for sure and no law is going to stop you. If you’ve got an MOA AK, you should publish an article. That seems to be a very popular topic right now and MOA is something of a holy grail for this design. You’re the man to help me with another question. How come everyone works the charging handle on the right side of the AK with the left hand? It drives me nuts to see their contortions. Right handed shooters work bolt-actions with the right hand. You work the charging handle on the Garand with the right hand; the left hand would look absurd. So, why the gymnastics with the AK with its near identical set-up? I have my suspicions. One culprit is the ergonomics of the pistol grip design which say that your right hand should stay on the pistol grip for rapid reaction. But, this to me just shows how limited is our concept of ergonomic when your hand must remain enmeshed in the pistol grip for the sake of whatever advantages you’re supposed to gain. The second culprit would be the AR design where people have gotten used to working the charging handle with the left hand while keeping their right hand in place. But that’s a different design (not without critics of the charging handle), so I don’t see why they should force that on the AK. I don’t get it.

    Wulfraed, you’re the guy to help me with a pistol question. I’m not getting the ejector on my 686. In contrast, the ejector on my Ruger Single Six is perfectly simple: a rod that pokes out the case. On the 686, the ejector seems to have no interaction at all with the cases; it doesn’t touch them. So, why is it there? And to confound things further, when you work the ejector, it does seem to pull all the cases out together without actually touching them. How can this be!? By the way, did I read that you are employed again? No reason for a man of your talents not to be in the workforce.

    Matt61

    • JTinAL Says:

      Hi Matt,
      As you look closer you can see that the ejector of the 686 works on the
      rim of the cases.When you load the cylinder ~1/4 to 1/3 of the rim actually sits on the ejector.
      If you push the ejector rod without any rounds in the cylinder you’ll see a nice odd star or
      snowflake shaped unit come up from the cylinder.I love the way these look and function,I also
      love the precision of fitting them that has them seated flush but still has the *gears* that rotate
      the cylinder standing proud :)
      Most people don’t realize it but in my opinion a revolver is much more complicated internally
      than a semi auto.There is a lot of precision involved with timing,lockup and alignment of cylinder to bore.The alignment of pins and springs (trigger and hammer) and cylinder lock is much more complicated than with a pistol.
      I’ll stop now lol I could ramble on and on about my favorite type of sidearm.

    • Desertdweller Says:

      Matt,

      My cat Pender is a little over 20lbs. For some reason I don’t understand, cats with tuxedo markings tend to be larger than most other cats. He outweighs my dog and my other cat (individually).

      He is not fond of getting wet.

      Tigers have excellent camo for hiding in the grass. I understand they like being in water.

      I have seen the video of the swimming cat. I used to have a Siamese cat who loved to be in water.

      Les

  • john Says:

    I guess you just have to be a fan of these guns to appreciate what I consider an overpriced gun that would be completely lost in my collection and likely never shot. For the same price I’d be much more interested in that new Condor SS that just came out. I’ve been eyeballing that and trying to devise a way to get one of those in Michigan. They are a bit hard to get since it has a shrouded barrel and baffles. Pyramyd Air is only a few hours away from me but since I do not have a car it might as well be on another planet. It might take me a while to figure out the logistics on this one.

    • Fred DPRoNJ Says:

      It’s called Enterprise. But it will add to the cost of the Talon.

      Fred DPRoNJ

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      John,

      I will be testing a Condor SS as soon as I can get one, which shouldn’t be too long. But one gun doesn’t have to excel at the expense of another. For a breakbarrel sporting rifle I still maintain the new LGV is the best I have ever seen.

      B.B.

      • john Says:

        That’s great for those that want another break barrel springer. I’m sure some will be over the moon happy with it. But in my stable it would go in a rack and likely get completely lost and remain in new unfired condition along with 100 or more guns that all look similar, function similar, and have similar purposes. I have an entire barn I converted into a nice armory which houses my collection. Everything is sitting in racks and there are several rooms filled with guns, ammo, parts, cleaning supplies, accessories. In something like that I need to be a bit more selective and pick my guns based on function as well as appearance. In my armory this gun would go in a rack and be very lost like the Arc of the Covenant at the end of Raiders of the Lost Arc. So I have to be very discriminating in what guns I buy at this point. They have to be innovative, unusual, powerful, and stand out in a world where just about everybody looks like everybody else. In that respect, Airforce guns are going to be king of the armory. I got my condor all dressed up and pretty and fairly quiet. Now I’m looking at the Condor SS to compliment the king of my nest and maybe even “one up” it as far as doing the job quietly.

        Changing pace a bit, This month I begin an AR15 experiment as far as building one. I expect I’ll be telling more about this as I know if my build succeeds or fails, but I’m looking at all new ways to get or make build parts. I hope I can at some point give you some interesting ideas and maybe even a few parts to test out for your blog.

  • GunsmithHunter Says:

    B.B.

    It is true when you states that the thread pattern 1/2″ X 20 threads per inch (tpi) is standard for UK silencers, but that is not the whole truth. This thread pattern for both air and rimfire guns is also standard in all of Europe (which also includes UK).

    Eddie

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Eddie,

      I am not that familiar with the rest of Europe and how their silencers fit. All I know about for sure are the UK guns.

      Thanks for the information,

      B.B.

      • GunsmithHunter Says:

        Silencers on air guns and rimfire guns are just as normal here in Northern Europe as rifle scopes. Silencers are considered as an important part of the hunting equipment. The police advice us to use silencers so we do not disturb the public. In some areas, the land owner will not let you hunt or shot unless you are using a silencer so that the cattle is not disturbed nor his family when asleep.

        99 % of the PCPs and 95 % of the rimfire guns (.22LR and .17 HMR) are sold with silencers here in Norway.

        I silenced my very first rifle I made as a gunsmith in 1993, and many hunters asked me if I was a poacher. Last year 60 – 70 % of the big game hunters showed up with their silenced rifles when they did their annually shooting test. It feels good that the “silenced rifle poacher-myth” finally is dead.

        Sako, Tikka and even Ruger (export only) now offers pre-threaded rifles.

        Eddie
        Gunsmith

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Eddie,

          Interestingly enough, my state of Texas just passed a law to make it legal to hunt game with a silenced firearm.

          B.B.

          • GunsmithHunter Says:

            B.B.
            It is nice to hear that Texas is moving forward when it comes to silencers.

            I have hunted with silencers in Norway since 1988. It is very comfortable to put my “hearing protection” on the muzzle of a gun instead of hearing protection on my ears.

            Some advantages:
            - You feel closer to the nature since you do not need hearing protection
            - Reduced recoil – a .30-06 feels like a .223.
            - Most shooters experience improved accuracy, especially with big bore calibers
            - It is more comfortable to shoot
            - You do not disturb game, cattle or neighbors
            - The police get less phone calls in the hunting season from worried neighbors who has heard a shot in the forest.

            Silencers work best on rimfire rifles and pistols. Caliber .22 LR is perfect if you stay subsonic. Silencers also works on shotguns and revolvers, but it is less efficient.

            Eddie

        • J-F Says:

          I’m jealous! Here (Canada) silencers are considered prohibited firearms as in the silencers alone, not attached to a firearm, is considered a prohibited firearm. No tax stamp or permit can get you one.
          Shrouded barrels are also prohibited.
          We suck big time on everything gun. Airsoft, airgun or firearm.

          J-F

          • GunsmithHunter Says:

            J-F

            It is a big disbelief among politicians and some police officers that a silencer makes a gun completely silent, and that alone would make it perfect for criminal activity. That is so far from the truth.

            I can hear a shot far away fired with a silenced hunting rifle (.308 W) in the woods, even when I am indoors. The muzzle blast is reduced with about 30 dB from 130 db to about 100 dB. The bullet is also going supersonic, and that noise is impossible to silence.

            Even a silenced .22 LR makes a some noise, especially when the bullet hits game, water or rocks.
            I can also hear the firing of a silenced .22 LR if it is within 200 yards and it is not too much background noise (traffic, heavy work). I recognize that sound, even if it is weak. A person that is not familiar with shooting will not associate it with “silenced gun fire” and will not hear it.

            About 99,997 % of private guns are used for legal activity. A ban in Canada on these kind of environment friendly items seems way too much. Just have a look on all the advantages that I wrote to B.B. above.

            Eddie
            Gunsmith

            • J-F Says:

              Hey you don’t have to convince me!
              I’m all in favor of silencers.
              These laws are brought up by people who sadly don’t know a thing of what they’re talking about and they’ll never seek the advice of people who do know because they know everything!

              J-F

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    I think I’ve gone over the edge — I actually prefer “plastic” stocks now for modern stuff, although I still favor a traditional profile (i.e., not thumbhole or skeleton), but if I was going for one like this one that could very well be “the ultimate”, wood might tempt me. Mainly, I’m interested to see if this one is in the same class of shooter as the other one. Even clunks are extremely good/accurate shooters sometimes, but I think part of what this one is selling is consistent quality. I am cheap, but if a docile, accurate b-barrel is 99% certain out of the box, it may very well be worth it’s price.

    I’m losing my religion on fiberoptics also — they can be quite nice, esp. when one hits the middle age changes in eyesight, but the “real” sights on this one do look nice. Is there a synthetic variant with these sights?

  • Victor Says:

    B.B.,

    I’ve owned several rifles with adjustable cheep pieces and never adjusted them from the lowest position. While I won’t knock them, I wouldn’t miss it. In truth, when I really felt that I needed adjustments, the solution came by way of ring height. But that’s just me.

    Victor

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