Walther LGV Olympia field test: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Walther LGV Olympia
Walther LGV Olympia was a top-quality 10 meter target rifle from the 1970s.

Don’t get confused. The title of this blog is the Walther LGV Olympia field test, but the first part was titled, We interrupt our regular program….I used that title so I wouldn’t give away the topic that first day. This report is, indeed, about the Walther LGV Olympia of history, but this is a new take on it. I already reported on it two and a half years ago, but that report was about the rifle as a vintage 10-meter target rifle, which at that time was all the LGV had ever been. Only in 2012, when Walther brought out their new line of sporting rifles under the LGV model name, was the LGV anything except a breakbarrel target rifle.

We’ve now looked at the .177-caliber Walther LGV Master Ultra rifle and also at the .22-caliber LGV Challenger (which┬áI now own), so I thought it might be nice to see how the original LGV stacks up to these new rifles. This test will look at the vintage LGV Olympia at 25 yards and at 50 yards. At both distances, I’ll use the rifle’s target sights. I mentioned last time that when I tested the FWB 300S at 50 yards, it didn’t seem to matter that much whether target sights or a scope was used, so I see no need to switch the sights on this rifle.

One thing I have learned in the two and a half years since testing the LGV target rifle is how deep-seating the pellet often has a dramatic affect on accuracy. We have seen that with other airguns, but this will be the first time I think I’ve tested it on a vintage target rifle. This should be an interesting test. And, because the LGV is a breakbarrel, it plays right into the test plan, because breakbarrels are the easiest type of guns in which to seat the pellets deep.

Naturally, I’ll use the Air Venturi Pellet Pen and PellSet seater to seat the pellets. It’s so easy; because once you set the optimum seating depth, it never changes until you change it. If you don’t have a tool, you can seat pellets with a ballpoint pen…but the seating depth is not adjustable.

Today, we’re just going to see how well the rifle performs with some sample pellets that might get chosen for the 25-yard test. I’ll test the velocity of all pellets both seated flush with the end of the barrel and also seated deep. That will be a good comparison.

JSB Exact Heavy
You must wonder if I’ve lost my mind, testing the 10.34-grain JSB Exact Heavy domed pellet in a rifle this weak. No, that’s one of the types of pellets I expect might do well at 50 yards. It certainly has the capability to buck the wind, so I thought it might be a good one to test. I have almost no experience shooting airguns of this low power level out to 50 yards, so this is just a hunch.

JSB Exact Heavys averaged 500 f.p.s when seated flush with the breech. The low was 499 f.p.s., and the high was 501 f.p.s., so there was a total variation of just 2 f.p.s. That’s remarkable for a spring-piston air rifle — I don’t care what type it is! This pellet generates 5.74 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.

When seated deep, the same pellet averaged 511 f.p.s., with a low of 509 f.p.s. and a high of 512 f.p.s. The spread opened up to 3 f.p.s., which is still astonishing. Deep-seated pellets averaged 11 f.p.s. faster than flush-seated pellets. The average muzzle energy was 6.0 foot-pounds.

RWS Superdome
The second pellet I tested was the ever-popular RWS Superdome. This is another pellet that I believe might do well at long range when fired from this air rifle. When seated flush, they averaged 552 f.p.s., with a 17 f.p.s. velocity spread from 543 f.p.s. to 560 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy this pellet generated when seated flush was 5.62 foot-pounds.

When seated deep, the average velocity increased by 10 f.p.s. to 562 f.p.s. The spread ranged from 557 to 565 f.p.s., so it tightened up to just 8 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 5.82 foot-pounds.

Beeman Kodiak
Next, I tested the Beeman Kodiak pellet. This is another heavy pellet that I plan to try at 25 yards; and if it does well there, at 50 yards, too. At 10.65 grains, this is the heaviest pellet in today’s test. When they were seated flush, Kodiaks averaged 483 f.p.s. in the LGV Olympia. The spread went from a low of 478 f.p.s. to a high of 487 f.p.s., so 9 f.p.s. in total. That’s still pretty tight. The average energy was 5.52 foot-pounds.

When seated deep, the average velocity for Kodiaks increased to 501 f.p.s. The spread now went from a low of 479 f.p.s. to a high of 515 f.p.s., so a total of 36 f.p.s., which is on the high side. The average muzzle energy was 5.94 foot-pounds.

JSB Exact Express
The JSB Exact Express pellet is one I haven’t tried before. It’s a dome that weighs 7.87 grains. Normally, I would try the JSB Exact RS pellet in a rifle like this; but when I tested it in the past as a 10-meter rifle, I did try the RS pellets and they didn’t seem to do very well at 10 meters. So, I welcomed the opportunity to include this new JSB dome in the test.

Although it’s heavier than the RS, this Express pellet is still the lightest pellet I tried in this test. When seated flush, it averaged 585 f.p.s., with a spread from 569 to a high of 593 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 5.98 foot-pounds.

Of course, I expected this pellet to go even faster when seated deep, but it didn’t. In fact the relationship between deep-seating and velocity turned around 180 degrees with this pellet. The average for deep-seated Express pellets was 547 f.p.s., with a range that went from 545 to 553 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 5.23 foot-pounds. So, just like we have seen in some tests of deep-seated pellets in the past, here’s another surprise. I wonder what will happen in the accuracy test?

Trigger-pull
The Walther LGV Olympia has an adjustable 2-stage match trigger. The one on my rifle is set very nicely, and stage 2 breaks at 10.5 to 11 oz. I can do very fine work with a good trigger like this.

Impressions thus far
I was surprised by how consistent the rifle is with JSB pellets. The fact that 3 pellets increased when seated deep, while one decreased, is also something curious. It just points out the need to test a gun in as many ways as you can think of, I guess.

Best of all, this test gives me one more opportunity to shoot and handle this rifle. I own many nice airguns, but my work doesn’t often afford the chance to play with them; so, tests like this one are a refreshing change for me. And I know that many of you get enjoyment from reading about a fine vintage airgun. It’s a nice change of pace.

I do hope the newer readers will see how nice these older airguns are and maybe use the links to explore them more thoroughly. If you’re new to the shooting sports, this is where a lot of the fun is found.

63 Responses to “Walther LGV Olympia field test: Part 2”

  • Joe Says:

    I wish Walther still makes this exact same old LGV but adjustable cheek piece and butt plate. I would borrow the money to buy in a heartbeat.
    I shot (never own) this gun, and love it just after one shot. What I like the most is the VERY smooth firing cycle, the very low report (neighbors will not hear), very easy cocking (yes your 8 year old can cock it) and that soft gentle recoil. Not even the FWB 300S or the Diana 75 or the Anschutz 380 can comes close this these characteristics. I never knew how powerful this gun is until today when B.B. tested it. I thought the old LGV was doing about 450 fps using a 8g pellet because the cocking is easy and the firing cycle is so smooth and the recoil is so low. I am surprise that it shoots even harder than my FWB 601.

  • kevin Says:

    This article brings a big smile to my face.

    It’s inevitable that if you have one of these fine classics in your home that when it’s calm outside and you have a little time you’ll run outside and pellet test these guns at long distance. This is the edge of airguns that absolutely thrills me.

    kevin

    • FrankB Says:

      + 1 ! !

    • Joe Says:

      Kevin,
      I don’t need to wait for a calm day. It is a 10-M gun, you can shoot it inside or shoot it out to your patio from inside your house. That is one advantage of 10-M gun; it is NOT over power.

      • kevin Says:

        Joe,

        You’ll note in my post I said “long distance”. The implication, because of the article, is 50 yards. It needs to be calm outside because I don’t have 50 yards indoors to shoot my 10 meter airguns.

        kevin

  • Victor Says:

    B.B.,

    I love these old precision class rifles! I competed with an FWB 300, and that was one of my two favorite types of competition. You know, a couple days ago I was saying that it would be nice if someone made a rifle similar to these, but that was cheaper than rifles like the Challenger, or Edge, and then I found one. The Tech Force TF79 almost fills the bill. It’s only $150.00, and shoots about as well as this Walther LVG Olympia at 10 meters, based on your reviews of both rifles. Only problem is that it’s in .22 caliber, and uses CO2.

    On the other hand, because the current version of the TF79 is .22 caliber, maybe it will out-shoot this Olympia at 25 and 50 yards? Another blog/review, possibly?

    Victor

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Victor,

      I don’t know if I will get around to test a TF 79 in .22, but you can always look at my test of the Crosman 160 that it is based on:

      http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/tag/crosman-160/

      B.B.

    • Robert from Arcade Says:

      You can get a competion grade side cocking version of the QB rifle in .177 but un-fortunately PA doesn’t carry them . I have a QB-78 and if you get a good barrel it will shoot as well as this . The QB series are rewarding and easy to work on, and it is one of the few guns the Chinese build that are worth the effort to do so.

      • Victor Says:

        Robert,

        B.B. also reviewed the QB78. Here’s the link.

        http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/11/qb78-copy-of-crosman-160167.html

        I’d like to see the QB57, a side-lever air-rifle, but with a target rifle stock and sights (peeps). Thus far, I think that the TF79 is closest to what I’m looking for in an inexpensive target rifle. The QB57 with the right stock and sights could beat it, if it existed that way.

        Thanks for hipping me to the QB’s, because I’d never heard of them before!

        Victor

        • BG_Farmer Says:

          Victor,
          My wife shoots a QB88, which is the predecessor to the QB57. The action is the same but the 57 is a little fancier; the 57 also probably has nicer sights and maybe synthetic seals. Both can take the GRT trigger upgrade, although I think the stock one is pretty good, just long travel. The 88 is a nice little shooter, and I have always intended to see how far I could push it, but never wanted to mess up what it is right now. Not sure it is precision shooting class, just because Chinese barrels and build quality are such a crap shoot at the time and price point they were built for, but most of the design is a cheap copy of something like FWB300 (with rough internals and no recoil compensation). There was also a straight Chinese springer target rifle (really a close copy of FWB 300, I think) available for a while — I can’t remember the model, but BB, Robert or Vince, might.

          There is a pretty full target version (stock and sights) of QB78 available. PA should carry them, but they don’t. I wish they had the QB series. Your climate (Las Vegas right?) is perfect for CO2 — too cold here most of the time when I have time to shoot!

          • Vince Says:

            I think you mean the QB58. The ’57 was a bullpup/takedown design with a remote trigger and a different beartrap mechanism. The ’88 and the later ’58 were traditional sporters.

            • BG_Farmer Says:

              Vince,
              You right, thanks, but the 57 is the same action more or less (but the trigger would be different for bullpup purposes),also I think!

              I wish I’d bought a ’58 when they were available; my wife doesn’t want me messing with her 88.

              • Robert from Arcade Says:

                BG, Vince of course is correct ,the QB-57 is the bullpup . I also wish I had bought a 58 when they were available. I have a .177 QB57 , and it is suprisingly accurate with RWS superdomes. I find that the Superdomes are good pellets for the Chinese guns. There was a sidelever version of that Chinese copy of the FWB 300 for sale on the Williams Gun Sight web site in their used guns for sale section under airguns. Look there if you’d like to check one out .

                • BG_Farmer Says:

                  The target rifle was the BS4 (had to look). I know it is not available here anymore due to low sales volume, but it probably still is available from somewhere (either used market or maybe still in use/made in China).

                  I think this review link (unfortunately pictures are missing) is OK (BB might know “Tex Force”), otherwise just delete link, please:
                  http://air-guns-pneumatic-pnews.blogspot.com/2006/03/how-good-is-bs4-target-rifle.html

                • BG_Farmer Says:

                  I went to the Williams site and that appears to be IT (BS4)! Nicer looking than I remember, though. My main reservation is that the price could be the better part of a used 300! The BS4 might be a cult collectible in its own right, though.

                • BG_Farmer Says:

                  BS4 still appears to be made by Shanghai (Industry), as it is on their website. Probably means they could be imported in quantity (to start a league or something).

    • BG_Farmer Says:

      Victor,
      I need to collect my scattered thoughts. The QB (co2) rifles come in x78 (cartridge or bulk fill) and x79 variants (use 88g Air Source tanks and similar); they are available in either .177 or .22. It would be great if PA imported the base QB78 and the target version(s).

      The BS4 chinese sidelever is a direct copy of FWB 300 that does appear to be in production still:
      http://www.airrifle-china.com/products_detail/&productId=8133bd23-80cb-4400-a046-48db7359bef1&comp_stats=comp-FrontProducts_list01-1317100449435.htm
      It would be worthwhile researching importing a quantity of them for an entry level serious AR match club. I don’t remember them being horribly expensive when they were sold here for what the quality was said to be.

      Or PA might be able to help you import a bunch of the 2078 or 79 CO2 target rifles in .177, but I don’t think they are as accurate as the BS4′s in general, more of a “target style” than intended for that type of use. A screaming good deal for what they are, though, and maybe just the ticket to get people started without a huge outlay.

      • BG_Farmer Says:

        Sorry about that link (direct copied) — I think you have to go to main page:
        http://www.airrifle-china.com
        Then products=>(side menu)match gun=>(picture menu)BS4.

        • Victor Says:

          BG_Farmer,

          Thanks for the info! I just sent them an e-mail, asking where I might buy one, and how much they cost.

          Thanks again,
          Victor

          • RidgeRunner Says:

            The problem with that Chinese copy of the FWB is it is a Chinese copy of the FWB. Is the Chinese copy of the TX200 up to the quality of the TX200? I have yet to see a Chinese copy of anything that I would want to own.

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    I hate it when you do the blogs on these old masters. I am going to have to have a major yard sale soon.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      RR,

      I owned and got rid of an LGV Olympia many years ago — telling myself that I had owned it and gotten it out of my system. Apparently not, because this one is going to stay with me.

      I feel the same about the FWB 300S that I got from Mac. Of course that one now has sentimental appeal, on top of being a great shooter.

      B.B.

    • John Says:

      I might have to yard sale some of my older guns soon. Clear them out for the newer stuff. I have way too many. Most I don’t bother shooting any more.

  • Robert from Arcade Says:

    I shoot my little Diana 24 out to 50 yards and use the JSB exact express pellets. They will just barely knock down the Gamo squirrel target I shoot at. I have just a 4X BSA AO air rifle scope on the gun. It’s fun to figure out the hold over.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Robert,

      You have actual experience shooting guns this low-powered at 50 yards? That’s wonderful.

      So what kind of 10-shot groups do you think I can expect from this LGV at 50?

      B.B.

      • Robert from Arcade Says:

        Yes I do, and I get groups that are 1-1 1/2″ at that range with three or four in every group of ten that open it to 2 1/2″ . I use a two foot square of cardboard with a mark at the top of it to calculate hold over, and place that behind my knock down target. Then I use the top part of the verticle cross hair(the thick part of the duplex reticle) as a reference to know where to aim for that distance. It is cool if I get two or three hits in a row, even if I have to walk out to raise up the target . I’m getting a little more velocity from the 24 than your getting with your rifle . About in the 620 fps range with the exacts.

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Robert,

          That’s good to know.

          Thanks,

          B.B.

          • RidgeRunner Says:

            I know you are planning to use open sights at 50 yards but if my memory serves me correct, with my FWB601 with a scope mounted, I was getting about1 1/2 – 2 feet of drop depending on which pellet I used.

            • B.B. Pelletier Says:

              RR,

              So I will adjust the target sights for whatever drop I encounter. I already did this with the FWB 300S, so I know it’s possible.

              B.B.

          • RidgeRunner Says:

            Also, my best groups were with H&N FTT 4.52mm heads. CPLs (boxed) were a very close 2nd.

    • Joe Says:

      FYI,
      A long time ago, I shot my FWB 601 at 50 yards using wadcutter pellets. I setup the NRA smallbore rifle 50 yard targets (NRA A-23). All the pellets landed side way and which ways onto and thru the paper target, none landed square and cut a clean hole on the paper. I didn’t try pellets of another shape, perhaps B.B. will show us in the next article.

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        Joe,

        I did a test on “American Airgunner” in which wadcutters were shot with domed pellets. Ot to 25 yards the wadcutters did fine, but by 40 yards they were shooting 3-inches, where the domes were shooting tight.

        Wadcutters are short-range pellets only.

        I wasn’t aware they lost their stability, though. That was good to learn.

        B.B.

      • Robert from Arcade Says:

        Joe , I also shoot a HW 85 ,in .177 at about 75 yards and was surprised that the round nosed pellets would penetrate a stout tin can at that distance. They also hit dead on, no key holes . I have had the crow magnum pellets from that rifle start to go sideways at 25 yards.

      • Vince Says:

        When I had about 60 yards in my back yard I used to shoot a lot of Premier Hollow-Point because they were cheap. The shape is the same as the normal Premier Dome, except for a small hole centered in the nose.

        I wondered about their stability at long range, but when I tried shooting groups at that range I noticed something about my targets. Since I was using standard paper I was getting a lot of tearing, and where the tear began (where the pellet hit) I could see a smudge.

        Consistently the smudge would be circular and grey. But in the center of each smudge was a little white dot because the hole in the nose of the pellet wouldn’t leave anything on the paper. The smudge and dot were both round (not oblong), and the dot was always centered. This seems to indicate that the Premier HP’s were quite stable at that range – no perceptible yawing or tumbling.

  • Jim H. Says:

    You tested two JSB pellets. The Heavy showed a velocity spread of 2 fps and the Express had a double digit spread. What factors most influence the difference? Is it because one pellet fits tighter in the barrel or is it more influenced by the weight of the pellet? Are the skirts on the pellets designed differently? Thanks, Jim H.

    • twotalon Says:

      Jim..
      I put that in the wrong place.

      twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Jim,

      It’s probably all those things plus the head size of each pellet, and the alloy that was used to make the pellets. In other words, it is extremely difficult to pin this down, and I would doubt anyone who said otherwise.

      Notice that the heavier pellets went faster when they were seated deep, but the light pellets did the reverse. What’s behind that? No one knows.

      I can tell you that the lighter pellets did fit the bore looser, so perhaps that was the biggest driver, but that’s just a guess.

      B.B.

      • Jim H. Says:

        I should have known that there wouldn’t be a simple answer, lol!!! After posting my question I went to the PA website and looked closely at the photos of the two pellets. There is a considerable difference in the shape of the pellets as well with the Heavy having a longer profile and shorter skirt. At least that’s what it looked like in the photos. This could also help explain the difference based on drag/aero factors. Thanks for the help.

      • Wulfraed Says:

        Different peak pressure? If one were to look at this as an engine piston cylinder, the deep seated pellets produce a lower compression ratio than a shallow seating (if you pretend the pellet isn’t going to move).

        Combine a lower compression ratio with a lower mass pellet — so it moves even easier under the lower pressure, and you may get an overall lower pressure peak. Maybe low enough to not expand the skirt fully?

        While the heavier pellet may need the added depth to cushion the shock and prevent too much skirt expansion…

        Think of the experiments one could propose for an MS in physics…

  • twotalon Says:

    Jim…

    From what I have seen when testing a bunch of different pellets in different rifles, it looks like a combination of all of those things. The net result is that the power curve gets erratic.

    I would guess that the major contributing factor with one particular pellet may not be the major contributing factor with a different pellet.

    twotalon

    • Jim H. Says:

      Twotalon,
      I thought I really was on to something here. Same gun, same shooter, same company making the pellets. In addition, it was a spring-piston gun so shot-to-shot variables related to air pressures like you could have with a PCP or CO2 were minimized. Logically, it seemed that something in these two pellets alone were causing the significant differences in velocity spread. Alas, I think the real lesson is: The “Art” of shooting is definitely as important as the “Science” of shooting.
      Regards, Jim H.

      • twotalon Says:

        Jim…

        It boils down to what the gun thinks. It does what it wants to do.
        You are limited to a fixed amount of air to work with. There is an interraction between the pellet and the pressure curve generated. Some pellets react better than others with the curve, which is variable depending on when and how fast a pellet moves when it finally does start moving. Something similar happens with firearms….how to build an efficient and consistent pressure curve.

        twotalon

  • shakes Says:

    Off-topic, SORRY! Is there a reference somewhere to Ambient temperature and muzzle velocity, perhaps even barometric pressure and muzzle velocity in Springers… It is late autumn here and I get about a 30fps drop from 9degC (48fahrenheit) in the mornings to about 22degC (72fahrenheit) in the afternoons… well that is from 800 – 770. Whilst it is shooting at 750 fps it goes down to 730 fps over the same variation – so only 20fps… On a cloudy day it seems to also shoot lower, not checked this out carefully yet…

    ES is 8-10fps for all pellets tested (10 shots) 10 shots fired as quick as I can, no waiting for rifle temps to settle or anything… the ten shots SEEM to group into a slower and a faster bunch, of about 4 fps es each, the first 5 shots are fast, the last 5 slow…

    Oh yes on-topic… sortof… I noted that when shooting tighter fitting pellets in my 97k seating them very slightly deeper, had a minimal to postive effect on muzzle velocity, whereas looser fitting pellets setting them very slightly deeper would have a negative effect on muzzle velocity… pellets were 8.44 and 8.65 pellets. Difference in average muzzle velocity was about 5fps (depth was changed by a bit more than 1mm 1/25″… IF the rifle is “low” powered relative to the pellet “fit”, I think finalising the rifling gives less friction before it goes, if the rifle is “high” powered relative to the pellet fit and weight, the shallow seating gives more hold back allowing more pressure to develop before pellet starts moving… But it is guess at the moment..

    Cheers!

    • shakes Says:

      P.S. this was also done testing 4.50 H&N FTT’s and 4.52 H&N FTT’s and the 4.52′s didn’t mind the 1mm seating depth, whereas the 4.50′s went slower with depth…

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      shakes,

      Welcome to the blog.

      I have never seen a table that relates spring gun velocity to temperature. In fact, if there was one, it would be wrong and I’ll tell you why. The lubrication in your gun will determine its sensitivity to temperature fluctuations more than anything. Not just how much lube, but also the type of lubricant.

      I have tested a spring gun down to zero degrees F (-17.78 C) and the velocity decreased about 40 f.p.s. in a gun that shot .177 pellets at 1,100 f.p.s.

      I expect your gun is lubricated heavily. Either that of the clearance is tight and you are using a viscous grease.

      B.B.

      • shakes Says:

        Very interesting, I thought the ambient temp would actually equate to air density, and that rather than the available combustion products would be the source of mv variation… especially since the mv decreases with a rise in temperature… But you are right, it would appear that my rifle is heavily lubed, I can see grease on the piston seal through the transfer port, just add much light. Will have to follow up on that…

  • Guns & Guitars Says:

    B.B.
    I have a small cabinet full of pellets and while I use several different pellets in my less expensive rifles the JSB 10.34 grain pellet has definitely become my go to pellet in my better rifles.

    Naturally I start out trying different pellets but in the end this particular pellet always seems to shoot the most consistently accurate groups ( I can’t speak to velocity because I don’t own a chronometer yet). However, intuitively they feel consistent in velocity. That being said I am not surprised this pellet was the most consistent in velocity in your LGV Olympia.

    On the other hand I am concerned that I may have unconsciously convinced myself that only the JSB pellets will be the most consistent. So… your blog today has lead me to the conclusion that I need to take all of my rifles and re-test each gun with a variety of pellets just to be certain I haven’t talked myself into something. Any pointers on things I should be aware of when doing this new test?

    I actually expect this to be fun.
    G&G

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      G&G,

      Your experience is very similar to my own. However, I have to try other pellets, because sometimes there will be a surprise. RWS Superdomes sometimes surprise me, as do Crosman Premiers. I guess I have a small stable of good pellets in every caliber and I seldom venture far from the ones I know that work, except to try the new ones when I find them.

      B.B.

  • Matt61 Says:

    Pellet seating is easy for a man who loads the Ballard but not for one in love with magazine rifles.

    john, man after my own heart in the concern about metal fatigue. It has taken me awhile to get over that with my military surplus rifles. Are you concerned about this problem with your AKs which are known for being subject to abuse or do you use only new/American-made parts. Have you thought of putting a scope on your 514? I don’t believe the drilling and tapping for a mount will alter the appearance much.

    Matt61

    • John Says:

      I use a new american made barrel on my AK47′s and make my own receivers. By law I have to have 6 U.S. made parts on the AK to make it legal. Barrel counts as one part. fire control group counts as 3 and a hand grip counts as 1. U.S. made magazine is 1. most of the time when you get an AK kit they either replace the barrel with a new one, remove the barrel completely or the barrel is trashed to ATF specs and needs to be replaced since it is trashed and was likely all worn out before the ATF trashing of the gun.

      I plan on doing nothing to my 514 but to blue the metal and use it as it is. Most likely it won’t be used much due to age. It’s more or less a relic to prove that I came from somewhere and I prefer to leave it as is but cared for and maintained.

  • John Says:

    Fair warning today. If you ever plan to visit Michigan, don’t bother. I don’t drive or have a license. I haven’t had one for years or a car. But today I went to court due to the fact somebody put a car in my name and then racked up $126.00 in parking tickets. I tried to explain to the judge that not only did I have no car and no license but I never go to Grand Rapids, MI for any reason. The judge called me a liar and increased the fines to $150.00. I didn’t get a chance to explain, present evidence, or say much of anything. This is what Michigan calls justice. So do yourselves a favor and stay away from our corrupt system here if you can.

  • Cole Says:

    I know that lead free pellets aren’t great but since this is a low powered rifle do you think it is worth maybe trying some to get a bit more power out of the gun for the long shots?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    BS-4,

    Yes, the BS-4 was a very nice target rifle. I owned one for a while. It was a copy of the FWB 300S. The stock was plainer, but the rifle was very accurate. I don’t think it was as accurate as a 300S. but it was certainly in the HW55/Walther LGV region.

    The trouble is, when you need parts, where you going to get them? The Chinese don’t have a support base in the U.S. Everything has to be custom made. I would just get a used 300S for the same money and be happy.

    B.B.

    • BG_Farmer Says:

      BB,
      For an individual, yes. But for an entry level club where you want everyone to have something more or less standard while keeping entry costs low so people can afford to try with as few people left out as possible? At least that was what I thought Victor was thinking :)! Parts with BS4 might indeed be a problem, but I bet if one bought a good quantity, the factory would likely ship maintenance items with them. Aren’t 300 parts a little pricey also, if not rare?

      I’m not sold on the BS4 idea, but it is one option that seemed worth mentioning, esp. as Victor is a fan of the 300.

      • Victor Says:

        BG_Farmer,

        You are correct about why I’m at least curious about lower cost rifles. The economy is still pretty bad for a lot of people, including the City that I am still trying to convince to keep a junior marksmanship program. My last letter from the City Administrator indicated that: A) They haven’t made a final decision regarding some form of range/marksmanship program. B) If they remain interested, it may be limited to an airgun program. C) They are concerned about backlash to recent gun related tragedies and the NRA’s response. I know the attitudes of most non-shooters, and have been combating their “concerns” for a long time.

        Back during my competition days, the mayor used to have on a kind of tour, demonstrating what competitive marksmanship was all about. I would go to meetings or lunches with various organizations with all of my equipment (guns, mats, spotting scope, EVERYTHING) and setup as if I were going to shoot a match. Then we would explain things and answer questions. I can honestly say that I never met anyone who wasn’t both blown away and enlightened after our demonstration. Competitive marksmanship is simply something that few people know about, and when they find out just how challenging and sophisticated it really is, they lose all thoughts of “shooting” as being a “macho”, dangerous, “terrorist”, mindless, or generally bad activity for kids. It took years for a program to happen, and people really were concerned that having such a program would create terrorist (really), or violent criminals.

        Back then, I truly lived shooting. I walked it, I talked it, I dreamt it, and all but ate it.

        This is also why I’m very interested in the MAV77.

        Victor

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        BG_Farmer,

        Unless you are buying rifles by the container load (e.g. thousands at a time) the Chinese are not interested in the business. The BS-4 is almost hand-made. To get it Compasseco used all their considerable fetch.

        They retailed at $400 when FWBs were selling for $1,200. Today they would retail for $600. I’ve bought used 300s for $200. And, no, the 300 is not rare. You can find them anywhere. They will be club guns from Europe. If you want a pristine one, then the price goes up, but $500 still buys a nice one.

        B.B.

        • BG_Farmer Says:

          BB,
          You know I would love to buy a container of Chinese air rifles — would keep me tinkering forever :)!

    • Victor Says:

      B.B.,

      I wonder how well these BS4′s sell here in the US, if at all. I had never heard of these until today. I may have heard people mention Chinese B-something-or-another’s, but nothing concrete enough for me to know what they were talking about.

      Maybe if there was a good distributor here, parts and service wouldn’t be such an issue. Thanks for weighting in on this!

      Victor

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    For what it’s worth…..either the Air Arms Field (8.4gr) or the CPL’s (7.9gr) grouped best in most of my Olympia’s at 50 yards. I DID NOT seat them deep since that didn’t help. I know JSB makes the air arms pellets but the jsb branded pellets didn’t group in my Olympia’s. I’ve seen this before and still have no explanation.

    Not sure if this translates to your elevation (velocity) but at 5,200 feet it’s good information since I shot many tins through my Olympia’s at 50 yards off a bench. Hard to stop when you have a calm day with such an easy cocking gun that with a heavy barrel sleeve benches so well.

    kevin

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Kevin,

      Thanks for those tips. I shoot at 25 yards next and I will follow your advice, though I do need to try deep-seating, since I have talked about it thus far.

      B.B.

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