by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
M1 Carbine on top and Crosman M1 Carbine below. A realistic copy!
Today, we’ll test the Crosman M1 Carbine BB gun for accuracy. I pulled out all the stops, plus I shot a comparison group with a Daisy Avanti Champion 499 BB gun for comparison.
The course
I fired all targets from 15 feet, which is the NRA distance for BB gun competition. Daisy uses 5 meters, which is about 16 feet, 6-and-a-fraction inches, but the NRA standardized on 15 feet many years ago and hasn’t changed. They don’t hold any significant competitions that I am aware of, while Daisy hosts the International BB Gun Championships every year. But since the gun I’m testing was never meant for competition, I felt the shorter distance would suffice.
I shot the gun from a rest using the artillery hold to take myself out of the picture. The target was well lit, and the Crosman M1 Carbine has an adjustable peep sight at the rear, so the sighting system is pretty advanced.
Daisy Premium Grade zinc-plated BBs
The first BB was the Daisy Premium Grade zinc-plated BB. You saw how these compare to the Umarex precision BBs in Part 2 of this report. Nine of the 10 BBs landed in 1.354 inches and were slightly low and to the right of center. But 1 of the 10 shots strayed up and to the right, opening this group to 5.148 inches between centers. No shot was a called flier.
The 9 shots in the bull area went into 1.354 inches, but the shot at the upper right corner opened the group to 5.148 inches. Daisy Premium Grade zinc-plated BBs.
I expected results that were like the 9 shots. I did not expect any wild shots like this one!
Okay, so maybe the Umarex BBs would do better in this gun. Remember, I’m shooting off a rest at 15 feet.
Umarex Precision BBs
Next, I loaded 10 Umarex Precision steel BBs and tried a second group on a fresh target. I can’t tell you how large this group is because 2 of the BBs missed the target trap and hit the backer board I put up to protect the wall. I know one of them was high because it passed through a piece of cardboard I had taped to the target trap. The 8 shots that landed on the target paper made a group measuring 3.046 inches between centers. It’s impossible to know how large the actual group was since 1 of the BBs left no record whatsoever.
These 8 Umarex BBs landed in a 3.046 inch group at 15 feet, but 2 BBs missed the target paper altogether. So, the 10-shot group is larger, but there’s no way of knowing how large.
Wow! This wasn’t the way I remembered the M1 Carbine! I knew you would have a lot of questions for me. So, I decided to do something about it.
Avanti Precision Ground Shot
I also tried the Avanti Precision Ground shot that Daisy sells for the Avanti Champion 499 BB gun. This shot is very uniform in size and measures 0.1739 inches with my micrometer. That’s considerably larger than either of the other 2 BBs I shot.
This time, all 10 BBs hit the paper and made a group measuring 3.681 inches between centers. That is the best group of all 3 BBs tried. But it wasn’t good enough for me. Shooting 3 inches at 15 feet is something I never want to do because I know I’m better than that. How much better? Well, I had to find out.
Ten Avanti Precision Ground shot BBs made this 3.6781-inch group at 15 feet. It was the best group made by the the M1 Carbine in this session.
Avanti Champion 499 BB gun
I next shot a group in the same way but with the Avanti Champion 499 BB gun — the world’s most accurate BB gun. Naturally, I used the Avanti Precision Ground shot since it’s the only BB developed specifically for this gun.
This time, 10 shots went into 0.328 inches. They were a little high and right on the target, which means I need to adjust the rear sight just a little, but I’m pleased with the group size. It came after firing 30 aimed shots, so I was starting to get tired, if anything.
This is 10 shots from the Daisy Avanti Champion 499 BB gun. Though the group measures 0.328 inches between centers, the gun is capable of much smaller groups in the right hands.
Conclusion
The Crosman M1 Carbine is not as accurate as I remembered. I expected to put 10 shots into 1.5 inches or better, and that didn’t happen with any BB — not even the Precision Ground shot. I think I’ve shot 5-shot groups with this BB gun in the past, and that may have given me false expectations.
Still, the Crosman M1 Carbine is a wonderful BB gun from the standpoint of realism and power. It comes from a time I fear we will never see again, and I lament the end of the era that produced such a fine BB gun.
This gun does make me think about something when I was a kid.
I had a Benji 392 for a bit. (cant remember how old I was; think I got it after my Winchester 190) my Dad ended up with it for bird control in the barn and then I got the 190.
All I know is all my buddy’s thought the gun was something else. We would go down in the woods and take the old Coke (those spiral glass bottles and the Pepsi one’s too) and shoot at them.
The Benji would destroy them. The BB gun’s would just ricochet off. All my buddy’s wanted to take turns shooting the Benji.
But I bet the M1 BB gun would of been cool also. Its kind of crazy when I think about it now. But playing Army was a big thing back then.
My Dad would get kind of mad at me for playing Army but I could see the smirk on his face.
Gunfun 1
What a coincidence! I & my brothers used a borrowed 392 for about 2 years in the 1990s and we called it the “Benji” too. We took out quite a lot of game & pests with it. My mind goes back to those days now and I recall the awesome power, also the LOUD report with a full charge. Those were the days!
Errol
Errol
Yep those were the good old days.
Wish I still had the Benji. My brother got it and I think he traded it for a bike (a bicycle not a motorcycle) if I remember right. He was younger than me.
And I should say about playing Army above.
My Dad made us use sticks for guns. We would get in trouble Big Time if somebody would start waving a gun around. I think I was around 7 or 8 years old then.
I already had a pellet gun and got to go shoot by myself and with my friends so I already knew that there was no messing around when I had a gun in my hand.
Gunfun 1
My Dad was just the same. Strict discipline where guns were handled.We got a kick in the butt or a warmer on the ear if we mishandled. This training is still with us & we do it without thinking. Never had an accident to date. God bless their Souls!
Errol
I finally spent the money to get a 499 as a result of reading the articles on it. It’s actually kind of amazing that something like it is in production. Remarkably accurate for what it is and reasonably priced. I like the muzzle-loading design too, it gives a nice calm deliberate rhythm to target shooting with the gun. Sort of HO-scale Quigley Down Under.
Even with the so-so accuracy of the M1 BB I would still love to have one! the M1 just plain looks “right”!
nowhere,
So, you have a 499, eh! I like your description “An HO-scale Quigley”.
Do you shoot it offhand? If so, how does it do?
B.B.
When I shoot the 499 offhand I do surprisingly well (by my standards!) and get groups at 15 ft. that can be covered with a dime. I would have thought that the low mass and small size of the gun would result in it wobbling around more but it doesn’t seem to be the case. I’ve not yet spent any real time practicing the stance necessary for good offhand shooting so I suppose that the light weight works in my favor with the 499. The higher mass of my 602 which should help steady things offhand is probably offset by the fact that I’m not positioning myself properly to support that weight. Most of my shooting is done sitting on the floor in sort of “field target position” – not that I’ve really learned the proper way to do that either! I think this winter I’m going to make a concerted effort to improve these things. After all, the artillery-hold, “1911 grip”, and the other tutorials I’ve taken the time to read and follow here made a big improvement in my performance with the guns they apply to.
I also finally bought the Red Ryder that I never had as a kid. I think I missed out on a lot of fun! The strange thing is that looking back, I’m sure my parents would have got me one if I had asked (I was a pretty sensible kid and wouldn’t have done anything stupid with it, my Dad was a great marksman and I’m sure he would have loved to teach me) but I was just too shy to ask!
nowhere,
That was what I had hoped to hear! Good for you!
B.B.
The only positive I can see concerning this BB gun is collect-ability and from that point, I would prefer the wood stock. I hate to say it, but as far as a shooter goes, the new Red Ryder has it all over this thing. I think I’ll just wait until I can get my hands on a 99.
Speaking of collector’s items, the Benji HB177 and HB22 will no longer be produced. PA still has some HB22s for sale.
There will probably be a bunch at the Roanoke show for sale at an outrageous price.
That is HB17 and HB22. My bad. Also the EB22 is now a collectible.
B.B.
Does this gun have a rifled or smooth barrel? This type of accuracy would be with smooth barreled guns. Anyway, this is an ideal replica gun for an enthusiast.
Errol
Errol,
The M1 Carbine barrel is smoothbore.
B.B.
Given that it shoots BBs, the most likely condition would be for a smoothbore (unless for some reason the maker only makes rifled barrels for pellets and uses them on the BB guns too). Rifling won’t do anything for steel BBs.
While it’s not the Crosman M1, I have the Winchester M14 CO2, /product/winchester-m14-co2-air-rifle?m=2719 , I haven’t found the rifle to be particularly accurate, but it is a fun gun in semi-automatic mode. For those that like replicas, this isn’t a bad rifle to have in your collection. Plus it shoots BB’s and pellets from its rifled barrel.
Matt,
To much stuff at the range? That is indicative of too little “range attendance” frequency. I used to carry to much too the range too. But what can be expected of a guy who wears bdu’s for their cargo carrying ability and is called “pockets” at work? My clothing weighs more than most people’s day/overnight packs…. There is no cure.
When I had my DE .44 mag, every one of my first shots hit the target exactly where I was aiming. It was the following shots that would wander a bit. I think this was because I practice constantly with an air pistol allowing me that first good shot, and then the reality of the recoil, coupled with the brass occasionally striking me in the forehead destroyed my cool…
/Dave
It’s a cute old relic, but seeing what is out there now I won’t be missing the one I sold very much. In fact much of my collection is already sold as I go on to bigger better guns. I’m already literally carving my next gun’s parts. My next one is a real AR-15 with a kevlar reinforced polymer lower receiver. If all goes well I will have a way to build a lower witout special milling jigs which are very expensive. That means I’ll have managed to make a real AR15 for less than it costs me to make an AK47. I have one other project going right now I hope works. I recently hot my hands on a full metal 1911 tanfoglio witness. I’m going to try converting it to a .22 lr 1911 with a few parts just to see if it can be done. If not I’ll be carving a polymer 1911 frame like my AR15 frame. But the 1911 bb gun will serve as a very accurate template. After that my next project will be a monster bb gun that is capable of spitting bb’s at a rate of 2000 rounds per minute at 900 fps. Needless to say something like that doesn’t need to be accurate. You point it and hose down a target, target disappears. Am I like an evil Willy Wonka or what?
Yeah, you are like an evil Willy Wonka. This is intense and fascinating.
Matt61
I just tore the tanfoglio witness 1911 down to the bare frame. It appears that everything inside the gun’s frame is in fact identicle to the actual 1911. I compared it to the actual tear down of a real 1911 frame. With only 2 very minor pieces it is completely identical in every way. Hammer spring, mainspring housing and mainspring, trigger, hammer everything is carbon copy identical. The only difference is the piece that shoves a new round into a real a911 from the magazine fires the co2 in the magazine. If I put a real 1911 slide barrel and slide springs in it, there is no reason why this gun should not be able to fire a .22lr, .38 or .45 acp as well as be a Colt Defender with the 4″ slide and barrel. Very fascinating little bb gun. It also looks like the Blackwater 1911 can also do this truck and be identical to the Rudius 1911 which has a polymer frame with rail under the slide for a laser or light. Looks like the possibilities here are practically endless. But we shall see. For all I know I might just need to go mill out my own frame for this project in the end.
The AR15 is a whole new ball game. That might even be worthy of it’s own blog as it is an all new way to build. (could be a way to get the lower for that crosman pcp deal that requires a AR lower. That too opens up all kinds of new shooting possibilities and forces me to eat my words that “Plastic has no place on a gun.”
John,
I would be HIGHLY suspicious of the metallurgy of your pistol. The frame of a 1911 firearm is under a lot of stress when the pistol fires. The barrel link has to be held in place after it rotates to unlock the barrel from the slide, and the slide stop pin is what holds it. If your pistol is made of ticky-tacky, you could end up with a slide sticking out of your forehead!
B.B.
I always take precautions when I experiment like this. The gun in question is all metal and I will be sure to test it via gun clamp remotely so I am nowhere near the gun should things go south. The Rudius frame which is also on my build list is a kevlar reinforced polymer designed specifically for building a 1911. I simply have to finish drilling holes and milling the slide guide rails on it which will be far easier than doing that with a steel 80% frame. My first test is simply because I have a theory it can be done. I already checked most of the bb gun out and everything inside the frame is precisely what is in a Colt 1911A1 with only 2 phillips head screws being the difference. Neither screw will take any stress when it fires. This is the full metal Tanfoglio Witness 1911 I am experimenting on, not the weak plastic one. Don’t worry, I’ll live to shoot again another day. If I suspect something will not work I will stop the experiment and do something else. One of the reasons I decided to try a .45 conversion is I am looking for a fairly inexpensive way to build what I want. It’s my hobby. I mill my own frames and receivers for the challenge of doing so. This is simply another challenge that makes my life interesting. I wouldn’t recommend anybody else trying this though. I am also a trained gunsmith so I do have experience building guns. This is in fact one of the things the military trained me to do. When I tore into the 1911 frame today I was thrilled to see all the actual 1911 parts. If I didn’t see that I would have called the whole thing off right then.
It may be “all metal” but you gotta ask yourself exactly what kind of metal…
Personnaly I’m with BB on this one and I wouldn’t try to fire a live round with a pot metal gun.
J-F
Precisely the reason I won’t be near it when I try it. I’ll fire it remotely in case something goes bad. Worst case scenario I destroy the frame and I go make another one. Everything but the frame I am going to be replacing with actual parts so there will be some safety. There is no way the barrel and slide components can be used to fire anything but a bb. The only thing I am interested in is just the frame of this bb gun. Everything else I can put on a frame I mill out for the purpose of building a gun later. This is just one experiment just because I want to try it. I always take ample safety precautions just like when I turned a flare gun into a .45 single shot pistol.It worked. Not very accurate but it worked.
Put a video camera nearby so we can see the frame exploding! 😉
Don’t get wrong I own one of those TW all metal 1911 and I love it! But having polished some parts on mine I can tell you that thing is SOFT.
If you like the 1911, look at the GSG 92 which is a replica of the Taurus 92 series of pistols (with a semi and full auto feature) and the SIG Sauer P226. They’re all full metal and very closely copy the firearm they look like.
J-F
Don’t worry. I’ll be recording it. This can go one of two ways, succeed or epic fail. My last 3 builds succeeded A flare gun became a .45 long, and home made AK47 receivers made out of sheet metal both fire flawlessly. If it fails I at least have parts for the next frame. When life throws lemons at me I go make lemonarde. Then I find someone who’s life gave them vodka, and we have a party.
Did you see the guy who made an AK receiver out of a shovel?
He also makes cool pistols using Glock parts.
Just google it as I’m not sure I can put up the link as some language isn’t appropriate for kids.
J-F
Yeah, I’d be bit leery of this.
I have the GSG .22LR. Sure feels/looks like my friends Colts, but the slide is made from an aluminum/zinc alloy that definitely would not stand up to a .45ACP round.
Even you scenario of releasing it remotely. What if it’s strong enough to last a few rounds…just enough to give you confidence to fire it by hand…and then it lets go.
It shouldn’t be that hard to contact Tangfolio and find out what it’s made of.
John
But how many times will it do it safely. A thousand times or only once. I ain’t going to try out for that ball game that’s for sure.
I don’t usually fire a gun that much. I fire it a few times then put it up in my collection. It’s just to say “Yeah, I did that. Same thing happens with all my guns from guns I buy, trade for, or make. This is one of the ones that will be put on display along with all my other unsellable projects. Then I move on to my next great abomination. I never fire most guns I own more than a dozen times. The exception is my Airforce Condor. That one gets a good work out when I am in a mood. So I’m not overly worried. Eventually I’ll mill a good steel or polymer frame and turn it back into a bb gun and likely sell it.
I’d be surprised if the parts fit. If I’m not mistaken, it is illegal to make a BB gun that has parts interchangeable with a firearm.
We are talking about the Chinese and of course the U.S. government that makes laws it doesn’t often enforce because it makes laws that are unenforceable and as the government admitted after Sandy Hook, it cannot afford to enforce. They are too busy giving away all their money to people that hate us propping up hundreds of other governments. Like I said, at a minimum I have all the parts I need to put in an actual 1911 frame since it has just about all the parts necessary inside it. It’s just an experiment to see if it can be done. Maybe it can be, and maybe it can’t be. I’ll never know until I try it. I’ll know more when I buy a slide for it and try to fit it. If that doesn’t work then I’ll abandon that experiment and move on to the next experiment.
Vince you should have a look at one of those, I think appart from the slide and mag which contain de valve and blowback mecanism most if not every small parts (springs, trigger, hammer, safety, barrel bushing etc) are interchangeable.
Some fit compensator made for the firearm on them and it looks pretty good!
J-F
It looks so darned cool.
Yet, when you compare its groups against the Avanti 499 you I can’t help but remember Whelen’ ‘only accurate guns are interesting’
Maybe he should have added “pretty” and “fun” to the list of interesting guns?
J-F
I wish that worked for my J-F.
My struggles with my Savage are coming to fruition. Another shooting session yesterday with my ‘new improved grip’ (which I spoke about last week) and another 8 groups that averaged right at the 1″ mark. Factor in this is at 100m and it is definitely now a 1MOA or under gun.
Let me rephrase that…it has always been an accurate gun…now I’m using it to its potential.
Another gun in our stable is the little Mossberg 715T…their .22LR AR. It’s cool looking, it’s reliable…and it’s reviews puts its accuracy on par with the other .22LR AR’s (S&W, SIG, Ruger, etc).
But that accuracy with a red dot is two inches or so at 50m and a bit more than double that at 100m.
As neat looking as it is, if it wasn’t that my sons think it’s the best rifle we have (too much Call of Duty?) I’d probably sell it.
Isn’t it cool when you have something finally working like expected? Good to hear that the Savage is performing well.
See, that Mossberg isn’t as accurate as you wish it was but it looks good!
Kinda like a V6 Mustang or Camaro, it looks good/fast but lets you down in the performance departement compared to a same model V8 car.
J-F
Give the Mossberg some time and effort — my old Glenfield 60 shoots that way with most ammo (most people would have called it worn out in the 90’s), but it will shoot 1/2″ groups at 50 yards with the right ammo and extreme discipline (and a little luck), even with the 4×15 Daisy scope ($4) I put on it as a challenge. The red dot is probably the first problem, but if you make a target that works with it, you may be surprised. I’m thinking along the lines of a 5 MOA (or whatever size the dot is at 50 yards) circle that lines up with the dot precisely. Also, semiauto .22’s often do surprisingly well with high-velocity hollow points — e.g. CCI mini-mag HP, or even the Remington Golden Bullet (which I know is probably the most hated .22 round on the internet). I don’t know why, but hollow points seem to work better in many of the semi’s I’ve played with, and they usually need more than match velocity to work bolt properly, anyway, w/o modification. On the other hand, don’t be too depressed if that is all it will do — a friend of mine got a Ruger 10/22 and was simultaneously delighted with its “fun factor” and appalled at its initial groups. He got it for some kind of steel plate/action shooting, so he may never extract the maximum accuracy from it, but I would be willing to bet there is still potential there.
B.B. , did you ever get a chance to clock the 499 (or anyone else on here)? Just curious if it does in fact shoot harder than advertised. All Daisy’s “spring piston” bb long guns are rated at 350 fps. Thanks, Bradly
Bradly,
My 499 shoots 250 f.p.s.
B.B.
B.B. , Thank You so much! Wow…I was wrong. It doesn’t shoot as hard as the others. Not counting bb pistols, I’ve never had a bb rifle that shoots that low. I think it is a very neat little rifle. Can you load the bb before it is cocked? Thanks again, Bradly
Bradly,
Sure, the BB can be loaded at any time. I load it first, so I can hear it roll down the barrel to the magnetic seat at the bottom. I wouldn’t want to put my ear over the muzzle of a cocked gun.
B.B.
B.B., I know this is a low powered rifle, but what would you say the maxinum plinking range is (Coke Can)? Just wondering how far the BB’s will stay on a “plinking” target. Thanks, Bradly
Bradley,
I would think the 499 would stay on a can out to 60 feet, or so.
B.B.
I think we all agree that the Daisy, or um Avanti 499, is the most accurate BB “long gun” (hate to use the word rifle since it’s a smooth bore), What would you guys suggest to be the most accurate bb pistol? I haven’t shot much new stuff, but from what I’ve read, the Dan Wesson 8″ should rank high.
Bradly,
The most accurate BB pistol I have seen yet is the Makarov CO2 pistol from Umarex.
B.B.
B.B.
You say that one of the Umarex went to places unknown ? The sofa again ?
twotalon
TT,
No, This time I was shooting in the bedroom and there was a backer board behind the trap. That caught the stray BB.
The sofas are both new and shall not get shot.
B.B.
My twin brother Ron (God rest his soul) owned one of these and we had the wooden stock. From what I remember it was more accurate than your experience as we picked off 20 pigeons off a 3rd story peak at about 40 yards with only one reload. And did we get in trouble. But that’s a whole other story.
It’s nice to know that someone else shoots at 15 feet. Maybe I’m a natural bb gun shooter and that Avanti rifle should have been mine all along. Aren’t the Avanti rifle competitions standing? B.B., by the golden age that produced the Crosman M1, you’re not talking about WWII but a time that produced the Crosman replica, right? I thought we were living in the golden age of airguns.
/Dave, you have guessed my range situation exactly. The thing is, I don’t have a car. Having lived all my life in universities, there was never a need. Just think of the money to be saved which can be devoted to airgun pellets, samurai swords and a variety of other things. But when it comes time to visit a shooting range, then I pay the piper. Hence, Slinging Lead, my overweening ambition. /Dave, the cargo pockets are a good idea but my problem is the number of large bulky items that won’t fit into pockets. My best solutions now are to get a cart like some people have or use paracord to tie my bow and arrow cases around me. My 7 foot case for the longbow was my big problem. I couldn’t figure out any way to carry it other than horizontal. So, what do I do when leaving the range but accidentally smack the old Santa Claus gentleman in the butt without realizing it. Naturally, I apologized like a madman, and he was very nice about it.
Interesting that you can stand up to the recoil of a Desert Eagle. Maybe this is a version of a beginner’s luck syndrome like my Dad who hit a bullseye at 25 yards on his first shot with a 1911 and never did it again once he came to understand what was involved. I guess there are different ways to manage recoil. B.B., thanks for letting me know that large caliber handgun recoil will always be a challenge. With the 1911, my shots always start low although I generally flinch them down to the same place with surprising consistency. Then, my groups assume an elliptical shape as I get my follow-through down and the rounds crawl upward, generally ending at the point of aim.
Slinging Lead, yes indeed you have made good sport of my range trips and very entertainingly so. You danced upon the one instance where I was trying to mount a scope on my Anschutz and dropped one of the adjustment screws into the dirt. Then, I was pawing around there frantically for 20 minutes and only found it at the end by luck since it had struck something and caromed away some distance from my bench. And if you missed a comment on the time when a lizard found its way into my shooting cap I would be surprised. Yes, ambitious is the word, but when I lay out over $100 for each range trip what with taxi fares and ammo, I’m going to make it count. It gets worse. With the time required, one has to go to the bathroom. I can’t break down the shooting point and lug my gear around every time that happens, but of course I’m not comfortable leaving thousands of dollars of equipment laying around… So, I walk away and as soon as I lose my line of sight, I sprint for the bathroom. To minimize this, I dehydrate myself. Well, I try to think about this as a sort of reenactment. The Forgotten Soldier writes that you to get a real sense of war memoirs, you don’t want to read while sitting in your armchair with your cigar and a snifter of booze. You should be sleepless, half-starved, and freezing in a cement hole. So, with the Mosin, I might have been on the burning hot steppe of the Russian summer amidst choking clouds of dust… I do enjoy it after a fashion but not too frequently. Airguns are the way to go for regular shooting.
Victor, yes I understand about the scope mount. But here the Russian engineering breaks down a bit. While the Russian mounts were extremely solid, they are way up high–in part to allow one to use the open sights. There was not much I could do. I felt like a lineman being set up by one player to get chopped down by another. I could use my detachable cheek rest I suppose but that is another piece of gear. As for the recoil pad, I was sort of wanting to experience the original rifle. That metal buttplate for destroying the enemy was certainly doing a number on my shoulder. On the other hand, with the way this rifle heats up and recoils, I don’t think I will be shooting more than 40 rounds in a session, so maybe I can get by–especially with the original service load of 150 grains instead of the 192 that I was shooting.
By offhand for pistols, I meant the non-shooting hand, so left hand in my case since I am right handed. I can see how finger control of the shooting hand could offset muzzle flip. But I don’t think I’m at the stage where I can do that. Currently, I apply even pressure front and back. It’s sort of like swimming freestyle where you start your pull by bending from the elbow. Only Mark Spitz and one other guy start by bending their wrist because of their mechanical genius. If I try to differentiate finger pressure on my grip hand, I think it will distract me more than anything. As it turns out, the follow-through which you had emphasized cancels both muzzle flip and heeling the gun. My final target at 25 yards had all my .45 rounds in the black without the usual upward creep. Another goal of this session was to try out the trigger squeeze/sight wobble method with pistols, and it sure worked great.
By the way, I finally got in touch with Derrick about resealing my 747. The anti-spamming code on his blog defeated me; I kept getting kicked out. But somehow my message got through, and like a guardian angel, he appeared on my email. Unfortunately, he’s working like a fiend at two jobs, but with a bit of help, I expect to work my way through his tutorial on resealing this gun.
Matt61
Matt61,
The important point that I wanted to stress, in response to the advice given to you at the range, was to not apply too much pressure with your pinky. That will pull shots downward. Again, it’s all about achieving the Cardinal Rule, and figuring out how best to do that.
Victor
Victor,
just started doing some of your suggestions regarding grip and trigger pull. My trigger pull and grip are absolutely responsible for my pulling the shots off the Bull! Guys, if you have a red dot or even if you don’t, on a pistol, aim at a specific point and pull your trigger. Where does your sight go? Mine was moving to the left. RE-arranging my pinky to a relaxed grip that was tighter against my ring finger solved that problem. Pulling the trigger really hard and my sight moved right. This was with no ammo and nothing firing – well didn’t really want to let fly a .22 LR in the basement here.
Victor, lot of work to do on my trigger technique but we’re getting there!!!!
Fred DPRoNJ
Fred DPRoNJ,
That’s great! Figuring out the cause and effect relationships of specific details is a huge part of what competitive marksmanship is all about. Sounds like your on the right track.
Victor
Matt,
The International BB gun championships are offhand at 5 meters.
Yes, I was referring to the 1970s when these BB guns were made.
B.B.
I gotta get me one of those 499 someday.
I was talking to a friend who just got a pink RedRyder for his wife and after trying it he went out and got a regular one for himself.
BB guns are great. You can shoot it in most backyard, it’s cheap, quiet and doesn’t look treathening to neighbors.
I have a lot of them, I think I have more BB guns than pellet guns.
My newest BB gun is the Steel Force, it’s one FUN rifle! It’s no target rifle but it sure is a fun one.
J-F
J-F, I know what you mean. I also have several. BB guns are kind of funny. I get hit dead on and then once in a while you’ll get a bad flier. Also, there is a certain point (longer range) that the bbs will just not shoot well. They are very hard to put down though. I can’t ever remember taking just one shot with a bb gun. You just got to keep going. What I’m lacking is bb pistols. I have the following Daisys, 2 200s, 2 1200s and a 15XT. But I’d like a Walther PPk, a Makarov (thanks to BB) and maybe one of the cool Dan Wesson revolvers.
I spent a day shooting cans with my son and his cousin with the daisy buck and red ryder. I showed them how to set up their sight picture and go to town. It’s pretty amazing how fast you can sight up a set of cans and knock them down . We ended the day by blowing the targets to pieces by using a scoped crosman 1077.