by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
Part 1
Beretta model 84 FS BB pistol
Today, we’ll look at the velocity of the Beretta model 84 FS BB pistol. We’ll also look at the trigger and the shot count.
Of course, the first step to shoot a CO2 BB pistol like this one is to install a fresh CO2 cartridge. And when you do, never forget to put a drop of Crosman Pellgunoil on the tip before piercing. The oil will be blown through the gun, coating every seal on the inside and sealing it tight for a long time. I found the cartridge sealed immediately after it pierced, so this pistol is conventional in that respect. Remember — once the cartridge is pierced and the gas stops hissing, you don’t want to tighten the screw any more or you’ll soon tear the face seal that the cartridge butts against, creating a leak.
The BB magazine holds 17 BBs comfortably, and 18 can be forced in. I loaded them one at a time, but in this mag, they load easily.
Umarex Precision BBs
Thye first BB I tested was the Umarex Precision BB. In past tests I have found this BB to be one of the 2 top BBs on the market for precision and size uniformity. They tend to be larger in diameter, which means they give the best velocity.
These BBs averaged 368 f.p.s. for 10 shots, but I did notice the gun is very susceptible to velocity dropoff if the shots are fired fast. When I waited at least 10 seconds between shots, the velocity held steady; but if I fired 2 shots quickly, the second one was always much slower. In one test, the first shot went 372 f.p.s. and the next shot…fired a second later…went 358 f.p.s.
The fastest shot in the string went 385 f.p.s. and the slowest went 356 f.p.s., so the spread was 29 f.p.s. However, the first 3 shots on a new cartridge always go much faster than the average. If we eliminate those 3 shots from this string, the average drops to 363 f.p.s., which seems like a more reasonable average.
Daisy Premium Grade BB
Next I tried the Daisy Premium Grade BB that’s the other top BB on the market. These BBs are also very uniform and very consistently sized. Ten of them averaged 357 f.p.s., with a spread from 350 to 373 f.p.s. That’s a 23 foot-second spread.
The Daisy Premium Grade BB is as good as BBs get, unless you opt to buy the special Avanti Precision Ground Shot that are the finest BBs available today. But they only show their advantage when used in the equally superior Daisy Avanti Champion 499 BB gun. If you shoot them in anything else, you’re wasting money as sure as someone who loads target rimfire ammo into a semiauto sporter.
Crosman Copperhead BB
The final BB I tried was the Crosman Copperhead BB. This BB is not as consistent as the other 2 because the diameter varies, causing velocity variations. You probably won’t find any flat spots on these BBs, but the diameter inconsistency puts it into the second rank for both velocity and accuracy.
In the 84 FS, Copperheads averaged 348 f.p.s., but the spread is very revealing. The low was 314 f.p.s., and the high was 375 f.p.s. That makes the spread 61 f.p.s.
After shooting 64 BBs (there were many that didn’t register on the chronograph, plus I filled the magazine with each type of BB and then shot the rest of them without recording the velocity), the next few Daisy BBs went 317, 306, 301 and 294 f.p.s., respectively. So, the liquid CO2 was exhausted at this point, and the gas pressure was dropping.
Shot count for a CO2 cartridge
I continued to shoot the pistol until the blowback no longer worked. That happened at shot 78, so that’s the number of shots you can get from the gun. By that time, the gun is shooting the Daisy BBs in the mid-200s, meaning that about 100 f.p.s. have been lost since the cartridge was fresh.
Blowback
The blowback on this pistol is faster than the blowback on most air pistols, because the slide doesn’t come back as far. When the CO2 cartridge is fresh, you just feel an impulse when the gun fires, but I wouldn’t call it realistic recoil. But as the gas pressure lowers, the slide starts cycling slower and you do feel the recoil.
Trigger
Remember that I told you in Part 1 that the trigger felt strange? I said it felt like a double-action-only trigger instead of the single-action trigger that it is. Well, this time I tested it and proved that’s how it feels. Despite the slide cocking the hammer for each shot, the trigger is still very long and heavy.
The first-stage pull runs about 4 lbs., and stage 2 breaks at 9 lbs., 9 oz. every time. Pull the trigger slowly, though, and stage 1 becomes creepy, plus stage 2 increases by a full pound. This will be an interesting handgun to shoot for accuracy!
Evaluation thus far
I like how the 84 FS holds. It’s small, but not tiny. It fills the hand with its wide grip frame. But that trigger will be something to contend with. The trigger on my Micro Desert Eagle .380 firearm pistol is also DAO and also challenges me when I shoot farther than 20 feet; but it’s smoother near the end of the pull. This trigger stacks up a lot at the end of the pull. We’ll see!
I’m curious about this gun. Is it like the cybergun tanfoglio 1911 where you can take it down like a real gun or is it one of those that no matter how real it feels cannot and should not ever be taken apart? I tend to like a bb pistol I can use for all kinds of drills from firing to take down and cleaning. I like the gun to be a learning tool as well as a fun target shooting gun.
My Polish Radom P-64 9mm Mak is really tough on the DA too and then really light on the SA after the first shot. I have to be careful not to get a double tap inadvertently on the first DA pull. If I don’t keep the pull on the trigger and start to loosen up in preparation for the follow up shot, the follow up comes just from recoil combined with the slight finger pressure that’s still on the trigger ending up with the first shot hitting center of mass at 15 yds, and then the inadvertent second shot hitting either in the throat or head area. But, I shoot it enough to know what to expect so it’s still my carry gun.
/Dave
/Dave,
I looked at that for you. There is a disassembly lever that does work. It’s in the position that all modern Beretta pistols have them, but it’s on the right side of the gun. However, the insides of this BB gun are vastly different than those of a firearm. I would not advise taking it apart, because the parts are not made of steel and there are small springs that can get disconnected and lost.
B.B.
I think that was meant for John….
BB
Sorry off topic I have been trying to find Moly grease and it is very hard to find in Canada but I found this site is this the right stuff http://www.molyslip.com/products/
James,
I checked your link, but didn’t see where it stated how much molly was in their product. If this is for a springer, I suggest ARH, they ship internationally. May take a few weeks, however.
https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42989.htm
If you don’t want to go that route, head to the Honda motorcycle dealer and get a tube of their ‘moly 60.’ Its 60% moly, which is the minimum percentage I would use on a piston gun. Parts counter usually has it in stock.
-h
James,
The percentage of moly is in the name of each product. That’s common in lubricants like moly.
Yes, this stuff looks fine to me.
B.B.
By the way, Pyramyd AIR also sells moly grease:
/product/air-venturi-moly-metal-to-metal-paste-1-oz?a=3498
B.B.
Thanks BB that’s great
Oops, didn’t scroll down far enough!
-h
I have a few questions related to the blow back action. Not on a fire arm but on a bb firing pistol and a airsoft pistol also while I’m thinking about it.
How are they getting the blow back to function?
And it obviously isn’t working off of gun powder (here is the other question).
Since it does works differently does the timing of the blow back action affect the shot any on a bb pistol or airsoft pistol?
And last. So the shot velocity does drop off pretty much if you fast fire. I guess then if a person was target practicing with the gun he should maybe take a little more time between shots if you were looking for the good group then.
And I don’t think I could live with that trigger if I had the gun. I’m picky about my triggers also.
GF1,
Blowback on an airgun works by siphoning some of the CO2 gas back to hit the slide and shove it back. It doesn’t take too much, as the high shot count demonstrates.
No, blowback doesn’t seem to affect the accuracy of the gun, just like recoil of a firearm also doesn’t affect the accuracy, although it does affect the point on impact. Hold the gun different ways on every shot, though, and blowback/recoil will have a large impact.
Yes, if you shoot targets, then you want to pause between shots. This is one of the big objections to CO2 in 10-meter target guns, though they seldom fire fast enough for it to matter.
B.B.
B.B. have you ever listed the avg. diameter of each brand of steel BB? Just wondering. Maybe Edith could get PA to list that. Thank You for explaining the crosman copper bb dia. differences. I’ve always wondered why they never shot as well in our bb guns as the Daisy. I would have never known as I too would look for flat spots and could find none. Bradly
Bradly,
I have listed those sizes in past article. They range from 0.171″ – 0.173″.
B.B.
B.B., I’ve read your blog about 6 years ago, and after much conversation, I ended up getting an RWS 48. It’s since been sold, and I’m back here looking at the site again…wanting to get into a pellet rifle again. 6 years later, is the RWS 48 still your solid recommendation in the .22 cal as far as springers go? My main goal for the rifle is squirrel hunting and some plinking.
At the time when I was reading your blog, you were developing a scope mount specifically for this rifle. Is that available now? And finally, any scope recommendations for this rifle? You can either email me or reply here.
Thanks,
Felipe
Felipe
Scroll down to the bottom of the comments:
/blog/2012/09/things-we-can-learn-from-shooting-firearms/#comments
john
Felipe,
I do still recommend the RWS Diana 48, and I like it in .22 caliber the best.
As for a scope, I need to know more about what you think you want. I would not hesitate to recommend anything by Leapers and their brand, UTG. Some, like the Bug Busters, however, are specialty scopes.
B.B.
Yes, I remember you recommending Leapers back then, too. What about the scope base I mentioned? Is there one out there specifically that mates well with the 48? I seem to remember something about droop compensation?
Felipe,
Yes, most Diana air rifle barrels droop. The 48 is no exception.
Pyramyd AIR sells a droop-compensating base for the 48:
/product/utg-scope-mount-base-fits-rws-diana-48-52-54-460-magnum-with-to5?a=2297
With this base you probably only need a medium-height mount.
B.B.
Thanks, but I see on the link that this base is only for 48’s with the TO5 trigger. Says it won’t fit newer guns with the TO6. Is that correct? Would I need to get the 48 combo that is offered with a base and scope and decide whether or not to replace the scope if it’s not up to snuff?
Felipe,
Yes, sorry about that. Diana redesigned their scope bases so the UTG bases would not fit.
Yes, a combo will work.
B.B.
I don’t want to have to buy the combo (don’t want the included scope) to get a base that works with this new TO6 trigger. Is there a base Pyramydair sells that fits the newer RWS 48 and also compensates for droop?
Felipe,
Yes, there are several. Here are 2 I found by searching the Pyramyd website:
/product/bkl-1-pc-mount-4-long-1-rings-3-8-or-11mm-dovetail-6-base-screws-007?a=2895
/product/bkl-1-pc-mount-4-long-1-rings-3-8-or-11mm-dovetail-007-droop?a=2888
B.B.
What would happen if you shot the .177cal. round lead balls out of a bb pistol or bb rifle?
GF1,
They might get stuck. BBs are 0.171″ to 0.173″ in diameter.
B.B.
Thanks BB.
BB, I think I’ve asked this question before, but I can find it. Between the Morph and the EBOS, which would you say is more accurate? Thanks again, Bradly
Bradly,
Yes, you did ask that question a couple months ago. I researched it by reading both blogs and the EBOS won.
B.B.
Thanks BB. I guess I was just flustered because I couldn’t find it. I went to PA’s page for the Morph, but couldn’t find the “latest” buzz on it. I thought I had asked and I was even thinking you did say EBOS. Oh well, sorry for the trouble. And Thank You, Bradly