by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
Crosman MTR77NP air rifle
Today, I’m testing the Crosman MTR77NP scoped air rifle for accuracy at 25 yards. This is going to be a very different accuracy report, for I have no targets to show you. Well, there is one target, but it wasn’t shot with the test rifle.
What gives?
In the last report, I mentioned that I wanted to mount a different scope on the test rifle and test it at 25 yards. I thought the Bug Buster 3-9x scope would be a good one, and I also shimmed under the rear ring because the rifle was shooting low in the 10-meter test.
I thought the rifle would group about 3 times larger at 25 yards than it had at 10 meters, but I also hoped some pellets might remain tighter than that. What happened, however, was just the reverse. Instead of 3-inch groups I got 5- to 6-inch “patterns.” I won’t call them groups because not all pellets fired even hit the target trap. And when that happens, I stop shooting that particular pellet immediately.
Crosman Premier lites
First up was the pellet I thought had the best chance to do well — the 7.9-grain Crosman Premier. They had done well at 10 meters with just 2 pellets outside the main group. Had they held to my 3X size increase, they would have grouped into about 2.2 inches; but when the third shot landed 6 inches away from shots 1 and 2, and then shot 4 landed 5 inches from that pellet, I stopped shooting.
I checked the scope mount to see that it was still tight. It was, and I’m pretty sure this scope is a good one because it has done well in other tests on other airguns. So, Premier lites are out.
H&N Baracuda Match
Next, I tried some H&N Baracuda Match pellets. But they were no better. They hit the target lower than the Premiers, and 3 shots landed in about a 5-inch pattern. Then, one pellet missed the target trap altogether. I stopped shooting after that shot, but I wasn’t done with this pellet.
I got the Air Venturi Pellet Pen and Seater and deep-seated a couple Premier lites to see what affect that would have. The point of impact changed, but the accuracy didn’t improve. And when the third shot missed the trap, I stopped shooting Baracudas.
RWS Hobby
The next pellet I tried was the RWS Hobby, which gave such a nice, round group at 10 meters. Two shots landed together, and I thought we were on the right road; then the next shot hit about 6 inches away from them. The 4th shot missed the trap altogether, and I stopped shooting that pellet.
RWS Superdome
By now, I was in a quandary. Was it me or the gun or the scope? I went back to 12 feet from the target and confirmed that the scope was still shooting to the same point, then I went back to 25 yards and tried an RWS Superdome. I had confirmed at 12 feet that the Superdome would be on paper at 25 yards and the first shot was. It landed high, but in good enough position to keep shooting. The next shot missed the paper altogether and I don’t know where it went. That was it for Superdomes.
What to do?
By this point I was really shaken. My confidence was ebbing fast and I needed to end this session on a high note. So I grabbed my Beeman R8 Tyrolean and a tin of Air Arms Falcon pellets and shot a final group of 10 at 25 yards. This one turned out good, as I expected it would. That’s where today’s target comes from. It isn’t the best group I’ve shot with the R8, but it’s a darn sight better than I did with the MTR77NP. Ten shots went into 0.41 inches.
I shot this 10-shot group of Air Arms Falcons with my Beeman R8 Tyrolean, just to confirm that I still knew how to shoot. It measures 0.41 inches between the 2 centers farthest apart.
What’s next?
I need some time to think about why this rifle might be performing like it is. If one of you made a report like this to me, I would tell you to check the scope because that sure seems like what it is. But I did check the scope and found no problems. The one thing left to do is to crank the elevation down all the way and all the way to the left and shoot a group. If it tightens up, then it was the scope. If not, it’s either the mounts or the rifle.
A little tip
What I did with the R8 today is a handy tip to remember. Sometimes the problem is you — or you wonder if it might be. Shooting a good group with a rifle of known accuracy is the best way to rule that out.
This is a good airgun article.
“What do you do when your airgun patterns shots rather than groups?”
Taking yourself out of the equation is brilliant. Not only confirms that its not just you having a bad day but restores some shooting confidence.
I don’t think it’s the scope in this instance. B.B. swapped scopes.
The dispersion is too large for parallax or inconsistent cheek weld.
What do you check first before shooting another group?
kevin
I have owned my MTR77 for a couple of years now , and have put around 7,000-8,000 pellets through mine. Initial accuracy was uninspiring. Crosman Premier lights were grouping 2+ inches at 25 yards. I started to use the rifle for snap shooting cans offhand, which it performed admirably for. After many tins of pellets had gone down the barrel, I decided that maybe it was time for a fresh evaluation of the rifle. For the first time since opening the box to this gun (which I bought specifically to use with peep sights) I slapped a Tasco 2.5-10×42 mil-dot ao scope onto the rail. I tried several different pellets that I have found to be consistent over the years and found that I was getting 1″ 5-shot groups at 30 yards with H&N field target trophy pellets. I then switched back to the rifle’s previous favorite, crosman premier hollow points, and found that they were grouping about the same, if not a little bit better.
I then cleaned the barrel with jb bore paste, followed by a bore snake, and shot several more groups, all of which were around 1″ at 30 yards. I then mounted a match grade rear sight, meant for an AR-15, and proceeded to shoot 1″ groups with the cphp’s at the same 30 yards. I did reprofile the front post by turning it down in my drill, which made a HUGE difference in accuracy.
The beauty of the AR sight configuration is that with crosman premier hp’s, I was able to sight for 25 yards and hit within .25″ of my aim point from 19 yards out to 44 yards, which is the where the bulk of my shooting is done. 50 yards targets I hold an inch high for, and 65 yards targets (the limit of my backyard range) require 4″ of hold-over.
I don’t think that my artillery hold improved appreciably during the time I owned this rifle, but my accuracy improved significantly. I attribute this to a long break-in time. The groups now put a smile on my face, and make all the break-in time well worthwhile. This gun has become what I initially hoped it would be. I can pop golf-ball size targets with ease at 30 yards, and baseball-size targets out to 65 yards. That seems pretty significant to me for peep sights on a 7 lb. airgun that shoots at 15 ft/lbs and costs around $150. It simply has no competitors in its class.
I think a lot of the time that to give the cheaper guns a fair review for this blog, maybe a used model should be tested. For example: My Beeman R9 would shoot 0.2-0.4″ groups at 30 yards, right out of the box, and it should for the price. But my cheaper chinese guns that shot 1.5-2″ out of the box will often shoot under an inch after a few tins have gone down the barrel. I know that getting used guns for the tests may not be practical, but it is something that shooters who read this blog should keep in mind. On a cheap gun, the idea of break-in is very real.
Accurate shooting at 10 yards and patterning at 25 yards sounds almost like the results you might get shooting a smoothbore instead of a rifle (thinking back to your smoothbore accuracy tests from a while ago)
meplat,
Good thinking! That had occurred to me, also.
Edith suggested that I clean the barrel. I think that is something that I need to do, and then I can examine the barrel better to see the condition of the rifling.
B.B.
Worth a try, but you shouldn’t have to clean this much from the factory if that is the problem.
Matt61
I am always a fan of calibrating the shooter and eliminating a variable and especially both simultaneously.
seantheaussie,
Thanks! I really needed to establish that it wasn’t me, because it looked like I had forgotten how to shoot for a while.
Another answer I have written this morning makes me wonder whether the pellet might be touching something after leaving the bore. If so, that could cause the phenomenon we are seeing here.
B.B.
Yes, always good to know if you still have what it takes. It doesn’t take many bad shots to have you really wondering.
Matt61
I went back and looked at the fps tests of the different pellets and it looks like the average spread in velocity is close. Power plant is ok then I guess.
And the 10 meter test showed a couple flyer’s in each group of the different pellets you tryed except for the vertical group that the JSB Express Exact pellets shot.
With out seeing the gun I’m going to take a couple of wild guesses. First guess is maybe a piece of lead is stuck in the barrel.
And the second guess which I believe is the problem. I kind of think there is something wrong with the barrel not closing correctly or latching correctly. That is if you really didn’t center the scope before you tryed the 25 yard test.
You didn’t recenter the scope adjustment before you did the 25 yard test? How come? If you didn’t. If you don’t mind me asking.
And now it makes me wonder if the barrel is to big of diameter for the pellets your shooting.
The only things that have changed is the scope and distance you are shooting at.
So you know what erase what I said above. Take the scope off the gun. And open sight shoot the gun at 10 yards and just let the pellets fall were they fall. Make your own aim point without adding a sight. And bench wrest it and see what happens. That will tell if its the gun or the sights.
Ahh. Nothing like a gun mystery for the beginning of the week. And what will happen next?
GF1,
Ahh! If only this rifle HAD open sights! But alas, it doesn’t. That would have been the first thing I would have done.
I think perhaps the pellet might be touching something as it leaves the bore. Like a misaligned baffle, except this rifle doesn’t have baffles.
B.B.
B.B.
This is just a suggestion but I recently watched Paul Capellos review of this rifle and contrary as it may seem he greatly reduced the size of his groups with this rifle by holding the gun tightly instead of using the artillery hold.
He even alternated groups going from the artillery hold one group to a firm grip on the gun the next group and each time the artillery hold created a large group and the firm hold resulted in tight groups.
I don’t know if you tried anything like that but maybe it’s worth a shot.
G&G
G&G,
It sure is! Thanks! I did try just resting the rifle on the bag unsupported, but of course that is going the wrong way.
Thanks!
B.B.
Has this sproinger done as others and rattled itself loose as GF1 queried? Or do you just have to take things in hand as G&G suggested? It could be VERY hold sensitive. I know from my own experience how frustrating that can be.
I am glad to hear it is not just me who has days like that. Like Klentz said, grabbing an old favorite for a reality check helps clear the head.
That is some pretty sad shootin’, even for something from Wang Po Industries. Hey, maybe it is a smooth bore. Did you look?
RR,
I have as many days like this as anyone — I just usually don’t report them. But for some reason I felt it was important to report this just as it happened.
Hopefully we will get to the bottom of this and won’t that be nice?
B.B.
I looked back at the 10 meter groups for reference . I would not have bothered trying this shotgun at 25 yards. It sucks canal water.
twotalon
TT,
Yeah, it didn’t look that good at 10 meters. But I have to test it, because for some people, this will be the only air rifle they own. Or it will be someone’s first rifle. What do they do?
If there is a way to make this rifle work, I want to find it.
B.B.
B.B.
I have a couple Bugbusters (6X) that are in the reject pile from a few years ago. I would try a different scope because I don’t trust them . At the moment, it looks like a tossup between the scope and the rifle. Of course it could be both.
twotalon
TT,
I was afraid someone would suggest that. That’s what I would have said if someone else had told me these results.
Thanks,
B.B.
How reject are those BugBusters?
RR
Pretty reject. Lousy optics, wide crosshairs,, And worst….when opticaly centered are right on the edge of control loss for adjustability. They adjusted OK at first, but went to crap .
twotalon
I was thinking if you had a couple of the same, I might be able to fix up one from the parts if you would not mind parting with them.
Do you happen to have an 18″ or 24″ .25 LW barrel laying around doing nothing?
RR
Sorry, but both scopes have the same problems. Junk.
No .25 of anything . Never went that big on an airgun.
twotalon
My MTR77 likes a firm grip, no artillery hold with this beast, and heavy pellets. It performs well with something like a JSB Diabolo Exact Heavy .177 Cal, 10.34 Grains. I have a Leapers 3-12X44 AO SWAT Compact Accushot Rifle Scope, EZ-TAP, Illuminated Mil-Dot Reticle, 1/4 MOA, 30mm Tube, mounted on it.
At 50 feet, I can get nearly all the pellets within a 2 inch circle. This gun is not a tack driver by any means, but I would think you’d get a lot better groups than what you are getting.
When I got mine, I immediately swabbed the barrel, as I do with all new guns. There was a lot of gunk in there.
chasblock,
THANK YOU!
This is the first reasonable user info I have seen!
So, a firm hold and those pellets? And clean the barrel?
I’m shooting at 75 feet, so my groups should be about 3 inches, but still, that is better than what I got.
Maybe I will try it again.
B.B.
Knowing the Crosman break barrel platform , I’d say it is the lock-up at the breech that is the problem…
Robert,
The breech lockup seems extremely tight. I don’t think it’s a problem with this rifle.
B.B.
Interesting that you blamed the shooter and not the gun… I mean, that you raised a concern that you might not be shooting straight… usually it is the other way around (blame the gun for shooter’s performance).
Fred,
I’m sure you have had days when things didn’t click just right? I wanted to rule that out. And my confidence needed some repair at the end of the session, which I felt the R8 could provide.
B.B.
But you did the right thing with that R8!
I mean… I confess I blamed the gun more than a few times when something wasn’t working and just came back a few days later to solve the problem, whatever it was… almost never I had a second gun I could go for just to check my own performance.
Maybe I should start packing a couple of guns every time I hit the road for my shooting club. Just in case…
Several pellets landing together then the gun throwing pellets wildly (5″-6″ away) is interesting.
I’d suspect that the pellet is being damaged sometimes during firing or loading.
I’d check the muzzle brake first for clipping. I’d check for burrs in the breech. Then I’d clean the barrel using the jb bore paste method. Then I’d check all screws and make sure they were snug. Then I’d check how close I was to the end or my range of adjustment on windage and elevation. If too far I’d dial it/them back to within range. Then I’d start pellet testing all over again.
Really getting to know some people and some guns is harder than others.
kevin
Kevin,
All good suggestions that I have started addressing. I’ll save the results for the next report.
B.B.
Very Interesting:-).. Hi BB. and all.
I’ve been lurking lately, because H&N asked me to test their 10.65 gr. pellets a few months ago… I’m suppose to post my results on forums and my webpage. I’m about done with my report and wondering if I should post it as a very long comment… or if you want it as a guest blog.
I also had to comment on this puzzle… the only thing I can think of that hasn’t been said yet… is to push a pellet down the barrel slowly, and try to feel for a burr…. or “hollow” in the barrel where the pellet might start wobbling… Inspect the pellet for equal riffling or damage.
The most likely thing seems like it’s clipping on the LDC after it leaves the barrel.. can you remove the LDC and try it without it?
Wacky Wayne
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne,
great to hear from you again! Hope all is well and I find it really rewarding that you’ve become another “expert” in the airgun field. So much so that manufacturers are now coming to you for advice and testing! Good on you. I’ll contact you later for advice on planting tomatos for the Spring here in Jersey :).
BB, I feel for you because I’ve been there too many times to count. My last quandary with my FWB 124 was the front sight problem (wrong insert not properly fitting into the sight ring). Anyhow, since you don’t have fixed sights on this rifle, how about a red dot to eliminate the scope as the culprit immediately? My own list of items to confirm include the stock screws to make sure they’re all good and tight as well as inspection of the barrel (should be easily performed since it’s a breakbarrel) to check off when “I” find I can’t hit the broadside of a bull in the butt with a banjo.
It will be very interesting when you get to the bottom of why this rifle isn’t shooting the way it is expected to. Thinking back to my blog on the Crosman Nitro, perhaps the crown is in need of touching up which I don’t expect you to do since you test the rifle out of the box and report on your findings, not on what you had to do to get it to perform decently.
Fred DPRoNJ
Fred,
You are a genius! A red dot to check the scope! Why didn’t I think of that?
I hereby deputize you as the Blog Thinker Extraordinaire!
B.B.
LOL. Thank you, sir.
And where have you been young man?!!
Good to hear from you.
kevin
Hi Kevin, and Fred,
I’ve been really busy launching a new product…It’s a pagoda birdfeeder line. I use to make them years ago, and they sold well at birding specialty shops and nature stores… but it was marginal then, when I had to buy the raw materials and I was selling wholesale at low production levels. In 2006, I started making more money with the raised bed line on Ebay and couldn’t do both at the time..
Now, with the raised bed production at a much larger scale, I have more space and downfall material perfect for making them again.. and RETAIL traffic on the raised bed site that might want to buy a feeder too… perfect storm so to speak.
As far as air guns and Field Target goes, I’ve been shooting about 75% most of last year, with a few matches in the high 90%.. just not often enough:-) .. the good news is.. there is always a next match to do better at… and the most fun is always BSing with the other competitors. Still love to shoot my USFTs for bench rest and Field Target. At 19fpe my favorite pellet for those older HW barrels, is the H&N 10.65 in 4.52.. and for 11.5fpe I like the JSB 7.9 and 8.4 in 4.52 depending on the wind and which batch they came from..
We still shoot year round, here in Ashland, almost every Saturday…. About half my course is under a roof, so rain or shine were fine:-)
Wayne Burns,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Ashland, Or.
Wayne,
Glad to hear that all is going well for you. Lots of pleasant memories from help mg a sick friend to a recliner.
Looking forward to your guest blog.
Bruce
Bruce
It is good to see you writing here again. You were a staple of this blog when I first began reading. It is now past midnight so I can greet you with your trademark salutation. Good Morning Mr B! I hope that all is well with you.
Wayne,
Hey there! Good advice. I would also look at the “chamber”/leade area such as it is, particularly closely. A burr left from bevel/chamfer tool could cause trouble, as could one with no bevel. The pellet would be swaged/shaved/deformed to under bore size when loading. Otherwise, as you suggest, if the bore is smooth and either the same size or progressively smaller toward the muzzle, it should shoot decently at least with some pellets (probably Superdomes :)), as the velocity seems consistent enough.
No way. Are you an official industry pellet tester now?
Matt61
No Biggy Matt,
They approached other FT clubs too, and asked if they would write up reports for some free pellets… I suckered up:-) … way more time involved than the value of the pellets! … but I love to shoot and any excuse will do:-)
Wayne
Wayne,
That’s a good suggestion. I will do it, after I clean the bore.
Good to hear from you, man!
B.B.
Mr. Burns
Let me join the chorus of folks expressing their joy in seeing you around these parts. I know you are busy, and that is good. Just know you are missed. Blessings to you brother.
Another thought. Could the fact that there are things like the plastic fore-end and barrel sleeve attached to the barrel which you would not have on a more traditional styled rifle, have a negative affect on the barrel harmonics? I’m falling back again on my firearms background with guns like the Winchester 94 , and Ruger #1&3″s, where the fore-end and barrel bands fit,and tension DO affect accuracy significantly. Groups at distances beyond rock throwing range, before minor gunsmithing are often similar to what you are experiencing with this air rifle. Or sadly, this may be just the best this airgun will do.
Good point. The Discover and QB78 are reported to have accuracy issues related to the barrel bands, also, aren’t they? I almost always see rifles “walk” shots to one degree or other on hot barrels before tweaking them, usually just removing stock interference. I’m not sure why air rifle would do that (never gets hot) but the ones with barrel bands are reported to, so it does happen sometimes.
BG, I took the little screw out of the barrel band in my old Crosman 160 and it did improve the groups . As for f the firearms ,my 94 would print two different groups until I relieved the barrel bands . Learned that from a old Gun Digest article . The authors of that article also had an 336 Marlin .219 Zipper that they put a heavy barrel on and a good scope and shot some fantastic groups with it.
Robert,
Oh, pray with me that that isn’t the problem! Because if it is, I don’t know what I can do about it.
The rifle FEELS good when it fires, but I know that means very little.
I look at the 10 meter groups and see the fliers and wonder if something really obvious is happening to nudge the pellet off its path. I hope so.
B.B.
I know you’ll figure it out , and I like reading about this . Worst case I suppose, would be a new barrel , but that’s what Crosman’s warranty is for. There’s alot cool factor in this one , so I hope it will work out .
No big shocker here,but I side with Wacky Wayne on this one.Even if only for curiosity sake,I would push a couple pellets down the pipe by hand feeling for a tight spot on the breech end.I wouldn’t know if this model came with a choke,but even without one a tight spot prior to the muzzle throws any opportunity at precision out the window.Fire lapping or hand lapping a barrel is especially hard on a rifle that has given zero promise thusfar but it might help at least quiet the mumbling to one’s self!
This rifle seems to be showing “made in china” which is why I would guess it can’t hit the barn if you were inside the barn. Every report I see on this lowers my opinion of this gun several notches as it constantly fails to perform. At this point I’d say it is not worth the money that Crosman is asking for the gun. A gun that can’t hit a target is totally worthless.
Same song different chorus?
Let’s give it a chance to live before pronouncing it dead.
kevin
I have learned some hard lessons lately about “made in china”. I saw this thing and I was all jazzed about it. But when I started seeing several people review it my opinion was adjusted down lower and lower. Then with a few more experiences with how poor chinese manufacturing really is that knocked my opinion of it even lower when I learned that china is making trash under the Crosman label. Now I see BB saying these things have a hard time hitting a target even with a known good scope. So that tears it for me. The gun just hit trash can status. Only reason I’d buy it is because I am collecting tactical style airguns. It would sit unfired in a rack as a decoration. I might play with it the first day for a few minutes but that is about it.
John: I’ll echo Kevins admonition to give it some room. Also I will give you a couple examples that I own now that are Chinese. First is the AK looking B3-1(?) that I’ve had for years which is an enjoyable 25 yard plinker, that has had no problems. I think Cowboy star dad also has mentioned his on here before. Another is my first Crosman Quest originally in .177 cal which has had over 20,000 shots through it , until I made it into a .22 for my son last summer.It shares a lot of similarities to this one. I only changed the piston seal and lube tuned once. Another is my QB-6 in ,22 which has NO wood or plastic stock and is also a fun much used and loved gun for plinking, and by plinking I mean it will stay in the 1 1/2″ -2″ range at 50 feet on any day. An last but not least is my QB-78 , which I must of really lucked out on because it is my most accurate CO2 gun , and I have had more than just a few. So not all of them are junk, and they are cheap fun. I haven’t got $300 bucks into the lot.
I used to not mind chinese made guns. It wasn’t that long ago that I didn’t care that they were chinese made, but that all changed when I took a nice new chinese made gun out of the box for the very first time and it broke apart in my hands and threw springs in my face. That made me start rethinking where things are made.
It wasn’t long ago I bought a trailer that goes behind my bike. I depend on that for grocery shopping and other load carrying duties. When I got it, the workmanship was so poor that the thing was totally unuseable. No holes lined up. Not one straight bracket on the thing, both rims were egg shaped, both innertubes blown out on the rims….That had me really rethinking where things are made.
Then I started paying attention to where things are made and the quality in them. I watched various video reviews of this gun from various sources. All of them are saying exactly what BB has said. The gun has a hard time hitting a target. Build quality is questionable at best and it is made in china. So I won’t have any more chinese guns here. I’m actually giving away my chinese guns since I can’t beg someone to take them off my hands for a give away price. If you have low quality in your guns that makes them unreliable at best, dangerous at worst in my opinion.
I think pellets flying with a spiral trajectory, the JSB group at 10 meter give me this sensation.
BRGRDS
Pietro
Pietro,
That’s interesting! You are the first person to suggest this, and it could be possible!
I will watch for it.
B.B.
That is a good point about the pellets spiraling.
Could you see the pellets when you shoot the gun? Since all the pellets are doing something weird. It sounds to me like its going to be something to do with the barrel. Unless the picatinny rail is not rigidly mounted or a part of the main frame.
I’ve heard of springers that tolerate a firm hold, but I don’t think I’ve heard of one that prefers the firm hold and can’t shoot with the artillery hold. Why would that be? I wonder if it’s not about the powerplant in this case but the AR style stock. This design is often touted for its unique ergonomics consisting of an in-line stock and pistol grip. Maybe this configuration is doing funky things with the physics of the artillery hold.
Matt61
Matt61,
Over lunch, I asked B.B. if his accuracy problems could be due to the cheaper plastic stock. This doesn’t have the same higher-quality synthetic stock that you’d find on the new Marauder or most high-quality guns. That made me wonder if the type of plastic cannot take the action of the Crosman Nitro Piston. I have no idea if that’s a valid theory, but I thought it was worth mentioning so we turn over every stone.
Edith
Try my sling trick with it once. Put a sling on it and use it to lock onto your arm by wrapping your arm in it and locking the gun firmly into your wrist, elbow, and shoulder. The gun will have a very hard time jumping. The gun will handle as if it was bolted down to the support bag. For some guns this works beautifully. Others totally hate it. With this gun’s miserable performance it couldn’t hurt to try.
Two thoughts.
First, you didn’t post pictures of the targets, so I have to ask, were the shots tumbling at all? That’s the very first thing I would think of when a group opens up more than it should at a longer range.
The other thing is that it doesn’t appear that you reshot a 10 yard group to verify that the groups haven’t simply opened up. My suggestion would be to check the stock. On most springers, you have to check the barrel/receiver, and the receiver/scope, but now maybe the stock has some slop in it. The thing that makes me think this is the fact that people have been having more success with a firmer hold. With what Edith said about the cheap plastic, I would think that it is likely that there is some slop there that is contributing to the problem.
Tim,
No, the shots didn’t appear to tumble. You and so many other readers have given me good ideas about this gun that I am encouraged to take the next step.
Thank you,
B.B.
A hacksaw? (to remove all superficial plastic)
This new Crosman might max its accuracy at 10 yards due to the action does not have enough contact to stock.The shot cycle has more harmonics which are not felt to shooter.
Yes Chris some Firearm rifles get more accuracy from a technic kwon as GLASS BEDDING (the whole body of gun will have %100 contact to its stock exept barrel).But airguns will not benefit,after all early model springers did not have wood forearms just barely enough wood to shoulder the gun and the accuracy was on par with todays high end springers….
BB
I looked back at Part 1 and looked at the picture that shows the gun broke open like it is being cocked and ready to load a pellet and noticed something. I think what I see may have something to do with the possibility of barrel vibration.
Where the barrel pivots and latches there is about an extra 6 inches or more of the stock extending out past that pivot point. Normal designed spring or nitro piston guns don’t have that much over hang of the stock past that pivot point.
I’m going to make a bet this time (I know, I know I should of done learned my lesson about betting) but I really think that is causing problems.
I think John brought up a product in the past that uses rubber-bands or something to reduce vibration.
Well I think the stock is causing more than normal vibration problems.
Oh and I forgot.
Maybe somebody brought this up but the same picture in Part 1 shows that there is no crown or lead in chamfer where you load the pellet. If that is sharp there its got to be shearing the pellet some amount when you load the pellet in the barrel.
GF1,
You are the second person to mention the stock and how it might be affecting things. I sure hope that isn’t the case, because if it is I don’t know how to correct it.
Hopefully I will figure something out.
B.B.
Hey, it’s been a while since this post went up. Have you sorted out the problems?
Have you shot other MTR77s to see if the problem is with the design or just your example? On a different note, Crosman has a de-powered 495 FPS version for the Canadian market.
Wetcoaster,
Welcome to the blog.
No, I haven’t shot the M4 177 again. I’ve been too busy with other blogs.
B.B.
I stumbled on this blog looking for info on MTR77 inconsistency.
I have the same issue with mine. Have been shooting from a table, stock resting on bags.
Have tried several scopes to no avail.
Will try the sling and firm hold suggestions.
If anyone comes up with a reasonable solution, I would like to know it.
Have not tried removing the stock, etc., it was disappointing to see that there
is no parts breakdown diagram, nor parts ordering possibilities like there
is with other Crosman rifles.
Davey
Davey,
Welcome to the blog.
Some airguns just are not made right and I guess that’s true of this one.
B.B.
i am having the same problem with my mtr; found out that the problem is the locking pen in the breech. if the barrel is firmly closed and locked into place you can feel some freeplay in the barrel.
i noticed this when i removed all the plastic, and locked the rifle in a bankscrew… if you pull the barrel up and down you can see it move while the rifle itself stays firmly in place. hope you can understand what i am trying to say, due to my poor english… greetings, peter
After putting on some AR15 iron sights, it looks like the barrel lockup is indeed the problem.
Good, consistent groups at 35 feet, prior to that with a couple of scopes there were many
‘flyers’ about 2 inches away, mostly in the vertical axis. The weaver/picatinny mount is indeed
part of the body of the rifle.
Here is an article about how one guy cured his vertical lockup issue by making another
plunger and using a longer spring:
http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/derricks-xiscobam-b26-2-part-6.html
It makes sense, and seems relevant. Testing with iron sights (one benefit that is possible
with the MTR77) shows the lockup issue. Yes, it does ‘seem’ to have a firm lockup,
but apparently it locks up at different positions vertically.
Regards.
I did find that the screws on the receiver just below the scope mount (2 on
each side) were very loose, but tightening them didn’t help much.
I think that the plastic receiver material is not stiff or strong enough for
consistent accuracy.
Such a disappointment. My Crosman Phantom 1000x is very accurate at
20 to 25 yards, the MTR77 is poor (inconsistent) at even 10 or 15 yards,
2 or 3 inch groupings is common.
Regards.