Legends C96 CO2 BB pistol: Part 4

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

C96 BB pistol
Umarex Legends C96 BB pistol.

Today is a special test of the C96, requested by blog reader RidgeRunner and seconded by several others. You want to see if the pistol will be more accurate with Daisy’s Avanti Precision Ground Shot, which is made expressly for the Avanti Champion 499 BB gun. More accurate than what? More accurate than the best BB tested in Part 3, which turned out to be the Daisy Premium Grade zinc-plated BBs that shot the tightest groups with this pistol?

Velocity first
We know that the Daisy Premium Grade BB averaged 395 f.p.s. with a total velocity spread of 18 f.p.s. (from 386 f.p.s. to 404 f.p.s.). RidgeRunner suspected the Precision Ground Shot would be faster in this pistol because it’s usually slightly larger and also more uniform. So, I first shot it over the chronograph.

Avanti Precision Ground Shot averaged 381 f.p.s. on a fresh CO2 cartridge. The velocity spread was 19 f.p.s., with a low of 371 f.p.s and a high of 390 f.p.s. The spread was 1 f.p.s. larger with this shot than with the Daisy Premium Grade BBs, and the average velocity was 14 f.p.s. slower. So, that part of the theory didn’t test out.

On to the accuracy test
I offered to do a blind test, but RidgeRunner trusted me to try my hardest with each BB: and that’s good because there’s a definite difference in appearance between the Premium Grade BBs and the Precision Ground Shot. The latter are not as shiny and appear more silver than steel in color than the Premium Grade BBs. I would have known which BB I was shooting.

The distance was the same 5 meters that was used for the first test, and I used the back of a chair to steady my hands as I held the pistol, just like I did before. This resulted in a very stable hold for every shot.

Daisy Premium Grade BBs
I shot 2 groups of 10 with each BB. The first group of Daisy Premium Grade BBs measured 1.115 inches between centers. Two BBs landed outside the black bull. The second group measured 0.644 inches between centers. That’s almost half the size of the first group, so you can see how much latittude there is with BBs — even at 5 meters.

C96 CO2 BB pistol Daisy Premium BB first group
Ten Daisy Premium Grade BBs went into this 1.115-inch group at 5 meters.

C96 CO2 BB pistol Daisy Premium BB second group
These 10 Daisy Premium Grade BBs went into a tight 0.644-inch group at 5 meters. This is the second-best group in this series.

Avanti Precision Ground Shot
Now, it’s time to test the Avanti Precision Ground Shot. This shot is ground to work best in the 499 BB gun, only. But you readers wondered if it would also be more accurate in the C96 BB pistol. To test that theory, I shot another 2 groups of 10 shots each at the same 5 meters. The first group measured 0.954 inches between centers. One BB was outside the black, and 2 more were right on the edge.

The second group I shot with this ammunition measured 0.556 inches between centers. It’s the smallest group of this session and would seem to lend credence to the Precision Ground Shot being more accurate than the Daisy Premium Grade BBs. However, the difference in group sizes of the 2 different BBs is not so great as to be overwhelming. Yes, both groups with Precision Ground Shot are tighter than the corresponding 2 groups made with the Daisy Premium Grade BBs, but the differences are not large. I don’t think they justify shooting the Precision Ground Shot in the pistol since they cost roughly 2.5 times more.

C96 CO2 BB pistol Avanti Precision Ground Shot first group
These 10 Daisy Avanti Precision Ground Shot went into a 0.954-inch group at 5 meters.

C96 CO2 BB pistol Avanti Precision Ground Shot second group
These 10 Avanti Precision Ground Shot went into an ultra-tight 0.556-inch group at 5 meters. This is the best group in this series.

Conclusions
The Avanti shot went slower than the Daisy Premium Grade BBs and also varied more. However, the difference wasn’t much in either category.

The Avanti shot also appears to be slightly more accurate than the Daisy Premium Grade BBs. Again, the difference is very small, but it is there.

I’m surprised by these results. I predicted the Avanti shot would be faster because of its slightly larger size, but that it wouldn’t be any more accurate. So, I was wrong on both counts. I don’t think the difference between the two types of ammunition weighs in favor of using the Avanti shot in this gun, but it’s really a call the owner of the gun needs to make.

My thanks to RidgeRunner and others who asked for this test.

41 Responses to “Legends C96 CO2 BB pistol: Part 4”

  • klentz Says:

    B.B.,

    Since this test is about bb’s I can’t help but ask this question that’s bee on my mind for quite awhile…

    IF you had the time to shoot an airgun for fun/relaxation WITHOUT A BLOG INTENDED what would you shoot?

    1-you shot 10 meter pistol for a long time and are a great shot with a pistol would you shoot a favorite pistol at 10 meters?

    2-you shoot a lot of center fires and rim fires at the range testing ammo for accuracy. Would you spend time with one of your own airgun rifles testing pellets you’ve never sent down the bore to determine if you have really found the best pellet for that airgun?

    3-would you take one of your many bigbore airguns to the range and be satisfied just banging a gong at 100 yards with it/them?

    4-Or?

    kevin

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Kevin

      Wow I think you just asked the magic questions. I should ask myself these questions. I need to think about this for a bit.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Kevin,

      I definitely would not bang a gong! But I would like to give your question some thought, because there seems to be a blog in there, somewhere. Not for tomorrow, though, because I have to do the red dot test on the TX 200 so I can mount the See All sight bon the Tx for next week.

      So many things to test. So little time.

      B.B.

    • Matt61 Says:

      That’s a heckuva good question. Right now, my preference is to shoot my IZH61 and the Daisy 747 as soon as Derrick gets it running again. The factor in each case is convenience. I get to maximize my shooting time with minimal hassle compared to the CO2 guns and my B30. So, I’ve wound up where I began.

      Matt61

      • /Dave Says:

        Matt,

        Kind of funny how that happens… My first question to myself when I look in the closet is…. Do I have time to pump up the pcp after I’m done or do I just want to shoot a few and be done? I guess that’s really two questions, but you get my point. I find myself grabbing a low to mid power springer more often than not… Archery seems the same for me. My first experience shooting arrows was with a simple hand made bow and then a recurve when I was a kid. I hunted for years with a compound, but now if I return to bow hunting it’ll be with the recurve I just picked up. No sights, no rests, no complications. Sometimes simpler is easier to enjoy!

        /Dave

  • Gunfun1 Says:

    And BB you are suppose to say that if any body asks for a test of the other brand bb’s in a 499 that they are banned from making comments on the bl…..

    But anyway seriously BB I’m glad you done the test. So now we know more about bb’s. And I wish there were more guns out there like the 499. Is there? And if there is maybe you could put a report together about them.

    And call me bad. But I still have a problem getting myself to accept bb guns as accurate. To me they are more of a fun gun that you can use for things that you don’t normally associate with a pellet gun.

    Show me some pellet guns that can shoot full auto bursts. Are they out there? I want one.

    But on the other hand I saw something over the weekend on TV (I think it was called Future Weapons but I may be wrong) that showed a paintball type composite AR looking gun that loaded aluminum airsoft round balls. Not the bigger paint ball rounds into a hopper on top of the gun like you would a paint ball gun. And it used compressed air as the power source.

    They were using it to rapid fire full automatic at the attacker to inflict pain and disable at closer ranges. And also they would use it to destroy the glass on the side window of a car to gain entry to get access to the person they are trying to apprehend. Man I want one of those so bad. You wouldn’t believe how fast it shot.

    Any way so much to learn and so little time. What will I learn next?

    • John E. Says:

      I watched the same program this weekend and i want one. It reminds me of the midway guns at the fair, you know, the ones that use recycled bb’s that always seem to run out right before you get the target cut out.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        John E.
        That was a cool gun. But I wonder if it will be available for the general public to get. Probably not I bet.

        • John E. Says:

          Considering the program came out 4 or 5 years ago and i haven’t seen it yet i doubt it will ever be available to the public. Of course if you’re in good with your local police force and have pull with the ordinance officer you might try to get one through them. Again though i doubt even that would work. The final avenue would be to see if one of the low volume/high end airgun smiths around might be willing to make a one off but that could get a bit pricey.

    • RidgeRunner Says:

      GF1,
      There are a few full auto pellet guns out there, but they all have their issues. There is the Evanix that BB tested a while back. It used rotary mags, which greatly limited the number of shots and was battery powered. It seems to have disappeared from the market, probably because it was fairly powerful and pretty accurate.

      There is one that I believe is still available that is belt fed. You load the pellets into linked plastic cylinders that apparently also act as the chamber. It uses CO2, nitrogen or compressed air, but you are limited by the pressure, so the velocity is not that great and I understand the belt linkage is fragile. I can see some real possibilities here if the linkage and pressure issues could be overcome. I immediately thought of a replica MG42.

      There is also one that is apparently a prototype that you load the pellet into a small plastic cylinder and then load in a 50 round mag. It seems to be fairly simple and pretty powerful. This one looks promising if you can afford gegobs of the little cylinders. They supply a little catch bag, but I am sure there will be times when some will fly and never be seen again.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        RR
        I almost got that full auto Evanix gun. I didn’t like that it ran on batteries though. And it was expensive to.

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    Thanks BB! The difference is indeed negligible, but you never really know until you try. As far as cost, I will spend a pretty good bit for “the right pellet”, so why not the right BB?

    I just wish someone would build a “top shelf” BB gun. I find it difficult to drop down the bucks for a 499 that is really not much more than a Red Ryder with a decent barrel. I do have to admit that the market is pretty limited for something like that.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      RR,

      There is one other “top shelf” BB gun — the Diana model 30. It is a gallery gun made for carnival shooting galleries. It is affordable, but RWS USA priced it at $1,000 many years ago because they didn’t want to bother importing it. So there are very few of them in the U.S. In Europe, it’s a $250 gun in used condition.

      But it isn’t as accurate as the Daisy 499.

      B.B.

      • RidgeRunner Says:

        believe it or not, while I was writing that this morning I was thinking of that particular rifle and also of taking one of their .22 break barrels and sleeving it with a 499 barrel with a magnet in the breech.

        • RB Says:

          RidgeRunner,

          I have also been thinking about a quality BB gun. Similar to a Red Ryder, higher quality, better barrel, a repeater with adjustable sights. It would make an enjoyable gun for plinking.

          RB

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          RR,

          The Diana 30 I refer to is a ball bearing shooter — not a rifle. It has a bolt to cock it and there are two counters on the left side to count the shots for the operator.

          B.B.

          • Michael Says:

            There is an episode of Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown in which he visits Copenhagen. During the episode he and the chef of the featured restaurant (NOMA, the gourmand consensus world’s greatest restaurant) go to an amusement park, and they do some off-hand shooting of this model at a shooting gallery, probably at 4 or 5 meters. The guns are quite visible, if anyone is interested, and the two guys show their targets to the camera.

            Like many gallery guns, they load from the top through a loading tube. They are cocked with a large handle on top of the gun, similar to most of the WWII round ball springer trainers (CZ, Mars, Haenel, Anschutz, etc.). A cool feature is that they have two shot count meters on them, one that is externally resettable for each session, and one which counts all of the shots between rebuilds.

            Michael

            • Michael Says:

              Oh, incidentally this Diana Model 30 should not be confused with a different, older Diana Model 30 pellet rifle. This other 30 is a single shot under-lever with a tap loading breech. It is like a 3/4 size Hakim.

              Michael

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    GF1,

    You seem to be out of synch with me. I tested a belt-fed full auto pellet rifle in .22 caliber a couple years ago. Did a feature on it for Shotgun News. Otho got his mug in the article.

    Not accurate, but Otho was so impressed he almost bought one. $500 for the gun.

    The only other full auto pellet rifle I have seen, other than the Evanix that is no longer made, is a one-off AR-15 that some guy has been trying to sell for more than a decade. By “sell” I mean sell the idea to a manufacturer. It’s a whole sidebar story to insiders of the airgun industry.

    Full-auto and pellets do not work well together.

    B.B.

    • Michael Says:

      B.B.,

      I suppose the pellet shape, along with the fragility of the skirt, are largely responsible for the absence of full-auto pellet guns.

      As for user-modified to full-auto, I think some of the Evanix and FX rifles are candidates. And of course there is the Daisy Powerline 2003, a pellet pistol that can be converted to full-auto.

      The problem with CO2 full-auto gins is the limits they have because of the cooling effect. 25 BBs go through a full-auto anything awfully fast, and if the manufacturer did actually sell a 50 BB capacity magazine, the darn thing would freeze up somewhere around the 40th BB.

      Michael

      • B.B. Pelletier Says:

        Michael,

        I thought so, too, but the belt-fed gun shot 100 as fast as it could and they didn’t slow down that much. It was a converted paintball gun that had an expansion chamber that might have had something to do with why they got away with that.

        B.B.

        • Michael Says:

          B.B.,

          It seems to me that someone could pretty easily make an HPA full-auto 4.5mm lead round ball rifle. Have an internal, spring-fed, 100 round magazine like the old Benji repeaters, on top of the barrel, an HPA tube under the barrel in tandem with an HPA bottle as a buttstock, just enough blowback to continuously cock the hammer, and presto, Machine Gun Kelly!

          Michael

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Hmm BB I don’t know why I missed it. I was reading the blog back then. Well actually for quite awhile. I just never posted any replies at first.

      Oh you did the article in Shotgun News. But sounds like a interesting gun.

      And I don’t think I would like to load pellets in a belt for a belt fed gun. That sounds like a pain in the butt and time consuming to me. Not my idea of fun.

      • Titus Groan Says:

        Gunfun1
        Beretta still makes the CX4 Storm that is powered by an 88gram co2 bottle. It uses a continuous belt system that holds 30 pellets. Paul Capello tested the Beretta along with a similar model Crosman used to make about 4 years ago. That video may still be available in Pyramyd Air’s archives.
        Ciao
        Titus

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          Titus
          Yep the CX4 Storm is a cool gun. And the price really ain’t that bad for a semi-auto gun. But it still don’t fire full auto. That’s the option I would like from a pellet gun. At least have a switch to go from semi to full auto if you want.

  • Reb Says:

    Hey Ya’ll, I went to dump the trash day before yesterday and on top of the trash was a barrel shroud? “Hmm, those are some nice sights, think I’ll take them home!” Now I see a butt stock so I grab it. In looking at what I have in my hands I realize that the only thing that appears to be missing is the barrel band. I peek in again and dove in when I saw it, wrapped up in packaging tape. When I get home I give it a few drops of Pellgun oil and start strokin’, sounds strong! I load a 7.9 CPHP, slide the barrel shroud on and take aim at my 60 yard offhand target (empty insulator on a telephone pole,about 2.5 ins). First shot, while holding the barrel! Turns out the nut for the screw that clamps the barrel band on was missing. Ten minutes later i had fabricated one from some leftovers and now I have a Very strong Remington Airmaster! This thing sounds almost as strong as my 392, way stronger than any 880 I’ve ever heard or seen. I mounted an old 4×32 Buckhorn scope and sighted in yesterday and got a call from my brother involving multiple pest issues. Between the 392 and the 77 they didn’t stand a chance. 4 sparrows(nesting between the roof and ceiling of the back porch) and 1 extremely arrogant Grackle. Never saw the squirrel but when I do he’s goin’ in the freezer! cant wait to see what this gun’s favorite pellets are. When I shoot the lightly lubed 7.9′s it looks like they’re leaving little chem trails! I’m thinking something heavier like a JSB jumbo or Beeman Kodiak. Any other suggestions to try in this fine dumpster dive find?

    • /Dave Says:

      Treasures in the trash, Reb! I used to be a trashman. Unreal what some folks throw away. New canoe paddles, fishing rod, Jensen coax speakers still in the box, turntables, tools of all kinds, even a dirt bike still in the crate once! I let the shop owner know about the dirt bike…

      /Dave

      • Reb Says:

        Very true! The scope I mentioned was on a 953 that I pulled out of another dumpster about 2 years ago. The rifle had been run over! After I straightened out the sheet metal it was back in working order but missing the rear sight. That’s when I pulled the Pronghorn off my Remington 550-1 to put on the 953If it had been a wooden stock it would’ve been history! Plastic is Not always the Devil!

  • Michael Says:

    B.B.,

    Among BB handguns, how would you rank the following in terms of accuracy only: the C96, SIG Sauer P226 X-Five, SIG Sauer SP 2022, and the non-blowback Umarex Makarov?

    Michael

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Michael,

      That will take me some time to look up. Offhand I’d say it’s between the Mak and the C96.

      B.B.

  • John Says:

    With these types of guns it isn’t accuracy I worry about. Truth be told I’m not much good with a pistol. To me it is getting a fell of a real gun, meaning when I pull the trigger I want to feel that thing recoil. I can hit a target but the target best be around 12 inches around and around 10 feet away.

  • Matt61 Says:

    It appears that the gun is the rate limiting factor and that you need the right bore to take advantage of a bb like this.

    B.B., your explanation of the teeter-totter makes sense, and I can see how it is the structure of the rifle and not how things look from a post sight that determines things. But then what happens when your sight is right in the middle like you see for certain long-eye relief or red dot sights such as my favorite AK, the M10 7.62?

    Speaking of which, Mike, I’m a great fan of the modern AK. It’s my sense that the limitations of the AK design, namely its inaccuracy, are not intrinsic to the design but result from the way it was implemented by Mikael Kalashnikov, namely to maximize reliability with loose parts. John Browning did the same with the design of the 1911. But just as that design is superbly accurate when built for that purpose, perhaps the AK can be as well. With a match barrel, the M10 gets 2MOA with iron sights! The fusion of the AK action and the AR ergonomics is one of the most exciting trends in guns in my opinion.

    I’m deeply involved in watching the film Heat from the ’90s. Very entertaining and there certainly is a lot of hardware. And these characters are really a piece of work. Serenity and peace of mind are obviously not big concerns for them and neither is long term health care.

    Matt61

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Matt,

      It is the barrel that is important — not the entire gun. No rifle I know of has a sight in the middle of its barrel.

      B.B.

  • Titus Groan Says:

    Hello Fellow Airgun Fans
    B.B.
    I just purchased a Hawke Sidewinder Tactical 6.5-20×42 based on your recommendation of the scope you own in 4.5-14×42. I was actually wanting to purchase the 4.5-14×42, but it seems they are quite popular and the two places I deal with were sold out. I thought my Hawke Varmint 4-16×44 was more power then I would ever need, however the clarity of the Sidewinder allows me to determine the type of screw my neighbour used on his fence from 45 meters using the 20 power setting. Yes, it was expensive, but I believe everyone should experience owning at least one good scope in their shooting career if they enjoy scope shooting. The one drawback I noticed, is the length. Mounted on a HW97, it gives me barley enough room to load a pellet. If the 4 inch sunshade is added, well it looks a bit ridiculous. Although showing a gun with the sunshade added to a scope seems to be all the rage on YT these days.
    One question I have concerning my Weihrauch HW 98. It has been quite cold up here in British Columbia and after a half hour of shooting outside, I took the stock off my gun to wipe off the condensation after bringing it inside. I noticed that it only had 3 of the 4 square pins used for holding the spring in the rear of the air tube. It has not shown me any trouble in the 2 years I have owned it from new. Are 4 pins over kill, or are they essential? Thanks
    Ciao
    Titus

    • twotalon Says:

      Titus

      Are these the little pain in the butt little plugs like the R9 has ? If so, it probably don’t matter.

      twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Titus,

      I’m not familiar with the 4 pins you mention. I though the 98 was held together by 2 crosspins.

      If you mean the tabs, like the HW 95 has, then yes, you should have all 4. The gun will hold together with fewer, obviously, but it’s best to have all of them.

      B.B.

      • Titus Groan Says:

        B.B. and Twotalon
        I am sorry for my poor terminology, but yes, I am referring to the 4 tabs. I prefer the threaded method Weihrauch use in their 35,80,77,and 97 models. I haven’t taken my 98, or 85 apart yet but there is a good tutorial on YT by a German guy that goes by the handle 2lbsTrigrPull that features the HW95. I think he may own more Weihrauchs then me ;-). It shows him disassembling and reassembling a number of different Weihrauchs. He speaks excellent English as well.
        Ciao
        Titus

  • Wulfraed Says:

    I believe it was stated (twice) that the expensive BBs were also a hair larger, and that this is why it had been hypothesized that they might shoot faster than the other.

    Question: how much of a MASS difference is there between them? Maybe weigh 10 (at a time) of each brand and come up with an average mass — and from there, using the average velocity, come up with a muzzle energy.

Leave a Reply


9 + = 17

Top-notch springer
Air Arms TX200 air rifle

When it comes to spring-piston air rifles, the Air Arms TX200 Mk III is a favorite of many airgunners, including airgun writer Tom Gaylord. His favorite caliber is .177. While the gun will initially impress you with its beauty and superior craftsmanship, you'll be even more impressed with the incredible accuracy! Tom claims this is "the most accurate spring gun below $3,000." Beech or walnut, left-hand or right-hand stock. Isn't it time you got yours?

All the fun, none of the hassles!
Uzi CO2 BB submachine gun

You've seen tons of movies with guys spraying bullets from their Uzi submachine guns and probably thought it would be a blast. Except for the cost of ammo! You can have all that fun with this Uzi BB submachine gun at just pennies a round. Throw shots downrange for hours on end with all the fun, none of the firearm hassles and a fraction of the cost.

Archives