TX200 Mark III: Part 13

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
Part 12

TX 200 Mark III new rifle
Brand new TX200 Mark III. It’s very similar to my TX; but the checkering is different, and the line of the forearm is more scalloped.

I didn’t plan on this test, but a big goof made during the last test of the red dot sight on the Air Arms TX200 Mark III forced me to rerun the test. The dot sight I used wasn’t anchored and was loose on the rifle at the end of the test. As long as I’m doing this again, I decided to make some lemonade. So, I’m going to show you a quick tip I use to anchor a scope or other optical sight when the mounts I choose have no stop pin built in. I may have covered this in the past, but bear with me as this is important to today’s test.

I want to get this test completed to clear the TX200 Mark III for the next test of the See All Open Sight. It turns out that the See All folks knew all about the problems their sight has with straight-line rifles like the M4, and they cover it in their FAQ section on their website. I didn’t read the FAQs before testing the sight; I just read the owner’s manual, so I missed that. But I thought you should know that they’re aware of the problem.

A quick fix to the scope stop situation
I often have to improvise things, and scope stops can give me problems. Since I have 25+ scopes on as many rifles, with a few extras sitting in the cabinet waiting to be mounted, I often run into a situation where the mounts that fit the scope I want to use (as well as the airgun I’m testing) don’t have the right stops. If the rifle has vertical scope stop holes like those on the TX200, the problem is solved by this quick tip.

The pictures show everything, but here’s what’s happening. A recoil pin is selected to fit in one of the rifle’s vertical scope stop holes. It doesn’t need to be attached to the scope mount — just dropped into the hole. Once it’s in the hole, slide the mount against it and tighten down the mount. As the rifle recoils, the mount tries to slide back, but that only jams it harder against the stop pin.

TX 200 Mark III quick scope stop pin
I used a real scope stop pin, but anything this size will work.

TX 200 Mark III quick scope stop pin in hole
Drop the pin into the vertical scope stop hole on top of the rifle. Yes, this is upside down on purpose. It fits the hole better that way.

TX 200 Mark III mount butted against scope stop pin

Slide the scope mount against the pin and tighten down the mounts. As the rifle recoils, it will just try to slide back and wedge against the pin tighter, so there will be no movement. The UTG Weaver-to-11mm adapter can be seen at the bottom of the mount. It’s the dark thing jammed against the pin.

Now that the fix is in place, we can begin the test. Since the red dot sight was off the rifle, I need to sight-in again. Hopefully, the sight will be pretty close this time! All shooting was from 25 yards with the rifle rested directly on a sandbag.

It took 3 shots to get on target this time. The sight was farther off than I expected.

Baracuda Match
The first pellet I tried was the H&N Baracuda Match. They did well in the last test when the sight wasn’t well anchored, so I figured they would continue to do well today. And they did. Ten shots went into 0.753 inches, and 9 of those went into 0.477 inches. That group is very round and uniform.

TX 200 Mark III Baracuda Match group
Ten in 0.753 inches and 9 in 0.477 inches. The H&N Baracuda Match pellets shot well using a dot sight.

JSB Exact RS
Next up were JSB Exact RS domes. At just 7.33 grains, they’re very light for a rifle having this much power. But they sometimes give surprising accuracy. Not in the TX200, however. The group was open and was the largest of the 4 pellets I tested. Ten RS pellets went into 1.071 inches at 25 yards.

TX 200 Mark III JSB Exact RS group
Ten in 1.071 inches at 25 yards. The JSB Exact RS dome is obviously not the right pellet for the TX200 Mark III.

Crosman Premier 7.9 grains
Then, I tried a group with the Crosman Premier lite. Ten went into 0.641 inches, with 9 making a 0.397-inch group. So, this light pellet that I didn’t know could shoot in the big TX turned in the second best group of the day — besting the Baracuda Match pellets!

TX 200 Mark III Premier lite group
Ten in 0.641 inches at 25 yards, and 9 in 0.397 inches. This is a great group!

Crosman Premier heavy
The last pellet I tried was the 10.5-grain Crosman Premier heavy. I expected them to beat the Premier lites, and that’s how it turned out. Though the group appears larger than the Premier lite group, it isn’t. Ten heavys went into 0.583 inches at 25 yards and this time there were no fliers. The group is elongated but has no one pellet apart from the group.

TX 200 Mark III Premier heavy group
Ten Premier heavys went into 0.583-inches at 25 yards, with no stragglers. This was the best group of the day!

Results
This test was conducted correctly, with the red dot sight anchored firmly to the rifle. I inspected the mounts after the shooting was finished, and the scope stop pin is still holding the rear scope mount firmly. These groups are representative of what I can do with a dot sight on a TX200. But how do they compare with the same rifle when it’s scoped?

With Baracuda Match pellets, the scoped rifle put 10 into 0.417 inches at 25 yards, while the same rifle and pellet made a 10-shot group measuring 0.753 inches with a dot sight. With Premier heavy pellets, the scoped rifle put 10 into 0.333 inches, while the same rifle and pellet made a 0.583-inch 10-shot group using a red dot sight. Clearly, the scoped rifle is more accurate than the same rifle with the red dot, although it’s still very accurate with the dot sight.

The question now is what will happen when I mount the See All Open Sight on this airgun? Can the groups be as small as those made by the red dot sight? Can they be smaller? We’ll find out next week.

85 Responses to “TX200 Mark III: Part 13”

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    Thanks for the scope stop trick and testing of the red dot in a springer. I am a little disappointed to know that scopes fared a little better in the grouoing test but its okay.

    Thanks a lot.

    Manish
    Mumbai
    India

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Mannish,

      I was curious what would happen, too. So this test was as enlightening for me as it was for you.

      B.B.

  • Gunfun1 Says:

    BB
    Oh yes this is the one that I said on Part 12 that you liked to shoot the sight right off of the gun. And then I asked if it really bucked that much.

    Well the stop was the ticket then. No shift now. And nice groups at that. And I guess I should of looked at the groups on Part 12 to compare.

    But ole Gunfun1 is thinking ahead. Are you going to use a stop also when you test the See All sight? And will you use the same mounting device as the red dot you just tested.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      GF1,

      I will use a scope stop, but not the same adapter. I guess I will have to show everyone why that adapter won’t work on the See All sight.

      B.B.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        BB I’m pretty sure I know why it will not work. And I think it was brought up when we talked about the See All sight on the blog the other day.

        I forgot how you mounted the dot sight on the TX. Or maybe you didn’t say. Anyway. But yes go ahead and show why it will not work with the See All sight. It will be one more thing learned.

        And one more thing I’m curious about. I know you said you are color blind. When you look through a dot sight and it has a red or green dot. Does the dot look black to you? If so doesn’t that make it hard for you to use certain types of targets? Hope I didn’t step out of line by asking you that. But I would like to know.

  • goatboy Says:

    I used to use some round bar steel as a stop pin on my HW35 to stop the scope and one piece mounts from creeping back, and that’s because some one had fitted an Ox spring to the rifle. But hey, it worked a treat. I reckoned the long transfer port, the short stroke and the wide piston were the cause of the scope shift as well as the over powered Ox spring, How ever it was still very accurate and the weight of the rifle tamed the felt surge and recoil allowing me to still follow through

    Any way the Ox spring is making a grinding noise at the end of it’s cocking stoke and power has dropped. so its time to put an XS spring in along with a top hat and a slip washer which hopefully should improve things no end. Now i just have to find a way to stop the scope shift on the Webley Hawk Mk III, which alas has no stop pin holes, short of drilling a stop pin hole in the action I’m not sure how to fix this problem. Though i already knew this fix there have been many others you have enlightened me about, so thanks B.B. and keep up the chipper work old sport.

    TTFN

    Best wishes, Wing Commander Sir Nigel Tetlington-Smythe.

    P.S. Today i shall be working on a .22 Mk IV BSA Meteor – shouldn’t that be fun, and I’m tempted to take my red dot sight off my crossbow and see how it fairs on some of my air rifles.

  • GunsmithHunter Says:

    BB
    Very plain and straight forward test. This is just perfect. The way you do these tests makes it is easy for me to have a look when I want to check references for my airgun sport.

    My experience is that a rifle in .177 often has a tiny bit more accuracy than the same rifle in .22, and that a .22 is slightly more accurate than a .25. I usually multiply with a factor of 1,2. I know that TX III is only made in .177 and .22. and not in .25.

    Example:
    Your best 10 shot group with the Air Arms TX III was .333 inches with Crosman Premier Heavy pellets using a scope.
    If the rifle was a .22 the accuracy would probably be: .333 X 1.2 = .400 inches.
    If the rifle was a .25 the accuracy would probably be: .333 X 1.2 X 1.2 = .480 inches.

    Your best 10 shot group with the Air Arms TX III was .583 inches with Crosman Premier Heavy pellets using a red dot sight.
    If the rifle was a .22 the accuracy would probably be: .583 X 1.2 = .700 inches.
    If the rifle was a .25 the accuracy would probably be: .583 X 1.2 X 1.2 = .840 inches.

    I know the 1.2 factor is not very accurate. No barrel is equal, pellets are different, and so are the shooters. The factor of 1.2 was something I figured out myself after testing some Webley rifles many years ago. My test target does unfortunately not exist anymore.

    BB, it would be very interesting if you did the same test with an TX III in a .22 using a scope. I think many readers will find such a topic interesting.

    Eddie :-)

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Eddie,

      You are trying to goad me into testing a .22-caliber TX 200. If the opportunity avails itself, I will certainly take it, but I hate to ask for a .22 TX that I will keep from being sold for many months. So I’m not going to order one, but I will keep my eyes open for one.

      B.B.

  • /Dave Says:

    BB,

    What power did you have the scope 1st on when you ran the scooped test? It looks like some of this test fits in with duskwight’s magnification tests. The magnification gave you some advantage over no magnification in this case.

    /Dave

  • Feinwerk Says:

    B.B.,
    Your results are the same as my experience. You don’t mention the actual size of the dot in your dot sight, but many of them are 5 moa (minutes of angle) in diameter, which is a large blob compared to the fine reticle in a scope set to 6x or more of magnification. I use a small Bushnell dot sight that has a 3 or 3.5 moa dot on my HW P1. Beyond 20 yards, even this size dot starts to cover up too much of the target to maintain the accuracy that a rifle such as the tax can produce. How much of the target bull was covered by the dot in your test?

    Another observation is the lack of dirty rings or dark spots on the circumference of the pellet holes, especially noticeable in the white areas. I think this indicates a nice clean bore. You may remember that in your testing of your BSA Meteor and another older rifle (was it a Falls?), there were noticeable dark rings and regularly spaced dark spots on the outer edges of the holes in the target paper. I was just thinking that such discoloration, when it occurs, especially with accuracy that is worse than it should be, is an indicator that the bore needs cleaning.

  • Korak Says:

    For those having trouble keeping scopes in place. I had a TF89 with just grooves. No stop holes,that I could not keep a scope on. I used a J.D. Jones trick. I added a third set of rings. With the third ring, nothing moved again.

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    Since it wasn’t mentioned, I assume that the dot sight you used in this test is the Tasco Pro Point?

    How many shots has your Tasco Pro Point endured while being mounted on a springer? I’m curious about dot sights holding up on a springer. What’s your experience? Thanks.

    kevin

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Kevin,

      Yes I did use the Tasco Pro Point. I had to, because the mounts were the issue here and they had to be the same in this test as before.

      The Pro Point has been in this test and in a test on a P1 and that may be all. So it has only endured a couple hundred shots at the most.

      I don’t have any experience with dot sights on springers, because I rarely use them.

      B.B.

      • kevin Says:

        B.B.,

        Thanks. Sounds like we’re in the same boat and neither of us has a paddle.

        Anyone else have extensive experience with a dot sight on a springer?

        kevin

  • zimbabwae ed Says:

    One of my gun clubs has a youth day event (twice a year). We use Crosman 1077 pellet rifles for the younger kids. I would like to bring my Daisy m14 for some of the kids to shoot. The length of the stock is too long for this purpose. Has anyone removed the butt plate (without cutting it off)? I want to be able to replace the butplate for adults, without altering the rifle and voiding the warranty. Thanks, Ed

  • Wulfraed Says:

    I want to get this test completed to clear the TX200 Mark III for the next test of the See All Open Sight. It turns out that the See All folks knew all about the problems their sight has with straight-line rifles like the M4, and they cover it in their FAQ section on their website. I didn’t read the FAQs before testing the sight; I just read the owner’s manual, so I missed that. But I thought you should know that they’re aware of the problem.

    I just ordered one via Amazon… And that page shows it with a UTG riser (and the text warns that the riser is NOT included)

    I’m thinking of trying it on the IZH/Baikal MP46m (hope I got the nomenclature correct). I’d bought the package with the pistol case an red-dot… But that over size red-dot is just too much mass placed over the barrel for my taste. If the See-All is at least as precise as a red-dot, it should be much lower weight. Hopefully I won’t need to add a riser to clear the micrometer rear sight line (the See-All likely will block the front blade from view). I can pair the red-dot with my shotgun — it’s a large enough tube (much larger than my 30mm red-dot, and I think the one on my Ruger Mk-II is a mere 1″/25mm tube).

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Wulfraed,

      Details, please.

      B.B.

      • Wulfraed Says:

        Pardon?

        Considering how wordy I tend to be with what are mostly parenthetical comments, I’m not sure what details you are asking for… (and it may be some time for the test to be performed; I’m not paying $15/hour for access to a range for an airgun, but the 44ft basement I hope to turn into a 10m range isn’t yet clear for use).

  • twotalon Says:

    Anybody know how long the breech seal lasts in a S4xx/S5xx ? I noticed that the pellets actually get forced through the seal when loading . Lubing the pellets might make it last longer, but that is still extra wear and tear .
    I plan to get some spare seals for my 500 , and will try Air Venturi first . If I knew the size, I would order a bag of them from Mcmaster-Carr. I don’t want to dig the one that I have out to measure it because if it gets damaged I will be dead in the water.

    twotalon

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      TT
      Are you sure the bolt diameter isn’t made a little bigger than the head and skirt diameter of the pellet.

      I thought the same thing on my FX Monsoon. It has a o-ring in the breech like you just described. But the diameter of the bolt is just a little bigger and the pellet will not contact the o-ring.

      Its that way on my Monsoon anyway. You have your gun in front of you so you know better than me. But I thought I would throw that out there about what I seen with the Monsoon.

      And I did blow the breech o-ring out of mine when I first got it and I was learning the fill pressure of the gun. A pellet got stuck where the barrel transitions from the smooth part of the barrel to were the twist of the rifling starts (FX Smooth Twist barrel). I was trying to see how many shots per fill I could get. I guess it was to low of pressure to get the pellet out of the barrel but when the pellet stopped it blew the air back past the breech and the o-ring was setting on the bolt.

      The Monsoon has a 12 round magazine. And I know now that it will shoot about 5 shots more than 3 magazines. If I try to get through a 4th magazine the bolt will not want to cycle after about 6 shots into the magazine. So I’m happy with the 36 shots from 3 magazines.

      And I did get extra o-rings for the Monsoon. I measured mine when it came out. And I did put the original back in after I measured it. It hasn’t came out again. But my luck if I didn’t get any extras something for sure would happen to the original. And I be in the same boat as you.

      • twotalon Says:

        GF1

        I have been taking note about how it feels when loading, and it is snug. This thing is made as close to zero tolerance as they thought safe to get it. I guess they wanted the pellets to feed as perfectly as possible without having them go through a bunch of gyrations before they are finally seated.
        They do seem to force through the o-ring with some of the pellets. I even chambered an FTS then tried to push it out with a dowel rod, but the skirt will hang up on the 0-ring.

        twotalon

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          TT
          I’m sure your right. And I got thinking about the bolt on the Monsoon. It has a smaller diameter probe on the front of the bolt that will fit inside of the pellet when it pushes the pellet through the magazine. They probably have the bolt and o-ring designed a little looser so it wont create any extra drag so the bolt will cycle semi-automatic easier.

          I usually try to put a couple of drops of lite oil on the bolt of my guns about every tin of pellets I shoot. But I don’t like to oil my pellets. I would rather they be dry. I don’t know if you do it that way but maybe that will help the o-ring survive.

          • twotalon Says:

            GF1

            I might make it a practice to put a drop of Pellgunoil on the end of the bolt once in a while. Have not tried shooting oiled pellets yet. Interesting that the probe tip is flat instead of pointed or rounded. I WILL get some spare seals.

            Finished chrono work with CP . Don’t know if I want to look at any more until I start getting to work on some paper outdoors with some meaningful distance. Saw some odd things happen on different power settings. Information is filed away for future reference if needed.

            Got bored with shooting pellets off the top of the pellet trap. There is a sheet of steel behind it, so there will be no collateral damage. Let’s face it ….how hard is it to hit a .22 pellet with another one at this distance ? BORING!!!!!

            twotalon

            • Gunfun1 Says:

              TT
              We had a little more snow last night. Had about 6″ on the ground and probably got a little over 7″ on the ground now. I shot yesterday from the Breeze-way window and it is heated in there (separate from the house). But it was only like 12 degrees outside yesterday and the cold air was definitely getting inside. Not as bad out today. Its in the mid 20′s. But I’m going out to shoot as soon as I’m done with lunch.

              You got to get that gun and do some outside shooting. Then you wont be bored I hope.

              • twotalon Says:

                GF1

                Ben too cold here to be opening doors or anything else. The starlings have been getting a break. My latest electric bill is about double what it usually is. Cat food scattered on the snow will bring them in. They are really hungry and will take risks to eat anything.

                twotalon

                • Gunfun1 Says:

                  TT
                  Well I’m going out to shoot now. And the starlings are attacking about anything we throw out. Matter of fact I see them out there right now trying to chase the other birds from the bird feeders as usual. They always try to bully the other birds. But I’m sure I will get one of those starlings and that will chase them away for bit. But they will be back.

      • HotLead Says:

        GF1
        If you order a tube extension from FX, you will get 5 – 10 shots extra. This makes it possible for you to shoot your fourth magazine also. The tube extension cost only a few dollars, so I would say it is worth it.

        I would also go for a front mounted gauge assembly on the air tube.

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          HotLead
          That is a good idea. Especially since I can go through 3 magazines pretty quick when I’m plinking. I will have to check into it. Thanks

  • duskwight Says:

    B.B.

    Well, “duskwight’s scope test” has failed on PCP :) I installed the scope on Warne 7.3/22 rings and tried it at 50m. Beautiful picture even @24x, no soap at all, forces exact cheekweld and head positioning every time due to needle-thin output pupil, excellent clicks and repeatability etc. …BUT with a sub-16J PCP it has not enough adjustments for the job.
    Spent today some time to draw and order a new scope rail that compensates for low ballistics, giving scope .85 degs “nod”, hope it’ll arrive in 2 weeks. I could spice speed up, however in C62′s case it means more sound and lots of wasted air at the price of miserable increase in speed which will not correct ballistics for any great value. And this rifle is for competition in “low speed class”
    So I shot just to try it out, with POI turned up only 4 clicks away from scope limit. Using the lowest MilDot “bead” for aiming at the cross I was still able to make some interesting groups at 50. 10 made a single ripped hole. Then again. And again. And then 5 with the same result. Seems I’m getting yet another “boring” rifle, but we’ll see when a new rail arrives.

    duskwight

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Duskwight,

      As you know, I recently discovered that a dot without any magnification also failed to keep up with a scope. So there are things that need to be considered when we go about this testing.

      As for the boring rifle — we should all be so lucky!

      Good work.

      B.B.

      • Bub Says:

        For shooting small holes in paper a red dot would not be my first choice. Where the red dots shine is for rapid target acquisition. Added benefit is they really work great for old guys and gays with declining eye sight. This is not to say you can not shoot accurately with red dots, because you can.

        If you ever have the chance to go to a rimfire steel target shoot, the first thing you will notice is practically every rifle there will have a red dot on it in some form or another.

        • Wulfraed Says:

          for old guys and gays with declining eye sight

          Pardon? I think a spell-checker got you…

          As for red dot… The one on my Ruger target gun has, as I recall, a 3moa dot, a 5moa dot, a cross, and a 3moa dot inside 10moa circle.

          For paper punching at 25-50 yards (I forgot which range I was on last time I shot that one, think it was 50), the circle-dot works pretty well. Similar to using a globe with ring and peep aperture. Even if the dot is obscuring the center of the target, if the bull is sized right, you have nested circles, and an offset circle is somewhat easy to spot.

  • Matt61 Says:

    No surprise to me that red dots don’t measure up to scopes. Most red dots completely cover the point of aim. Also, I can identify with having lots of scopes. My early visions of buying a few scopes and moving them between rifles didn’t work out. It’s too much of a hassle and easier to buy a new scope.

    B.B., interesting point that a scope midway down the barrel will require more adjustment. I’ve never heard of that, but it makes geometric sense. Now I understand striker fired, but you’ve got me wondering about hammer-fired. Isn’t the micro-Desert Eagle a semiauto with a movable slide that recocks the hammer on recoil? In that case how can the trigger cock the hammer? That sounds like a revolver.

    Thanks to /Dave and all for the advice about the bear hear rest and keeping the arrow on the shelf. I have been tilting the bow sideways, but that hasn’t worked reliably. I had not thought of getting a deeper grip on the string with my three-under hold. I thought you wanted a minimal grip for quick release and to save your fingers. But I use a shooting glove, so I will give this a try.

    Gearheads, take note of the ultimate! The Chevy Corvette Stingray 2014. It has the traditional Corvette speed, but it handles like a European car. Also, you can answer a question for me. What is the advantage of having 7 positions for the manual shift as opposed to the usual four (plus reverse)? The shifting is supposed to be exceptionally smooth. Is that it? The smaller divisions between each position, the smoother the shift. So in that case, it wouldn’t be a matter of getting an increased range of shifting but a finer subdivision of what’s there. The problem is not unlike the scene from cult film Spinal Tap where the one band member shows a stereo system with a volume adjustment that goes to 11. This triggers the following exchange.

    Q. Why don’t you just go up to 10?
    A. These go up to 11.

    Finally, I completed my viewing of the 1995 film, Heat. Plenty of action and lead flying around in the final Gotterdamerung. As the good book says, He who lives by the sword will die by the sword. The life choices of some people just leave you shaking your head. But amidst this morality tale, I believe that I have a genuinely original interpretation. In the course of the movie, a cute girl picks up and finds apparent happiness with Robert De Niro, a super hardened, professional criminal. Isn’t she in for a surprise. I got to thinking about the great dangers of romancing strangers. Applied to myself, I could just as well wind up with someone like Wendi Deng who, according to some reports, would push her 80 year old husband,, Rupert Murdoch, into furniture. Yeow. Shooting my airguns at home may be one of the safest activities out there.

    Matt61

    • J-F Says:

      In recent years manual transmissions used to have 5 speeds, where the 4th speed would give a 1:1 gear ratio and the 5th speed would the overdrive. So with more speeds you can get faster acceleration with the lower gears (because you’re just getting more of them) but you can ALSO get more fuel economy because you can get more overdrive gears too!

      The new Corvette is also equipped with cylinder deactivation if I’m not mistaken. So on the highway in 7th gear with only 4 cylinders working you’d get good fuel economy but you’ll still get a very good punch in the lower gears.

      So basically it’s to get more useable power AND “decent” fuel economy (if you can control your right foot, which is pretty hard when you’re driving that kind of car).

      My company car is a 6 speed stick shift, it’s not great IMHO, you can drive it using only 1-3-5 or 2-4-6, they’re so close to each other that it doesn’t really mather and it still around 3000 rpm on the highway so it’s not really useful. They could have used a bit bigger difference between the gears. I feel like I’m driving an 18 wheeler (they usually have 18 speeds, you can listen to them when they’re leaving a street corner, they’ll sometimes shift 3 or 4 gears before crossing the street). I’m sure the Corvette is a lot better made.

      I hope this helps but it’s a bit complicated to explain without a car. The best way would be for you to drive a stick shift with less and with more gear.

      J-F

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        It also helps keep the engine in the powerband easier. That way the RPM doesn’t drop as much at each shift which should keep the vehicle moving smoother.

      • Matt61 Says:

        Thanks, this doesn’t sound amenable to simplification, but it sounds like you really are extending the gear range and not just dividing up what’s there.

        Matt61

        • J-F Says:

          It is better! And does give more range but the whole higher, lower, taller, shorter gear thing is a bit complicated.
          You have the gears in the transmission but also in the differential and they both have to work together to give you a final gear ratio that will change each time you change gears.

          In daily use you can also change the tires to taller ones (bigger overall diameter) and get an effect similar to taller gears (slower acceleration but higher top speed) or go the other way around and have smaller tires that can give you faster acceleration but could also lead to too much power wichwould over power the traction capabilities of the tires and be lost to wheel spin.

          Lots of variables, compromises have to be made in order to get acceleration, top speed (especially in a Corvette) but also manage to get more than 6 miles per gallon.

          J-F

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            J-F
            You forgot one thing about the taller tire (bigger diameter) also. It will give you more roll-out (the vehicle will travel a farther distance with one revolution of the tire than if it had a shorter tire).

            This is one of the old tricks on the old short stroke high revving small blocks of the day.
            Tall tire, Low rear end gear ratio (411 or better- 433, 456, 488 or even 513′s) and a good close ratio Muncie M-22 rock crusher 4 speed. The close ratio transmission had the ratio set for each gear to keep the rpm’s up.

            With the old big blocks you could get away with a higher gear ratio like 331′s, 342 or 373′s and the taller tire and even a automatic trans. or a wide ratio 4spd like the old Borg-Warner T-10′s The big blocks had the torque and could keep the car pulling at the gear shifts.They didn’t have to recover the rpm and get into the power band on the gear shifts like the high winding small blocks did.

            • J-F Says:

              That’s exactly what I didn’t want to get into LOL.
              That gear thing can get mighty complicated very quickly for the non initiated (and sometimes for the initiated too).

              J-F

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                J-f
                Very true. I agree. Ain’t it funny how something seems so simple until you start learning more about it.
                Look at Radio Controlled airplanes. How hard could that be to set one up and fly it?

                And I just always love those people that can make something look so simple when they do it. But you just cant imagine all the work they put into it behind the scenes.

                • Wulfraed Says:

                  Modern digital R/C systems make it child’s play compared to the rigs of the 60s… Now fitting throttle, ailerons, rudder, and elevator — and a few channels left for landing gear, bomb drops, etc. is nothing.

                  In the 60s one might have only had two channels for rudder/elevator — and those were linked to one servo that continuously oscillated. To climb, one increased the oscillation so the elevator spent more time above neutral than below — but this also wobbles the rudder between full left and full right. To descend, one reduced the oscillation so the elevator spent more time below neutral (and also reduced the left/right wobble). For turning: the oscillation is set to spend more time on one side than the other.

                  Basically, to fly “straight” the tail is cycling from: partial left climb to partial left descend to partial right descend to partial right climb.

                  Throttle control? Set the throttle by hand and let the plane loose…

                  • Gunfun1 Says:

                    Wulfraed
                    I was lucky enough to actually see some of the vintage RC planes fly. I’m talking stuff from the early 50′s and on.

                    My dads buddy he grew up with owned a hobby shop. He had so much old stuff that still worked that it wasn’t funny. He practically owned enough vintage planes and equipment that he could of started a museum. He passed away. And what bothers me is I want to know where that all went. Or maybe I don’t want to know. Because if it just got thrown away I would be a very upset person.

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                J-F
                Ain’t it funny how something seems so simple until you start learning more about it. Like Radio Controlled airplanes. How hard could it be to set one up and then fly it?

                Then you have those people that do something and make it look so simple when they do it. But you just can’t imagine all the hard work they do behind the scenes.

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                J-F
                I agree more to it than it seems. And ain’t it funny how something seems simple until you start learning more about it.

                I lust love those people that can do something and make it look so simple. But the thing is you just can’t imagine how much work they do that is not seen.

                • J-F Says:

                  I didn’t to which of your comments I was supposed to reply… I guess that’s the kind of stuff that happens when your on your computer in the middle of the night ;-)

                  It is amasing how something that seems so simple can have a huge amount of work behind it. Look at the common house key. You don’t think about it but just the part that allow you to actually turn the key usually contains over 20 small parts. Not counting the key or the actual dead bolt!

                  I think he best way to illustrate how gears in a car work is to look at gears on a bicycle. When you’re into first gear it’s much easier to start and get up to speed but you quickly reach a point where you’re just gaining any more speed. 10 speed used to be the norm in bikes then they went with 18 and now 21. And the reason we’re not getting more gears is the same, it’s just the bulk, the weigth and the space available.

                  J-F

                  • Gunfun1 Says:

                    J-F
                    Wow that’s weird. My post would disappear last night after I hit the Submit Comment. And yes I did fill out the math question and I did the correct answer. I even went to a different blog topic and came back and they still didn’t post. Hmm who knows.

                    But anyway that is a very good example about gear ratios using the bicycle.

            • Wulfraed Says:

              If you want the nightmare of ratios… Take a look at the Bicentennial edition Dodge Dart… On one side it was supposed to look sporty: Blue/red eagle stripe down the side, with stars behind the door; high back bucket seats with red/white/blue stripes; a Hurst shifter (only lacking the front/rear throw limiters of the competition shifter, but with the spring-loaded 2-3 cross-over). Then, since it is the gas crisis period of the seventies: a 225ci Slant Six (90HP/170ft-lbs) [torque peak was at 1600RPM -- fast idle on a cold day!, HP peak was at 3600RPM], The A-833 Overdrive 4 manual (take the A-833 4-speed made for the muscle cars of 64, flip the 3-4 shift linkage [so "3" is now what had been direct drive "4"], replace 2nd with a ratio between original 2 and 3, replace former 3 [now 4] with a .78 overdrive… Then put a 2.73 rear end on the beast. {or was it .73/2.78}… Anyway, final drive was only 2.13…

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                Wulfraed
                I do not remember hearing anything about that car. But I believe you because it seemed all of the car manufactures were doing something different to catch a person attention and boost sales.

                But I did have a 70 Duster that had the slant six. I believe I had it in about 1982. Well I’m sure you know me by now. It wasn’t stock anymore when I got through with it. It had a Offy 4 barrel intake with a 650cfm square base Holly. A different camshaft and valve springs, and headers. It had the 3 on the tree stick shift and I put a floor shifter in it and some 411 rear-end gears. And had some 30″ tall by 10″ wide slicks on it. And that was just a play car for me at the time. But it ran 12.90′s all day long at 103mph in the quarter mile. My daily driver at that time was a black 72 Olds 442. That had a bored and stroked 11.5 to 1 455 in it. And it didn’t run 12.90′s if you know what I mean.

                • Wulfraed Says:

                  http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2012/04/01/hmn_feature12.html

                  If the one I had (in 80) was a “Lite” it sure didn’t get that fuel mileage. Did need a valve job. #5 cylinder tended to leak oil and foul the plug. Since the 18″ tall Hurst shifter is offset to the left of the transmission hump (the linkage on the A-833 is on the side), a badly fouled plug made itself known by beating the shift knob into my knee.

                  • Gunfun1 Says:

                    Same problem would happen in second gear on 4spd. cars.If you started to spin the tires and back pedal the gas it would knock your knee. We started useing solid motor mounts.

    • Titus Groan Says:

      Hello Fellow Airgunners

      As I mentioned in a comment a few days ago, I purchased a Hawke Sidewinder Tactical 6.5-20×42 scope. I find the mil dot reticle quite exceptional and easy to use. It is so finely etched that it is barely noticeable when you are observing a target without using it to aim. I can see its value as a range finder as well. I have a 7 hector (17 acre) field behind my back yard, and a house about 50 meters further on. For fun, I focused on the chimney and was almost at the infinity focus point. Aiming at a closer power pole still quite distant, it came into sharp focus when the dial read 250 yards. The closest focus is 10 yards, however I am able to have a clear target picture at 7.5 meters ( 8.2 yards) the maximum distance of my indoor range. It is only clear at the 6.5x setting however that is more then enough magnification at such a short distance. I can see how useful it would be for field target shooting. At $500, including taxes, I can honestly admit to a bout of buyers remorse, however that has disappeared with the fun I am having range finding various targets,and shooting on my indoor range. Speaking of which, it looks as though this cold snap we are experiencing up here in beautiful British Columbia, will come to an end tomorrow, bringing temperatures above 0 Celsius (+32 Ferinhite ). That should finally melt Februarys accumulation of snow on my outdoor range. However, I reserve judgement until it actually warms up.
      I usually shoot my air guns between 11pm and 1am. The wife has retired to bed, and the house seems peaceful, quiet, and all mine. Just the right atmosphere for working on trigger control, follow through, or what have you. I also enjoy listening to a variety of music when I practice at this time. For instance, last night I was being entertained by the incomparable Maria Callas singing the aria “Casta Diva” from Vincenzo Bellini’s opera La Norma. I have been told by opera buffs in the know, her high notes can either shatter your teeth, or send you sailing into another dimension. For me, it is the latter. Either way, she was blessed with a voice that is instantly recognizable. She passed away at 57 from a heart attack, but her recorded music has never diminished in popularity some 40 years later. Now that is staying power. The term “prima donna” seems to have been invented for her. Her temper was notorious, and she would throw ash trays or anything else at the hapless man/woman who would dare contradict her firmly held. This behaviour caused her to be banned from some of the worlds leading opera houses, such as the Met in New York, and the famed La Scala in Italy. Behavior not seen in todays world of opera. For an afternoons shooting session I will have a more eclectic selection, such as Pink Floyd, Miles Davis, Frank Zappa, or maybe the Texas swing of Bob Wills, or Asleep At the Wheel. I enjoy GOOD music no matter the genera.
      Matt61
      I was interested in how you described your arrow falling off the rest as you drew it back. This is a problem of technique many archers face at one time or another. It is usually caused by pinching the nock between your fingers as you attempt to draw the string to anchor. Instead, grasp the string lightly in the first joint of your fingers. Use your back muscles as you draw, and your arm muscles to hold the bow steady, always keeping your bow arm relaxed. let the string roll slightly toward the finger tips, being careful not to pinch the nock. This rolling of the string will hold the shaft of the arrow against the rest, or bow handle. This worked for me as I had the same problem early in my career. It can prove to be quite embarrassing on the target line. As a long time target archer once told me, “You can never repair poor technic with the latest do-dad”. I believe this to be true in air gun shooting as well as most other sports. We are always on the lookout for the next great machine that promises instant wash board abs, and chiseled pecs all performed from the convenience of you sofa. A good friend gifted me an excellent book on archery entitled “Winner or Loser” by Shig Honda. He uses the “zen” approach to shooting that I subscribe too. A book offering an opposite point of view is titled “Power Archery” by Dave Keaggy. Although his methods must have merit, as he was able to coach his son to a world championship using his philosophy., It’s just not my cup of tea. I hope this fixes your problem of the arrow falling off the string without adding more confusion. Perfection seems like a long winding road with no end to the journey.
      Ciao
      Titus

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        Titus
        That’s interesting about the music while your shooting. I always have some music playing when I’m shooting. Either rock or country with no preference over the other. About the only time I don’t have music playing is if I’m in the woods hunting.

      • Matt61 Says:

        Titus, I would have thought that music would be distracting, especially from the likes of Maria Callas. On the other hand, it was the practice of the Chinese nobility ca. 500 A.D. to practice archery to the accompaniment of music. This was supposed to be the height of culture, so maybe there is something to this. As for Maria Callas, she sounds like Wendi Deng, but it seems like her own temper caught up with her with a heart attack at 57.

        Thanks for the archery tips. I had not thought at all about how tightly my fingers were gripping the string, so I will look into this.

        Matt61

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Matt
      I don’t know if other people set there dot sights like I do.

      But I set mine so the object I’m shooting at sets on top of the dot. Like a open iron sight. The way I set it is probably the same as setting the See All sight I believe. That way I always can see the target. And I can kind of use the dot for hold over at longer distances if I need to.

      • Matt61 Says:

        Interesting. If it works, that’s all that matters, but I thought red dots were originally designed for quick acquisition by putting the dot right onto the target. That’s how Aimpoint promotes their products anyway.

        Matt61

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          Matt
          I started using dot sights to try to resemble open sight shooting when my eyes started going bad. So I guess that’s how I decided to set my dot sights that way. That’s the way I taught my daughters to shoot dot sights also.

          And yes I guess that is what makes dot sights appealing is the quick sighting capability. But if you think about it, it still works pretty well the same way. Even how I set the dot sights. Once you set a sight and you shoot it for a bit it becomes natural when you use it. You know what your aimpoint is. I shot my first Discovery for about 2 years that way doing pest control with good results.

    • Wulfraed Says:

      B.B., interesting point that a scope midway down the barrel will require more adjustment. I’ve never heard of that, but it makes geometric sense. Now I understand striker fired, but you’ve got me wondering about hammer-fired. Isn’t the micro-Desert Eagle a semiauto with a movable slide that recocks the hammer on recoil? In that case how can the trigger cock the hammer? That sounds like a revolver.

      While I don’t know the mDE operations, there are quite a few variations on trigger linkages.

      The current favorite for duty/defense guns seems to be DAO (double action only). The movement of the slide ONLY ejects the shell and loads the next cartridge. The striker is ONLY controlled by the trigger.

      The 50s to 80s had DA/SA operations (cf: S&W 39/59, 439/459, 4006) in which the trigger operates in single action if the gun has been cocked (these models often have a decocking lever, or the safety also decocks). From the uncocked condition, they provide a double action pull. If one has a misfire, one can use the trigger in double action mode to hit the same cartridge again (whereas a revolver would rotate the misfire out of the path and fire the next round).

      And then there is the 1911 and clones: a single action only model, which requires the action to be cocked first, the trigger does nothing except release the hammer.

      Then their are models that “half cock” the striker, so the trigger only has a short heavy pull to complete the cock/fire motion.

      {I just attended a MI CCW class today — out of 12 students we had one girl with a .22, one .38special revolver, nine 9mm… And me with a .40S&W, prescription shooting glasses with a “distance” prescription so picking up the front sight at anything more than slow fire was almost impossible… That and the hold they insisted upon — I normally use a modified Weaver style, with a finger on front of the trigger guard; they wanted all fingers under the guard and overlapped thumbs}

      • Fred DPRONJ Says:

        Wulfraed,

        If your middle finger is wedged right under the trigger guard, then Massad Ayoob teaches this hold and calls it the Ayoob wedge. He claims the middle finger prevents the barrel from dropping to low on the target. He discusses it in his book Stress fire.

        Fred DPRoNJ

      • Matt61 Says:

        Someone is carrying a .22 as a concealed weapon? Anyway, if seeing the sights is getting you down, maybe you should try the snap shooting methods developed by W.E. Fairbairne and the OSS during WWII. Extend your shooting arm and hold at the low ready at approximately 45 degrees below horizontal. When it’s time to shoot, raise the arm like pump handle until your gun breaks your line of sight with the target, then convulsively squeeze the shot off with your whole hand. I would think for a CCW class that you are more interested in self-defense shooting than target accuracy and these guys certainly knew about self-defense. The method works great with my Walther CP Sport. I haven’t found a range yet (or the guts) to try this method with my 1911.

        Matt61

        • Wulfraed Says:

          Well, .22LR is better than .25ACP or .32ACP (or was, as one could afford enough ammo to get good with it). I suspect I’ll add a small 9mm to the fold — something that fits a Sneaky Pete holster, as the shirt-tails outside the pants look is not me.

          Some of the class members only bought their guns the day before the class (and surprisingly, a Ruger SR9 gave problems midway through — the slide stop lever had a weak spring and started popping up on every shot — so much for reliability in a defense gun). Some seemed to only have one magazine with them (and on a pocket pistol, 6 shots was a hindrance on the firing line).

          The P99 is currently my smallest defense gun (the S&W459 may be a bit smaller in some dimensions, but is very wide in the grip — and I wouldn’t consider it a carry gun unless I can find a #5 screw long enough to hold in the top left grip; previous owner partly stripped the insert when putting wood panels on [the original x59 panels were very thin plastic, x39 wood panels didn't let the screw extend far enough -- and even while my Pachmayr panels are thin, they still don't engage the remaining thread]). The 4006 is strictly a “duty gun” in size.

          Modern ammo makes the 9mm viable vs the older round nose only loads. The class actually suggests that .380ACP/9mm Kurz is viable but I’m not willing to go that far.

          Target accuracy was “keep it on an 8.5×11 sheet of paper”. My first 6 slow-fire shots (they asked us to only load six for the first run) may have been around 3.5-4 inches — where my only aiming point was a thin pen “1″ written on the paper (the second magazine I shot at the paper below, using the loop of the “2″ as a sort of aiming point). By the time we got to the “as fast as possible” I think I was squeezing the trigger if I saw anything like three blurry white dots [remember, my shooting glasses have a distance prescription -- good for optical sights; even in slow fire I can't focus the front sight. With my daily wear glasses, if I turn my head I could use my left eye -- that lens is ground for computer monitor usage which is arms' length; the pistol lens is just about an inch further)])

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Matt,

      The reason the Micro Desert Eagle sound like a revolver to you is you are equating double action with the word revolver. The MDE is pure double action, only there is no cylinder to advance. The slide feeds the next round. So the trigger only operates the hammer, and yes, it works exactly that way.

      B.B.

      • Matt61 Says:

        Yes, I can see from Wulfraed’s comment that there are all sorts of possibilities inside the housing of the gun that I am not aware of. I was judging everything by the operation of the 1911 which, as part of its genius, is one of the simplest of designs.

        Matt61

  • zimbabwae ed Says:

    Mike, I just read your Feb. 8 message. Yes, I do shoot flintlocks, but I have gone back more than you know . There are two half finished replica 14th century “hand gonnes” on my workbench. And when they are finished, I have slings, Roman ballistae, Greek fire, etc on my list. Ed

  • Matt61 Says:

    Okay sportsfans, I’ve really done it this time. I’ve succeeded in breaking my IZH 61. This is proof that even this rifle and Russian guns generally are not really idiot-proof. Peasant-proof maybe, but not idiot-proof. Here’s what happened. I lost count of my shots and recocked the rifle after finishing the five shot clip. I inserted a new one. Then, not thinking clearly, I decided not to recock the rifle. Since the new clip was flush in the magazine well, I didn’t see that it needed to be indexed further, and the rifle was already cocked. So, I just squeezed the trigger thinking that the worst that could happen was a dry fire.

    What did happen was an especially violent sounding dry-fire and a strange smell like burning. Then, the rifle started shooting way off point of aim with a rather rough sound. An inch off point of aim at 5 yards must be something like 50 MOA. Then, the pellets started tearing the paper instead of making neat holes as if they were tumbling.

    How did I screw things up? My guess is that somehow the loading rod of this rifle impacted the unindexed clip and got bent when I dry-fired it. Then the damaged rod inserted pellets incorrectly into the breech, perhaps at an angle, and this causes the aberrant flight path and tumbling.

    Thank goodness Mike Melick is out there to help me deal with this. It goes to show how quickly things can change. You would think with over 100,000 rounds fired that I would have my routines down. But now my empire has collapsed with both my Daisy 747 and the IZH 61, my crown jewel, out for repairs.

    Matt61

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Matt nothing more I hate than when a gun breaks. Hopefully you get it fixed quick and easy.

      That can happen On the FX Monsoon as well. Bend the front of the bolt that loads the pellet. Matter of fact it is in the trouble shooting guide in the manual if it starts shooting bad. I just pray that doesn’t happen. It looks like it would be a pain to take the FX apart to fix something like that.

      But maybe your gun could of loaded two pellets then shot them the next time around. Maybe you can get lucky and the barrel just may need cleaned. Could have lead fouling the rifling if two pellets did manage to go down the barrel at the same time. Probably not but a thought I guess.

    • duskwight Says:

      Matt,

      I can send you a new rod if you like. Just check if this _is_ the rod that causes this type of malfunction.

      duskwight

  • uka Says:

    For the life of me I cannot understand why springers are made with useless dovetails. For all that money and for any money weaver rails should be standard

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      uka,

      Welcome to the blog. To understand why spring rifle have 11mm dovetails instead of Weaver or Picatinny dovetails, you have to appreciate the history of the spring rifle. Until the 1980s spring air rifles were fairly weak. And even today at their most powerful they are still just a fraction as powerful as precharged rifles.

      The makers of spring rifles had a long history of making sporting and target guns. So open sights suited them fine. Some, like the Diana 27, had a raised dovetail to hold a target rear sight, and in the 1970s people started using this base to mounts scopes. That evolved into a real scope base, but unfortunately very few of the airgun manufacturers have any airgunners in the company. So you have the situation of a large (well, in airgun terms, at least) company making a product they don’t use. As long as it “works”, they are satisfied. They don’t appreciate drooping barrels and the need for positive scope stops.

      The great copiers in China were able to knock off the European designs and boost their power, but they also don’t shoot airguns. So now you have a lot more people making products they know very little about.

      Enter Crosman. They have lots of people who do shoot airguns and who understand how they really work. That’s why you see Weaver bases on Benjamin Trail rifles.

      The other will catch up — eventually.

      I have observed that airguns are a very small niche within the shooting sports wherein a relatively small influence can have swift and broad-reaching ramifications. The right things will happen, as long as the consumers are discerning. If we continue to buy air rifles based on their velocity, though, that is what will be made. That’s how it works everywhere in a free enterprise system.

      B.B.

      • GunsmithHunter Says:

        B.B.

        If spring air guns from the factory would be equipped with either Picatinny or Weaver dovetails, this would be an end to the problem with sliding scopes and a final end to the scope stop pins.

        I would also like to note that the German PCP-rifles Röhm Air Hunter and Röhm Air Hunter Carbine are both equipped with Picatinny dovetails.

        The 11 mm dovetails are fine and look great on PCPs and CO2 guns, as well as .22 rimfire guns.

        Personally I prefer the Leupold QR-system. (Quick Release Mounting System) The steel QR mounting system allows you to quickly remove your rifle-/pistolscope for storage and transportation. It cost a few dollars more and it looks nice on the gun, too.

        Eddie

    • Wulfraed Says:

      Historically (from what I’d seen, but not owned), spring guns came with a barrel mounted rear blade sight — which, among other things, avoids any problems of changing PoI as the barrel moved.

      Since airguns weren’t as powerful as .22LR rifles, it may have seemed obvious to the makers duplicating .22 rifle tip-off dovetails would be a quick way to allow scopes… And .22 scopes tended to have parallax fixed in the 50yard range, not the 100-200 yards of a big-bore scope.

  • uka Says:

    Thanks BB for your reply you are an honest guy that does not think you are better then everyone like most gun writers. It is a shame you had to modify the excellent TX 200 the most accurate springer along with the Beeman HW97K. I have a Diana 48 and many years ago got an RWS match site which had a hole on the bottom for the stop screw. the base of the site being aluminum the screw chewed up the hole. Yes Eddie you are right the system you use is very secure and handy

  • NewAirgunner62 Says:

    BB,
    I’ve been blessed to receive a new TX 200 and am about to embark on finding which pellet it likes best. I’ve really enjoyed your series of articles on this rifle, but I haven’t seen any mention of pellet diameter versus accuracy. Can you refer me to an article which covers this or perhaps perform another test?

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      NewAirgunner62,

      I have never tested pellet skirt diameter versus accuracy in a TX 200. But definitely try Crosman Premier heavies in the rifle. Order fast because the boxed one are not being made anymore.

      And welcome to the blog.

      B.B.

      • NewAirgunner62 Says:

        What prompted the question was a test pack of H&N Sport Field Target Pellets in 0.177. There are three tubes each of Field Target Trophies (10.65 gr) and Baracuda Match (8.64 gr) pellets in 4.5, 4.51 and 4.52 HEAD diameter per the specs on the back of the packet. That caused me to wonder about pellet diameter impact on accuracy. Like you, I’m really thrilled by a gun that has repeatable, pin point accuracy and I’m hoping that’s what the TX 200 will deliver. As my name implies, I’m new to the air gunning sport, but can see based upon your great articles what a lot fun this is going to be.

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