by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
AirForce Escape: Part 1
AirForce Escape: Part 2
AirForce Escape: Part 3
AirForce EscapeUL: Part 1
AirForce EscapeUL: Part 2
The AirForce EscapeUL is a lightweight PCP with the Escape powerplant. Everything has been modified to save weight.
I’m still in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, filming segments for this year’s American Airgunner TV show, so today’s report will be short. After I reported the 50-yard accuracy test for the EscapeUL, blog reader Gunfun1 asked me if I had remembered to coat the pellets with Slip 2000 oil that Ton Jones likes. I had to admit that I’d forgotten, so I promised him I would. Last Friday, I went to the range and shot the EscapeUL with just the 2 best pellets — the 43.2-grain Eun Jin pointed pellet that develops the maximum power in the rifle, and the Predator Polymag pellet that was the most accurate on lower power.
Predator Polymag
The first pellet I shot was the Predator Polymag. I did that because the rifle was still set on the same power setting I used in the last test. If you recall, I shot 2 groups of Polymags that time. One was 5 pellets in 0.622 inches at 50 yards. I thought that was phenomenal! The second group of 5 opened up to 1.298 inches, but I shot it in a continuous wind. I just waited for quieter moments, but the wind was always blowing for that group.
Oiling the pellets
I put several drops of the Slip 2000 lube on the foam that JSB packs in the tops of their tins. Predator Polymags are made by JSB, so they always have this foam. Then, I put some pellets on the foam and rolled them around until they were moist to the touch.
The first target I shot looked like it was going to beat my earlier best group; but after 3 shots, the rifle threw the next shot to another location, opening the group much larger. Okay, I thought, maybe I didn’t get the fill pressure just right. I continued shooting until there were 6 shots on this target. The entire group measures 1.545 inches between centers. That isn’t bad; but in light of what I did before with unoiled pellets, I wasn’t happy with it.
Six oiled Predator Polymag pellets made this 1.545-inch group. The first 3 shots were at the upper left.
This group suggested to me that the EscapeUL doesn’t like oiled pellets. It seemed like once the bore was oily, accuracy went south. Of course, I couldn’t let it ride without testing it once more. This time, the pellets were oiled in the same way, but the bore was already oily. I mention that because the next group of 5 wasn’t nearly as good as the first. Five Predator Polymags went into 2.634 inches! And that was what I expected would happen. When I saw the pellets in the previous group opening up, it was something I have seen before. Oiled pellets often do this, in my experience.
Five more oiled Predator Polymag pellets made this 2.634-inch group. From what I’ve seen, this is pretty common with oiled pellets, though sometimes they’ll shoot better than they do when dry.
The wind was starting to pick up, so I switched from Polymags to Eun Jins. This time, I ran the power up as high as it would go and filled the reservoir to 3,000 psi. The last time, I shot 5 dry Eun Jin pellets into a group that measured 1.866 inches at 50 yards. That set the bar for the oiled pellets.
And the challenge was met! I got an almost-identical 1.862-inch, 5-shot group with the oiled Eun Jins. The measurement error is larger than the difference between these 2 groups!
Five oiled heavy Eun Jin pointed pellets went into 1.862 inches at 50 yards. That’s so close to what they did when dry that it’s too close to call.
Sometimes, you win…and other times not
I know this isn’t a huge test with lots of controls and numerous targets. But I didn’t think oiling the pellets was actually going to help. From what I see here, it didn’t. It’s just one extra step for little or no return. I certainly would not oil the Predators, again!
The one advantage I see with oiling is that it makes the pellets load easier. At least it does for the Predators. The Eun Jins load very hard no matter what you do. I had to use the flat side of the screwdriver blade on my pocket knife to get them into the breech — even after oiling!
I doubt I’ll oil pellets for this rifle again.
Thanks BB.
I didn’t think you would come back and test the lube this quick. And I was hoping it would of produced better results for the extra trouble of having to clean the barrel now. Sorry you have to clean the barrel.
And I said it before that I wasn’t crazy about oiling pellets even if it did show better results in accuracy with oiling. I don’t like the mess. And I still wouldn’t oil the pellets if you ended up with good results.
But now; how are you going to clean the barrel. Will you clean it different since there is oil in the bore instead of lead deposits?
I was going to ask this before. What channel is the American Airgunner on? Is it cable? I never watched it believe it or not. And that would be a show that I could watch over and over.
http://www.americanairgunner.com/
It was OK. The competitions were pretty lame. Very little time was devoted to reviews or events. There was very little meat and a lot of fluff. It seemed to be more of an Umarex infomercial than anything else. I have not bothered to watch the reruns.
BB seems to be indicating that they are doing better this season. I certainly do hope so. The kiddies might get all excited about exploding melons and shattering glass in slow motion, but I would rather see the Extreme Bench Rest or Olympic tryouts or tree rat hunting. Show me that airgun making a group at 50 yards any .22lr shooter would be envious of. Give me a little more in depth interviews of the shakers and movers of the airgun world.
I crave knowledge, not marketeering fluff.
Amen to this! Earlier versions of the show were better, much more like Airgun Reporter videos. Get a gun, test it out, let us know what it can and can’t do. Show tips and tricks of the airgunning pasttime. Airgun hunting would be great too as you suggest. I love the youtube videos of guys in England hunting rabbits or dispatching pigeons. I agree the competitions were terrible. If you have to have competitions, bring in experienced airgunners using their own equipment. Watching those folks miss and miss and miss was excruciating to watch.
I never seen the show so I cant comment about the content.
But at least its promoting airgunning. And If there was more shows being made about airgunning it would make me happy. I would rather watch a show about airgunning over a show about deer hunting or such any day. So if anybody out there is listening. I will take all the airgun shows I can get. Start making them please.
Plus one here! I thoroughly enjoy a well executed review,especially the products I’m considering purchasing or could never afford!
Hello GF1
I believe all the previous American Airgunner episodes can be found on Youtube. I have watched a couple of them, and I have to agree with Mike and RidgeRunner concerning the boring shooting contests. Its too bad as I think the rest of the show has soon excellent content, whereas these contests give the show a “reality tv” look, and feel. I do enjoy the season three round table discussions featuring our favourite air gun expert aficionado.
Ciao
Titus
Im going to check it out tonight when I get home from work.
Once again, this is not the original “Mike”.
Mike
Mike
I just posted a reply at the last comment. Notice I didn’t say any names that the comment was directed towards. I just made a comment in general that I would be happy if there was more air gun shows available to watch.
Mike,
Maybe you should change your handle to “Not the original Mike” to avoid confusion 🙂
Edith
GF1,
Actually all I have to do is dry the bore. I probably won’t be testing this barrel again, so the oil will just be shot out inside 20-30 rounds after I dry it.
B.B.
BB
Ok. Well that’s good that you didn’t have to go through any special treatment to get the barrel back in shape.
Good question. How do you clean out your oily bore. Is it as simple as running dry patches through like when you clean a firearm?
Matt61
B.B.
I remember someone mentioning felt cleaning patches the other day. When I feel I need to clean the bore on an airgunI reach for QTips, cut them in half, work them, work them past the transfer port(never on a springer),aim in safe direction and fire(these babies will skewer thick Berber)
I never thought twice about it. Could you and the other readers please weigh in on this? It seems to save a lot of time and potential damage but a valid reason would be enough to end this ritual.
Thank you,
Reb
pellets (oops!)
Reb,
BB said, the cleaning pellets are worthless.
Each one comes out cleaner than the last, as with patches. Works for me!
I think B.B. meant, don’t waste your money on them, a dozen of them might run a nickel.
swabs
I think one concern is that those felt pellets are not supposed to be “shot” through the barrel — you are supposed to push them with a narrow rod. Especially on high power guns.
Having said that, I did start using some… Just to apply some back pressure on my RWS/Diana M54 when I was undoing the lawyer trigger — only way to judge the trigger engagement was to carefully pull it with a cocked action and since the factory shipped with no two-stage transition (it was all long 2nd stage) I had some events wherein it fired on me. A felt pellet embedded into the 30 year old carpet just added padding to the floor.
(I still need to fine-tune the 2nd stage, but I do have a proper two stage trigger now — a long first stage for safety with a sudden 2nd stage stacking and almost glass rod snap)
I dont think it woud be good for a spring gun. To me that woud be like dry firing the gun.
It’s recommended to use two or three felt pellets, to shoot them, I would use five. There about what? a grain, grain and a half? Then your at about 5-7 grains. Or I’ll just shoot a few pellets backward, that way the skirt scoops out any debris. It won’t remove any lead foiling though. Now I have a serious request… can somebody, please, point me to a GUIDE for a ruger airhawk/blackhawk trigger reassemble? Please . The pins popped out when I was taking the housing off. I have a gorgeous clean and lubed gun that I can’t now shoot till this stuff goes back in. I can get about 3/4s of it in, aaaaaauuuuuurg!!! Please help!!
RDNA
All I can say is I hope your joking about shooting a pellet backwards.
I don’t understand, why?
RDNA
If you tryed it and the pellet made it out of the barrel I would say your a lucky person.
It will probably tummble and get stuck in the barrel.
Have you never shot a pellet backwards? They certainly do not tumble or jam, they even fly pretty straight within ten yards, and the expansion is like a pancake even if it hits jello. I’ve shot hundreds of pellets backwards out if several dozen different guns and never once had any kind of problem.
Pcp4me explain what you mean.
While I would no longer do this on purpose, we used to do this to have a hollowpoint. Range was very limited but I cannot remember anyone’s gun jamming,however this was long before barrel accessories such as LDC’s, muzzle brakes or cocking assist aids were so predominant. I had a pellet stuck backwards the other day in my AM77,instead of going for the cleaning rod I just gave it 10 pumps and let ‘er rip
Only time you might have a problem would be a bolt probe that pushes the pellet into the breech, but you will know if your deforming the pellet and jamming it in.
Oh and I made an awesome duct seal trap box, 1×8 board walls, 2×4 back wall, all liquid nailed together, inside is a 28 gauge sheet of galvy wrapped around another 1×8 cut to fit inside, then 6 pugs of seal. The seal is about 5 inches deep. The box is deep enough (10″) to allow another 12 pounds of seal when necessary. So it goes seal, 1″ pine, sheet metal, 2×4. I don’t think any thing from a .22 long and down’ll be gettin through there, if I can get my gun back together, I could test it out….. : (
The design is laid out in a blog article B.B has written, look up how to build a pellet trap and you’ll see it, took about an hour to build a really nice box (less if you screw it together but heavy duty liquid nails keeps from spitting the wood) or use the pvc and just throw it together. 20$ worth of duct seal, a 5$ 1’x1′ piece of metal and I now have a snazzy looking silent trap that will virtually last forever! Thanks B.B.!
RDNA
Was on the way home from work.Couldn’t reply.
But yep I sure have shot a couple pellets that got loaded backwards. Not on purpose though. And I have talked to a few people that said they did. Some had the results you had and some had the results I had.
All I know is the last time it happened I realized it was loaded backwards and just like the first time it happened to me I shot it. The first time it happened it shot out of the barrel and I was out in the woods hunting. No big deal. Just scared the critters away when the pellet ricochet off a tree that the pellet tryed to attack.
But the second time was the same scenario as above. Different day though. So I fired the gun figuring the pellet would shoot out the same as the first time it happened. Nope the pellet got jammed half way down the barrel. I used a wooden dowel rod and was able to knock the pellet back out through the breech. When I looked at the pellet it looked like the pellet started to roll over and about half of the skirt folded back under the pellet as it was trying to make its way down the barrel. Yep it was wedged in the barrel good and tight. I was afraid that it or I would mess up the rifling in the barrel when I was getting it out. But the gun shot good so I was happy.
All I know is it messed up a good day of shooting for me the second time it happened. So all I can say is I got a good assortment of tools with me when I go somewhere to shoot. And I bring at least 2 to 3 guns with me for just in case purposes. And Just me but I won’t shoot a pellet that I load backwards anymore. It’s getting pushed out.
Morning gunfun1, I was thinkin about how some might have pellet failures when loading backwards and some don’t — powerful pcps. They probably have the ability to want to expand the skirt upon firing so it starts folding right from the go. Just a guess because all my dozens of guns that did successfully fire pellets, none were a powerful pcp.
RDNA
Whats up. And yep I bet your right about PCP’s having a chance to jam a backwards pellet. But the gun that it happened to with me was my Diana 54 Air King. Its a side lever springer. It doesn’t have a bolt; you load the pellet right into the barrel. And they are little tricky to load. You more or less load by feel. Then push the pellet in with your thumb.
But I guess you were loading backwards to simulate a hollow point? Here is one of the fairly recent hollow point pellets that came out. And I do call it a true hollow point compared to others out there. It comes in .177, .22 and .25 cal. And I have tryed the .177 and .25 cal. ones. They are fair out to about 25 yards. But they sure are fun to pop holes in mud. Take a look.
/product/skenco-ultrashock-177-cal-9-57-grains-hollowpoint-150ct?p=898
Reb,
It sounds like a good idea to me. Of course you want to point the gun in a safe direction when you do it.
B.B.
Reb, I too use Q tips (or whatever brand). Sometimes I cut them down shorter and use more than one at a time. Also remember, they only are good for .177 cal. as they are too little for 22 cal. Bradly
I use a whole one on my 392.
Thanks, it does save a lot of time, they never make it all the way to the pellet trap but it’s funny watching them try.
Make sure they clear any baffling or you might end up with some issues.
No truly shrouded barrels(yet).
I cant think this to count for testing oiled pellets, not to go all 880 on you but…….. When people oil their pellets, they are always cleaned, dried, probably cleaned again, then very little oiled by rolling or tumbling, then allowed to dry with the oil on. This creates a very. Very light coat that is almost unnoticable to the touch, but feel like pba ammo. Just wetted pellets will not be accurate because the oil flows and collects and will be thrown off the skirt of the pellet giving an uneven weight and spin because the oil cannot come off the skirt perfectly even. This is the correct process and “pellet oilers” can be very anal…. sorry to dash the test but but at least Im being nice about it…. 🙂
Howdy RD & Reb, go 880, cute, a new catch phrase.
Reb, I use a Hoppes Bore Snake of the correct caliber. Easy Squeezy.
Shoot/Ride
Beaz
Had to let the 880 go, the little brother loved the feel and report of the gun too much! Let him have it for $30. By the time I got done with it I had the barrel sleeved with rubber vacuum hose and shimmed the receiver/buttstock connection with lead shims pounded out & trimmed to fit. Alas, I am now in the market for another project/clunker, & a chrony!
I coat my pellets in a dry powder(dry graphite and Molybdenum combined). It is sold at a major hobby supply store. I’m not sure if it adds any speed,or if actually improves accuracy. But my groups stay tight. I shoot an equivalent pellet to the Polymag.
Jeff Hunter,
B.B. wrote a couple blogs that included info about moly. You can read them here:
http://airgun-academy.blogspot.com/2005/03/airgun-lubes-good-bad-and-ugly.html
/blog/2012/02/how-to-lubricate-your-spring-piston-airgun/
Edith
OK. I’ve read both blogs.
I will first tell you what and how I “tuned” my very first air rifle (Gamo “Silent Cat 1250”).
I built a spring compressor.
Disassembled weapon.
Cleaned all factory grease with synthetic gun cleaner.
Filed all rough edges with a file.
Polished chamber with Molly coated on a cotton cloth wrapped on a plastic rod(brunishing?).
Made a grease from professional grade di-electric silicone grease and moly comined.
Lightly applyed grease to main spring,piston head and mics parts.
Made a spring shim to fit inside piston from coke bottle.
Replaced trigger with a “GRT-4”.
Replaced stock scope.
After approximately a 4,000 round shot cycle. I disassembled the weapon. The piston bore was super smooth with no scoring. I had been told the silicone grease would break down into sand. I can not see or notice any metal damage from it. I read as much as I could before doing the tune to learn as much info as I could. Being so many different opinions on the subject. I went with Molly and silicone. Its served me well.
With this said. Has anyone here had damage occur from silicone and moly?
JH
Inside a spring gun I would say what you did is great. But I thought we were talking about lubing the pellets and well I guess that would lube the barrel.
But Yes I have used both of the lubes you just said above in various things with good results.
Jeff,
I know that moly is a big seller for firearms, but airguns have a much smaller following. Because of that, there’s not much data regarding the benefits or the effect on different powerplants.
Thanks,
Edith
No. Thank you guys. Y’all are the “go to” for info. And its free.
Edith,
I use moly paste on all the sliding parts of my air guns. Including the trigger sear, and springs on springers. A very little bit goes a long way. And it does help as it greatly reduces friction.
But I do not want it in my barrels or on my pellets. Not sure what the results would be, and not wanting to take a chance. i have no desire to replace a barrel if results were not favorable.
Jeff,
I think silicone lubricant is different than silicon sand.
B.B.
Do happen to know at all about ruger (umarex) air/blackhawk triggers? Don’t know how the safety and sear is sequenced to go back in? never took one apart and didn’t mean to now.
Ha! Just kidding, got it together fine. Man that little sear spring can be a pain in the buttocks! Triggers are a bit intimidating, you know there’s a couple tough little doo-hickeys and that if you don’t do it right… well your in for a snafu. Shimmed the trigger, cleaned, minor deburr, lubed and all done, first FULL disassemble lube’n’tune. Complete. And I only cried for mommy once! Im proud of myself.
Actually, both are great lubricants. So when you combine them, why would/should they do any thing but be be a better lubricant? But they sell moly pastes which would eliminate the step of making your own paste by combining the two.
I am pretty sure Brownell’s or Midway would have them, as well as most hardware stores.
I evaluate pellets per tin. Some always appear to be clean & properly lubed upon opening, while others I deem worthy of washing & recoating with a light weight oil to prevent oxidization, the lightest oil I’ve found so far is Cobra Snake Oil, marketed for paintball.
Well, some times it works and some times it don’t. You don’t know until you try.
twotalon
This is waaaaay off topic, but what’s the deal with the Top Gun Madness? The format makes no sense and when I bring up the page the odd numbered guns have already been ‘selected’. Are we to pick one in each bracket?
dangerdongle,
I sent your comment to Pyramyd AIR, and they say they’ve removed the pre-selection of radio buttons. Now, all guns should be unselected. If not, go back in an hour or so.
I think they wanted to make sure you selected a gun in each bracket, and they did that by pre-selecting one in each so you wouldn’t mistakenly leave one bracket unselected.
Edith
“I think they wanted to make sure you selected a gun in each bracket, and they did that by pre-selecting one in each so you wouldn’t mistakenly leave one bracket unselected”
Try saying THAT three times fast!
Thank you Edith!!
That quote really is a grammatical masterpiece..
I think I will just stay with my dry and clean pellets.
And my dad use to always tell me to clean the powder burning guns after each use. Alot of people here shoot firearms. And I’m sure they have seen different results from different ammo as far as cleanliness of the barrel in firearms.
We was talking the other day about that bicycle lubricating wax that drys to powdery film. I decided not to try it either. Not to say its a bad thing. I just dont want the extra hassle of doing something else to the process of shooting the gun. I always said “simple but effective”. Even when I do my other hobby’s.
I have had pretty good luck not oiling pellets. And I usually don’t clean my barrels on my airguns. I will clean the barrel if I start seeing a flyer from a pellet that I use that is known to shoot without the flyer.
When I changed barrels a while back on my Talon SS from the .177 to the .25 cal. barrel. I looked through the .177 barrel into the sun light and that barrel was sparkly clean. And I would have to say it had around 1500 or more pellets shot through it without any barrel cleaning.
I think pellet oiling and cleaning is just one those things that go by peoples preference. And maybe there is a right combination of pellet, lubricant, velocity, and barrel twist that could optimise performance of the accuracy of the gun. But for me if I can just go and by a pellet that will shoot in my gun and be accurate enough for the shooting I do with out all the extra work then I’m more happy. That’s just one less variable that I have to worry about in my shooting process. And more time to shoot.
I’ll stick with dry pellets too for sure convenience.
Matt61
You and every 3 and 4 position airgunner I have talked to. I have not cleaned my challenger 2009 since the first year, after talking to my competitors. It sat on my workbench for three months this winter, and I just started practicing for this summer’s Veteran’s Games,, and it’s still more accurate than I am. I’m averaging 95 and I usually know what I did wrong on the five that don’t take out the center dot.
Ed
Gunfun!,I’m with ya on simple.I don’t want any extra effort when it comes to my airguns.Pumping is enough effort for me one a hot sunny day and lubing pellets may be OK but if I have to do that for a good pattern I’ll look for another brand.I can keep a one inch pattern at 150 yards and that is good enough for squirrel hunting.About cleaning airgun barrels,I cleaned my Mrod 22 cal.this past fall after only shooting all summer and I can say how many rounds it ate,but it took 15 patches before it came clean! I only shot JSB’s.Seems to me that much build up can’t be good? Any after cleaning I did not notice much of a improvement good or bad.But at least I feel better its clean inside.I have used those cleaning pellets in my R-1 and always used no less then three in one shot for fear of doing damage if only using one.They were free so what the heck.But I don’t use them in anything with a baffle fearing they could get hung up or sideways or what ever. I don’t thing it to be good for the gun.
steve
Yep the less I have to do to shoot the better. I think I spend to much time testing sometimes. But it does pay off when you get a gun shooting nice.
Off subject!
I’ve found a Gamo “Big Cat 1200” that I can buy for $40 (have to drive about fifty miles).
I notice some of these are “IGT” in the different advertisements. I already own a Gamo 1200.
How do I tell if it is or is not a “IGT”? I guess I’m just looking for someone to tell me to buy it.
Jeff,
That’s easy: Gamo doesn’t make the Big Cat 1200 with an IGT (gas spring):
http://www.gamousa.com/search.aspx?search=igt
Also, the IGT logo should be on the box. I presume it’s also on the gun.
Edith
I say go for it, can’t go wrong for 40 bucks, especially when those gamos sell for around 200. If its crap at least you have a parts gun for seals and etc.. I don’t usually care to oil and clean any pellets but the crosman ultra mags I got last were filthy, made my fingers black from 2 or 3 shots. They definitely needed it, I found the copper kodiaks did better with it, but the RWS super mags, HN baracuda extreme, and premier hp all do fine without it.
If I were you and had $50 and a bicycle I would set out today. I can hear it now- “Daddy, Why is that man riding his bicycle with a gun on his back- Welcome to Texas, Sweetheart!”
Speaking of shopping in Texas………
https://www.youtube.com/embed/Vt7FDTpzGvo?rel=0
kevin
Kevin,
Love the video! Have passed it along to my brother.
Edith
Edith,
Think I saw you in the background of that video with a Wilson CQB.
kevin
Thanks Kevin, A friend posted this on FB and although you or I may have no idea, a rather large percentage of the population in my area are armed most of the time.
Best video I seen all day. I replayed it at least 3 times in a row.
Ridgerunner, your theory about expensive ammo reminds me of my aunt who claimed that she would never look at prices when shopping for food since she wanted only quality. If any rifle qualified for that treatment, it would be my Anschutz. But the Wolf match seems to shoot to the rifle’s potential, and given how picky rimfire guns can be with their ammo, I’ll stick with that.
Joe, yes, volunteer your thoughts. No better place than the blog for that. I’m reminded of one of my favorite lines from The Hobbit which, unfortunately, was not produced in the recent movie. Smaug the dragon says: “Before I was young and weak. Now, I am old. Old and strong.”
I think it is an interesting question why most of the blog readers seem to be older when probably most of the population seems to associate airgunning with younger people. That is probably because of a lack of appreciation for how serious airgunning can be. But that wouldn’t explain the predominance of older people. Is it a matter of being retired? Or maybe my assumptions about age are wrong, and the readership is younger than I had supposed. There was a very interesting person who posted a long time ago who went by the name of 14 in Florida. But he didn’t sound like any 14 year old I’ve ever met but a mature and well-spoken adult. Interesting.
Matt61
We have quite a few young airgunners at our club. Probably over a hundred when you add all the teams together. Trouble is that the high school teams are all rimfire,, because that’s where the scholarships are,, so they “graduate to 22s,, get their college partially paid for shooting,, then,, like my coaches girl,, say they’ll never shoot either again.
The ones that keep shooting in matches may well come back to airguns,,, the ammo is so much cheaper and easier to get.
Ed
What are them new barrel cleaners called. Barrel snakes? I wonder how good they work?
When I got my Diana 54 Airking I got one of those cleaning rods with it that has different tips you can screw on the end of it.
I use the brass wire brush tip thats about 2 inches long on my air guns with steel barrels. The rod and brush spin with the rifling. And I use it to free the barrel of lead deposits if I see the accuracy of the fgun change. I dont even run any felt pad after that. I just go shoot and the accuracy will usually come back within a few shots.
So thats why I wonder how good the snakes are. If Im calling them the right name.
They are called bore snakes. They work great on break barrels. But some fixed barrel guns with short breeches you can’t feed them through from either end because the weight on the end is too long to get into the short breech area.
Guess you could shorten the weight, have not tried that.
Pcp4me
I left a reply for you above when you were talking about pellet tumble. Explain your comment if you will. There was no room left up there.
I have a question, and I hope it won’t be considered too stupid. I was talking to a tech who thinks it might be possible, so I’ll go ahead and ask.
Do you think it would be possible to hook up a continuous remote air source to the inlet on the Spin Loc tank?
The idea would be to increase shot count, without affecting anything else.
Ninja Paintball (for example) makes a remote set up for PCP guns that regulates down to 3000 psi from 4500 psi. They can also regulate down to whatever psi is desired. This means that if this does work, one could possibly regulate to specifically the psi desired, and get (hopefully) consistent shots until the main tank dropped below that psi.
Can you tell me if you think this could be made to work? Essentially, the fill station would remain hooked up and supplying air while the gun was in use.
I’ve also been looking at (alternatively) putting the Airforce Direct Flo valve on a HPA paintball tank (same threads). 22 ci tanks (same diameter as the stock 13 ci tank) seem to be hard to find now; but a larger tank might be used with the offset adaptor (which angles the tank down) available from Talon Tunes. Some of the larger capacity carbon HPA tanks are not much heavier than the small stock aluminum tank, if I’m reading the specs correctly.
I’m very interested in the Escape UL, other than in the limited shot count. I’d really appreciate your expert opinions on these or other methods of working around that. Personally, I’d love it if something like this would work, and would prefer it to their heavier guns with higher shot counts.
Your reviews on this blog have been very interesting and helpful. I really appreciate you making them available.
Thanks!
Ken
Ken,
People have been doing that for the past 20 years. In fact, that was one of the biggest complaints of Gary Barnes’ big bore guns — that if you wanted to shoot them off a bench they had to be tethered to a scuba tank because they use so much air.
When I was at AirForce a customer tethered hic Condor to a helium tank do he could shoot off a bench and get over 1,500 f.p.s. with .177 pellets. It did work, but it was a huge encumbrance!
So the answer is yes, you can tether almost any PCP to a scuba tank. You may have to machine a couple special fittings to do it, but when that is what you want to do, why let anything get in your way?
B.B.
Thank you very much for your prompt and encouraging reply! It’s great to have experienced guys willing to share their knowledge.
If I could trouble you further, I hope you won’t mind.
Could you point me to somebody who could help me with more specific questions (mainly, if I have the a female Schraeder fitting on the remote hose, would it interfere with valve/firing operation of the gun if I connect it to the male Schraeder fitting on the Spin Loc tank)? Maybe you know somebody who has done this, or knows whether it will work or not. Please feel free to email me if you prefer.
If it will work, I will have to figure out if it is too cumbersome a system for me to deal with. From looking at the modern paintball rigs (light weight carbon tanks in back packs), it looks like they’ve come a long way. Guys are running around with them…
One advantage of having a small 4500 psi tank (whether it works for a remote system as I hope or not) is that I would be able to get it filled at local paintball stores. There are no local scuba shops where I live to fill a scuba tank. If nothing else, I could use it as my main fill station.
I need to figure this out before I buy, because if it won’t work, I will probably buy it without the Spin Loc feature, and just change out tanks in the field.
Thanks again!
Ken
Ken,
The AirForce guns use a Foster fitting, not a Schraeder valve. Schraeders will not connect to the AirForce tanks.
Could you leave a 4500 psi tank connected to the inlet nipple of your rifle’s tank? Sure, but you couldn’t leave the valve on the tank open or the rifle tank would fill to 4500 psi and lock the firing valve. You would have to open and close it as needed.
B.B.
Thanks, Tom. Yes, it would have to be regulated.
Thanks for the clarification on the name of the fitting! I was calling it by the wrong name, and it caused some confusion on the phone this morning.
I talked to Tim at Talon Tunes, and Ray at Ninja Paintball. Both thought the tethered remote was feasible. The Foster fitting apparently has a one way valve, so the bigger tank would fill the smaller on demand.
The system, including 90 cubic inch tank, regulator (from 4500 psi down to 3000 psi or whatever you choose), fill adaptor (so you can bleed the line and disconnect before the tank is empty), and remote hose with fittings retails at this time for about $350 (or more if you want a longer hose custom made). The remote hose is about 30″ long.
So, it should work, but downside is expense and decreased mobility of gun position due to the tethered line.
Tim at Talon Tunes has the offset valve adaptor, which moves the tank down by an inch (making the gun fit more ergonomic), so a larger capacity but wider HPA paintball tank could be used with the Air Force direct flow valve. But again, I’d be looking at about $225 for the carbon fiber tank and regulator, $100 for the direct flow valve, and $165 for the offset valve adaptor. Looks like quite a bit of expense to save a few pounds on the gun…
Thanks again for all your help, and I hope you don’t mind my sharing what I found out in my research. Hopefully it will save somebody else some time and energy. Your reviews on these guns are full of very useful information, and have helped me quite a bit!
Ken
Ken,
From what you just said I can see that you understand this perfectly. That is how to do it. Yes, it does limit your mobility.
Remember in my testing I got the best accuracy at lower operating pressures. I will be revisiting those reports with a followup velocity test of the most accurate and useful pellets.
Tom
It’s been weeks of research, Tom; and generous guys like yourself have made it possible – otherwise I’d still be wandering/wondering…
JDS and Ninja both carry regulators you can put on your tanks, allowing you to regulate down from 3000 psi (or 4500 psi if you go the route I mentioned above) to whatever pressure you like.
Tom, it was your review and comments on the accuracy of the Escape UL and others that showed me the advantage of that. A guy can find the pressure his gun likes best, and invest in a regulator for about $100 or so. Then, all shots before the tank drops below that level will be at a consistent psi.
I’ll probably be getting such a regulator either way; but I’ll probably consult your tests and do my own before I buy the regulator, as they are not adjustable. So, once I purchase and test the gun, I’ll be deciding on the proper step down pressure for the regulator.
Thanks again very much for all the great info. Seems like there are a lot of generous people in this hobby! That includes my friend, Scott, who let me come out and shoot his .22 and .25 Condor a couple weeks ago.
Ken